Can the 8Gb MicroDrive by Hitachi be "upgraded" ?

[lbarouf]

Has anyone try or does anyone know why it could or could not be done? Biggest MicroSD/TransFlash is 2Gb or 4Gb?

[LTxda]

Has anyone try or does anyone know why it could or could not be done? Biggest MicroSD/TransFlash is 2Gb or 4Gb?

I would guess that if the power consumption and size are the same for a larger drive then the answer would be yes. Check the specifications of the installed drive and see if any larger drives exist with the same power consuption and size....let us know what you find...i'm interested. Also, PocketPCTechs are known for updates of this sort. You might consider e-mailing them and asking if they plan on having a HD upgrade for the Athena and letting us know what they say.

I've only found a 4gig SDHC card. If you find something larger let us know this also.

thnx

[wu5262]

I would guess that if the power consumption and size are the same for a larger drive then the answer would be yes. Check the specifications of the installed drive and see if any larger drives exist with the same power consuption and size....let us know what you find...i'm interested. Also, PocketPCTechs are known for updates of this sort. You might consider e-mailing them and asking if they plan on having a HD upgrade for the Athena and letting us know what they say.

I've only found a 4gig SDHC card. If you find something larger let us know this also.

thnx

i can confirm 4G SDHC works fine on Athena

[Pantaloonie]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the tilt sensor for the Vueflow is built into the hard drive.... So swapping it for another drive would prevent that from working.

[LTxda]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the tilt sensor for the Vueflow is built into the hard drive.... So swapping it for another drive would prevent that from working.

Wow, that would make it not possible unless you didn't care for the VueFlow.

[lbarouf]

I found a 16Gb CompactFlash to replace the MicroDrive. Pricey... very pricey, but want to try that. Power comsumption is slighly lower, so I might see improvement. I will try to mirror the "drives" before inserting the CompactFlash. I don't see why it wouldn't work. Access time is much faster also. Can't wait to try to run a movie on a plasma. Finally an alternative to renting movies in hotels! For those interrested in the drive: http://www.flash-memory-store.com/16gb-compact-flash.html The Qmemory drive seems the most interresting one. 24Mb/s access... not even sure the south bridge on this device can access the drive that fast.

[LTxda]

I found a 16Gb CompactFlash to replace the MicroDrive. Pricey... very pricey, but want to try that. Power comsumption is slighly lower, so I might see improvement. I will try to mirror the "drives" before inserting the CompactFlash. I don't see why it wouldn't work. Access time is much faster also. Can't wait to try to run a movie on a plasma. Finally an alternative to renting movies in hotels! For those interrested in the drive: http://www.flash-memory-store.com/16gb-compact-flash.html The Qmemory drive seems the most interresting one. 24Mb/s access... not even sure the south bridge on this device can access the drive that fast.

If this works for you please let me know. I'll buy one also and replace mine. Are you sure the 8GB drive in the Athena is Compact Flash? I have no clue so just asking.

[bogusiano]

I found a 16Gb CompactFlash to replace the MicroDrive. Pricey... very pricey, but want to try that. Power comsumption is slighly lower, so I might see improvement. I will try to mirror the "drives" before inserting the CompactFlash. I don't see why it wouldn't work. Access time is much faster also. Can't wait to try to run a movie on a plasma. Finally an alternative to renting movies in hotels! For those interrested in the drive: http://www.flash-memory-store.com/16gb-compact-flash.html The Qmemory drive seems the most interresting one. 24Mb/s access... not even sure the south bridge on this device can access the drive that fast.

Guys, please hold it, those MicroDrives won't fit on the Athena, Athena's MicroDrive is slightly different in dimensions. :( Just take a look at Asukal's Blog (Naked Athena):

http://asukal.net/blog/?p=299


http://asukal.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/bw_uploads/Athedis%20(9).jpg


Good luck finding the one we need, I am happy now with the one provided!

[LTxda]

Guys, please hold it, those MicroDrives won't fit on the Athena, Athena's MicroDrive is slightly different in dimensions. :( Just take a look at Asukal's Blog (Naked Athena):

http://asukal.net/blog/?p=299


http://asukal.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/bw_uploads/Athedis%20(9).jpg


Good luck finding the one we need, I am happy now with the one provided!

Thanks for the info. I didn't think the Athena used Compact Flash. I'm sure if we contact Hitachi support they will provide us with information on a larger drive. Maybe PocketPC Tech's will soon offer an upgrade. I would prefer having them do it with a warranty.

[LTxda]

Maybe they don't make a larger MicroDrive...check out the site
http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/menuitem.92382478a130ca1492480021aac4f0a0/

[lbarouf]

Hitachi isn't the problem... the problem is the darn CE-ATA interface I didn't notice. Intel is heading the new standard, and the founding member? Hitachi. So far, no other drives then Hitachi's 3K8. Well, they have 2/4/6/8 Gb in sizes, nothing else. 10Gb was suppose to exist, but never saw light. Tough luck for now. Until 20Gb transflash sees light, no expansion. Why oh why HTC didn't you choose the standard CF interface? Looks like I'm returning a 16Gb CF card. :-S

[Buch070]

Hitachi isn't the problem... the problem is the darn CE-ATA interface I didn't notice. Intel is heading the new standard, and the founding member? Hitachi. So far, no other drives then Hitachi's 3K8. Well, they have 2/4/6/8 Gb in sizes, nothing else. 10Gb was suppose to exist, but never saw light. Tough luck for now. Until 20Gb transflash sees light, no expansion. Why oh why HTC didn't you choose the standard CF interface? Looks like I'm returning a 16Gb CF card. :-S
Good that HTC installed from the beginning the max available capacity, not 2/4/6 GB.

[lbarouf]

That's another way of looking at it. It's positive... true. I guess if you are ultra conscious in the design also, shaving off a few milimeters and tenth of grams is immportant also.

[RichardKAthena]

Why do people keep referring to Transflash? Transflash was the standard that became MicroSD, I thought - the thumbnail sized cards. MiniSD is like the SD equivalent of the 1/2 MMC cards.

[lbendlin]

Why do people keep referring to Transflash? Transflash was the standard that became MicroSD, I thought - the thumbnail sized cards. MiniSD is like the SD equivalent of the 1/2 MMC cards.

Doesn't really matter, you can put a Transflash (MicroSD) card into a MiniSD adapter.

[LTxda]

Good that HTC installed from the beginning the max available capacity, not 2/4/6 GB.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm soooooooooo glad they went with the largest available drive. Means they didn't cut too many corners. Way to go HTC on this choice! Doesn't feel like they skimped on us. :)

[RichardKAthena]

Doesn't really matter, you can put a Transflash (MicroSD) card into a MiniSD adapter.

Uh, yeah, and you can put a Transflash into an SD card adaptor and use it in your camera, too, if you want expensive, slow, small amounts of memory.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to use Transflash in the device, but that people saying Transflash may be confused about what card slot the device has and buy the wrong memory. Or more importantly, people reading might think it has a MicroSD slot.

[lbarouf]

I use MicroSD aka Transflash because I can put them in all my devices 9sometimes using adapters obviously). Where SD or MiniSD wouldn't fit in a Motorola phone or Blackberry with Transflash (or MicroSD for the purists *grin*)

cheers! I love my Athena the way it is. I still feel the urge to tweak it though! ;-)

[RichardKAthena]

Memory is so cheap these days, I just get each device a card - especially since my Nokia's MiniSD card doesn't seem to be recognised by the Mac (I haven't tried it in the Athena yet). 4GB is only £40!

[Digital.Diablo]

That looks like a 1" drive, like wots inside some iPods. Is it even smaller than that? :eek:

[lbarouf]

That's what I'm using. I got a 1Gb MiniSD with my E61, now it's in my Athena. No problem there.

Memory is so cheap these days, I just get each device a card - especially since my Nokia's MiniSD card doesn't seem to be recognised by the Mac (I haven't tried it in the Athena yet). 4GB is only £40!

[lbarouf]

The microdrive inside the Athena? Yes... it's slightly smaller then a CompactFlash card. The iPod uses 1.8" wide HDD and is much higher and thicker.

That looks like a 1" drive, like wots inside some iPods. Is it even smaller than that? :eek:

[SysMan.net]

Hitachi isn't the problem... the problem is the darn CE-ATA interface I didn't notice. Intel is heading the new standard, and the founding member? Hitachi. So far, no other drives then Hitachi's 3K8. Well, they have 2/4/6/8 Gb in sizes, nothing else. 10Gb was suppose to exist, but never saw light. Tough luck for now. Until 20Gb transflash sees light, no expansion. Why oh why HTC didn't you choose the standard CF interface? Looks like I'm returning a 16Gb CF card. :-S

Internal HDD model: HMS361008M5CE00
According to specification from hitachi site:

HGST_3K8_091506.pdf
Microdrive 3K8-8 HMS361008M5CE00 1" 8 GB
has PATA ZIF connector, not CE-ATA.

How to Read the Microdrive Model Number
HMS361008M5CE00 = 8GB
H = Hitachi
M = Microdrive
S = Standard
36 = 3600 RPM
10 = Reserved
08 = Capacity this model – 8GB (06 = 6GB)
M = Generation code
5 = 5mm z - height
CE = ZIF connector PATA interface (CA = CE-ATA,
CM = ATA on MMC)
0 = Reserved
0 = Reserved

[c0mput0r]

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/05/29/pqi.256gb.solid.state/


I wonder if it is possible to use the 1.8" 32GB ssd drive when it comes out? It has a zif socket like the orig 8gb drive in the x7500 so maybe it will work. It is 1.8" but the orig drive i think is only 1". I wonder how much extra room around where current drive sits.

Are there any pictures of the insides of the x7500?

[LTxda]

http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/05/29/pqi.256gb.solid.state/


I wonder if it is possible to use the 1.8" 32GB ssd drive when it comes out? It has a zif socket like the orig 8gb drive in the x7500 so maybe it will work. It is 1.8" but the orig drive i think is only 1". I wonder how much extra room around where current drive sits.

Are there any pictures of the insides of the x7500?

Check this out...
http://asukal.net/blog/?p=299

I wonder if there is enough extra room. I would upgrade in a heartbeat!

[baddison]

Check this out...
http://asukal.net/blog/?p=299

I wonder if there is enough extra room. I would upgrade in a heartbeat!


I would be more interested in upgrading the units RAM for those really processor-intesive games and applications. I wonder what kind of memory chips are on board these things?

[c0mput0r]

Unfortunately those pictures do not show the exact placement... or any placement for the current micro drive. While they are neat to look at they don't help much in figuring out if anything else might fit.

[lbarouf]

Internal HDD model: HMS361008M5CE00
According to specification from hitachi site:

HGST_3K8_091506.pdf
Microdrive 3K8-8 HMS361008M5CE00 1" 8 GB
has PATA ZIF connector, not CE-ATA.

How to Read the Microdrive Model Number
HMS361008M5CE00 = 8GB
H = Hitachi
M = Microdrive
S = Standard
36 = 3600 RPM
10 = Reserved
08 = Capacity this model – 8GB (06 = 6GB)
M = Generation code
5 = 5mm z - height
CE = ZIF connector PATA interface (CA = CE-ATA,
CM = ATA on MMC)
0 = Reserved
0 = Reserved


Thanks for the correction. still not something handily available for modders. I would have much rather see a Compact Flash interface instead.

[Pyrofer]

Look here,
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/05/pny-unveils-ssds-for-laptops-ipods-and-more/
These new SSD devices have the zif connector. Its just a matter of time it seems, in a year or so these will be quite common.
I guess it depends on how long you will keep the Athena for.

[computer9cowboy]

Hitachi isn't the problem... the problem is the darn CE-ATA interface I didn't notice. Intel is heading the new standard, and the founding member? Hitachi. So far, no other drives then Hitachi's 3K8. Well, they have 2/4/6/8 Gb in sizes, nothing else. 10Gb was suppose to exist, but never saw light. Tough luck for now. Until 20Gb transflash sees light, no expansion. Why oh why HTC didn't you choose the standard CF interface? Looks like I'm returning a 16Gb CF card. :-S

The Sony Vaio UX uses the PATA ZIF connector also but they take the more standard 1.8" HDD and SSD drives. The ultimate for the Athena would be a 1" SSD with PATA ZIF. I haven't seen anything like that on the horizon, I have been looking heavily at SSD drives to upgrade the UX with.

[Wizarc]

If you look here at the last picture on the top group it looks like the Microdrive is in an exact placement with no room on the top. Wonder what the gray strip is in the middle. If that is removable to provide the other 0.8"? Of course this could be where the connector for the microdrive is, then any bigger unit would never work since it would have to extend out the top area.

Also where are intructions on how to take the unit apart? We see pictures, but not the how. I tired to take mine apart and it looks like the inside components are manufactured pressed into the shell and I could not get them out?

http://pdaclub.pl/forum/index.php?topic=64923.msg428904#msg428904

[c0mput0r]

That grey strip is probably a piece of tape. Unless your talking about the metal box in the middle then I have no idea. The picture does give a better idea how things are placed but I can't believe that someone taking apart this device has not provided a nice complete step by step in pictures. It seems all pictures are just to show what chips are on the boards and nothing more. Would be nice to have the repair manual for this also.

[BigDede]

These are links to some 12Go Microdrive (1 inch) which should fit as a replacement of our 8Go :rolleyes: ... These Mircodrives exists since begining of 2006, so HTC didn't choose the highest capacity of Mircrodives for the Athena -- Sorry but the links are in French :cool:

Seagate 12Go 1"
http://www.generationmp3.com/index.php/2006/02/14/2450-dd-1-de-12go-chez-seagate

Cornice 12Go 1"
http://www.generationmp3.com/index.php/2006/08/09/3851-microdrive-12go-chez-cornice

I didn't find any Microdrive reference on seagate website :(

[mojo2000]

These Mircodrives exists since begining of 2006, so HTC didn't choose the highest capacity of Mircrodives for the Athena

But probably they chose the best compromise between capacity and durability ... at least I hope so :cool:

[Midget_1990]

they probably chose the cheapest.

[LTxda]

Forget the MicroDrive on a portable device, let's get a 16/32GB CF card in there. :)

[gtm55]

Forget the MicroDrive on a portable device, let's get a 16/32GB CF card in there. :)

I'm wanting that too! ;)

[mcwtrekkie]

A CF card would be absolutely amazing, but isn't that a little wishful thinking? - Something to do with the ide interface??

[Pyrofer]

CF cards should support the logical interface, but the physical one is a problem.
Even if you find a CF that can be small enough, it wont have the connector.

[BigDede]

I'll wait for a mini SDHC 8/16 Go, that will do the job ...

[LTxda]

I'll wait for a mini SDHC 8/16 Go, that will do the job ...

When will those be out?

I wonder if we can take out the MicroDrive and setup a type of "hub" that'll accept for 4gig SDHC cards in the same space the MD was in. Does anyone know enough about this? Maybe tie into the existing SD slot and run a cable to the MD compartment giving us an additional 16GB's of SD storage. Wonder if at all possible with the recovered space after removing the MD. Anyone?

Edit: AND if that's possible, someone can code a RAID5 utility for those cards and we would have 4 SDHC cards in RAID5 config. Of course we would lose some space but this would be the ultimate storage hack for these devices. Of course, the 4 SDHC's would be internal and non-interchangable because of the type of modification this would entail. :-D

[BigDede]

When will those be out?

No idea, hopefully soon

The SDHC is already out with 8Go, so I think the miniSD will follow

[Pyrofer]

It seems that a solution for the ZIF connector exists, except the size is a problem.
If your willing to go Uber extreme like this guy,
http://www.tarkan.info/20070804/tutorials/modding/ipod-video-compact-flash-mod/2/
You could probably make an adaptor, but it wont fit in the provided space however. Unless you dismantle the actual CF card.
Any Solder-jedi want to take on a challenge?

[Wizarc]

Anyone have any updated info on taking apart the 7500/7501. Pictures, what the connector looks like. Area around the 1" hard drive, etc.

Basically bumping ...

[mahjong]

Anyone have any updated info on taking apart the 7500/7501. Pictures, what the connector looks like. Area around the 1" hard drive, etc.

Basically bumping ...

Do you mean how to open and deal with Athena insides?

I got the HTC Advantage Service Manual in a link of xda-developers. It's 10 MB full of info and pictures of how to dismantle (hmmm wrong spelling?) the X7500.

I have it in my personal web page: http://www.arrakis.es/~tejedor/HTC-AthenaServiceManual.pdf

[Madhadder]

This has all benn discussed many times before.

1. As of this post there is no way to Update or replace the built-in microdrive with anything other than another x7500 Microdrive.
The format is listed as a 1.8in MD, but its been stripped down to under 1in. Standard size cards wont fit.

2. It uses a special type of connector, which is not widly avail. on any memory products.

The MD in the X7500, is a specailly made model for HTC. There are no alternatives..
If you want more info, than do a search.

[szoustal]

Do you mean how to open and deal with Athena insides?

I got the HTC Advantage Service Manual in a link of xda-developers. It's 10 MB full of info and pictures of how to dismantle (hmmm wrong spelling?) the X7500.

I have it in my personal web page: http://www.arrakis.es/~tejedor/HTC-AthenaServiceManual.pdf

link is deleted. alternative link?

[mahjong]

Whatever the reason my Service Manual is deleted at my web page.

I got it in here at xda-developers:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1429042&postcount=13

Thanks to mikechannon

[nuclear]

Dang. I should get back my HTC Advantage XD

[LTxda]

This has all benn discussed many times before.

1. As of this post there is no way to Update or replace the built-in microdrive with anything other than another x7500 Microdrive.
The format is listed as a 1.8in MD, but its been stripped down to under 1in. Standard size cards wont fit.

2. It uses a special type of connector, which is not widly avail. on any memory products.

The MD in the X7500, is a specailly made model for HTC. There are no alternatives..
If you want more info, than do a search.

I found the following....doesn't address the space issue but just wanted people to have the resource....they sell to the public and anyone that wants to experiment can buy the MD to CF adapter they sell. :-)

Not sure if it's physically compatible with what the Athena has but i'm sure if you want to test it out you can ask the company selling it.

PA-CF18H replaces HITACHI 1.8" hard disk drive with CFcard.
http://www.ably.com.tw/news/news.asp

Maybe it can be taken apart and the adapter used somehow.

[mcwtrekkie]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I seem to be going round in circles!

The microdrive uses a Zif connection right?

so aCF card in a cf-zif adapter should work?

I've seen a few adapters around, but all are rather big. They need like 20mm off the length, 10mm of the width, and 1mm off the height before they'd fit

However, I'm still hopefull.

[computer9cowboy]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I seem to be going round in circles!

The microdrive uses a Zif connection right?

so aCF card in a cf-zif adapter should work?

I've seen a few adapters around, but all are rather big. They need like 20mm off the length, 10mm of the width, and 1mm off the height before they'd fit

However, I'm still hopefull.

It seems 2 me that if the cf-zif adaptors exist but are 2 large a person good with a soldering iron could strip one and strip a cf card and put something together that would work. When I get one I will go to work on this.

[tarkanakdam]

Hi,

Have noticed this thread from the link to my site.

What is the size limit for the compact flash to Zif adaptor?

regards, Tarkan

[patrickl]

Lol, isn't this a coincidence:
Unwired: T-Mobile Germany announces the T-Mobile MDA Ameo 16 GB (http://www.theunwired.net/?item=unveiled-t-mobile-germany-announces-the-t-mobile-mda-ameo-16-gb)

[KiberNav]

Transcend 8GB 1.0" IDE INTERFACE 35 Pin FPC ZIF PATA, 115 EUR

http://interngeheugen.com/prodmem.odb?artcod=15935

[shortyboy]

wouldnt we just wait for an upgrade since the x7510 has a 16gb flash drive?im sure theyll release an upgrade drive for the previouse versions.

[bluesbrothers93]

la reference est TS16GSSD10-M (M => MLC)
aux alentours de 100 USD (60 EUR)

Ciao, ciao
Richard (FR)

[kiliss]

la reference est TS16GSSD10-M (M => MLC)
aux alentours de 100 USD (60 EUR)

Ciao, ciao
Richard (FR)

Attention, tu vas te faire remonter les brettelle pour parler en francais (anglais obligatoire), mais bon c ton premier poste, en tous cas merci pour l'info.

Attention, you'll get back scolding for having to speak in French (English required), but good is your first post, in any case thanks for the information

[Janis]

http://www.antonline.com/p_SanDisk--SDSDQR-8192-A11M--Sandisk-SDSDQR8192A-microSDHC-8GB-_474928.htm

micro-to-mini adpater on ebay for about $3

[rsolomon]

so aCF card in a cf-zif adapter should work?

I've seen a few adapters around, but all are rather big. They need like 20mm off the length, 10mm of the width, and 1mm off the height before they'd fit

However, I'm still hopefull.

Here's a USA source for one:
http://www.ameri-rack.com/APA-CF18Zm.htm

http://www.ameri-rack.com/assets/APA-CF18Z.jpg

HTH,
Richard

[rsolomon]

Transcend 8GB 1.0" IDE INTERFACE 35 Pin FPC ZIF PATA, 115 EUR

http://interngeheugen.com/prodmem.odb?artcod=15935

Cheaper in the USA?
http://www.transcendusa.com/Products/ModDetail.asp?ModNo=184

Richard

[mw22]

Hi

Can one just disconnect the 8GB HD and that would save power already

Using 4GB SDHC card anyway

How does one diconnect it and leave it in its bay???

[Baenwort]

For disassembly pictures check out:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=357502&page=15

we're working towards replacing it with a SSD but you could just unplug it as that has already been done with no ill effects.

[bluesbrothers93]

just to inform you that i expect receive the Transcend 1" 16GO next week

when receive it, i going to replace the microdrive as soon as possible

[Gingarmada]

Just wondering if it can be done and if anyone has done it.

[ol2]

Just wondering if it can be done and if anyone has done it.

I replaced the microdrive with the 16GB SSD but it did not work.

[rsolomon]

I replaced the microdrive with the 16GB SSD but it did not work.

Bummer - what were the symptoms?

Richard

[ol2]

Bummer - what were the symptoms?

Richard

I could not get the Athena to see the SSD. It acted like the SSD/HDD was not connected.

[rsolomon]

I could not get the Athena to see the SSD. It acted like the SSD/HDD was not connected.

That sucks :( I assume you tried the "Format Microdrive" option?

It would really stink if HTC hard-coded the Athena to only recognize the Hitachi micro-drive, or hard-coded it for 8GB maximum....

Richard

[PBL1]

In this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=406182 some body installed AP4 in his 7510 and the flash driver disappeared does it mean that 750x roms lack the drivers?
If that is the case it should not be difficult to transfer the flashcard drivers from a 7510 rom into a 750x rom
perhaps is worth a try

P:)

[ol2]

just to inform you that i expect receive the Transcend 1" 16GO next week

when receive it, i going to replace the microdrive as soon as possible

Did you try it yet?

[lastnikita]

In this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=406182 some body installed AP4 in his 7510 and the flash driver disappeared does it mean that 750x roms lack the drivers?
If that is the case it should not be difficult to transfer the flashcard drivers from a 7510 rom into a 750x rom

I guess so, or even easier, try to flash a 7510 rom onto our device ?
Is there any other hardware difference that internal drive and joystick ?

I just bought a 7500 from ebay and the microdrive is crashed :-/

[bluesbrothers93]

There is an other thread in the forum who they try to do it without succes

i've got a idee to make work the upgradding to 16 GO SSD

1st i need to receive it
2nd i need to buy a 3rd X7500
my 1st one is for every day and i use the 2nd one for all software tests

wait and see

[rsolomon]

i've got a idee to make work the upgradding to 16 GO SSD

Have anyone tried an 8GB SSD? Is the problem the SSD vs HDD or 16GB vs 8GB?

Richard

[PBL1]

We assume that the pin arrangement of the Transcent SSD is identical than the Athena drive

we know that the athena plataform can run SSD (7510)

A 7510 rom does not work in the 750x as it is ( require the 750x to be modified a la AP4 spl 3.50, ......yea other roms work with spl1.20 in 750X but Im betting there will be better chance with a 7510 pure breed rom)

Ideally we should have a rom cooked with all the required drivers and registry keys to work with SSD

that would provide a good starting point to play

also it probably would be a good idea to fire a email to transcent technical services.

Questions not answered : what are the capabilities of the athena driver interface? the 7510 has the SSD attached directly to the PCB but that does not mean that the interface is different that the one in the 7500, a level0 technical diagram of booth devices that show what IC they use to interface the storage would be very useful,
Ooh I wish sleuth was into this, I still remember his research in to the gps capabilities in the Tytn forun
ultimately I do not see any reason why a SSD should not work in the 750x....yet

regards

[rsolomon]

We assume that the pin arrangement of the Transcent SSD is identical than the Athena drive

Well, they're both PATA-ZIF which is supposed to be standard, so I think we all expected the SSD would be a drop-in :(

Richard

[lastnikita]

So I guess we just need to copy 7510's storage drivers to our device and redirect the WM entries to them in the registry ? Who has a SSD to try that ?
I'm sure the biggest part is identifying the driver files, we need to dig into the registry.

[ol2]

So I guess we just need to copy 7510's storage drivers to our device and redirect the WM entries to them in the registry ? Who has a SSD to try that ?
I'm sure the biggest part is identifying the driver files, we need to dig into the registry.


I have the SSD and will try it if someone can find the drivers. I will have to take the Athena apart again but that's ok.
I have talked to Transcend. They suggusted formatting the drive before putting it into the Athena (it is not formatted from the factory). But I have no way to use the SSD outside of the Athena. I looked for a USB<->35 PIN ZIF connector but could not find one. There are lots of 40 PIN connectors but no 35 PIN.
Another idea might be to do a bit-for-bit copy from the microdrive to the SSD but that again would need to done outside the Athena.

[rsolomon]

I looked for a USB<->35 PIN ZIF connector but could not find one.

No personal experience, and I suspect you'll have to buy from a distributor or dealer (try googling the part #):
http://www.ameri-rack.com/APA-HD18Zm.htm

http://www.ameri-rack.com/assets/APA-HD18Z_b.jpg

[Edit]Obviously this takes the PATA-ZIF to a standard 40pin IDE/PATA connector which you can use with any USB-PATA enclosure or right inside a PATA-equipped PC or whatever....

[Edit2]I forgot to include the link to the OEM:
http://www.ably.com.tw/pdt/viewpdt.asp?absp=42&cat=CHASSIS_PARTS

HTH,
Richard

[PBL1]

Thats a good finding ,obviously it open the possibility to mirror the Athena disk in to the SSD, to see what happen, in the other hand if the disk have to be formatted before its recognized it means that extra expense of buying the part or perhaps someone will make some extra pennies selling ready to pop SSD:)

Ok, drivers
When AP4 was cooked, they had to change the drivers to recognize the internal HD, so perhaps Pawell can point us in the right direction.

[ol2]

No personal experience, and I suspect you'll have to buy from a distributor or dealer (try googling the part #):
http://www.ameri-rack.com/APA-HD18Zm.htm

http://www.ameri-rack.com/assets/APA-HD18Z_b.jpg

[Edit]Obviously this takes the PATA-ZIF to a standard 40pin IDE/PATA connector which you can use with any USB-PATA enclosure or right inside a PATA-equipped PC or whatever....

[Edit2]I forgot to include the link to the OEM:
http://www.ably.com.tw/pdt/viewpdt.asp?absp=42&cat=CHASSIS_PARTS

HTH,
Richard

Thanks for the link but I think that ZIF connector is a 40 PIN ZIF which is used for 1.8" drives.
The microdrive/SSD is a 1" drive and has a 35-PIN FPC ZIF connector.
There are lots of converters available for 1.8" drives as these are commonly used drives. I can't find anything with the specific ZIF connector used by the microdrive.

[bluesbrothers93]

there is similitude with CF connector and the 1" 35pin ZIF P-ATA ?

if yes, maybe we can try to find an IDE to CF adaptor who work for 1" SSD ?!

[Oberth]

Been keeping an eye on this but not posted much since my previous suggestions had not done the trick.

Some more searching of around on the net brings these up two prodcuts.
http://www.edgetechcorp.com/storage/mini-hard-drive.asp (American)
http://www.dvd-and-media.com/usb-verbatim-hd-drive.html (UK)

Assuming they are 1" drives inside and not 1.8" you should be able to pop it open and swap the drive inside for the Transcend SSD to see it works, the first link gives dimensions of that unit as 1.9" square so it could be a 1.8" with no protection or a 1" with a decent housing.

If it works you should be able to hook up the 8GB microdrives from the phone allowing you to use Ghost or similar to clone the microdrive to the SSD saving you from having to reinstall anything.

We will not be beaten :)

[PBL1]

Assuming they are 1" drives inside and not 1.8" you should be able to pop it open and swap the drive inside for the Transcend SSD to see it works, the first link gives dimensions of that unit as 1.9" square so it could be a 1.8" with no protection or a 1" with a decent housing.

how do es it connect to its internal drive?
if its used to test communication with the transcend SSD or formatting, the size may not be an issue, just get rid of the casing, this assuming that it connect to the internal drive by a ribbon and that the connector is compatible with the transcent.

if it works you should be able to hook up the 8GB microdrives from the phone allowing you to use Ghost or similar to clone the microdrive to the SSD saving you from having to reinstall anything.

What about connecting the athena to the computer and using WM5Torage or USB to PC so the athena microdrive is recognized as external storage?

[Oberth]

Hi PBL1,

The main problem with the whole project is that the drives we want to use are 1" with a 35 pin connector where as the 1.8" use a 40 pin connector so the type of drive that's inside these is crucial to it working or not which is why the AmiRack product further up is a non starter due to the pinout.

Also I had suggested the WM5Storage trick a while back and OL2 who has a transcend drive tried it out but it seems that with out some form of formatted partition present it could not be picked up buy the unit possibly a limitation of the windows mobile platform.

[Oberth]

Wanted to put this in a seperate post to my reply to PBL1

A random thought came to me while typing my reply above we know that Windows Mobile cannot see an unformatted drive but could Android be a way for us to get round this? given that it's a 'proper' os with a fancy gui there may be a way to access the drive and format it with that.

I shall ask over in the Android thread and see what comes from that side :) might not come to anything but it's certainly another avenue to explore . . .

Android thread is here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=393389

[bluesbrothers93]

i finaly receive my 16GO Transcend SSDisk

next stepp is to find a way to implement X7500

i look at mini USB 1" disk links that you post
but in my mind i need IDE adapatator
cause all my solutions (partition and formatage or MBR acces) work sure via IDE way.....

[bluesbrothers93]

i find that but i imagine price is very expensive

http://www.actel.com/documents/PXA270_UG.pdf

[bluesbrothers93]

i've just order an Microdrive type 2 for few euros

in the data sheet i've see that it subdivised in two parts
1st an zif 35pin PATA to CF type II
2nd the mechanical part of the Microdrive

I will try to replace the mechanical part by the SSD
we will see....

wathever
i continu to look for 1" 35 PIN ZIF adapter .......

[mfschneider]

The Athena Service Manual mentions a "Diagnostic MiniSD Card" in section 4.2 at page 53, that provides a "HDD Detect Test" operation (p. 62) as well as a "Format FAT" operation (p. 63). Maybe this HDD test might be able to find the SSD and report its characteristics as seen by the Athena. This would at least be an indication if the SSD is working at all and a starting point for exploration into the driver quest. Can anybody get hold of this diagnostic software?

R, Michael

[bluesbrothers93]

mfschneider

well done !

i'm sure that is a good way to explore

like the precedent post you made where you speak about use W5storage way......

to be continue

please, tell us that some one can provide us that spécific diag. software .....

[bluesbrothers93]

i've find a path about diag software

i will try it tomorow

It's not the good soft

damned !

[bluesbrothers93]

mfschneider
can you check for me, this following thread below, to check if it's a good way to follow ?!

my english in not enaugh good, and i'm not sur to understand well.....

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=254928

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=276766

Any help to find the HTC "MiniSD Diagnostic software"
well be apreciate .....

[bluesbrothers93]

if someone can check this for me (difficulty with english)
http://www.spv-developers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297

and here

http://vivien.chappelier.free.fr/typhoon/doc.html

[Oberth]

Just been having a look round on the net (one day I shall do some work at work)

Found this site http://mrmacintosh00.spymac.com/ipod/dead.html where someone has got a rather dead ipod and dismantled it. of interest main is this pic http://mrmacintosh00.spymac.com/ipod/images/dead/04.jpg which is the microdrive circuit board which seems to have a tiny white connector on the right that looks about right for a 35 pin zif so fingers crossed it will work out for him.

The only problems I can see is trying to get it all inside a card reader as the connector is at a right angle to the board which might make it tricky, also depending on the card reader some behave better than others when dealing with microdrives.

Also another possible step the 1" USB harddrives I mentioned a couple of posts back might be an all in one solution if they could be broken down to expose the drive and then open the drive for the circuit board with the zif you would have all the kit needed (maybe)

[keithwwalker]

I have found a hard disk duplicator and an adaptor for the Hitachi 3K8 hard drive.

Things I have to clarify:


Whether or not the HDD duplicator will copy WM6.0/6.1 OS
Whether the adapter can be used as a dongle, or does it need to be used in conjunction with the duplicator (I assume only with duplicator)
Whether the ZIF connection is indeed for 35 pin PATA (I assume yes)

There is one company offering a service on duplication. It may worth just having them try to duplicate the Hitachi hidden files onto the Transcend SSD and see if it works.

What does everyone think?

http://www.ics-iq.com/images/product/DJ%20Pro%20Ad%20Flat%202%20Large1.jpg

http://www.pctestpro.com/images/10HitachiXL.jpg

[johnripper]

where did you find the adapter i would like to buy one. thanks

[keithwwalker]

Duplicator here (USA rights):
http://www.ics-iq.com/
http://www.diskology.com/
Adapter here:
http://www.yec-usa.com/products/accessories.html
If you live outside USA, you can also buy the adapter from YEC.

I think our hope for a SSD of 16Gb or greater is riding on a device like this.

kww

[bluesbrothers93]

It's good think to find that kind of equipements...

But 499 USD for Duplicator

and 120 USD for 1" Adapter

it's not little money.....

damned !!!!

[rsolomon]

But 499 USD for Duplicator


I cannot imagine one NEEDs the duplicator - PartitionMagic or similar tool should work just fine, and I'm pretty sure WM boots from the internal flash, NOT the microdrive.

$120 does seem steep for the adapter!

Richard

[bluesbrothers93]

it sure that Duplicator is not essentiel

but it's nice to know about existence of this product

I've got already (not mobile) binary HD duplicator

but some of fonctionnality of this new product seem interresting....

120 USD for adapter vs 75 USD of the SSD

that is a steep.....

it's sure !

[keithwwalker]

Look at it this way, with 1 adapter you have enough demand to format 10-20 SSD's at minimum. So cost per SSD for the adapter becomes only $6-12.

Big question I have is there a software available so that the hidden files on the Hitachi 3K8 Microdrive can be made viewable via USB connection and WM5torage?

How are people viewing these hidden formatting files?

[keithwwalker]

Here is IDS's reply to my questions on the duplicator:

Hi Keith,

Our DJ PRO does not interact with the OS contents or file system of any hard disk, it simply copies everything sector-by-sector, as it exists on the source disk. Therefore it doesn’t matter what OS or file system is in use, it will copy until there are no more sectors left, or it runs out of sectors on the target drive. Thus, you need to have a target hard disk with at least the same number of sectors as the master/source drive; any excess sectors become unallocated space, which can be reclaimed by use of some OS utility or some 3rd party software (such as, Partition Magic 8.0 for a Windows OS).
> “Are the ZIF Adapters for 35 or 40 pin cables?”
Both the ICS Drive Guide ZIF adapter F.GR-0024-900 and the original ZIF adapter F.GR-0024-000A are for the standard 40-pin ZIF cable and connectors.


The ICS 40 pin is no go for the Hitachi drive or the Transcend SSD, will need the following adapter from YEC:

http://www.yec-usa.com/products/adapter_images/y6402/boxpart_y6402.jpg

Good news for that:
http://yec.groupee.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5361088571/m/4671009392 (http://yec.groupee.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5361088571/m/4671009392)
The Y6402 is configured for the industry standard PATA 35 pin. It will support the trancend 1.0" drive as well as the Hitachi 3k8 (PATA interface). They both run on 3.3 volts of DC power and the adapter allows data to run bi-directionally.

So who has a Transcend SSD and a Hitachi HDD to test out?

[bluesbrothers93]

i should buy it but price is high for a simple adapter !

I'va already have Transcend SSD 1", 4Go Hitachi Microdrive and dédicated X7500 for hardware tests

to be contin......

[keithwwalker]

So can anyone confirm that there is some sort of 'lock' in the HTC 750x WM6 OS that prevents another drive from being mounted?

Never mind the formatting issues, I am just worried about if the OS has a 'block'?

[keithwwalker]

fyi, I have found the pin assignments for both the Hitachi 3K8 8GB microdrive and the Transcend 16GB SSD.

The pin assignments on the 35 pin, .3mm pitch ZIF P-ATA connector are IDENTICAL.

So the question is there an block in the HTC hardware that prevents other drives from being recognized?

[PBL1]

is there an block in the HTC hardware that prevents other drives from being recognized?

That is very unlikely, what's the point, if its any hardware problem is more likely to be with the capabilities of the ATA controller in our devices( ideally we should find what chip HTC uses in the athena and google it) , but i want to believe those are capable enough

more likely would be software drivers or formatting issues, just like a pc require a bios upgrade in order to recognize a newer kind of hardware or windows need a prepared drive before it can see it.

but who knows maybe HTC is evil enought

by the way is there not a single HTC engineer monitoring this forums? because Ill love to ear their opinion in this issue, that's for sure

[keithwwalker]

Well I bit the bullet and ordered the ZIF adapter and the Transcend 16GB SSD. I have an idea that no one else has tried yet, and I hope it will work.

The SSD may be backordered, so I would expect a 2 week wait for results or lack thereof...

[bluesbrothers93]

I've just read your post

instead of adapter (120 USB)
i've just receive a Microdrive for less than 10 USD (ebay is my friend)

i going to test microdrive build'in controler to acces to the 1'' SSD from a PC

i'm not confident, but i wanted to test it first (cheap < 10USD) before invest 120 USD for the adapter

Whatever,
we are suspend to your own tests

[ol2]

I've just read your post

instead of adapter (120 USB)
i've just receive a Microdrive for less than 10 USD (ebay is my friend)

i going to test microdrive build'in controler to acces to the 1'' SSD from a PC

i'm not confident, but i wanted to test it first (cheap < 10USD) before invest 120 USD for the adapter

Whatever,
we are suspend to your own tests

Not sure I understand...how will the microdrive connect to the SSD? Is there a 35 PIN ZIF connector inside the microdrive?

[keithwwalker]

Well my Transcend 16GB SSD arrived today.

Damn is it tiny! I believe the thickness is such that you can probably put two SSD's into the space of the Hitachi Microdrive, if only that were possible, as if a ZIF Sata connection existed.

The memory on the board is 4 Samsung K9HBG08U1M 4GB x 8 Bit NAND Flash Memory.

I am still awaiting the ZIF PATA adapter. Then the fun begins (I hope)!

[keithwwalker]

Bad news, the adapter card, is out of production. The usa site took my order and then issued a full refund.

I emailed the UK branch, no luck, and will try the Japanese site.

As far as I am concerned, without that 35 pin ZIF PATA converter, there will be no SSD conversion...grrrr.

[bluesbrothers93]

tell me result
i'd like to get one also

on the jp site it's here
http://www.kk-yec.co.jp/products/5option/adapter.html

[keithwwalker]

The US distributor said they can't source the 35 pin cable, but I remember finding a pdf catalog of a manufacturer.

I am not optimistic...

[keithwwalker]

Update, the companies that sell the disk jockey hard drive duplicators haven't been able to scrounge up the zif to pata adapter.

The company that makes the connector components is called Hi Rose. I am going to see if I can get some zif connector samples and solder something up. Give me a couple of months to see if I can scrounge something up.
UPDATE:
Found a company that makes a generic adapter. It goes from an 0.3mm pitch zif 45 pin socket to round conductors. Problem is that I still need an 35 pin FPC ribbon cable to plug into that adapter and a dedicated 3.3v power supply....

[keithwwalker]

Anyone know where to source a 0.3mm pitch FPC jumper? This is the major impediment to my quest...

[Oberth]

Hello Keithwwalker,

Check out my post #95 in this thread that has a link to a shot of a gutted Microdrive and the little white connecter looks to be the right size which is why bluesbrothers93 is grabbing one as it should technically contain everything you need for a 35pin zif to ide converter.

If you wanted to go the whole hog you could grab a CF to IDE adaptor or you might be lucky enough to cram it into a card reader. Does the Transcend SSD come with the ribbon cable attached like the microdrive by the way none of the pictures show it I think we have up till now all assumed it does.

[bluesbrothers93]

i receive the microdrive i 've ordering.
but the one i get was not the same of the one you have post !

i need to order exactly the same one as you post !
damned

[keithwwalker]

Oberth, thanks for reminding me of message 95.

The critical item is the fpc = Flexible Printed Circuit. That is the big problem with these Hitachi drives is that they seem to be the only ones that use a 0.3mm pitch connector. When you get that tiny, you can not do wire connectors. The smallest you can get with wires is a 0.5mm pitch ffc = flexible flat cable.

Now the critical fpc is shown in photo 2 of the link you provided:
http://mrmacintosh00.spymac.com/ipod/images/dead/02.jpg

I don't know if I want to go from zif, to cf to ide. I have the pin assignments to go to ide, but not cf.

Another concern is running power to the ssd. It requires 3.3vdc. Do CF cards also run on 3.3vdc? If so, then a cf to ide adapter could power up the transcend ssd.

I still have to think about that.

fwiw, the Transcend ssd comes with no fpc, or connectors. It really makes it useless out of the box.

[Oberth]

Hello Keithwwalker,

Compactflash and Microdrives run at 3.3 or 5v. Looking at http://www.compactflash.org/faqs/faq.htm it seems it would just run at the required voltage automatically so that should be ok.

Data wise the beautiful thing about Compact Flash and Microdrives is that they are basically an IDE/ATA drive in disguise the same as the SSD and the Athena drive and while the pinouts are different the actual data sent over them is the same, if you look at a Compact Flash to IDE adaptor http://www2.multithread.co.uk/mtcshop/images/linitx.com/products/Compact_Flash_IDE_Adapter_-_H1_main.jpg there is very little hardware required just enough to fire up the card the data just passes through natively.

So in theory you could go ZIF35--CF--CARD READER to get a USB Harddrive style setup or ZIF35--CF--IDE to achieve the same thing as that adaptor you were looking at but with another connector in the middle.

There are also pinouts here for Compact Flash here http://www.hardwarebook.info/CompactFlash and from the picture you pasted your best bet would be to ebay or google for a drive matching that part number to ensure you get the correct connector.

I'm off on a short break for a few days but I hope this helps you guys :)

PS:- Hi bluesbrothers93 it's a shame about the drive, typical of manufacturers changing things round all the time, could you take some shots so we can see what we need to avoid?

[keithwwalker]

Oberth, I already traced the pinouts from the ide to zif. I believe you are right, everything that I have read seems to indicate that the ssd acts like an ide hard drive.

If you use WM5torage, it says that the microdrive is formatted FAT32.

I have to ask the question again, has anyone tried to put the ssd in the x750x and format it via WM5torage? It could eliminate a lot of headaches...the Hitachi microdrive and Transcend SSD have the same exact pinouts.

[keithwwalker]

I am in the process of ripping apart my X7501 to put in the Transcend SSD and it turns out that the hard drive in the X7501 is a Seagate drive, not a Hitachi!

Here are some links:
http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/consumer_electronics/st1_series/st1.3_series/

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_st1_3.pdf

http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/ce/ST1%20Series/ST1.3%20Series/100409345d.pdf

Pinouts 7 and 9 may be different (rest are the identical).

The Seagate drive pinouts are 'reserved, do not connect', while
the Transcend drive pinouts are '-PDIAG' and 'DASP', respectively.

What do you think?

There is a note in the Seagate pdf, stating that the DASP pinout is for the LED drive indicator and is not nessecary. It just happens that the Transcend unit does have a LED indicator.

PDIAG has an explanation here:
http://www.ele.uri.edu/courses/ele408/s2001/projects/roland_ide/ide.html

BTW, the Seagate units go up to 12GB.

More updates later....

kww

Transcend ssd pinouts:
http://www.transcendusa.com/support/dlcenter/datasheet/SSD10-M%20Datasheet%20v1.5.pdf

[keithwwalker]

Well I have the Transcend unit in the X7501. booted up and then start WM5torag, but I receive the warning message:

'Selected storage device is not appears to be the usual formatted storage card possibly contains the operating system or firmware data. Once you have not selected the "Read Only" mode, if you will accidentally alter/erase system data, you may render your mobile device PERMANENTLY ususable! Proceed at your own risk!'

I then hit OK, and then the unit freezes.

My WinXP box does recognize the drive, BUT it is only sized to ~3mb.

I will try to reformat the drive, but any ideas will be appreciated!

[keithwwalker]

Update. When hooked up via WM5torage, my pc is telling me that there are 3 partitions on the SSD:

Recognized drive E: 3mb
(Unrecognized): 3mb
(Unrecognized): 72mb

The PC is also telling me that the drive is formatted FAT12, and not FAT32.

How to combine all the partitions, format as FAT32, and recognize all the empty unrecognized ssd space?

Anyone?

Update:
I deleted the two smaller partitions and was able to format the largest as either a FAT32 or NFTS drive, both being 78MB in size. Nothing gained, nothing lost; but I am a far way from 16gb!

kww

btw: In looking at the Seagate naming convention, it appears that my drive does not have the fall sensor, as advertised by HTC...

[keithwwalker]

Update:
Just for kicks I formatted the ssd as NFTS and once the x7501 went into sleep mode with WM5torage on, I could not get the screen to turn back on.

I performed soft and hard resets, but the screen will not turn on. Looks like I am going to take out the ssd and put the oem Seagate HDD drive back in.

I contacted tech support at Transcend and they said that the SSD should be returned as it was not partitioned properly. I suspect this is a problem with the Transcend SSD's across the board. The only recourse for a larger drive in the x750x series is the Seagate 12gb drive which I believe is available.

[bluesbrothers93]

english is not my first language

but if you put back the original 8GO drive
in my opinion it should be work

also, why don't you format the SSD in FAT32 ?

i suspect that when you use WM5storage
it was not the SSD that yoou have format
but an part of the ROM !!!!

[keithwwalker]

Upon installation, the ssd was recognized both by WM5torage and Resco Explorer. Filing system was FAT12 (in 3 partitions). That should of told me from the start that Transcend has a bad product.

I did shut down and restart several times before I formatted NFTS. Until that point the unit operated normally.

Now I have to bootload and put the ROM back in.

So the question I have for others who also have the Transcend 16gb SSD is, did you ever get as far as I did? Does anyone wish to continue?

I am returning my SSD back to Transcend. No one there can tell me if my product is defective since they sell so few. It may be worth getting a Seagate 12GB instead.

english is not my first language

but if you put back the original 8GO drive
in my opinion it should be work

also, why don't you format the SSD in FAT32 ?

i suspect that when you use WM5storage
it was not the SSD that yoou have format
but an part of the ROM !!!!

[keithwwalker]

Here are some guts of the x7501, the ssd, and the Seagate drive for comparison; enjoy...
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/keithwwalker/htc%20x7501/DSC05188.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/keithwwalker/htc%20x7501/DSC05189.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/keithwwalker/htc%20x7501/DSC05190.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/keithwwalker/htc%20x7501/DSC05191.jpg

[keithwwalker]

One more:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/keithwwalker/htc%20x7501/DSC05194.jpg

[alese]

Just a couple of comments. As far as I know WM doesn't work with NTFS - I have tried a couple NTFS USB drives with my Advantage and they were never recognized, however when I formatted with FAT32 the system recognized the drive...

It's not neccessary that the SSD is defective, maybe it should only be repartitioned (one primary partition) and then formatted to FAT32, however I realize there is no way you could do that without some kind controller that would enable the drive to be connected to PC or maybe with some FDISK type SW on WM - but I don't know if there is something like this...

[keithwwalker]

That's what I did, I deleted 2 of the 3 partitions whilst connected via WM5torage to an XP PC.

I then reformatted the drive FAT32, and it still was only 78mb.


It's not neccessary that the SSD is defective, maybe it should only be repartitioned (one primary partition) and then formatted to FAT32, however I realize there is no way you could do that without some kind controller that would enable the drive to be connected to PC or maybe with some FDISK type SW on WM - but I don't know if there is something like this...

[bluesbrothers93]

well

i'm just behind you

my x7500 (French) is équiped with the SSD

but i'dont do more by now.

missing time............

[rsolomon]

I contacted tech support at Transcend and they said that the SSD should be returned as it was not partitioned properly. I suspect this is a problem with the Transcend SSD's across the board.

Seems to me that this is consistent with the HTC drivers not recognizing the drive properly....

Did you ask Transcend about an adapter to something else? I would suspect they have ZIF to something adapters in-house, maybe they can help source one?

Richard

[keithwwalker]

Well my big idea was that HTC drivers aren't required if the unit is in USB mode (using WM5torage program). I still think that this is true, and that Transcend has a major problem with their ssd's.

I have looked all over for a zif adapter. There is one adapter out there (and one out of production), but every adapter need a 'jumper' to take the signals from the SSD to the other connector.

The jumper is essentially a miniature version of an IDE cable; it is the male connector that plugs into the female ZIF socket (there are no male ZIF sockets).

I have not been able to find a 35 pin (conductor) jumper. They are just not out there!

I am still not finished with this.
I am still looking at putting another SSD or Seagate 12GB HDD in the 7501, to prove it can be done.

Along those lines, it seems that Samsung will be introducing it's own line of NAND SSD's in the 1 inch form factor in the following capacities:
8gb, MMCQE08GZMPP-MRA
16gb, MCBQE16GZMPP-M1A
32gb, MCCOE32GZMPP-M1A

No details yet, but I am betting on the ZIF interface.

kww

Seems to me that this is consistent with the HTC drivers not recognizing the drive properly....

Did you ask Transcend about an adapter to something else? I would suspect they have ZIF to something adapters in-house, maybe they can help source one?

Richard

[bluesbrothers93]

the samsung SSD have SATA interface

;-(

[Oberth]

Hello Keith,

Congrats on your progress you have been busy while I was away, someone had tried the WM5 storage thing way back in the early days of this thread and they did not have much luck with it as it failed to recognise the SSD completely so it was abandoned back then and we all started looking at more exotic solutions.

One idea I had back at the time of the first WM5 storage tryout was if you can clone the Microdrive using norton ghost or winimage, does the WM5 storage version you have contain have the 'Removable Class' tick box? I assume it does as you have been able to create/delete partitions so you would need to clear that to make the drive a USB harddrive rather than a pen drive.

If you can try I would recommend trying WinImage http://www.winimage.com/ as it has a 30day full function trial and get it to fully clone the microdrive (not sure what the options are but it should have some form of clone drive rather than just a partition) then fit your SSD and write the image back to the drive, in theory if the image writes back sucessfully then you should be able to browse the contents of the drive via windows explorer and if you are lucky the phone should be able to see everything as well. If not it's another thing tried and we can cross it off the list. You might need to do a reset after the write as the partition table will get overwritten when you write back.

Good luck if you give it a try.

[keithwwalker]

No, the new 1.0 inch Samsung SSD's have a PATA interface (presumably a zif connector):
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productListNonflexTable.do?fmly_id=161&sht_id=1

the samsung SSD have SATA interface

;-(

[keithwwalker]

Thanks for the tips Oberth. When I get another SSD from Transcend, I will try again.

Hello Keith, One idea I had back at the time of the first WM5 storage tryout was if you can clone the Microdrive using norton ghost or winimage, does the WM5 storage version you have contain have the 'Removable Class' tick box? I assume it does as you have been able to create/delete partitions so you would need to clear that to make the drive a USB harddrive rather than a pen drive.

If you can try I would recommend trying WinImage http://www.winimage.com/ as it has a 30day full function trial and get it to fully clone the microdrive

[ftoz]

hi, i would like to replace microdrive with compactflash. Can anyone try this? There are some mark in the first posts by replacement 16mb compactflash. Is there space for compactflash size? Where can i get small ribon as is on picture with 4gb hitachi microdrive? There is from some old ipod?

[keithwwalker]

Compact flash dimensions:
3.3mm x 36.4mm x 42.8mm

Microdrive dimensions:
30mmx40mm

There isn't enough room, for the CF card, let alone you would have to figure out a way to replace the proprietary fpc connector.

[ftoz]

I see, but i would like to test it, because compactflash is most spread in public and it will be better updrade. I dont need fpc cable, because you must chanche the pins from zif 35 to compactflash. I only need buy original athenas microdrive ribon to rebuild it. But i dont know, where can i buy it. Or same conector which is on microdrive to long the ogiginal cable.

[ftoz]

hi keithwwalker,why do you stop to play with trascendent ssd? It is great work and maybe miss one step to finish. Do you try mod registry, change some dll or linux on it ?

[keithwwalker]

I don't have the software and skillset to try out registry changes or dll's. The Transcend SSD indicated only 78mb. I do know that SSD's require a virtual 'hard drive' emulator software to mimic a conventional IDE drive and it seems that Transcend does not have ANY drivers for any of their SSD's on their site. I frankly think Transcend has their head up their ass on this one.

If there is software to accomplish this, post some links.

I am getting a replacement Transcend SSD, soon. I will again try to install the ssd one more time.

Thanks

hi keithwwalker,why do you stop to play with trascendent ssd? It is great work and maybe miss one step to finish. Do you try mod registry, change some dll or linux on it ?

[bluesbrothers93]

i agree with him

The problem is taht when you acces to SSD drive using WM5Storage utility
the total of ssd appear to 78 MO (in 3 partitions as 3+3+72)

With PQM v8 or XP disk utilities trough USB mode is the same

in that way maybe is to contact WM5storage utility to ask some help ?!
cause up now is the first utility abble to see SSD in the X75xx

[johnripper]

Has anyone tried to flash to x7500 with spl 3.5Olinex the dumped rom from the x7510.
This rom has drivers for ssd.When you flash it to x7500 everything works exept joypad, extra buttons and micro drive.Maybe with this rom the ssd should work properly with or without wmstorage program.
Sorry for my bad english.
Thanks

[bluesbrothers93]

i 'd like to test it
but only if there is possibility to come back to the original ROM

is that possible ?

[johnripper]

There is allready a thread about it in the rom section, you can flash any rom you want after the x7510 rom, the only thing you need is spl 3.5, dont try this with spl 1.2
thanks

[rsolomon]

I see, but i would like to test it, because compactflash is most spread in public and it will be better updrade. I dont need fpc cable, because you must chanche the pins from zif 35 to compactflash. I only need buy original athenas microdrive ribon to rebuild it. But i dont know, where can i buy it. Or same conector which is on microdrive to long the ogiginal cable.

I thought we debunked this idea already - microdrives come in 2 flavors, CF interface and IDE interface. AFAIK, they're not compatible electrically - and these are all the IDE (ATA) interface. So there's no CF interface on the device, therefore you can't connect a CF device.

(Until someone opened up the HTC, I too thought a CF should be drop-in replacement - but since I've learned about the ATA-ZIF and I think it's a no-go w/o an interface chip of some sort - and then you're COMPLETELY out of physical space....)

Richard

[johnripper]

http://rapidshare.com/files/127060986/x7510_dump.zip

[keithwwalker]

Thanks for the ROM. Now if I could get the joystick to work and extra buttons, that would be nice...

I will give it a shot.

[ftoz]

And do you try modify sectors, header, cylinder in registry? Can wm 6.1 recognize ssd? I think, that is only soft problem, the hardware can be correct. Maybe some driver is missing for chip on sdd, but it can be add by some univerzal driver. Do you try trascend disk dirrectly in pc? Recognize it?

I think 35-zif to compactflash is possible. Look at on copactflash pins only differences are adress pins( more adress pins on cf, zif has 3 adress pins ). But when you look at ide 40 pins it has 3 adress pins too. I have ide-cf reduction at home and it means that compact flash must use only 3 adress pins. Problem i only size, but i havent open athena, if there is another place for compactflash

[ftoz]

Do anyone know, which type ssd is in x7510? Which controler has this sdd? In trascend ssd i see sm223tf, no driver on webpage home. Only for sm222 and registred users

[rsolomon]

I have ide-cf reduction at home

I think there is a chip on that adapter, it's not just wires.

By way of analogy consider this:
Because English and German use (mostly) the same alphabet, translation must consist of re-ordering letters in an English word to make the corresponding German word.

Clearly untrue :) Likewise, just because you see similar names on the signals of two interfaces, that does NOT mean that you can just connect the ones that sound alike together and have it work!

Richard

[keithwwalker]

Quick google of controllers brings up this company:
http://www.siliconmotion.com.tw/en/en2/main.asp
http://www.siliconmotion.com.tw/en/en2/products_FMCC.htm
http://www.siliconmotion.com.tw/en/en2/news_1.asp?nid=40

Searching for an sm223 controller turns up a bunch of Eee PC and Linux nuts, having similar if not identical, problems with variants of the Silicon Motion controller.

http://www3.elphel.com/ru/node/14
http://winston1.net/eee/

Really in over my head on this one...!

Do anyone know, which type ssd is in x7510? Which controler has this sdd? In trascend ssd i see sm223tf, no driver on webpage home. Only for sm222 and registred users

[keithwwalker]

Searching for an sm223 controller turns up a bunch of Eee PC and Linux nuts

Seems that the Eee 701 has an SSD and that the driver is a Silicon Motion SM223A driver. Whether the driver would work for the Transcend SSD which uses a Silicon Motion SM223TF controller chip is anyone's guess at this point; but it would be worth trying to get a copy of that driver!

[johnripper]

any news for the driver?

[keithwwalker]

I think what is needed is an IDE Controller for the SM223AC controller chip, not the SSD driver. The SSD drivers are similar to what is used for any other IDE hard drive (system32\DRIVES\disk.sys & system32\drivers\PartMgr.sys.)

The controller is hardware specific. Check out the thread I started at Eee forum:

http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=44485 (http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=44485)

Problem is, you ask those Eee guys for the set of drivers and they all give different answers, as there are at least 8 different models of Eee, some did not have SSD's. Those with SSD's have different chips (Intel, Samsung etc.).

Best to get the drivers with the Samsung chips.

There is a usb hard drive from Corsair with the same Silicon Motion SM223AC controller and Samsung memory chips. That may be worth trying to pull out the drivers (their website doesn't have any in the download section).

I think the IDE Controller files are important as the SSD's use wear leveling techniques so that it slows the rate of memory capacity degradation over time.

Keith

any news for the driver?

[ftoz]

hi, i see some czech web and i saw that cf pretec 16 gb 233x has sm223tf controler. It means that is same as ssd trascend. Maybe it can be replaced by pretec driver and can work with ssd trascend.

[keithwwalker]

What memorty chips does the Pretec have?

The controller chip actually is a Silicon Motion 'sm223tf AC'. It is very common in USB flash drives of 1 to 4 gb, but impossible to find drivers for.

I received another Transcend ssd. I will try putting in the ssd into my x7501 one more time. If anyone can find the sm223ac drivers, please help!

hi, i see some czech web and i saw that cf pretec 16 gb 233x has sm223tf controler. It means that is same as ssd trascend. Maybe it can be replaced by pretec driver and can work with ssd trascend.

[ftoz]

Can someone export registry from x7510 with working ssd? i wold like to see it, please

[ftoz]

Hi i look at athena registy and i find that main driver is file ata_writeback.dll in windows directory. maybe it can by replaced by x7510 file or some file from device, which use cf cards such as dell axim v51.

hi keithwwalker, did you try x7510 rom with trascend ssd disk?

[keithwwalker]

I have the new Transcend SSD.

Further to your message, in addition to the ata_writeback.dll there is also a file called FATFDS.dll in the ATAEPSON folder in my registry.

In the PCMCIA folder there is also an ATADISK.dll may not be related....

I would like to know a file listing of comparable x7510 SSD drivers in the registry before I rip apart my case again. Those .dll files may help.

Can any of you x7510 owners post some registry screen shots?

[johnripper]

I have the new Transcend SSD.

Further to your message, in addition to the ata_writeback.dll there is also a file called FATFDS.dll in the ATAEPSON folder in my registry.

In the PCMCIA folder there is also an ATADISK.dll may not be related....

I would like to know a file listing of comparable x7510 SSD drivers in the registry before I rip apart my case again. Those .dll files may help.

Can any of you x7510 owners post some registry screen shots?

You can extract part.02 from the dumped rom from x7510 and search the windows directory for those files

[johnripper]

maybe we must test and 1" ide flash disk not only ssd and see?

http://www.offtek.co.uk/item_detail.php?id=538900&maincat=1&subcat=98&off=9f6531410e6afa856a4a176173bd9bbc

[bluesbrothers93]

it's an idee

i'll have a look and tell you if i fallow this way

ok

i find it to my resseler in MLC type for less than 30$

i will order it and tell you results

[johnripper]

it's an idee

i'll have a look and tell you if i fallow this way

ok

i find it to my resseler in MLC type for less than 30$

i will order it and tell you results

details about your resseler?
i would like to order one too

[bluesbrothers93]

no problemo

www.memoryc.com

i ordered it yesterday
http://www.memoryc.com/memory/TS2GIFD10M.html

bad news is that Transcend discontinue that kind of product
in all size 2, 4 and 8 GB

only think it's to find a compagny who have one in stock

i looking in Germany that possibility

[Bluubekt]

I'm keenly following this thread, the HTC Athena seems pretty close to the perfect "mobile companion" to me - if it only wasn't for the paltry storage capacity. If it's possible to perform this upgrade I'll snap one up in a flash (pun intended!). Keep up the good work guys!

Cheers,

Bluubekt

[JonSlater]

I'm keenly following this thread, the HTC Athena seems pretty close to the perfect "mobile companion" to me - if it only wasn't for the paltry storage capacity. If it's possible to perform this upgrade I'll snap one up in a flash (pun intended!). Keep up the good work guys!

Cheers,

Bluubekt

Why is 8Gb on the microdrive plus a possible 16Gb (so far, 32Gb one day) via SD card considered paltry?

[Bluubekt]

Hehe, well, 64gb Compact Flash cards have been available since 2006! 128gb is no doubt around the corner, if not already out there. 8gb simply does not cut it any more and wouldn't even let me store my MP3 collection. It is paltry paltry paltry - and so is 16gb. I would not be interested in a device of this type that has less than 32gb internal storage and that allows the user to upgrade/replace the storage device if/when it fails.

In my view these are artificial restrictions that manufacturers put in place in order to ensure a limited life cycle for their products (similar to the non-replaceable battery in many of Apple's products). In marketing speak this is called "planned obsolescence" - do spare a few minutes to read up on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Bluubekt

[bluesbrothers93]

note that super talent have new 1" ssd disk

http://www.supertalent.com/products/ssd_detail.php?type=1-inch%20ZIF%20IDE

[johnripper]

http://www.cnetx.com/format/
could this help?
can someone try to reformat the 78mb we in ssd?
I tried my ssd to my athena and i had 3 partitions two, but the first was 3mb, second 4mb, and last one 90 mb so i think because i have spl 3.5 and not spl 1.2 maybe what we see with wmstorage is maybe parts of the rom?

[johnripper]

maybe android project could help us partition and format ssd?

[johnripper]

maybe we can use pocketdos and try to partition and format ssd with dos utilities?

[johnripper]

also we can use 4 in 1 cable with a usb cd rom drive with external power and try to boot with pocketdos a windows cd and try to format?

[johnripper]

maybe this thread can help us http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=362344&highlight=windows+95

[johnripper]

roms from x7510 for ssd test http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441684

[keithwwalker]

I have the Transcend 16gb SSD installed and the ROM for the SSD test.

Here is more Transcend SSD info:
http://www.hjreggel.net/hdtechdat/hd-transcend.html

http://www.hjreggel.net/hdtechdat/TS16GSSD10M_t.jpg

Last time I used WM5 Storage aka WM5torage, to format the SSD. That resulted in only ~78mb being recognized. This time, hopefully some controllers for the SM223TF AC will show up. I know that the Eee PC with SSD has the same controllers. Does anyone have an SSD Eee to help out?

If that doesn't work, I just may format it to be an external USB drive and see how large the partitions are.

[keithwwalker]

Question?
How to dump the registry listing from the ROM? I figure, if we can have the listing, then we can have more than 2 people scanning the registry looking for files related to the SSD.
Am I on the right track???

[keithwwalker]

I ran v1.73 of WM5torage and the SSD is recognized under USB connection.

It is titled WM5torage ATHE400 USB Storage Device. It is not formatted so the capacity still reads 0

Question is how to format it through WinXP or Vista????

[PBL1]

If it is recognized it should be listed in the computer folder

open "computer" right click the disk, choose format, you need fat 32.

If it is not there go to

control panel (classic view) open administrative tools>computer management, in the left pane under storage, click disk management
in the right pane at the top there is a description on the disks in your machine, at the bottom there is a graphical representation, down there right click in the disk and choose format, choose fat 32 in the options.

best of luck

[keithwwalker]

With regard to formatting the SSD under USB connection. The only formatting available under my XP unit at home was FAT12. With FAT12, the SSD only had 78mb, dissappointing.

FAT32 wasn't an option, which was strange.

I sent that SSD back to Transcend, and now have the new one installed.

Another problem is that WM5torage locks up with the SSD. Don't know why. I have tried v1.8 and 1.73. I seem to remember that v1.71 worked well but I can't find that CAB

[keithwwalker]

Sure enough, I started up WM5torage and the SSD was recognized with 92mb capacity. I did not reformat the card, partly due to the fact that the partitions are not showing FULL capacity.

I am back where I started with this. I think I need some sort of driver for the SM223AC controller on the SSD itself.

It is frustrating, I know what I DON'T know, but not how to learn it....:confused:

btw, with the std. 7510 ROM, the SSD is not recognized by the 7501...

[keithwwalker]

Update:

upon taking off the USB cord, my device bricked.

This seems to be a problem originating with the 7501.

There seems to be a unique identifier for the HDD. When you remove the HDD and put in a replacement SSD, the SSD is purposely not recognized. I think this is why the SSD only shows disk partitions that do not reveal the full capacity of the card.

Upon activation of the WM5torage, I get a warning (from WM5torage) to the effect that the SSD is not the proper storage device in the unit. It will let me tether, but then upon untethering it bricks...

There has to be some way to find the ID of the HDD in the Registry or ROM. Anyone have any ideas? Am I the only one who has not abandoned hope?!?:o

[PBL1]

i seem to remember that old computers used to fail to recognize high capacity drivers, can remember the reason though some times it was resolved with a bios upgrade

any luck with the 7510 rom? perhaps the 7510+pocket mechanic?

also old linux users used to be very knowledgeable at formatting and partitioning perhaps are there in this forum any of them that could suggest a usable tool?

ultimately what HTC would say it we post the question directly to them? it should go directly to the manufacturer tech department rather than the international representatives, I cannot see why a 9 to 5 working engineer at HTC would care not to give a indication that this modification is possible unless forbidden by management in which case he probably will say is not allowed to discuss, so perhaps a Chinese speaking friend of this forum could contact HTC engineering and see what happen?

[keithwwalker]

The way I see it there are two problems:


The Athena does not recognize the SSD (even when a PC recognizes it via USB cable). As I said, there may be something in the registry (or ROM) that will only recognize the HDD. This is something everyone with registry software can look for. (help!)
There should be a way to 'fool' the Athena into thinking this is an accepted device. The pinouts are the same anyway.
Under Device Manager ('Manage' under My Computer icon), there are two relevant drivers when the SSD is hooked up via USB cable:
First is the 'disk drives' and those drivers seem to be correct:
disk.sys
partmgr.sys
Second there is 'storage volumes' and the ssd is listed there too, but under a generic driver:
volsnap.sys
This is not the correct driver IMO. That is why the partitions are undersized.

There are also the following categories in the Device Manager that may be more applicable:
IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers
PCMCIA and Flash Memory Devices

and if you look up info on the Eee PC with SSD, it is the same controller and NAND memory. And it has the proper driver SM223:

http://beta.ivancover.com/wiki/images/2/27/Eee_flashdrive_devicemanager.png

I may buy an Eee PC just to rip the drivers, but that costs money....
Another alternative is to talk to Silicon Motion and see what the cost is for the controller confirguration software. But that may be unavailable as is stated here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eee-pc.de%2Fboard%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D11%26t%3D3371&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eee-pc.de%2Fboard%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D11%26t%3D3371&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en)

This may not be worth the trouble as Samsung has announced 32 and 64GB SSD that will fit inside the Athena:

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/products/flash/ssd/2008/images/product/lineup_img05.jpg

35pin ZIF
40.0x30.0x t
t : 32GB 5.48 / 8.0g
16GB 3.48 / 5.5g
8GB 2.28 / 3.8g

[johnripper]

The way I see it there are two problems:


The Athena does not recognize the SSD (even when a PC recognizes it via USB cable). As I said, there may be something in the registry (or ROM) that will only recognize the HDD. This is something everyone with registry software can look for. (help!)
There should be a way to 'fool' the Athena into thinking this is an accepted device. The pinouts are the same anyway.
Under Device Manager ('Manage' under My Computer icon), there are two relevant drivers when the SSD is hooked up via USB cable:
First is the 'disk drives' and those drivers seem to be correct:
disk.sys
partmgr.sys
Second there is 'storage volumes' and the ssd is listed there too, but under a generic driver:
volsnap.sys
This is not the correct driver IMO. That is why the partitions are undersized.

There are also the following categories in the Device Manager that may be more applicable:
IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers
PCMCIA and Flash Memory Devices

and if you look up info on the Eee PC with SSD, it is the same controller and NAND memory. And it has the proper driver SM223:

http://beta.ivancover.com/wiki/images/2/27/Eee_flashdrive_devicemanager.png

I may buy an Eee PC just to rip the drivers, but that costs money....
Another alternative is to talk to Silicon Motion and see what the cost is for the controller confirguration software. But that may be unavailable as is stated here:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eee-pc.de%2Fboard%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D11%26t%3D3371&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=de&tl=en

This may not be worth the trouble as Samsung has announced 32 and 64GB SSD that will fit inside the Athena:

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/products/flash/ssd/2008/images/product/lineup_img05.jpg

35pin ZIF
40.0x30.0x t
t : 32GB 5.48 / 8.0g
16GB 3.48 / 5.5g
8GB 2.28 / 3.8g

can you please give us a link for wmstorge1.71

[johnripper]

yesterday i received the ExcelStor GStor Mini 8GB http://www.hjreggel.net/hdtechdat/hd-hitachi.html i will remove the hitachi micro drive and conect the ssd and format it.
then i will try again to put it back to my x7500 and see the results...

[cash365]

Have you tried the Partedit32.exe?
Ultimate tool for partitioning and very small too!

[keithwwalker]

Thanks I will play around with that....
here
ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/

Have you tried the Partedit32.exe?
Ultimate tool for partitioning and very small too!

[keithwwalker]

No luck with any partition utilities, as they don't recognize the ssd. I guess it is because the ssd is recognized as an USB drive and not a hard drive.

On a more positive note, the SSD was recognized by the x7501 after I reformatted it from my XP pc. This is a major step as I never got this far before.

I can't figure out why it was suddenly recognized, but there were definitely a couple of soft resets before it happened.

The drive is now referred to as a 'Mounted Volume' on the 7501.
From the pc/usb is it called 'Removable Disk' or 'WM5torag ATHE100 USB Device' under the Disk Manager information.

The bad news is that the partitions still don't add up to 16GB.

Right now there are only 3mb recognized, but I believe that if I combine all three partitions, they can get up to 90+mb. Not so, I deleted and combined the partitions and the device bricked....

Clearly, I see a solution. I have to get the SSD controller drivers, which hopefully can be ripped from an SSD from an Eee PC.

Hopefully I can restore my 7501 and SSD so that the SSD is recognized again....

[cash365]

Sorry my mistake about the Symantec utility... I should have thought it before posting... :o
Hmm another thing came to my mind... It was when I had a Treo 650 and the system couldn't recognize an SD more than 2 GB, but someone found out that if you partitioned the card then the system could read the SD as 2 separate! That was until someone found the sdhc drivers for our device...
I think Treonauts must have something about it...:confused:

[keithwwalker]

Well I have the ssd restored to it's 3mb size and it is recognized by both the pc and x7501. At least the result is repeatable.

I believe that if I can locate the SM223 controller drivers then the full 16gb will be realized.

All this is Transcend's fault, I believe that they never loaded drivers on their SSD's.

Next step is to either get Eee PC SSD drivers or get a portable USB SSD based flash memory that also uses the 16GB SSD.

[kwongwt]

Hi keith,

I was also trying to find a replacement for the MD and I came across this from Seagate's 12G MD info :

The Identify Device command (command code ECH) transfers information about the drive to the host following power up. The data is organized as a single 512-byte block of data, whose contents are shown in the table on
page 28. All reserved bits or words should be set to zero. Parameters listed with an “x” are drive-specific or vary with the state of the drive.

(The original doc : http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/ce/ST1%20Series/ST1.3%20Series/100409345d.pdf)

SO looks like there is a block sending the ID to the 7501 when power up. If you can make a true image to the SSD than maybe the 7501 will think it is seeing the MD.

Dunno if that's useful.... (and sorry if this has already been mentioned. I didn't go through all the posts)

[xfiver]

keithwwalker,

If you have exhausted all ideas please check these 2 ideas out..

FIRST
=====

As you can see various small sizes of disk space e.g. 3Mb and can actually use them, lets assume that electrically and driverwise you are ok. Lets assume its an addressing problem. In the other tread on md's I posted ....

===========================================
I just found from the Hitachi site for the 8GB MD

..................................MD 3K8-8...........SSD 16 GB
................ .................=======...........========
No. physical heads...............2.....................n/a
No. Logical heads...............16.....................15
No. Sectors per Track.........63.....................63
No. cylinders...............15,501................33,1 49
No. Sectors...........15,625,008..........31,325,805 (*)

Strangely the 16GB SSD has 15 logical heads.

I wonder if any disk drive expert/AP developers could explain whether this is the reason why the SSD is not working ?

(*) calculated by me.
==============================================

On Wiki it says "The capacity of an HDD can be calculated by multiplying the number of cylinders by the number of heads by the number of sectors by the number of bytes/sector (most commonly 512). "

(please use your exact disk space and check this)

So if you have 3,000,000 bytes

3,000,0000 = C x H x S x 512

or 5859 = C x H x S which looks completely wrong.


you should have 33,149 x 15 x 63 x 512 = 16gb aprox.

Is it possible to check what values C,H, S you are using. Also note the number of physical and logical heads above, 2 and 16 for MD and n/a and 15 for the SSD. I feel you cannot move forward until these values are correct in the x7500.

Hope this helps


SECOND
======

I saw this on the Hitachi FAQ......


"Why will my Hitachi Microdrive work in my PC, but not in my camera or PDA?

Most likely, the drive is a white label (True IDE) version of the Hitachi Microdrive instead of the blue label (CFII+) Microdrive. The majority of white label Microdrives were intended for use as embedded storage in specific systems and may or may not function correctly in another environment."


The way I read this is the MD is a blue label while the SSD is a white label. Does anyone recognise these terms and confirm if this is a problem?

The FAQ question implies the md does not work at all, but Keith can see 3mb+ plus so I think the addressing idea above is the first idea to check out.


Hope these help.

[keithwwalker]

I have been trying to decipher the registry and so far this is what I have found:



HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Profiles\ ATAEPSON\FATFS contents:

DataCacheSize 0x1000 (4096)
EnableCache 0x1 (1)
EnableDataCacheWarm 0x1 (1)
EnableFatCacheWarm 0x1 (1)
EnableWriteBack 0x1 (1)
FatCacheSize 0x200 (512)
Flags 0x280014 (2621460)
Format Tfat 0x1 (1)

These seem to be the parameters for formatting the stock microdrive.

Of interest is whether the x7501 makes the host PC think that the microdrive or ssd has these parameters whether the onboard formatter formats the drive or not.

From discussion with other members offlist, it seems that SSD's that are like the Transcend unit are/should actually be formatted like a memory card, with a 32kb byte/sector, not 512 byte/sector.

So perhaps the FatCacheSize should be 32, and not 512; to 'fool' the x7501 into sizing the sectors correctly.

I wonder about the other settings though, especially DataCacheSize 4096?

I will be scrubbing msdn's Windows Embedded Developer Center's Library, in an attempt to decipher more of this information.

It would be great if adjustment of the registry settings will allow this 16GB upgrade (to be followed by 32 and 64gb?).

kww

[keithwwalker]

Registry Value/Type Applies to Description

DataCacheSize: REG_DWORD
FAT, TFAT
Indicates the size of the data cache, in number of sectors. If set to zero, FATFS determines the best cache size to use.
EnableCache: REG_DWORD
FAT, TFAT, extended FAT (exFAT)
Set to 1 to enable caching. Zero disables caching.
EnableDataCacheWarm: REG_DWORD
FAT, TFAT
Set to 1 to enable pre-warming of the data cache. That is, on initialization, the cache is pre-loaded to capacity with data.
EnableFatCacheWarm: REG_DWORD
FAT, TFAT
Set to 1 to enable pre-warming of the FAT cache. That is, on initialization, the cache is pre-loaded to capacity with data.
EnableWriteBack: REG_DWORD
FAT, TFAT
Set to 1 to enable a write-back cache. Set to zero to use a write-through cache.
This setting applies only to Windows CE 5.0 and later.
FatCacheSize: REG_DWORD
FAT, TFAT
Set to the size of the FAT cache, in number of sectors.
If set to zero, FATFS determines the best cache size to use.
For more information, see CacheSize Registry Subkey (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa914659.aspx).

[keithwwalker]

Given the above, the question is should the DataCacheSize (sector) size be 63 or 64? The cache size should be 32kb and the sector is 2x that value. BUT, Transcend literature states a 63 sector size (actual capacity).

Perhaps the actual capacity is not equal to total capacity and 1 of 64 sectors are not available....

[Baenwort]

Thanks for the work Keithwwalker. I'm glad you got farther in your efforts then I did. I've got a new working x7501 and another Transend 16GB SSD that is on my desk waiting for the next step. This time I'm waiting a bit before I start hacking at my x7501.

If after the holidays I find some time to install the SSD do you have any advice to be able to follow your footsteps in not killing my x7501 this time? :)

[johnripper]

keithwwalker the flex cable for the micto drive in x7500 is a 35 pin zif, but at the other end i see at service manual the zif is bigger, is it a 40 pin zif?
if it is a 40 pin zif at the other side we can use an ide to 1.8" ssd adapter try to format the ssd to a pc and then put it back to x7500 and see the results.
thanks

[hjreggel]

Hi all, I think it's finally time to jump in...

First: I don't have any adapter to connect the Transcend SSD to an ATA host, so don't know the actual parameters.

The stated value "63" is the sector number of logical CHS mapping. This is not related to the cluster size. It just means that the SSD pretends to have 63 sectors per track. However, if the SSD really identifies as having 63 sectors per track, the size would be odd, i.e. not a multiple of HxS. The actual size of 16,039,018,496 Bytes would match a mapping of 61184/16/32, but some sources state that the maximum allowed cylinder count would be 16383, although the cylinder field is 16-bit.

Original:I know that some Transcend CF cards report a cylinder count of more than 16383, which *could* confuse some ATA hosts. Even if the mapping would be xx/16/63, the cylinder count would be more than 16383. Edit: I double-checked my notes, and realized that it's the other way round: Transcend CF report 16383/16/63 for media of more than 8GB, while some other manufacturers use cylinder numbers of 16384 and more. This means that it's important that the host uses LBA instead of CHS mapping.

The ribbon from the 35-pin ZIF socket to 40-pin ZIF is not compatible to the 40-pin ZIF ata connector of 1.3" and 1.8" disks.

[hjreggel]

Those who have access to an appropriate USB bridge from one of the USB keys like shown there...

Hitachi Microdrives (http://www.hjreggel.net/hdtechdat/index.html#hd-hitachi.html)
Seagate Microdrives (http://www.hjreggel.net/hdtechdat/index.html#hd-seagate.html)

If you connect the SSD through USB and run my tool "usbid.exe", it should
show 14GB, see the link ">>> usbid.exe <<<" there:
Info on USB IDs (http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/index.html#info-readerid.html)

My SSD shows as

USBSTOR 0: USB\Vid_0aa6&Pid_1501\SN0000000014 Rev_0033
USBDISK 1: 14GB
USBSTOR\Disk&Ven_TS16GSSD&Prod_10-M&Rev_0811\SN0000000014&0___
or
USBSTOR 0: USB\Vid_0aa6&Pid_1603\SN0000000015 Rev_0033
USBDISK 1: 14GB
USBSTOR\Disk&Ven_TS16GSSD&Prod_10-M&Rev_0811\SN0000000015&0

depending on which of the two different boards I use.

If you see the TS16GSSD ID, but dashes "---" instead of "14GB", the SSD controller is detected, but memory is not mapped.

[bluesbrothers93]

i find this datasheet with 8Gb, 12GB and 15GB

http://www2.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/975000-999999/992072-da-01-en-EXCELSTOR_8GB_1z_USB2_ESGSMS7008-W_WE.pdf

here for more details
http://www.gstorplus.com/products/gstormini.asp

[bluesbrothers93]

i've just ordering the 8gb GSTor one
and
2 differents verbatim Storn'Go HDrive 1" model

for testing them with Transcend FlashDrive.......

[bluesbrothers93]

i've just receive today the GStor Mini 8GB

Note that the microdrive inside Gstor it is the same that our X7500 are equiped

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5646/excelstorexsmalljb8.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6196/excelstor2exsmallrd8.jpg

X7500 8gb HD read speed Test

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/642/8gbx7500hitachimicrodrizd2.jpg

[keithwwalker]

I think the 35 pin zif fpc is proprietary and there is no way to convert to a 40 pin. I have even looked for generic 35 pin zif fpc converters to PATA, and no luck...

keithwwalker the flex cable for the micto drive in x7500 is a 35 pin zif, but at the other end i see at service manual the zif is bigger, is it a 40 pin zif?
if it is a 40 pin zif at the other side we can use an ide to 1.8" ssd adapter try to format the ssd to a pc and then put it back to x7500 and see the results.
thanks

[bluesbrothers93]

microdrive EXCELSTOR
GSTOR Mini 8GB sur USB (8/12 et 15GB sont annoncé)

Writting test make with .avi of 374 Mo

1e test => 6,23 Mo/s write test
2e test => 6,23 Mo/s write test
Not so bad for Microdrive Hitachi !
2x speeder than microdrive Hitachi from my x7500 ?!

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5646/excelstorexsmalljb8.jpg


http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/4485/excelstor8gbsmallgt0.jpg

test with microdrive 8GB Hitachi from HTC X7500
it look same from the GStor mini
But very slow write speed with X7500 microdrive ?!
maybe there'is spécifique driver on the GSTOR Hitachi microdrive
that increase access write speed.......

1e test => 2,44 mo/s write test
2e test => 2,44 mo/s write test

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/642/8gbx7500hitachimicrodrizd2.jpg

[bluesbrothers93]

1st it's the Gstor 8GB HITACHI microdrive
2nd it's the X7500's (inside GStor) 8GB HITACHI microdrive

no differences appear....

next steap is to test Transcend Flash disk

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3057/usbidgstor8gbvsx75008gbkj8.jpg

[johnripper]

any news about ssd formatting?

[keithwwalker]

Usually when I try to format the SSD, it doesn't work and then I have to reflash the 7510 rom and then the AP4.0 rom in succession. It is a real pain, so I am taking a break until after the holiday.

My current thinking is that the 'Format Hard Drive' program in the 7500/7501 rom has registry settings that can be changed. If they can then fool the 7500/7501 into thinking it is a HDD, then it may work. Problem is, in the 'Format Hard Drive' program registry, there are only 2 ID's that are recognized.

I don't know how ID's are created in the registry, once I figure that out, I will give it another try.

any news about ssd formatting?

[johnripper]

sorry but i was asking bluesbrothers93

[bluesbrothers93]

i test nuestoragemanager

and he give more detail

Part 2 is indicated as "mounted"

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3307/31122008265small2wb1.jpg

[bluesbrothers93]

no more tests for the moments

i will look it again on 1st weekend of 2009

happy new years !

to be continue........

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/856/05012009267smalluf1.jpg

[bluesbrothers93]

I receive my 2 differents Verbatim Storn'Go 1"HD USB Stick

1st one "8GB" as bigger form factor than 2nd one "12GB"

the 2nd one "12Gb" as very similar "clone" of The 8Gb ExelStor that i already receve

below picture and speed test comming

The Storn'Go 8GB is comming with CORNICE DRAGON 8GB Microdrive manufactured in 2006

My writting test give 6,9 Mo/s who is very very good !!!
i will connect the 2 others Toshiba Microdrive to understand if it's the Verbatim interface
that give that good results !!!

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7766/storngo8gbcornicedragonqq7.jpg

[bluesbrothers93]

I put the 8GB Toshiba 1" microdrive from the ExelStor Module
inside the USB Storn'Go module instead of the 8GB CORNICE modele DRAGON 1" microdrive original.

i've got a 9,5 Mo/s phénoménal writting test (374 Mo AVI) !!!

wahoo !!!

i will test the original Toshiba 1" microdrive from my X7500 that give slower result than newest one in Execelstor USB modul

i've just test the 12GB Verbatim 1" (very similar to ExelStor 8GB) USB Stick
in writting Test of 374 Mo AVI
i've got a 10,7 Mo/s result !!!!

The 12GB 1" HD is also a Cornice modele "Panthere" manufactured on 2006

i will put in the 2x Toshiba and 1x Cornice Drive to test it in this new Verbatim USB interface/enclosure

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE VERBATIM 12GB STORN'GO USB ENCLOSURE
CAN'T BE USE TO CONNECT 1" THOSHIBA and TRANSCEND 1" 16GB SSD
The connector system is different and necessite spécifique napp to be used !

[bluesbrothers93]

Good news

I have put the 1" Transcend Flash SSD module in Verbatim 8GB Storn'go 1" USB module
and it's directly recognise frome my PC with 14,9 GO free !!!

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/877/ssdts16gss10mbis2sp3.jpg

[bluesbrothers93]

i've got a 9,5 Mo/s writting speed for the 374 MO .avi

and >25 mo/s reading speed

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4526/ts16gssd10msmallam3.jpg

[bluesbrothers93]

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3043/ts16gssd10musbidic8.jpg

[mfschneider]

Congratulations, bluesbrothers93, This is a HUGE step forward! And the speed results are great, I expected something like that from the Transcend data sheet. One more reason to get this SSD going. If I only had the means to contribute *sigh*

R, Michael

[bluesbrothers93]

some of last tests let me think that the implementation of SSD in the X7500
is very close to US

in my opinion,
solution is in the HD / SSD formating and MBR specification

we will see

to be continue......

************************************************** *****
LAST MICRODRIVE REPLACEMENTS TESTS
I try to put the ExelStor Microdrive instead of the original X7500 Microdrive

The 2 Microdrive are similar and are manufactured by Toshiba

When i put the ExelStor Microdrive instead the original one

the X7500 don't see it, like when we have try to put the Transcend SSD

This résult is a GOOD information, cause we know that the Transcend SSD is not in cause of the X7500 non recognation

That tell us that there is minimum 2 solutions :

- Special "Format" and maybe special files needed for Microdrive / SSD recognation by the X7500
my feeling is two partition mounted in One

And / Or

- the X7500 is configurate to work with a specific Microdrive ID number.
in this case we need to access MBR to put original Microdrive ID number inside the new Microdrive/SSD

Good news, that now we have USB interface to access Microdrive from PC

to be continue

[bluesbrothers93]

For who that can be interrest in comparaison of differents kind of USB storage
i 've made a dedicated thread with a lot of differents USB stick and flash memory card comparaison here
http://www.mobifrance.com/pdaforum/showthread.php?threadid=125501

OK, i find a path

i'm sure that we need to format Microdrive under TFAT

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa915463.aspx

Note:
the additional copy operations inherent in TFAT handling cause a decrease in performance.

that it's certenly reason of lowest speed read/write result obtain from Original X7500 8GB Toshiba 1" Microdrive compare the ExcelStor GStor-mini 8GB Toshiba 1" Microdrive !!!

[hjreggel]

Cornice - that's incredible! Where did you get those devices? I tried several resources, but only got Hitachi and Seagate Microdrives.

In case you have no use for the Cornice drives, I'd be interested.

[bluesbrothers93]

they was inside the 2 Verbatim Storn'Go 8GB and 12GB that i have order in US via Amazone.com

First one was sell buy amazon and the other one sell (i need to check) ....

around 40 USD each

[xdawis]

I´am using an external microdrive from trekstor with my athena since a few months, without any problems. When I read this forum i just guess that this drive is tfat formatted, ´cause all the advatages of security i feel. Do you think that´s right?

[bluesbrothers93]

120GB microdrive ?!

you mean 1,8" or 2,5" i suppose ?

for TFAT, not that only Internal device can be acces in TFAT partionning
( i thing )

i will test to acces Original 1" Microdrive (TFAT) via X7500 USB Host

we will see

[xdawis]

The 4in1 works with USB devices HDD from tekstor.
I only tried the 1,8´´ microdevice first with 60GB and now I´m using a 120 gb drive.
It works fantastic without any separate powersupply with the athena for about 2 hrs. The consumption of energy is comparable with a normal sd-card.

[Oberth]

Congrats on your progress so far those miniusb hd's finally have a use :), regarding the TFAT & MBR issue have you tried using Norton Ghost or similar to clone the original drive then write back to one of the other drives like the one from the Excelstore or even the SSD as this should then be an exact copy including any funny MBR and file system that the orignal uses this might then make the x7500 recognise the drive if not then we would know other things are blocking it from happening.

If you don't have Ghost then you can always find it on a popular bootable cd that's on the net, if you are a more upstanding member of society there are free linux equivalents which are listed here and a couple are on livecd's http://www.wareprise.com/2008/06/24/free-norton-ghost-alternatives/ they should provide the same (if not better) funtionality.

EDIT: Having a quick read of the link I sent and CloneZilla sound pretty good as it does a low level copy if it cannot detect the originals file system if not then PING sounds like a good second bet.

Good luck with your work :)

[bluesbrothers93]

Thank you for those usefull informations

Please note that i will be off for 2 weeks.

to be continue

[johnripper]

I have used The 8Gb ExelStor with the ssd pluged and with harddiskclonerpro i have cloned the x7500 hd using usb to pc utility sector by sector. Then after testing the ssd to pc i saw that it was working ok with all the contents from x7500, even the label of the disk was the same (TFAT).Then i pluged the ssd to X7500 and boommmmm no microdrive, i think the X7500 CAN'T HANDLE THE SSD EVEN IF IT IS IN TFAT FORMAT....

[keithwwalker]

I believe the registry has to be 'fooled' into thinking it is an accepted drive ID identifier. I remember in looking at the registry, there are two distinct ID's for the hard drive (possibly one for the Hitachi, and one for the Seagate).

I have not figured out how to ascertain hardware ID's for use in the registry. I think that is the secret to putting the 16GB Transcend SSD in the 7500/7501 (also remember I am hoping for the Samsung 64GB SSD out this year!)

I have used The 8Gb ExelStor with the ssd pluged and with harddiskclonerpro i have cloned the x7500 hd using usb to pc utility sector by sector. Then after testing the ssd to pc i saw that it was working ok with all the contents from x7500, even the label of the disk was the same (TFAT).Then i pluged the ssd to X7500 and boommmmm no microdrive, i think the X7500 CAN'T HANDLE THE SSD EVEN IF IT IS IN TFAT FORMAT....

[johnripper]

i have used the same program and i have cloned the seagate disk (original x7500) to the hitachi one, the one from 8Gb ExelStor and the X7500 still does not recognize the cloned one so maybe there is a problem with the cloning program, we need a program to clone TFAT FORMAT to be continued.....

[rsolomon]

I believe the registry has to be 'fooled' into thinking it is an accepted drive ID identifier. I remember in looking at the registry, there are two distinct ID's for the hard drive (possibly one for the Hitachi, and one for the Seagate).

I have not figured out how to ascertain hardware ID's for use in the registry. I think that is the secret to putting the 16GB Transcend SSD in the 7500/7501 (also remember I am hoping for the Samsung 64GB SSD out this year!)

That makes a bit of sense - could you post the relevant sections of the registry?

Richard

[johnripper]

i have found a program that can copy any mbr as it is, maybe is usefull..

[johnripper]

here is the manual from the program i used for cloning X7500 microdrive, any sugestions about settings for perfect clone?

[keithwwalker]

I will study the registry this weekend.

It will take some time, my pc just crashed and am switching to Ubuntu - it is really good so far!

That makes a bit of sense - could you post the relevant sections of the registry?

Richard

[Suluben]

Hi everyone

I'm new posting here as you can see but I've been around for a while reading this threading since it almost started.

I've got a X7501 unlocked and upgraded to WM6 and as many of you, I also wanted to upgrade mine to 16GB with a much faster solution than the 8GB Hitachi slow drive.

I also bought the Transcend TS16GSSD10-M SSD as some of you did, followed everyone's reasoning to find an answer and even started doing some programming with VS2008 for this platform.

Unfortunately I can't go anywhere because it looks that the system is returning errors from FindFirstPartition or FindFirstStore C++ functions and is leading me to realise that perhaps the OS is really not loading the correct driver for this new disk thus the errors when asking the system for Stores or Partitions.

I also tried several disk tools like Pocket Mechanics, Storage tools, nueStorageManager and the Format Microdrive and all of them gives me no extra HDD access rather than the SD card. TrueFFS is internal, even if you remove the HDD or SSD. Is like trying to access in the old days to a USB flash disk without even the USB port driver.

Taking a look at the registry I could find some links to the Microdrive (search for "ATAEPSON") and a mspart.dll and some other references to dlls around this storagemanager keys making me think that in fact it is what we are needing here: a dll to be loaded by the OS at boot time to low level access this new SSD.

Having asked HTC support directly I was told that they are not keen on giving me a driver and saying that my warranty is voided now since I opened my device. That's what they care for and not for happy customers.

So, indeed, scavenging the x7510 and understanding what dlls this device loads to access the 16GB SSD really would be a good approach.

Lets not leave this thread to die. My device is opened, I need it hardly but I don't want to close it before I find a final answer: is it or not possible?!

Thank you all. I'll keep you posted from my advances on this matter too.
Cheers
Sulu

[keithwwalker]

Here are some registry values that for the microdrive. I have boldfaced the values that I think are important.

Specifically, I think that the 'IClass' , I believe are unique identifiers for the particular piece of hardware.

Why are there two IClass identifiers in the microdrive drivers registry folders?
Because HTC used two sources for their 8mb microdrives, Hitachi and Seagate!
I think the Transcend SSD is not recognized because the IClass identifier is not in the registry. (If I knew the IClass for the SSD I would manually enter it)

You will also see that I have underlined some registry values. I believe that these values can be tweaked so that they represent the values that the Transcend SSD have for partitions, sectors, cache etc.

I think that if the IClass is known, the 7500/7501 units can be 'fooled' into recognizing the SSD and then the values for the FATFS can be modified to suit.

There are even auto format and auto partitions registry values, which I believe would defer the settings to the Transcend SSD controller itself and we wouldn't have to worry about most of the settings (could be left blank).

Please help study these settings. I am a newcomer to the registry and what I write may be in error (feel free to correct me!).

Samsung will release a 1.0inch 64gb this year, and if we can crack the Transcend 16gb SSD, then 64gb won't be hard at all!

Keith Walker

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\ATAEPSON:


Dll = ATA_WRITEBACK.DLL
Folder = EPSON-ATA
FSD = FATFSD.DLL
GAccelerationThreshold = 1280
GDurationThreshold = 100
IClass =


{A4E7EDDA-E575-4252-9D6B-4195D48BB865}
{8DD679CE-8AB4-43c8-A14A-EA4963FAA715}

NormalTimeout = 10
Prefix = DSK
Profile = ATAEPSON
RegBase = 201326592
ReleaseTimeout = 4
SectorSize = 8192

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\PCMCIA\ATADISK:


Dll = ATADISK.DLL
IClass = {8DD679CE-8AB4-43c8-A14A-EA4963FAA715}
Ioctl = 4
Prefix = DSK
Profile = PCMCIA

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\PCMCIA\Detect\50:


Dll = ATADISK.DLL
Entry = DetectATADisk

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Profiles\ ATAEPSON:


FATFS

DataCacheSize = 64
EnableCache = 1
EnableDataCacheWarm = 1
EnableFatCacheWarm = 1
EnableWriteBack = 1
FatCacheSize = 32
Flags = 2621460
FormatTfat = 1

Autoformat = 0
AutoMount = 1
AutoPart = 0
DefaultFileSystem = FATFS
Folder = MicroDrive
MountFlags = 0
PartitionDriver = mspart.dll

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\OEM\FormatMidroDrive:


Folder = Flash Disk

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ControlPanel\MyCPL\14:


Description = Format Microdrive
File = Format Microdrive.exe
Name = Format Microdrive

[AlexVallat]

I've been following this thread for a while, but so far unwilling to actually open up my Athena.

I can help demystify IClass for you, though. This indicates that Storage Manager will be used to manage the driver.

{A4E7EDDA-E575-4252-9D6B-4195D48BB865} just means its a block driver, I think, and {8DD679CE-8AB4-43c8-A14A-EA4963FAA715} means its a power-manageable block device.

Both are standard, not specific to the Hitachi or Seagate microdrive.

ref: <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa447462.aspx>, <http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms890889.aspx>

[keithwwalker]

I thought those numbers were GUID's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globally_Unique_Identifier
Still learning every day!

[bluesbrothers93]

http://blog.laptopmag.com/vmedias-mini-optical-coming-to-netbooks-and-beyond

Nothing in direct link with the thread but //

[colonel]

I am completely new to this thread, and therefore completely naive, but I know that its common in certain parts of the electronic industry to lock down hard disks.

So its (i) either locked to a key or (ii) we just need to get the generic driver (I reckon this is unlikely)

For example, on the xbox (original), you can't change the hard disk.
Why ? because every hard disk has a hardware id. This id is checked by software in the firmware on boot up.
The only way to solve it with the xbox was to actually remove the firmware chip and replace it with a hacked one.

I have no idea why HTC used this on a device like the Athena, but there you go!

I suspect its also similar to simunlock procedures, where the matched key is hidden somewhere in firmware to fool unlockers. The only contribution of the driver is probably to know where to look to find the key (which is why a specific and not generic driver is needed).

On the xbox MS even went further (or did they!), the key was also an encryption key, so without the decrypt algorithm you can't read the MBR or FAT at all.

[lifelion]

Hi completely new to this thread too.
Before upgrading the HDD, from what I understood, noone has managed to replace a (e.g. broken) HDD.
I noticed a HDD test in page 62 of the Athena 100 service guide. It may help to detect whether a replacement HDD is not recognized because of a HW or a SW limitation?

[Suluben]

Hi Lifelion

The idea is not to replace a broken HDD but to upgrade it to a bigger HDD, lower consumption and faster access speeds, all in on a SSD. The Hitachi or Seagate disks that comes with the Athena are normal disk with a spinning disk inside, not so good for shocks, lazy and high power consumption, and could be easily upgraded if it wasn't this software problem, not hardware.

Thanks
Sulu

[lifelion]

The idea is not to replace a broken HDD but to upgrade it to a bigger HDD, lower consumption and faster access speeds, all in on a SSD.Hello Sulu,
I completely agree. I just see successfully replacing a HDD as a step to then upgrading to SSD.

[lifelion]

I try to put the ExelStor Microdrive instead of the original X7500 Microdrive

The 2 Microdrive are similar and are manufactured by Toshiba

When i put the ExelStor Microdrive instead the original one

the X7500 don't see it, like when we have try to put the Transcend SSD

This résult is a GOOD information, cause we know that the Transcend SSD is not in cause of the X7500 non recognationIs the ExelStor Microdrive at least seen using the HDD Detect Test?
Link removed - no longer valid

[johnripper]

noone has the micro sd with diagnostic HDD Detect Test so we cant try this

[Suluben]

This diagnostic software seems great. Who can get it?

[mfschneider]

Hi all,

it's been a while since I've looked by here, and found this thread idle since several weeks. So it's time to revive it. One thing that especially caught my attention was this screen shot:

i test nuestoragemanager

and he give more detail

Part 2 is indicated as "mounted"

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3307/31122008265small2wb1.jpg

@ bluesbrothers93: could you please post some more screen shots of nuestoragemanager showing the partition properties for partions Part01 and Part02?

I think the solution to get the SSD to work is in the correct partioning. To me this picture does not look like a partition, but the rest of the unpartitioned hard disk space! Background: when HDs are partitioned, the partitioner always rounds the allocated space to complete "cylinders", i.e. track/head combinations. In older disks this was correct as there was a one-to-one correspondance of track/head/sector addressing done by the software. With the advent of LBA addressing (Logical Block Address) the disk manufacturers were free to use any disk internal mapping. The result was that logical cylinders (as seen by the software) no longer corresponded to the real internals of the disk and there are in general some (thousand) sectors left over which do not fit into the partitioning scheme. These leftovers sum up to a few megabytes up to almost gigabytes on newer large capacity drives.

So it could be that the 79.92 MB we see on the SSD in reality are exactly this unallocated rest! But where are the 15+ GB this SSD holds? Well, I expect them to be in the first partition as shown here:
Good news

I have put the 1" Transcend Flash SSD module in Verbatim 8GB Storn'go 1" USB module
and it's directly recognise frome my PC with 14,9 GO free !!!

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/877/ssdts16gss10mbis2sp3.jpg

Next question: if Windows does show the 14,9 GB, but WM6 (or athena HD driver) does not show them, it is obvious that WM6 is hiding the first partition! Why? I have no idea, maybe WM6 expects the first partition on the disk to be some (hidden) system partition.

But how can we tackle this? I would suggest the following procedure:

1) under Windows delete all partitions on the SSD, each one, the disk must be completely unpartitioned.

2) check how this unpartitioned SSD looks like as seen by WM6; we should see some 15 GB free space

3) using Windows create a FAT partition of, say, 500 MB.

4) check the disk again under WM6. I expect we will see some 14+ GB space on it.

If I am right and step 4 shows enough space, then:

a) try to access the original athena disk under windows, check the first partition -- it should be rather small

b) make a low level backup of this partition's content

c) repartition the SSD so that partition #1 is the same size (or a bit larger) than the 1st partition of the original athena disk (still under Windows!)

d) write the partition back-up to the SSD

e) install the SSD in the athena

f) enjoy 14+ GB of SSD :-)

Sadly I can't do this myself, as I have only one singleton athena that's in constant use, but I hope all of those out there who are struggling with their SSDs might find a way to check my assumptions and my suggestions.

Good luck,
Michael

[bluesbrothers93]

Ok
il will dive into the procedure next week
tell you more then

[jimmunsw]

Dear Bluesbrothers93 ,
Any good news on your result testing the ssd ? Looking back on page one , it's been coming to 2 years now since this question is raised . Come on , please someone quickly complete this project , thanks and best regards - jimmunsw :)