2005 will be launched in Feb 2005

[Anonymous]

See this link for details:

http://www.mypda.com.cn/info/show_info.asp?infoid=1491[/url]

[Cyber-mate]

See this link for details:

http://www.mypda.com.cn/info/show_info.asp?infoid=1491

Appreciate the ++ search. One thing I have noticed is the inconsistency in the "Start button icon". Everyimage looked different!

I mean, this could be fake or even made up pics :roll:

Are we ready for another BGates newbie :roll:

[Mvmajorem]

You got that right Cyber mate.

Will the companies like FONO, Axiom, Comtel or Plug-ins void our warranty if we do decide to move to 2005 Mobile?

[daduddaman]

Every Pocket PC release since CE2.11 (except for 2003SE) has comeout in the Spring. Along with new devices. This time will be no different.

[Lior]

after the win mobile 2005 comes out - will it be posible to upgrade our devices or they (the phone makers) should fit the win 2005 (by software changes) for the device first?

(as you guessed it - im new and my first device is the mini :oops: )

[skagen]

Looks to me like that start button is still the size of a pea - which means if you are using your hand on the home screen, its almost impossible to hit that in the corner. And this suposed to be a serious, native PHONE OS? Wow.....

[Ineedtoys]

Looks to me like that start button is still the size of a pea - which means if you are using your hand on the home screen, its almost impossible to hit that in the corner. And this suposed to be a serious, native PHONE OS? Wow.....
You've obviously never used WM2003. It's the same size as current version. You can touch the text or logo to access it and it's perfectly usable.

I would be nice to be proved wrong, but I very much doubt this will be made available on current devices. Their product life is just too short. It also looks like the UI is designed to use extra programmable menu buttons at the bottom of the screen, as on MS Smartphones. Few PPC PE devices have enough hardware buttons to support this.

[skagen]

Wrong. I have an I-mate Jam Phone (WM 2003SE). As I said, it is egnonomically retarded to make the HEART of entry into the device a tiny button crammed in one corner and taking up like 1/50th of the screen space.

If you were trying to make it harder to touch - you couldn't enough said.

And that is the START button? Wow! I'd love to know what Microsoft spends all their millions of dollars on usability budget on. That placement & size of the start button would get you an "F" if you were a student in design school. Its THAT elementary.

Its not just the "Start" button on the whole, the entire Win 2003 PPC OS is just very poorly sized considering that is suppesed to be a phone OS. Look at the notifications. You have to hit a thin ass line if you plan on turning it off. Want to close a windows, its a tiny ass x squeezed in the corner or a screen? I mean, hello.....

The should have tested these things with thumbs as well as styluses. Elementary design principles. Very elementary.

But that is exactly what heppens when you take a blinkered mentality ("we are Microsoft make Windows software for PC's". We must have a "Start" button - and put everything in there.") into the design of a thumb-operated phone.

[frewys]

Wrong. I have an I-mate Jam Phone (WM 2003SE). As I said, it is egnonomically retarded to make the HEART of entry into the device a tiny button crammed in one corner and taking up like 1/50th of the screen space.

If you were trying to make it harder to touch - you couldn't enough said.

And that is the START button? Wow! I'd love to know what Microsoft spends all their millions of dollars on usability budget on. That placement & size of the start button would get you an "F" if you were a student in design school. Its THAT elementary.

Its not just the "Start" button on the whole, the entire Win 2003 PPC OS is just very poorly sized considering that is suppesed to be a phone OS. Look at the notifications. You have to hit a thin ass line if you plan on turning it off. Want to close a windows, its a tiny ass x squeezed in the corner or a screen? I mean, hello.....

The should have tested these things with thumbs as well as styluses. Elementary design principles. Very elementary.

But that is exactly what heppens when you take a blinkered mentality ("we are Microsoft make Windows software for PC's". We must have a "Start" button - and put everything in there.") into the design of a thumb-operated phone.

isn't that a matter of taste? i mean.. they COULD make the start button bigger but then maybe someone like I would say "hey its to big it takes up like ALL of the screen and i cant see my today screen" i for one have no problem using either the start button or the"x" button for closing using my thumb.
Maybe the best would be if one could maybe have like a stylus window (kinda like now) and a big button finger layout. just a thought.

[Loboman]

It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.

[skagen]

It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.

I dont know any indusrty analyst who does not agree that these devices are converging - which has clear implications for software and OS makers: phone interface gets used often and requires seamless finger usage. Especially on devices with no physical phone keyboard! No rocket science required there.

And once you start selling OS software tilted "Windows Mobile 2003 Se for Mobile Phone", you're on the hook to delver something that works appropriately as a mobile phone OS! There is no escaping that one.

Ditto when your OS is designed for devices such as the Moto MPX and the Jam and the Eten 500. These are devices clearly made for those who are phone-oriented and will carry the device in their pocket everywhere - as opposed to the XDA II buyer who is more or a PDA and phone is just tacked on. Its in the Microsoft business plan to attack the market for such phone-like devices to challenge the treo and Blackberry - so they've gotta deliver credible phone ergonomics too!

I'd understand the omissions in 2002, maybe even 2003. But to come out with 2005 (when convergence is patently obvious and they are pushing heavily to be a phone OS) and they are still missing the boat with "Windows for PC" as the bedrock of their ergonomics?

As I said, I'd love to know what their user experience research budget is going on. A bunch of first year designs school students would have picked up on the obvious - as you yourself agree: if its a phone OS, you must have an credible option to go stylus-less, espcially for those primary phone options. As it is we are still at the level where dialers and today screen add-ons are legitamate commercial software. The OS should have presented a legitimate soultion there. That would be live Windows Longhorm coming out and they have a 3rd rate browser and a 3rd rate search engine as default in the OS. That's just not on - it's your primary interface and the OS must offer something up to par there, otherwise you are forcing users into slow and memory-eating add-ons such as Mobi Dial.

[Anonymous]

It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
Errr.. please come back when you know what you are talking about. Smartphone Edition doesn't have on screen buttons - how can it when it doesn't have a touch screen. You *CAN* do everything with one hand. That's the whole point of the programmable menus at the bottom, one of which kicks off the Start menu.

[Anonymous]

It's not a phone OS, it's a PDA OS. I agree though, that the Smartphone Edition cound have an option to enlarge all buttons so that you'd be able to navigate with one hand.
Errr.. please come back when you know what you are talking about. Smartphone Edition doesn't have on screen buttons - how can it when it doesn't have a touch screen. You *CAN* do everything with one hand. That's the whole point of the programmable menus at the bottom, one of which kicks off the Start menu.
To make this clearer - all the menus on Smartphone Editions are linked to hard buttons on the phone. So the everything can be done one handed, and the size of icons doesn't matter jack sh*t. As for PE 2005 - that's why the new menus have appeared at the bottom - to give the benefits of Smartphone Editione on Phone Edition - so you don't have to touch the screen or dig out your stylus for common operations.
Why the obsession with the start logo, when tapping anywhere on the text will do? And why do you need to do this to get to the "phone" functions you keep banging on about? That's what the Green, Red, Contact and Calendar hardware buttons (and the Smartphone style "soft" keys) are for. What's difficult about that? If that's too complicated for you - maybe you should to go back to a Nokeeeyah!

[skagen]

I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible. Which is not the same thing as saying that its a phone and all you need is phone access.

If you think people buy a £400 PPC phone for calendar and contacts programs alone, then you dont know much about the market. The other programs the device runs need to be better accessible.

I couldn't care less if microsoft groupies are offended - it is a fact that Nokia has a better grips on the software ergonimics. If it makes you emotional, too bad. I'm more concerned with the fact that MS needs to think beyond the cliche and ergonimics of a Windows PC when they are designing a PHONE.

[Mikee4fun]

:D skagen, you are "gay" Go jackoff to your garbage Symbian OS which is buggier than bloody hell. :P

[Matterhorn]

And Mikee you're an As*Hol* :evil:

[skagen]

Its a phone, dude. If it hs got things wrong with it, that's just the facts. If I though Symbian phones was better, then I'd buy a Symbian phone - duh! The Jam is better hardware than what's available on Symbian, but actually OS is not as intutive as Symbian.

This Win Mobile for PPC phone OS has some major failings and omissions - which is the very reason the XDA Develpers exists: til fill the gaps. And BTW, , we are not here to be teenage PPC fan-boys.That's for the kids on Howard Forums. This website here is about realistic assessment of these devices.

[Anonymous]

I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible.
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen. Sheesh!

[Anonymous]

The Jam is better hardware than what's available on Symbian, but actually OS is not as intutive as Symbian.

Have you actually watched someone using a Symbian PDA/Phone combo? Yes, that's right. If you're not dialing a number, it's time to tap tappity tap with the stylus. The P800-910 series have LESS buttons, and so LESS direct access to applications, (not to mention, many 1000 less aplications) than devices using PPC PE!

[skagen]

I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible.
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen. Sheesh!

The hardware buttons are already allocated for things that people would use. So its silly to be telling people "you can remap your contacts button to dictionary". Ok then - so how am I gonna get the contacts quickly.

On the Tungsten E, for example hit the center button on the D pad and you can immediately start pagig through your applications. Try that on the Jam- you cant. That's lame.

[Mikee4fun]

Hah, I have never had any problems with any of my XDA II phones. I will say I did have problems with my XDA IIs which was and is the biggest a piece of crap known to mankind, so I sold it. The statement saying that XDA Developers is here to fill the gap for fixing pocket pc's I think is a rather incorrect statement. Because I look it at a site for hacking the pocket pc rather than fixing it, that is for the most part. ( Like installing different company's roms, etc) However I will say, the bluetooth stacks posts where for a fix which was fuc.... by widcom and not written by microsoft. :lol:

[Anonymous]

On the Tungsten E, for example hit the center button on the D pad and you can immediately start pagig through your applications. Try that on the Jam- you cant. That's lame.
Simple. Remap the contacts button, or one of the side buttons, to the Start Menu. Scroll through the apps with the D-Pad. Just like your precious Tungsten.

Ok then - so how am I gonna get the contacts quickly.
Simple. Press the Green button! Or are you too blinkered to notice that the Phone app is a front end to the Contacts database? It's also available on the top level of the Start menu. Or tap the icon in your favorite Today screen launcher. Or use Voice Commander. So many options, shame you're too blinkered (or thick) to see any of them.

[skagen]

On the Tungsten E, for example hit the center button on the D pad and you can immediately start pagig through your applications. Try that on the Jam- you cant. That's lame.
Simple. Remap the contacts button, or one of the side buttons, to the Start Menu. Scroll through the apps with the D-Pad. Just like your precious Tungsten..

I think youre the one who is blinkered. The button is mapped to contacts becuase contacts should be at hand. You should not be forced to remapping already needed needed buttons or convoluted tricks to get to the program home page.

These are things which should have been worked out in user interface testing.


Ok then - so how am I gonna get the contacts quickly.
Simple. Press the Green button! Or are you too blinkered to notice that the Phone app is a front end to the Contacts database? It's also available on the top level of the Start menu. Or tap the icon in your favorite Today screen launcher. Or use Voice Commander. So many options, shame you're too blinkered (or thick) to see any of them.

The Contact section PIM is suppsed to be more than a number lookup. It has notes and all kind of data there. The phone dialer is not gona give you that in any useful way, if at all.

You're the one who is blinkered. Not that one would expect anything useful from an anonymous MS fanboy....

[skagen]

On the Tungsten E, for example hit the center button on the D pad and you can immediately start pagig through your applications. Try that on the Jam- you cant. That's lame.
Simple. Remap the contacts button, or one of the side buttons, to the Start Menu. Scroll through the apps with the D-Pad. Just like your precious Tungsten..

I think youre the one who is blinkered. The button is mapped to contacts becuase contacts should be at hand. You should not be forced to remapping already needed needed buttons or convoluted tricks to get to the program home page.

These are things which should have been worked out in user interface testing.


Ok then - so how am I gonna get the contacts quickly.
Simple. Press the Green button! Or are you too blinkered to notice that the Phone app is a front end to the Contacts database? It's also available on the top level of the Start menu. Or tap the icon in your favorite Today screen launcher. Or use Voice Commander. So many options, shame you're too blinkered (or thick) to see any of them.

The Contact section PIM is suppsed to be more than a number lookup. It has notes and all kind of data there. The phone dialer is not gona give you that in any useful way, if at all.

You're the one who is blinkered. Not that one would expect anything useful from an anonymous MS fanboy....

[Anonymous]

The button is mapped to contacts because contacts should be at hand. You should not be forced to remapping already needed needed buttons or convoluted tricks to get to the program home page.

These are things which should have been worked out in user interface testing.
No one is forced to remap buttons to activate the Start menu. Most people manage perfectly fine by touching the screen with their finger. Only you seem to have a problem with that. All the same, you wanted instant start button access without touching the screen. I've shown you how simple it is to have what you require.

You rant against Windows Mobile in general, not just the Jam, but I see you're still completely ignoring the fact that devices like the XDAII, and up and coming WM2005 devices, have even more buttons to available make the device work just the way you want.

And as for the contacts not being at hand...

The Contact section PIM is supposed to be more than a number lookup. It has notes and all kind of data there...

You don't say...

...The phone dialer is not gona give you that in any useful way, if at all.

Now you are _really_ showing that you don't have a clue. Let's try something - Press the Green button. Find and highlight the contact you want using the dialler. Press Select.

Shock horror - It has notes and all kind of data there

Why's that then? Maybe because you are now in Outlook Contacts? (check the top of the screen). Even quicker than using the original Contacts button, because you didn't have to use the stylus to do the search.

You're the one who is blinkered. Not that one would expect anything useful from an anonymous MS fanboy....
Actually, I prefer the Palm OS UI, but current Palm models are sadly crippled by lack of memory and multitasking. But, unlike you, instead of crying "Mommy, it doesn't work!", I've taken time to find out how to tailor the OS, UI and hardware to my way of working (which is different for everyone).

Now go away, read the manual again, and if it's still too bewildering, give your Jam to someone who appreciates it for more than "It's a phone".

[skagen]

Now you are _really_ showing that you don't have a clue. Let's try something - Press the Green button. Find and highlight the contact you want using the dialler. Press Select.

Shock horror - It has notes and all kind of data there

Why's that then? Maybe because you are now in Outlook Contacts? (check the top of the screen). Even quicker than using the original Contacts button, because you didn't have to use the stylus to do the search.
Total innacuracy and lack of perspective. For example:
a) Its not faster than being in contacts
b) you cannot see address etc in that lookup
c) you're STILL talking about navigating via tiny buttons glued to the bottom of the screen - which on the jam you are basically having to hit with a nail to be accurate

Acres of screen space are wasted, critical info is not present and you are left pressing tiny corners of a screen. All of which underscores that basic ergonomics and user experience are totally ignored here. Again the Windows/PC-derived layout of the screen is exposed as being patently innapropriate in this class of device.

And thatis what you hail as a success? Only underscores your cluelessness Go get a life and stop ranting making excuses for an OS that was designed without proper thought.

[Anonymous]

I have a P900 and a Magician at my hands but since I have the magician I have never used the buggy P900 Symbian smartphone anymore.

The very robust synchronization (also BT works perfectly) and the nearly endless possibilities are combined in a really handy device - I don't want to miss it anymore ;)

PS: All the Palm users in my department are jealous as hell :D

[Anonymous]

Total innacuracy and lack of perspective. For example:
a) Its not faster than being in contacts

Yet again, you're talking out of your a*se. Here's proof that using the Contacts takes longer and is harder:-

Contacts lookup using the Phone screen:-
1. Press Green Button
2. Tap 3 search characters on phone keypad
3. Tap to highlight correct Contact.
4. Press Dpad centre button to view details.
5. Jam shows all information in Contacts Summary screen

Using the "Contacts" button:-
1. Press Contacts button
2. Retrieve stylus
3. Tap in Search window to enable input cursor.
4. Type 3 search characters on virtual keyboard.
5. Tap correct contact.
6. Jam shows all information in the Contacts Summary screen.
7. Put away stylus.

Q.E.D.

b) you cannot see address etc in that lookup
Either you're doing this completely wrong, or you're just blind. Using the Green button method above shows all the address and notes information that is held in Contacts - because I AM IN THE CONTACTS APPLICATION.

c) you're STILL talking about navigating via tiny buttons glued to the bottom of the screen - which on the jam you are basically having to hit with a nail to be accurate
You must be hearing voices in your head. WHERE HAVE I USED ANY OF THE ICONS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN?

critical info is not present and you are left pressing tiny corners of a screen.

Get this into your thick skull. My Jam is showing me all the critical information I need, including addresses and notes, because I'm viewing the Summary page in the Contacts application. I have not pressed any icons at the bottom or the corners of the screen to get there.

And that Only underscores your cluelessness !

[skagen]

Nope you're the clueless one. if that center button were to be mapped to anything - it should be mappd to the START button in the first place!

Second if that native dialer were any use, then everyone wouldn't be abandoning it and there wouldn't be dialer apps being sold by the bushel all over the place

This is is full of gaps and holes - which obviously you cannot get through you thick skull.

[Anonymous]

My answers have simply proved that every one of the "examples" you gave of WM's poor usability are based entirely on supposition, prejudice and lies. I can only conclude that because you cannot counter this, you are either incapable of understanding plain English or are unable to verify them in practice because you don't actually have a Jam of your own.

if that center button were to be mapped to anything - it should be mappd to the START button in the first place!
...which would be really convenient when Start popped up very time you wanted to Select something.

[/plonk]

[Paragon]

Ok, before someone launches a weapon of mass destruction and makes a mess of everything.......does everyone realize that to activate the start menu you can not only hit the icon, but the word "start" as well. This makes it very easy to activate the start menu. In fact as a test I just tried using the meaty pad of my thumb, the portion you would use to make a thumb print. It's pretty big and a very inaccurate way to touch small spot in a corner of a screen. In 25 tries I missed once. ;)

As well, don't forget there are tons of 3rd party apps that allow the user to put shortcuts right on the Today Screen for quick, single tap access. :)

Dave

[Anonymous]

Looks to me like that start button is still the size of a pea - which means if you are using your hand on the home screen, its almost impossible to hit that in the corner. And this suposed to be a serious, native PHONE OS? Wow.....
You've obviously never used WM2003. It's the same size as current version. You can touch the text or logo to access it and it's perfectly usable.

Quite right Paragon. Even Skagen's first example in his long list of complaints and misconceptions was completely wrong, as I pointed out at the start of this thread. Perhaps it's his brain that's the size of a pea :P

[Anonymous]

Second if that native dialer were any use, then everyone wouldn't be abandoning it and there wouldn't be dialer apps being sold by the bushel all over the place
Yet more nonsense from the skagen. Everyone? You do have a distorted view of the world, don't you?

1. Most of these apps pre-date the Jam and were originally intended for the likes of the XDA which didn't have IntelliPad or IntelliDial.

2. It's all about *choice* , a concept you're probably not familiar with. There are just as many replacement diallers and PIM apps available for the Treo as there are for the Jam. Does that mean the default Treo UI is crap? Hardly - it's consistently rated as the best smart phone UI out there.

Let's face it skagen, Windows Mobile is *sold* on the Windows look and feel. Most people get along with that quite happily. WM2005 will improve that even further by bringing over the benefits of Smartphone Edition to PPC PE. But it's not for everyone, which is why plenty of alternatives exist.

If you loathe MS and WM PPC PE so much, why on earth did you buy a Jam?

Still, let's end on a constructive note. Why not take a look at the Neonode? Sure, it's riddled with bugs, is crap as a phone, and has virtually no third party support, but it has a *Wonderful* UI.

[skagen]

Let's face it skagen, Windows Mobile is *sold* on the Windows look and feel. If you loathe MS and WM PPC PE so much, why on earth did you buy a Jam? .

N0 - its sold on syncing more the Windows look. If you had a clue, you'd know that. And if you describe closing a program - which actually doesn't close but eats up your RAM - as "Windows look and feel", more power to you in your fantasy world.

And this one: "why on earth did you buy a Jam?" Duh, you idiot, I didn't know how stupid the WM 2003 SE interface was until I actually had one for a while. If its supposed to be a PHONE, you'd expect the OS to be prperly designed for that. To describe a lack of a proper telephone and finger-oriencted interface on a phone OS, as "choice" is laughable. Brainless propaganda....

Go suck Bill Gates ass somemore or whatever you do for a living when you're not posting anonymous drivel on the internet.

[Anonymous]

Duh, you idiot, I didn't know how stupid the WM 2003 SE interface was until I actually had one for a while. If its supposed to be a PHONE, you'd expect the OS to be prperly designed for that
There you you go again, blaming everyone else but yourself for not doing the research and making the wrong buying decision. Seemingly everyone else but you realises the Jam isn't designed or sold just a PHONE. The clue is in the OS title for God's sake!

1. "Windows Mobile POCKET PC Phone Edition" for those who primarily want a POCKET PC PDA with added phone capability.

2. "Windows Mobile SMARTPHONE Edition" for those who primarily want a PHONE with added PDA capability.

[Anonymous]

How many of ou use the memo button? That is the one i have remapped to start, and it works like a charm. I use my compac with one hand for calling, looking up contacts and the agenda. Remap the memo button for start, problem solved. :D

[Looking Glass]

Hah, I have never had any problems with any of my XDA II phones. I will say I did have problems with my XDA IIs which was and is the biggest a piece of crap known to mankind, so I sold it. The statement saying that XDA Developers is here to fill the gap for fixing pocket pc's I think is a rather incorrect statement. Because I look it at a site for hacking the pocket pc rather than fixing it, that is for the most part. ( Like installing different company's roms, etc) However I will say, the bluetooth stacks posts where for a fix which was fuc.... by widcom and not written by microsoft. :lol:

That said, this is the ONE reason to be in this forum, to fill the GAP! (Capitals fully intentional)
It has taken one full year for me to get a barely functional BT HandsFree connection with my "convergent" 1000$ Qtek 2020 device. 100$ 3 year old phones made it without a glitch! And this has been done with the help of this forum, NO ONE ELSE (HTC, Qtek, etc) comes to help.

I've learned the hard way that there where such things as HandsFree and HeadSet "profiles". Does anyone hear of a SonyEricsson BT phone user that knows the hell about it? They JUST USE THEIR DEVICES! And they ALL work!

Blame to MS and HTC!

:evil: :evil: :evil:

[Anonymous]

Doulbe launcher @ freeware for god sake!

try to learn something. ppc are tools not toys...

www.clubpocketpc.gr
www.myphone.gr

[Ineedtoys]

Vito Buttonmapper has just been updated to work with the Jam.
You need v3.22 from http://vitotechnology.com/files/prerelease/

Works a treat, e.g.
Press+Hold Contacts button for Start Menu.
Press+Hold Calendar button for OK/Close.

Does the freeware do the same? I haven't had chance to d/l it yet.

[Ineedtoys]

Doulbe launcher @ freeware for god sake!

try to learn something. ppc are tools not toys...

www.clubpocketpc.gr
www.myphone.gr

The first is, well, all Greek to me :wink: , and the second one is a blank page?

Anyway, Double Launcher is at http://www.orthancsoftware.com/DLauncher.htm

Same price as Buttonmapper, but looks the more flexible of the two.

[skagen]

Duh, you idiot, I didn't know how stupid the WM 2003 SE interface was until I actually had one for a while. If its supposed to be a PHONE, you'd expect the OS to be prperly designed for that
There you you go again, blaming everyone else but yourself for not doing the research and making the wrong buying decision. Seemingly everyone else but you realises the Jam isn't designed or sold just a PHONE. The clue is in the OS title for God's sake!

1. "Windows Mobile POCKET PC Phone Edition" for those who primarily want a POCKET PC PDA with added phone capability.

2. "Windows Mobile SMARTPHONE Edition" for those who primarily want a PHONE with added PDA capability.

I have no idea what rock you crawled from under but these classification are null, void and outdated. These devices are coverging - which is why windows is getting rid of the crippled and pointless Smartphone OS.

Poeple want a device that works as they use it - its a phone. Otherwise HTC would have stuck with the huge size of the Blue Angel in the first place!

[arfster]

[1. "Windows Mobile POCKET PC Phone Edition" for those who primarily want a POCKET PC PDA with added phone capability.


The Magician has blurred the lines - I wanted a phone with some PDA functions, yet bought the MDA Compact. With its size there's no real downside, as smartphones are no smaller.

[Anonymous]

I have no idea what rock you crawled from under but these classification are null, void and outdated. These devices are coverging - which is why windows is getting rid of the crippled and pointless Smartphone OS.

Have you actually used Smartphone Edition? In fact it gives the very UI you so crave - it is 80% a phone, and everything is done by dedicated buttons and shortcuts, with no little icons or touch screen for your big thumbs to worry about. Actually it works *very* well as a phone - which is why PPC PE 2005 is incorporating some of its best features (e.g the two context sensitive menus linked to dedicated hardware buttons below the screen).

People want a device that works as they use it - its a phone. Otherwise HTC would have stuck with the huge size of the Blue Angel in the first place!
So the only reason for HTC (or any other manufacturer) to miniaturise a Pocket PC is to make it into a phone? Let's ask the horse's mouth, the official i-Mate JAM product description from http://www.imate.com/products.php?id=10 :-

Good things come in small packages. At last, a mini version of our world leading Pocket PCs.
The i-mate™ JAM is the essential lifestyle tool for work or play. It's very stylish, packed with features and completely customisable. The smooth curves of this mini Pocket PC cleverly hide it's massive functionality.
Designed for those who demand value without compromise on quality you effectively get 10 devices in 1! A digital camera, video recorder, PC, MP3 player, video player, gaming console, dictaphone, calculator, personal organiser, and... a mobile phone!

Now what kind of idiot would read that description and conclude that the last feature on the list was the only design brief for the JAM? Ska(It's a phone, dude)gen, that's who.

[skagen]

Its not ONLY a phone, but the part an idiot like you would miss is that unlike the lame toy camera it has, the PHONE aspect cannot be slapped together that easily.

And last I checked the device is selling in volume via mobile phone companies - who market it as a phone. So you you go and put 2+2 togther. Sime time in 2055, maybe you will figure out if this thing is a phone and quit making stupid excuses.



Have you actually used Smartphone Edition? In fact it gives the very UI you so crave - it is 80% a phone, and everything is done by dedicated buttons and shortcuts, with no little icons or touch screen for your big thumbs to worry about. Actually it works *very* well as a phone - which is why PPC PE 2005 is incorporating some of its best features (e.g the two context sensitive menus linked to dedicated hardware buttons below the screen).

If you want a phone+PDA I guess you want a crippled OS? This one is a stupid comment.

None of this still gets past the issue of having a touch screen with stupid things like "close: button the size of a pea in one corner either.

Just shut up and go home. You're an apologist - and not a very convicing one at that. Which is why you are posting anonyously.

[Anonymous]

Yo man,

Sorry to interject, but I quite agree with the og Guest guy, and slightly with skagen.

But this is how I see it, skagen if you wanted a phone, go buy a smartphone or a REAL phone. People who use ppc with phone features are normally quite savvy users. They like the ability to customize, ability to build, use, and define the devices they carry in the hands. THAT is what makes a ppc with phone features so wonderful, 'cause we dont have to carry 2 devices and just 1.

Likewise, the Guest dude is probably not 100% in line with words for the majority, but I doubt we're all idiot MS fanboys. We all know and acknowledge the problems of MS operating systems, from server to mobile classes. But hey, we tinker... and tinker some more all the while being in places like this forum to give what potential these devices have to blossom despite the downfalls of MS. Try doing this with a Symbian phone. Though with all the glitches and workarounds, we're happy with our personalized, button-remapped phone you call of a pda.

HINT!!!! Take this for thought everyone. Ever thought exactly who pda phones are marketed towards?? They are marketed toward busy professionals who need what??? They need pda capabilities in addition to phone capabilitys to lighted their load. Am I wrong? Besides the many gadget geeks out there, I dont see pda phones marketed on TV do you? Therefore, are they meant to be main stream phones?? NO. Since that is the case, Cingular might as well advertise it as a phone and NOT a pda phone. But why do carriers sell and carry them? They sell them because no one can use a pda phone's "phone" features without a contract.

Anyway, you can't complain about a pda phone not having a button, or not having a feature because it is programmable. I am sure almost ANY feature can be added as long as you can find the right program or map it.

I'm sorry for interjecting so long but reading these post reminds me of how clueless some people are. Skagen is like a the odd kid in class that buttons his shirt all the way up in summer only to be laughed at. When a lil girl asks him why he does that, he'd probably say you wouldn't have a button if it wasn't meant to be used. But then she'd laugh and laugh some more after running away. Guest dude no.1 is like the bystander who can't stand the incredible duality of idiocy mixed with inquizitiveness we have in this world.

Sorry skagen to be the focus, but the other users tried to indirectly agree with Guest dude no.1. I have only brought it to light since you are apparently quite unhappy with your unresearched purchase.

HINT No2. Spend, build, program, remap buttons or do what you need to do in order to get your Jam the way you want it. THAT is the true power that crappy ms has bestowed on these devices. You unknowingly agreed to this simple fact the moment you bought it. So don't complain. If you bought a dog and wonder why it pees in your shoes, I wouldn't know what to say. But I bet you think it should automatically know to pee on your lawn since your too lazy to fertilize it. But maybe thats what your mouth is for since it has the ability to take in liquids???

Anyway, sorry for rant, but I just can't stand reading this thread altough it is entertaining.

- Peace

PS. Why the anonymity? I didn't feel like it. :)

[Anonymous]

Guest2 - wise words, which sum up the thread pretty accurately. Not that skagen will agree, I'm sure. Myself and others have shown that every example skagen has quoted of the terrible shortcomings of his Jam (e.g. can't easily launch Start, can't get to address information though the phone app) is without foundation. We have given him step by step instructions on how to use and customise the Jam to his needs, and where to get utilities to make things even easier. He hasn't listened to a word and has just responded with abuse. Some people don't deserve help.

[skagen]

You're writing ghost replies to yourself, now. Very nice.

At the end of the day you have no point. A device whose PRIMARY market is to be sold under heavy subsidy by phone companies cannot be considerd properly done if it isn't dealing well with obvious phone ergonomics. So WM 2003SE fails on that regard.

And as I said re-mapping of buttons is still - since it deprives you of the ability to use the orginal funtion of that button if you need it. So the SCREEN and navigtion buttons need to be properly designed.

At the end of the day, you fail to see that. Which is why you are posting anonymously - and at this point replying to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Uh, dude....


Just so you know, my words are not ghost words. It just so happens that I'm in medical school and I don't have the time to register. Or do I need to??? I don't know. Need I point out differing writing styles???

Anyway, I have a saying... in my language... "No ngu thi cho no ngu." (vietnamese.) Translates to... roughly that is... "just let stupid people be, its ok."

:shock:

[Anonymous]

And as I said re-mapping of buttons is still - since it deprives you of the ability to use the orginal funtion of that button if you need it.

Yet more drivel. If you actually took time to read some of the suggestions you've been given on here instead of spouting off, you'll have noted that the whole point of utilities like ButtonMapper and Double Launcher is to RETAIN the original function of the buttons, and add extra functionality by the use of Press+Hold etc. And that even without those utilities, there are alternative ways acheiving the same function which are just as easy (such as viewing Contacts via the Phone app).

The whole ethos of xda-developers is to help one another get the best out of WM PPC PE devices.

I have shown that all the issues you have with your Jam are misconceived and can be overcome. More importantly, I (and other contributors to the thread) have offerred you specific solutions to all of the usability problems you are having with MS, Windows, PPC PE and the Jam.

All you have done (and still do) is to cry and moan about how poorly designed WM and the Jam are and how difficult you find them to use. If you refuse to listen, or even try out any of the suggestions, fine. Just stop wasting our time, sell your Jam and go find something else that suits you better.

Best do it soon though, as your latest delusion that anyone who disagrees with you must be me, or a ghost of me, suggests your mental health is suffering. I suppose Microsoft will get the blame for that, too.

[skagen]

Keep chatting with yourself.....

[Fugs]

You complain that the MS OS is crippled, yet people show you alternatives to get around that.

You complain that a converged device should be a phone, so people tell you to go buy a phone.

Dude, if you want a mobile phone, go get a mobile phone!

[Anonymous]

After all the advise you've been given, you still want something that is perfect for you right out of the box. Let me enlighten you buddy (coz it seems that everyone else knows this), the whole frickin world doesn't revolve around you and that no manufacturer of any type (pocket pc, mobile phone, toilet seat, umbrella maker) is going to make a "skagen perfect device" just to fit YOUR silly ass!

You skagen, by far, is the biggest LOSER i've come across on this forum.

[Alexkass]

Doulbe launcher @ freeware for god sake!

try to learn something. ppc are tools not toys...

www.clubpocketpc.gr
www.myphone.gr

The first is, well, all Greek to me :wink: , and the second one is a blank page?

Anyway, Double Launcher is at http://www.orthancsoftware.com/DLauncher.htm

Same price as Buttonmapper, but looks the more flexible of the two.

yes. i use this app with eve y ppc i have or try. <only with e800 it didn't work 100%>

this is a must have progy 4 ppc pe that have only 4 re-mappable hardware buttons. ;)

[skagen]

After all the advise you've been given, you still want something that is perfect for you right out of the box.
Perfect for me? No the device should work with simple basic principles and tools that have been establisehd over years of PDA and phone development.

The size of the icons on that screen is a major red flag, for anyone purporting to be selling a phone OS, let alone everything else I have listed.

If you dont like it, go suck on a lemon. The facts are the facts.

[dangel]

I'm no ghost either - but i don't agree with skagen..

One very happy XDA 2 Pocket PC owner :) Oh, and yes i did take the time to customize my device (many thanks to this forum) and find it no hassle at all to use! TBH atm the way i like to 'dial' is to use fonix voicedial - it's the ultimate in hands free!

[Anonymous]

Perfect for me? No the device should work with simple basic principles and tools that have been establisehd over years of PDA and phone development.

The size of the icons on that screen is a major red flag, for anyone purporting to be selling a phone OS, let alone everything else I have listed.

If you dont like it, go suck on a lemon. The facts are the facts.

If YOU don't like it, maybe YOU should go suck on a lemon. It seems like you want a pda/phone with a 6inch screen and icons the size of your thumb. But even that would look stupid and would seriously cripple the PDA side of things. Basic principles... if you have such large icons how are you suppossed to fit other things on the screen of a PDA? Basic principles, shrink down your desktop screen to 2.5" and see how big your icons will be. Basic principle, use your stylus, that's what it is there for...just like your mouse. It's a phone/pda. Not just a phone, not just a pda but both... how can you not see that? To have both you have to compromise on some functionalities of the other. BASIC PRINCIPLE.

[skagen]

Last I checked, even the most basic Nokia managed to put sizeable icons on the tiny 128 x 128 screen I had on my Nokia 6100 ages ago. So why can't decent thought be given to critical icons on a touchscreen phone?

As for 6" screens, dicsuss that with the dude above who bough the XDA II brick. I bought a Jam becuase its in the phone class and its mareted that way. I expect decent phone and finger ergnomics in the OS. You dont like it, like I said: your problem.

BTW, just a small thing to show you how little thought has gone into MS Windows SE: go to the programs section which has the programs in rows of 3. Start on any prorgam icon and try navigating direclty to the program icon directly below. Can you? Nope. It slides you though the entire list to get there. So what the hell is the point of a 4-way D-pad? Decoration?

Simple things like this only underline the lack of thought here:
- the D-pad being utilzed poorly in this interface. To not even have the D-pad center link to the a start menu when you are at the today screen is just a damn waste
- No battery or memory meter on the home screen? Wait a minute - no batetry meter built in, on a device that is designed to be always on, has a life of 1-2 days max AND will lose your data if the battery runs out? Wow!
-Or the fact that when you "close" a program - IT DOESN'T CLOSE!!!
- No profiles? Hell, every $2 Nokia has customizable profiles built in!


And then everyone and their cousin goes out if forced to write hacks for this. Which you then claim as proof that MS Windows has a lot freeware and programs "choices". Sure it does - to fix the gaping holes MS shouldn't have left in the first place!

What next, will you advocate that companies build cars with no windscreen, to give the car buyer a "choice". How stupid.

Spare me the drivel. This OS was designed by a bunch of bozos. You're probably one of them and that's why your here anonymouslyranting and raving.

[Cyber-mate]

We know darn sure that NEVER microsoft will ever fill the gaps :evil: They were created that way :wink:

After all guys, it is the dilemma of "Desires vs Reality". It is life that you never get anything right nor perfect. You customize it or in this case PERSONALIZE it the way you want it. I know for fact that seldom you find two ppl with one (same) thinking. That's why never those toys -sorry tools- will have the shape, look, functionality or stuff loaded with that fits every liking! Never it will appeal to all! There will always be a space left for 3rd Party to develope. Otherwise MS will then pirate the market even on the tiniest icon thing :!:

I say, even for another 50 yrs, never we shall find and we shall find never a device that's so perfect that looks, works and functions so well it could even work for you :wink:

Guys, the PPC is a PPC. It was built to fit a pocket and that how it supposed to be -xcept for the HP63xx ones. To me I think for those guys to think hard they should come out of the POCKET not the box :P

[skagen]

Perfect for me? No the device should work with simple basic principles and tools that have been establisehd over years of PDA and phone development.

The size of the icons on that screen is a major red flag, for anyone purporting to be selling a phone OS, let alone everything else I have listed.

If you dont like it, go suck on a lemon. The facts are the facts.

If YOU don't like it, maybe YOU should go suck on a lemon. It seems like you want a pda/phone with a 6inch screen and icons the size of your thumb. But even that would look stupid and would seriously cripple the PDA side of things. Basic principles... if you have such large icons how are you suppossed to fit other things on the screen of a PDA? Basic principles, shrink down your desktop screen to 2.5" and see how big your icons will be. Basic principle, use your stylus, that's what it is there for...just like your mouse. It's a phone/pda. Not just a phone, not just a pda but both... how can you not see that? To have both you have to compromise on some functionalities of the other. BASIC PRINCIPLE.

I'm not the only one who thinks that several portions of this purported Mobile Phone OS were mailed in from a pub on Friday night:

From a review of the HTC Magician:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/08/review_htc_magician/page2.html
"Even in its Second Edition, Windows Mobile 2003 doesn't work well one-handed. Too often I needed to pull out the stylus to close a window, activate a menu item or - crucially - write a quick text message, where before I'd just use my thumb."

"But it's still a crime that Windows Mobile 2003 still doesn't have a battery state indicator on the Today screen. Even for PDAs, let alone phones, you shouldn't have to visit the Settings to find out if your device is about to die."

[dangel]

Rating - 90% :roll:

[Anonymous]

I'm not the only one who thinks that several portions of this OS were mailed in from a pub:

From a review of the HTC Magician:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/08/review_htc_magician/page2.html
"Even in its Second Edition, Windows Mobile 2003 doesn't work well one-handed. Too often I needed to pull out the stylus to close a window, activate a menu item or - crucially - write a quick text message, where before I'd just use my thumb."

"But it's still a crime that Windows Mobile 2003 still doesn't have a battery state indicator on the Today screen. Even for PDAs, let alone phones, you shouldn't have to visit the Settings to find out if your device is about to die."

Guess there's more than one stupid person out there..... have you not been reading man? Pocket PC's were never meant to be worked one handed...even the phone functionality of the phone edition. I bet if it isn't the size of the icon you're whinging about it'd be that the screen should have the same tactile feedback as a mobile phone key pad.

Here it is again..... POCKET PC PE IS NOT A PHONE! It is a pocket pc with a phone. If you want so much a phone that feels, smells, tastes like a phone, then maybe you should go get a phone, not a pocket pc phone edition?

But yes, i must admit, MS isn't the perfect company out there and yes they did leave out some basics like the battery indicator. Big woop. If the missing battery idicator is what makes it not worth the money you paid, go and buy "real" phone.

Bottom line is, the mini is a great device, OS and all. It has it's short comings but it's not like it's the end of the world or anything. If you don't like it go get a real phone.... coz it sounds like that's what you're really after.

Just curious but is the Mini your first pocket pc device?

[skagen]

Here it is again..... POCKET PC PE IS NOT A PHONE! It is a pocket pc with a phone. If you want so much a phone that feels, smells, tastes like a phone, then maybe you should go get a phone, not a pocket pc phone edition?

Oh, really? Why does Microsoft's business plan include a major push to dominate phone OS market then? With devices sales subsidized by mobile phone companies? Dont talk about things you clearly dont know about.

When an OS is designed for devices such as the JAM, which explicitlycompromise on PDA functionality (screen size/wi-fi, memory), in order to enter the mobile phone size and price market, your drivel is exposed.

People who wanted a PDA brick with a phone tag on would be in the Wallaby or Blu Angel market. The Jam exists in order to capture into the market of of phone buyers who want PDA capability tagged on.

You cant wander off into another country and pretend that you're at home simply just because you didn't change your clothes! This is not kansas anymore. The phone market has phone expectations. You dont come to the game with sume kluged up OS. Its not gonna work.




But yes, i must admit, MS isn't the perfect company out there and yes they did leave out some basics like the battery indicator. Big woop. If the missing battery idicator is what makes it not worth the money you paid, go and buy "real" phone.
?

Oh, NOW you "admit" this thing was designed by the company's dunce team? You're probably one of them, as best I can tell. Up till now you claimed these devices had NO gaps whatsoever.

What is this some kinda atempted Jedi mind trick? You though that that if you pretended the OS is perfect, everyone will follow you? Fool - all the people here busy trawling the internet searching for the most basic things as as battery meter, are not gonna buy your bull.

Nobody buying Nokia or Samsumg or Ericsson phone is having to trawl obscure mesage baords to be able to know when their battery will die! Next 12 months when their replacemen cycle comes up, guess what happens?

In this market, you dont step up to the plate properly and you're toast. This is NOT like the PC monopoly business.

[Anonymous]

OK then, if you are to believed and MS has made such a mess of it, what is the competition like?

Priced to enter the Mobile Phone Only market? Get real, this thing costs as much as the Sony P910.

Lousy UI? Show me a P910 user who doesn't have to use the stylus more than on the Jam.

Subsidised by Mobile Phone companies who push it purely as a phone? Rubbish. They sell it because the revenue they hope to get from a typical "Mobile Professional" user of a wireless Pocket PC - consistently high GPRS usage from synching his Office mail, as well as high daytime call usage.

What's wrong with third party apps and enhancements? Why shouldn't it be up to the user to customise the product to his own needs? Isn't that the beauty of having an open platform? I bet your Symbian user would give his eye's teeth to have such a choice.

Not that anyone claims the Jam is perfect, far from it. The Treo, for instance, is second to none in one handed usability and navigation. Shame they've an outdated single tasking OS and screwed up memory.

Everyone, apart from skagen, knows what they are getting when they buy a Windows Mobile device. The UI is designed to be make Windows users feel at home. Most people are prepared to work with that, in the full knowledge that the extensive third developer support means that virtually anything they want to do, someone will have written a program to do it. Skagen seems to suggest that this counts *against* the OS - just because he isn't prepared to get of his ass and use it.

Then again, this _is_ the guy that claims that Windows Mobile devices are not sold on their Windows look and feel :?

So I challenge you again - show us any other GPRS/GSM enabled, full capability PDA that matches the features of the Jam? If it's so crap, there must be hundreds of them out there!

[skagen]

What's wrong with third party apps and enhancements? Why shouldn't it be up to the user to customise the product to his own needs? Isn't that the beauty of having an open platform? I bet your Symbian user would give his eye's teeth to have such a choice.
!
This here above is the kind of Microsoft propaganda which exposes you as a charlatan.

A lack of battery meter or memory meter is not "customizing". Who are you kidding? Its an egregious omission. A lack of profile switchcing tool is also a very basic concept.

If you want to talk about weather plug insor whatever, by all means 3rd party software is fine. But basic tools are totally missed here. Even the cheapest $10 phone has a battery meter for chrissakes!

And this is a phone - period. Last I checked, there are sellers peddlng the JAM here in the UK for 20 bucks or even less on a 100 min per month T-mobile contract.
http://www.scancom.co.uk/product.php/84/1/
The target is kids, 20's something year olds. 40-50 year old business users do not go for 100 min/ month contracts - at least not here in the UK. All of these buyers are picking up a phone - and most likely will never go back to a PPC phone after a few months with this thing!

If you have evidence of the P910 being sold at such prices, post it here. You wont - because you cant! Instead you'll diverge to another propaganda rant.

But dont insult people's intelligence by pretending that this OS has not abdicated responsiility in many areas. Not everyone is as stupid as you.o

[Fugs]

And how many resellers are selling/marketing it as a PDA?

Dude, you seem to think it is a phone just because some (maybe majority maybe not majority, I dunno) are marketing the Jam as a phone. If I marketed an ashtray as a living room ornament, does that make it a living room ornament? No. It is first and foremost an ashtray. Sorry for the lame example but I hope you see what i'm trying to get at.

Anyway, if you don't like it just move on. As I always say in situations like this... build a bridge... and get over it. Unless of course you've made it your life's ambition and purpose to expose MS for all it's iniquities? If you don't like what they did, maybe a palm device would suit you better? And if a converged device doesn't tickle your fancy, maybe a separate phone and pda. Or you could always go back to a phone and notebook/diary.

Whatever you choose I hope you'll be happy with it.

[Anonymous]

Skagen, dont bother arguing with the medieval brainers.. they just dont understand power users or technology.. they're just the bottom half of the population IQ.

I agree with you, I want a PDA and Phone integrated, with truely optimised ergonomics. The hardware are good enough for the tasks needed.. but the Standard PPC2003 SE just has not delivered.

Exactly as what theregister.co.uk said (if you havn't read, read).. Its 2005 for god's sake.. User Interface and ergonomics are the most important designs, they as the direct contacts to the users.. and the worlds largest software company can't even deliver.. can't they just be a little more creative by giving more options on the interface, eg. for users that want phone based ergonomic interfce and the PDA based ergonomics interface.. or maybe automatically switch when certain buttons are pressed.. ??

for oh my god.. Bill gates should sack all the PPC2003 team!!!

[Anonymous]

And this is a phone - period.
We can argue this until the cows come home. I know English is not your first language, but by saying that "this is a phone - period." you are by definition stating that Jam Pocket PC is a phone and nothing else. That is plainly ludicrous as everyone else can see apart from you!


Last I checked, there are sellers peddlng the JAM here in the UK for 20 bucks or even less on a 100 min per month T-mobile contract.
http://www.scancom.co.uk/product.php/84/1/


Check your dictionary again. That's one seller, singular, not sellers, plural. All other retailers have the Jam at £350-400. T-Mobile have it at £130 + rental for low usage contracts. Chances are Scancom are passing on some of their commision to get the price so low, and relying on having a huge turnover instead. Which no doubt they're getting giving the publicity they've had on forums like this.

The target is kids, 20's something year olds.
Again, you show how detached you are from the real world. Box shifters like Scancom don't "target" anybody - all they are interested in is being the cheapest and using that to shifting as many units as possible. They don't give damn who they're selling to or if it's right for them. Why should they? Leave that to the high street shop advisors with their big overhead. Mainstream retailers who research their market and pitch their prices at the maximum it can stand, and sell at least £100 more.[/quote]

40-50 year old business users do not go for 100 min/ month contracts
Planet Skagen again. You must work in a strange place. Where on earth is the average IT-aware, gadget-seeking "mobile professional" aged 40-50?

All of these buyers are picking up a phone
Quite right too. They've an eye for a bargain. The very next thing they do is unlock the MDA for £15 and stick in their corporate SIM. Check any of the threads if you don't believe me - the most common question after "how much is it" is "how do I unlock it".

and most likely will never go back to a PPC phone after a few months with this thing!
Good thing too. No business in it's right mind wants to keep customers who are incapable of reading a product description and insist on buying something totally unsuitable for their needs. Or constantly claim that a product called a Pocket PC "is a phone - period.".

If you have evidence of the P910 being sold at such prices, post it here. You wont - because you cant!
For once you are right. But only because it is well known that Sony keep a *very* tight control on their pricing - and will swiftly stop supplying, or invoke stringent clawback penalties, on any dealer who tries to sell their products too cheaply.

Not everyone is as stupid as you.o I dont doubt it. But in this thread there is plenty of evidence that someone is far worse :P

[Anonymous]

Skagen is way ahead of you damb arses..

you remember 15 years ago when motorola came out with the massive brick phone?

if Skagen had complained to motorola then that their contacts were totally crap, would you have told him

"if you want a contact book then go buy a contact book?"

i guess not... think ahead people..

i can argue so muc hmore but i dont want to waste my time educating some of you who are just close minded..

[Anonymous]

A lack of battery meter or memory meter is not "customizing". Who are you kidding? Its an egregious omission
Is *anything* this guy says based on fact? Both are available as standard in the control panel. Just where a Windows user would expect to find them. And far more comprehensive than anything on a Nokia.
Look and Feel - geddit?
The 3rd party utilities just let you display that where you want, in the format you want - as a small title bar icon, a row of dots across the screen, or a full blown bar graph on the Today screen. MS provide the tools - you decide how to use them.
Choice - geddit?

I guess he never will. He probably only eats at restaurants with laminated menus. "Set Meal for One again Sir?"

[Anonymous]

I agree with you, I want a PDA and Phone integrated, with truely optimised ergonomics.
Simple than, go buy something else! Some of us prefer to tailor those ergonomics to the individual way and taste of how *we* work - not somebody elses idea of what that should be.

The ironic thing is, whatever you say, (and nobody has said WM is perfect), it's still the only OS that allows you total freedom to do just that.

[Anonymous]

Simple than, go buy something else!
here we go again..

Some of us prefer to tailor those ergonomics to the individual way and taste of how *we* work - not somebody elses idea of what that should be.

LOL.. are you writing you own code? No... designing your own buttons and ergonomics? No.. then why did you just contradict yourself?

Why reinvent the wheel? because the world's largest software company can't do the job properly!

we just need a good standard for all this mess.. WM is not and its MS's fault because they are CRAP!

[Anonymous]

Some of us prefer to tailor those ergonomics to the individual way and taste of how *we* work - not somebody elses idea of what that should be.

Some? approxiamtely how many %?
if WM is really crap then maybe 90%
which is probably is...



The ironic thing is, whatever you say, (and nobody has said WM is perfect), it's still the only OS that allows you total freedom to do just that.
trust me you'll need the freedom!.. because its totally crap in standard form. :lol:

Now, why didn't symbian need this freedom as much?
tick tock tick tock.. because it has been design with some thought.. so they dont rely on third party software as much..

:wink:

[Anonymous]

Write my own code? No neeed to. Obviously you can't read either.

"Most people are prepared to work with that, in the full knowledge that the extensive third developer support means that virtually anything they want to do, someone will have written a program to do it."

Despite what you say, not everybody wants to do things your way, or have there UI predetermined in ROM.
Some of us like the freedom to choose for ourselves, and the wherewithall to install a CAB file.

[arfster]

Priced to enter the Mobile Phone Only market? Get real, this thing costs as much as the Sony P910.

Not quite - the P910 is still about 20% more expensive without a contract, and the Magician is a brand new device. Give it a few months and the price difference will be fairly wide.

What's wrong with third party apps and enhancements? Why shouldn't it be up to the user to customise the product to his own needs?


Generally I'd agree. Windows Mobile certainly has several silly flaws: the close icons thing, the lack of a battery indicator, the UI is imperfect in a few other fairly obvious ways. However, Battery Pack Pro solves all the problems, and in a way that suits me.

Basically, I look at the Magician like this: it's phone sized, but with the additional capability to access the internet, carry a few hundred mp3s, a dictionary, a thesaurus, a guitar tuner, a dictaphone, spanish and french dictionaries, street maps of several cities, etc etc etc. Unless you happen to make enormous numbers of calls or need to text on the move, the small flaws in one-handed operation are not going to be a problem - certainly not enough to overcome the benefits of having all the above with you in one device.

[Anonymous]

tailor those ergonomics to the individual way and taste of how *we* work - not somebody elses idea of what that should be

What I was implying was that if you wanted to individualise and not somebody else's idea blah blah.. you 'll need to design you own stuff
(i mean why buy third party? they are somebody else's idea too)
Write my own code? No neeed to. Obviously you can't read either.

"Most people are prepared to work with that, in the full knowledge that the extensive third developer support means that virtually anything they want to do, someone will have written a program to do it."

Despite what you say, not everybody wants to do things your way, or have there UI predetermined in ROM.
Some of us like the freedom to choose for ourselves, and the wherewithall to install a CAB file.

OK OK enough enough.. you win.. WM is the best..
(but why can't they just...... oh bugger it)

[Anonymous]

OK OK enough enough.. you win.. WM is the best..
(but why can't they just...... oh bugger it)
No one here has shown one example of anything else that comes close - and as I said, if it's that crap, there must be *something* out there. No? Well that can only mean that, in the technical sense of the word, it *is* the best. Love it or loathe it, it's all we've got.

But, as I have shown here many times, all the shortcomings that it's critics claim make it unusable, can be overcome with the use of small add-ons, many of which are free. So the final solution is something which is *very* usable and is tailored to one's own needs and tastes.

Of course, if Palm had got their proverbial finger out, and given us a Treo with Cobalt and some decent memory, we would in a completely different ball game.

[Anonymous]

As an owner of the SE P900 'Guest' hit the nail on the head for me. It's the best we've got, for the moment.

Pros:

- Size, a PDA and Phone with 240*320 screen but without the bulk of the XDA II. That's the compromise. We want as much as they can cram into this small sized PDA.
- Lots of apps. Developers out there are helping people extend till their hearts are content - but also fixing the bugs. To do anything useful (even to save a phone number to the contacts!) you had to open the flip on the P900 and then the screen icons were TINY. Out came the stylus. The Treo is probably better in this respect but it's CHUNKY.
- SD IO slot. Compared to MemStick it's the bees knees. But yes Palm and Nokia have also got this plus point. (Except that Nokia have started pis***ing people off with their RS dual voltage malarky, and the card's under the battery in some phones!)
- Stylus when I want to use it (sometimes when I don't). Better than S60 (no stylus, everything is T9). Better than UIQ (have to use the stylus to save a phone number).

Cons:

- Cramped layout. In my personal opinion this is not the fault of MS. The OS was made for the XDA size. HTC have squashed it into a 2.5" screen FOR US. That said, it's better than the UIQ tabs and even the SE Desktop app (for UIQ P910) has a couple of REALLY small buttons.
- They should've allowed the selection button to open the Start menu! If you scroll to the top the selection bar / highlight 'disappears' into the Start bar / status bar. If the middle button could open the Start menu from there I'd be happier. In some ways this could be a simple keylock idea but I use the power button as my keylock. Originally I mapped the contacts button to the Start button, but now I've learnt to use my nail (after I got the screen protector).
- Battery meter! This is a glaringly obvious mistake by MS.

There's much more we could say, but overall... it's the best PDA/phone combo, for me, at the moment.

[Anonymous]

I said the DEVICE is primarily phone-style one. Therefore the primary mode of use is fingers not stylus. - This means that various programs (which are buried in the start menu) need to be more accessible.
You just don't get it do you? They ARE accessible without using the stylus using the fully configurable HARDWARE BUTTONS, D-PAD navigation, on some models JOG DIALS and START and CLOSE BUTTONS, and with 2005, the SMART BUTTONS linked to the context sensitive menus at the bottom of the screen.
To get back on topic ... You can see from these pictures of the HTC Universal that, as predicted, it has Smartphone style context sensitive menu buttons, as well as dedicated Start and OK buttons, ready for WM2005. No doubt that still won't be good enough for some people :)
http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3584.html