HTC Shift will be out in Spain by mid-Feb or early March

[mahjong]

Yesterday (30 rd) Paul Ghent from HTC Europe run a conference in Madrid at the Movistar's MovilForum and by the end of the presentation I asked him directly if the HTC Shift could be used to answer a phone call.

Answer... NO WAY.

Due to the size of the Shift they consider not useful the voice over GSM. Anyway the model that will be available in Spain (mid-Feb) will have GSM/GPRS/UMTS/HSDPA for data. So you need to insert a SIM card on it. But NO VOICE.

They mention that the Shift will be delivered in a special price by Movistar... I assume SIM-locked.

Has no GPS and comes with Vista. The information about Shift running WM5 (or WM6) is not true. Maybe the problem is the stand-by mode the Shift has called SnapVUE which is very similar to the Today screens used by HTC in the Touch series PDAs... but is not WM5 as far as HTC said in the Madrid's meeting.

More info... in spanish I must say at www.todoumpc.com

A video with Paul Ghent speech in english will be uploaded in a few days at www.todoumpc.com including my question about the voice capabilities.

[koala996]

Yesterday (30 rd) Paul Ghent from HTC Europe run a conference in Madrid at the Movistar's MovilForum and by the end of the presentation I asked him directly if the HTC Shift could be used to answer a phone call.

Answer... NO WAY.

Due to the size of the Shift they consider not useful the voice over GSM. Anyway the model that will be available in Spain (mid-Feb) will have GSM/GPRS/UMTS/HSDPA for data. So you need to insert a SIM card on it. But NO VOICE.

They mention that the Shift will be delivered in a special price by Movistar... I assume SIM-locked.

Has no GPS and comes with Vista. The information about Shift running WM5 (or WM6) is not true. Maybe the problem is the stand-by mode the Shift has called SnapVUE which is very similar to the Today screens used by HTC in the Touch series PDAs... but is not WM5 as far as HTC said in the Madrid's meeting.

More info... in spanish I must say at www.todoumpc.com

A video with Paul Ghent speech in english will be uploaded in a few days at www.todoumpc.com including my question about the voice capabilities.

Well .. well .. first .. SnapVue IS running upon WM6.. and the prototypes show how it was possible to install a cab received by mail.

They are so wrong ... with a good headset ... phone capability would have been perfect .. grrrrr. They should have never tried to find reason why phone ability would have been wrong ... ! Someone is using a phone ONLY for SMS and never get of make call ? I don't believe there are more than 1% doing this ....

And no GPS? On the website it is specified as a Stand-Alone GPS... what's wrong with their own information?

....... let's hope we will find a workaround for the voice.. the ALL IN ONE device .. should have been the shift !

Why are they not thinking the right way.... the shift could have been a 3 features device... 3 times better that any other device :
- phone/gsm
- pda/pocket pc
- laptop/desktop

.... all these 3 features for about 1200$ ... beside this the iPhone is just a 600$ remote control ......

[Pfeffa-rah]

Koala is right.
I guess we will just have to wait untill it comes out and see what "the guys" can do about the rom

I´m pretty convinced by now that the shift won´t have anything we like so much about it out of the box...

I´ll have to wait and see. (and, damn it´s hard!)

greetz,

Pfeffa-rah

[koala996]

Koala is right.
I guess we will just have to wait untill it comes out and see what "the guys" can do about the rom

I´m pretty convinced by now that the shift won´t have anything we like so much about it out of the box...

I´ll have to wait and see. (and, damn it´s hard!)

greetz,

Pfeffa-rah

sure it is :/...it's been more than a year that I'm waiting for the shift... and I spent EVERY DAY .. trying to find "news" on it ... grrr... I want to try it again .. guess how it was when I had those 2 shifts just in front of me... playing with one ... it was... SO TERRIBLE !!! nobody can know this feeling before having the time to test one !

[leoni1980]

Well .. well .. first .. SnapVue IS running upon WM6.. and the prototypes show how it was possible to install a cab received by mail.

They are so wrong ... with a good headset ... phone capability would have been perfect .. grrrrr. They should have never tried to find reason why phone ability would have been wrong ... ! Someone is using a phone ONLY for SMS and never get of make call ? I don't believe there are more than 1% doing this ....

And no GPS? On the website it is specified as a Stand-Alone GPS... what's wrong with their own information?

....... let's hope we will find a workaround for the voice.. the ALL IN ONE device .. should have been the shift !

Why are they not thinking the right way.... the shift could have been a 3 features device... 3 times better that any other device :
- phone/gsm
- pda/pocket pc
- laptop/desktop

.... all these 3 features for about 1200$ ... beside this the iPhone is just a 600$ remote control ......

Are you crazy?? The shift has no bearing on the iphone and to compare them is ludicrous. To use the shift as a phone would be fine as a novelty but impractical for the long haul owing to its huge size and very limited battery life. I'm sure the developers will come up with a way of getting voice to work, but if anyone would seriously consider using the shift as their main handset then they clearly either don't leave the house much or don't get many calls.there are many cheap, sim-only data tarifs available which people use with hsdpa umpcs and notebooks and no-one ever complains that these devices cannot receive calls. People's expectations of this device are confused. This is htc's first foray into the full windows umpc market and THAT is what the shift is - a umpc. It was never meant to be anything other than a umpc and is perhaps only presumed so because of the proprietary snapvue application and because htc are known for their pocket pc phones. The fact that some misleading facts were touted initially did not help htc's cause either. Buying a shift will not be the bargain you make out, since you will still need a second handset to get by unless you have a constant connection to the national grid and always have a bag on you.

[mahjong]

Men... I'm telling what Paul Ghent from HTC Europe told... I assumed was the truth. If I and all the attendents were cheated... should I sorry? don't think so. That is what I was told.

[koala996]

Men... I'm telling what Paul Ghent from HTC Europe told... I assumed was the truth. If I and all the attendents were cheated... should I sorry? don't think so. That is what I was told.

I'm really not sure about "no WM6" .. I think that they mean "no FULL WM6" .. but they prefered telling "no WM6" because it's not the WM6 people used to know

I haven't told anything against you, but just wanted to explain things.

about GPS.. it's totally unclear .. because they said "GPS" and now they say "NO GPS".. so it's hard to know the real true about it.

when they say "NO" something ... they mean "there won't be this by default" .. but that doesn't mean that this is not possible to have it . If they have 3G+ .. they will have phone built-in .. but the things is that it should have voice... and voice should be built-in, but disabled by HTC.

[koala996]

Are you crazy?? The shift has no bearing on the iphone and to compare them is ludicrous. To use the shift as a phone would be fine as a novelty but impractical for the long haul owing to its huge size and very limited battery life. I'm sure the developers will come up with a way of getting voice to work, but if anyone would seriously consider using the shift as their main handset then they clearly either don't leave the house much or don't get many calls.there are many cheap, sim-only data tarifs available which people use with hsdpa umpcs and notebooks and no-one ever complains that these devices cannot receive calls. People's expectations of this device are confused. This is htc's first foray into the full windows umpc market and THAT is what the shift is - a umpc. It was never meant to be anything other than a umpc and is perhaps only presumed so because of the proprietary snapvue application and because htc are known for their pocket pc phones. The fact that some misleading facts were touted initially did not help htc's cause either. Buying a shift will not be the bargain you make out, since you will still need a second handset to get by unless you have a constant connection to the national grid and always have a bag on you.

You are like many people thinking that the shift have to be against ears to phone ? You are wrong... with PDA and the Shift you can just use a headset... and keep the Shift in your pocket .. so no matter about the size ! And about battery life you are wrong ... when you shut down Vista you still have SnapVue (WM6) and if you can get a call it will be through WM6.. so it won't be 2hours but about 10 days (see the HTC site for that). It is enough time awake for a phone.


The shift is small enough to put in a "good" pocket ... and yes I will have it all the time with me .. and you DON'T need to have a bag on you all the time.
We are not complaining about HTC, but we are just saying "the shift has 3G+ .. so it is not interesting REMOVING features that are already supported". There is no confused idea about the shift being able to be a phone, the only thing that is confused is "GPS" ... on the site of HTC it is written "Standalone GPS" ... and everywhere now HTC tell that the Shift has NO GPS inside. That's why this feature is confused.

And for the handset ... plz ... stop thinking that we will bring the Shift to our ears ... you don't know anything about headset ?

[koala996]

Are you crazy?? The shift has no bearing on the iphone and to compare them is ludicrous.

there is no comparison between a 600$ iPhone that is not doing anything right (it's not a phone, it's not a pda... it's nothing :/) and the Shift .... that is an UMPC with 3G (oh the iPhone doesn't have 3G ... what a shame !)

what I meant was just : "for 1200$ you have something really good" .. and "for 600$ you have nothing good"

it's just a point of view....

[leoni1980]

yes i've heard of headsets, i had an athena! But with the best will in the world you still have to carry the weight of the device somewhere. Irrespective of whether you have clown's pockets. Anyone who is willing to use a 1200 dollar umpc as a phone at all times strikes me as the type who doesn't get much sex, nor wear appropriate formal attire. The shift is supposedly a business device. Businessmen wear suits. Show me a suit whose pockets will comfortably accommodate a shift and i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.

[koala996]

yes i've heard of headsets, i had an athena! But with the best will in the world you still have to carry the weight of the device somewhere. Irrespective of whether you have clown's pockets. Anyone who is willing to use a 1200 dollar umpc as a phone at all times strikes me as the type who doesn't get much sex, nor wear appropriate formal attire. The shift is supposedly a business device. Businessmen wear suits. Show me a suit whose pockets will comfortably accommodate a shift and i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.

I can't find the exact model .. but it is a Quechua suit.. and here is a link of another suit looking like mine :

http://www.decathlon.be/FR/images/assets/asset_9110492.jpg

You can notice that the two pockets in front are really big ... I used to put so many things in my pocket... I can say that the shift will easily enter the pocket and stay quite there :)

[landshark]

i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.

Heh, that I want to see (or maybe I don't?) <grin> Nice turn of a phrase, Leoni!

[Pawel062]

yes i've heard of headsets, i had an athena! But with the best will in the world you still have to carry the weight of the device somewhere. Irrespective of whether you have clown's pockets. Anyone who is willing to use a 1200 dollar umpc as a phone at all times strikes me as the type who doesn't get much sex, nor wear appropriate formal attire. The shift is supposedly a business device. Businessmen wear suits. Show me a suit whose pockets will comfortably accommodate a shift and i'll show you ten geeks desperately clamouring for convergence at the expense of convenience.

i have to agree. its strange enough having a athena in my pocket. the best solution for shift is in ur backpack, or briefcase and have the style-i for calls if u really want to do that. i have my hermes still for those times i wear a suit and dont have a pocket for my athena.

the shift i dont think would fit in too many of my jeans or pants. the athena is hard enough as is. luckly its almost as thin as a razr since i dont use the keyboard at all so i manange pretty well with it. i just use speaker or bt.

lol love the last sentence. i dont think theres too many suits that fit the athena eather

[eaglesteve]

Gentlemen, please excuse me for coming into the discussion on this old topic:

I got to disagree that there are'nt many suits that can fit Athena. I don't even need a suit. A normal pocket is what I do often. See how Athena is so portable for me in this picture.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361112

I also think it is stretching it to the limit by comparing Athena with Shift in terms of portability. Fact is, Athena's volume is 30.9% of shift's and Athena's weight is 43.75% that of SHIFT's.

To carry a shift is like having THREE Athena in your pocket. There is no way I can carry a shift in my pocket like what I'm doing in the above photos.

But I agree with Leoni that this is not a practical size to have a phone built in. It is travel friendly, but not 'body portable'. A phone must be 'body portable', not just easy to carry around in a bag and to leave in the hotel room. You would want to carry it to the toilet, to lunch, to have a walk, to cycle... I am doing that with Athena now. 24/7 it never leaves my body, and I don't feel any weight or inconveniece for doing it. That's why Athena's size is the most ideal as a MOBILE convergent device, and SHIFT can never take that role, due to its extreme size for mobility. Batttery life, and instant on capabiltiy are the other factors. I don't quite buy the argument that as long as we stay in the snapvue environment we can have 10 days battery life, so it's not an issue. The thing is, why bother lugging this hugh thing around if you're not going to use the full IS? Just to see the weather, check the address book, and update the appointment? If that's the case, this is a poor choice. Surely you want to use the Vista. The only problem is, once you use it for one hour, you have very little left for GPS, Phone, Camera, MP3, and the other things (assume that HTC is silly enough to include these into SHIFT).

UMPC is a difficult product to define, and HTC is obviously having problems here. Make the screen too small, people who expects full OS will be disappointed. Make it too big, you don't have the option of having a practical phone.

For me, it makes more sense to have an Athena, and whenever I need Vista, just use remote desktop to operate your office/home computer. Athena can not do everything one might want to do on a full Vista desktop, but neither can SHIFT. I know because I have had lots of previous expereince using very tiny subnotebooks running full desktop OS.

Just my 2 cents worth.:)

[koala996]

Gentlemen, please excuse me for coming into the discussion on this old topic:

I got to disagree that there are'nt many suits that can fit Athena. I don't even need a suit. A normal pocket is what I do often. See how Athena is so portable for me in this picture.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=361112

I also think it is stretching it to the limit by comparing Athena with Shift in terms of portability. Fact is, Athena's volume is 30.9% of shift's and Athena's weight is 43.75% that of SHIFT's.

To carry a shift is like having THREE Athena in your pocket. There is no way I can carry a shift in my pocket like what I'm doing in the above photos.

But I agree with Leoni that this is not a practical size to have a phone built in. It is travel friendly, but not 'body portable'. A phone must be 'body portable', not just easy to carry around in a bag and to leave in the hotel room. You would want to carry it to the toilet, to lunch, to have a walk, to cycle... I am doing that with Athena now. 24/7 it never leaves my body, and I don't feel any weight or inconveniece for doing it. That's why Athena's size is the most ideal as a MOBILE convergent device, and SHIFT can never take that role, due to its extreme size for mobility. Batttery life, and instant on capabiltiy are the other factors. I don't quite buy the argument that as long as we stay in the snapvue environment we can have 10 days battery life, so it's not an issue. The thing is, why bother lugging this hugh thing around if you're not going to use the full IS? Just to see the weather, check the address book, and update the appointment? If that's the case, this is a poor choice. Surely you want to use the Vista. The only problem is, once you use it for one hour, you have very little left for GPS, Phone, Camera, MP3, and the other things (assume that HTC is silly enough to include these into SHIFT).

UMPC is a difficult product to define, and HTC is obviously having problems here. Make the screen too small, people who expects full OS will be disappointed. Make it too big, you don't have the option of having a practical phone.

For me, it makes more sense to have an Athena, and whenever I need Vista, just use remote desktop to operate your office/home computer. Athena can not do everything one might want to do on a full Vista desktop, but neither can SHIFT. I know because I have had lots of previous expereince using very tiny subnotebooks running full desktop OS.

Just my 2 cents worth.:)

it's a good point of view, but maybe I can explain with a scenario how I will use the HTC SHIFT.

1°) during the night .. the shift is in full WM6 mode (I don't care about SnapVue I know it will be uninstall as soon as I will have the shift) .. in this mode .. nothing will be done (just sleeping)
2°) when waking up .. I can start Windows Vista when dressing up and use it (with WIFI) while taking my breakfast
3°) I can put the shift in sleep mode (not hibernate) if I'm going to move somewhere and put the Shift in my coat (no bag needed)
4°) When being where I wanted to go.. I just have to look for power and put the shift back from sleep ... in that way I will be able to use the shift EVERYWHERE....
5°) Same as 3°) when going back home
6°) I can use it in the same way the shift was when leaving it to sleep mode .. and go on working on the same thing without worrying about finding another computer, using SVN, sending me mails with what I'm working .. etc...
7°) When going to bed, I shut down (not hibernate) or hibernate (if I'm really busy) and stay in SnapVue mode.

I haven't talk about GPS, Camera, Phone .. etc ... those features will just be extras ... and these extras can be seen like that :
"i don't want to put a SIM CARD in the Shift if I don't have phone ability ... why have a sim card if you can't get calls ?"
"i don't want GPS if it is on vista ... but I do want GPS if it is in WM6 because of using it when travelling"
"i don't need a camera if the Shift has no phone built-in, because I will have my HTC TOUCH with 2MP Camera (better than the 1.3MP of the Shift webcam) and I use it as my phone"

So ... maybe we will be able to put Phone and GPS to a FULL WM6 working SHIFT.. but it will just be EXTRAS.

I'm not worrying about travelling with the shift in my coat (I know the size of the shift and I know that my pockets are easily bigger than the shift). The weight of the shift is not so bad .. compare to laptops !
And about the resolution and the screen size ... I have use the shift in 800*480 or 1024*600 (haven't look the resolution used) and the 7" screen is enough to use .. I was really impressed when using it ! But when I will be at home I will plug the Shift to VGA monitor and use the best resolution possible (don't know but maybe better than 1024*600 on an external monitor).

You can say what you want, but the scenario I have writen is NOT possible with Athena and with the Touch .. because simply.. having Windows Vista on really portable computer ... is only for UMPC... and the only UMPC running two O.S. at the same time is the SHIFT... that's why the shift for me is :
The BEST laptop for mobility
The BEST desktop for mobility
The BEST device for productivity (everywhere you go you can work)
The BEST innovation (2 O.S. at the SAME time)

.. here's my feelings

[eaglesteve]

it's a good point of view, but maybe I can explain with a scenario how I will use the HTC SHIFT.

1°) during the night .. the shift is in full WM6 mode (I don't care about SnapVue I know it will be uninstall as soon as I will have the shift) .. in this mode .. nothing will be done (just sleeping)
2°) when waking up .. I can start Windows Vista when dressing up and use it (with WIFI) while taking my breakfast
3°) I can put the shift in sleep mode (not hibernate) if I'm going to move somewhere and put the Shift in my coat (no bag needed)
4°) When being where I wanted to go.. I just have to look for power and put the shift back from sleep ... in that way I will be able to use the shift EVERYWHERE....
5°) Same as 3°) when going back home
6°) I can use it in the same way the shift was when leaving it to sleep mode .. and go on working on the same thing without worrying about finding another computer, using SVN, sending me mails with what I'm working .. etc...
7°) When going to bed, I shut down (not hibernate) or hibernate (if I'm really busy) and stay in SnapVue mode.

I haven't talk about GPS, Camera, Phone .. etc ... those features will just be extras ... and these extras can be seen like that :
"i don't want to put a SIM CARD in the Shift if I don't have phone ability ... why have a sim card if you can't get calls ?"
"i don't want GPS if it is on vista ... but I do want GPS if it is in WM6 because of using it when travelling"
"i don't need a camera if the Shift has no phone built-in, because I will have my HTC TOUCH with 2MP Camera (better than the 1.3MP of the Shift webcam) and I use it as my phone"

So ... maybe we will be able to put Phone and GPS to a FULL WM6 working SHIFT.. but it will just be EXTRAS.

I'm not worrying about travelling with the shift in my coat (I know the size of the shift and I know that my pockets are easily bigger than the shift). The weight of the shift is not so bad .. compare to laptops !
And about the resolution and the screen size ... I have use the shift in 800*480 or 1024*600 (haven't look the resolution used) and the 7" screen is enough to use .. I was really impressed when using it ! But when I will be at home I will plug the Shift to VGA monitor and use the best resolution possible (don't know but maybe better than 1024*600 on an external monitor).

You can say what you want, but the scenario I have writen is NOT possible with Athena and with the Touch .. because simply.. having Windows Vista on really portable computer ... is only for UMPC... and the only UMPC running two O.S. at the same time is the SHIFT... that's why the shift for me is :
The BEST laptop for mobility
The BEST desktop for mobility
The BEST device for productivity (everywhere you go you can work)
The BEST innovation (2 O.S. at the SAME time)

.. here's my feelings

Hi Koala,

HTC would be extremely pleased to see customers like yourself who have such a deep passion for SHIFT. carrying such a big devices all the time with all the associated chargers, always on the lookout for power point.... I personally would like to hear a post review from you after say half a year of use, if it would last that long.

Cheers.;)

[koala996]

Hi Koala,

HTC would be extremely pleased to see customers like yourself who have such a deep passion for SHIFT. carrying such a big devices all the time with all the associated chargers, always on the lookout for power point.... I personally would like to hear a post review from you after say half a year of use, if it would last that long.

Cheers.;)

Hello steve,

I have already had the Shift in my hands, so I know about the weight and I haven't found that it would be a matter .. but when I will have it , I will have better idea about having it all day long on me. There is only one charger needed and I suppose that it is not too big to put in a pocket.. on the pic I have, it is a simple cable .. nothing big (it's like having a phone charger).

I will put a review here as soon as I will have it.. but it won't be that soon .. because it will be for my job as researcher the next year (September 2008).

Koala

[mahjong]

As a matter of fact when I asked Paul Ghent (HTC Europe) about answering phone calls in the Shift I show him my athena in my jacket and he said: "Should be a high quality jacket if you what to keep this (taking the shift in his hand) like that". That is true... Shift is to big to carry with it without any bag or something.

The biggest UMPC I can handle is OQO 2 which is half a centimeter bigger than the Athena.