Sport GPS software on developement

[Yannn]

My fourth message of the day ... I'm inspired !!! :p :p

I'm one of a little runners and cyclers group whose want evolve in my sport and use new technology to practice sports.

3 of our have baught and HTC trinity to have an all in one solution : GSM, music player and GPS.
We have test a lot of offroad program, gps tuner,beegps,nimo,noni,... and we are not satisfacted about them... We have ideas which the best program must have but we are so poor programers to do it.
So I would like to know if some of best programers of this forum could make it for us ?
Are you interested ?

We could send you all of ours ideas, with explained pictures ...

PS sorry if it's not the good place to post this ...
thank

[sthawk]

I have a Dopod D810 and I am developing a GPS application for it, mainly because nothing I tried out there did everything I wanted, and was suitable for use on a bike.
My app is a
- Raster-based GPS application
- Music Player
- Phone 'answerer'
- Text message display
- Big buttons (so you can press them while riding)
- Good reliability
I initially developed it for my Dell Axim X51v.
It supports importing/exporting routes and tracks to and from GPX and KML files, and can do playback of tracks. (ie it works with Google Maps/Earth routes and tracks)
It supports importing locations from names files.
It supports maps in TFW, SDW, JPG and BSB formats.
Any music files supported by windows media player are supported.

If you have any maps in one of the above format, this is for you!

[Yannn]

wahou !
it's look like what i'm looking for ... without pearhaps a graph which expose speed and altitude during the trip... but i'm so interested ! what is the programation language use ? could you send me sources ?if you want, I can send you some draws to complet with option your soft ?

[sthawk]

Its done in C++; sorry, I'm not going to release the source, but I'm happy to get any ideas you have.

oh, I forgot, there's a PC version off the same code base which makes it easier to see playback, build routes, etc. I'll add some speed/altitude/time graphs to it over the weekend some time if I get a chance.

I'll also eventually put the installers on my web site.

[Yannn]

ok... it's not a problem that you don't release source... just ... could you send me just how you get speed, altitude and position ... you dialogue with the P3600 GPS... is there library or only code lines ?

My idea...
-make a rotation of your cards in function your deplacement like tomtom.
-on my soft, i would like record precedent trip to do versus when I take the same road. This versus could compare KM all long the time and bip me when i'm late.
-the graph which compare my speed and variation of altitude all long my trip
-instant speed/speed trip/time/km

[sthawk]

Initially, I used the GPS API in the microsoft SDK, but its not reliable enough (sometimes it stops signalling updates on its event), so I wrote my own from scratch and the NMEA documentation.

- Sorry, I'm not familiar with tomtom, so I'm not sure what your after with your first request.
- Its not exactly easy to track a previously taken path and map it to the current path, but it could be done. The biggest problem is storage of your previous paths. I have about 24GB of old tracks saved! I'm waiting for an 8GB mini SD ;)!
I'll have a look into the idea though.
- Displaying (and even graphing) current speed/time/altitude, ect are trivial and I already do that. I'll look into graphing.

Is anyone else interested in this app?

[rekall]

I would be interested in this for cycling and hiking.

[Yannn]

Sorry for this question but why don't you let members of this forum download sources of your GPS API ? Or directly the API compiled to let other programing theirs applications if it is better than windows API ?


For my application I need only to know :
- Altitude
- trip point (x,y)
- how to solve to have speed (v=D/t)

[rekall]

Have you seen http://gpsdash.com/news.php

[Matterhorn]

I'm always looking for more choice...here is one that many of my sport crazed friends are using. I may start using it for tracking my motorcycle rides too. Here is the software http://www.rungps.net/Wiki.jsp?page=HomeEN . Here is the online tracking server http://www.gps-sport.net/index.jsp .

[sthawk]

The reason I'm not releasing source is because I may, at some time in the future, make this into a commercial product and I don't want to ruin my chances with that.
The other is that I don't really think it is of much benefit to most people to release source for an application. I think it is far more useful to make a library of the useful functionality, with a well documented API of the thing, so that people can start at a higher level to implement their ideas. Since I don't yet have such a library, I can't release that either ;) .
I went riding on the weekend (its nice and sunny here), so I didn't get any more done on this.
From other people's responses, it looks like there's plenty to choose from anyway.
Once again, Yannn, there is documentation in the Microsoft SDK on how to access the gps (its called gpsapi).

[sthawk]

I have finally decided to release an early version of this software.

Its at
http://www.lukepaton.com/BikeGPS/

If you are able to set things up for yourself, and want to give it a try, go ahead. I haven't got a huge amount of time to support it, so it might take some playing around to get it working, particularly at first. There isn't a manual or help for it, so go looking through all the menus and see what you can find!
To get started, from the View menu, have a look at settings, and set up your paths and then from the Map|File menu, choose, Re-Read All Maps.

Cheers,
Luke

[evojulz]

Hi Luke

Thanks for the release. On first run, I got the message:

"Open File \CF Card\Data\BikeGPSMaps.mdt failed"

When I hit OK it closes. I made this directory path and chucked a .jpg in it and then it ran.

I see in Settings>Paths your default project is pointing to your compact flash card so I changed these to \Storage Card\...\

I have had a good look through the menus, it seems to be a pretty nice useful kit. I like the .sid support and export to .csv, even converts from OziExplorer:eek: Probably wouldn't use the player or sms fuctionality though.

Logged some data to the .gps_log file, will try and use it later.

Just can't see where to open map image. When I click open map it doesn't have anything in the list to select... No need to bother yourself with a full user manual, but it would be good to load a map background.

[sthawk]

Sorry, I first developed it for a Dell Axim, and an iPaq before that. They have CF Cards...

To get it to have some maps to open, Map|File|Re read all maps looks in the map path (Settings|Paths|Map Path) (Mine is \Storage Card\Maps\).

It prompts you for the kind of files to load (KAP, TIF, SID, MAP).
Yes, MAP is from Oziexplorer - some of the map CDs I bought used MAP files, but the code to interpret map files is a bit of a mess, and it doesn't support oziexplorer ozf files...

After that, Map|File|Open Map|All Maps should give you something to open.
You have to select a single map (multiple selection is for delete).

Anyway, its good to see that someone could even get the thing installed :o

[fimae]

Cannot access menu, progrram will stop after prompt of missing file, it is not installed in memory card/data either. Also shortcut is missing.

[sthawk]

Hi Fimae,

I used resco to add a shortcut, but the install program is supposed to put it in 'programs'.

Not sure what you mean by 'cant access menu'. There are about 7 menus, not including popups. Is the main menu visible?
See above about storage card. I'll make it allow you to browse for the storage card the first time it runs.

Thanks for your feedback.

Luke

[sthawk]

Now I'm all motivated :D

I've done an update which should make it easier to work out whats going on when first installing. It will prompt for the path to your files.
At the first prompt, enter /Storage Card/, or wherever your storage will be.
It automatically creates Data/ and Maps/, so put your maps under /Storage Card/Maps/.

The web page now displays the last version and update date.

[khurram41]

Hi, plz tell me if ur using any good cycle mount to hold trinity securely on the handle bar? where & how much u bought it for??? Anyone???

[sthawk]

After trying Arkon mounts and a few cheapies, I found the best was a metal case,
(like this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Metal-Hard-Case-for-Orange-SPV-M700-HTC-P3600-Trinity_W0QQitemZ250181437987QQihZ015QQcategoryZ15 0774QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) attached using double sided tape and a cable tie!
The problem with the Arkon-style mount is that they don't hold the device securely enough and are too bulky.

[fimae]

Hi Fimae,

I used resco to add a shortcut, but the install program is supposed to put it in 'programs'.

Not sure what you mean by 'cant access menu'. There are about 7 menus, not including popups. Is the main menu visible?
See above about storage card. I'll make it allow you to browse for the storage card the first time it runs.

Thanks for your feedback.

Luke
I ment that program stops to error dialog, and when i click it ok, application exits without seeing any menus. But now it worked wery well after writing \Storage Card\, thank you wery much.
I know this must be stupid question (like where is the any key) but i really does not understand what kind of form i have to use to copy maps to Bike gps? I have route66 and tomtom navigator maps (and for testing only miomap) in my storage card, i supposed that i cannot use map files from those apps?

[sthawk]

BikeGPS only supports raster maps (like bitmap files with a bit of extra info to connect the image with a physical latitude and longitude).

For Australia, you can buy these from places such as http://www.ja-gps.com.au/topo_maps1.htm and
http://www.gpsoz.com.au/mapping_products.htm.

Another option (if you know how) is to scan a physical map (provided it isn't copyrighted) and save it as a TIF or JPG file, and then provide the appropriate latitude and longitude extra info (or rather easting/northing and scale).

It is also only route planning software, it cannot do automatic route generation. It can, however use route generated by Google Earth, Google maps and other route software.

[sthawk]

I have posted an update to BikeGPS on my website

[wonderiuy]

wahou !
it's look like what i'm looking for ... without pearhaps a graph which expose speed and altitude during the trip... but i'm so interested ! what is the programation language use ? could you send me sources ?if you want, I can send you some draws to complet with option your soft ?

If u want the graph with speed, altitude and also acceleration u can try BeeLineGPS

[godzillaman]

Hi. I am very happy to find this forum.
I read the information in your site.
It says that it is for WM6, but Isaw many people with WM5 asking questions...

Does it work in this OS?
Thanks a lot. Keep it up. Fabulous work...

[sthawk]

Yes, it works fine with WM5. I use it on my Dell Axim X51v. For some reason, it doesn't care that I'm running the WM6 build on WM5.

I also have a build for WM2003, but its missing a lot of functionality (like GPX and KML files support and transparency of items on the map). If anyone wants the WM2003 version, just ask. I'd like to know if its worth continuing with it.

I am currently working on a Linux (Ubuntu 7.xx and Fedora 6 & 7 versions), but that will take time....

[sthawk]

I have added the WM2003 build to my site.
This might also be useful to those who don't want
- Music player support
- Phone support
- HANGUL character set for fonts
- Alpha Blend for items.
- The SMS interface.
- GPX/KML file support for routes (default goes back to RT2)
on other ARMV4 Pocket PCs.
Note that this has a work in progress in it - new file open dialog which allows selection from any folder, not just the ones that the Microsoft UI is capable of finding!

[cr2]

The reason I'm not releasing source is because I may, at some time in the future, make this into a commercial product and I don't want to ruin my chances with that.

I think you are underestimating the competition from things like oziexplorer,
and the free software alternatives based on qt4.
Qlandkarte ( http://qlandkarte.sf.net ) is already a viable alternative to
the use of garmin's mapsource, and there is a similar oziexplorer
replacement in work.
Since qt4 is available for wince too
http://trolltech.com/developer/downloads/qt/qt-windows-ce
it should not be difficult to compile these programs for wince
for those who need it.


I think it is far more useful to make a library of the useful functionality, with a well documented API of the thing, so that people can start at a higher level to implement their ideas.
oziexplorer has already tried to take this route, and the main rationale behind was
IMHO to force the user to use his shareware-crippled nonstandard raster formats ozf2 and ozf3.
But AFAIK the community has written the programs to remove
these artificial
limitations and convert ozf2/ozf3 into tiff/png directly.

[sthawk]

Hi Cr2,
Thanks for sending me the links, I haven't really looked at many other products.

I think there is lots of space in the GPS market for lots of different alternative kinds of products.

I have a licence to OziExplorer and OziExplorer CE, and actually started this project after OziExplorer didn't completely meet my needs. It all started because I wanted things like having easy access to the volume control and music track. I also wanted things like a record of speed recorded and distance to the next waypoint.

If I could have retrofitted the buttons for these things to the main screen of OziExplorer CE, I would still be using it.

I don't agree that ozfxx formats are all that much of a disadvantage. They are extremely fast and efficient for the purpose, and give the author of OziExplorer a way of appeasing map suppliers who want to ensure copyright rules are followed. Try coding up an interface to, say jpeg which is fast, uses almost no memory and can display a 320x240 window into a 6400x6400 file and survives without crashing when the machine is powered on, but the CF card isn't quite ready for a few seconds, if you can :p.

If you have a quick look at my web site, you would see that I have changed my mind, and do intend to release the source at some point in the future.

I have had almost no feedback on the release of the product, so I assume that most people haven't managed to get it to work, or don't have suitable maps. How much feedback will I get when I provide source :confused:?

I think that, in general, people prefer a 'package', containing everything they need to get started. Just as I don't provide music for the media player part, I'm not in a position to provide maps for the map part :D.

Cheers,
Luke

[cr2]

I have had almost no feedback on the release of the product, so I assume that most people haven't managed to get it to work, or don't have suitable maps. How much feedback will I get when I provide source :confused:?

It is possible to adapt your source for the devices you have never thought about :) I have an old dotcom Compaq Aero 8000 with 64MB RAM
oziexplorer freezes and crashes badly on this device, and there is
no chance to fix it :(


I think that, in general, people prefer a 'package', containing everything they need to get started. Just as I don't provide music for the media player part, I'm not in a position to provide maps for the map part :D.

Well, support .ozf2, there are plenty of maps in this format.
And don't forget about OSM http://www.openstreetmap.org

[sthawk]

Which OS does the Compaq Aero 8000 run? It looks like Handheld PC 2000

I think the best approach is to try to cut features to support the old os, as I have done for CE 2003. Does the CE 2003 install work, or does it give some errors?
Does anyone know if there is a CE 2000 or 2002 SDK available for Visual Studio 2005?

As for ozf2 support, its probably never going to happen. Unless I can find a clear, public description of the file format, how am I going to do it? Please convert your files to jpg or tiff.

I'll have a look at OSM.

[cr2]

Does anyone know if there is a CE 2000 or 2002 SDK available for Visual Studio 2005?

windows ce 2.11, and oziexplorer supports it. I think the SDKs are
available for eVC3 (which is a free download), but the main problem will be the inavailability of
aygshell.dll


As for ozf2 support, its probably never going to happen. Unless I can find a clear, public description of the file format, how am I going to do it?

google search for 'ozf2tiff' gives this link with the source code:

http://www.gps-forum.ru/cgi-bin/forum/showpost.pl?Board=gpsgeneral&Number=80882&page=&view=expanded&mode=flat&sb=#Post80882

[sthawk]

Actually, I think the main problem will be the pain of using eVC3 :(

My limit is what works with VC2005, so the oldest version I'm going to support is WM2003. There are lots of devices available for WM2003-WM6, so I don't think its much of a limitation. Anyway, this is a Trinity forum!

Thanks again for the links. All my searches about ozf2 never yielded anything useful.

The next release of BikeGPS will have ozf2 support :) I hope it works for 'protected' maps because I have lots of them from my NRMA sets.

Now, cr2, see if you can do your google magic and find some info about UBD maps ;)