HTC TyTN II: Unrecoverable Power Failure

[Massimiliano_C]

Hi, I have recently acquired (mid Sept. 2007) a TyTN II device: really a very good and nice device ... till yesterday.

Maybe my experience could be shared with some of you...

Yesterday my device suddenly turned off apparently because battery very low (i.e. less than 5% according to the manual): this is strange because as far as I remember my battery was charged enough to survive more than one day considering that I did not use Wifi/Bluetooth or many phone calls.

By the way, the problem occurred when I attempted to recharge the device: it spent hours under recharge but the power led never become green, but remained orange. I attempted anyway to startup the device, but as soon as the Windows OS started it automatically shutdown because battery too low was detected.

I performed several software reset and finally an hardware reset, while attempting also to recharge it also via USB but without any positive effect.

I contacted HTC which suggested me ... to provide back the device most likely for being replaced according to the DOA (Dead On Arrival) policy.

Please note that according to some tests I performed on the battery, this seems to be charged and the problem relying on the device or OS which do not recognize it as charged but so low that no operations are permitted.

Has some one experienced a similar issue with this new HTC device ?

Cheers,

Max

[Slade8525]

GF's 8125 did almost the same thing; wouldnt charge past 10% and kept sending notification after notification; this was literally right out of the box. Cingular/AT&T suspected the battery but replaced the 8125 as well.

[mikechannon]

So far I have not seen other reports of this for TyTn II. It is however a reasonably common problem with many different brands of phone.

Mike

[austinsnyc]

Could be a Power managment issue its not uncommen at all. things go wrong in all electronic devices think of the millions of Kaisers that will be sold in the coming months a few are bound to messed up from the factory. Its like buying a car you know shits guna happen but you buy it anyway since it looks really nice that first day!

[JwY]

Did you all charge using the supplied wallcharger instead of via USB?

[niccyk]

Did you all charge using the supplied wallcharger instead of via USB?

Make your kaiser power off, and use wallcharger. If it still doesn't work, call for HTC..

[deechte]

Some problems are solved by letting the internal battery drain, by leaving the device without the battery for a couple of days.

[gogol]

That issue can happen if you (almost) run out of battery.

Best practice: NEVER EVER run down your battery below 5% ! As soon as it reach 10%, switch off if you dont have charger at that time.

You might go below 10%, but take the risk .... !

It is known to us that the new Windows Mobile 5.0 supports persistant memory (your data will not lost when the battery runs out 0%), but it does not say that you will not be able to charge the battery! :)

More explanation? And how to revive the battery?

Read this thread:

http://www.modaco.com/Warning-Battery-Chargin-t233233.html

It is well explained, how that happen and how to recover the battery :)

[jcespi2005]

That issue can happen if you (almost) run out of battery.

Best practice: NEVER EVER run down your battery below 5% ! As soon as it reach 10%, switch off if you dont have charger at that time.

You might go below 10%, but take the risk .... !

It is known to us that the new Windows Mobile 5.0 supports persistant memory (your data will not lost when the battery runs out 0%), but it does not say that you will not be able to charge the battery! :)



ey man, i followed the recommended procedure for the three firsts battery charges. First i plug the PDA and let charge at 100%, then i let the battery goes to 0% (yes, the PDA goes off, of course) and then plugin onto the wall charger, and let charge to the 100%, repeating this procedure three times.

I do this also with my previous PDA, Hermes. And no problem leting the PDA going to 0%...never see this problem before.

What is the supossed problem leting the battery goes to 0%?

Regards.

EDIT: Found this interesting information about LiIon... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery and http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

[gogol]

jcespi2005,

I simply dont know :) I just shared the link that I knew from modaco which is useful in this case.

Maybe this is not 100% the case, but as I said "best practice" ... something that it is better to follow to avoid this issue as you should read already that quite a lot of people affected by this very low depleted battery.

[jcespi2005]

jcespi2005,

I simply dont know :) I just shared the link that I knew from modaco which is useful in this case.

Maybe this is not 100% the case, but as I said "best practice" ... something that it is better to follow to avoid this issue as you should read already that quite a lot of people affected by this very low depleted battery.

The modaco thread talks about Wizard, i think it's not 100% the same as Kaiser, cause is not the same battery, and the hard charge interface on the PDA can be different. I'm going to make a deep research about model and manufacturer for the Kaiser Battery, to see what can be the issue.

Anyway, i let my Kaiser goes 0% three times and charge fine for the three times. So i beleave the issue is not related with the battery itself. Can be the charger? don't know...

What is the model and manufacturer for your Kaiser battery, please?

Mine is Samsung model KAIS160.

[gogol]

Just checked and I have the same battery, SAMSUNG KAIS160.

[mikechannon]

I have now seen another report on another forum with this problem (Kaiser). I suggested the standard method as used when the refusing to charge issue arose with the Hermes (TyTn).
(It worked by the way!)

i.e.

1
Remove the battery for half an hour or so
2
With the battery still removed connect and switch ON the official (1000mA) MAINS charger (Not other brands that deliver only 500mA)
3
Now insert the battery
4
Wait for up to 5 mins for the Red LED to change to Orange

Repeat steps 3 and 4 if you have no success after waiting for a reasonable time.

(If that fails then elsewhere I have reported the technique of delivering a charge to the battery using a couple of AA batteries)


My view for what it's worth:

Although in rare cases there may be a faulty battery, in the main the problem is not caused by the battery. The likely explanation is that the circuit that detects the battery's presence, fails to detect the battery when the battery charge is very low. In other words there is no problem with battery but the battery charge detection circuit is either frozen or does not switch on when the battery charge is too low.

This issue I see reported across many brands of phone and is not a WM specific problem.

Mike

[jcespi2005]

My view for what it's worth:

Although in rare cases there may be a faulty battery, in the main the problem is not caused by the battery. The likely explanation is that the circuit that detects the battery's presence, fails to detect the battery when the battery charge is very low. In other words there is no problem with battery but the battery charge detection circuit is either frozen or does not switch on when the battery charge is too low.

This issue I see reported across many brands of phone and is not a WM specific problem.

Mike

Many thanks for the information, this confirms my suspects about the interface to the battery, and not the battery itself... i see this issue time ago with one Nokia 6100, and solve it with the same procedure you write. Sometimes LiIon battery gain some charge if you place in the refrigerator for a while (cool helps LiIon batterys, and warm hurts).

Regards.

EDIT: More info about charging LiIon battery here http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
Seems there is no need to make three charge/discharge cycle before use the LiIon battery. Simply you can use and charge in any moment. Really is better sorts and many charges rather than less and longs charges/discharges.

[irsw]

Hi guys,

Well the USB did the trick.

Don't forget the Red Wire is the + (Positive)
and
the black Wire is the - (Negative).

A few minutes holding in place did the trick.

Thanks a lot for this thread, I actually had the feeling that I have lost the Kaiser.

Ronen

[theromanone]

Hi guys,

Well the USB did the trick.

Don't forget the Red Wire is the + (Positive)
and
the black Wire is the - (Negative).

A few minutes holding in place did the trick.

Thanks a lot for this thread, I actually had the feeling that I have lost the Kaiser.

Ronen


what USB trick? what wires, and where do you put them in the phone? thanks!

[theromanone]

nevermind, just tried it and it definitely charged the phone, but when i then plugged it into the charger it the battery just decreased like before

[irsw]

what USB trick? what wires, and where do you put them in the phone? thanks!

Hello,

Take a USB cable (the one like you use to sync your pda) cut it in the middle, expose the wires inside.

The red wire (+) is to be attached to the PLUS of the battery, and the balck wire (-) is to be attached to the minus of the battery.

About one minute and fater re-install the battery and try charging again, this should do the trick.

You can also use 2 AA batteries in the same manner.

Yours,
Ronen

[trbal10]

just happened to mine after only a month. Contacted att and the forum and had to get it replaced. So far nothing wrong with this one!

[irsw]

Many thanks for the information, this confirms my suspects about the interface to the battery, and not the battery itself... i see this issue time ago with one Nokia 6100, and solve it with the same procedure you write. Sometimes LiIon battery gain some charge if you place in the refrigerator for a while (cool helps LiIon batterys, and warm hurts).

Regards.

EDIT: More info about charging LiIon battery here http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-12.htm
Seems there is no need to make three charge/discharge cycle before use the LiIon battery. Simply you can use and charge in any moment. Really is better sorts and many charges rather than less and longs charges/discharges.

Hi Mike,

Had my Kaiser sent to a lab, they are checking it but they are saying it is a faulty board.

The battery is ok although I bought a new one and tested it to find still the same problem.

Thanks.

[kilrah]

What is the supossed problem leting the battery goes to 0%?


A lithium ion battery can be damaged if its voltage is allowed to drop too low. To prevent hazards, if the battery voltage goes too low, the charging circuit will not accept to charge it anymore.

Going down to 0% is not a problem is if you charge it straight away. But if you leave the battery empty for a long time, self-discharge will eat the little bit of marging between where the phone senses the battery is empty and turns off, and the point where the charging circuitry will refuse to charge the battery.

There was an issue with the Wizard where if your battery was to become empty during a call (where current drain is high and very varying), the phone would let the battery discharge too much before shutting off, which left the battery unchargeable. It happened to me a couple of times, and all my friends who had one also experienced it at least once. The solution was to recharge the battery a few minutes using an external charger (I have R/C aircraft models, in which we use various types of batteries including lithuium ones, and we have chargers that support them all) until the voltage is high enough for the phones charging circuitry to allow charge again. My friends always were thankful not to have to buy new batteries each time...

EDIT: Meh, didn't see the topic had multiple pages and that post was so old... nevermind, still valid, might help someone one day ;)