Cingular getting in on the Game and Shutting us Down

[weinson]

The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)

see here (http://forums.cingular.com/cng/board/message?board.id=cingular&message.id=32397)for all the gory details.

[djslash]

This is getting more and more ridiculus by the day :-p
Hallllllo M$ and providers. when we buy a device we ALREDY get a licenced WM, what's your problem???????????????????????????????????????

[jamiefiedler]

The Cingular forums are now shutting down discussion re the new ROMS ... nice ... just trying to keep us from helping each other out (you would think it would be to their benefit, so folks don't bug their non-existent customer service)

see here (http://forums.cingular.com/cng/board/message?board.id=cingular&message.id=32397)for all the gory details.

the thread has been resurrected for the time being...no idea how long that will last though.

[steven814]

This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.

[rgreenpc]

Steven -

Do what my wife did, she is part of the State of FL gov contract on Cingular and she has a fair bit of power in moving accounts so she basically said if you can't support your gear with updated ROMs maybe she would move accounts somewhere else.

I doubt they care but who knows...

[the_passenger]

so many dumb-ass flashed their phones w/o reading the instructions, bricked their phones and start to call Cingular/ATT for help/repair/replacement. Next thing we know, MS is trying to remove all ROMs, ATT removing thread about new ROMs....

That's y we should make this community go underground, ban the suckers who don't read, link ROMs to rapidshare or other similar sites instead of this site's FTP server.

It's sad to see we have to remove the ROMs but I wouldn't blame MS or ATT for asking XDA-developers to do so.

Oh, btw, if you guys care go sign the petition, show us some supports even if we dont get what we want.

peace.

[GliTCH82]

It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.

The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.

[djaladin]

This is just like Cingular, I have been told that this update would be out since Dec. by Cingular sales and it never has. We cannot help it if Cingular is so slow on getting updated services out. If they would put more effort in service and less on what they are going to call them selfs maybe they could supply better service. I have 19 cingular accounts and may move all of them if they don't get there act together.


Cingular/AT&T is pretty much the only carrier with even a _leaked_ rom... so how are you going to say that they're slow? They're actually ahead of the curve, in my opinion.

The 8525 came out in November. I'm pretty sure that there must have been some miscommunication if you recall someone in December told you the Rom would be out tomorrow (or any specific immediate timeframe). "Soon" is not necessarily "one month" or less. I think sometimes we hear and preceive what we WANT to be the truth based on what we actually _did_ hear. I mean, as far as I can tell, HTC just released the 3.3 rom to carriers a matter of weeks ago. Cingular has been working on things other carriers aren't doing, too (PTT, Cingular Video, etc.) So they're putting more into the rom than most of our European counterparts need to (with the exception of video calling... yet.)

I guess what I'm saying is that we, as enthusiasts, expect more than the average customer. And as for Cingular / AT&T, of course they don't want to be providing support for an unofficial and likely unfinished rom. Honestly, having inexperienced and impatient Cingular customers reading about this leaked rom and trying to put it on their devices prematurely would certainly cause a terrible amount of problems. Again... it's _leaked_ and _unofficial_, so they should not feel like they have to support it.

Just my 2/3 of a nickel.

[djaladin]

It's the War on Common Sense. And since all of us are a minority here, ignorance and misinformation prevail.

The main reason Big Business does this is because the executives are a much older generation that is scared and terribly confused by the Internet. So to them, we're all looking to ruin their business by making their phones work in ways they didn't intend for them to be used. What they don't know is, our solutions are much better than the ones they provide (hence the void we're filling by being here, supporting, and working out their phones for free) and if they were to release even just half of the ROMs the XDA community cooked up, they'd have a much happier customer base.


I disagree. I believe the truth is if they released half the roms on here, they're customers WOULD be confused, scared, and lost because they have no idea what rom they should be running. They'd have no idea why something doesn't work perfectly on one rom and better on another. Or why one radio may or may not be better. Think about how many people on here aren't reading everything they need to and bricking or nearly bricking their devices. And these are the ones SEEKING the information. The average 8525 user on Cingular's network isn't quite as interested in this stuff as we are here.

Knowledge is power, but unstable power is chaos.

Think about it.

Xda-Developers is a great source for those seeking to know more about their devices than just its typical uses. But anyone who really wants the knowledge will seek it out and find it (just as we all did). Throwing an incomplete rom at the average lawyer who needs Microsoft Direct Push and not much more is likely to cause more problems than it's worth for AT&Tingular as well as for us (because we'll be the ones trying to clean up the mess).

I think I should sign off on this before I infuriate some of those out there who just want to vent their frustration. And we all know the company with the dollars is always a great target to do that.

[esseff]

Does't surprise me in the slightest.

I am sure many OEMs and phone companies are sick of people bricking their phones and claiming warranties (of course they never admit to using cooked ROMs or even trying to upgrade them - 'Just woke up one morning and it wouldn't boot up').

I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.

[shogunmark]

I enjoy this forum too but don't tell me it doesn't encourage people to do things they shouldn't, and are not willing to take responsiblity for.

I have to disagree with that statement... I wasnt aware that giving warnings to the users that flashing their phone could brick it and that they need to read and make sure they fully understand what they are doing before they do it was encouragement... I know that when i came to this board and saw the warnings about flashing cooked roms it freaked me out.. i was registered for several months before i ever made a post, spent countless hours reading all the threads to make sure i fully understood my device before i did anything to it.. its the people that dont read and brick their phone that want to come back and blame us for their mistake.. This is a developers board and quite frankly alot of us go out of the way of development to help people in need... we especially go above and beyond any kind of help that you would recieve from your provider

[.VIBE]

My 2c

I have to agree with shogunmark. I know I made very sure I read every last thread and wiki before I attempted anything as rash as upgrading a Radio stack. This was because of my fear of bricking the unit, because so many people warned it could. I was even willing to endure the mass "RTFM" and "RTFW" flaming if i wanted to make sure I understood everything correctly before risking my device.
I believe the largest part of this community are users that gather here in the spirit of sharing the knowledge about the device to encourage greater growth of the community- the more people, the more mods & hacks & cracks and experiences will become part of the knowledge base.

[shogunmark]

yet im still trying to figure out how "MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE" warnings are encouraging... :D

[esseff]

Come on guys!

Sure there are countless warinings but simply the enthusiasm and excitement amongst the experienced crew, when a new possibliity appears (GPS, WM6, AKU this, AKU that) causes less experience people to get caught up in it.

I'm not for one minute discouraging XDA developing, just TAKE RESPONSIBLILITY IF YOU BRICK YOUR DEVICE AND DON'T GO CRYING TO THE OEM OR TELCO FOR WARANTY. Pay for your mistake and buy another.

I have seen, on this forum people advising others to go back to their supplier with bricked devices and try to get a warranty. It is hard for the supplier to argue with someone who says their device 'Just stopped working', when infact they bricked it, and in the spirit of good customer relations they often replace it. Why wouldn't suppliers be negative toward forums like these when they are placed in this situation.

[Sleuth255]

Sigh... I've been told that HTC's single greatest returned device is the Wizard followed closely by the Hermes. Reason: bricked.

We post the warnings, but plenty of people don't take the time to fully understand then brick their devices anyway (hermes is especially bad in this respect). Then they try to return them.

In many ways, this is the manufacturer fault b/c they are trying to thwart users who try to upgrade or change their devices. Hermes development feels like spy vs. spy sometimes as we crack something and then the next bootloader/radio bootloader comes out. Consequently pre sspl hermes flashing was damn near rocket science. Problems were rampant. Heck, I even saw one poster try to flash the original signed_nbh into the OS area with the 1.01MFG bootloader :eek:

They're all gonna try it. There's no minimum IQ required to be a member here.

Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all. If the correct bytes are written, the software works. When I did SE phone hacking, there were such devices. Because of this, users with bricked phones could take them to their nearest SE phone center and they would re-flash and un-brick (for a price of course).

This ridiculous swapping of bricked devices is what needs to change. Posters need to take financial responsibility for phones they brick. HTC needs to make their hardware flashing system available to Operators at phone centers.

Unfortunately, this won't be the case. Instead, they'll go after us because they can see an ROI impact in terms of bricks. What they can't see is the intangible increase in sales that we stimulate or the intangible loss of future revenue that shutting us down represents.

Sign the petition. Get your friends to sign it. Get it posted on other forums. Get it into the news. Operators and M$ need to be able to see this intangible.

[shogunmark]

on the other hand with the hermes and returns... we just got to a point to where we could brick them less than a month ago... most of the returns before then was by manufacturer fault, i know this because i was one of them, i had a ton of bad blocks in the wrong spot....

its to bad we dont have an easy rom kitchen for these.. something that would make it damn near impossible for the person who cant read to brick their device.. i dont know.. im tired and going back to bad, my post isnt making much sense to me right now :D

but i do agree with you sleuth!

[esseff]

Wow... check out the attitude here...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=294365

Kinda proves my point.

[teknics]

Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.

I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.

The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....

Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.

My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.

Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.

This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.

[Lurker0]

Ideally, we need to find a way to bring any HTC device back to life from brick status. It's only corrupted memory after all.HTC should put JTAG out in its new models :)

Seriously, it's a big flaw that every official ROM image overwrites th bootloader, even with the same version. The whole firmware history teaches that the bootloader should not be touched by end user.

So, the solution is to make custom ROMs flashable by parts, w/o affecting the bootloader. This should prevent bricking... does not revive existing bricks though...

But your overall point is good: manufacturers get angry because of a lot of returns, and care shell be taken to calm them down.

[shogunmark]

on another note about the cingular boards... i got banned :D there was a thread about the lack of good moderation in the HTC board over there, i spoke my piece and got banned... it wasnt even bad, just offered some suggestions.. so much for contructive criticism and free speech..

[tco]

Add a success story here - mainly because I am competent enough to read and ask the right questions when there was vague information.

I am not new to flashing/modding, but the Hermes definately takes it to a new level.

The difference with me, should I ever brick my device - I would just deal with it. I came here with the understanding that the tools available to us come with an increased risk should you not actually understand what you are doing. You need to be aware that you should own up to the possible mistakes and not try to send a bricked device back for warranty....

Two individuals who make this place so great - Pof and Sleuth. Pof has done such a great job with the wiki and his tools - all you need to do is take a few days to read about the device and the steps you need to make. Sleuth brings a different element (and his programs) to the forums and has the patience to point questions to the right areas of the wiki.

My advice - if you plan on unlocking/upgrading take at least a week and read the wiki. Make sure you have all the pieces needed to complete what you want to do. Sync your device and backup all your info - be prepared to hard reset and start from scratch - twice in some cases.

Set aside plenty of time that your phone will be down during this process.

This site is by far the best there is - it's a shame that people rush into things some times.

It should be mandatory to lurk for a month or 2 before posting is allow here. I agree, Wiki reading should be mandatory before some get to post. This would avoid the many "How do I flash WM6" posts.

THis is my frustration with HOFO and why I truly believe xda is a valuable resource.

The most under utilized feature of xda is the good old search...seems like no one uses it.

If people were to use search and wiki they would understand what "perform at your own risk" means. They would understand the what risks and benefits from what goes on at xda.

[shogunmark]

while keeping this thread on track i was informed of something very interesting today.......

It appears that some of the people i know with the 8525 and the new rom who are actively using the PTT feature are getting a call from cingular... they reported to me that the call starts off asking them about PTT and how its working out for them, then they ask them how they got it to work.. i wonder if they are fishing for some kind of info or getting general public response before releasing the rom themselves.... i think it sounds fishy....

If anyone is in this same boat to where they could possibly get called i was told it shows up on your phone as "Unknown" so maybe you want to answer it and screw with them a little.. I may have gotten the call but i dont answer my phone, i let my secretary by the name of voicemail get it..

[weinson]

Well, those calls (if correct) could be tied to the delay in releasing the update... since as sites like this one, the cingular forums, and others have all underscored that perhaps this ROM, in its current incarnation, is not quite ready for prime time. Stating the obvious, Cingular/HTC should be happy we are willing to test this ROM and find the bugs (and create the solutions) .. rather than trying to shut us down.

It will be interesting to see if, when this is finally released (whenever that may be) they fix any of the issues folks have noted.

[shogunmark]

Well, those calls (if correct) could be tied to the delay in releasing the update... since as sites like this one, the cingular forums, and others have all underscored that perhaps this ROM, in its current incarnation, is not quite ready for prime time. Stating the obvious, Cingular/HTC should be happy we are willing to test this ROM and find the bugs (and create the solutions) .. rather than trying to shut us down.

It will be interesting to see if, when this is finally released (whenever that may be) they fix any of the issues folks have noted.

the problem with that is that cingular/ATT dont think logically... it would seem logical that they would call to see how the few people of the general public are getting along with this rom... but i have been with ATT(legacy SBC) for 6 years now, and logical is not in uppermanagement vocabulary.... if something seems logical then they will do the complete opposite....