I have contacted BBC Watchdog about XDAIIi

[seanrkelly]

I have contacted BBC Watchdog (for those outside of UK - a consumer affairs watchdog that puts companies on the spot for mis-sold products) about the Blackberry update promised from O2 and how that ad for blackberry support has been removed with customer services saying there are no plans (despite what other people on this forum have said many times in the past) I would urge all other XDA IIs/i owners to do the same, if Watchdog get many of the same complaints - they will action it. We have to put O2 on the spot, enough is enough and it's time to bite back. This is what I sent:

I purchased an XDA IIi in February this year because O2 advertising said that a future rom update would allow me to pick up Blackberry emails. Since then and after many phone calls to their customers service departments, the new son the blackberry update has been withdrawn and customer services at O2 say there is no plans to release an update. There are many complaints like this on an XDA site run by enthusiasts but it seems O2 have turned their back on us. This model cost me a lot of money and was top of their range all year.

[mcse17]

Hi,

GOTO http://www.my-xda.com/xda2s_what.html and under 'Email & personal organiser' they are still advertising support for blackberry early 2005. Take a screen shot and email it to wathdog..!

[Southern_Man]

I have contacted BBC Watchdog (for those outside of UK - a consumer affairs watchdog that puts companies on the spot for mis-sold products) about the Blackberry update promised from O2 and how that ad for blackberry support has been removed with customer services saying there are no plans (despite what other people on this forum have said many times in the past) I would urge all other XDA IIs/i owners to do the same, if Watchdog get many of the same complaints - they will action it. We have to put O2 on the spot, enough is enough and it's time to bite back. This is what I sent:

I purchased an XDA IIi in February this year because O2 advertising said that a future rom update would allow me to pick up Blackberry emails. Since then and after many phone calls to their customers service departments, the new son the blackberry update has been withdrawn and customer services at O2 say there is no plans to release an update. There are many complaints like this on an XDA site run by enthusiasts but it seems O2 have turned their back on us. This model cost me a lot of money and was top of their range all year.

O2 are launching the new ROM next week, for S and I. Blackberry Connect is on it, and it works fine now - but it didn't at the start of the year.

Twit.

[DAz999]

Good idea. I have now contacted Watchdog about 02s' customer support regarding the WM2005 on the XDA IIi, please see the message I sent them below. I would suggest that any body else interested in the WM2005 upgrade for the Alpine, send a message to BBC Watchdog, I think this method would be more persuasive on 02 than the petition, although still useful.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/index.shtml


Hi,

I am just contacting you regarding the appalling customer service from 02, the mobile phone provider.
They have been contacted by many many people about why they have sold their latest PDA/Phone the XDA IIi(Generic name 'HTC Alpine'), with all the latest processor hardware etc, but only installed the previous release of 'Windows Mobile 2003SE and not the current Microsoft Operating System 'Windows Mobile 2005'. Even though other manufacturers are offering backwood upgrades, in many cases 02 refuse to even contact you if you have made a email enquiry or some get a standard answer ie. "The hardware is not compatible", which of course is rubbish as Microsoft designed a test install of WM2005 for their staff on the previous 02 release the XDA II (Generic name 'Hymalaya). As is usual with the majority of customer helpdesks, they are only mouthpieces and have no way of offering any real or useful information to assist their customers in any meaningful way, although I'm sure the management mouthpieces would disagree!

These PDA/Phones cost alot of money and we as customers should not be ripped off by 02, they must do better, now please.

If you need some more for information go to this site http://forum.xda-developers.com/index.php , you will find plenty more people who are not happy. As you can see you'll get better support from this user run site than from the PDA companies!

[AlanJC]

Watchdog will not get involved with a WM2005 issue, O2 never promised it, never mentioned compatibility with future OS', and the main point being, don't even make the XDA devices, HTC do.

[seanrkelly]

Alan I am an optimist and very much hope that if we complain enough, we can at least get some useful commincation out of O2 for a can. The XDA IIi has better hardware than many current WM5 devices. There's no reason why it can't run it so if we apply enough pressure, someone may listen.

This is why other manufacturers like Dell and HP remain an attractive and popular choice for users - they offer rom upgrade paths - they don't just dump their customers and move on like O2 have always done.

[DAz999]

Alan, Do you work for 02? Sounds like it!

BBC Watchdog is not just about consumer law, it is about customers who feel they have been treated badly by cash grabbing companies who lack any real responsibilty towards their paying customers.

Have you not watched the program? Many companies have relented after customers have their problems aired on the program. We Alpine owners are not asking 02 anything unreasonable it is 02 who are being ignorant and evasive. :evil:

[AlanJC]

I have nothing to do with O2, I personally detest them, but you have to realise that the vast majority of XDA2i users would not be able to tell you what version of the OS it currently runs, let alone knowing there is the option of an upgrade to anything.

The people here are a very small minority of users who are the gadget lovers, geeks, and tech heads, O2, i-mate, qtek, T-Mobile, Orange, Vodafone, in fact, everyone that sells these things know they can ignore people like us because there are so few of us in comparison to the majority of customers who will blindly buy all the new versions without complaint.

Because *most* companies fail to offer any upgrade path, it becomes acceptable for none to offer it, so therefore, someone who knows nothing about these will argue we aren't being ripped off.

We know it's a raw deal, but this has been going on with WinCE devices for years now, and they never get any better, I very much doubt they will do now.

[seanrkelly]

oh Alan!!!

your not a very excitable person are you...

[AlanJC]

No, not when it comes to things like this.

I have seen it happen too many times, a device is abandoned when it's this old usually.

The only way we will get 2005 is if a network releases it with 2005 and we copy it, or if a beta or development build is leaked as happened with the XDA2 or XDA2s.

There will be no official upgrade to 2005 for any of us because it would cost the company too much money to support. If it's leaked, and we trash our devices, the company doesn't have to worry about supporting it, and all the issues and questions about upgrading aren't their problem either.

[MaskedMarauder]

Have I missed something here, what is so spectacularly superb about 2005? It will come with it's own set of bugs and incompatibilities.

Don't you people know anything about Microsoft yet?

[Anjow]

I don't think BBC Watchdog would address this. This is because its a very specialised subject, something that won't bother 99.99% of the people who watch the program - they are there to address common issues which will affect many more people...

I think you'd have much more luck writing to the watchdog page of a specialist pocketpc magazine (don't know any off the top of my head) because it will affect a much larger percentage of their audience.

[DAz999]

Well it is worth a try anyway. If Watchdog do a piece on bad support and high charges for mobiles etc, which I think is relevent to most users wether techy or not.they may include our bit as well.

I'll be looking at some mobile review sites and see if there are some high profile ones to address this issue too, at least \i'm trying, which is better than accepting the status quo.

[seanrkelly]

Actually, I donly really mind not getting WM5 - it won't change how I use the device - but I do mind then ongoing issue with Blackberry Connect. Hopefully this will be sorted next week - but if past history is anything to go by, I'm not holding my breath!

[superseagulls]

So has O2 confirmed the new rom for next week then? There seems to be one person who says so...... any insiders? Tekguru?

[PC_Arcade]

Actually, I donly really mind not getting WM5 - it won't change how I use the device - but I do mind then ongoing issue with Blackberry Connect. Hopefully this will be sorted next week - but if past history is anything to go by, I'm not holding my breath!

I agree, not bothered particularily about WM5 as that was never advertised as one of the capabilities of the phone, Blackberry however was.
O2 should definately sort this out, Blackberry was one of the reasons for getting the phone, I've been waiting 6 months now despite being told by O2 that it was due in the spring , it's not good enough.

[AlanJC]

Slightly off topic but...

WM2005 would give you support for email push from MS Exchange servers, or from web companies providing the service, as opposed to specific Blackberry based systems.

This will seal the market on a corporate level for future roll outs as most companies will already have an Exchange server, and this will integrate well.

[jaythemagician]

At the end of the day if you bought the device with word from the company that sold it to you telling you it would do something in the future that made you buy the device then withdrew this they are at fault. False advertising. As for watchdog not being interested, i'm sure theres many more things 02 and a whole host of other phone companies have and are doing wrong that merits them being put on the spot, problem is has watchdog got the balls to take on such giant organisations?

[Anjow]

They've done it with much bigger companies, but the point is it won't satisfy a large enough number of viewers so in their eyes it won't be worth showing. Only a certain number of people are on O2, and a really tiny number choose the XDA2i, and only a small number of those are bothered by the issue in question. Whilst it's a very valid complaint, it doesn't make good TV.

[jaythemagician]

No I agree. So maybe people ought to e-mail with all sorts of different complaints, that way they might dedicate more time for a section on rip off phone companies! At the end of the day you can't win, especially with phone companies, they screw you but just try not to get screwed up about it!

[cruisin-thru]

I think we all know when we buy technology that it will soon be superceded. The manufacturer and retailer have to keep their business going and they do this by relying on consumers wanting the latest and greatest. If they offered upgrade paths on their devices it would impact greatly on their sales figures. I dont think it is a support issue as they are in their rights to support only for the guarantee period. It is about sales so to even think that the consumer matters except as unit purchasers is a little naive in my view.

[Arctic Matt]

I was, and still am, the lucky owner of an A925 (as well as my Alpine) and had it not been for the stink kicked up by the "geeky" community, in regards to the stunning lack of enabled hardware on the A920, Motorola would have left the phone for dead. As it was, the small band of protesters got the firmware upgraded and all the hardware enabled which had a knock on effect that spread through the product range to the A1000 and beyond. This is a lesson for this community to never give up in its hassel of O2 as the pressure does work. You may get replies from lower levels of customer support that get you down but all it takes is the "Go" from one high level O2 employee and 2005 is on its way.
Get Their Attention! They actually want the input as it means people care about their products. A loyal customer is not one who upgrades because they are pissed off. A loyal customer is one that upgrades because its time to.
How's that for naive? :D

[DAz999]

We can upgrade our desktops and laptops etc with the latest operating system, it is not unreasonable in my mind to request the same treatment for the handheld pocket pc. Of course manufacturers and resellers are going to going to drag their feet, it effects their profits a little in the short term but in the long term they may increase there profits, if they get a reputation for providing good quality and regular updates and then all the rest of the suits follow, just nobody wants to be the first, as long as they know they can keep palming their customers off, then nothing will change.

Power to the People! :D

[AlanJC]

You can't totally trash a PC by a failed upgrade though, and it doesn't take a special version of an OS upgrade for every model of PC as it does for PDA devices.

Would be nice if it was that simple, but dude, really, these arguments have been going on for as long as I have owned PDA's, and generally, you have to give up the fight and just get a new device, or rely on the community to hack it and make an upgrade, not the manufacturer.

[DAz999]

Hi Alan,

I know what your saying 'cause I worked as an IT Manager in London for a few years and have been in many battles with Manufacturers/resellers.

In my experience I have found that as the consumer base for a product has increased the manufacturers/resellers have responded (Slowly of course). We may still have a bit of a wait for change, but PDA phone use is on the increase, so I will always put pressure on them for change that is good for the end user.

Of course this is all a matter of opinion, but this this mine and the fight goes on. :D

[Puff The Magic Wagon!]

Our O2 account manager has confirmed a ROM u/grade for XDA2i inc Blackberry next week sometime

[DAz999]

I think we all know when we buy technology that it will soon be superceded. The manufacturer and retailer have to keep their business going and they do this by relying on consumers wanting the latest and greatest. If they offered upgrade paths on their devices it would impact greatly on their sales figures. I dont think it is a support issue as they are in their rights to support only for the guarantee period. It is about sales so to even think that the consumer matters except as unit purchasers is a little naive in my view.


I don't think it is naive, it is a fact, when you take away the window dressing of a business like PDA's (And others of course), its all about cash now, as much as possible. This is in fact even more true of shareholder companies. And I don't believe for one second that PDA companies profits will be harmed by offering a bit more value for money. As you can see I look at it from a moralistic point of view, but so what.

[a18041967]

:? I think the ROM update could be due, I've also been told that it would be released end Sept, as yet I've not received anything.

Originally March was the date I was given, but as everyone knows that slipped by. So two idependent users are now being told very similar stories re Blackberry, maybe the delay was due to the inclusion of WM2005 and we will all be very surprised and pleased....

[MaskedMarauder]

:? I think the ROM update could be due, I've also been told that it would be released end Sept, as yet I've not received anything.

Originally March was the date I was given, but as everyone knows that slipped by. So two idependent users are now being told very similar stories re Blackberry, maybe the delay was due to the inclusion of WM2005 and we will all be very surprised and pleased....

Hahaha! Thats so funny dude!

[a18041967]

:cry: Whats your problem ? ? ? I'm trying to help and possibly confirm what others have been saying,

I have to say this is the only forum that I've received not so good replies to my posts....it must be where the council tenants hangout ....

[MaskedMarauder]

What has where you live got to do with such a stupid comment as the Blackberry upgrade will perhaps have 2005 as well? You must hang out with the druggies if you think we are going to get that! Or is it the Rock Apes?

[Anjow]

Stupid is such a strong word, I'd just say optimistic :P

[seanrkelly]

Well - it's the middle of the week and to those who said O2 are releasing an update this week - I am extremely scepticle. There's not been one hine from O2 and customer services are still denying any knowledge of an update.

[andy-c1]

yup can only agree with you ....have been checking the website almost hourly & still no change :cry: :cry:

[Gman1976]

Hi All you winging peeps,
You are all banging about Blackberry and Windows 2005, the XDA II range is not designed for WM2005, Blackberry third party clients are pants and therefore cause more problems, therefore support has been withdrawn and this will not appear on the XDA II devices. Complaining about this will achieve nothing!

The XDA exec will support high speed data access to will function much better with regards to email applications and DOES support a PULL function. So if you stop moaning and stop being tight wads, just ny the latest hardware!!!

[seanrkelly]

Not much good if you work for a corporation that hasn't invested in Exchange push - this is very new technology and take some time for corporations to change from the their BES's - and thats only if it seems economical to do so. Some coporations purchased the XDA range on the strength of the promise from O2 on the blackberry connect client - then they took it away - so don't start upsetting those on here who have been waiting patiently all this time. No - don't even start...

[Danny-B-]

Hi All you winging peeps,
You are all banging about Blackberry and Windows 2005, the XDA II range is not designed for WM2005, Blackberry third party clients are pants and therefore cause more problems, therefore support has been withdrawn and this will not appear on the XDA II devices. Complaining about this will achieve nothing!

The XDA exec will support high speed data access to will function much better with regards to email applications and DOES support a PULL function. So if you stop moaning and stop being tight wads, just ny the latest hardware!!!

Well .... freedom of speach n all that .

The XDAIIi was advertised as having blackberry so companies bought the devices on those promises ... alot of those custoers will be very pissed off, and quite rightly so.

I personally couldnt give a rats arse if we got BlackBerry as i will never use it. BUT many people would have.

As for WM2005 ... the XDA 2 quite obviously had a WM2005 version designed for it so just because it wasnt made with WM2005 in mind whats that got to do with the price of cheese ??

Im my mind the XDA IIi deserves WM2005, and us "tight arses" will more than likely upgrade to the newer technology when our present contracts run out.

[DAz999]

here! Here! Danny-B

Gman1976 your are a bit strong it is easily possible to put WM2005 on Alpine, its already been done for Hymalaya and Blue Angel, so check your facts out and your manners before you post!!!!

[MaskedMarauder]

Gentlemen, if you starve a Troll he will go and look for somewhere else to feed.......

[cruisin-thru]

:cry: Whats your problem ? ? ? I'm trying to help and possibly confirm what others have been saying,

I have to say this is the only forum that I've received not so good replies to my posts....it must be where the council tenants hangout ....



Very sad to see a member of the Tory party still alive. Extinction is hopefully inevitable and in the not too distant future. To disparage a group on the basis of their housing status displays total ignorance.

[seanrkelly]

ok it's friday - and to those who said there would be an update out this week - where is it? Since March many people have said there would be a blackberry update released - and nothing! even o2 have denied it, even though it wsa advertised as coming in their web site.

If anyone has links into O2 - would you be able to rattle some cages and find out what the hell is going on? Is O2 really trying to drive away their customers by pissing them off that much!! :cry: :cry:

[andy-c1]

07.10.2005 15.13 still no update
oh well maybe next year :cry:

[Arctic Matt]

Hi All you winging peeps,
So if you stop moaning and stop being tight wads, just ny the latest hardware!!!
I did and it does not do what they say it will. That is why we are moaning.
You sour little git!
p.s. I know the mayor of Ipswich and I'm going to put in a word about you!
:lol:

[MaskedMarauder]

Am I missing something with the Blackberry issues, I can't understand what all the fuss is about. When I try to look into it all I can find is that if you want it O2 charge £15pcm for the service, with an additional charge if you go over 5MB of data.

Does everyone want their email pushed at that price or am I missing something?

[seanrkelly]

If you are using a corporate account - then you personally are not paying thoses costs. I personally would gladly dump by blackberry in favour of a blackberry service running on a pocket pc. The blackberry is so ...... not very dynamic!

[Puff The Magic Wagon!]

Believe me when I say that the Blackberry running on a Pocket Pc device is not that dynamic either! Doesn't do all the BB things, just send/receive mail - no contacts, no callendar & no tasks.

[andy-c1]

i tried bb there's a d/load on this site somewhere ,but it kept on locking up my ppc ,spose it might be the wrong 1 for a xda2i but it did install

[benbattle]

Believe me when I say that the Blackberry running on a Pocket Pc device is not that dynamic either! Doesn't do all the BB things, just send/receive mail - no contacts, no callendar & no tasks.

But I do all that other stuff using Activesync. All I want on the road is my corporate push e-mail and the ability to look up the corporate address book, both of which the promised BB client does. It's doubly annoying when you've traded up from a serviceable 2 that did it to a 2i that doesn't.

I see no ROM upgrades :-(


David

[bigballs]

Ok so its now the second week of October (Only Early part) but people have been saying First week of October for the new rom with blackberry.

So how about that on Friday @ 4pm we all call the 02 Customer Service Number and ask where the rom with blackberry is. If we get flogged off ask to speak to a supervisor this way with limited number of them (supervisors) and more then enough of us they may have to do something about it. Also being late on a Friday afternoon we can wear them down.

If we threaten to cancel our subscriptions (of which many of us are long time customers) they will have to elevate the issue with the correct management.

Just a thought that might work and if it does then do it for WM2005 :lol:

[evilc]

I have a Blue Angel (O2 XDA IIs) - O2 has only released WM 2003 for it.
I obtained WM2005 from here and upgraded.

I have now voided my HARDWARE warranty. How is this right ?
If I bought a Desktop PC from, say, Dell, with Windows XP on it and installed Linux - how would it be legal for Dell to void the warranty on my hardware for installing a different OS ? It wouldn't. So how can O2 void the warranty on my XDA ?

[clustered]

Just a thought that might work and if it does then do it for WM2005 :lol:

i dont think there will be WM2005 from O2 for XDA IIi.....they're busy making money....as we know....none of previous XDA devices have had an operating system upgrade from O2....

buzz surely can:D ....w8 until he have an alpine....

[MaskedMarauder]

Well it is Friday of the second week in October and no update on the XDAIIi micro site.......

[Puff The Magic Wagon!]

http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=22877

I also have been speaking to my account manager - he is just waiting to get hold of his sales pack on it to copy it off for me.

Yes it is delayed over what previously said, but I don't like to add to rumours without proper info. Believe me when I say that he wouldn't tell me it was coming as any delay creates a whole field of grief for him ;)

[Puff The Magic Wagon!]

Well it is Friday of the second week in October and no update on the XDAIIi micro site.......

Thursday today :?

;)

[MaskedMarauder]

I got to stop having my breakfast in the pub........

[Puff The Magic Wagon!]

:D

Damn! Thats what I do wrong...

[clustered]

im tried waiting.....n sad about WM5.....

[Southern_Man]

im tried waiting.....n sad about WM5.....

The update is there now....

[TAY]

im tried waiting.....n sad about WM5.....

The update is there now....

... and doesn't bloody work!

[Southern_Man]

im tried waiting.....n sad about WM5.....

The update is there now....

... and doesn't bloody work!

Nice. Care to elaborate for those of us who can't read minds....?

[Puff The Magic Wagon!]

Works fine for me...




But you don't want to hear that ;)



:oops:

[TAY]

im tried waiting.....n sad about WM5.....

The update is there now....

... and doesn't bloody work!

Nice. Care to elaborate for those of us who can't read minds....?

Dunno if this will work but I've attached a jpg of what the install says after running the exe

[burned2k]

You lot bang on about alot of tosh "mummy my Alpine hasnt got win2005 and doesnt have blackberry like those greedy money grabbing bastards at o2 promised" grow up, if O2 hasnt released these much wanted updates its cos they DONT!! work yet.
The fact that the XDA2 has win2005 is cos some very smart person adapted it to work, if it was that easy surely they would do it for the XDA2i.
O2 relies on HTC/Microsoft to provide upto date information, if they say it will support Blackberry then O2 has no reason to suspect it wont.
The mobile industry moves so quickly if they dont release the latest hardware "XDA Exec" then someone else will. The income generated by allowing XDA2I users the Blackberry service would bring in lots of extra dosh so its false economy to hold back on a update everyone would benefit from.
It seems to me theres alot of people here upset at the fact they jumped in a bought a product that has quickly been replaced by a better one, If that is the case swallow your pride log on to your ebay account sell your alpine and save your pennies for what you really want. :lol:

[kpblaesing]

blackberry support can be downloaded (upgraded with the 17.oct 2005 firmware for blueangel (only the file works only with original o2 product not upgraded version from qtek/orange/...

i have the download and the blackberry client
from here
http://www.my-xda.com/xda2s_soft3.html (read it carfully)

first one who can demo it on a imate pda2 or orange spv2000 gets
100.00 pound sterling from me to let me know and i can succesfully recreate it on my device collection !

ps i am very interrested to get the wm5 code so can complete my upgrade of my alpine (i am more or less complete with the requirement/changes for the different hardware platform structure)

[clustered]

kpblaesing,

checkout here!! http://www.buzzdev.net

buzz the talent person that made WM5 for BlueAngel. I'm sure he can do it for Alpine too but he dont have Alpine device yet.