What is the highest bitrate video the kaiser can handle? [Archive]

fastblack

5th December 2007, 10:43 PM

I want to convert some videos/movies to put on my kaiser, and would like to know what is the best format to use, and highest quality/bitrate i can use. I know the ipod can play 1500kbps mp4 perfectly, but it certainly doesnt work as well on a kaiser. Is there another format perhaps, that it can decode better with a high bitrate? Divx, etc...

So far ive tried mp4 at around 500kbps and it plays pretty much fine. and i synced a movie using wmp to 384kpbs and that works fine as well, but doesnt look so hot...

ericc191

5th December 2007, 10:48 PM

I'd say stay under or at 500.. until they update the graphics and video drivers, anything over wont play too well. I tested a 700 WMV Top Gear episode (love top gear :D) and it was ripping and freezing like mad..

fastblack

5th December 2007, 10:51 PM

I transfered a 300 from my friends iphone to my tilt via wifi (which by the way is freaking cool) which was 1500kpbs, it was just sad to watch it try and play. I figured dual core 400mhz proc could handle it... Guess not till drivers come out.

Farsquidge

5th December 2007, 10:52 PM

fastblack

5th December 2007, 10:55 PM

haha. i would never trade my kaiser for an iphone. Those things suck other then the video playback. I know what my kaiser can do, and thats why I love the thing. I'm not complaining about the kaiser in general, just wish it played video a little better.
Notice i didnt mention anything about actualy wanting an iphone

Bratag

5th December 2007, 11:08 PM

OK, now I KNOW the Apple PA department are performing a dark war...

Its a POWER PPC!!! video play is a basic extra to all the other stuff an Ispudge can't do!!!

Get an Ispudge and throw you 'Kaiser' away and don't come on this forum if you are not happy (or have the knowledge to use it to its capability)!

Stop moaning!! :mad:

Lets see - I paid 700 Bucks for this phone .... and you dont think that entitles me to want it to do what it is advertised to do right on the box? Why dont you take your HTC fanboy mouth and go back to kissing their butt. This forum is to discuss issues and as far as 99.9% of the community is concerned. The video playback and graphics performance in general is an ISSUE!!!.

Personally I love my Kaiser ... but I recognize its shortcomings as well.

Farsquidge

5th December 2007, 11:15 PM

Lets see - I paid 700 Bucks for this phone .... and you dont think that entitles me to want it to do what it is advertised to do right on the box? Why dont you take your HTC fanboy mouth and go back to kissing their butt. This forum is to discuss issues and as far as 99.9% of the community is concerned. The video playback and graphics performance in general is an ISSUE!!!.

Personally I love my Kaiser ... but I recognize its shortcomings as well.

Sorry to disagree but this forum is not to discuss YOUR personal gripe!, it was developed for the enthusiastic DEVELOPMENT of this equipment! and solving problems ourselves (technically, not OH I can't do it...let me sue!!!.

Get your facts in place first and come up to date with the Broadcomm v Qualcomm lawsuit (still ongoing) and find out why US does not have d3d and your phones were late in deployment. Blame the US not me pal! :rolleyes:

Bratag

5th December 2007, 11:32 PM

Sorry to disagree but this forum is not to discuss YOUR personal gripe!, it was developed for the enthusiastic DEVELOPMENT of this equipment! and solving problems ourselves (technically, not OH I can't do it...let me sue!!!.

Get your facts in place first and come up to date with the Broadcomm v Qualcomm lawsuit (still ongoing) and find out why US does not have d3d and your phones were late in deployment. Blame the US not me pal! :rolleyes:

Well as it has been pointed out previously to this thread - the law suit between Qualcomm and Broadcomm affects only the US. Given that HTC is not a US company, and in fact I didnt BUY my phone in the US I bought it direct from HTC. Explain to me how the lawsuit affects them developing drivers for the chip? Also Why should I have to solve the issue myself - am I not entitled to support? If you bought a car with a 300 HP engine in it and found out they didnt provide a drive shaft and you had to install one yourself ... does that sound like a good deal. This is no different. We bought the HW based on the press releases/specs all of which mention the qualcomm chip and its capabilities.

I didnt mention suing - I am in fact for the most part against litigation. I simply want either HTC/Qualcomm/MS (but mostly HTC) to step up to their responsibilities. Sometimes an LS is the only way to get companies to do that - but I for one hope it doesnt come down to that.

Farsquidge

5th December 2007, 11:45 PM

This is no different. We bought the HW based on the press releases/specs all of which mention the qualcomm chip and its capabilities.

Have you actually looked and worked on this device at programming level or are you just one of the 'mob'??

Why do you think I am here??? The Qualcomm chip is working just as much as it is allowed to.! :cool:

Bratag

5th December 2007, 11:57 PM

Have you actually looked and worked on this device at programming level or are you just one of the 'mob'??

Why do you think I am here??? The Qualcomm chip is working just as much as it is allowed to.! :cool:

No - I am an end consumer. I shouldnt have to learn how to program driver code (which by the way I can do being a programmer of drivers under linux etc and a coder by trade - of course that would actually require HW specs which we also dont have - but back to the point).

Why in the name of hell should I be responsible for fixing this issue? To use the car analogy again. If you buy a car and its under warranty and the clutch breaks - should you have to learn how to replace its clutch or do you take it back to the dealer?

I know the chip is working as much as its allowed to - the problem is the allowed amount sucks, thats the goddamn issue. You dont hear me complaining about the GPS - I use my garmin software on it and couldnt be happier with it. This is about BAD DRIVER SUPPORT!!. Its no different to ATI or NVIDIA providing bad drivers for vista when it first came out. The community went nuts when everything that used to work well under xp stopped working well. Well quite frankly my graphic ssupport was better under my wizard and thats a 3 year old + phone now. What you see here is the community expressing its displeasure at bad drivers.

Oh and if you check the d3d thread you will see I am following it - And have added what little input I can given the total lack of communication from HTC. You can see in that thread that other windows mobile phones using the qualcomm chip seem to have 3d/graphics support, why exactly can LG ect manage it and HTC not?

ericc191

6th December 2007, 12:04 AM

Farsquidge

6th December 2007, 12:16 AM

No - I am an end consumer.

Sorry didn't want to quote your whole message as it was a bit large but just took the relevant bit!!

As in the rest of your rant! you quote about buying a car!! If you bought a car, without test driving it first, how would the laws cover you in the US???

You are one of many who are jumping on this d3d lobby. If you dont like the phone, THROW IT AWAY!!! If you check (and I mean REALLY check)all adds for this device they are not claiming anything above what you have, you are following rumour) Don't moan about what you have spent on it as with anyone SENSIBLE enough to think WHY DID YOU PAY SO MUCH TO buy a phone that does not fulfill your requirements WITHOUT CHECKING what you want????

DOH!! You are embarrasing yourself...

Bratag

6th December 2007, 12:16 AM

http://www.htc.com/support/pdf/htctytnII/Kaiser_HTC_English_Manual_web.pdf

Check out page 219/220. See the supported video formats. Go ahead and try open a h.264 video in media player. The drivers cant even do the formats that they give in the user manual.

PS: A test drive has f**k all to do with the example I quoted. You can test drive a car and not have it break - but when it does should you be responsible for learning how to fix it? More to the point car manufacturers issue recalls to fix issues all the time. Even after a TEST DRIVE. I never said I didnt like the phone BUT IT HAS A GODDAMN ISSUE. Why can you not acknowledge that when 99.9% of the user base does. If you cant then just sod off and stop posting your htc fanboy crap in the threads. All you do is troll. I am out of this. You are the one embarassing yourself. So far you havent come up with a single valid argument - from the lawsuit to your rebuttal of my example.

fastblack

6th December 2007, 12:21 AM

hes not embarrasing himself.
you are just showing how much of an ass you seem to be.

Farsquidge

6th December 2007, 12:33 AM

http://www.htc.com/support/pdf/htctytnII/Kaiser_HTC_English_Manual_web.pdf

Check out page 219/220. See the supported video formats. Go ahead and try open a h.264 video in media player. The drivers cant even do the formats that they give in the user manual.

Again You are confusing HTC's quotation of WM6 OS of what it 'SHOULD' be able to do against what it 'CAN' do.... This has nothing to do with the Qualcomm chip and HTC as a whole, they are limited by the OS and its capabilities.

Check out my LinksysWVC54GC IP cam link thread. The downstreamed mjpeg video is excellent using TCPMP (OH BTW uses d3d!! as WM player in WM6 is still limited and can not!)

Go to basics and realise WM6 and its basic apps is still requiring major changes!!!

Soz if I upset, but just putting the facts.

GTRoberts

6th December 2007, 02:34 AM

I'm confused :)

Bratag... this is *NOT* the "HTC Kaiser Consumer Support" forum. If you have a problem with HTC's Support, I suggest you contact them directly.

This forum is for people that have the phone and want to develop their own programs for it etc.

To use your car analogy; this forum is like Fred down the road, he's replaced the windscreen wipers on his own car, in his own garage, with bright flash ones that the car manufacturer didn't make. He believes that makes his car a bit better than when he bought it...

RemE

6th December 2007, 02:46 AM

Just a short fact on the topic, I have a library of movies encoded at around 475 kb/sec at 320x240 that I've used on Archos Players, PPCs, 8525, and now Kaiser with TCPMP and they play and look perfect.

I would like the correct drivers as well to increase general video performance, the Kaiser just cuts it close right now as-is.

jgermuga

6th December 2007, 04:35 PM

I'm confused :)
This forum is for people that have the phone and want to develop their own programs for it etc.

I whole heartedly disagree

So the "xda-developers > General Discussion > Development and Hacking" is for??

Or the "xda-developers > Kaiser > Kaiser Upgrading" ?

And why are people getting all over Bratag anyway? He didn't intend to flame anyone, which can not be said by some other members.

Back on topic, I would be interested in what people's experiences are with encoding settings that DO work. It does su<& that I have to use two or more different encodings, and it is definitely disappointing that I can't even play a video file without intervention that my $150 camera can record and play, but if we get back to discussing encoding/transcoding to some particular formats and settings, we can actually help each other instead of bashing.

So for WM6, it sounds like bitrate is best to be <500. Does the fomat matter? I have heard Divx and/or AVI. Has anyone tried any others? Can a difference be seen between them?

Farsquidge

6th December 2007, 04:48 PM

I find some of the Freeware transcoders to be very 'hit n miss' such as PocketDivX and Pocket DVD, unable to keep audio/video sync on large files.

If you have all the necessary codecs for WM player on your PC so they will play on it (for most dowladed DivX files that end in .avi you will need latest DivX codec and an AC3 audio codec) then just sync them to your phone and they should play quite well in Pocket WM player and even better on TCPMP with RAW selected! :)

fusi

6th December 2007, 08:57 PM

i think you need to calm down - its almost as if you dont want your device to support 3d or accelerated surfaces - what is wrong with you?

Farsquidge

6th December 2007, 09:04 PM

i think you need to calm down - its almost as if you dont want your device to support 3d or accelerated surfaces - what is wrong with you?

???? What has d3d got to do with video playback???? I really think there is some stupid dark PA work from Apple here now...

:(

dsyro

7th December 2007, 06:34 PM

???? What has d3d got to do with video playback???? I really think there is some stupid dark PA work from Apple here now...

:(

Why hasn't this guy been banned yet?

Seriously, what are you doing here? These are customer forums. If HTC wants to speak officially, they should assign a representative that clearly states he's with them, not some spy.

Or maybe you're just obsessive in which case you're excused.

Farsquidge

7th December 2007, 06:54 PM

Why hasn't this guy been banned yet?

Seriously, what are you doing here? These are customer forums. If HTC wants to speak officially, they should assign a representative that clearly states he's with them, not some spy.

Or maybe you're just obsessive in which case you're excused.

Last I heard this was the XDA-Developers forum, not the XDA-Consumer forum!

All I'm trying to say is there seems to be a plethora of Threads around at the moment totally Flaming this device when most of us find it perfect for our needs.

What we really need to see are constructive, developement threads where we address the issues with our brains and not placards.

This is a good example...

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745

It's a brilliant thread that all should watch and assist in if they can. :)

fastblack

7th December 2007, 07:30 PM

Farsquidge

7th December 2007, 07:48 PM

can a mod just delete every post here that doesnt list what bitrate/codec to use for encoding videos.

I've hurd divx is better them mpeg4 as far as quality and how well it plays on the phone, but i havnt tried it yet, does anyone have input on this?

Sorry, and I agree with you.

What the actual highest bitrate value the device can play is actually a hard figure to determin. It all depends on:-
a, how good the playback app you have is good at decoding.
b, the resolution of the picture and codec used.
c, how many background tasks are running on the device (flight mode best)

WM player built into the Microsoft OS has always been a poor simple app. TCPMP is a very good alternative that can play many file types.

I find DivX to be the best solution and if you get the latest DivX codec on your PC with an AC3 audio codec you can transfer and convert most DivX to the correct resolution for a Windows Mobile device via WM Player on the PC sync tab. :)

fusi

7th December 2007, 08:17 PM

???? What has d3d got to do with video playback????

nothing at all - but the drivers that provide 3d support will (almost always) also support accelerated 2d surfaces (hw pixel buffers etc) - which is what things like video players use to render/resize/whatever video - hence the 'directdraw' option in core player for example

lol @

stupid dark PA work from Apple

do you work for HTC :)

aaaaaaaaaaaanyway - i can get away with around a peak of 950kbit/s xvid video stream before it starts getting choppy - tbh if you can, convert your video down to the screensize and you will be fine - i do batch converts on my server for meh tv proggies overnight and watch em on the bus - tis great <3

Farsquidge

7th December 2007, 08:43 PM

do you work for HTC :)

Nope, just like the phone...:D

One other help is if you use TCPMP, have rawframebuffer enabled under 'Options' 'Video'.

I can't get any bitrate from this but the vid quality is much better when using DivX files.

Bratag

7th December 2007, 09:53 PM

Nope, just like the phone...:D

One other help is if you use TCPMP, have rawframebuffer enabled under 'Options' 'Video'.

I can't get any bitrate from this but the vid quality is much better when using DivX files.

Has anyone else said they don't like the phone? No what we said is that there are serious issues with the graphics performance due to the fact that appropriate hardware drivers were not provided. You keep telling us to go to HTC support. I have 3 times now and receive the same answer each time... we are not aware of an issue, we aren't planning on releasing drivers soon etc. Since at least 2200+ people believe there is an issue - the least they could do is acknowledge it...

Anyway back on topic... using h264 encoding I find that at 320x240 I am able to watch 400KB encoded video using coreplayer without problem. The quality at that rate is very good for h.264 and of course the file size is smaller than divx. For divx at correct screen size I am able to easily watch 750KB encoded stuff. The main thing with video is correctly sizing to 320x240. In any video player - sizing on the fly to fix to screen is much more CPU intensive (another thing which wouldn't be an issue if we had drivers to take advantage of the hardware rather than relying on software to do both tasks) and as a result you can watch say 640x480 only at much lower bitrates.

Farsquidge

7th December 2007, 10:03 PM

:o You keep telling us to go to HTC support. I have 3 times now and receive the same answer each time... we are not aware of an issue, we aren't planning on releasing drivers soon etc. Since at least 2200+ people believe there is an issue - the least they could do is acknowledge it...

OK, and I don't blame ANY moderator from removing these posts!

I have NEVER said go to HTC support!!!!

Please look at your poll and look at the view numbers!! POLL/Viewers (that is people total!)

It is 10%!! which quite remarkably coincides with the percentage of AT&T 'Tilt' users!!!

My last comment on this (sigh of relief from you here :) )..Let's keep it developer related from now on OK? :o

Bratag

7th December 2007, 10:48 PM

:o

OK, and I don't blame ANY moderator from removing these posts!

I have NEVER said go to HTC support!!!!

Please look at your poll and look at the view numbers!! POLL/Viewers (that is people total!)

It is 10%!! which quite remarkably coincides with the percentage of AT&T 'Tilt' users!!!

My last comment on this (sigh of relief from you here :) )..Let's keep it developer related from now on OK? :o

Ok now I'm really out ... I have tried to get you to acknowledge the issue. Heck even reading my post instead of knee jerk reacting to it with fanboy diatribe would be a start. Should have listened to my old mum. Never argue with a moron they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

You are happy with the phone as is ... that's great - I strongly suggest you stay away from threads in which people are NOT entirely happy and trying to get things improved for the entire community. We don't need your troll in them.

Oh and one final note, so the thread has 23k views but only 2200 signatures. Since I view the thread several times a day, many times a week , please explain to me how view numbers have anything to do with a percentage of tilt owners?

fusi

8th December 2007, 05:53 PM

One other help is if you use TCPMP, have rawframebuffer enabled under 'Options' 'Video'.

i also recommend rawbuffer though have noticed that it does occasionally sheer - gdi doesnt seem so afflicted so i would assume gdi is double buffered

abubasim

8th December 2007, 08:05 PM

Wikipedia's TyTN II page mentions the video driver issue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_TyTN_II). Maybe those of you that feel that there is no problem what so ever with the TyTN II should go and correct this serious misinformation/harmful propaganda/slander against HTC?

Farsquidge

8th December 2007, 08:41 PM

mikef1182

18th December 2007, 04:34 AM

How about settings for use with stereo BT? I have som evideo in divx and in mp4 that play ok, but whe I use my moto s9, the video skips and slows alot. Is there a audio encoding settings I should be using?

Thanks for any help!

princeasi

18th December 2007, 05:27 AM

Well... Movies that I have coded into avi's for my 8125 with wm6 played smooth on my 2125 & 8125 whereas, with my tilt, the same files tears and rip so much thats its unwatchable! 2125=175mhz cpu vs tilt=400 dual cpu, you would think the tilt would play them flawlessly. Its pretty simple to see that something is wrong. I think having the necessary video drivers to play decent quality video files in today ppc, smartphones, and pda's should be standard, as seems it has been with previous ppc and smartphones that Ive owned. I feel that htc knows about this issue and, i feel confident that they will properly address the issue within the next major rom update! If not, then I will definitely no longer support htc products as i have done with motorola!