demagnetizing concerns

[djsell@earthlink.net]

hi all,

i am quite seriously considering the 7501 here in the usa, as an upgrade from the hermes, vs the kaiser, or eventual omni.

one large concern is the poss. of the magnet demagnetizing my credit cards.

as i almost had my honeymoon ruined 12 yrs ago in italy when i bought a magnet money clip and put it in the same pocket/area as my wallet, later after my atm card would not work i realized the blunder and have not used it since.

i searched the forums and came up empty.

the question is has any of you advantage users actually had their cards or other magnetic based(hd's) devices demagnetized, and if so can you tell me how exactly it happened in terms of proximity to the cards, length of time in proximity, OR if you have not had any problems and have had the advantage next to your cards/wallet, etc.

i like to use a leather fanny pack when walking/hiking for long distances and keep my wallet, cell phone, dig camera in it together but in diff compartments sep by fabric only.

i would hate to have to think of always keeping my wallet and main device exactly 6.25346???? inches apart to prevent disaster.

secondly maybe you engineers could tell me how to protect the cards in the wallet with a shield of lead( small enough to put in a wallet, of course or other material), or something that would block the magnetization effects.

thanks in advance!!

djsell

[irus]

has not happen to me.... YET :)

[Pantaloonie]

There are a couple of posts in the Athena forum from members saying that their laptop hard drives have been damaged. Not seen any mention of credit cards though.
I am careful not to get the keyboard of the Athena anywhere near my laptop or wallet, I don't want to be the first to test it...

[jsp91470]

It isn't possible for any type of commercially-available magnet to wipe a credit card. They tested cards with huge electromagnets and the cards were just fine. It would take at least 1000 gauss to erase a credit card. Most likely the "demagnetized" cards people keep swearing they have are damaged by other means, like scratches on the magnetic stripe. And it wouldn't necessarily have to entirely destroy the data on the stripe; just one well-placed scratch would be enough to destroy just enough data that the reader wouldn't be able to make sense of what it's seeing.

[apd]

It isn't possible for any type of commercially-available magnet to wipe a credit card. They tested cards with huge electromagnets and the cards were just fine. It would take at least 1000 gauss to erase a credit card. Most likely the "demagnetized" cards people keep swearing they have are damaged by other means, like scratches on the magnetic stripe. And it wouldn't necessarily have to entirely destroy the data on the stripe; just one well-placed scratch would be enough to destroy just enough data that the reader wouldn't be able to make sense of what it's seeing.

That said, I believe T-Mobile recommend you keep the Ameo 5cm away from credit cards.

[Midget_1990]

my athena has killed 2 hard drives (both laptop) so it does that, not sure about credit cards...

[djsell@earthlink.net]

i just googled "credit cards and magnets" and found serious problems people have said they've encountered with the magnet in the sidekick-3 and losing all data on credit cards, dr. license , and someone tested a card with a 1 second exposure and the card was unrecognizable!!

also the "basics" of credit card magnetic stripes, and they are actual tiny magnets!

not looking good, ...and as this thread plays out some harddrives lost...makes me wonder how the advantages own hd is not affected.

i'll have to read up on "mythbusters", and the myth of these lost hd's and card data...i would love to believe it is a myth!!

the question for me is can i keep the advantage away from my cards and hd's 100% of the time!!!...knowing me, not a chance!!

djsell

[apd]

The answer is you just need to be a bit careful - don't put the unit or the keyboard on your laptop or wallet. Also, if you are wearing a jacket with your unit in one breast pocket and your wallet in the other and put the jacket down on a flat surface, take one or other out before you do!!!!!

[xzon]

the answer is yes to credit cards in my x7500 manual it says to keep it away from credit cards and mag stripes as it can possibly harm them.

its just a warning not a guarantee just thought id throw this in there

[silviu.h]

Hi,

I can only speak of my own experience: on two separate occasions my Athena rendered my daily parking ticket (which is made of paper with a thin magnetic stripe) completely unreadable by the automatic cashier mashine.

Once the ticket was put in my bag right on top of the Athena(bad idea...). The other time I had the ticket in my shirt pocket and the Athena in my inside coat pocket, so the two of them were only separated by a few layers of fabric...

Since these two incidents I try to keep my Athena separated from anything electronic and/or magnetic. And if someone came up with a way to remove the magnet I'd be happy to test (I don't use the keyboard anymore).

Regards,

Silviu

[juiceppc]

The whole magnet keyboard thing is a bad design IMHO. Carrying around magnets with you 24/7 can't be a good thing. I do know people use magnets for therapy. :P

But for everything else it can just cause a problem. They should have just done away with the keyboard all together or done it the smart way like the Universal. Swivel style.

Sure the Omni might have this design but is the Omni going to have a 5" screen. I bet not.

[toyfreak]

I remember seeing something about removing the magnet(s) here on XDA-devs. If HTC puts them in, I'm sure some intrepid XDAer has/will take them out...

[Digital.Diablo]

I've not managed to kill any of my cards (as yet), but now the UK's moved over to Chip and Pin, the stripe barely gets used. No problems with the storecards in their either mind. I quite often carry my wallet atop the closed Ameo. I have managed to knacker one lappy hdd though with my Ameo.

One thing I have noticed is the magnet seems to be quite focused - its grab doesnt seem to emit too far from the bottom of the device. However, the keyboard seems to have far greater radiance than the gadget (from holding them both upto a CRT).

[djsell@earthlink.net]

thanks for all the feedback....still undecided on the advantage, i agree that if htc simply used the universals swivel design this would have alleviated a lot of poss problems....no magnet problems, adjustable viewing angles in laptop mode, no losing the kb or keeping track of it, etc., ....well i'll wait a few wks for the poss omni...kaiser still will be with an unprotected screen.

i loved the universal but for me it was quite slow, and the camera was essentially unuseable for my purposes, and important to have in the device.

ces la vie!!

djsell

[apd]

thanks for all the feedback....still undecided on the advantage, i agree that if htc simply used the universals swivel design this would have alleviated a lot of poss problems....no magnet problems, adjustable viewing angles in laptop mode, no losing the kb or keeping track of it, etc., ....well i'll wait a few wks for the poss omni...kaiser still will be with an unprotected screen.

i loved the universal but for me it was quite slow, and the camera was essentially unuseable for my purposes, and important to have in the device.

ces la vie!!

djsell

Whoah there!!! Every PDA I've ever had had its drawbacks - each of which you had to find a workaround for. It is true that the magnets require a bit of careful thought but they are the issue you come up with a workaround for. There are other minor issues but generally the Ameo is fantastic - and I defy you to go back to a smaller screen once you've tried it!!!! ;)

[Doodle]

I have been able to kill two hotel keycards with my X7500. Another one to be wary about, since you will need to walk back aaaaalllllll the way down to reception...

[Volcanodancer]

Hi,

I can only speak of my own experience: on two separate occasions my Athena rendered my daily parking ticket (which is made of paper with a thin magnetic stripe) completely unreadable by the automatic cashier mashine.

Regards,

Silviu

Me to... thankfully it had my entry time printed on the ticket and so I wasn't charged a full day (it was airport parking too - very pricey).

Most of my credit/debit cards are probably already wiped by my Ameo, not sure, but I've not had a card swip done in ages since chip and pin so I suppose I'll only find out when I go to the one place that still relies on mag-stripe technology.

[djsell@earthlink.net]

i agree apd,

my real objective...so i tell myself....is to find that near perfect all in one device to use for the longest poss period of time w/o having to continually switch to another phone and reload all my software and endure the new horrors of active sync, i am a physician that basically has the patience, with tech devices, that is, of a newborn baby looking for a nipple!!...I HAVE NOT MUCH, and i want everything to work fairly well and w/o side effects and time consumption.

i loved my universal ( you're right the vga screen!! ) and stuck with it for about a year, which as you know in gadget years, thats about 80 years!, but i really need a camera for my work, and its is insuff, so i had to carry a 2nd device, a dig camera which defeats the purpose.......anyway i just want to avoid the SERIOUS side effects which could be credit card dysfunction, harddrive loss, etc and certainly could live with the viewing angle, and size , since its evidently not that much larger than the universal.

we'll see...the omni proposes a 4" vga screen, 3mp camera,swivel design (minus magnets), and all the other stuff, minus the 8 gb hd, but with micro sd now coming out with 8 gd memory, thats ok.

maybe in its case i could slip in a material that would block the magnetization??!!

btw, here in the usa everything on cards seems to be magnetized still!!

djsell

[johnwalk]

I have been able to kill two hotel keycards with my X7500. Another one to be wary about, since you will need to walk back aaaaalllllll the way down to reception...

me two and the first time i only had my pants and socks on went next door to borrow somthing of my work colleage, at least the receptionist found it amusing

[bLiTz^]

Well I was watching Discovery Channel about a yr back. N I remember watching Myth Busters. They did a test about demagnetizing a credit card and the results were if u wanna demagnetize ur credit card...... the amount of energy required would actually destroy the card into pieces first..... I Doubt Athena has the power to do that... =D.....


Cheers

[patrickl]

Just wanted to add my experiences to the thread. They are similar to others I guess.

I wanted to use the Athena without the keyboard and put the keyboard in my pocket together with a hotel key. The hotel key didn't not work anymore after that.

Another time I put my Athena on my wallet. The credit cards were all still fine, but my parking ticket didn't work anymore.

So my credit cards seem to be able to withstand the magnet, but electronic hotel keys and parking tickets with magnetic strips sure don't

[lerouxh]

The magnet must be quite powerful. My Motorola mobile phone's display goes blank each time a bring it close to my X7500! :eek:

[silviu.h]

How to (easily) remove the magnets for those who don't use the keyboard: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1915999&postcount=17

[Janis]

If you are going to use the keyboard, I'd recommend using the case, or another one that has the metal plate in it to hold the keyboard. The cases don't have magnets in them, just a steel plate. Generally speaking the metal plate and the thicknesses (distance) of the case & of the exterior of a regular wallet/billfold for your credit cards is enough to absorb the magnetism in the keyboard.

except for these precuations, I've been marginally abusive and haven't, after about a 2 weeks, had any problems with any of my cards.

You could also put a small metal plate (or any spacer) in your wallet to be extra safe.

[StashCompInc]

Back in the day when I had a Athena, It made my bus card unreadable. Mainly because they were in the same pocket. So just keep cards and harddrives away from the Athena.

[djsell@earthlink.net]

hi,

did you mean a bus or abbrev. for business card, and was it a magnetized card ??

any other thoughts on this potential problem with demag credit cards and ruining harddrives ??

djsell

[marek101]

Here is a short answer in a nutshell:

Most credit cards are written with you might call an industrial strength. So the strip on the back of the credit cards isn't easy to erase with any ordinary magnet. Having said that there are exceptions and that is take a credit card and swipe it against a magnet few hundred times and the credit card is toast due to the card passing the field at a fast rate. That is due to the electromagnetic field is poking little like holes on the information strip. Now hotel keys on the other hand are written by a weak magnet, and its for the purpose of reusing that key, so the wear and tear on the key is pretty significant.
Things that might do wrong with the Athena:
1) The built in micro drive. After all I don't think it has a shield.
2) Your health. Nobody has really explored this yet, but there have been numerous health studies in various industries which use powerful magnets. Mind you those magnets were much more powerful and so on, but still....
3) Since you are forced to use a bluetooth device that emits less the 0.05emf your brain wont be scrambled us much as if you used let's say kaiser, or on of those. Recent study shows cell phones to be really bad for your health.
Bottom line, don't worry about your credit cards, bank cards etc. As long as there is even some kind of leather insulation between the athena and the cards the impact will be insignificant.

However I do wonder about the magnet's impact on the body... Especially that we now know that magnetic fields can affect our mood, and body rhythm.

Interesting stuff...

[eaglesteve]

Magnet is supposed to be good for the body, if you believe the advertisement for magnetised pillow, magnetised bedsheets, etc. ;)

[weaselcossey]

Here is a short answer in a nutshell:

Most credit cards are written with you might call an industrial strength. So the strip on the back of the credit cards isn't easy to erase with any ordinary magnet. Having said that there are exceptions and that is take a credit card and swipe it against a magnet few hundred times and the credit card is toast due to the card passing the field at a fast rate. That is due to the electromagnetic field is poking little like holes on the information strip. Now hotel keys on the other hand are written by a weak magnet, and its for the purpose of reusing that key, so the wear and tear on the key is pretty significant.
Things that might do wrong with the Athena:
1) The built in micro drive. After all I don't think it has a shield.
2) Your health. Nobody has really explored this yet, but there have been numerous health studies in various industries which use powerful magnets. Mind you those magnets were much more powerful and so on, but still....
3) Since you are forced to use a bluetooth device that emits less the 0.05emf your brain wont be scrambled us much as if you used let's say kaiser, or on of those. Recent study shows cell phones to be really bad for your health.
Bottom line, don't worry about your credit cards, bank cards etc. As long as there is even some kind of leather insulation between the athena and the cards the impact will be insignificant.

However I do wonder about the magnet's impact on the body... Especially that we now know that magnetic fields can affect our mood, and body rhythm.

Interesting stuff...

That's some deep sh*t man. j\k

I have heard reports concerning magnets and your health, negative things. This is mostly, as you said, very powerful magnets in steel mills and the like. Also have heard some of the things about cellphones. I'm sure most of the public is not concearned with this, but asbestos wasn't considered dangerous until after the damage was done.

[djsell@earthlink.net]

ok, well thanks for the physics of the problem or potential problem...makes sense that the credit cards are more stable .

i think i will find a thin piece of lead or metal to slip over or put my cards in between, in my wallet to be on the safe side when i get my 7501 later this wk.

magnets at high power, ie mri's actually move the atoms of the bodies molecules to show the tissues different water density to differentiate the tissue, not harmful when in a controlled environment. there are many other medical applications that are proven, that are beneficial to healing and well being for humans as well, so that is not my concern at this time. i just dont want my credit card tissues traumatized!!!

[patrickl]

i think i will find a thin piece of lead or metal to slip over or put my cards in betweenI doubt carrying around a piece of lead is a good idea ;)

BTW why not simply separate the Athena and your wallet? They don't fit together in one pocket anway.

[djsell@earthlink.net]

patrick,

i didn't mean a large piece, prob something thin, like a credit card that would not add any real weight to my wallet.......

i did get my advantage a few days ago and the problem is the worrying about the poss of carrying them together without thinking....you know that little extra worry nobody wants to have,...... i'll just see how it goes......

ciao

[weaselcossey]

patrick,

i didn't mean a large piece, prob something thin, like a credit card that would not add any real weight to my wallet.......

i did get my advantage a few days ago and the problem is the worrying about the poss of carrying them together without thinking....you know that little extra worry nobody wants to have,...... i'll just see how it goes......

ciao

The only time my athena comes close to my wallet, is when my wallet is already lying on the dresser, and I take the athena (in its leather case) off my belt and right on top of my wallet. It just happens, nearly everyday, i'm just so used to dumping everything out of my pockets in that spot. Hasn't caused me any problems. I have 3 credit cards in the wallet.

Is your main concern being out, with no cash, and suddenly your credit card just won't work? Anywhere that accepts credit cards can (and should if you ask) enter your card number, card type, and expiration date manually. If a someone tells you different, they are either a liar, or an incomptent worker. If I call any of my credit card companies, I can get a new card without charge in 3 days or less. Considering all of this, I wouldn't be concerned with the magnets. I never think twice about the matter.

Look at the bright side, if you lose your card, there's always the chance that the athena deactivated it for you.:D

[cuteangelika]

im also thinking of getting an athena (still thinking if I'd stick with 7500 or spend a little more for 7510 but that's another issue). Anyway, good for you guys who use billfold wallets and use your backpockets. Us girls have can't do that.. we have to have a purse. I have a dopod 900 now and Im using a piel frama notebook style case. This serves as my wallet as well so I have a credit card, my atm, business cards, a gloria jeans frequent sipper card, some dollar bills, post it notes (my stylus is a pen too). Anyway, you get what I mean -- it's my everything. Now when I get the athena, i wonder if I can still do that. Im thinking of sewing an attachment on the leather case that can be velcroed on and off (not sure if can do that though). Since you're all saying credit card magnet strips are tougher so it should be able to withstand the athena magnets.

what do you think?

[cktlcmd]

i think i will find a thin piece of lead or metal to slip over or put my cards in between, in my wallet to be on the safe side when i get my 7501 later this wk.

Just think of the Advantage as "Superman" protecting itself from kryptonyte with a lead suit. Just like the lead aprons X-ray tech's have. :D

...

[cmonex]

hi all,

the question is has any of you advantage users actually had their cards or other magnetic based(hd's) devices demagnetized, and if so can you tell me how exactly it happened in terms of proximity to the cards, length of time in proximity, OR if you have not had any problems and have had the advantage next to your cards/wallet, etc.



yes, a ticket became useless, thankfully it caused no problems for me

not confirmed if it was indeed due to athena but it was sitting beside it in my bag for hours

since then I pay attention and no problems

they are still in the same bag but there are layers between them.

I sometimes put the athena beside the laptop, but not on top of it, no problems

never risked placing it on my CC of course (BTW it is in same bag as the athena, for long long days, but layers between them)

[cmonex]

update... just realized I had CC in pocket of bag and athena was only two layers away (1: pocket, 2: athena case), for days. card still works fine