Note to NOOBS. You're really annoying. READ!

[xultar]

Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.

WM6 is new. SO NEW that Third-Party app developers haven't gotten all their fixes in. Our ROM chefs aren't responsible for those errors. Research and develop a fix, wait until someone develops a fix, or wait for the app developer...But before installing a rom you need to weigh whether or not it is worth it to loose some of your favorite apps. If you must have SPB plus and you read that people are having issues with it don't install the rom UNLESS you want to help find the fix. IF NOT...WAIT until the app developer upgrades their app. Don't install it and then post complaints and threads.

The chefs of these roms aren't here to help you setup your device and to solve all of your issues. If you have issues read, search and fix them. The research is part of the fun...finding fixes is part of the fun. Finding new ways to configure your device and setups is FUN. By asking first you're not participating in the best part of the forum.

As for fixing the "noob" issue...I think there is one pretty good solution.
I think the only way to fix such an issue is to either restrict new users from posting in the the WM6 forums for a period of time after joining. Hopefully you'll use that period of time to read. Because if you choose to install a rom and you know you can't ask a question you'll probably be more apt to read.

I'm not anti-noob. I was a noob once and I am still a noob in many ways. I also know that there are some good noobs in the forum. But I'm tired of taking the time to read the threads for critical information and coming across posts for how to install a new theme or where did the backlight on my keyboard go. That's where your user manual or the HTC website comes in. For Cingular people you have a great resource over @ the Cingular forums.

This is a community of like minded technical individuals. This is not HTC tech support or your carriers support. No one here owes you ANYTHING. You install a rom it's on you. If you can't take the responsibility then don't install the rom. It's pretty simple really.

I just had to get that off my chest. I'm sick and cranky but that only played a small role.

Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)

[CUSTEL]

Helping is useless you just get bashed for it. Instead of putting useless programs that the "chef" uses they could spend that time using the carrier files located in the rom kitchen to help out users which takes all of what 3 minutes if that to recompile for a carrier. This would be much more productive then bitching when someone tries to help by doing that. It's a joke suggesting someone help when they get nothing but grief and sarcasm when they do.

[jasjamming]

the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.

99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.

Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.

EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)

Also note, that recompiling a compressed ROM will cause issues to the people that have installed it. you must decompile the original OS.nb that hasnt been compressed.

[CUSTEL]

the time it takes to put "useless" apps in a rom is about 40 seconds.

99.9percent of the time is spent on optimizing the OS to ensure i runs efficiently and stable.

Carrier settings are a big no no as the ROMS being developed should be portable from one carrier to another. the perosn who installs the ROM should know what their carrier settings are etc.... not the ROM chefs.

EDIT: there is a fine line between "helping" (ie developing a fix and posting it in the official rom thread) as compared to re-releasing the hard work that went into optimizing wm6 etc and just adding one XML customization (what you did)
Yes, you have proved you dont give a shit seeing you post the files that dont work :rolleyes:

[jasjamming]

tell WPbear that and the hundreds of people that got cingular working with that.

And just to remind you its not my job to ensure u set up your carrier. You found a fix, damn mate, post it in the thread.

Although this is an open source community in a way, it is still harmful to the developrs if their work is ripped off without courtesy. ASk first then post later, not post first and hope its ok!

[jasjamming]

this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.

[CUSTEL]

this matter of discussion will stop right now. by the fact that your posts were deleted by mods is a clear sign that you push the boundaries of helping.
You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.

/story

[AdamZhang]

Attention NOOBS. I'm becoming less patient with your posts that include whining and redundancy. This forum isn't here to provide you with all the comforts of your carrier. These roms and installing them is for people who are advanced users of WM. If you need your device for work and you're new to PocketPCs this isn't the place for you. These roms aren't for you so please stick to your carriers’ rom.

......

Again TIP YOUR CHEF!!!!! and donate to XDA. To all of you that make this a interactive vibrant technical-minded environment THANK YOU!
X (donning flame suit)


I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.

However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.

Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.

Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.

[walshieau]

I agree with you that people shouldn't have complained too much on this and that regarding the ROMs cooked by our good fellows.

However I believe there is a better way pursuading people instead of yelling here, in this way you are not much different from those people.

Also you make sounds like it's a must to donate. Well I believe ROM chefs were doing this voluntarily without any intension to collect money. It would be nice for people to donate as a kind of support, but putting it this way may have make it sounds like there are financial motivations behind this ROM cooking thihg.

Anyway, well done CHEFs, keep it up.

no its not a must to donate... but its nice to be appreciated especially when the 'CHEF' has spend hours upon hours of his time and experience to benefit the community... honestly where would we be without these guys??? we would have locked handsets and be stuck with crappy carrier ROM's...

[crazyC]

Hmmm

The noobs who post the ridiculous questions that have been answered many times before are (by their very nature) highly unlikely to read or care about this thread.....

Whilst I agree with some of the underlying points (read the wiki and the threads, use the search function etc) surely the more people who get interested in these devices, the wider they will be available and the better support etc from the carriers and htc will be available, meaning people here can spend more time developing rather than fixing bugs? The initial post just reads as if basically if you are not an experienced developer then you can just **** off. Not sure if (a) that is how it was meant or (b) that is the majority view.

[hdbueller]

Me thinks that xultar and custel need to grow up! Although you both evidently came into this as experts(sic), some others did not have your apparent vast wealth of experience to fall back on. To insult senior members, mods, and our chefs is unacceptable behavior! I, and I am sure others, are hoping to see you go!
The search functions can be a bit of a challenge....LOL, but insults and criticism are not needed.....Do us all a favor and just leave!
Okay.....there's my 4 cents worth..........
Later

[cruiserman]

NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)

[ElGato65]

NOOBS are ok i guess, but I like like BOOBS much more! We need more BOOBS around here! ;-)

Even better NOOBS with BOOBS, :P

[esseff]

Even better NOOBS with BOOBS, :P

... or boobs with noobs :D

[cruiserman]

ROFLMAO!!!

[motionmind]

Same song, different forums. Yes, the noobs need to read the wiki and learn more, but we've all been there and need to remember what it was like getting yelled at in the forums. Yes, some of the "experts" think they're on a pedestal and can be huge jerks, but they've seen the same 10 questions about 1000 times and they help create noob resources like the wiki and the cool roms. Most of us are sitting in the middle just watching both sides screaming and thinking, "it's just a forum, wtf?"

I realize that the real issue began because of all the noobs bricking their phones trying to do things they don't fully understand and the animosity that comes from the ROM archive being removed as an indirect result. In case no one has noticed, this is not exactly an underground site and has become pretty popular with the increasing popularity of HTC products and the fine work that many of the contributors here have done. (Not to mention all the ppc sites that have linked to this one.)

The original post had some good points and I think was well-intended, however, Custel and Jasjamming decided to bring their personal beef with each other into it. If you two would like to argue with each other, feel free to use the private message function. Neither of you are helping this topic and only furthering the idea that a low post count means you're flame bait and a high post count means that you're allowed to tell people what they can and cannot post openly in the threads despite not being a mod. The moral here? We're all part of the same community here, so stop pissing on the neighbor's flowers and just tell him calmly that you're allergic while keeping in mind the other neighbors might like them. ;)

As for the noobs destroying their phones with software they didn't understand and asking really simple over-asked questions, maybe we should make a quiz of basic information that pertains to each model and the information needed to do basic mods to them that all members have to answer with a certain percentage of success before allowing posts or access to download links (exluding a few basic forums). Each group that's active enough could make up their own pop quiz (Hermes, Trinity, etc...). All questions sourced from the wiki of course. Just a thought, since the only other suggestion seems to be to scream at the new guys and tell them to read (and search, which btw, really sucks on most forums since you have to know exactly what you're searching for to find anything useful in many cases).

[twaddle]

having successfully upgraded several different models of HTC device to WinMo6 I know that there's very little risk from the process and a hell of a lot to gain.

Nobody here with a new-ish handset that's considering the upgrade is destitute and penniless, considering what the devices cost I'm beginning to wonder why donations to either the chefs or XDA devs isn't the norm...

Seriously, there are a lot of tight bastards around here, more than there are 'new' users who can't be arsed to use the search before opening the 30th thread asking for help on the exact same issue.

[2007skc]

Guys,

Let me give you a viewpoint from a NOOB. I would not call myself technically challenged nor lazy, but definitely new to this wonderful forum where some people who are way more cooler than me have found ways to help me make better use of my handheld than what I had stock.

Yes, I read the Hermes wiki checked through all (or the threads I thought were relevant) to make sure that this was something I wanted to (and could) do without bricking my expensive device. Even though I thought I read quite a lot, and did everything the wiki said, after I did something I could not verify whether what I did worked or not (like the time I SuperCID-ed my phone and did not know what the steps where to confirm it happened). So I ask. Some times people answer my questions, sometime they dont.

Yes, noobs need to know not to quote large message chunks, they need to read before they ask. I agree to all that. But some people say things like if you are not technical dont even bother to be here, that's insulting.

Though I read and re-read Xultar's initial post and I did not see anything there that really insulted me. I think he had a valid point that if you think you are faint of heart, please stick to your carrier's forum. These forums and this great site is for those adventurers (it just gives me an ego boost to think that way ;-)) who like to go where no man has gone before.

I have been here probably 2 weeks, and I feel like I found a place where I can belong. I just wish I were cool enough to really cook some ROMS. But I think I can get started in small ways.

Jasjamming, I understand your frustration when people take what you have taken great pains in doing and then repackage it, especially without your permission. No excuses for that. But it does not behoove for someone of your stature in this community to bad mouth people. I (and am sure more noobs like me) look up to people like you, kyphur and LVSW who can do things that most of us can just dream about. Just let go or I am sure that the moderators of this forum can remove those posts without much problem.

Sorry for the long rant, but I like this place. And felt I had to weigh in on this conversation.

[shogunmark]

You must have missed the part where I could care less if they were or not? Who are you to say when this will or will not stop? I could care less if you have more pull here or not the forum is bullsit pulling favortism.

/story

its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...

Now everyone play nice or find a different board.

[xultar]

its not about pulling favoritism, its about respect... if you want to use someone else's work for your own then ask permission from the creator and give credit where credits due... the chefs work hard on what they do, kyphur, jasjamming, etc.. all of them.. spend countless hours developing cooked roms for everyone, donations or not.. If you dont like the rules of the community then there are other boards you can point your browser to. Most of the times when you ask permission then the chef will be more than happy to lend you a hand...

Now everyone play nice or find a different board.

Please delete this thread. I'll send a PM to a Mod as well.
Thanks.

[mousey_]

Maybe A Section Should Be Created For Noobs.

This Would Allow People Who Are Not Really Sure What To Do Or If They've Done It Correctly To Ask Their Questions. Anyone Going Into That Section To Then Answer Their Questions Would Then Expect To See The Same Questions Asked Again And Again, But At Least They'd Know What They Were Letting Them Selves In For.

You Could Just Mirror The Stickies About WM6 And Other Things That Generate Alot Of Noob Questions In The Noob Forum And They Can Be Answered There, Whilst Development/Bug Fixing Discussion Could Be Debated In The Main Forum.

Take The Example Of The GPS Idea, That Needed Two Threads, One For Development And One For Praise And Questions, It Would Be A Similar Thing Just Inside A Specific Section.

Cheers

[the_passenger]

the thing is if they dont bother to read the wiki, you think they're gonna read your post ? :D
I'm here to enjoy not here to quarrel or get upset by noob.

[shogunmark]

Please delete this thread. I'll send a PM to a Mod as well.
Thanks.

i wont delete it, but i will certainly lock it!