Ram availability and Wm 6.1

[bartybet]

So I am seeing all these wm 6.1 with very low amounts or ram in them. Is low ram the norm with 6.1? How do people get their ppc's to run properly with only 20 mb's of ram to start?

[zim2dive]

So I am seeing all these wm 6.1 with very low amounts or ram in them. Is low ram the norm with 6.1? How do people get their ppc's to run properly with only 20 mb's of ram to start?

I'll follow with a really ignorant question.. is there any way to shift the memory to program RAM vs storage? ie. I've got a 6G SDHC card.. I don't care about "bigstorage".. I'd rather see "bigRAM" builds.. but since I've never seen a single one, I'm guessing that isn't possible.. I suppose the flash ROM wouldn't have the write cycles to act as a RAM...

[bartybet]

is there any way to shift the memory to program RAM vs storage? ...


Not that i know of past 2003 ppc's. But i find it odd that the cooked 6.0 roms all have close to 30 mb's of storage and these new ones cant crack 22 mb's. Odd.

[zim2dive]

Not that i know of past 2003 ppc's. But i find it odd that the cooked 6.0 roms all have close to 30 mb's of storage and these new ones cant crack 22 mb's. Odd.

I thought I remembered such a function from my X50v days..

[pvs]

For an in-depth discussion on this topic, you can start out with this thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286313). Don't be afraid to click on the links within for a very complete understanding of why Program Memory and Storage Space cannot be resized (unfortunately).

-pvs

[JamesAllen]

I really don't understand at all the drive for larger and larger storage. So what if you have 58MB of "Big Storage" on the device. With SDHC cards growing ever larger at lower costs, the issue, it seems to me, is not device storage as much as Free Program Memory.

I have looked with interest at the new 6.1 ROMs until I search through the posts and find that, at startup, the more desirable ones (with the features I would like), have Free Program Memory in the very low 20MB range. Just load PIE and another memory hog like an audio player and watch your memory drop to less than 4MB and your PIE freeze.

Sorry, I am running a 6.0 ROM with everything I like on it and have about 24MB at startup. I use FreeUp RAM a couple times a day to recover Program Memory and everything is fine. I don't like running this lean and am considering upgrading to a Tytn II (AT&T 8925) with roughly double the memory of the Hermes so I don't have to worry about memory any longer. For me, the 6.1 ROMS with anything worth running and the current memory on the Hermes just doesn't make it. And I love the 8525.

[McTell]

I don't care about "bigstorage".. I'd rather see "bigRAM" builds..

You are damn right!! Thats my opinion too!

I really don't understand at all the drive for larger and larger storage. [...] With SDHC cards growing ever larger at lower costs, the issue, it seems to me, is not device storage as much as Free Program Memory.

[...] Just load PIE and another memory hog like an audio player and watch your memory drop to less than 4MB and your PIE freeze.

Sorry, I am running a 6.0 ROM with everything I like on it and have about 24MB at startup. I use FreeUp RAM [SkTools!] [...] to recover Program Memory and everything is fine.

I've the same setting like you, I am running a clean WM6 with my costum apps and I am also about 25 mb Ram (only with Sk Tools Ram tuning).

So, our future cooking motto is: " We Love SuperBigRam-Builds "

;)

[Pumpiron579]

This might help you guys out,
http://www.freewareppc.com/utilities/upx4ppc.shtml

"Absolutely essential program for PPCs with limited space (my 64MB model has only a 20MB ramdisk). I have been able to install twice as many programs thanks to UPX4PPC. Tips: (1) Make sure you untick "compress icons" (ticked by default). (2) Use maximum compression: it doesn't take long and occasionally makes a significant difference. (3) Compressing TCPMP: if you rename all the .plg files to .dll you can upx them (then rename them back!) I reduced the install from 1600KB to 923KB this way!"

[CRCinAU]

This might help you guys out,
http://www.freewareppc.com/utilities/upx4ppc.shtml

"Absolutely essential program for PPCs with limited space (my 64MB model has only a 20MB ramdisk). I have been able to install twice as many programs thanks to UPX4PPC. Tips: (1) Make sure you untick "compress icons" (ticked by default). (2) Use maximum compression: it doesn't take long and occasionally makes a significant difference. (3) Compressing TCPMP: if you rename all the .plg files to .dll you can upx them (then rename them back!) I reduced the install from 1600KB to 923KB this way!"

Keep in mind that if you do this, the DLL files etc cannot be loaded in shared memory - so your applications have to load their own instance of compressed DLLs. This can make things VERY RAM hungry on your devices...

[Mrjasjam]

I run Pays 6.1 rom and i get about 25 megs at start up with Activesync connected to my exchange server.

I notice some roms have a total program memory of 50 megs and some only 48 megs. Does this mean that the rom can be tweaked to get more than 50 megs of Program memory?

[zim2dive]

This might help you guys out,
http://www.freewareppc.com/utilities/upx4ppc.shtml

"Absolutely essential program for PPCs with limited space (my 64MB model has only a 20MB ramdisk). I have been able to install twice as many programs thanks to UPX4PPC. Tips: (1) Make sure you untick "compress icons" (ticked by default). (2) Use maximum compression: it doesn't take long and occasionally makes a significant difference. (3) Compressing TCPMP: if you rename all the .plg files to .dll you can upx them (then rename them back!) I reduced the install from 1600KB to 923KB this way!"

Does this save Program RAM? Or Storage space?

[zim2dive]

For an in-depth discussion on this topic, you can start out with this thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286313). Don't be afraid to click on the links within for a very complete understanding of why Program Memory and Storage Space cannot be resized (unfortunately).

-pvs


Thanks. Informative, tho not the answers I was hoping to hear :)

[JamesAllen]

I understand the preoccupation with maximizing Storage Memory. It is the only memory that apparently can be manipulated. But, the exercise seems rather academic to me with the advent of SDHC cards. It isn't storage memory that has ever been a problem for me, it is Program Memory. And Program Memory cannot be expanded (my understanding) so the only solution is to execute fewer or smaller programs if you want to maximize free Program Memory.

Unless we can get someone to develop a "virtual memory" feature that uses an allocated portion of SDHC memory as Program Memory, the only way we can maximize free program memory is by loading fewer applications, normally through a clean and lean ROM. If it could be accomplished, it would still pose speed issues in that the pipe to the SDHC card has to be far slower than the internal memory pipeline.

My 2 cents worth.

[bartybet]

I really don't understand at all the drive for larger and larger storage. So what if you have 58MB of "Big Storage" on the device. With SDHC cards growing ever larger at lower costs, the issue, it seems to me, is not device storage as much as Free Program Memory.

.

Don't understand it either. Do the base 6.1 roms come with that little ram built in? Maybe that's why there isnt an official version released yet. They cant get it to run more then 3 things at a time.

[Pumpiron579]

The only other answer is Get a kaiser:)
Kaiser is powered by an Samsung SC32442 400Mhz processor, 256MB ROM and 128MB RAM

[sebastianmc]

friends,,, set file cache (pagepool) to auto mode, zero! when I used schaps wm6 4.31 my hermes had 32mb of free program (ram)..
:)

[mmick]

friends,,, set file cache (pagepool) to auto mode, zero! when I used schaps wm6 4.31 my hermes had 32mb of free program (ram)..
:)

Yeah but slow as hell! Pagepool is made exactly to speed up the PDA by caching some data.

The problem is:
- 26-30Mb of RAM are far from enough for a web browser with flash content
- SD card bus is so slow on latency that can hardly be used as a virtual memory for active programs
- No pagepool or no cache is not an option

Perhaps someone could build ASAP an application that would transfer non-active drivers/apps or less demanding apps to a virtual RAM on the SD and keep the active ones (HTC Home, phone app, Web browsers/games) on the real RAM

One of the best apps for a mobile is OXIO stuff that will free RAM but perhaps the best option is an app that *in case of very low memory* would free non-used ram and would compress the demanding app data on RAM (usually I only run out of memory if I surf on the web with opera or netfront). Of course it would slow down a bit the PDA at that point but at least the app wouldn´t stop and would run until nothing could be really done.

Does anyone knows an app that does this on-the-fly? (auto-free and compress RAM)

[sebastianmc]

mmick, I dont realize difference between with 4mb ppoll or without ppool.. I made benchs with and without ppool.. and to me, it doesnt make difference in performance... and sometimes I use msn, i.e, e mail, coreplayer. word... without pagepool or file cache, and my device is fast!! I dont believe pagepool.. lol

sorry for my english :)
regards

[pvs]

mmick, I dont realize difference between with 4mb ppoll or without ppool.. I made benchs with and without ppool.. and to me, it doesnt make difference in performance... and sometimes I use msn, i.e, e mail, coreplayer. word... without pagepool or file cache, and my device is fast!! I dont believe pagepool.. lol

sorry for my english :)
regardsCurious ... did you ever test a ROM with a 6 or 8MB PP? That is where the difference is supposed to be notable.

I've toyed with these settings. These ROMs seemed faster at first, but I'm not so sure if there's a significant difference in the long run. As these were my own home-cooked ROMs I was experimenting with, I never kept them for any length of time.

I'd like to know your experiences with large PagePools, rather than the 4MB default.

Thanks!
-pvs

[Mrjasjam]

The only other answer is Get a kaiser:)
Kaiser is powered by an Samsung SC32442 400Mhz processor, 256MB ROM and 128MB RAM

I tried the Kaiser and found it slower than the Hermes even though it had more memory. The thing was laggy. They need to put more powerful processors into these things.

[Mrjasjam]

One more thing id like to add and that is although the 6.1 roms appear to take a little more memory they seem to run better at lower memory than 6.0 roms. Just something that i have noticed.
Does anyone else tend to agree?

Cheers.

[st3v3]

One more thing id like to add and that is although the 6.1 roms appear to take a little more memory they seem to run better at lower memory than 6.0 roms. Just something that i have noticed.
Does anyone else tend to agree?

Cheers.

Errm no?

The current 6.1 rom im running is basically the same as the telstra/imate wm6 rom as far as the memory goes. The few advantages with the 6.1 im running is i can turn some of the animation off so that the UI is more responsive.

Really like the SMS threading in 6.1.

[hekermeker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpiron579
The only other answer is Get a kaiser
Kaiser is powered by an Samsung SC32442 400Mhz processor, 256MB ROM and 128MB RAM
I tried the Kaiser and found it slower than the Hermes even though it had more memory. The thing was laggy. They need to put more powerful processors into these things.
__________________
Imate Jasjam
Radio 1.54.30.10
Pays Rom 3.05

128 Ram is bigger but slower.It is not the processor's fault.

[SDWolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpiron579
The only other answer is Get a kaiser
Kaiser is powered by an Samsung SC32442 400Mhz processor, 256MB ROM and 128MB RAM
I tried the Kaiser and found it slower than the Hermes even though it had more memory. The thing was laggy. They need to put more powerful processors into these things.
__________________
Imate Jasjam
Radio 1.54.30.10
Pays Rom 3.05

128 Ram is bigger but slower.It is not the processor's fault.

The problem with the Kaiser isn't the ram or the processor, it's a problem with hardware acceleration, or the complete lack thereof because they didn't bother to write drivers to take advantage of it. There's a huge thread in the Kaiser section of the forum about this issue.

Back on-topic, I have 24MB free on startup using Schap's 4.31, with most cache settings set to the minimum (though not disabled). I haven't noticed a performance hit when compared to the defaults, and having the extra RAM helps a bit.

[st3v3]

yeah dont get me wrong i miss my special edition magician and its 256 memory.

Although you only get a 4 hour battery at best!