Tilt GPS VS SIRF III [pics] [Archive]

randomtask16

12-10-2007, 04:55 AM

I thought I'd do a signal comparison with the new tilt. I used TomTom gps viewer for ease of use.

Here are my results.
Patio area:Fairly covered, narrow view to N and E 45* at best, mostly 80*ish
SIRFIII
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/SirfIIIpatio.jpg
Tilt on Patio: NO FIX

Next I went to the car. Its in parking lot surrounded by buildings, about 45* clear on 3 sides, 60* on one side....
SIRFIII At sunroof
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/SirfIIIsunroof.jpg
Tilt at sunroof
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/Tiltsunroof.jpg

I used the sunroof because I typically put the SIRFIII receiver in the sunroof slider for best signal, this is obviously not possible with the tilt so I also tested at the console...
Next post....Pic limit...

randomtask16

12-10-2007, 04:56 AM

SIRFIII at console
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/SirfIIIconsole.jpg
Tilt at console
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/Tiltconsole.jpg

Notice the Tilt at sunroof is nearly = to SIRFIII at console...

Now I tried one to test the SIRFIII's capabilities.

Inside garage with door closed on bottom floor of 3 story building on the console....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/SirfIII3consolegaraged.jpg
I couldn't believe it still got a fix on there, I'm amazed
And of course
Tilt in garage on console...NO FIX (duh)

If anyone else has results/input please do add.

Penske MB

12-10-2007, 04:57 AM

I am inside the building, and still get result!

I thought I'd do a signal comparison with the new tilt. I used TomTom gps viewer for ease of use.

Here are my results.
Patio area:Fairly covered, narrow view to N and E 45* at best, mostly 80*ish
SIRFIII
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/SirfIIIpatio.jpg
Tilt on Patio: NO FIX

Next I went to the car. Its in parking lot surrounded by buildings, about 45* clear on 3 sides, 60* on one side....
SIRFIII At sunroof
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/SirfIIIsunroof.jpg
Tilt at sunroof
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/Tiltsunroof.jpg

I used the sunroof because I typically put the SIRFIII receiver in the sunroof slider for best signal, this is obviously not possible with the tilt so I also tested at the console...
Next post....Pic limit...

randomtask16

12-10-2007, 05:04 AM

I am inside the building, and still get result!

Yea thats what I keep hearing, but I have to be away from buildings out on the clear open to get a fix though...hmmm

pmow

12-10-2007, 05:50 AM

Yea thats what I keep hearing, but I have to be away from buildings out on the clear open to get a fix though...hmmm

Same here. =/

willieb9000

12-10-2007, 07:10 AM

me too. I get no fix inside my 2 story house with no trees around. I lose fix even inside a train that is travelling through a wide open area.

kavi

12-10-2007, 07:53 AM

gogol

12-10-2007, 09:33 AM

I have never got a fix inside a room and I think this is quite obvious.

And basically I dont really care, why do I need to use GPS inside a room?

The thing that really important for me:

- How is it perform? Do you get signal lost quite often?

No, I dont. I have the same experience when using my old Magician+BT-338 Sirf III external GPS.

In some rural area in Belgium I noticed the Kaiser GPS has only 1 bar of signal, and it worked fine.

- How fast is it to get satellite fix after exiting a tunnel?

Again, same experience with my old SirfIII GPS.

- How fast is it to get the first satellite fix after turned on?

Very fast, between 5 - 30 seconds :) The same experience with my old SirfIII GPS.

Well, at least, thats my own experience.

For sure, SirfIII GPS could be more powerful than the NMEA of Kaiser, but the NMEA is powerful enough :)

At first I was quite skeptical about this NMEA vs SirfIII, but not anymore.

Next week, another test ... 450 km driving to Germany :)

ghaith_d

12-10-2007, 12:56 PM

gogol

12-10-2007, 01:22 PM

What's the difference? :)

Definetely holiday + shopping.

I've never been there, so I am not sure if I am gonna like it though.

Nice! u goin for vacay or shopping?

sgt-spam

12-10-2007, 02:37 PM

I find my Kaiser VERY slow to get a lock. Even outside with no obstructions. More than two or three minutes in most cases.

I'm comparing to a Garmin Nuvi 660...

Only software I have tried is the GPS photo and Google Maps.

evilc

12-10-2007, 02:38 PM

The Kaiser GPS is A-GPS, meaning it can use mobile phone signals to aid a fix.
Personally, going from a bluetooth sirfIII to the kaiser GPS, I don't notice a difference in accuracy in day-to-day usage.

Fix time, however, with the Kaiser, is much, much quicker. 5 seconds max usually.

I find my Kaiser VERY slow to get a lock. Even outside with no obstructions. More than two or three minutes in most cases.

I'm comparing to a Garmin Nuvi 660...

Only software I have tried is the GPS photo and Google Maps.
Have you updated the GPS quickfix software? This downloads the satellite positions in advance so that it does not have to download them from the satellites, which is low bandwidth and subject to interference. Even if you could see every satellite, you won't get a "lock" until it knows where the satellites are and can do the triangulation.

sherpa

12-10-2007, 03:58 PM

I have always been able to get a fix inside my living room. The only place (inside) where I have not been able to get a fix is at my workplace, but, then again, I don't get cellphone signal at workplace either. ;)

pmow

12-10-2007, 06:06 PM

It seems we either had a poor experience with it, or a great one. I'm using the ATT ROM.

txcas

12-10-2007, 08:04 PM

jcespi2005

12-10-2007, 08:28 PM

AGPS (Assisted GPS) is disabled in AT&T's ROM. Can someone with the HTC ROM check HKLM\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS\EnableAGPS?

On the AT&T ROM EnableAGPS is disabled, or set to 0 and the GPSMode is 2. What are these values on the HTC ROM?

On the HTC ROM the EnableAGPS is disabled too (set to 0) and GPSMode is 2 too...

Seems Assisted GPS are disabled in HTC too. Can be enabled changing the EnableAGPS?

What are the advantage of using instead of QuickGPS?

Thanks.

txcas

12-10-2007, 08:39 PM

AGPS will help get your location using the cell network. I will enable it and see if it help getting GPS locks while indoors.

yozh

12-10-2007, 09:01 PM

AGPS will help get your location using the cell network. I will enable it and see if it help getting GPS locks while indoors.
Did it help at all ? Very intresting

txcas

12-10-2007, 09:18 PM

It did not help at all. The server configured in the registry is for Orange in France. Unless we find one server that works for us in the US, I don't think we can use this feature.

jcespi2005

12-10-2007, 09:26 PM

It did not help at all. The server configured in the registry is for Orange in France. Unless we find one server that works for us in the US, I don't think we can use this feature.

Yes, you are right, this is the info for the serverIP in my HTC spanish ROM

Nombre: LNeuilly-152-21-109-109.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr
Address: 193.253.42.109

I'll give a try and see if get data indoor...

kavi

12-10-2007, 10:00 PM

AGPS (Assisted GPS) is disabled in AT&T's ROM. Can someone with the HTC ROM check HKLM\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS\EnableAGPS?

On the AT&T ROM EnableAGPS is disabled, or set to 0 and the GPSMode is 2. What are these values on the HTC ROM?

Same settings on my Kaiser. Did you try downloading the updates through Quick GPS?

Same settings?
[Mobile Device\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\QuickGPS]
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7346/qgpsgq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Mobile Device\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\QuickGPS\0\ 0]
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4319/agps2ma9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

jcespi2005

12-10-2007, 10:06 PM

Yes, you are right, this is the info for the serverIP in my HTC spanish ROM

Nombre: LNeuilly-152-21-109-109.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr
Address: 193.253.42.109

I'll give a try and see if get data indoor...

Well, i tested the enableAGPS to 1, and when TomTom starts, the data services goes on, but can't get valid data from the IP in ServerIP, cause the TomTom says can't get fixed position, so we need to find valid servers that allow to get localization data from cellular position.

Anyone have other different ServerIP ?

Regards.

kavi

12-10-2007, 10:11 PM

Well, i tested the enableAGPS to 1, and when TomTom starts, the data services goes on, but can't get valid data from the IP in ServerIP, cause the TomTom says can't get fixed position, so we need to find valid servers that allow to get localization data from cellular position.

Anyone have other different ServerIP ?

Regards.

Enabled AGPS started TT fix in 4 seconds indoor.

Did you receive an error after enabling the AGPS?

txcas

12-10-2007, 10:15 PM

Same settings on my Kaiser. Did you try downloading the updates through Quick GPS?

Same settings?
[Mobile Device\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\QuickGPS]
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7346/qgpsgq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Mobile Device\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\QuickGPS\0\ 0]
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4319/agps2ma9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yes I did and no luck indoors.

yozh

12-10-2007, 10:15 PM

Enabled AGPS started TT fix in 4 seconds indoor.

Did you receive an error after enabling the AGPS?
Wow trying now !!!!! You on stock ATT ROM ?

kavi

12-10-2007, 10:16 PM

Wow trying now !!!!! You on stock ATT ROM ?

Nopes. HTC

BTW: Enabling or disabling the AGPS in registry makes no difference on my unit. Either way I get a fix under 10 seconds (overall)

yozh

12-10-2007, 10:21 PM

Nopes. HTC

BTW: Enabling or disabling the AGPS in registry makes no difference on my unit. Either way I get a fix under 10 seconds (overall)
Well it didnt work for me. I wonder if we use the xtra1.gpsonextra.net as the serverip in the HKLM\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS\SererIP and maybe the port to 80
let me try that

jcespi2005

12-10-2007, 10:22 PM

Enabled AGPS started TT fix in 4 seconds indoor.

Did you receive an error after enabling the AGPS?

No, any error. Enable, reboot, and start TomTom. After start tomtom, data connection goes on, but no luck fixing the possition. No error, simply no fix.

sgt-spam

12-10-2007, 10:23 PM

Have you updated the GPS quickfix software? This downloads the satellite positions in advance so that it does not have to download them from the satellites, which is low bandwidth and subject to interference. Even if you could see every satellite, you won't get a "lock" until it knows where the satellites are and can do the triangulation.

Yes, I've updated the quick fix software before starting Google Maps. I received TomTom with my device, but never installed it because I have the Garmin. I suppose it's possible that Google Maps is just slow...

Maybe I'll try out the TT software and see if it fixes any quicker.

kavi

12-10-2007, 10:26 PM

No, any error. Enable, reboot, and start TomTom. After start tomtom, data connection goes on, but no luck fixing the possition. No error, simply no fix.

Weird I tried the same but the data connection won't start up.

Are you using a Kaiser or a Tilt?

What is the size of your Windows\xtra.bin file? (37k here)

jcespi2005

12-10-2007, 10:28 PM

Weird I tried the same but the data connection won't start up.

Are you using a Kaiser or a Tilt?

HTC (in my signature ;) )

I found this post that can be ussefull, i'll give a try to the parameters and see if works...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1312425&postcount=130

EDIT: Tried the parameters for the post, but no luck, no fix.

yozh

12-10-2007, 10:30 PM

Putting the xtra1.gpsonextra.net didnt work. I guess you need the carrier to have a server to be able to assist you with the GPS

yozh

12-10-2007, 10:34 PM

Check this out.

http://www.u-blox.com/services/index.html

mtiffee

12-10-2007, 10:38 PM

Hey what program was used for those screen shots? I've been looking for something like that... or do I already have it without a shortcut. Thanks.

kavi

12-10-2007, 10:40 PM

HTC (in my signature ;) )

I found this post that can be ussefull, i'll give a try to the parameters and see if works...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1312425&postcount=130

My entries:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Drivers\BuiltIn\GPSID]
"Context"=dword:00000000
"Dll"="GPSID_QCT.dll"
"Flags"=dword:00000002
"IClass"="{A32942B7-920C-486b-B0E6-92A702A99B35}"
"Index"=dword:00000000
"Keep"=dword:00000001
"Order"=dword:00000010
"Prefix"="GPD"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver]
"CurrentLogFile"="\\windows\\GPSLogFile.txt"
"IsEnabled"=dword:00000001
"OldLogFile"="\\windows\\GPSLogFileBack.txt"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers]
"CurrentDriver"="GPSOneDevice"
"InputBufferSize"=dword:00001000
"OutputBufferSize"=dword:00001000
"RetryWaitOnError"=dword:00000003
"SleepOnNoData"=dword:000003e8

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GPSOneDevice]
"DriverName"="TAI"
"FriendlyName"="QualComm GpsOne Card, version 0.0"
"InterfaceType"="POLL"
"PollInterval"=dword:000001f4
"Version"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GPSOneEmulate]
"Filex"="\\windows\\GPSOneFileSimulation.txt"
"FriendlyName"="QualComm GpsOne File, version 0.0"
"InterfaceType"="File"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Drivers\GPSOnePort]
"CommPort"="COM1:"
"FriendlyName"="QualComm GpsOne Card, version 0.0"
"InterfaceType"="COMM"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Multiplexer]
"DriverInterface"="COM4:"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\Multiplexer\ActiveDevice]
"Context"=dword:12344160
"Dll"="GPSID_QCT.dll"
"Flags"=dword:00000002
"Index"=dword:00000004
"Keep"=dword:00000001
"Prefix"="COM"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS]
"EnableAGPS"=dword:00000001
"GPSMode"=dword:00000002
"NumberFixes"=dword:3b9ac9ff
"QoSAccuracy"=dword:00000032
"QosPerformance"=dword:00000059
"ServerIP"="193.253.42.109"
"ServerPort"=dword:00001c6b
"TimeBetweenFixes"=dword:00000001

kavi

12-10-2007, 10:43 PM

Hey what program was used for those screen shots? I've been looking for something like that... or do I already have it without a shortcut. Thanks.

http://www.soti.net/default.asp?Cmd=Products&SubCmd=PCPro

jcespi2005

12-10-2007, 10:53 PM

My entries:

"ServerIP"="193.253.42.109"
"ServerPort"=dword:00001c6b

I'll try this values and report back....

Thanks.

yozh

12-10-2007, 11:02 PM

I'll try this values and report back....

Thanks.
Thats the original IP that was in the original ROM ! We have to find a server that actually works! the 193.253.42.109 does respond to requests on port 7275 but it doesnt seem to help us. Or I might be inside where the signal is imposible to catch!!!!

jcespi2005

12-10-2007, 11:16 PM

Thats the original IP that was in the original ROM ! We have to find a server that actually works! the 193.253.42.109 does respond to requests on port 7275 but it doesnt seem to help us. Or I might be inside where the signal is imposible to catch!!!!

Yes, is the original IP, and GOOD NEWS, works.

The question is you need to get som real sattelite signal before get fixed. Don't need to get full signal, but a little. Then, once you are fixed, you can go indoor and tomtom continues working with fixed location.

Te conclussion is you can't get AGPS works only indoor, you need a little real sattellite signal to get fixed.

Next test is go to a tunnel where the cell changes and see how AGPS works inside the tunnel.

I report back.

Thanks all.

yozh

12-10-2007, 11:18 PM

Yes, is the original IP, and GOOD NEWS, works.

The question is you need to get som real sattelite signal before get fixed. Don't need to get full signal, but a little. Then, once you are fixed, you can go indoor and tomtom continues working with fixed location.

Te conclussion is you can't get AGPS works only indoor, you need a little real sattellite signal to get fixed.

Next test is go to a tunnel where the cell changes and see how AGPS works inside the tunnel.

I report back.

Thanks all.
Hmmm intresting. very intresting. I tought it works the other way around. The AGPS supposed to help you get the signal faster.

mtiffee

12-10-2007, 11:33 PM

http://www.soti.net/default.asp?Cmd=Products&SubCmd=PCPro

Thanks Kavi, sorry I should've been more clear. What program was used for the GPS reception information that was shown on the screen shots?

noams

12-10-2007, 11:45 PM

2 stories above me.

For me it basically works every where I have tried. Locks under 5 seconds. Used to have the Ipaq 6945 and took almost a minute to lock and never got a lock inside buildings. I do know know how well this compares to external ones since I never got the chance to try any. Overall very satisfied.

I get a fix inside my house in a room with no windows, I get a fix in under 10sec and fix quality is always high.

Go a fix inside a plane while in cruise at 500kt in 35,000ft.

Couldn't do that same with my SIRFIII OnCourse II GPS

randomtask16

13-10-2007, 11:05 AM

I get a fix inside my house in a room with no windows, I get a fix in under 10sec and fix quality is always high.

Go a fix inside a plane while in cruise at 500kt in 35,000ft.

Couldn't do that same with my SIRFIII OnCourse II GPS

Heres my SIRF III external used to test in the first posts, but on airplane in the window....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/randomtask16/display_2.jpg

jcespi2005

13-10-2007, 11:17 AM

Yes, is the original IP, and GOOD NEWS, works.

The question is you need to get som real sattelite signal before get fixed. Don't need to get full signal, but a little. Then, once you are fixed, you can go indoor and tomtom continues working with fixed location.

Te conclussion is you can't get AGPS works only indoor, you need a little real sattellite signal to get fixed.

Next test is go to a tunnel where the cell changes and see how AGPS works inside the tunnel.

I report back.

Thanks all.

Well, tested today inside a long tunnel, and tomtom waste one minute to get fixed from lost the real sattelite signal. I suppose one minute is the time needed aprox. to get the info from internet about cell possition. If the tunnel is enough long you can see this.

Regards.

Heijdemann

13-10-2007, 11:59 AM

It surprise me always in this kind of matters the way of measurement and conslusions of this primitive measurement.
The same that people always said/think after flashing a new rom it is a lot faster without any evidence, most of time it is placebo effect.
This way of measurement you can compare when the docter listning with his ears on your chess or lungs without a stethoscoop and says you are not healty or you are healty in my humble opinion.

gogol

13-10-2007, 05:08 PM

I just came back from Brussel, and there was something bothering me.

When I started from The Netherlands, the signal was good, about 3 - 4 bars.

As I said, sometimes the signal drop to 1 bar although the navigation still no problem, TomTom works fine with 1 bar signal.

From parking place in Brussel (outside city), under very clear sky, sunshine, it was quite difficult to get a fix !

It lost very often ...

Fixed ... lost ... fixed ... lost ... and on and on ...

Then I entered the city center, and could get a steady fix with only 1 bar !

Ok, nevermind, TomTom still worked fine.

Had lunch and decided to go back to The Netherlands.

Again, it was difficult to get a fix for about 1 minute ... fixed .. lost ... fixed ... lost.

Then got 1 bar. In the highway, it managed to have only 1 bar signal all the time.

So, I thought, this could not be right because the sky is so clear, very good weather.

I decided to soft-reset ...

Guess what? After soft-reset, it got signal for 3 - 4 bars !

Entered The Netherlands and still with 4 - Full bars !

So ...

What could be the problem? It is still to early to say it could be hardware issue. But it is still annoying while driving and waiting to get signal fixed.

Is there somekind like a cache or buffer internally that got "dirty" (corrupted) and need to be reset / refresh?

Do you think there is signal strength different between countries?

Because I thought the signal in The Netherlands always better than in Belgium.

Anyway, from my experience, if you always get 1 bar weak signal, try to soft-reset, maybe it could help :D

PS: Tomorrow, next test, 450 km to Germany :) I will bring my BT external GPS for backup!