USB car charger [Archive] - xda-developers

beginner

22nd September 2006, 02:08 AM

Does anybody charge their TyTN in car via a usb car charger. I use a usb car charger for different devices: Bluetooth headset, gps reciever...
I also used it to recharge my Blue Angel.
Unfortunately I can't charge the TyTN. Has anyone had the same issue?
The charger says that it can charge 1Ampere. The original home charger is also 1 Ampere, so I don't understand why it doesn't work.
Have tried it with two different usb car chargers and both have the same problem: It charges only if TyTN is turned off. When I switch it on then the red charging light turns off.

I had similar problems except I didn't need to swithc the pda. I saw the usb charge couldn't charge completly or it was very slow to charge if I had screen with light or TomTom running.

I solved using a diferent charger, that generates 220 volts. It has 140W and costs around 40 euro.

Lio

22nd September 2006, 09:20 AM

Do you have a link, a picture or a brand name to this product?

pix09

24th September 2006, 11:39 AM

Does anybody charge their TyTN in car via a usb car charger. I use a usb car charger for different devices: Bluetooth headset, gps reciever...
I also used it to recharge my Blue Angel.
Unfortunately I can't charge the TyTN. Has anyone had the same issue?
The charger says that it can charge 1Ampere. The original home charger is also 1 Ampere, so I don't understand why it doesn't work.
Have tried it with two different usb car chargers and both have the same problem: It charges only if TyTN is turned off. When I switch it on then the red charging light turns off.

Same problem.
I was told by the dealer that it's a matter o cable (the pins in the cable)
the one sold with the device is fine just to sync and charge from pc, but can't charge through car adapter.
I'm bought a new cable (arriving next week): it's a double cable, one side for pc, other side for charging.
if it works, I'll post..
bye

Lio

24th September 2006, 09:39 PM

pix09

25th September 2006, 09:07 AM

I'm afraid to tell you that your new cable will not work. You were not well informed. I am sure that it is not a cable problem, but a charger problem. According to me the power output expressed in Amps (Ampere) is not strong enough even though it says that it's 1 Ampere as the mains charger. Those cheap chinese made chargers are not strong enough for the TyTN. That's why it charges when the TyTN is switched off but as soon as you switch it on, the power output from usb car charger is not enough.

mmhhh, I'll wait the new cable, hoping it works ;.)
the fact is that with original cable the car adapter doesn't charge even if the device is off..
same thing with a 220V usb adapter.
only the original kit seems to work..
I'll tell you in a few days

btw: both adapter are chinese ;-)

Airax

25th September 2006, 10:36 AM

Nope, Lio is right on this one. The car charger simply doesn't supply enough juice to charge the TyTN. O2 Exec users have had this problem for ages.

sparkyxda

26th September 2006, 08:55 PM

I use the charger bought from the Orange shop for the spv c500. Works fine, if a little slowly.

cieplowski

28th September 2006, 04:14 PM

There are strange things happening!

The USB cable should not enter in to the equation as USB is USB and the pins should be wired correctly.

Here is what I have found.

If charging in the car all is ok until the power is cut, then it only charges whilst off until the TYTN is soft reset. This looks to me like there is a software / powercontroller confilct. It is a little confusing but see the scenarios below;

Soft reset TYTN, leave it off. Plug in to cigarette charger, turn TYTN on/off all is fine.
Turn off TYTN and unplug, all is fine, plug back in (TYTN off) will still charge when TYTN on.
Turn TYTN on, unplug, will not charge whilst on anymore until soft reset but will charge whilst off.
This is the same if I turn the ignition to power the lightere socket.

However, another spanner in the works, if I pull out the charger even with the device off and re-insert it it stops charging until soft reset.

What seemd to work best was to do a soft reset whilst the unit is charging and powered on. After that I was able to unplug, plug in even when the unit was on, turn ignition off/on etc... It only reverted back to not charging when I removed the charger from the socket as it was charging.

These are my findings and I presume each charger will be different.

I presume whatever electronics are in the chargers also causes problems. I have tried 2 USB and one fully wired charger and it is the same with all. I know for a fact that at least 2 of them have overcharge circuitry built in but do not think the 3rd has, I also presume the TYTN also has so perhaps there is some conflict here also.

I do know that there are car chargers specifically for the TYTN so will try one of those and see if it solves the problem. (anyone tried one?)

Anyone with more ideas please let us know.

Lio

28th September 2006, 11:43 PM

What seemd to work best was to do a soft reset whilst the unit is charging and powered on. After that I was able to unplug, plug in even when the unit was on, turn ignition off/on etc... It only reverted back to not charging when I removed the charger from the socket as it was charging.

Thank you for this tip. Now I can recharge in car thanks to u! :lol: I tried it and it works.

cieplowski

29th September 2006, 10:10 AM

Great Lio,

Glad it worked. When you get a chance, could you pull out the chrger from the lighter socket as it is charging and let me know if it then stops charging again. I just want to see if the same happens to you as it did to me. It will work again once you soft reset whilst plugged in.

Thanks.

Lurker0

1st October 2006, 02:48 PM

What seemd to work best was to do a soft reset whilst the unit is charging and powered on. I believe this trick should go to FAQ.

A week ago I visited a lot of shops trying many mains-to-USB charges to no avail. I already had one for MP3 player that didn't work too.

After reading your post, I connected the original charger and SRed. Now that another charger works!

Can't imagine what's the reason but it really works.

Lurker0

3rd October 2006, 01:57 PM

could you pull out the chrger from the lighter socket as it is charging and let me know if it then stops charging again.Yes, it does exactly like you've described.

Lio

3rd October 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by cieplowski
could you pull out the chrger from the lighter socket as it is charging and let me know if it then stops charging again.

Same here.

gogol

4th October 2006, 12:06 AM

Is this a bug in the software ?

I found this : http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=138248

I think it should work fine, I am not sure.

38h21543

4th October 2006, 12:34 PM

"I found this : http://www.expansys.com/product.asp?code=138248"

Could you contact them and ask about its power rating and whether it is susceptible to the problem/bug?

pix09

6th October 2006, 12:15 AM

here I am again.
finally I got the new cable and... surprise... IT WORKS
I used it without soft resetting the device and it worked
I tryed soft resetting the device and it worked
But the biggest surprise of all is that after using the new cable, also the old one started working ..
i guess there must have been a software bug that has gone (hope forever) away.
For those interested, the new cable is a double one: one side is usb, other two sides are charge connector and hotsync connector.

fil

6th October 2006, 06:37 PM

Crash Override

11th October 2006, 02:08 PM

friend of mine has apparently got a tytn, I'll pick up a 1.2A USB / Car adapter this weekend and see what happens, hopefully the extra .2A should enable the tytn / exec to charge normally in a car.

Having had an exec for a while I will agree that most 12v/USB adapters struggle with the exec, but hopefully this will make the difference, if it works I will post the details of the company selling them (they are listed for the PSP)

8Ball

11th October 2006, 08:58 PM

I haven't had this trouble. Just got my new MDA Vario II and I've used it with my old MDA compact mains charger and the car USB charger and it works with no problems.

Tried it with the Vario II on and off and have a charging light on both.

PhilipZ

14th October 2006, 04:25 PM

Problem with car charger or even with mains power charger is in connector of TyTN. Male mini USB have 5 pins if you look pins from left to right they are: 1- Ground; 2 - not used; 3 - Data+; 4 - Data-; 5 - +5VDC. People from HTC dicided to use pin 2 which normaly is "not used" to recognize original power source. If this pin connected to ground TyTN recognize like good power source and even light of screen is on you can charge device. If this pin floating (not connected) then only with screen turned off you can charge battery. Today i bought from electronic shop mini USB connector, replaced and now can charge TyTN in car during TomTom navigation. Successful soldering :-)

warmkiwi99

14th October 2006, 09:16 PM

you should start a business modifying cables!

does this mean the car charger advertised on the HTC site also doesn't work correctly (it's supplied by Expansys.com)?

Spit

5th November 2006, 11:03 AM

Philipz,

Can you post or send some more informations on how to do that ?

Reagrds

Spit

SPVM3100 with Wexim CarCharger (CC-XDAM) who doesn't work :-(

cepu

5th November 2006, 11:45 AM

and this one http://cgi.ebay.it/Caricabatteria-da-auto-per-HTC-TyTN-MTeoR-Oxygen-Breeze_W0QQitemZ110049967277QQihZ001QQcategoryZ585 37QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem do you think works? Thks

xdadevster

6th November 2006, 11:16 AM

I see these official HTC car chargers (referenced further back in thread) aren't in stock till 18th November:
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=138248

Anyone tried one of these ORA TyTn-specific chargers before I order one?
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=139743

alex_atanassov

11th December 2006, 11:02 PM

PhilipZ,
Having similar problem with my car charger and having read all posts must admit what you say is the most logical explanation of the problems we all have.
Something interesting: the car charger on this site is only for use with HTC made devices, which comes to say there is something unique with them (as usually...) :

http://cgi.ebay.it/Caricabatteria-da-auto-per-HTC-TyTN-MTeoR-Oxygen-Breeze_W0QQitemZ110049967277QQihZ001QQcategoryZ585 37QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

PhilipZ - can you pls explain how did you exactly modify your miniUSB. I will definitely do that as well

wrxppp

13th December 2006, 11:45 PM

Only just seen this thread and thought I'd chip in with the charger I bought for my Var II some 2 months ago.
It was from an Ebay seller - shop name is "Simply Smartphones"
It only cost £1.99 plus £2.75 postage and sold as "HTC TYTN in car charger".

No problems at all charging my Var II or BT GPS on the move

NIck

tadzio

14th December 2006, 01:16 AM

I can confirm what PhillipZ said, and give abit more information.

Firstly, the behaviour we see was intended to be a feature (although I'm not convinced of its usefulness): whenever you insert a USB connector into the TyTN's plug, it will sense the +5V. It then "looks" at the data lines to check if there's a real USB device (like a PC or a USB hub) at the other end of the cable. USB devices must first negotiate with the device at the other end of the cable about how much poer they're allowed to drain. If the TyTN senses that the data lines are dead, it tries to be a good citizen and does not draw any power from it.

Unfortunately, none of the chargers are USB devices, so the data lines will always be dead. To allow the TyTN to still work with such a charger, it was decided that the TyTN will also look at pin 4 (the one PhillipZ referred to as number 2; the official USB standard counting starts from the other end, so it's pin 4 really), and if this is connected to pin 5 (i.e., to ground), then the TyTN knows it's okay to start drawing power from the device.

This scheme is not specific to the TyTN. Most (four out of five) mains chargers with USB connectors I have indeed have a "grounded" pin 4. These come from very different manufacturers, including some Chinese ones. Some of them have a very low power rating (0.5 A), and they still charge the TyTN nicely even when the display is on. So the power isn't really the deciding factor if a charger works or not.

Then there are the chargers (mains or car) which do not have a fixed cable, but just a USB connector, meant to be used with a standard USB cable. These will indeed not work with the TyTN. The reason is that none of the available USB cables do have a grounded pin 4 at the Mini USB end. And they mustn't have that: pin is marked as "reserved" in the USB standard, and nobody really knows what all the USB devices would do if connected to a PC via such a cable. Some of them might do nasty things. So the cable manufacturers play by the rules and leave pin 4 unconnected.

This is of course no concern for chargers with a fixed cable, as the manufacturer can be sure the cable will never be used to connect two real USB devices. That's why such chargers are likely to work - for me, four out of five.

The HTC Magician (MDA compact, XDA mini) originally showed the exact same behavior. It was later modified with a ROM upgrade, so that the Magician could be charged even on charger with unconnected pin 4. I find it a bit annoying that HTC reverted back to the old behavior - it's really a feature that no-one likes, and I never heard of problems with the Magician, although technically it may be violating the USB standard.

I verified the pin 4 issue with a special cable I made (back when I bought my Magician; sacrificing the Magician charger). This cable has now a normal USB plug on one end, and a Mini USB plug with pin 4 grounded on the other. Using this cable, all my car and mains charger without a fixed cable could charge my TyTN with no problem. I have never dared to try and use that cable to connect my PC and the TyTN...

The fact that the TyTN can be charged with an unconnected pin 5 charger immediately after a soft reset seems to be a bug. Interestingly, software seems to play a role here: with an O2 ROM, it was possible to charge the TyTN exactly once. If you disconnected and reconnected, i wouldn't work until the next soft reset. With the current South African ROM and no programs installed, charging worked as many times as I wanted, but only until I connected the TyTN to the PC. Once it sensed a real USB device at the other end, it refused to charge from an unconnected pin 4 charger.

One last thing: on the three Mini USB connectors I cut open, the pin 4 metal clip was considerably shorter than the clips of all the other pins. It was not possible to solder a wire to it without cutting very deeply into the connector. So, unfortunately, it's very hard to modify a standard cable so that pin 4 is grounded. It seems that until (if ever) a ROM update changes the behavior again, the best thing to do is get a charger with a fixed cable which specifically supports the TyTN (or Magician).

Cheers
Daniel

kolargol

15th December 2006, 12:48 AM

So, if I understand the situation, there are two types of "USB-mini connectors": Mini-A and Mini-B (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Mini-USB_signaling).
All the "common" or "standard" cables have Mini-B connector, where pin 4 is NOT connected to ground - and we cannot use them to charge our TyTNs.
But, when we buy cable with Mini-A connector, which HAS pin 4 connected to ground - it must work and charge with any charger (e.g., I have car charger for my StarFinder GPS with common USB connector).

Am I right about this?

tadzio

15th December 2006, 01:38 AM

Am I right about this?

Basically yes, but I am not sure that a Mini-A plug will mechanically fit into the TyTN's receptacle. The TyTN does not have USB On The Go capabilities, so there's no need for a standard-conforming Mini-AB receptacle.

But as I need an easy solution myself, I'll just go ahead and buy a Mini-A to Standard-A cable. It'll take a few days, but when it arrives, I'll let you know if it fits. Of course, if someone already has such a cable, it'd be nice if they could post their results here.

Cheers
Daniel

Evan55

16th December 2006, 07:52 AM

Thanks for the insight guys.

This very well could be the same reason that my Zen Micro MP3 player also wont charge using cheap ebay chargers either.

I wonder how we determine if a charger is specific to HTC if this behavior is not typical? Is there any reason to believe any of the ebay chargers would in fact be compatible? For example this auction appears to be targeted to HTC (and ironically, Zen Micro) devices.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Car-Travel-Charger-For-T-Mobile-MDA-SDA-Cingular-8525_W0QQitemZ250061701593QQihZ015QQcategoryZ10859 9QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I bought (expensive) car and travel chargers for my 8525 from Cingular when I bought the phone - made by Motorola for the V3 but recommended by Cingular, I havent pulled them out of the package yet, but is it safe to assume that they wont work either?

icemantwilight

16th December 2006, 03:04 PM

Out of curiosity has anyone worked out how the unit detects headphones are inserted? My guess is it does something on the USB side of the pins.

jcb_home

16th December 2006, 06:20 PM

Tadzio,

Thanks for the great information. I just got my 8525 and was having the same power problem, with your information I just soldered Pin 4 to Pin 5 in my charger. Since I only use it for my phone I will not harm anything else.

Thanks so much

icemantwilight

17th December 2006, 12:59 AM

Tadzio,

Thanks for the great information. I just got my 8525 and was having the same power problem, with your information I just soldered Pin 4 to Pin 5 in my charger.

How did you get access to it? A standard mini to A connector doesn't pass back pin 5.

Wiper

18th December 2006, 07:26 AM

Thanks for this info.

However, I decided to do things another way around. Instead of modifying USB cable, I opened up the car charger and grounded the 4 and 5 pins.

tadzio

18th December 2006, 09:52 AM

Thanks for this info.

However, I decided to do things another way around. Instead of modifying USB cable, I opened up the car charger and grounded the 4 and 5 pins.

I am afraid that cannot work. A normal USB A connector has only four pins rather than the five of a Mini USB A. The one missing pin is - you guessed it - pin 4 from the Mini USB side. There is not even a wire for this pin in the cable.

Cheers
Daniel

Wiper

18th December 2006, 12:36 PM

I am afraid that cannot work. A normal USB A connector has only four pins rather than the five of a Mini USB A. The one missing pin is - you guessed it - pin 4 from the Mini USB side. There is not even a wire for this pin in the cable.

Cheers
Daniel

Damnation, good point :D. Oh well. I guess I better do some mini USB tweaking. I guess silver paint would do the trick. Tho I dunno how many times you can attach and detach the cable until the paint wears out. One other way is to drill a small hole that would reveal pins 4 and 5 (or which ever way the pin layout is presented) and ground them underneath.

jasjamming

27th December 2006, 10:01 AM

hi guys,

would the official tytn car charger from expansys (assuming it work on the tytn flawlessly) also work to charge, for e.g. a globasat gps unit?

tadzio

27th December 2006, 10:24 AM

hi guys,

would the official tytn car charger from expansys (assuming it work on the tytn flawlessly) also work to charge, for e.g. a globasat gps unit?

Although I didn't try specifically with a GlobalSat unit, I am sure it will work.

It's only PocketPCs which are picky about pin 4 - all other kinds of devices are happy (and start charging) as long as they "see" 5 V on pin 1 and 0 V on pin 5.

Cheers
Daniel

jasjamming

27th December 2006, 10:37 AM

cheers and thanks for that.... i will try it out and post the results.

thedogger

2nd January 2007, 08:31 PM

I've had the same problems with chargers. Only 2 out of 5 of my mini-USB chargers works with my HTC TyTN. It definitely seems to be a software issue, because the unit charges fine with these chargers, no matter if they put out 500mA or 1 AMP, when the unit is completely off. Once it is powered on and in standby (screen off) or with screen on, they don't work. I put a note regarding this issue on HTC's wiki 'known problems' page. Hopefully HTC reads their own wiki every once in a while.

alex_atanassov

2nd January 2007, 11:04 PM

:) Guys, I finally made up my mind and dismantled one of the 'USB/miniUSB'cables I had. Connected the idle pin 4 to pin 5, re-assembled the mini USB plug and can confrim I can now charge the HTC Tytn with any car charge adapter with standard USB output plug.
This will also work on any standard car charger with miniUSB output.

If you do this, make sure you do not connect by accident any of the other pins. Suggest check with a tester this before re-assembling.

Another thing; note that once pin 4 and 5 are connected you will not be able to use this specific cable to connect the TyTn with a PC; charging via PC USB however will works.

icemantwilight

3rd January 2007, 12:53 AM

Another thing; note that once pin 4 and 5 are connected you will not be able to use this specific cable to connect the TyTn with a PC; charging via PC USB however will works.

That's interesting, I'll add that to my notes. Just to confirm.. if the pins are bridged the TYTN will NOT talk data on that cable??

alex_atanassov

3rd January 2007, 01:03 AM

Correct, ActiveSync did not work with the cable i re-worked. Only charging.
Beleive this is not an issue if you use this cable only in the car.

SkizZO

3rd January 2007, 02:00 AM

good! thanx to let us know your experience!

(it's a correct phrase??)

joej

3rd January 2007, 06:31 AM

good! thanx to let us know your experience!

(it's a correct phrase??)

hi, do post pictures if you can. thanks :)

jridder

4th January 2007, 01:09 AM

This behavior is particularly annoying because not only will my Motorola charger not charge my TyTN, my TyTN charger will not charge my Motorola. I guess I have to wire up a double headed cable. So much for standards. Idiots.

jasjamming

4th January 2007, 06:29 AM

Radimus

4th January 2007, 07:14 PM

I use a $10.00 retractable cable RAZR charger from WalMart and it works fine

freeck

6th January 2007, 11:09 PM

alex_atanassov

6th January 2007, 11:18 PM

Hi guys,

I am already testing some time to get my car charger working, and finally found this thread where the solution seems to be described (because I don't have the mini-usb-connector I cannot test I now.
But something puzzles me: If I connect my gsm to my PC with the standard USB-cable delivered by Orange, I measure that pin 4 and 5 are not connected.
But the charging is still working....?

Can somebody explain that?

This was explained in another thread with the fact that TyTn starts charging when (1) notice data via Active Sync or (2) notice reliable power source (even no data). Obviosuly due to some bug we need to connect pin 4+5 to tell TyTn he has a reliable poer source.

tadzio

7th January 2007, 12:40 PM

But something puzzles me: If I connect my gsm to my PC with the standard USB-cable delivered by Orange, I measure that pin 4 and 5 are not connected.
But the charging is still working....?

Can somebody explain that?

Well, the TyTN takes pin 4 into consideration only if there is no proper USB device at the other end of the cable. If there is a device (like your PC), they negotiate the current the TyTN may draw from the USB port of the PC, and then the TyTN starts charging.

Cheers
Daniel

jridder

8th January 2007, 11:00 PM

I tried the "plug it in and do a soft reset" routine with my 8525. As others have noted, it continued to charge after the reset finished. However, it also continued to work when I disconnected power and then connected power again (I think others reported that it would only continue charging as long as the power was connected).

Further, I did another soft reset with the power not connected. It still continued to charge properly with my Motorola charger and my generic car charger. I then did a complete power cycle and it still charges. I guess my 8525 finally learned it's lesson (and I'm very glad I don't have to hack a power cable - just an audio cable).

Jonathan

jridder

20th January 2007, 09:22 AM

Another update. My 8525 didn't completely "learn it's lesson". It seems to charge OK with my Motorola charger after a soft reset. Then it will continue working for a while even when I unplug the power or even power cycle. However, at some point it stops working (after a day or two) and I have to soft reset again.

warmkiwi99

20th January 2007, 10:20 AM

soft reset trick works for me.

noticed that without this, it doesn't charge until the screen deactivates, then it charges

thebimbo

20th January 2007, 01:26 PM

I bought a combo AC/car charger and it works fine with the TyTN.

http://www.boxwave.com/products/categories/versacharger.htm

jfrm

23rd January 2007, 04:24 PM

I'm using the soft reset trick and normally it use to works, but it is a little annoying to be resetting everytime your forget to suspend before connect....

It's possible to change the behaviour of the hermes with a registry hack?

It's possible to solder, or connect with a small copper wire, the pins on the male USB (not miniUSB) side of the cable?

if so, can any one who knows the wiring order post a image HowTo?

Thanks in advance.

Lurker0

23rd January 2007, 04:38 PM

It's possible to solder, or connect with a small copper wire, the pins on the male USB (not miniUSB) side of the cable?You see, that USB connector has 4 pins, and all are in use. The MiniUSB has 5 pins, and this is exactly one odd that is used to signal about the charger. But it's not that hard to short pins in the MiniUSB connector. Even if the #4 pin has no a soldering plane inside. I used a piece of thin wire, inserted it into the hole that keeps the 4th pin inside, and soldered it to #5. They also can be shorted from the connector side, which goes into the phone. Do it yourself or find somebody to do it for you, and forget about the problem forever.

FruJu

26th January 2007, 12:11 PM

I got a car charger of ebay for a dollar, works great!

lan

24th February 2007, 05:53 PM

I dit some surging on the mini usb and found this information in Wikipedia:

Most of the pins of a Mini-USB connector are the same as those in a standard USB connector, except pin 4. Pin 4 is called "ID" and, in the Mini-A connector, is connected to ground, but in the Mini-B is not connected. This causes a device supporting USB On-The-Go (with a Mini-AB socket) to initially act as host when connected to a USB Mini-A connector (the "A" end of a Mini-A–Mini-B cable). The Mini-A connector also has an additional piece of plastic inside to prevent insertion into a slave-only (B-only) device

It seems that we need a mini USB-A cable to charge the divice. I have only no idea if you can buy this cable. If you look at the differences between the A and B connector you can see that the female connector is made for a mini-A. Hope this information helps.

jfrm

20th March 2007, 07:13 PM

Hi!

May someone report if this problem arise with new sets of WM6 Roms?

Thanks

tadzio

21st March 2007, 01:33 AM

Hi!

May someone report if this problem arise with new sets of WM6 Roms?

Thanks

Yes, problem persists. :-(

jfrm

21st March 2007, 11:05 AM

Thank You Tadzio.

Finaly, I will patch the usb cable

sajeel

21st March 2007, 07:17 PM

I no longer have problems of having to soft reset phone to charge as described in previous articles since upgraded firmware to latest version as below:

ROM Version: 2.11.255.1
Rom Date: 03/07/07
Radio Version: 1.38.00.10
Protocol Version: 32.71.7020.12H

Hope this helps latest version can be found here;

http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_Upgrades

skyhook8

4th April 2007, 06:02 PM

I used this product:

http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/specialized_maintenance_repair/auto_glass_maintenance_repair/Permatex_Quick_Grid_Rear_Window_Defogger_Repair_Ki t.htm

I opened the Mini USB male connector on my car charger. I have two car chargers and only one could be opened gracefully. I used the Permatex product to create a bridge between Pins 4 and 5. There was already a resistor between the two for some reason. After I let the compound dry I measured the resistance between the pins to be zero. Now the charger works fine.

I have a non-working wall charger but can't open the Mini USB end so I'm gonna try using the smallest screw driver of a mini screw driver set and put just a dab of the compound deep in the connector so that hopefully it won't get scrubbed off when inserted. I'll post the results later.

skyhook8

5th April 2007, 09:46 PM

This morning I bridged pins 4 and 5 with a tiny screw driver and the Permatex product mentioned above. While I wasn't able to apply the compound only to the deep interior of the plug pin surface, I was successful in getting the previously faulty wall charger to charge every time.

owlman

23rd April 2007, 08:02 AM

Forgive for a question...
Who can lay out the scheme and a photo changed charge devices?
I for a basis can take any charge the device miniUSB?

jalvemo

8th May 2007, 12:38 PM

frustin

8th May 2007, 01:04 PM

w00dman

15th May 2007, 05:04 PM

Forgive for a question...
Who can lay out the scheme and a photo changed charge devices?
I for a basis can take any charge the device miniUSB?

I had a problem with my ETEN X-500. It charged normally from a supplied wall charger but charged very slowly with other "universal" ones. I finally modified my car charger by connecting contacts 4 and 5. The procedure is described here (http://www.bestparking.eu/miniusb.html)
Good luck!

SkizZO

5th June 2007, 06:17 PM

hey guys... i have a question for you...

due to mine Situation (http://skizz0.altervista.org/hosted/car/comp1.jpg), i dave to connect the contacts on the pcb of the cigarette adapter circuit (into the pic, the "+5v per auto" square).

Now, because it has inside it 4 pins (+1 i hope GND that is the metallic jack?)
WhiCH PINS I HAVE TO CONNECT? (PLZ!!!)
i've soldered pins 1&2 but doesn't work..

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5700/jackmy8.jpg

tadzio

5th June 2007, 08:42 PM

WhiCH PINS I HAVE TO CONNECT? (PLZ!!!)

That cannot work. First of all, you have the numbering reversed - see, for example, http://pinouts.ws/usb-pinout.html .

Then, the side you photographed has only four pins. It's the other (the Mini USB) side that has five pins. Unfortunately, the cable has only four wires in it at well. If you look at the site I linked above, you'll see a drawing of a Mini USB connector there. I disagree with their numbering scheme, but it makes things quite clear: you'll see that one pin (second one from the right) has no number. This means it is not connected to any of the four pins at the other side of the cable. But unfortunately this is exactly the pin that must be connected to the pin right next to it (in the same drawing marked as '4').

So, you must work on the Mini USB side of the cable. No way around this.

Cheers
tadzio

SkizZO

5th June 2007, 09:35 PM

...i know that this is a "reversed scheme", infact on the pcb i have soldered the opposite pins... (now i'll unsolder them)

Also.. i hope there is a chance to sold the pins into the tytn Y cable (shouldn't it be already jointed into y cable?) , but the problem still remain on the usb port near the gear lever..

the only solution for that is to modify the cable... but i hope that i doesn't find the additional cable along the cable... so i have to solder the pins into the miniusb jack?? :o :o :o I hope it's impossible!

tadzio

5th June 2007, 10:08 PM

but the problem still remain on the usb port near the gear lever..

Which problem? Just connect pin 1 to +5V, pin 4 to ground, and on that end of the cable you're good.

so i have to solder the pins into the miniusb jack??

Yes. Pin 4 to pin 5. No way to avoid this.

Cheers
tadzio.

SkizZO

5th June 2007, 10:56 PM

Yes. Pin 4 to pin 5. No way to avoid this.

Cheers
tadzio.[/QUOTE]
i mean... direct into the jack? cutting the cable i hope there isn't the "not used" mini-cable ...

it's difficult for me because my solder has a big extremity.

SkizZO

9th June 2007, 10:42 AM

All solved for My hermes: connected pins 4&5 into tytn Y adapter, easy because there are 1cm long cables into it, and with the welder is easy to melt its covering & knit the wires.

Remain the miniusb cable (from USB port to the motorola of my girl :D)

blackkopi

10th June 2007, 04:33 PM

gondalguru

13th June 2007, 01:34 AM

I am also using the car charger that came with Holux M1000 (bluetooth GPS receiver) to charge my Cingular 8525 and it works fine.

earazi

14th June 2007, 01:02 PM

Hi,

I'm looking for an off the shelf solution that will charge both my Vario II and my bluetooth gps (uses a round yellow connector which I believe is a 4mm).

Do you think this charger will work correctly without any modifications:

http://www.gomadic.com/t-mobile-mda-vario-ii-double-car-charger.html

Also anyone know if there's a similar product available in the UK?

Thanks

Elliot

TheBrit

14th June 2007, 07:31 PM

The looks OK but I use something like this one: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ORANGE-SPV-M5000-M6000-TOMTOM-BLUETOOTH-GPS-CAR-CHARGER_W0QQitemZ330134308111QQihZ014QQcategoryZ48 674QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You might need to solder the 4/5 pins on the mini-usb end though.

Oh...and the picture is wrong.

pr5owner

19th June 2007, 09:36 PM

yeah i can charge via usb (and play off the SD card at the same time)

its called plugging in a regular usb cable into my USB deck (JVCKD-G820)

i can also plug my Meizu M6 into the deck, have it read and play mp3s from usb storage and charge the battery

i have also tried using a card reader and it WORKS! however it will only see the first card plugged in, you cannot hot swap, but you can cold swap (unplug usb cable, swap cards, plug cable back in)

sunstorm

19th August 2007, 08:36 PM

Is there a registry hack which can do this job?

Or have a more elegant solution surfaced?

gladman

30th August 2007, 07:56 PM

seems data sessions dont stop the charging, just phone use.

KarmaNP

30th August 2007, 09:38 PM

Products that I bought from Gomadic have been excellent.

Since I have Hermes and Universal, I can charge them both using the same charger at the same time, using the dual tips.

Hi,

I'm looking for an off the shelf solution that will charge both my Vario II and my bluetooth gps (uses a round yellow connector which I believe is a 4mm).

Do you think this charger will work correctly without any modifications:

http://www.gomadic.com/t-mobile-mda-vario-ii-double-car-charger.html

Also anyone know if there's a similar product available in the UK?

Thanks

Elliot

amm009uk

6th September 2007, 04:57 PM

this solved all my car charging problems on the imate jasjam...http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=148124

Capt Fiero

9th September 2007, 09:39 PM

Well I just bought a charger from Ebay, called an Elite. Has a nice LCD Screen on the charger body. Note the link is not to the auction I won, but to a similar auction. I really wish I would have found this link before I went and tossed 20 bucks out for the charger and shipping, I am betting my Branded Motorola Charger will work now. It would not charge before. I will go down to the car and check it and see if it works, then report back. http://cgi.ebay.ca/ELITE-CAR-CHARGER-FOR-T-MOBILE-WING-HTC-HERALD-P4350_W0QQitemZ290158947991QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3519 3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

We also bought one of the 3 in 1 cable adapters, which I am hoping works with the TYTN so I can jack the audio line into my Car Stereo. (My car stereo is an older MP3 deck that only reads CD MP3's and not DVD MP3's so car can only do 700mb per disc. It will be nice having several gig at my disposal.

Again note link is to the same item I bought, just not the same auction.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/3-in-1-USB-Adapter-Converter-for-HTC-Trinity-P3600-TYTN_W0QQitemZ170147398368QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15040 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Capt Fiero

9th September 2007, 10:23 PM

Well SOB. When I first bought my TYTN, I tried the charger and it did not work. Ok no biggie have to buy a new charger. Well then I found this forum and learned about installing new Roms and such. So I started installing Roms and radio's and having fun. Then I cam across this thread and wanted to see if the reset trick would work with my phone. I just went outside to my car, plugged in the charger to the car,then plugged in the phone to the charger and it instantly started charging.

Not sure why it works now, but I tried pulling the charger from the socket, tried ignition on/off, no matter what I did, it still charged perfectly.

I am not sure if it was the update to WM6 Black Satin Or a radio flash (don't see how a radio flash would have changed anything) But none the less my old charger now works on the HTC TYTN just like it was meant for it.

For the Record

Rom Version Black Satin
Rom Date 07/10/07
Radio Version 1.43.00.00

Model No: Herm200

Any other info that could be useful just let me know and I will post it up.

Dan.308

9th September 2007, 11:06 PM

HTC's own support forum directs you to another post on XDA: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=277742&page=3.

It explains the reason why some aftermarket charges do not work and how to fix it. Worked great for me on a charging cradle I bought for the car.

Entropy512

9th September 2007, 11:46 PM

Hi,

I am using a car charger that comes with holux GPSr with the following specs written on it.

Model: CC-0103
INPUT: 12V - 24V
OUTPUT: DC 5.0V 850mA

got it together with holux GPSr and it could charge with any of the usb connect i have, products tested:
1) dopod 838pro (charge it as i was driving in GPS navigation mode
2) motorola V3 razr
3) Holux GPSr)

Hope this help.

Yup. My Holux charging cable works for my Holux GPSlim236 and for my AT&T 8525. (This is why Holux says that cable cannot be used to connect the unit to a PC, only for charging.)

Boxwave sent both a "charge only" and a "charge from PC and sync" cable when I ordered their MiniSync.

gladman

13th September 2007, 03:23 AM

Great info, now, is there a car charger for the Tytn that someone can link to that one can order easily here in Canada?

Capt Fiero

13th September 2007, 04:36 AM

If you want local pick up, you can always just hit up your Bell or Telus store. (not sure if you even have Telus where you are at)

I had to go to like 6 diffrent stores, but I did find an HTC Branded car charger for $39 CDN.

mklein

28th September 2007, 06:41 AM

Why would a JAVOedge charge cable NOT charge my 8525 but charge my friend's 8525?

A Boxwave charge cable (bundled with sync/charge cable for pc) works just fine.

Boxwave version works for my S9, 820, 8525, Holux.

JAVOedge won't work with S9/820 or my 8525 (but my buddies).

Anybody know how to get a USB breakout box? Googling I find nothing.

Conversations in this thread indicate "crappy chargers"...but the culprit seems to be the wiring. I have this problem with JAVOedge cable on a powered usb hub, usb battery pack, DC/USB car charger and usb wall/ac chargers. These all can't be garbage.

ralfmouth

28th September 2007, 11:25 AM

This is a problem with the phone not the charger. I had this problem with my Vario II, I now have a Tytn II and it charges fine using the same car charger that would not work with my Vario. So I must conclude it is the phone and not the charger.

mybikegoes200

24th October 2007, 02:29 AM

First off - MANY thanks to the people that described the pin-position and jumping pins 4 and 5.

I had purchased 3 different chargers for my 8525 - and NONE would consistently work with the screen on. I tried the Cingular branded one, an eBay one, and one that was for my bluetooth GPS. I finally purchased a cradle-style car holder (eg http://cgi.ebay.com/CAR-MOUNT-HOLDER-CHARGER-KIT-for-AT-T-CINGULAR-HTC-8525_W0QQitemZ120173405527QQihZ002QQcategoryZ75447 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I took the cradle part apart (4 philips screws) - and found the USB-mini connector hot-glued through the plastic... I gently pry with a flat blade screw driver and it was loose... I then carefully pried out the hot glue from the pin-connector side and using a multi-tester figured out where pins 4 and 5 were.. I made a small (very small) jumper out of some 30ga wire and soldered the jumper. I put a dab of hot glue back over the wires to hold them in place, put the connector back through the plastic and re-hot-glued it in place, screwed it back together - and VOILA - it WORKS.

The bottom line - this has NOTHING to do with the chargers - those who say it's the cheap china chargers or whatever else - sorry, but you're wrong. The gentleman that described the pin 4 and 5 issue was absolutely correct. Don't waste your time with an overpriced charger merely because it "has more amps."

Capt Fiero

24th October 2007, 04:31 AM

Don't ask me to explain why, BUT for whatever reason, whenever I am running my TOMTOM software. I plug in the phone and the car charger works like a charm. Its hit and miss plugging it in while just sitting at the today screen. I bought an "Elite" smart car charger that has a nice LED Display to tell you when it is charging and how long it has been charging for. Which is nice as the Display on the charger turns from Blue to Orange when it starts charging and stays orange until finishs charging the battery.

Edit to insert pic from Auction.

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/73/73494/charger_instruction-02.jpg

icemantwilight

24th October 2007, 11:44 AM

The pin shorting thing has been known for about a year and isn't disputed.

The curious thing is; it's detected by software, not hardware. If you turn the phone off you can use any charger.

As someone mentioned, some applications fool it. Some roms also.

Who wants to hack this?

vasp2005

30th October 2007, 03:52 PM

Just to confirm - with that ROM - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=331623 Updated v1.5.2] FuN_KeY's ROM based on new 3.62ROM with 3G (OS 5.2.1622 18128.0.4.4)
Auto charging working with any adapter without any 4-5 wire mods. We just need to talk with cooker what hi did to fix that.

CorbieMessenger

30th December 2007, 04:52 AM

I know I'm digging up an old thread, but...

When I first bought my 8525 it charged off of the car charger for my Razr with no issues whatsoever. It continued to behave until I flashed Schaps 3.60a onto it. Then, the car charger stopped working, but charging off the computer and the wall charger (which came with the phone) worked perfectly. Resetting the phone would fix the problem, but it was too much a hassle and the battery life long enough I didn't care.

For some reason, the day before yesterday it started acting strangely with the wall charger. It acted like it wouldn't charge, and would take some effort to get it to finally start charging properly. Last two nights it's done this to me. It still charges off the computer just fine, no hesitation. I flashed Schaps 4.22 last night, and there was no change.

Just thought I'd toss my experience in as well, for further troubleshooting. I think it may be software, but not sure how to correct it. I'm not a programmer (though I wish I was).

gow1000

1st January 2008, 02:07 PM

query withdrawn

chipsxj

29th January 2008, 10:30 PM

I charge via usb using the car charger without any issue....really works quite well.

Bobro

31st January 2008, 09:06 PM

i have a problem with charging mine in the car, seems that i have to rev over 3,000 rpm before it kicks in charging my phone... it will stay charging after that but if its on and my car idles for a while it stops charging.

madman604

7th February 2008, 06:18 AM

mini USB cable
....___________
....I.....................I
....I.....................I
.../..1...2...3...4..5..\
./_______________\

1 VCC Red +5 VDC
2 D- White Data -
3 D+ Green Data +
4 Nothing
5 GND Black Ground

Solder cable 4 to cable 5.

nice image aaahh :D ....it took me over 5 min...

awesome pic, thanks.
took a dremel grinding disc to mine and cut a slot across the top. then used a narrow soldering iron to put a dab of solder onto pins 4 and 5 as far inside as i could (so not to get in the way of inserting int my phone). works like a charm.

now seeing as pin 4 is "supposed to be" unused for anything in any standard mini USB device, it won't damage any normal device will it? except for not being able to be used for Activesync for a PC?

liquidsilver

17th March 2008, 04:37 AM

I need to test this further, but it appears on the surface that my 3 in 1 adapter (HTC Audio+3.5mm+chargen'snych) may have this jumpered internally. I will report back on this after I have a chance to do a continuity test.

Sethomas

26th March 2008, 11:43 PM

Dear Wise Gentlemen of the Forum,

Thank you!

I have just aquired a 2nd hand SPV M3100 (to give the world of WM6 a try) and have been very impressed. I'm off to France on Saturday for 3 weeks and we're happily running Tomtom, Skype and Wififofum.

I've had no problems charging from mains or from USB whilst 'syncing' but could I charge from the car? Could I F~#=!! And as you can imagine, running the software above requires some charging.

I tried charging using the USB sync cable and a 12v USB charger/adapter to no avail. I don't want to have loads of different chargers (Bluetooth GPS, Bluetooth headset, Better half's Nokia, Kid's DVD player and my HTC) fouling the dash so I bought a 'Universal' charger kit from Maplin with all the required adaptors (and a some more if anyone wants them!). But again, no charge!:confused:

Then last Friday, searching on the problem, I found your Forum and joined immediately.

I then proceeded to (carefully) cut open the brand new mini USB adapter that came with the kit. It took some digging but in the 1st photo below you can see the result. Terminals 4 & 5 of the mini USB were infact connected with a resistor (I didn't find out the rating) presumably for Motorola charging.

Well, I'd come this far, so I cut the resistor out and soldered the 2 ends back together (photo no.2), stuck a bit of silicon in to seal it and then crimped and superglued the casings back together AND........ IT WORKS !!!! :D

(Doesn't look too bad either but then I wouldn't dream of passing it under the nose of a trained Maplin shop assistant!)

To anyone in doubt I can confirm, from my experience, that to charge some HTC devices from a power source that isn't also a data source, terminals 4 & 5 of the mini USB need to be shorted.

From this I am also assuming that the after market 'charging / syncing' kits on offer that use a USB sync cable to charge from USB mains / 12v adapters, can't or shouldn't work! Watch out if you're thinking of buying one!:eek:

77748

77749

Merci Beaucoup mes amis et au revoir.

liquidsilver

28th March 2008, 05:09 AM

I can now confirm that using the 3 in 1 headset adapters allows me to charge the TyTn with usb power sources as low as 500ma.

Power Adapter > std miniusb cable > 3 in 1 adapter > Tilt

The 3in1 adapter I'm using is this type: http://www.shopaws.com/store/usb-adapter-4816.html

I have tested this with four different power supplies, both wall outlet and car charger types.

Cheers!

CocheseUGA

30th March 2008, 12:31 PM

ZaJules

10th April 2008, 07:19 PM

Once again XDA saves the day
Did the usb pin solder mod on both my car chargers and now they both work perfectly.

Thanks to all involved

Jules

liquidsilver

10th April 2008, 08:45 PM

I've now tested my 8525 adapter (2 in 1) and my after market adapter (3in1 with standard headphone jack) and the pocketpctechs adapter. All three of them facilitate charging perfectly. I posted in another thread but will repeat the info here for those who are search challenged:

From my personal experience, testing, and reading on these forums, it appears that there are three conditions that need to be satisfied for reliable use of the USB port:

First - The Mechanical Fit
Standard mini-USB connectors DO NOT fit the same as the HTC extended USB implementation. To address this, I use the HTC signal splitter (headphone+charger/sync) on almost all standard USB cables for charging. It's fully compliant with the HTC in all ways and has added benefits. (see below)

Second - Pin out
The charging circuit in the Tilt (and others) can be finicky with regard to whether or not it works using a standard USB cable. The HTC splitter solves that and allows slow charging from virtually any USB compliant source. I also have the adapter from http://www.pocketpctechs.com/ in my car that even allows you to select the fast charge or slow charge pin out via a switch. (VERY COOL) This works great because I'm usually looking for the fast charge in the car. (Note... fast charge is disabled when transferring data via USB) ADDITION: You can manually alter the pin out by shorting pins 4-5 in the mini-usb connector but the adapters are easier.

Third - Electrical Spec
Voltage is 5V for all USB outputs. Spikes generated in a car are pretty tough to transmit past the step down circuit/ic in the auto USB power adapters. I have never heard of a device being damaged by a spike from the car via one of these adapters. The chip itself would fail to open before frying the USB power client (aka the Phone).
Current draw for these phones is 0.5A for slow charging and around 1A+ for fast charging. This is determined by the pin out of the cable you are using. Slow charge is the default on all data type cables. Some cables sold as "charging cables" enable the fast charge. (The PPC Techs cable has the switch to do this) I recommend using at least 750mA chargers to allow the phone to have enough current to run the GPS, bluetooth, etc with the screen brightness turned up and still have a small excess trickle to charge the battery.

I hope this summary helps a bit.

zamorasf

20th April 2008, 02:43 PM

It has something to do with the wire ring of the mini usb connector
normally only the red and black wire are connected, i have build my own car charger from a 12V Charger for the bluetooth earphone and soldered the white and black wire together white is the ground for the data communication.
For me it workt

liquidsilver

20th April 2008, 08:40 PM

You are correct. Shorting pin 4 to pin 5 will on the mini-usb connection will always put it in charging mode. I think most folks are more comfortable doing that with an adapter than by breaking open the connector and soldering. If you go that route with a USB cable, be sure to mark the cable so that you don't try to use it for data possibly damage other devices.

Cheers!

eventnick

23rd September 2009, 03:06 AM

EDIT : Oh Thank God, SOFTWARE SOLVED WITH XDADev_BatFix.CAB
Gentleman,

I know I'm reviving an oldie. And please dont post here that you did x whatever to your cable or you bought x whatever charger... The solution is well known and documented in that regard.

I am interested in knowing if there is a software fix for this as many have pointed out some ROMS do not have this issue. I do not want to tear apart a bunch of cables and I also want to be able to charge of a generic usb or someone elses USB charger if a modified cable is not available. . Plus mine sits in a cradle so that really doesn't help me. A software fix would be much more elegant.

Thoughts? Has this been addressed already?

Thank you,
E.

I found this cab file fix, but only for WM5.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=290748

I have WM6 any solutions?

YES XDADev_BatFix.CAB SOLVED THE PROBLEM. Stop cutting up cables. ;)