Vario II Touch Screen goes off :(

[wundis]

Hello
I bought mine Vario II (with CoPilot) just 8 days ago, so I've enjoyed it quite a lot for the past days :rolleyes:
yet .. ~30 hours ago I found out that the touch screen was not responding at all .. well restart did not help, getting the battery out and putting it back again didn't help too ... I tried to do EVERYTHING with the thing ... starting with restoring factory settings (all the data! :mad: ) , ending with browsing the forums for common failures ...
Finally I ended up with the very start page where the Vario II asks for tapping the screen (irony huh ?) to start setting it up ..
Since I was not able to make it work again (the whole thing seemed to be working fine ... just the touch screen ... ) so I brought it to the local T-Mobile shop today in the morning.. guess what, the guy at the shop just removed the battery and put it back again (I've done that XXX times during the night) AND IT STARTED WORKING again ... I couldn't understand anything there, felt really lame :confused:
anyway after I've left the shop and used it for quite a bit it started again .. now I've kind of figured it out .. when I'm using the device actively (the temp raises) and it starts at the top right corner of the screen .. the touch screen just flickers there and then after a minute or so it doesn't respond at all any more .. if I just put it away and don't use it - the screen responds again after some time ...
NOW finally :) the question is: has anyone had any problems with Vario II like I do? I ought to think that it is a somewhat faulty device that I've got (it hasn't been physically damaged)
PS the touch-screen gets stagnant faster with bigger programs (CoPilot, Skype, etc...) and it takes some time to get stuck with just using the phone...
btw I've put a temperature thingy in the device - it shows that the battery temp is at 42 C . Isn't that a bit too much ?
yeah and how do I figure out what version it is ? I mean the S/N that is mentioned here ( http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_Problems )
?

[tadzio]

anyway after I've left the shop and used it for quite a bit it started again .. now I've kind of figured it out .. when I'm using the device actively (the temp raises) and it starts at the top right corner of the screen .. the touch screen just flickers there and then after a minute or so it doesn't respond at all any more .. if I just put it away and don't use it - the screen responds again after some time ...
NOW finally :) the question is: has anyone had any problems with Vario II like I do? I ought to think that it is a somewhat faulty device that I've got (it hasn't been physically damaged)


Yes, one of my Hermes' had the exact same problem - touch screen malfunction starting at the upper right corner when temperature rose. The usual tricks to solve the screen alignment problem (loosening the screws, removing the gasket with a stripe of a business card) didn't help at all. I returned the device and got a new one.


yeah and how do I figure out what version it is ? I mean the S/N that is mentioned here ( http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_Problems )
?

It's printed on the box (at least of an O2 Trion) and on the sticker underneath the battery. Just look for the S/N starting with HTC6xx... but "our" defect is not the normal SA problem, it seems to be much rarer and not described in the Wiki.

Cheers
Daniel

[wundis]

Thank you so much for the answer Daniel, I'll get them to change it tomorrow.

[Vrobenmat]

I have exactly the same problem with my TyTN. In the morning, after the phone has been off all night, the touchscreen works for maybe 30mins, then the phone warms up and the screen ceases functioning. Bizarre though - I got the phone about two weeks ago - the screen worked fine (i.e. under all temp. conditions) for about 7 days, then it decided to crap out. Tried all the usual SA type solutions - as you guys noted above they didn't work. Gonna have to go back to the shop and get it replaced :-(

Oh, nearly forgot, s/n is HT632

One other thing I noticed (not sure if this is normal behavior or if it started after the touchscreen borked) - When the phone is active (i.e. not locked or in standby,) the top status leds (wifi, bluetooth, gsm) don't flash. Once the device is put in standby (i.e. tapping the power button) they start flashing again. Like I said, not sure if this is normal or if its related to the touchscreen going.

[tadzio]

One other thing I noticed (not sure if this is normal behavior or if it started after the touchscreen borked) - When the phone is active (i.e. not locked or in standby,) the top status leds (wifi, bluetooth, gsm) don't flash.

This is definitely not normal. But it's an interesting observation. If the TyTN were a car, I'd say there's a bad ground connection somewhere. :-)

Try a hard reset, and if that doesn't solve the problem, have it exchanged. (I very much doubt that a hard reset will help, but at least here customer service refuses to exchange a device before you tried a hard reset. :-))

Cheers
Daniel

[Vrobenmat]

Hard reset borked even more. Could't get past the touch screen calibration. Phone is now in the freezer to cool down - hopefully the touch screen will work long enough so I can get past the calibration :rolleyes:

*EDIT* Just got it out the freezer (nice and cold now.) Hard reset, got through the calibration, everything ok for about 10 mins. LED's flashing with backlight on and touchscreen working. Then - touchscreen non-responsive at exactly the same time the status LED's cut out. I'm hypothesising that there's some kind of electrical short between the circuitry for the touchpad and the status LED's - it shorts as the devices temperature rises and (i guess) some of the materials expand and come into contact with each other. Since I don't want to void my warranty in case I have to take the phone back to the store, I haven't opened it up to confirm this. Has anyone had a detailed look at the connections at the top of the screen and around the status LED's to see if my explanation is at least possible? (then I might open it up and see if I can insulate the connections.)

[Rare]

Yes, one of my Hermes' had the exact same problem - touch screen malfunction starting at the upper right corner when temperature rose. The usual tricks to solve the screen alignment problem (loosening the screws, removing the gasket with a stripe of a business card) didn't help at all. I returned the device and got a new one.



It's printed on the box (at least of an O2 Trion) and on the sticker underneath the battery. Just look for the S/N starting with HTC6xx... but "our" defect is not the normal SA problem, it seems to be much rarer and not described in the Wiki.

Cheers
Daniel

:confused: I have the exact same problem!!
Two additional points :
1) my device screen will not switch off automaticaly and will stay on for ever unless I switch it off
2) When the issue manifests itself for the first time the device would automaticaly go back to the today screen like if the OK button would have been pressed many time or ... was stuck!!

That's my second Tytn device the first one had the SA defect.

I was so happy when I got my new one because the S/N showed HTC637XXX but sounds like a new issue even though I'm pretty convince that that the SA issue is not far from being related to this one.

:mad: :mad:

My device SPV3100 HERM100

[wundis]

Hello lads,
Absolutely everything you've posted seems to be happening to my device.
Now the touch screen fails to respond even if it's cold (been lying on the bed for 5 hours doing nothing at all .. ). damn... seems like I'll have to ask the local shop to get me a free portable refrigerator for the thing to work properly :)
HT645

[MikeChannon]

Hard reset borked even more. Could't get past the touch screen calibration. Phone is now in the freezer to cool down - hopefully the touch screen will work long enough so I can get past the calibration :rolleyes:

*EDIT* Just got it out the freezer (nice and cold now.) Hard reset, got through the calibration, everything ok for about 10 mins. LED's flashing with backlight on and touchscreen working. Then - touchscreen non-responsive at exactly the same time the status LED's cut out. I'm hypothesising that there's some kind of electrical short between the circuitry for the touchpad and the status LED's - it shorts as the devices temperature rises and (i guess) some of the materials expand and come into contact with each other. Since I don't want to void my warranty in case I have to take the phone back to the store, I haven't opened it up to confirm this. Has anyone had a detailed look at the connections at the top of the screen and around the status LED's to see if my explanation is at least possible? (then I might open it up and see if I can insulate the connections.)

Might get a chance to have an internal look tomorrow. From memory, and can't remember if the Wiki or Japanese dismantling site shows this, but I recall only a single mylar ribbon cable coming from screen area through to main board. There are if memory serves push in multi connectors from the bottom hard keypad and from front camera board (inc LEDs) to the muti ribbon cable on the back of the screen. Thus, simply put the screen, camera,hard phone keys all connect at the back of the screen to a single multi ribbon cable that goes to main board. Possibility then of a short with digitizer is at least possible. Of course digitizers are suceptible to current leakage and field interference so would not have to be an actual physical contact but could just be a close proximity issue.

Mike

[microft]

... I've been thinking about repalcing the display and the touchscreen. But now, considering that it is a HW issue, I can only replace these two things. If the bug is in the module above the screen (statur leds and camera) or related to the wireing at the back of the screen, it won't get rid of the problem. On the other hand, if it is a problem with the screen getting too hot, then I'm on the right track...

Has anyone tried this yet?
I'll try to call HTC on monday, maybe they know where the bug is.

HTC is not able or not willing to share what they know about the problem...

[ezbook]

Hello, they excuse my English, I am possessor of a TYNT and I am with he himself problem that you, the problem is a failure of weld in the processador, when it reaches certain temperature fails and cooling it or pressing strongly on the processor it lets fail.
Greetings.

[MikeChannon]

Hello, they excuse my English, I am possessor of a TYNT and I am with he himself problem that you, the problem is a failure of weld in the processador, when it reaches certain temperature fails and cooling it or pressing strongly on the processor it lets fail.
Greetings.There may well be truth in what you say, I too believe it is something similar in some cases.

Do you have any proof of your suggestion. Can you provide pics or a diagram of the solder point you mean??

Mike

[microft]

...sorry, don't think so.
It's just that this bug occurs after using a device for months, isn't it?
Now, the first two weeks I installed all kind of programs using the wireless LAN almost permanently. My Hermes was never as "hot" as during its first two weeks. And what about the sliding-out of the keyboard? Doesn’t it always start there? This just doesn't sound right, does it?
Just received an email from someone who drew my attention to the ribbon cable connecting the upper and the lower part. What if there is a short one due to the plastic scratching the cable and then... who knows?
However, I do not disagree as far as the temp is concerned. Therefore, I'll put my Hermes on ice and see how long it does things right...
And still, there is no chance that it is related to the processor. If the processors ALU is getting too hot the entire device would be effected, wouldn’t it?
Anyways, I'm determined to find out what it is!

++ I just found a very peculiar post in the WIZARD forum. It was about some top-side buttons that kept pressing
++ without even touching… Opening the assigned programs over and over again. Odd, isn’t it?
++ That’s a HTC device AND has a sliding keyboard with a ribbon cable as a connector…
++ Yet, it operates with a different processor on a different main board.
++
++ Still blaming the processor?

[MikeChannon]

...sorry, don't think so.
It's just that this bug occurs after using a device for months, isn't it?
Now, the first two weeks I installed all kind of programs using the wireless LAN almost permanently. My Hermes was never as "hot" as during its first two weeks. And what about the sliding-out of the keyboard? Doesn’t it always start there? This just doesn't sound right, does it?
Just received an email from someone who drew my attention to the ribbon cable connecting the upper and the lower part. What if there is a short one due to the plastic scratching the cable and then... who knows?
However, I do not disagree as far as the temp is concerned. Therefore, I'll put my Hermes on ice and see how long it does things right...
And still, there is no chance that it is related to the processor. If the processors ALU is getting too hot the entire device would be effected, wouldn’t it?
Anyways, I'm determined to find out what it is!

++ I just found a very peculiar post in the WIZARD forum. It was about some top-side buttons that kept pressing
++ without even touching… Opening the assigned programs over and over again. Odd, isn’t it?
++ That’s a HTC device AND has a sliding keyboard with a ribbon cable as a connector…
++ Yet, it operates with a different processor on a different main board.
++
++ Still blaming the processor?

And you are right too! if it appears that I am tending to agree with both above posts when on the face of it they disagree with each other it's because:

1
There are different manifestations of this problem - the causes may not always be the same
2
I agree it's NOT the processor and firmly believe it's hardware related. Of course it could be be a break (sometimes intermittent) in contact somewhere between screen and board or even a broken contact on the board (IN SOME CASES)
3
In other cases it's just pressure being put on the touch sensitive screen often at the very inconvenient top right corner that closes/minimises applications or opens start menu.

There has not been a reliable way to fix this issue other than device replacement. Replacing the screen has been notable for it's failure to resolve the issue.

Mike

[microft]

And you are right too! if it appears that I am tending to agree with both above posts when on the face of it they disagree with each other it's because:

1
There are different manifestations of this problem - the causes may not always be the same
2
I agree it's NOT the processor and firmly believe it's hardware related. Of course it could be be a break (sometimes intermittent) in contact somewhere between screen and board or even a broken contact on the board (IN SOME CASES)
3
In other cases it's just pressure being put on the touch sensitive screen often at the very inconvenient top right corner that closes/minimises applications or opens start menu.

There has not been a reliable way to fix this issue other than device replacement. Replacing the screen has been notable for it's failure to resolve the issue.

Mike

So do you think the bug is to be found on the main board at all?
I'm planning to replace some parts from the screen half. In fact there are just 3 possible error sources:
1) The lcd in combination with the digitalizer;
2) The ribbon cable connecting screen parts and keypad at bottom; and
3) The keypad at the bottom itself

The ribbon cable includs the electronics for the status leds as well as the EARphone. ;-)

Soon I will be on all three of the above parts and if the error ain't there... I'm going to be MAD.

Will keep you IN THE LOOP!

[ezbook]

Hello again, my conclusion is based on which I have disassembled my TYNT completely and I have connected it without the keyboard, of this form I have hoped to that it began to fail, later I have been moving and touching in any case the flat cable that unites the motherboard with the screen, the small circuit that takes built-in without obtaining results, single I have even obtained that it returns to work blowing air on the strongly pressed processor or on. Another observation is that if just ignited the machine and working correctly we applied single heat on the processor, begins to fail the touch screen. To my also is to me strange east failure since the temperature of the processor is not excessive when it fails, in fact desire firmly to be mistaken because there am lost the guarantee. Seguire investigating is matendre informed to you.
Greetings.

[MikeChannon]

So do you think the bug is to be found on the main board at all?
I'm planning to replace some parts from the screen half. In fact there are just 3 possible error sources:
1) The lcd in combination with the digitalizer;
May be a fault there, but if it's just a squeeze due to heat ? pressure it may not resolve the issue.

2) The ribbon cable connecting screen parts and keypad at bottom; and
3) The keypad at the bottom itself

The ribbon cable includs the electronics for the status leds as well as the microphone.

Soon I will be on all three of the above parts and if the error ain't there... I'm going to be MAD.

Will keep you IN THE LOOP!

I assume you mean earphone above as the microphone is on the mainboard.

Mike

[ezbook]

Again I have tested, with the disassembled machine totally, start up it, I hope to that the touch screen does not respond and I put my tynt in the refrigerator, after two minutes and without moving I touch it the screen and magic, works correctly hata that again coje the room temperature.
Greetings.

[MikeChannon]

Hello again, my conclusion is based on which I have disassembled my TYNT completely and I have connected it without the keyboard, of this form I have hoped to that it began to fail, later I have been moving and touching in any case the flat cable that unites the motherboard with the screen, the small circuit that takes built-in without obtaining results, single I have even obtained that it returns to work blowing air on the strongly pressed processor or on. Another observation is that if just ignited the machine and working correctly we applied single heat on the processor, begins to fail the touch screen. To my also is to me strange east failure since the temperature of the processor is not excessive when it fails, in fact desire firmly to be mistaken because there am lost the guarantee. Seguire investigating is matendre informed to you.
Greetings.

This is very interesting. When I said above it is not the processor, I meant it is not a software issue related to the processor. It can of course be a heat related problem with the processor. To summarise what you have found:


1
You have a device that when first started works OK
2
If you apply heat (but not much) to the processor it fails
3
If you apply pressure to the processor it works again
4
It begins working again when you blow on the processor or put it in the fridge.
5
If you move/press or ensure the ribbon cable has a firm contact - this has no effect.

Please post if any of the above is NOT correct ALSO please post which chip you are heating/pressing.

Cheers
Mike

[ezbook]

Hello again, everything is correct except point 3 really when this failing and you press on the then microprocessor the touch screen works correctly. Associate images.
Greetings.

EDIT by Mike. Point 3 has been edited in Mike's post to show the correct situation.

[MikeChannon]

Hello again, everything is correct except point 3 really when this failing and you press on the then microprocessor the touch screen works correctly. Associate images.
Greetings.

Ah OK. I will edit my post to show the correct info at point 3.
This is interesting information. So we can conclude that heating and cooling is making and breaking a contact somewhere on the Samsung processor. This is very difficult to fix. The motherboard is multi-layered - and so almost impossible to re solder.

Now perhaps a crude fix might be to glue (possible thermo conductive compound) a thin layer of material (rubber) onto the surface of the chip to keep pressure on the chip. i.e. to keep the chip squeezed between the board and the digitizer facing it. In other words to counteract the movement caused by heating up. Afterall, if pressing a finger on it works then perhaps keeping a costant pressure on it will work. Soldering would be much more satisfactory but probably impossible given the construction and board type. EDIT Not workable pressure required is too great for this to work.

Mike

[unicorn78]

Today, I faced the same proplem as you discribled in this thread. The touch-screen only works few minutes after turning off a long time or putting in a fridge. I thought that some welds or electrical circuit which could be break when they reach to a higher temperature. Many electrical goods were malfunction by this problem. Thanks Mike, Ezbook for your effort finding a solution.
If the fault due to a breaked weld under the processor, how to seal it by myself?

[MikeChannon]

Hi Unicorn 78
I think we cross posted. I have a suggestion in the one above yours - not very subtle but might just work?


I also thank Ezbook for his input here - certainly seems to narrow down the problem - usual note of caution though this is for the heat related issue manifested by the problem only appearing after some minutes of use.

Mike

[unicorn78]

Hello again, everything is correct except point 3 really when this failing and you press on the then microprocessor the touch screen works correctly. Associate images.
Greetings.

EDIT by Mike. Point 3 has been edited in Mike's post to show the correct situation.

I agree that some welds can split. But the method to find the slit is not accurate. If there is nothing propping under the main (at the position of the processor) when you press on the processor this can cause a around deformation. The breaked weld near there could be contact again.
And one thing we should care about is when the processor lost contact with mainboard it often brings about faults for whole system not only touch screen. So, one possible ability is the circuit from the touch-screen to the CPU splited some where.

[ezbook]

I have proven to press in the parts that surround to the processor and to try flex the plate mother without result, single when pressing the processor returns to work the touch screen. If Mike, I also have thought about putting glue but the pressure necessary to correct the problem in my case is excessive, makes lack press with 4 or 5 kg of force on the processor. Also I have thought to inject fluid fast glue like cyanocrilate underneath the processor when this this cold but I am scared, because at the moment pda is totally functional although without touch screen. If I am mistaken I can remain without anything. I continue investigating but without risks. Thanks for your support. Greetings.

[MikeChannon]

I have proven to press in the parts that surround to the processor and to try flex the plate mother without result, single when pressing the processor returns to work the touch screen. If Mike, I also have thought about putting glue but the pressure necessary to correct the problem in my case is excessive, makes lack press with 4 or 5 kg of force on the processor. Also I have thought to inject fluid fast glue like cyanocrilate underneath the processor when this this cold but I am scared, because at the moment pda is totally functional although without touch screen. If I am mistaken I can remain without anything. I continue investigating but without risks. Thanks for your support. Greetings.

Mmmm that's a pity. I had not realised the pressure needed was so high. You are right at this stage not to try anything too drastic.

If nothing else this thread should be a warning that spending money on new screens / connectors / key pads etc may well be a waste of money if you have the heat related problem!!!

Mike

[microft]

When touching the processor, wouldn't it cause/ease static as well? (Depending what else you are touching - device metal parts, ground, etc...)

It does not even have to be a "loose" connection mb<>processor, does it?
Now it would be VERY interesting to know if cooling the processor will ease the problem - know what I mean.
As for touching/pressing on the processor does ease the problem. Where do we have to cool to ease the problem? One could use pressurized air to cool the processor (here the fridge won’t do).

If it is a temperature related ground loop rather then a loose weld, I would feel much better after all.

BTW: Disconnecting the touch screen (of course) eliminates the problem. No more tapping…

[microft]

I have proven to press in the parts that surround to the processor and to try flex the plate mother without result, single when pressing the processor returns to work the touch screen. If Mike, I also have thought about putting glue but the pressure necessary to correct the problem in my case is excessive, makes lack press with 4 or 5 kg of force on the processor. Also I have thought to inject fluid fast glue like cyanocrilate underneath the processor when this this cold but I am scared, because at the moment pda is totally functional although without touch screen. If I am mistaken I can remain without anything. I continue investigating but without risks. Thanks for your support. Greetings.

Have you tried to touch the processor without pressing it? In other words to only putting your finger on the surface of the processor.
Maybe we do not need pressure or glue. Just a "soft" touch... The processor could have, for instance, a grounding problem. So anything that produces static could cause some problems.
Keep in mind that the touch screen consists of two layers of plastic charged with electricity > Now where could the static come from??? ;)

I could be worng as well and it is a loose weld, but what are the odds?

Keep up and do not brick your HTC ;)

[unicorn78]

Conclusion
1, We shouldn´t use glues to stick the CPU with mainboard except there are some conductive glues (or somethings..) which only react and stick on tin surface, other surface could be easy wash out.
2, In each opposite sides of the CPU try to find a position to make a small hole (large enough to fix a glasses screw). You should use a drill and drill two or may be four holes gently.
Put one or two metal bars (with a hole at each end) across the processor and use glasses screws to keep them pressed on the processor.
This is a formal method using for a computer processor. We can apply this to a pda processor.
Waiting for your good news.

[ezbook]

Thank you very much by the suggestions. I still want to investigate a little but, the problem also podria to come from the components located under the processor, in the other face of the plate, single is necessary to weld the terminals of the battery to its connector to be able to have access to the components with pda ignited. When it has free moments it will verify it. Greetings.

[MikeChannon]

Thank you very much by the suggestions. I still want to investigate a little but, the problem also podria to come from the components located under the processor, in the other face of the plate, single is necessary to weld the terminals of the battery to its connector to be able to have access to the components with pda ignited. When it has free moments it will verify it. Greetings.

Yes, I worry about the solution given above. The board is multilayered and I'm not sure how you could be sure the screws are not passing through connections between the layers.

Mike

[unicorn78]

I have proven to press in the parts that surround to the processor and to try flex the plate mother without result, single when pressing the processor returns to work the touch screen. If Mike, I also have thought about putting glue but the pressure necessary to correct the problem in my case is excessive, makes lack press with 4 or 5 kg of force on the processor. Also I have thought to inject fluid fast glue like cyanocrilate underneath the processor when this this cold but I am scared, because at the moment pda is totally functional although without touch screen. If I am mistaken I can remain without anything. I continue investigating but without risks. Thanks for your support. Greetings.

I am considering between two methods.

[unicorn78]

Yes, I worry about the solution given above. The board is multilayered and I'm not sure how you could be sure the screws are not passing through connections between the layers.

Mike

You are right. But I think it is the most possible ability. I have many examinations until 08.06.2007 after that I will have time to open my Tytn and I will show you photos if I am successful.

[unicorn78]

I can not keep patience. So, I disassembled my phone, pressed the cpu but the touch-screen was still freeze.
In my case I think that the fault comed from the curcuit control touch screen signal.
But I don´t have a second phone so, I don´t know display or mainboard causes the fault.

[microft]

I can not keep patience. So, I disassembled my phone, pressed the cpu but the touch-screen was still freeze.
In my case I think that the fault comed from the curcuit control touch screen signal.
But I don´t have a second phone so, I don´t know display or mainboard causes the fault.

I studied a bit the processor schematics (2442). Well it incorporates all major interfaces, and this could be a problem. I still hope it is not the processor in the first place or the mb.
But: If the processor is not attached properly to the mb (e.g. measurements are not 100% accurate), this could led to some kind of tension. If, due to the temperature up-and-downs and this tension in the processor, the material wears off, a part of the processor could break off. Now why is the touch screen affected? The processor has an interface built into to handle the touch screen irqs and info. This interface may always (or in most cases) be affected because either temperature fluctuations or structural inaccuracy is located right there.

I know, I know. But I am not pulling this out of my nose. A broken weld would always be at the same location if causing the same effect (the processor doesn’t have that many pins - actually fewer than I thought). Pressing the processor would always lead to the same results. If this is caused by temperature differences we are talking about a few micros, not more (at the size of the processor, an increase of 20° would cause it to expand not more than 5 micro meters). A weld should have contact far beyond those 5 micros. What actually happens is that if one presses on the processor nothing happens because the crack is slightly different.

Hopefully I am wrong and the processor is perfectly fine and it’s just a weld or something else. No quiero comprarlo de nuevo, así ya me fijo en otros :(

[unicorn78]

I studied a bit the processor schematics (2442). Well it incorporates all major interfaces, and this could be a problem. I still hope it is not the processor in the first place or the mb.
But: If the processor is not attached properly to the mb (e.g. measurements are not 100% accurate), this could led to some kind of tension. If, due to the temperature up-and-downs and this tension in the processor, the material wears off, a part of the processor could break off. Now why is the touch screen affected? The processor has an interface built into to handle the touch screen irqs and info. This interface may always (or in most cases) be affected because either temperature fluctuations or structural inaccuracy is located right there.

I know, I know. But I am not pulling this out of my nose. A broken weld would always be at the same location if causing the same effect (the processor doesn’t have that many pins - actually fewer than I thought). Pressing the processor would always lead to the same results. If this is caused by temperature differences we are talking about a few micros, not more (at the size of the processor, an increase of 20° would cause it to expand not more than 5 micro meters). A weld should have contact far beyond those 5 micros. What actually happens is that if one presses on the processor nothing happens because the crack is slightly different.

Hopefully I am wrong and the processor is perfectly fine and it’s just a weld or something else. No quiero comprarlo de nuevo, así ya me fijo en otros :(

It seems there is no solution.
I hope the touch-screen is fault. Now, my phone doesn't respond even after putting it in a fridge. I will send it for service. Do you know how much does it cost (in USA or UK or Europe)? Orange doesn´t have any branch in the Czech Republic.
Anyone knows how to inactivate the alignment function of a ROM. First I want to update a new rom but I am afraid that I can not pass this step.

[MikeChannon]

It seems there is no solution.
I hope the touch-screen is fault. Now, my phone doesn't respond even after putting it in a fridge. I will send it for service. Do you know how much does it cost (in USA or UK or Europe)? Orange doesn´t have any branch in the Czech Republic.
Anyone knows how to inactivate the alignment function of a ROM. First I want to update a new rom but I am afraid that I can not pass this step.

In the end I think you are right. There may be unique fixes for particular devices but no easy solution that could be recommended to people generally.Sadly I think we're back to the advice I have often given that is get a replacement device if at all possible. If sending it for repair make sure you emphasise that the problem only shows when the device is warmed up AND that you would like it thoroughly tested before being returned. I have seen a couple of examples where the screen and ribbon connectors have been replaced but the problem reappeared almost straight away. I did see one case where the main board was replaced and the problem was cured - Expensive if you have no warranty. Worth checking out "consumer rights" - in UK for example goods must be of merchandisable quality and must be durable enough to last a "reasonable" time without having to pay for repairs due to normal usage. I would argue that this is a known fault in sevveral cases and that manufacturers or the people selling the devices should be liable for major repair (board replacement) for at least 1 year. Many countries have consumer rights laws giving rights to repair beyond the standard warranty period.

Mike

[unicorn78]

In the end I think you are right. There may be unique fixes for particular devices but no easy solution that could be recommended to people generally.Sadly I think we're back to the advice I have often given that is get a replacement device if at all possible. If sending it for repair make sure you emphasise that the problem only shows when the device is warmed up AND that you would like it thoroughly tested before being returned. I have seen a couple of examples where the screen and ribbon connectors have been replaced but the problem reappeared almost straight away. I did see one case where the main board was replaced and the problem was cured - Expensive if you have no warranty. Worth checking out "consumer rights" - in UK for example goods must be of merchandisable quality and must be durable enough to last a "reasonable" time without having to pay for repairs due to normal usage. I would argue that this is a known fault in sevveral cases and that manufacturers or the people selling the devices should be liable for major repair (board replacement) for at least 1 year. Many countries have consumer rights laws giving rights to repair beyond the standard warranty period.

Mike

Thanks Mike for your information. My phone is more than one year old. I hope the service costs 1/2 or 1/3 price of a new one.

[ezbook]

Hello again to all, I believe that I have the good news for all. After several days of relaxation I have returned to work in my Hermes. First tested was to put it dull in the furnace from the kitchen to about a 40-50 degrees Celsius during 15 minutes, the result was surprising, beginning perfectly and touch screen failure to the 10 minutes as always. this test has caused that it discards the failure by temperature of the processor. The second test has been to return to disassemble it completely and to disconnect the flat cable unites the screen to a small rectangular circuit, later to place a piece of protector of screen of tactile between the yellow adhesive and the circuit, to verify the operation with the machine disassembled during 15 minutes and when seeing that it did not fail I return it to mount completely. Results: after 1 hour working with normality the failure of the touch screen has not returned to appear. We will give a little but of time to them test and tomorrow I confirm to you if it has worked. I touch wood.
Greetings.

[evilgabbie]

ezbook can you please describe your problem and solution more throughly ?

are you saying by reflowing the board it didn't solve the problem but istead you had to stick something ?

[conteabba]

this test has caused that it discards the failure by temperature of the processor. The second test has been to return to disassemble it completely and to disconnect the flat cable unites the screen to a small rectangular circuit, later to place a piece of protector of screen of tactile between the yellow adhesive and the circuit, to verify the operation with the machine disassembled during 15 minutes and when seeing that it did not fail I return it to mount completely. Results: after 1 hour working with normality the failure of the touch screen HAS NOT RETURNED to appear. We will give a little but of time to them test and tomorrow I confirm to you if it has worked. I touch wood.
Greetings.[/QUOTE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, my hermes have same problem, in yours is still reappeared or you have definitively resolved it?
Can you give more details about your test? It could be a gret thing! Thanks.

[Meteo]

My 8525 started to exhibit the same symptoms. I hope a solution comes out soon. This is not good at all. i might switch back to palm if stuff like this continues to happen.

edit:

the problem is definitely related to heat. I just took it out of the freezer after it stopped working and the touch screen came back to life. Unfortunatly a freezer is not portable...

it seems to do the same thing everytime. First it works
then as it warms up, it seems there are "ghost" taps on the screen. eg when I open the start menu, it closes almost immediatly
finally, the screen dies

[Meteo]

Hello again to all, I believe that I have the good news for all. After several days of relaxation I have returned to work in my Hermes. First tested was to put it dull in the furnace from the kitchen to about a 40-50 degrees Celsius during 15 minutes, the result was surprising, beginning perfectly and touch screen failure to the 10 minutes as always. this test has caused that it discards the failure by temperature of the processor. The second test has been to return to disassemble it completely and to disconnect the flat cable unites the screen to a small rectangular circuit, later to place a piece of protector of screen of tactile between the yellow adhesive and the circuit, to verify the operation with the machine disassembled during 15 minutes and when seeing that it did not fail I return it to mount completely. Results: after 1 hour working with normality the failure of the touch screen has not returned to appear. We will give a little but of time to them test and tomorrow I confirm to you if it has worked. I touch wood.
Greetings.


Thats great. can you describe more of the method used to resolve the problem? what is the "place a piece of protector of screen of tactile between the yellow adhesive and the circuit"

I dont understand that part

[ezbook]

Hello again to the unfortunate possessors of a TYTN.
No, my tytn I let work after 2 hours, which I anger much to me and to me it put nervous.
The clearing again and verifying with a multimeter the different voltages from the plate and sucedio the worse thing, I cause a short circuit that I leave my I telephone completely dead.
It disappoints to me, it keeps I telephone in a drawer and I was myself of vacations with my BlueAngel that always has worked correctly.
But not you perdais the hope, I do not leave so easily, single she needed to relax a little to me and to meditate on the situation.
From return of the vacations I have returned to revive my tytn, analyzing what single me sucedio podia to be or a fuse of plate or a track, then I have given with the fuse at issue, once repaired my tytn has returned to the life.
At the moment and for 30 minutes my tynt has been working correctly, we will see how long lasts.
Meditating during the vacations I have reached several conclusions:
1 - It is not temperature problem
2 - It is not problem of welds
3 - It is not problem of the processor
4 - it is not problem of the printed circuit
5 - It is not problem of the touch screen
6 - Finally it is a CHEMICAL problem.
To this it completes conclusion I have arrived since I telephone put under cold or extreme heat responds also well, the touch screen have changed some to it and the problem has not been solved, but but the disquieting thing is… Because whichever but days this unemployed and without feeding nor battery when returning has it to start up holds but time without failing?
My answer: An electronic component to which the more electricity it circulates around he himself varies its value and induces to a failure, this single component can be a resistance or a condenser, this same one must comprise of the zone of feeding, because when letting work the touch screen it is observed that I telephone goes much more slow and you accustom the battery is warmed up but of the normal thing what indicates that influences to other components, when pressing the plate that component can undergo a very slight flexion reason why sometimes when pressing works correctly, like with the contractions and expansions by extreme temperatures.
Perhaps, I am not digressing myself much but my next sera objective to construct milimetricas ends to me of multimeter to verify the voltages of the zone of feeding when I telephone correctly works and to return to verify them when it fails.

I do not stop in my persistence but I have remembered that the patience is the mother of science.

Tendre informed to you.

Greetings.

[ezbook]

After 1 hour it continues working.

It forgets me to comment another one of the tests that I did when showing preference for the failure of chemical origin, this was to submerge to the motherboard in I eliminate used in electronics for cleaning of electronic circuits. With it I could discard that the protective resin bath of the circuit applied in makes became conductor with the passage of time.

Greetings.

[Meteo]

could you please get a translator to post the way you fixed the problem. I cannot understand google translate :(

[Vrobenmat]

I think what he is getting at is that HTC used poor quality components (most likely resistors or capacitors.) Capacitors are especially sensitive to build material quality, and can fail randomly over time due to chemical imbalances in the dielectric material varying the capacitance. This can cause all sorts of weird things to happen to your device.
A case in point - PC motherboard manufacturors used lots of bad quality capacitors for a while ('05-'06,) leading to recalls and many warranty claims (see badcaps.net for more info.)
The only way to fix this is to physically replace the capacitors with higher quality ones.
This is only a theory, but it fits the observed modes of failure and is relatively common in the consumer electronics industry.
HTC people (if you read this,) take note!

[MikeChannon]

Ezbook may well be right - at least for a proportion of cases. It is certainly something to consider. However the "bottom line" is there is no fix that we know of that can be consistently applied. If you have a warranty use it and try to get a replacement NOT a repair job (as it is often not fixed or only lasts a day or two and comes back again).

If you have no warranty, about the best you could do is to lay hands on one being parted out (though obviously not for the same problem) and start swapping around the m/board etc. Repair is hardly worth it if it means a new m/board - the cost would be more than a second hand working device.

Mike

[default013]

First, let me say that I am absolutely amazed by the commitment of the people that visit this forum. I thank you so much for all of your hard work as I have come here to diagnose a problem, and because of all of your hard work all I simply have to do is open up my web browser to find out that my phone has a hardware defect.

As you all have given so much hard work to this issue, I would like to continue the effort by providing a record of my experience.

I bought a Cingular 8525 right when they first hit the market. That phone has lasted forever and has been great to me, however, it recently got confiscated as part of a security investigation! Well, as I am sure most of you would feel, I cannot live for months without it so I figured I'd buy a cheap replacement and E-Bay the old one off as soon as I got it. Well I did, I got a deal for a new in-box not-tampered-with 8525 for $400 bucks. Seems like an OK deal, and sure enough, the phone was new and appeared untouched. However, it was weird because I looked up the HTCXXX number on the WIKI page and it says that my number: HTC704 belongs to a VarioII phone? I don't know what a VarioII is, but mine is an 8525. Weird, ... But ... my phone also exhibits all of the issues found in this forum to a T. The upper left hand corner reacts when it gets too hot (somewhere around 85-90 degrees F +) and the start button starts flapping around. I can still use the rest of the screen but if it gets even hotter, the whole screen stops responding until I go and put it in front of the air conditioner or something. I've also found that sometimes if I have issues with it, if I squeeze the phone fairly hard, that it will begin to work again as well, which seems to verify the research you have done here.

Just wanted to provide my account and say much thanks. You guys rock.

[psthanh]

hix How can i repair it now? i hust open my fone. put mainboard in about 40 temp C and clean the mainboard but . it have the problem again.

[eraserbabyboy]

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=343646

[nikak]

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=343646
does this means, that this problem was already solved ?

when I'm using the device actively (the temp raises) and it starts at the top right corner of the screen .. the touch screen just flickers there and then after a minute or so it doesn't respond at all any more .. if I just put it away and don't use it - the screen responds again after some time ...

[eraserbabyboy]

does this means, that this problem was already solved ?

Look, I know that this battery is only memory battery, but miracle was happened to me and now my hermes working. Maybe it's not real and right answer for all situation in freeze screan, but in my case problem is solved.

[Micro_Tech]

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=343646

I tried this in my hermes,it doesn't solve touch screen respond :(
--------------------------
My findings in this problem:
if you want keep touch responding alive for more time(more than 2min) ,first get the battery out and putting it back,when the OK button (the "X" on top right) is being tapped continuously (without tapping it),now you must tap in bottom of screen, between calender and contacts and hold it for 30 second,the screen will responds again.

[hu0033]

My Hermes have Touchscreen completely non functional issues,
But the touch screen revivalI after replace three capacitances Volume 103(10nf) at painted red line in place .

[wywywywy]

So you saying these three capacitors were busted on your Hermes?

[Micro_Tech]

@ hu0033
do you had this problem?

when I'm using the device actively (the temp raises) and it starts at the top right corner of the screen .. the touch screen just flickers there and then after a minute or so it doesn't respond at all any more .. if I just put it away and don't use it - the screen responds again after some time ...

in your way ,this problem fixed?
replace three capacitances Volume 103(10np) at painted red line in place .

[hu0033]

@ hu0033
do you had this problem?



in your way ,this problem fixed?

My Hermes have this problem.

This way fixed the problem.


My Hermes is i-mate JASJAM SN:htc649

Touchscreen completely non functional when it heats up. Unclear why it heats up although seems to be triggered by using the phone or dataconnection (although not always), then upper right hand corner indicates continual press even though not pressed

[Micro_Tech]

thanks for your replay.
i will test this as soon as find smd size capacitances.
THANKS :)

[Sebi]

thanks for your replay.
i will test this as soon as find smd size capacitances.
THANKS :)

Any news about 10nF?

[Micro_Tech]

@ hu0033
do you used normal size capacitors or smd size ?
can you give us some photo from your hermes mainboard that replaced capacitors. :cool:

@ Sebi
I'm looking for smd size capacitors in 10nf,it's very hard to find them.
my friend told me he can prepare it in next week. :rolleyes:

[hu0033]

@ hu0033
do you used normal size capacitors or smd size ?
can you give us some photo from your hermes mainboard that replaced capacitors. :cool:

@ Sebi
I'm looking for smd size capacitors in 10nf,it's very hard to find them.
my friend told me he can prepare it in next week. :rolleyes:

I prepared Capacitor from wasted Other phone motherboard

Like the original capacitors

[Micro_Tech]

@ hu0033
Capacitor is removed from the motherboard to waste phones

Like the original capacitors
I haven't found your mean. :confused:
do you prepared capacitors from wasted hermes motherboard(Like the original capacitors) or bought new capacitors in 10nf volume ?
how do you found new capacitors must be in 10nf volume?

Please give us more detail.

[hu0033]

@ hu0033

I haven't found your mean. :confused:
do you prepared capacitors from wasted hermes motherboard(Like the original capacitors) or bought new capacitors in 10nf volume ?
how do you found new capacitors must be in 10nf volume?

Please give us more detail.

I prepared capacitors from wasted Other phone motherboard.

Yes must be in 10nf volume.

[Micro_Tech]

I replaced that three capacitors,Touchscreen issue doesn't solve.:(
BUT when i replace 40nf capacitor instead of 10nf, screen will switch off backlight automatically after seconds like a normal hermes.

[robvin]

I posted this reply in another thread, I hope it helps people reading this thread.

"I described this fault to my brother who repairs these phones and he told me that the heat related fault is exactly that.

There is an IC on PCB A (located under the directional keypad) that can form a dry solder joint when it warms up. That IC interfaces the touchscreen digitizer to the rest of the system.
If your unit is out of warranty, as mine was, this is user repairable, as long as you are experienced in working with SMD type components. It requires the re flowing of the solder on that IC using a heat gun. However I don't recommend this unless you really know what your doing.
I have sourced a replacement pcb myself and will be changing it when it arrives. Good luck guys."

[Micro_Tech]

Some people replaced their mainboard and problem solved.
I think there is some capacitors around lcd connector (on mainboard) that case this fault.
try to replace that three capacitors who hu0033 said.

[Mixa84]

I posted this reply in another thread, I hope it helps people reading this thread.

"I described this fault to my brother who repairs these phones and he told me that the heat related fault is exactly that.

There is an IC on PCB A (located under the directional keypad) that can form a dry solder joint when it warms up. That IC interfaces the touchscreen digitizer to the rest of the system.
If your unit is out of warranty, as mine was, this is user repairable, as long as you are experienced in working with SMD type components. It requires the re flowing of the solder on that IC using a heat gun. However I don't recommend this unless you really know what your doing.
I have sourced a replacement pcb myself and will be changing it when it arrives. Good luck guys."

Can you describe what IC exactly needs reflowing. I have a heat gun and I want to try it.
I have replaced the touch screen complete with a board with leds and buttons and it is still happening (the upper right corner). So I think that screen is not a problem definitely.

[Micro_Tech]

Can you describe what IC exactly needs reflowing. I have a heat gun and I want to try it.
I have replaced the touch screen complete with a board with leds and buttons and it is still happening (the upper right corner). So I think that screen is not a problem definitely.
do you changed that three capacitors? (hu0033 said in last page)

[Mixa84]

No I didn`t. I have another Hermes that is bricked, and I could take them from it, but I am not sure that is the problem. I will try it maybe!

[Micro_Tech]

No I didn`t. I have another Hermes that is bricked, and I could take them from it, but I am not sure that is the problem. I will try it maybe!

very nice you have a bricked and can replace these capacitors with original one.
I think this problem is electronically.

my finding in this problem are:
1-this cant be temperature problem,try to charge battery ,when battery is full and 100% your device is a little warm but touch screen work.
2-when i replaced the middle capacitor by 40nf instead of 10nf, screen will switch off backlight automatically after seconds like a normal hermes. after that i replaced with 80nf and touchscreen works, but after a minutes the touchscreen goes.
there is some capacitors or components around lcd connector (on mainboard) that case this fault.

as i know your last device bricked for radio fault.if it doesn't have touchscreen problem, try to change whole upper part(every thing after lcd connector on mainboard,like flat cable,lcd ,buttons,... without separating them) of your current device and bricked.

[Mixa84]

very nice you have a bricked and can replace these capacitors with original one.
I think this problem is electronically.

my finding in this problem are:
1-this cant be temperature problem,try to charge battery ,when battery is full and 100% your device is a little warm but touch screen work.
2-when i replaced the middle capacitor by 40nf instead of 10nf, screen will switch off backlight automatically after seconds like a normal hermes. after that i replaced with 80nf and touchscreen works, but after a minutes the touchscreen goes.
there is some capacitors or components around lcd connector (on mainboard) that case this fault.

as i know your last device bricked for radio fault.if it doesn't have touchscreen problem, try to change whole upper part(every thing after lcd connector on mainboard,like flat cable,lcd ,buttons,... without separating them) of your current device and bricked.

I already did the change of whole upper part, and there is still a problem. So I don`t suspect on touch screen any more, definitely touch and the components around are not the problem!

And now my conclusion is that it is either the problem with those capacitors you said or some IC that has to be re flowed to fix the broken weld. As I see you had problem with the baclight to go off. I don`t have these problems, on my hermes everything works (no backlight problem, no screen freeze) there is only the problem whit upper right corner. That is why I didn`t change the capacitors, because I think that is not the problem. I will do it if nothing else helps.
My opinion is that it is the heat problem, because I saw that when I load the processor (etc. with a divx movie) after 2-3 minutes the problem starts. And then when it cool`s off some time (not in a freezer, but just on room temperature) it is ok. Also when it is turn off completly for some time it works when it`s turn on and then after some time of using it starts. If I don`t use it then it doesn`t start. I noticed that if you just trun off the screen and then turn on after some time it also stop touching the upper right corener.

[Micro_Tech]

My opinion is that it is the heat problem, because I saw that when I load the processor (etc. with a divx movie) after 2-3 minutes the problem starts. And then when it cool`s off some time (not in a freezer, but just on room temperature) it is ok. Also when it is turn off completly for some time it works when it`s turn on and then after some time of using it starts. If I don`t use it then it doesn`t start. I noticed that if you just trun off the screen and then turn on after some time it also stop touching the upper right corener.
Two month ago I had your current problem,my device had wm5 and when i opened more than one program it started to closing whole windows(upper right corner started to tapping X or ok)and gone to start menu,then i tried to stop all programs, after 2-3 minutes the touchscreen doesn't react to my tapping well.i left out my device for 15 minute when a came back to device it worked ok until opening a program.i thought that is software fault,and installed wm6 to fix it.but after installing wm6 my device had backlight problem.i solved backlight problem in my way and my device doesn't have screen freeze problem ever.
Now we must have a fine device to compare and test main points voltage on mainboard.i just have one hermes and can't test this.if your bricked device just have radio problem, you can do this test.

[Mixa84]

Two month ago I had your current problem,my device had wm5 and when i opened more than one program it started to closing whole windows(upper right corner started to tapping X or ok)and gone to start menu,then i tried to stop all programs, after 2-3 minutes the touchscreen doesn't react to my tapping well.i left out my device for 15 minute when a came back to device it worked ok until opening a program.i thought that is software fault,and installed wm6 to fix it.but after installing wm6 my device had backlight problem.i solved backlight problem in my way and my device doesn't have screen freeze problem ever.
Now we must have a fine device to compare and test main points voltage on mainboard.i just have one hermes and can't test this.if your bricked device just have radio problem, you can do this test.
Irony is that now I don`t have torubles 2 days so far. Maybe it is because it`s cold, or maybe it is because there is a problem on some weld and it happenes random, phone flexing or similar.
My choice would be the re flowing. But I don`t know what IC, and I don`t want to re flow everything because of the risk of damaging something.
I saw in earliers posts that someone said that the processor could not be re weld. Why, if it is BGA it could be re flowed. Maybe they meant that it could not be weld with the wleding gun.

[Mixa84]

Ahhhhhhhh, I have jinxed it. The thing is that when it starts happening after some time tuch becomes totaly unresponssive. And there is another thing, it seems that when it`s tapping and not responding, the processor is at load because divx movies start skiping frames.
Many thoughts came cross my mind these days but every thing is just guessing. I can`t find what is the cause of the problem.
Another strange thing is that if I don`t keep it in my hand it is ok. I played divx movie for an half hour, and processor should be hot enough to produce the problem, but nothing. I must give it a another try to see if that was coincidence. On the one side the facts are leading to the processor and maybe some broken weld, but on the other side it also leads to the capacitors. I can say that the capacitors are the problem and when I disconnect the battery for some time the capacitors are empty and it doesn`t cause any problems, but then why there is a load on the processor???

[hu0033]

waiting......

[Micro_Tech]

And there is another thing, it seems that when it`s tapping and not responding, the processor is at load because divx movies start skiping frames.
I'd like to say, i have same this,device become more slow when it`s tapping and not responding.
I tested my device again for testing capacitors effect, when device become to not responding to tap, take battery out ,after waiting for 5 min, i manually discharged the capacitors.
after turned on device, it doesn't respond to my tapping (like last time) and nothing happened.this lead me to say there isn't just that three capacitors fault.
Confused!!Irony hah... but i'll keeping move forward :) .

Best way to find where this problem come, is point Voltage testing.
we must have a fine device to compare and test main points voltage on mainboard.
I think you can try this by your devices(with the same rom and radio), with a digital voltmeter by connecting one probe to Gnd of device(metal cover of partitions have Gnd) and another probe to main points (for example around lcd connector).Now you can compare this voltage (with your another device) to find where this problem come.
I think in this way every kind of problem can be found (capacitors or some IC that has to be re flowed to fix the broken weld).

@hu0033
thanks for replay. :)

[hu0033]

Robvin is right.Advanced power management chipset Qualcomm PM6650 to the rest of the system when it warms up，On-chip Smart Thermal Control system for over-temperature protection

[Mixa84]

This is my new discovery. I used the heat gun to re solder the samsung processor. And on the first try I didn`t want to heat it too much to avoid damaging the procesor and when I finished and power on the phone on screen appears one pixel that is like dead pixel. But it is not. After some time it fade and everything is ok. This last for some time and then it starts again.
It seems that the heat that was applied to the porcessor is affecting some component around and it is fixed for some time. Now I am almost sure that is some capacitor problem, but it is going to be hard to find. I didn`t re soleder the processor because it needs a lot of heat and I don`t want to burn something.

I didn`t understand hu0033. Did the capasitors and the inductance solved the problem???

[Micro_Tech]

This is my new discovery. I used the heat gun to re solder the samsung processor. And on the first try I didn`t want to heat it too much to avoid damaging the procesor and when I finished and power on the phone on screen appears one pixel that is like dead pixel. But it is not. After some time it fade and everything is ok. This last for some time and then it starts again.
It seems that the heat that was applied to the porcessor is affecting some component around and it is fixed for some time. Now I am almost sure that is some capacitor problem, but it is going to be hard to find. I didn`t re soleder the processor because it needs a lot of heat and I don`t want to burn something.


do you done point voltage test ?

@hu0033
how do you found this problem can come from chipset Qualcomm PM6650 ?

[Mixa84]

do you done point voltage test ?

@hu0033
how do you found this problem can come from chipset Qualcomm PM6650 ?
No i didn`t, yet. I don`t have a multi-meter with me right now. What voltage do you want me to test. On those three capacitors or ????

[Micro_Tech]

No i didn`t, yet. I don`t have a multi-meter with me right now. What voltage do you want me to test. On those three capacitors or ????

Voltage testing is common (or the best) testing method to find where a problem come(on mainboard).
that three capacitors fault is my guess maybe this problem come from other parts or components.

[Mixa84]

I found out that the Samsung processor is on two levels and it is not possible to resolder even with a heat gun. I was lucky when I used the heat gun because I didn`t set high temperatur and I didn`t melt the solder.
Another thing is that (I hope that writting this is not going to jinx it) I have resolved the problem but I don`t know how. I have heated the components around the second samsung IC (across the processor), and after I powered it on everything works for two days now. No tapping, no touch not responding...
I wish that I could tell you how!

[Micro_Tech]

I found out that the Samsung processor is on two levels and it is not possible to resolder even with a heat gun. I was lucky when I used the heat gun because I didn`t set high temperatur and I didn`t melt the solder.
Another thing is that (I hope that writting this is not going to jinx it) I have resolved the problem but I don`t know how. I have heated the components around the second samsung IC (across the processor), and after I powered it on everything works for two days now. No tapping, no touch not responding...
I wish that I could tell you how!

Writing about resolving the problem made it jinx ? :D
I hope you don't see this problem again in your device.
is there any unusual processor load (like before, eg: in divx movies any skiping frames.) ?
I like to know, how do you resolved the problem.(in detail)

[Mixa84]

Writing about resolving the problem made it jinx ? :D
I hope you don't see this problem again in your device.
is there any unusual processor load (like before, eg: in divx movies any skiping frames.) ?
I like to know, how do you resolved the problem.(in detail)

No, there is no processor load or screen tapping or anything.
As I said, I can`t describe exactlly how did I resovle the problem because I did several things and I don`t know wich one fixed it. But here is what i did. I used a heat gun to try to resolder the processor. I didn`t want to damage something so I didn`t apply too much temperature. I tried to heat the processor and to see if the solder is liquid but nothing - lucky for me. Then I used the gun to heat the components around the flat cable connector for LCD (those capacitors that hu0033 replaced), and then I saw one capacitor that is not on his place (like some body changed it) and I heated the capacitor and the components around. This capacitor is below Samsung K5D5657. After that I assembled the phone and turned it on - and everything is working fine!!! :D

[hu0033]

Finally find out the reasons, a poor Soldering place in the red circle ,re flowing of the solder .Touch screen will be ok.

[Micro_Tech]

No, there is no processor load or screen tapping or anything.
As I said, I can`t describe exactlly how did I resovle the problem because I did several things and I don`t know wich one fixed it. But here is what i did. I used a heat gun to try to resolder the processor. I didn`t want to damage something so I didn`t apply too much temperature. I tried to heat the processor and to see if the solder is liquid but nothing - lucky for me. Then I used the gun to heat the components around the flat cable connector for LCD (those capacitors that hu0033 replaced), and then I saw one capacitor that is not on his place (like some body changed it) and I heated the capacitor and the components around. This capacitor is below Samsung K5D5657. After that I assembled the phone and turned it on - and everything is working fine!!! :D

Many thanks.
one problem,there are many capacitors in below of Samsung K5D5657.
witch capacitor?

[Mixa84]

Many thanks.
one problem,there are many capacitors in below of Samsung K5D5657.
witch capacitor?
Yes I know there are many capacitors, but I also don`t know wich one, because I used heat gun with wide nozzle and many of them was heated. So if you can find some where a heat gun try to heat the components on your picture, and if there is still a problem try what hu0033 did, because I heated many components including that hu0033 said.

[Micro_Tech]

I saw one capacitor that is not on his place (like some body changed it) and I heated the capacitor and the components around. This capacitor is below Samsung K5D5657.
Flowed that parts and my device worked properly for just 30 min.

[heuer17]

Yes I know there are many capacitors, but I also don`t know wich one, because I used heat gun with wide nozzle and many of them was heated. So if you can find some where a heat gun try to heat the components on your picture, and if there is still a problem try what hu0033 did, because I heated many components including that hu0033 said.

Mixa84
how is your tytn at the moment? still working fine. Do the problem come back after u heat up those component?

Tell use more about that thanks

[nagete]

Finally find out the reasons, a poor Soldering place in the red circle ,re flowing of the solder .Touch screen will be ok.

Has anyone tried it? Can the problem be solved? I wait your answers ,thanks.

[dx3me]

any update guys? coz i have dead touch screen as well...

[blueshark]

I come from China mainland. I get more than 3 user report that they re-jointing for fixation that ATI chipset by engineer or mobile phone maintenance man. after they do it. the hermes screen stabable more than 20 days.

I think, it is the root case of hermes scree click "ok" automatic.

[vampirbg]

Can anyone confirm that this fixes the problem? I've had mine exhibit these problems after 3 months of use...

One interesting note: If the screen stops responding, I've found out that it becomes responsive again after I've left it on a charger for about 30 minutes or more...

[nqina dlamini]

I tried this option today but the screen is still non-responsive.
Has anyone found some solution?

[robinm02]

This is my first post so bear with me
I have the age old problem of Touchpad freezing after short time, put in fridge works until back at room temperature, etc:-
I have looked at and searched forum for solution and this link helped

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=285062

In this link it talks about changing 3 capacitors as shown on attached photo on page 6 of 10 from hu0033
Which I must say put me on to my findings and thanks for this
I have not done this yet as my problem lies somewhere else or does it?
I need advice on this and to indentify a certain component which may cause this problem
On the reverse side of the main board oposite the capacitor to the far left there is an item that has 3R3 on it and I dont know what this item is? could some one tell me please
If I put a multimeter across this and check continuity and is ok then when I power up again I can use touch pad for a while, the time varies from a few minutes to 15 or 20 minutes
When it fails it starts with top right hand corner etc and finaly dies
Question I am asking by checking continuity am I discharging capacitor other side of board then when capacitor recharges it freezes touchpad or is it something else.

[MikeChannon]

Welcome to the forum.:)

Your questions are directly related to the thread you referenced. As we reuse threads here rather than starting a new one on the same/related subject, I will merge your post there (or here as it is now!).

Mike

[sphynx88]

I have just read until page 3 and im so excited. ive tried everything... opened up and butchered my phone and it still works but problem is that i did something for it to heat up faster now. lemme read on

Ah OK. I will edit my post to show the correct info at point 3.
This is interesting information. So we can conclude that heating and cooling is making and breaking a contact somewhere on the Samsung processor. This is very difficult to fix. The motherboard is multi-layered - and so almost impossible to re solder.

Now perhaps a crude fix might be to glue (possible thermo conductive compound) a thin layer of material (rubber) onto the surface of the chip to keep pressure on the chip. i.e. to keep the chip squeezed between the board and the digitizer facing it. In other words to counteract the movement caused by heating up. Afterall, if pressing a finger on it works then perhaps keeping a costant pressure on it will work. Soldering would be much more satisfactory but probably impossible given the construction and board type. EDIT Not workable pressure required is too great for this to work.

Mike

[sphynx88]

Will hope and pray on this one. and by huo. the thing is i have a test game. orions. i run this up and just check the movement of the map. I have figured that it's not the processor at all because even if my touchscreen is non-responsive (used to the point in increasing from slow to totally not responding), sound is continuous and button reponds immediately and even on screen is immediate. so my conclusion is that the taps... overloads something so is only one solution.

1. stop the freaking taps.

to make my touch screen functional a bit. i aligned it to far left. hehehe does work for me to work around certain things a bit coz i need to live my life too (calls, emails etc.)

How.
1. destroy part of the touch screen. (upper right..crazy) success but failed. (destroyed part of the screen on the upper right.) yup my upper right became non-responsive to my taps but only up to the part not covered by case. crazy coz i only succeeded by dumb luck or 1 second of melting more and i wouldve affected part of the viewable screen. WOULD NOT TRY THIS AGAIN. and it's dumb. whole thing still works though.
FAILED. Phantom taps are still there. so not in the upper part but lower main board part is the problem. one of those things arent done right or are too close together and when it heats up causes friction with the connection that registers tough screen to register the taps which in turn starts the cycle of overloading the whatever chip that processes the taps.

2. try to cool everything coz i did not know which was causing it. how? I removed the metal caps that protects the processors so i knew it would not help much but it would indicate some things. It added 1 min before phantom tap appeared. something's heating up more than it should. conclusion something heats up too much that causes a ground that registers all those phantom taps. which in turn overload the touch screen adapter which one it is there on main board. not the processor but which one. going to try huo's heating gun technique and put it 1 sec by 1 sec. 1 sec. then see. 2 sec. then see. 3 sec. then see. coz the heating gun of huo changed something that disrupted the ground. so it is around the vicinity. thanks for narrowing it down.

3. Huo's solution. i dont know what it will solve. but im just hoping to change the position of one of those things. if not. capacitor here we come but im not too hopeful about that. maybe it's something near the capacitor.


walking in the dark here but just inputs on what others can do to find the solution.


Many thanks.
one problem,there are many capacitors in below of Samsung K5D5657.
witch capacitor?

[Jadel]

Hypothetically, let's assume for a second that the screen problem is caused by overheating and hence a gradual failure in one of the onboard components.
It can be assumed that most of the internal components need to be able to handle the clock speed of the CPU, and thus the throughput speed as well.
If we assume the the CPU is just too fast (and hot) for the PCB (system board) to handle, perhaps a possible solution might involve the incremental de-clocking of the CPU at the rate of its multiplier. This would be until the device reached a rate at which the phone stopped suffering from its ailments ie phantom ghost taps, freezing etc
If the user was concerned with the minimal speed loss, a perceived speed gain could be achieved through memory tweaks in the registry.
The lower clock speed would slow the device down, granted, but theoretically, it would also lower heat output, extend battery life between charges and hopefully even extend the life of the possibly faulty component/s.
Unfortunately, I don't own one of these devices, but was just researching for a friend, so I am unable to test this theory.
Perhaps someone suffering this problem could give this idea a go using an altered version of Xcpuscaler?
I am sure many users would prefer a slower working device than a faster dead one.
The best current option and safest seems to be sending the device to a repair centre.
However, it is also the most expensive, and it may not solve the problem.

//Rant over

Discuss!

[unicorn78]

I come from China mainland. I get more than 3 user report that they re-jointing for fixation that ATI chipset by engineer or mobile phone maintenance man. after they do it. the hermes screen stabable more than 20 days.

I think, it is the root case of hermes scree click "ok" automatic.

Please tell me how they do that?
All welds are under the Chip, is it safe if the chip is burned to 260 oC