Do you prefer a clean version of WM6 or with extra applications? [Archive]

obaz

05-09-2007, 05:57 AM

C_shekar - I think you need some investigation which kind of soft user needs.
So let us post our vision of required soft preinstalled in ROM.
as far as I understand we taking about freeware.
My List:

1. Touch flo (if there are any possibility)
2. Dict
3. Alreader light 2\Hali reader
4. Total Commander Mobile
5. TCMP
6. Pdf - viewer
7. WM5-storage
8. Some sort of timer.
9. ICQ application (qip for example)
10. Gsplayer
11. Rar mobile

divocak

05-09-2007, 06:02 AM

1. No RAM disk
2. 24MB Pagepool
3. TouchFlo

^^rac

05-09-2007, 06:26 AM

I think the ROM should stay clean, so the user can decide what apps he wants to add.

I think one can only add the HTC home tab thingie!

Cheers

obaz

05-09-2007, 06:33 AM

divocak
no ram disk ??
man are you mad ?
for what reason you need all amount of RAM ?
Are you know that without ram-disk device SLOW DOWN ??

But I`ve agree to save some extra mem by lowering page poll. (I think 16 mb will be ok )

bearshare

05-09-2007, 07:23 AM

No, just leave the pagepool at 32 as I think it's neccessary to keep the Rom goes fast. No more software should be added I hope 'cause users can add them in later on. Just all the important fixes and patches. And that's all. Anyone want to personalize the ROM can do that by creating an extendedRom in their SD, is it, so just try to keep the version pure (one of the best exapmle is buzz 3.33). But, the ROMs that personalized before by certain developers are appreciated as well.

divocak

05-09-2007, 07:23 AM

divocak
Are you know that without ram-disk device SLOW DOWN ??

Oh i dont know that - i think that ram-disk is only for storage. thanx for info.

rwcozens

05-09-2007, 07:48 AM

I agree. The upgrade rom should be a clean one so a person can choose exactly what software they require and will use. We must also remember that we all use our PPC for different reasons so there will never be a rom with software we all want or need.

jaytheguru

05-09-2007, 08:13 AM

Hello!!! Yes I think the WM6 should be clean version, if someone wants to install apps they can do so. The reason to keep the clean version is to make the device run faster.

Although there should be a clean version but also there should be a choice of software (seprately given). If need be people can install them on their Device.

Kind Regards

Jay

Rudegar

05-09-2007, 08:15 AM

removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty

hyman

05-09-2007, 08:20 AM

some softwares are necessary...
because not all of Himalaya users are goood at play the phone,they need it quick and all-in-one.

may be we can cook 2 ROMs,one clean version of WM6 and one with extra applications

jaytheguru

05-09-2007, 08:20 AM

removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty

But not installing extra software will give choice to people what to install and what not to install. Dont you think it would be a good idea to leave it to people regardless of space or memory issues?

Kind Regards

Jay

Maggy

05-09-2007, 08:31 AM

What I personally use from 2003 and 2005 ROMs is:
phone
contacts
notes
tasks
calender
SMS
activesync
camera
windows media
bluetooth for mono headset, gps receiver, audio over car radio (behaves like mono headset and mutes for phone or navigation)
connection manager
picture viewer
sometimes Word, wouldn't miss it

Never used:
games
download agent
file explorer
gprs on/off
internet explorer
internet sharing
modem link
search
Powerpoint
WM5torage
email

Very unwelcome: certificates
I do use all settings from the tabs Personal and System, from the connections settings I only use Bluetooth

But -although a contradiction to my wish for a very clean ROM- I do believe that not only I, but most of us do like some features like smartdial, TouchFlo, PDF, VERY LOUD ringtones and repeating alerts for notifications, missed calls, missed txt messages and so on. And localisation would be very welcome too.

Theoretically it would be best if either during the flash operation or at first boot after flashing it would be possible to make your own selections using some kind of wizard/script that would be intelligent enough to warn for example that the help files will no longer be available if you remove IE, that probably SMS will no longer be available if email program is not installed (I guess).

jaytheguru

05-09-2007, 09:20 AM

utak3r

05-09-2007, 09:43 AM

But not installing extra software will give choice to people what to install and what not to install. Dont you think it would be a good idea to leave it to people regardless of space or memory issues?
Personally, I don't think so.
If one wouls want to install some software (common used, for example) he would install it in storage mem. And I could make it into rom instead.
If you don't want to use it - just don't use it :rolleyes:

One day we would make a kitchen - and then all could make their own personal rom.

Personally, I can tell you that I'm going to release a clean and speed tweaked rom - once, and then I'm going to start releasing my personalized one.

bearshare

05-09-2007, 11:37 AM

It seems like we all get the answer now. One pure version and one with all modification that builder desires. No more discussion I guess

hyman

05-09-2007, 12:10 PM

It seems like we all get the answer now. One pure version and one with all modification that builder desires. No more discussion I guess

yes..i agree with you

Maggy

05-09-2007, 12:11 PM

Ya but this is personal List of what you use, if developers starts building personal roms, it will be never ending story.
What I suggested is to build a clean rom, Hyman said the right thing. Build one with basic clean rom and the other with fully loaded and whoever wants which ever they can pick their choice.

Kind Regards

Jay

I wanted to give insight in how I use my Hima, it is by no means a wish list for a personalised ROM. (although volunteers are welcome to cook one for me ;-)
I hope others will give similar insight in their uses.

When I flashed to WM5 I thought I was using a clean ROM. It did come with Powerpoint and Exell, IMHO a waste of space. It didn't come with a working smartdial and it took me a full day to find a smartdial that works on one of my Hima's but not on another almost identical Hima. IMHO an awful waste of time unless you like to reinvent the wheel.

I've seen discussions in other threads about what they do/do not call a "clean" ROM. IMHO a clean ROM should offer as much basic functionality as possible. I believe Smartdial is one of these basic functions.
But every piece of software that you can find elsewhere, like Powerpoint and Exell should in my opinion be left out of the clean ROM, right?

A kitchen would be a good idea. A kitchen with a clear step by step manual that any noob can follow would be even nicer. Perhaps such kitchens were around before the ftp site closed, I'm only here regularly since a week or two.
I downloaded two files with the word kitchen in its name and unfortunately neither explained to me how to use it.

The_hesham

05-09-2007, 12:24 PM

removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty

You r absloutly right

PanQi

05-09-2007, 02:49 PM

removing the extra applications will not give more storage
it will not give more memory
it will just mean that the rom part of ones flash is left more empty

I can't agree with you any more

utak3r

05-09-2007, 04:22 PM

Because?...

There's a rom flash space, and there's a storage flash space - you can't just move the border between them (unfortunately).

Rudegar

05-09-2007, 04:45 PM

if extra applications is bothering people they can remove them from \windows\startmenu\programs

or from
\windows\startup

the shortcuts that is

of cause if the fact that those programs are still located in program files
even if they are bothering nobody ;)
bother people then i guess a rom which dont use all the rom space is required :)

xda2jojo

05-09-2007, 05:10 PM

simple as that...same as "clean" rom...not physically but much better as of now...now at least we have a working hima wm6 with appz than nothing...

taim99

05-09-2007, 05:15 PM

I will prefer a clean rom with original bootscreen,dial pads,themes over a bloated one any day..

xda2jojo

05-09-2007, 05:29 PM

i vote for clean rom http://filakairsoft.30.forumer.com/html/emoticons/happy.gif

phillipz

05-09-2007, 05:34 PM

I also prefer a clean rom..

jiri.cech

05-09-2007, 05:49 PM

Clean OS, only with errors fix.
- Original icon look and place, original bootscreen, original dial pads, original themes.
- Only OS, freedom for choice.

( I hate new notebook's with tons preinstalled software as demo antivir etc. !
FDISK is cool command. )

Sorry my english. :o)

Rudegar

05-09-2007, 05:59 PM

one cant compare pc's with wm devices
like that

in a pc it takes up harddisk

in a wm device it dont

only possible issue is if it's things which are set to auto start
on the wm device

then it can be called bloat

if programs are not started they dont use any power or slow anything down

this is closer to people wanting to remove options from their bios on pc they dont like :P

but if people get a clean rom to deside what they want then what they want
will take up their storage space
and that will result in a slower device which will complain about storage space being low if they sync too much to it

i dont want a clean rom
heck i bothered me that the rom i use now had messenger removed
that meant i had to install it myself and loose storage space in the process

samething with other apps
htchome, smartdial, skins, ....
if they are in the rom it's storage usage free

xda2jojo

05-09-2007, 06:06 PM

meaning:

clean rom + appz outside rom = small storage = slow device
rom + appz inside rom = clean rom minus appz= more storage = faster

i vote for clean rom because i am using my him as sms-mms/phone/reminder/music-video player only device...

jiri.cech

05-09-2007, 06:23 PM

...
if programs are not started they dont use any power or slow anything down
...

More programs = more compatibility problems, bigger registry ...
More peoples = more opinions about SW set ... :)

c_shekhar

05-09-2007, 06:30 PM

meaning:

clean rom + appz outside rom = small storage = slow device
rom + appz inside rom = clean rom minus appz= more storage = faster

...
Here above is a complete answer to all the brilliant ideas from you folks. xda2jojo has put it in a very simple form which can be understood even by any moron.

Rudegar has also said the same thing.
let me try to sum it up..

1. If we leave the ROM clean then several MB of precious space is left blank and thus wasted in the ROM. When you install your choicest progs outside the ROM it eats away the space from the storage memory which unfortunately is already too less (30MB) on hima. And as a result the device gets slower.

2. Whereas if we utilise the full free space awailable in the ROM we can pack in it as much as 5-8MB of progs (depending upon the size of OS) thereby saving the equivalent space in storage memory. And as a result the device gets faster.

I feel all of us want to have a fast device. Is it not?

For those people who prefer a cleaner look can always delete the shortcuts from \windows\start menu\programs and install the 3rd party progs of their choice. Simple......

So I personally suggest a fully loaded ROM and the shortcuts can be deleted from the \windows\start menu\programs for getting a cleaner look if any body wants it that way...

obaz

05-09-2007, 06:45 PM

Shekar
ther are little trouble.
for example in your rom (as far as I remember) was preinstaled phonepad inpud method (imitation of standard celular layout). There were now russian input here. AND CAN`T INSTAL RUSSIAN VERSION BECOUSE IT NEED UNINSTALATION OF PREVIOUS VERSION.
And again.
I`m very mised russian \ ukrainian localization (I`m not talking about translation, I need back regional seting).
As for me better return them than put in rom any 100% unused soft.

kkamel

06-09-2007, 08:33 AM

Here above is a complete answer to all the brilliant ideas from you folks. xda2jojo has put it in a very simple form which can be understood even by any moron.

Rudegar has also said the same thing.
let me try to sum it up..

1. If we leave the ROM clean then several MB of precious space is left blank and thus wasted in the ROM. When you install your choicest progs outside the ROM it eats away the space from the storage memory which unfortunately is already too less (30MB) on hima. And as a result the device gets slower.

2. Whereas if we utilise the full free space awailable in the ROM we can pack in it as much as 5-8MB of progs (depending upon the size of OS) thereby saving the equivalent space in storage memory. And as a result the device gets faster.

I feel all of us want to have a fast device. Is it not?

For those people who prefer a cleaner look can always delete the shortcuts from \windows\start menu\programs and install the 3rd party progs of their choice. Simple......

So I personally suggest a fully loaded ROM and the shortcuts can be deleted from the \windows\start menu\programs for getting a cleaner look if any body wants it that way...

Then I think it's better for the intermediate and experienced guy to cook their own ROM instead of having non-clean one with applications that we don't like, also note that those applications will slow down the device to some extent as they will add registry setting which in turn will slow the whole registry DB.

bearshare

06-09-2007, 08:41 AM

i vote for clean rom http://filakairsoft.30.forumer.com/html/emoticons/happy.gif

Hello Mister, I'm a fan of your WM2003SExda2jojo. It's really a great ROM and I ask myself why you don't take your part in the development of this WM6 ROM. Waiting for your reply

dielo

06-09-2007, 08:46 AM

if you want the original bootscreen,just copy this file (http://www.savefile.com/files/1033539) and put it in Windows folder and replace the original file...

xda2jojo

06-09-2007, 08:58 AM

ok frankly i flashed my other him from helmi_c and c_shekhar rom...
with c_shekhar rom...i did not encounter any problem with 3rd party appz...him runs faster than my him with virgy rom(without 3rd party appz)...the 3rd party appz are 100% useful...

Hello Mister, I'm a fan of your WM2003SExda2jojo. It's really a great ROM and I ask myself why you don't take your part in the development of this WM6 ROM. Waiting for your replythanks...thanks also to my bro Toenailed!
sorry but i am semi retiring now...
Let the new generation run the search of new fully functional wm OS...
Nevertheless i am still using my "crappy" hima...my wife using it too...

Regards!

~~~<jojo>

Maggy

06-09-2007, 09:22 AM

if you want the original bootscreen,just copy this file (http://www.savefile.com/files/1033539) and put it in Windows folder and replace the original file...

Thanks Dielo. I'm glad it's that easy. Now who's going to create a nice bootscreen that commemorates TofClock?

Maggy

06-09-2007, 09:59 AM

To be honest I'm starting to get more and more confused by how the Hima handles its memory. When I browse through it using Resco Explorer with "nothing" hidden, I can see a linear tree with Ramdisk, ExtROM and Storage Card somewhere in the middle and Registry at the bottom. As far as I know I do not see things like bootloader, the ROM image it loads at hard reset, the radio ROM and probably some other bits and pieces?

I do not see a straight line between storage and program memory in that tree.

But I do see a Windows folder full of files right after successful flashing. And I see that the longer the list of files in that folder gets, the harder Resco explorer has to work to browse through them. So my guess is that the OS and installed applications would have it just as hard to find their gif's, dlls's, mui's and all the other stuff in that folder when it's loaded with "junk". (junk that of course other people call useful applications)

The analogy most certainly works when you plug in a storage card full of pictures, picture browsing/editing software gets slower.

While localising my WM5 to Dutch I noticed that I was able to replace *.dll.0409.mui files by *.dll.413.mui files. I believe that means that all the files and folders you can see directly after flashing (except for storage card and possibly unhidden ExtRom) are in RAM. Unless the OS actually hides the "deleted" mui's, in which case they might still reside in ROM.

So if my noob assumptions are right, it's not just a matter of filling otherwise wasted space in ROM and simply removing shortcuts if you don't want a certain program. I get the impression that leaving applications out of the ROM should free up memory, should make a lighter tree structure and should, as kkamel stated, also give us a cleaner registry.

utak3r

06-09-2007, 10:17 AM

Want to see the border between rom and storage?

Go and overwrite one of system files (some dll for example) using for example total commander. Reset. Now go and rename it. What's left? your renamed one and an original one... you can see it by their sizes.

So, people, just think for a moment and realize it finally: installing anything for yourself willo waste your really precious storage space (only 30MB!!). Cooking them into rom will leave this storage untouched! More space for your own apps!

And by a clean rom I mean: original dialer, original contact manger and so on... - because you can't use two of them. Let the people choose. But installing some additional app, for example word - sure it's going into rom! If you don't like it, go and delete its shortcut from \Windows\Programs. And that's it.

geez...

I'll repeat only once - I don't know what are chandra's plans, but I'm going to release ONE clean rom, and then I will be working on a personalized rom. If you will like it, you'll take it, of not - then not, cook yourself one with this clean one.

obaz

06-09-2007, 10:37 AM

I posted a problem whith phonepad input.
I thinking it is serious bug.

about tofclock boot screen.
I can do it, but I need his fotos.

xda2jojo

06-09-2007, 12:01 PM

about tofclock boot screen.
I can do it, but I need his fotos.http://www.pdamobiz.com/forum/uploads/image7/7FED6_TofClock.jpg

utak3r

06-09-2007, 01:11 PM

Shekar
ther are little trouble.
for example in your rom (as far as I remember) was preinstaled phonepad inpud method

I`m very mised russian \ ukrainian localization (I`m not talking about translation, I need back regional seting).
As for me better return them than put in rom any 100% unused soft.

As I said previously...
please... read it...

I WILL RELEASE A NOT-MODIFIED ROM.
It WILL have some additional apps, but non of them will modify those ORIGINAL ones.

And... I WILL be fighting with localizations ;) I need them, too.

Now...

If anyone will say anything about a clean ROM... I'll shoot him :p

xda2jojo

06-09-2007, 01:31 PM

Now...

If anyone will say anything about a clean ROM... I'll shoot him :p
^^^
to all...take this word...

ps:
just vote and don't make a side comment...
i am now going to unsticky this thread...

jiggs

06-09-2007, 01:57 PM

Release a CLEAN ROM KITCHEN, too! Because some users want to personalized their ROM.

utak3r

06-09-2007, 02:04 PM

Release a CLEAN ROM KITCHEN, too! Because some users want to personalized their ROM.

Of course. But first, it needs to be created :rolleyes:
As for now, one can use normal todays rom editing tools (xda2nbftool, imgfs by mamaich tools, rgucomp and so on).

obaz

06-09-2007, 03:06 PM

utkar forgive my flood - still angry of what C_shekars has done.
about localitation - there were wm6 localized emulator images on MS site - I thik they could help.
anyway let`s fight gprs. I think it`s true thet os can`t establish ppp conection - I can`t conect via bluetooth modem too.
Seem`s like almost all device whithout native wm6 have gprs troubles.

xda2jojo
need more fotos.
will work whith this one, hope show some result tonight.

utak3r

06-09-2007, 03:15 PM

utkar
utak3r

about localitation - there were wm6 localized emulator images on MS site - I thik they could help.

First, we need to get localization settings back (not the lang itself). Then we'll make true localizations (translation taken from emulator).

Seem`s like almost all device whithout native wm6 have gprs troubles.

But it's not a GPRS problem :p
BA can take PPP sessions without problems :)

need more fotos.
This particular photo is well known, so probably it will be the best one.

d0pefish

06-09-2007, 04:29 PM

Hi there :)

I'm more of a lurker but I read many of the posts on this board and am also the proud owner of a Himalaya (O2 Xda II).

The news of WM6 being brought to the Hima is, in itself incredible. I enjoyed playing with various kitchens and customising my own WM5 ROMs, so I would much rather have a clean, bare WM6 kitchen that I can customise for myself.

I think developers should work together to make a good WM6 kitchen, maybe try a bit of programming/scripting to automate certain things for those who aren't as experienced, and create plenty of popular packages that people can simply drop in to add them to their ROM.

I don't like to be forced to use someone else's preference of applications, and I also hate custom icons/logos/skins that I don't want, but I also don't like wasting ROM space - so let's focus on a way to allow people to make their own use of it. While the people on this board who release custom ROMs do very good work and it's much appreciated, it's my strong opinion that the developers should try and iron out the bugs together before stacking the customisations on top of an initially buggy ROM - potentially adding bugs in the process.

So to summaraize:

1. Fix the bugs with the base ROM
2. Create a solid set of kitchen utensils and package it up so everyone can easily obtain it
3. Create lots of custom OEM packages that people can easily add to their ROMs
4. Create ready-customised roms just like c_shekar's as a *side* option for those that don't want to play in the kitchen :)

This is just my opinion - nobody has to agree with it, but I reckon it'd generally make people happier. :)

utak3r

06-09-2007, 06:56 PM

I read many of the posts on this board

Really?...
So... have you read my post?

d0pefish

06-09-2007, 09:11 PM

Of course I have, I know the tools already exist - no need to bite my head off :)

I'm just suggesting what the priorities might be. If we put together a kitchen for people, we'll get less stupid questions asked. :)

utak3r

06-09-2007, 09:16 PM

If we put together a kitchen for people, we'll get less stupid questions asked. :)

Naive... :p

I said it already - there will be a kitchen, but as for now it doesn't exist. Well, even a rom itself isn't finished... :rolleyes:

bearshare

07-09-2007, 05:26 AM

ok frankly i flashed my other him from helmi_c and c_shekhar rom...
with c_shekhar rom...i did not encounter any problem with 3rd party appz...him runs faster than my him with virgy rom(without 3rd party appz)...the 3rd party appz are 100% useful...

thanks...thanks also to my bro Toenailed!
sorry but i am semi retiring now...
Let the new generation run the search of new fully functional wm OS...
Nevertheless i am still using my "crappy" hima...my wife using it too...

Regards!

~~~<jojo>

Woh, it's bad to hear that but anyway it's your choice. But I still hope that you could do something more than being the moderator of this forum.