Let people ask whatever they like!

[j1ngles]

All,

I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.

The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.

I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.

Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.

So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.

[j1ngles]

All,

I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.

The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.

I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.

Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.

So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.

[murf62]

Well said. This is the worst forum I've ever come across for noob bashing. It's a shame because there are a lot of helpful people here.

The odd post I have had to make asking for help took me 30 mins or so of searching just to make sure it's not been covered before, for fear of getting jumped on by the resident 'net police'. :(

[murf62]

By the way, if this subject has come up before, I don't care because I didn't search so there! :)

[VDubGli]

I agree. Isn't a forum supossed to be just that, a place where people can come to ask questions even though there is a wiki, search, etc?

[MACkjam]

All,

I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.

The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.

I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.

Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.

So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.

Well put j1ngles!!! I never had this newbie bashing in the Wizard forum, which I joined almost 2 years ago.

This is the worst forum for n00b bashing this side of the whirlpool galaxy!!!

I agree 110%. If people ask "stupid" questions and someone feels obliged to assist, then by all means do so or shut up.

I have helped n00bs by providing certain cabs etc and then I have been criticised!!!

Good point here - I do believe that one of the mods has actually issued a warning against n00b bashing, so that's a step in the right direction.

[ghostie]

Totally agree with you.

The search function is useful, but if you are new how are you supposed to know the exact techie term to make the search results useful?! Who knows how many budding chefs etc we are turning away becuz someone jumps on their back within 2 minutes giving them a hard time?

We're all here becuz we want to learn, and develop our devices into something different and better, so lets try to support each other and be gentle on the new guys.

[huguete]

All,

I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.

The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.

I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.

Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.

So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.

I fully agree with you j1ngles!!!

[Shadowdh]

You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...

[jimflp]

A good point very well made.

If you don't want to help someone out fine , just don't post a reply. Better that than to ridicule someone and put them off posting again.

[ceevee369]

I have +170 posts and still feel like a noob. if search does not give me the answer i am looking for after 5 attempts (or 30 minutes of crawling through plenty of mails) i do ask help. And i also got replies not being helpfull.

This is not about noob bashing

[ghostie]

You learn, search terms, how to search and even better (and something difficult for me) patience... after all if you are going to spend the money on a serious piece of equipment (even if you get it as part of a deal with a phone company you brick it you will have to pay) you better learn properly how to do whatever it is you want to do... I am about as far from computer savvy as you can get but I have learned what terms to use in a search, how to use the search and even better how to make notes on what I read and where I get up to so I can refer to a thread and pick up where I left off... I too dont have much time (especially lately) but I still take my time and read, search etc before asking the SAME question for the 2359834098345054390843986th time... on the same page...

I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?

We need to teach people to learn by encouragement, not by attitude.

[Confused Stu]

I have done the same as have many people i'm sure. The question is, if someone askes something that you know the answer to (either from working it out, or reading up) do you give them the answer and point out where you got it from, or do you hold back?

I've always favoured giving someone the link, while telling them they could (and should) have searched for it themselves. I also agree with some flaming on obvious or very frequent questions - provided the link is there and the flaming is amusing and light-hearted.

Just my opinion. :)

[sabestian]

I made a similar point a few months back. Another problem is that noobies don't always know what to search for...Because they are noobies...

[ionutz6]

All,

So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.

I couldnt agree more with this. I really dont see why an experienced senior member, for example, has to flame a noobie for asking a silly easy question. Either you have a few words to say and shread some light into matter, or just skip the thread, go read something else. I know some of them are ignorant, but the best treatment is to ignore questions like that. This way they will have to search for themselves, if they get no answer.
But to tell them: read wiki, search, use google is simply too useless, will not help anybody.

[grandpareza]

I understand both sides, but you have to see that once you see a trillion questions asking the same thing, then you get a little frustrated.

I dont think XDA is a service. XDA is a community where people have to do their part, and if you dont do your part, then your not contributing to the community. And yes, searching is contribution. You are gorging yourself in PDA knoweldge and then could help someone else.

However, if you feel that people here at XDA are here to help you becuase this is their job, then your wrong. I'm not saying you, or anyone else does feel this way, but my point is that XDA is not a service, its a community.

I've found the dutty thread to be useless now because of so many questions asking the same thing. There is an onslaught of many questions that were already answered and its hard to find the specific problem your having. I still LOOK, and I still search...and I find the answer.

Though I do agree, being a bitch never did anything for anyone. So the best anyone can do is point them in the right direction until they get it themselves.

[vasil]

If everyone post any question they want to ask without searching, we'll probably end up having 25k pages in every thread. The whole point of searching is to keep forums tidy, so that information can be found faster.
Have you ever tried to find some specific thingsin big DUMP??? (Not a rom dump:))

[axonn]

I agree with the starter of the topic. So you say using search keeps the Forum tidy. I don't agree. The Forum is already full of huge topics and nobody has to have the patience to go through them. HOWEVER, I personally SEARCHED A LOT for some stuff and I usually FOUND what I was looking for. So I admit that it's ok to search! ::- ). But a bit more tolerance for those who don't have this time would be great.

Maybe I just bought a phone and I'm uber-enthusiastic about it and don't want to search 2 days for something. Common, a bit of understanding never killed anybody ::- ). And if there are a lot of topics about a certain problem, they'll show up faster in search, so it's ok. Common, a bit more text never killed a database.

[iain.fraser]

This is a fair point and I would agree - generally speaking a policy of ignore it and move on is best.

However, I have seen instances of people who ought to know better blundering into a thread and asking a question to which they would get an answer if they could just be bothered to look a handful of posts further up.

Not all newcomers are sweet innocents and not all stupid questions are asked by newcomers.

My personal annoyance list is topped by those that ask a tough or poorly defined question and then start stamping their tiny feet if they don't get an answer back within seconds of posting - some people here seem to think this is a formal support forum for 'XDA products', (whatever those might be) and so start bitching about bugs, lack of response, etc.

[NotATreoFan]

Did you ever stop to think that all the people with your point of view are the reason for the search function not being as productive as other sites? When someone doesn't search and just creates another redundant thread, they are directly responsible for polluting the search results.

As I have said before, I will no longer be bashing n00bs who fail to search before posting. Instead, I will transpose their question into Google, and reply back with a link to the search result they need to read. There is one exception to this; people who create 2 or more new threads (within 24 hours) asking the exact same question. That is just rude.

[XtreMe_G]

if you have such a problem about ppl bashing the noob, then you should be helping the noobs themselves, instead of complaining here. There are plenty you can do to help noobies, first of course to directly answer their questions, second help add more articles to the wiki so the noobs are less inclined to ask a question in the first place. your complaining here, is as helpful and the noob bashing threads.

If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

[mchapman007]

View the post from this person (Noob). Looks like he has done some reading and was ready for the bashing to begin...

Quote: "yes I used google and the forum search function but I just wasnt able to find good forum like this."

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=377833

[j1ngles]

ceevee369,

You're missing the point here. There are people on this forum point-blankedly "n00b bashing" because they have sod all productive to add apart from re-iterating what every other smart arse who's been a member here for donkey's years knows already.

It pisses me off when looking at a valid and interesting post (including one that's been raised before) that it's get clogged with crap about how people should read previous threads etc..

If you don't want to read a post because it's been discussed before then move on, we all have choices for christ's sake....

[P1Tater]

Just another pointless thread.:confused:

[richierich]

I totally agree guys!

Now i'm no developer, but i remember being quite green to this forum myself so to see so many new users trying to get to grips with the winmo platform, to me is a good sign that this community is still growing.

Help them i say instead of being unnecessarily rude!

You never know, one of those same n00bs may actually go on to provide something useful someday!

RR

[Mikulec]

Just another pointless thread.:confused:

Man, you are late. I thought you will be the first one to respond to this thread.

[origins81]

Here! Here @ j1ngles. I'm still relatively new to the world of xda but NOT to computers and I have to agree with you. Noticed this from the first post, not even thread I made a couple of months back that there seems to be certain individuals who really have nothing to contribute or do with their free time and roam from thread to thread looking looking to flame noobs. It's funny cos some of the people that were responding didn't even know what a cdma network was but felt it relevant to make their opinion known.

It's people like that that make great forums such as xda bad and noobs afraid/ hesitate to even ask legitimate questions cos of fear of backlash. Heck that's how I ended up creating my signature so I guess something good came out of it anyways;)

[mikechannon]

In short if a new thread is opened on an old subject:

There is never a place for rude and abusive flaming.

A bit of humorous ribbing about searching may be ok if accompanied with an appropriate link and/or guidance.

Having done the above, you can then report the thread and a Mod will close it.

I appreciate this does not reduce the number of duplicate threads, but having closed them they will disappear down the list - AND they will contain an appropriate link to the main thread.

Those enormous threads with 100s of pages are a problem, to which I have no easy answer. They are not easy to clean up as the posts are all related to each other. This is really where the Wiki comes in to summarise the salient established facts. This does mean members have to get involved in keeping the Wiki updated.

Keep in mind that things do quieten down in these very busy Fora as new devices come out. We are at the heights as far as the Kaiser is concerned. It will be the end of the year before it begins to become less active and the more hardened users are left - the "must have the latest device types" will move on.

Mike

[funy]

this is the sad thruth about internet message forums. see it everywhere

mostly inhabited by post count whores who dispise anyone new and instead of helping out flame n00bies because they didnt read through 1000s of posts to find a fix or something which could just put put into 1 line reply and it would be over.

and for the record until the switch to google forum search the search system on the site was utter rubbish and would bring up a million responses to any request and usually then it wasnt of any help. This isnt xda=devs fault its just vbulletin being stupid but glad they have made the switch.

[XtreMe_G]

i see that you think ppl should be allowed to post whatever they like, but DID YOU HAVE TO CREATE TWO POSTS ON THE SAME SUBJECT??? THIS IS EXACTLY THE REASON PPL BASH NOOBIES FOR

like i said in the other thread......you pointless rant is as helpful as the noob bashing threads, as helpful but less amusing.

[paaaaaaaaaa]

I agree wholeheartedly. I see the same type of responses all over the internet in various different forums. I remember a long time ago when I was new to a forum and asked a silly question I was verbally beaten to a pulp, even the moderators joined in (wish I can remember what the question was now). Anyway I never returned to that forum again and urged others not to go there, eventually the forum got a bad name for itself and I do believe it has gone now.

I'm new here myself but generally I find this forum full of great characters, it's one of the finer forums on the net!!

[P1Tater]

ok, now this is just freaking ridiculous. 2 posts in 2 different forums on the same topic.

YOU MY FRIEND ARE AN ABSOLUTE MORON.:mad:

People bash n00b's not for asking questions, but for asking redundant ones and for posting new threads that are redundant as well. LIKE THIS ONE.

I wish someone would develop a program that would allow me to stab someone in the face over the internet, or at least let me remove their fingers to keep them from posting idiotic/redundant threads. You would be the first one I would beta test on.:mad:

[whk]

ceevee369,

You're missing the point here.
If you don't want to read a post because it's been discussed before then move on, we all have choices for christ's sake....

I understand your point - when many messages by new people begin with "Don't flame me but I have a question..." you get the idea that it is dangerous to post in a forum.

One thing that i have noticed in this forum more than any other that I frequent is how many people come here that want to change their phone slightly and are willing to do it and do NOT want to take the time to figure out what forum or what thread even to post in.

For example: a sticky on Kaiser tweak has a "How do I do..." question just posted in it that has nothing to do with Kaiser tweak. The persons seems to have no clue that if you post in an incorrect thread you are less likely to get a good answer than if you posted in a place where people are actually asking those questions.

I do see that even after reading voraciously and trying to search that you almost always have a lingering question - like - does this work on MY phone? Can i just change the radio or do i have to change then ROM as well? kind of thing and RARELY does what you read EXACTLY fit your question.

The other thing is that frequently there are several options in the posts that give directions: for example:
Windows Smart Phone cab: abcdfeg.cab
Windows CE Cab: abddlkj.cab
Special Dutty's Cab: sslkjjew.cab

And for the LIFE of me, I know I have a Tilt but NOWHERE has it EVER told me that it is a Smart Phone or CE etc. . . so I have to make a decision:
1. I am smart enough to figure this out and take a risk with my phone
2. I am not smart enough
a. ok - I can ask a question and get flamed
b. I will put up with the current unwanted behavior
After putting up with it for several days the user eventually comes back and at least gives a timid try at getting it fixed.

Once they realize that the flame is not painful and they can actually do this without their phone exploding or "bricking" they are so ecstatic that they become a "guru" themselves and spread the word about how wonderful this forum is and how helpful everyone is.

Read the AT&T forum for HTC phones - this forum is the hero of all that are there. And us newbies are spreading your gospel. This means even more (perish the thought!) noobies coming over here for a taste of your knowledge! ;)

By the way - I am very greatful for all the help that I have received here personally.
Thanks
Bill

[j1ngles]

So Notatreofan in your world you would only ever have one mail to encompass any issue as not to pollute your search forum.

I only ever post a valid reply and as such this is the first time I have made a post like this maybe to stick up dfor the new guy a little.

What's the point of a forum you may as well just have a wiki for every possible subject.

As for pitater and mikulec, absolutely nothing useful but eh another notch for your post bedpost!

[Guilf]

You're just dead wrong. This isn't a tech support site. This isn't AT&T's support site. This isn't a PPC beginner's site. This is a developer's site.

My Tilt is my first PPC. I came on here with an attitude of respect because so many were providing so many resources and asking for so little in return. I started out with an attitude similar to yours....help whenever possible. As such, I freaking read. I didn't HardSPL or flash a new ROM until I'd had my Tilt for over a month - because I wasn't ready and I didn't expect anyone to spoon feed me. Some of the noobs on here have run into trouble because they want to flash a ROM the second their new unit is charged for the first time. No delayed gratification - feel bad for their significant others...bet they're all premature ejaculators.

I've gone from knowing literally nothing to cooking my own personal ROMs just by searching and reading on this site. I've answered 20 times more questions than I've asked and I've never bashed a noob because I am one. However, even I am sick of seeing that same freaking questions asked constantly. I get that the Tilt has proliferated and people don't know a lot, but show some respect for people that have been here forever - follow the rules, learn the customs. I'm an American, but it's just like an American to expect the locals to fit your customs rather than the other way around. Perhaps we'd have a video driver if all the experts didn't have to spend their days answering the dumbest freaking questions on the face of the earth...What's the difference between the "E" and the "H" in my top bar? What's the best ROM out there? I lost my sound when I flashed the first hour after I got the thing and haven't read a single thread (PLEASE HELP!!). How about reading the manual? How about reading through the titles of one page of threads? Do you think there would be so many ROMs if there was one that was everything to everybody? I get that some of the threads have become unwieldly - but why do you think that is?

I'm a believer that this place should get far more restrictive about who should be able to post. Give every new member a quiz asking the most basic questions that can be found in 5 seconds. If you don't pass, you can't post. Start a newbie area where people like yourself (and me when I feel like it) can spend their time answering questions so the real developers can do work that benefits us all. That won't happen because the long-standing members are too patient and generous for their own goods. We should all be grateful. Part of that gratefulness is showing some respect and being an adult and finding your own answers to your own stupid questions whenever possible.


BTW - As for time. I own and run my own company. I have a live in girlfriend and a very active life. I have made time to figure these things out without losing anything else in my life. If you don't have time to read and learn, you shouldn't be messing with flashing and such. Get an iPhone. Your time is no more important than anyone else's here.

[Carty]

Jingles, you say you want the board to be clean and how many duplicate posts have you made with the same? Ive seen three already..

Sorry, Im not bashing you in any way. Just a suggestion.

Regards,
Carty..

[P1Tater]

nicely said guilf.

as for j1ngles - at least get my freaking name right you double poster of redundant $hit. Two new threads in 2 different forums? YOU ARE A MORON.:mad:

[ceevee369]

Did you ever stop to think that all the people with your point of view are the reason for the search function not being as productive as other sites? When someone doesn't search and just creates another redundant thread, they are directly responsible for polluting the search results.

As I have said before, I will no longer be bashing n00bs who fail to search before posting. Instead, I will transpose their question into Google, and reply back with a link to the search result they need to read. There is one exception to this; people who create 2 or more new threads (within 24 hours) asking the exact same question. That is just rude.

Yes... I did. If I do not find the answer here, I go shopping on other forums. if the answer can not be found there, i come back and I evaluate in which section - thread my Q might be noticed and easy to find for others in the future doing a search.

The "XDA etiquette" is something all newbies learn in time when spending some hours to read. Some sooner than later.Besides, the more this site becomes popular and known, the more you attract lesser experienced people who simply think that this is just another forum and drop a Q without thinking further not being aware that some knights with swinging swords are looking for a target making their day.

Said this, I still got no reply from anyone regarding my Q about the TytnII keyboard fix. I wait, and no, I will not even think of starting another thread polution .Only hoping it will be spotted giving a possible sanswer to many having the same issue. :)

[wizzzard]

I believe in the Carrot and Stick approach.
Dangle the Carrot by providing a usefull link and advice then beat the sh*t out of them with the Stick marked Search.

[Mikulec]

I believe in the Carrot and Stick approach.
Dangle the Carrot by providing a usefull link and advice then beat the sh*t out of them with the Stick marked Search.

a funny one.

[funy]

Jingles, you say you want the board to be clean and how many duplicate posts have you made with the same? Ive seen three already..

Sorry, Im not bashing you in any way. Just a suggestion.

Regards,
Carty..

simple answer to that, the mods could do their job rather than having a powertrip/flamefest.

say in a week or a fortnight you have 2 or 3 similar threads, close and prune the two newest posts or with least detail and simply put at the bottom, this has already been answered or whatever with a link to the post.

[illusion8088]

I understand both sides, but you have to see that once you see a trillion questions asking the same thing, then you get a little frustrated.

I dont think XDA is a service. XDA is a community where people have to do their part, and if you dont do your part, then your not contributing to the community. And yes, searching is contribution. You are gorging yourself in PDA knoweldge and then could help someone else.

However, if you feel that people here at XDA are here to help you becuase this is their job, then your wrong. I'm not saying you, or anyone else does feel this way, but my point is that XDA is not a service, its a community.

I've found the dutty thread to be useless now because of so many questions asking the same thing. There is an onslaught of many questions that were already answered and its hard to find the specific problem your having. I still LOOK, and I still search...and I find the answer.

Though I do agree, being a bitch never did anything for anyone. So the best anyone can do is point them in the right direction until they get it themselves.

Agree totally.
I think bashing should be discouraged. My attitude is; if I see a question that has been asking gazillion times, I simply choose to ignore that post rather than bashing the individual. If we all adopt this attitude, the individual will be forced to search and find the solution him/herself. Well said grandpareza, xda is NOT a service, if you're asking the same questions multiple times, you're contributing to useless threads/post, and making future searches even more frustrating. For the "bashers", you're also contributing to useless posts/threads.

[kjb86]

I just say look at the damn wiki &/or Sticky's

They have them for a reason - any first time new visitor can find HUGE amounts of useful information.

It's got all the basic information in it from what the device is and what you can do to it.

[Guilf]

simple answer to that, the mods could do their job rather than having a powertrip/flamefest.

say in a week or a fortnight you have 2 or 3 similar threads, close and prune the two newest posts or with least detail and simply put at the bottom, this has already been answered or whatever with a link to the post.

Sorry - simpler answer to that...dumdums don't post the same thing multiple times. Perhaps the mods would have time to prune the threads or combine all the duplicate threads if they didn't have to patrol for people posting the exact same crap in multiple locations within seconds. That should NEVER happen except for something (free software, major brand new release, etc.) that is of interest to everyone in the forum.

J1ngles - you don't have the time or inclination to read, but you seem to have a bunch of spare time on your hands this morning to post.

[kyphur]

I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.

As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.

Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.

When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.

Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.

The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.

As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.

Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.

XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.

Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.

You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.

[P1Tater]

Very well put Kyphur. It gets very aggravating.

[illusion8088]

All,

I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.

The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.

I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.

Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.

So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.

This is just annoying. Why did you start 2 virtually identical threads; this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=377815
This is an abuse of the system and this type of behavior should be highly discouraged. And you wonder why people don't search? Because people like you have polluted this great forum with useless threads making it difficult to find useful information.
If you don't have time to read and search, don't expect anybody to have time to solving your problems.
I absolutely do not agree with bashing people posting questions, but to say you're too busy to read and search is just plain insulting to the people who are supposed to be providing you with answers. And starting 2 similar threads just to say the same thing is plain shameful.

Edit;
I noticed his duplicate post have been combined into 1 by the mods, thank goodness, so my link to his other post may bring you back to the same place.

[illusion8088]

All,

I've been a member of this forum for a few months now and am sincerely grateful for all the useful advice and help I have received. My own posting count is relatively low because I only try to help if I have something useful to say.

The one overriding post I tend to see these days is the idiot who likes bash the other users for not reading threads, doing searches etc. Now I actually have a full time job in the I.T industry, am pretty much computer savvy and enjoy tinkering with my phone when time allows. It seems to me some of the members here have far much too time on their hands and spend it endlessly trawling to give someone a mauling.

I wonder how many useful posts these people ever actually put in to the forum.

Now I agree that if you have the time to read all the relevant threads, do the searches etc you have a good chance of finding an answer. But there comes a time when some of these posts are just not feasible anymore. Dutty's rom post for 6.1 is a major epic these days and I for one don't have the time or inclination to scroll through all this especially when a whole load of it is just crap from people increasing their post count.

So my point is let people ask, especially the n00bs who probably don't realise the lambasting they're going to get. If you know the answer then reply, if you don't then shut up. That way the posts will get shorter and the idiots will get bored quicker.

This is just annoying. Why did you start 2 virtually identical threads; this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=377814
This is an abuse of the system and this type of behavior should be highly discouraged. And you wonder why people don't search? Because people like you have polluted this great forum with useless threads making it difficult to find useful information.
If you don't have time to read and search, don't expect anybody to have time to solving your problems.
I absolutely do not agree with bashing people posting questions, but to say you're too busy to read and search is just plain insulting to the people who are supposed to be providing you with answers. And starting 2 similar threads just to say the same thing is plain shameful.

Edit;
I noticed his duplicate post have been combined into 1 by the mods, thank goodness, so my link to his other post may bring you back to the same place.

[netzcoyote]

j1ngles makes a good point.
So does sebastian in post #2.

Folks, while a internet forum is anonymous, I recommend being as polite as if you were talking to a bunch of people on a face to face basis.
My guess is everyone would be a lot more patient before saying "use the fucking search function, noob" to someones face.

On the same note, j1ngles, if you start a thread calling those folks "idiots" and questioning their ratio of useful posts, how serious do you think they will take your opinion, be it valid or not?!

Also, while j1ngles' double posting this topic (and I didn't check) is a very bad habit, it is NOT the topic of this thread, and any comments would have been better made in a PM to j1ngles.
How is a newbie supposed to find any information, never mind the search engine, if people keep changing the subject of a thread?!

Be nicer, it's fun!
Cheers,
nc

[NotATreoFan]

So Notatreofan in your world you would only ever have one mail to encompass any issue as not to pollute your search forum.

What? Please use punctuation and proper grammar.

...Said this, I still got no reply from anyone regarding my Q about the TytnII keyboard fix. I wait, and no, I will not even think of starting another thread polution .Only hoping it will be spotted giving a possible sanswer to many having the same issue. :)

I applaud your patience. Even I would have been bumping it at least every 48 hours...

I believe in the Carrot and Stick approach.
Dangle the Carrot by providing a usefull link and advice then beat the sh*t out of them with the Stick marked Search.

:D ...nuff said

[ChumleyEX]

Straight up, you can tell if someone has spent the time to learn something on this forum. I think it's disrespectful to all of us that read the threads to learn and especially to those of you that certainly take a great deal of time creating some of the best documentation I have seen in a forum. For instance, there is a guy that has written a bible regarding Midlets, I don't know what they are but if I needed to that is the first place I would go. I doubt that after reading that, that I would have any questions afterwards.

Now I do understand that this site has SOOOOOO MUCH content. I'm sure XDA is the same size the internet was back in 1993. So when someone posts something and they break off some of the knowledge they gained by the horrible search grind, then yeah there is nothing wrong with that and they should not fear the flame. But if you create a topic and directly above it the answer to your topic has been stickied, then yeah something should be said. I don't think anyone has been treated that bad, I have been on forums that can be really rough.

For those of you that double post topics, well thats just not cool now is it. Not everyone knows the answer to your question on the time frame your hoping for. I have posted some topics and never got a reply, I didn't just post another one within 24hrs. We aren't your B@#$@#s that have to do things for you at the snap of your finger. Have patience.

I do agree there should be some respect givin to all and I am certainly to blame for some of the heat around here. Everyone needs to respect the content on this site and everyone needs to respect each other. I have a hard time personally, respecting those that don't respect the content. This is my flaw and I am working on it. Thank you for your patience.

Lastly, I am here to learn and amuse myself during the day. I love to help BUT I don't like baby sitting people that won't help themselves. Don't expect me to do everything for you, but you can expect me to kick down knowledge and help when I see that you are here to learn.

I hope I don't seem to harsh.


___ What I'm a senior member? Do I get the AARP Discount our something?

[marriotheblackguy]

I'm not bashing just wondering what this post has to do with "Development and Hacking"? Isn't this available in "GENERAL DISCUSSIONS"?:confused:

[kyphur]

I'm not bashing just wondering what this post has to do with "Development and Hacking"? Isn't this available in "GENERAL DISCUSSIONS"?:confused:

I has been moved.

[kyphur]

J1ngles,

I find it ironic that you created this thread. You are the definition of a serial threader. When I first looked at "Threads created by j1ngles" I found 25 with only 2 (duplicate threads I combined into this one) being original or new and the rest being redundant as they asked questions asked & answered time and again in the forums.

Well I've done you a favor and cleaned-up your threads (http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=619630&starteronly=1).

Notes:

"Let people ask whatever they like!" is 2 duplicate threads combined into one and moved to the appropriate section.

"Schap's 4.31" is closed because it never should have been a new thread, you should have asked in the thread about that Rom.

"The all encompassing 'Help J1ngles with his Kaiser' Thread" is infact 17 unique (and redundant) threads none of which asks a question which justifies a new thread.

"Dutty's ROM enquiry" is closed because it never should have been a new thread, you should have asked in the thread about that Rom.

"Slide 2 Unlock" is 2 duplicate threads, neither of which should have been created as there are already threads about this product.

"Hard_SPL" never should have been created as there are already threads about this product.

Please read my earlier post (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45)in this thread about what XDA-Devs is and isn't, apparently you don't understand the point of this forum.

Maybe if you showed a little more respect for the forum and the other users here you would get more out of the forum.

[P1Tater]

J1ngles,

I find it ironic that you created this thread. You are the definition of a serial threader. When I first looked at "Threads created by j1ngles" I found 25 with only 2 (duplicate threads I combined into this one) being original or new and the rest being redundant as they asked questions asked & answered time and again in the forums.

Well I've done you a favor and cleaned-up your threads (http://forum.xda-developers.com/search.php?do=finduser&u=619630&starteronly=1).

Notes:

"Let people ask whatever they like!" is 2 duplicate threads combined into one and moved to the appropriate section.

"Schap's 4.31" is closed because it never should have been a new thread, you should have asked in the thread about that Rom.

"The all encompassing 'Help J1ngles with his Kaiser' Thread" is infact 17 unique (and redundant) threads none of which asks a question which justifies a new thread.

"Dutty's ROM enquiry" is closed because it never should have been a new thread, you should have asked in the thread about that Rom.

"Slide 2 Unlock" is 2 duplicate threads, neither of which should have been created as there are already threads about this product.

"Hard_SPL" never should have been created as there are already threads about this product.

Please read my earlier post (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45)in this thread about what XDA-Devs is and isn't, apparently you don't understand the point of this forum.

Maybe if you showed a little more respect for the forum and the other users here you would get more out of the forum.

Now that is hilarious. Someone, I ain't saying who, but his name starts with j1ngles, has just been exposed. The reason this thread and its identical twin were created was that you got bashed more than once for not learning how to search and then posting redundant threads. Well, my initial dignosis was right I believe.

YOU ARE A MORON.

[ChumleyEX]

Damn it P1Tater, I'm not sure if it's your avatar or your posts, but everytime I see both I just get a good chuckle.




Oh and props to kypher.

[XtreMe_G]

ok, i take back what i said earlier, this thread is getting more interesting.

lets see.......78 posts and 25 are new threads. i dont even have that much!! i havent checked but i bet P1Tater doesnt have that much himself too

[P1Tater]

ok, i take back what i said earlier, this thread is getting more interesting.

lets see.......78 posts and 25 are new threads. i dont even have that much!! i havent checked but i bet P1Tater doesnt have that much himself too

I think I have started 3 maybe 4 threads at the most.

[suk72]

TBH I havent seen too much bashing here.
This is probably the most civil board i have registered on in a long time.
But i dont post too often so i dont know if im qualified to say that. :p

[kyphur]

I think I have started 3 maybe 4 threads at the most.

Gotcha, you've started 6 threads! Guess I'll have to keep my eye on you!


And for the record, as a member since December of 2005 & a moderator for over a year now I have a grand total of 29 Threads created. This is with what am i pushing almost 1,700 posts!

So you see a Noob with 25 threads and 78 posts doesn't look like someone who is properly utilizing the forum.

[j1ngles]

Well looks like I've took some stick here, so rather than f and blind like some people I will say this.

It was a valid mistake the double post. It wasn't my intention and for that I apologize.

As for the fact that it has appeared in a couple of forums, I personally believe that this occurs in all forums and not everybody will use those forums, but if the end result is people treat others a little better then to me that is a result.

I did not say that I had exhaustively searched every post myself before asking a question but some of these replies are from guys just blowing each other.

I'm not going to lower myself by naming and shaming some of these posters but they know who they are. I don't give a toss about you trying to flame me because there are enough people who have replied positively to vindicate this post so if something productive can be done either by education or more positive comments then it won't have gone to waste.

[P1Tater]

Gotcha, you've started 6 threads! Guess I'll have to keep my eye on you!


And for the record, as a member since December of 2005 & a moderator for over a year now I have a grand total of 29 Threads created. This is with what am i pushing almost 1,700 posts!

So you see a Noob with 25 threads and 78 posts doesn't look like someone who is properly utilizing the forum.

Shit, for real? Damn, I didn't know I had that many. My bad.

[kyphur]

Forum members, report redundent & unnecessary threads.

Don't go on a spree bashing the OP.

The thread will automagically be closed and then disappear was it rapidly stales with no new replies.

NooBs, you are welcome here but understand that this is a "DEVELOPMENT FORUM" and as such you are expected to do a little work for your "Kewl bit of Kit". If you post a new thread 5 seconds after signing-up and it is closed within minutes don't post 10 more threads asking the same question or you will be labeled as a Serial Threader (which is a bannable offense).

All of the experienced members here will give you a "Hand Up" but rarely will you get a "Hand-Out" without gettting a good lashing from that same hand.

I think all that can be said here has been said so this thread will be closed.