Video acceleration news?

[Foetus]

Every once in awhile, some chatter will be thrown around about possible HTC fixes (http://www.phonenews.com/htc-says-update-still-coming-nothing-else-3369/) and/or gutted ROMs (http://htcclassaction.org/#update_20080403_2).

So... does anyone have *any* information about the HTC video acceleration problems?

[dcd1182]

i think at this point its realistic to say that if you want video acceleration, you need to buy another $500 device made by somebody else. I predict HTC puts this off until affected hardware is end-of-life. My rant is off topic now, but in that case, my next device wont be HTC.

[azclown]

Ummm, so how am I going to watch my pron..... lol

[Keystone]

So... does anyone have *any* information about the HTC video acceleration problems?Beyond the *problem* of not using the MS Media Player and substituting video playback with TCPMP (or another) set with the the video driver to GDI/RAW, what is the great issue? Even with direct draw drivers, I will still use TCPMP and its video playback is already exceptionally smooth as it is.

Screen redraw on the Today screen and other similar levels isn't out of line from what I've experienced on non-HTC WM/CE devices.

Sorry, but I'm still stumped on what is truly owed to us by HTC and -- more on topic for this forum -- the critical flaws that are inherent in the Titan.

[djlenoir]

Hopefully, they include support in the Raphael/Diamond. Who knows, maybe it can even be back-ported to our Moguls.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=387556

Supposedly, there will be a forthcoming update that will at least improve the video on our phones, but likely not drivers.

http://www.phonenews.com/htc-says-update-still-coming-nothing-else-3369/

[Foetus]

Beyond the *problem* of not using the MS Media Player and substituting video playback with TCPMP (or another) set with the the video driver to GDI/RAW, what is the great issue? Even with direct draw drivers, I will still use TCPMP and its video playback is already exceptionally smooth as it is.

Screen redraw on the Today screen and other similar levels isn't out of line from what I've experienced on non-HTC WM/CE devices.

Sorry, but I'm still stumped on what is truly owed to us by HTC and -- more on topic for this forum -- the critical flaws that are inherent in the Titan.

Go into the "Programs" folder, and scroll up and down a bit... The same thing happens with any "redrawing" of the screen which makes certain programs just run crappy. My *main* complaint that *actually* gets in my way, though, is the delay in rotating the screen. I typically don't use the hardware keyboard for exactly this reason. I would rather use the stylus and the on-screen keyboard than wait for 5-10 seconds while I wait for the screen to redraw.

It's more to the point to say that it underperforms (again... scroll up and down on that program screen) in comparison to *older* devices. There are some Youtube examples out there that are easy to see. It's just not the performance that matches the pricetag.

[bakntyme]

Go into the "Programs" folder, and scroll up and down a bit... The same thing happens with any "redrawing" of the screen which makes certain programs just run crappy. My *main* complaint that *actually* gets in my way, though, is the delay in rotating the screen. I typically don't use the hardware keyboard for exactly this reason. I would rather use the stylus and the on-screen keyboard than wait for 5-10 seconds while I wait for the screen to redraw.

It's more to the point to say that it underperforms (again... scroll up and down on that program screen) in comparison to *older* devices. There are some Youtube examples out there that are easy to see. It's just not the performance that matches the pricetag.I don't know what you have done to your Mogul, but mine switches from landscape to portrait (or vice versa) faster than I could press a stopwatch button twice. The scrolling in File Explorer, dragging the stylus down the scroll bar, is instantaneous. I am running the stock Sprint 3.35 package. The only time I see terribly slow response is when the Mogul is connected to my PC and syncing...then it is glacial. But I do not usually use it when it is syncing so that has not been a problem.

[Foetus]

I don't know what you have done to your Mogul, but mine switches from landscape to portrait (or vice versa) faster than I could press a stopwatch button twice. The scrolling in File Explorer, dragging the stylus down the scroll bar, is instantaneous. I am running the stock Sprint 3.35 package. The only time I see terribly slow response is when the Mogul is connected to my PC and syncing...then it is glacial. But I do not usually use it when it is syncing so that has not been a problem.

I hate to repeat myself, but go click "Start" and then "Programs"... scroll up AND down as fast as you can... it is anything but smooth scrolling... as far as switching from landscape to portrait faster than you can press a stopwatch button twice, I can only assume you are trying to use your feet. I have used the stock ROM, the kitchen, and DCDs custom ROM... it's slow. I count roughly 2-3 seconds. Granted, it may not seem like a "long" time in the grand scheme of things... for a phone, it's an eternity, and ultimately... it's not as fast as phones that are 3 years old. I'm ecstatic for you that you are happy with the performance of your phone. Why would you even bother to *read* this message thread if that's the case?

Additionally... in File Explorer... don't try scrolling down slowly... try up *and* down quickly. If you can *see* the screen refresh, then it's too damned slow. It's supposed to SCROLL... not BLINK.

[maccaberry]

I don't know what you have done to your Mogul, but mine switches from landscape to portrait (or vice versa) faster than I could press a stopwatch button twice. The scrolling in File Explorer, dragging the stylus down the scroll bar, is instantaneous. I am running the stock Sprint 3.35 package. The only time I see terribly slow response is when the Mogul is connected to my PC and syncing...then it is glacial. But I do not usually use it when it is syncing so that has not been a problem.

Backntyme,
I agree about the keyboard thing. When I switch to landscape and back it normally takes about 1-2 seconds. But sometimes much longer and it is quite annoying.
But for the scrolling thing, Foetus was talking about start>programs. You go there and scroll the page up icons up and down quickly. You will see the delayed screen refresh. Another one is when you use iGuidance or TomTom. The screen refresh is terrible and you get really jerky animation of turns etc. I haven't noticed especially bad scrolling in file explorer because the rendering is simple. But rendering of graphics is not great. But liveable.
But what the thread is upset about is not whether its liveable or not. It's about whether an expensive piece of equipment should be worse in some respects than its predecessor. And whether we are getting value for money. The device's hardware is capable of better performance, but HTC have chosen to supply a substandard set of software to go with it.

[maccaberry]

Foetus, sorry for answering for you. I thought you were offline. But you beat me to the punch anyway..:p

This is way off topic, but you know what really pisses me off about the titan performance? The fact that you have to turn sounds off the dialpad or it can't even keep up with your dialing of a number. My ten year old nokia (that i still have) sh*ts all over the titan for speed. Granted it cant do everything that the titan can do, but at least it does what it was advertised to do - and do it properly.

[bakntyme]

I hate to repeat myself, but go click "Start" and then "Programs"... scroll up AND down as fast as you can... it is anything but smooth scrolling... as far as switching from landscape to portrait faster than you can press a stopwatch button twice, I can only assume you are trying to use your feet. I have used the stock ROM, the kitchen, and DCDs custom ROM... it's slow. I count roughly 2-3 seconds. Granted, it may not seem like a "long" time in the grand scheme of things... for a phone, it's an eternity, and ultimately... it's not as fast as phones that are 3 years old. I'm ecstatic for you that you are happy with the performance of your phone. Why would you even bother to *read* this message thread if that's the case?

Additionally... in File Explorer... don't try scrolling down slowly... try up *and* down quickly. If you can *see* the screen refresh, then it's too damned slow. It's supposed to SCROLL... not BLINK.First, I didn't realize that we were supposed to PM you for permission to *read* threads on this forum and that you would only permit users who agree with you to read those threads. Nor does the thread title "Video acceleration news?" imply that it is going to be really just another gripe thread. Second, when you said "Go into the "Programs" folder, and scroll up and down a bit" that is not the same thing as "I hate to repeat myself, but go click "Start" and then "Programs"; however, in that screen, either scrolling or paging up and down, my Mogul also draws the icons almost instantaneously. That means in a fraction of a second. The switch between portrait and landscape is also accomplished in a fraction of a second. Scrolling in File Explorer works as it should with no blinking.

If I were in your position, instead of assuming that someone who posts different experiences than yours must be a fool who cannot tell how much time elapses during screen redraws and then telling them that they should not be reading "your" thread, I would question why my own device could not do what other similar devices can do.

I am not saying that the device is perfect; for example, sometimes when activating the Task Manager icon at the top right of the Today screen, it takes a second or two to show the running programs. But I do not believe that is a screen response problem.

maccaberry: I also use iGuidance 3.0.1, and the screen response works properly either with an external Bluetooth GPS receiver, or with the internal GPS receiver and the intermediate port workarounds. That workaround requirement is more a limitation of iGuidance than of the Mogul.

edit: maccaberry, you say that HTC has supplied substandard software. But at least some of your experiences are with a bootloader, ROM, and radio that were either not supplied by HTC for your device, or not supplied for use on your carrier, or not supplied to be used together, or have been modified from the software as it was supplied by HTC. I am running the stock Sprint 3.35 package with all of the customizations as supplied by HTC. Maybe that has some effect?

[Hammerfest]

@bakntyme

Sorry im going to have to agree with everyone else over you... (not just this thread mind you but a simple search and you should see what i mean) but please feel free to either use MyMobiler and record a video of your superb performance.... honistly... or find some other app to record... even using the most slimmed down ROM to the Stock i still get what he is describing.... and worse... i have changed things to make the transition faster like 128K for the Glyphcahe system ram all up to 90% Mem usage WITH NOTHING running and no Today crap and it still takes 1-2 seconds compared to 3-5 seconds with no optimizations.... really a PITA




its also tiring reading a book Landscape then having the thing switch to Portrat then having to go all the way back to settings and flip the screen again before i can continue reading...

EDIT1: I recently dug up my Sony CLIE UX50 and even though its a PALM platform with a low 124MHZ PROC (me thinks it was) STILL kicks the Mogul/ANY OTHER HTC's video performance.. and even game performance... anything performance... except compression... (DUH Mogul/Most other HTC's have bigger PROC)

[frag999]

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=388728&page=4

Benchmarks posted here to illustrate the point. Some people think this is part of the promised optimizations from the manufacturer.

Other people are looking at drivers located in the new Imate 9502 that has a msm7200 chipset as well:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745&page=100

Maybe there will be some hardware acceleration in the new raphael and diamond that could be borrowed.

Hopefully these multiple approaches will synergistically gel to greatly increase performance for my mogul :)

[bakntyme]

@bakntyme

Sorry im going to have to agree with everyone else over you... (not just this thread mind you but a simple search and you should see what i mean) but please feel free to either use MyMobiler and record a video of your superb performance.... honistly... or find some other app to record... even using the most slimmed down ROM to the Stock i still get what he is describing.... and worse... i have changed things to make the transition faster like 128K for the Glyphcahe system ram all up to 90% Mem usage WITH NOTHING running and no Today crap and it still takes 1-2 seconds compared to 3-5 seconds with no optimizations.... really a PITA
...It really does not matter with whom you agree...you could actually open your mind and believe all of us; just because other Titans exhibit poor performance in this area does not mean that my Titan must also. Or does your need to believe that it is a systemic problem that affects all Titans make you so sure that I am lying that only a video will convince you that i am telling the truth?

[Hammerfest]

It really does not matter with whom you agree...you could actually open your mind and believe all of us; just because other Titans exhibit poor performance in this area does not mean that my Titan must also. Or does your need to believe that it is a systemic problem that affects all Titans make you so sure that I am lying that only a video will convince you that i am telling the truth?

no i am merely saying that you seem to have an uncanny tone in both your first post and your follow up post that begs the question why reply in a thread asking of others PROBLEMS if you have none? if you have none congratz.. but this thread is not about who doesn't have but rather who has AND if any news has been heard about fixing it... as any search you will do on "HTC Video Performance"... your "non-existant" problem is one in... well... almost the entire production of any newer (at least) HTC Device!

I don't know what you have done to your Mogul, but mine switches from landscape to portrait (or vice versa) faster than I could press a stopwatch button twice. The scrolling in File Explorer, dragging the stylus down the scroll bar, is instantaneous. I am running the stock Sprint 3.35 package. The only time I see terribly slow response is when the Mogul is connected to my PC and syncing...then it is glacial. But I do not usually use it when it is syncing so that has not been a problem."


So again, as you don't seem to have a problem, CONGRATZ however I am a firm believer of a "post when important or relevant" policy and well.. your post is HIGHLY IRRELEVANT as this thread (as i said above) is about the problem as well as possible news of its being resolved...

Sorry thats just the way i feel...

Now as for the RELEVENT part of this post... I read a notice on PhoneNews and while they say they are working on some fixes.. its nearly 99.99% that their will be no advancements for HWL control of the GFX part of the phone due to "fees and software development time" HOWEVER i have high hope that the Raphael will have said drivers and since it seems not TOO much is different hopefully someone will be able to REVENG them for our oh so broken HTC devices...

[dy2592]

I hate to repeat myself, but go click "Start" and then "Programs"... scroll up AND down as fast as you can... it is anything but smooth scrolling... as far as switching from landscape to portrait faster than you can press a stopwatch button twice, I can only assume you are trying to use your feet. I have used the stock ROM, the kitchen, and DCDs custom ROM... it's slow. I count roughly 2-3 seconds. Granted, it may not seem like a "long" time in the grand scheme of things... for a phone, it's an eternity, and ultimately... it's not as fast as phones that are 3 years old. I'm ecstatic for you that you are happy with the performance of your phone. Why would you even bother to *read* this message thread if that's the case?

Additionally... in File Explorer... don't try scrolling down slowly... try up *and* down quickly. If you can *see* the screen refresh, then it's too damned slow. It's supposed to SCROLL... not BLINK.

Holy crap. LMAO

[bakntyme]

no i am merely saying that you seem to have an uncanny tone in both your first post and your follow up post that begs the question why reply in a thread asking of others PROBLEMS if you have none? if you have none congratz.. but this thread is not about who doesn't have but rather who has AND if any news has been heard about fixing it... as any search you will do on "HTC Video Performance"... your "non-existant" problem is one in... well... almost the entire production of any newer (at least) HTC Device!
...
So again, as you don't seem to have a problem, CONGRATZ however I am a firm believer of a "post when important or relevant" policy and well.. your post is HIGHLY IRRELEVANT as this thread (as i said above) is about the problem as well as possible news of its being resolved...

Sorry thats just the way i feel...

Now as for the RELEVENT part of this post... I read a notice on PhoneNews and while they say they are working on some fixes.. its nearly 99.99% that their will be no advancements for HWL control of the GFX part of the phone due to "fees and software development time" HOWEVER i have high hope that the Raphael will have said drivers and since it seems not TOO much is different hopefully someone will be able to REVENG them for our oh so broken HTC devices...
I thought it was relevant to point out that since my Mogul does not exhibit the delays, the problems you are experiencing may not be caused by what you think is causing them. And if you read this thread, you will discover a post by another user who doesn't see the problem. The original post posed the question, "So... does anyone have *any* information about the HTC video acceleration problems?" A post indicating that the problems are not experienced by all users is responsive to that question. But since you all insist that your problems are systemic to the device, only new drivers will fix it, and any users not experiencing the problems should not be allowed to discuss it, I will let you keep that belief.

[illuminarok]

I thought it was relevant to point out that since my Mogul does not exhibit the delays, the problems you are experiencing may not be caused by what you think is causing them. And if you read this thread, you will discover a post by another user who doesn't see the problem. The original post posed the question, "So... does anyone have *any* information about the HTC video acceleration problems?" A post indicating that the problems are not experienced by all users is responsive to that question. But since you all insist that your problems are systemic to the device, only new drivers will fix it, and any users not experiencing the problems should not be allowed to discuss it, I will let you keep that belief.

The fact of the matter is, hardware acceleration within the video drivers would considerably speed up all of the devices regardless of if you do or do not see a problem with your own device.

[Foetus]

First, I didn't realize that we were supposed to PM you for permission to *read* threads on this forum and that you would only permit users who agree with you to read those threads.

I can be polite exactly once per thread per idiot. Typically, it's a misunderstanding that is cleared up with a more in-depth explanation. As for permission to read the thread... re-read my question, except this time, pretend you're not a flame-baiting schmuck that didn't get hugged by his mother enough as a child. I asked you a question... WHY would you read a thread about a problem you don't have, nor have a solution for? I'm hoping you can play the piano brialliantly, thus adding the term "savant" to your title.

Nor does the thread title "Video acceleration news?" imply that it is going to be really just another gripe thread. Second, when you said "Go into the "Programs" folder, and scroll up and down a bit" that is not the same thing as "I hate to repeat myself, but go click "Start" and then "Programs";

Actually... the question mark implies that I am asking a *question*. While it doesn't explicitly ask the question "Does anyone have some video acceleration news?", it does in fact do more than subtly *hint*. In fact... one would go as far as to say that it is IMPLIED. Your illilteracy is not my problem (Oh... and illiteracy is the inability to read... I am not saying your parents weren't married). Furthermore, rephrasing my example actually DOES count as repeating myself... it doesn't have to be exact; that's what the word "verbatim" would be used for. Isn't English FUN!??!

second. The switch between portrait and landscape is also accomplished in a fraction of a second. Scrolling in File Explorer works as it should with no blinking.

Before (as I said), I was polite about this. YOU ARE A LIAR. I believe that your pants may be ablaze. I have heard it suggested to hang pants in such a condition on a telephone wire. HTC has stated that they know about the issue and their solution is to buy a new phone when they come out with video acceleration. Either you are OK with the delay (which is what I assumed originally), have *zero* concept of time, or option C: you are a dirty, filthy, weird liar. I'm betting it's option C, I'm betting you look for fights behind the anonymity of the internet constantly, and I bet you die alone and unloved.

If I were in your position, instead of assuming that someone who posts different experiences than yours must be a fool who cannot tell how much time elapses during screen redraws and then telling them that they should not be reading "your" thread, I would question why my own device could not do what other similar devices can do.

If I were in *your* position, I wouldn't assume that even though HTC has admitted the problem, and just about everyone complains about this problem, your ARGUMENT about the device would advance this thread in any kind of positive way whatsoever. Again... you will die alone. I am clairvoyant.


maccaberry: I also use iGuidance 3.0.1, and the screen response works properly either with an external Bluetooth GPS receiver, or with the internal GPS receiver and the intermediate port workarounds. That workaround requirement is more a limitation of iGuidance than of the Mogul.

...all alone.

edit: maccaberry, you say that HTC has supplied substandard software. But at least some of your experiences are with a bootloader, ROM, and radio that were either not supplied by HTC for your device, or not supplied for use on your carrier, or not supplied to be used together, or have been modified from the software as it was supplied by HTC. I am running the stock Sprint 3.35 package with all of the customizations as supplied by HTC. Maybe that has some effect?

On this, I agree a little bit... the latest ROMs fixed the delay a little bit, if I recall. Certainly, he lists an older DCD rom in his sig.

Oh... PS: All alone, by yourself, with no one to cry at your funeral.

[Foetus]

It really does not matter with whom you agree...you could actually open your mind and believe all of us; just because other Titans exhibit poor performance in this area does not mean that my Titan must also. Or does your need to believe that it is a systemic problem that affects all Titans make you so sure that I am lying that only a video will convince you that i am telling the truth?

Actually, having the exact same hardware and the exact same hardware *does* mean that "just because other Titans exhibit poor performance in this area", yours does as well. Unless somehow, you have a defect in your equipment that somehow makes your phone FASTER. It's not an issue of having an open mind... it's an issue about having the same equipment. Again, though, if you have no issues with the performance of the phone, that's excellent. I honestly *am* happy that you are satisfied with your purchase... but you can't tell other people that their dissatisfaction with a product is baseless. Everyone has their own opinion... this thread, however, wasn't created for posting your *opinion*. I was looking for updates. HTC has said they're working on something (but have stated it's not acceleration, but more along the lines of "tweaks" and optimization)...

[bakntyme]

Actually, having the exact same hardware and the exact same hardware *does* mean that "just because other Titans exhibit poor performance in this area", yours does as well. Unless somehow, you have a defect in your equipment that somehow makes your phone FASTER. It's not an issue of having an open mind... it's an issue about having the same equipment. Again, though, if you have no issues with the performance of the phone, that's excellent. I honestly *am* happy that you are satisfied with your purchase... but you can't tell other people that their dissatisfaction with a product is baseless. Everyone has their own opinion... this thread, however, wasn't created for posting your *opinion*. I was looking for updates. HTC has said they're working on something (but have stated it's not acceleration, but more along the lines of "tweaks" and optimization)...I am glad to see that you have wrested control of your account back from your evil twin. If you now re-read my posts, you will see that I never said that anyone's dissatisfaction is baseless, simply that it may be due to some other unknown reason than what was being assumed. And I do have a vested interest in finding out why my phone does not exhibit the problem that the vast majority suffer from, as I would like to avoid changing whatever it is that currently makes my phone apparently immune.

[bedoig]

Wow Foetus, that last post was pure gold. So hard to quote just one part, but if I have to, I'm going with this line:

I'm hoping you can play the piano brialliantly, thus adding the term "savant" to your title.

Hilarious!!

[Foetus]

Wow Foetus, that last post was pure gold. So hard to quote just one part, but if I have to, I'm going with this line:



Hilarious!!

Would have been better if I had spelled "brilliantly" properly... Curse you, irony!

[Foetus]

I am glad to see that you have wrested control of your account back from your evil twin. If you now re-read my posts, you will see that I never said that anyone's dissatisfaction is baseless, simply that it may be due to some other unknown reason than what was being assumed. And I do have a vested interest in finding out why my phone does not exhibit the problem that the vast majority suffer from, as I would like to avoid changing whatever it is that currently makes my phone apparently immune.

I believe someone suggested that you take some video and post it... it would more likely than not clear up the confusion. My best guess is that what you find acceptable in a 600 dollar device is not acceptable to most other people. If, however, your device performs smoothly (have you tried to scroll up and down yet as I suggested? Is *that* smooth?), then we should take a look at what we are all doing wrong.

[Keystone]

I can be polite exactly once per thread per idiot. ... Your illilteracy is not my problemWell, without the delay of official moderation -- dude, tone it down.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From my perspective of my phone and the one I've set-up for my father, the today screen and most apps switch from landscape to portrait in ~1 second. Scrolling up and down in the program's listing is also fine without blatant jitters and pauses. Video is silk smooth when not using the stock Media Player.

Would the release of Direct Draw drivers be appreciated? Certainly. Are they a necessity? No.

A possible discrepancy between our devices? I'm using a WM 6 build.

Telus has not released a ROM since last July. Despite Telus and thankfully due to HTC's continual background dissemination of updated drivers to various and less lazy carriers along with third party development (ROM extractors, olipro, kitchen builders, etc..) my phone works as it was advertised and expected to.

Simple, turn on and go to perfection? No. A minor amount of work has been required. Yet I'm not the type to sit around and wait for others to resolve solvable problems for me and threaten to sue (HTCClassaction.org remains without lawyer representation and has little if any validity to its rants) for issues that will only take a simple and free CAB installation (TCPMP for video) to resolve.

[Foetus]

Well, without the delay of official moderation -- dude, tone it down.


Dude... I did. It's like telling someone to leave after they're already out the door... pointless and condescending. Comments like this are plain unneccessary and only add fuel to any fires that are raging... it started as a discussion, and is currently *back* to a nice, friendly discussion.

That said... again, I must believe that people that don't see the problem have not seen how the *old* phones perform. It's like seeing graphics at 60 frames per second and then buying a new computer that does 30 frames per second. Although 30 FPS is plenty, it's not nearly as smooth as 60, and you would be ticked off going from 60 to 30 after spending 600 bucks, whereas someone that's never owned a PC before would be perfectly happy with 30.

Having said all of this, maybe a new thread should be started called "I am perfectly happy with the performance of my device" so we can try to get some INFORMATION into this thread. I wasn't looking for solidarity in people unhappy, nor was I looking for some discussion as to how a few people are happy with their phones. I (and I'm sure many others) are looking for updates to the HTC patch or any news related to hacking ROMs on newer devices that could potentially give us speed boosts.

Finally, just to be clear: I don't use my device for video. My complaints are solely that my screen refreshes at an unacceptable (to many) rate because of the lack of video acceleration. My free phone from Sprint is smooth as silk, and my expensive WM (I have used 6 and 6.1) phone feels clunky, although ultimately far more useful.

[bakntyme]

I believe someone suggested that you take some video and post it... it would more likely than not clear up the confusion. My best guess is that what you find acceptable in a 600 dollar device is not acceptable to most other people. If, however, your device performs smoothly (have you tried to scroll up and down yet as I suggested? Is *that* smooth?), then we should take a look at what we are all doing wrong.I took a video, admittedly very poor quality, but I don't have a video camera and it was done in video mode on my digital camera...but every time I click "manage attachments" I get a database error.

[morganlowe]

Wow... this is nuts... time for beer-interjection.

My Axim X51 and Axim X51V where awesome at video, My Titan sucks at it... It would be nice to not have all the refresh delays but you know, it's a phone. I just hope HTC figures it out for the future products.

Either way, if a hack comes out or HTC fixes it, great, if not... all well swell what the hell.

[Foetus]

I took a video, admittedly very poor quality, but I don't have a video camera and it was done in video mode on my digital camera...but every time I click "manage attachments" I get a database error.

Awesome! Perhaps you can upload it (and just put a link to it here) using one of the free file sharing sites. Looking forward to seeing it.

[bakntyme]

Try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2JmMu3Ylc

[MrTek]

Bak,

My VX6800 pretty much takes the same amount of time to flip from L to P and back again as in your video.

Maybe a 1 second lag over all.

Jef

[bakntyme]

MrTek, you have taken your life in your hands posting that in this thread...I am afraid that my flame-retardant clothing won't protect you too...

And I am shocked that even Foetus is speechless...he must be watching that video over, and over, and over...

[prepsssuck]

This is the best post I've read all week....Its like a soap opera....My lags sometimes but only when I have a few programs open and using like crazy so I think its more of a Ram issue...which everyone can aggree can be better.

[bakntyme]

Where did everybody go? Are you guys that embarrassed that you can't say anything? If it makes you feel better, start with a simple apology; it isn't that difficult. And then, I still would like to know what is different about my Titan that keeps it from exhibiting the same behavior as most of your devices. Until that can be determined, I am not only unwilling to flash a custom ROM or make any major changes to the setup, but don't even know if I can safely add applications.

edit: as an additional kicker, I received this Titan as a refurbished replacement from Sprint for my first one, which after a couple of months wouldn't power up at all; but from what I remember, it did not respond as fast as this one, but it was prior to the release of the GPS ROMs.

[Keystone]

bakntyme, your video displays the identical performance that I achieve. Thanks for getting that out there -- no time for me to play...

[steps]

Yea you really didn't prove a point...ALL the moguls switch from L to P in the same amount of time in your video. Mine does. I still think for these devices to be as "powerful" as they are supposed to be it still lags. L to P should be instant (Like the sidekick). If I can see my screen flip and redraw itself, it is too slow and should be fixed. Unfortunately you are still in the same boat as the rest of us like I stated previously your video didn't prove anything.

[MrTek]

I'm not sure the big deal about this thread. Any improvement from HTC is going to benefit us all, no matter how much faster or slower one device maybe.

My biggest problems is due to not enough memory for what I want to do with the device. This just means I have to manage memory through the day by using tools like oxios, etc.

[bakntyme]

After seeing those who posted after me, there are about half a dozen users who say that they do not have the same problem as the OP and others. I include "steps" in that count, because he (or she) apparently did not read the "5 to 10 second" screen redraw complaint and says that he, as well as all Titan users, experiences sub-second redraws, although he believes that to be not acceptable.

Maybe those of you who are experiencing the problem are not really the vast majority, but have been so aggressive and intimidating to others that they have not come forward to dispute your claims.

Maybe my Titan is not such an anomaly, and I should not be so concerned about installing apps and making other changes. But I will wait a bit longer to see what else comes out of this.

[Foetus]

After seeing those who posted after me, there are about half a dozen users who say that they do not have the same problem as the OP and others. I include "steps" in that count, because he (or she) apparently did not read the "5 to 10 second" screen redraw complaint and says that he, as well as all Titan users, experiences sub-second redraws, although he believes that to be not acceptable.

Maybe those of you who are experiencing the problem are not really the vast majority, but have been so aggressive and intimidating to others that they have not come forward to dispute your claims.

Maybe my Titan is not such an anomaly, and I should not be so concerned about installing apps and making other changes. But I will wait a bit longer to see what else comes out of this.

I don't read this forum all day... I typically check it a few times throughout the day, so an instant response does not mean I'm "speechless". I haven't seen the video, although I will check it out tonight (I block Youtube here at work, and I try to play by my own rules). From what it sounds like, there is at least a 1 second "lag time" shown in the video... which confirms what I thought... It is acceptable to you, but not to me. Once you load a PROGRAM (Skyfire is a good example), it's even slower... typically changing to landscape in 1+ seconds, but not utilizing the full screen (reformatting and redrawing) for another 1-3 seconds. Again... I will keep an open mind until I see this video... I still haven't heard your results (or better, SEEN them) in scrolling up and down quickly inside "Programs" which has basically been *the* test example (between old devices and new). Again... is it usable? Yes, absolutely... is it what you expect after paying 600 bucks for a NEW device to "upgrade" your old one? Absolutely not.

[Foetus]

Try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R2JmMu3Ylc

Ok... I just watched it, but I will throw in one caveat: I watched it using Skyfire on my 6800, so I'll still reserve some judgement when I watch it on my PC at home...

From what I just saw, your PPC shows the same kind of delays that mine has. Exactly the same. It's basically what I thought: you and I have the same issue, but you don't mind it, and I do. I will try to post a link, but do a search on Youtube for comparisons between OLDER HTC devices, and the 6800. You will then see what I'm talking about. The redraw times are just not acceptable for a 600 dollar device, at least... to most people. I have a Jornada 520 from about, oh... 8 years ago (I'm guesstimating). The redraw times are FASTER on that device using 2d applications. Period. So we're back to where we started: Your satisfaction and my satisfaction is the only thing different here... the devices are identical.

[Foetus]

After seeing those who posted after me, there are about half a dozen users who say that they do not have the same problem as the OP and others. I include "steps" in that count, because he (or she) apparently did not read the "5 to 10 second" screen redraw complaint and says that he, as well as all Titan users, experiences sub-

This one, I will take the blame for as I should have been more clear... the delay is about 1.5 seconds when just rotating from landscape to portait in the home screen... but I never rotate in the home screen... why would I? When rotating, it's because I need the keyboard, and when I need the keyboard, I'm in a program... I use Skyfire typically, but for giggles, I opened up PIE, and opened up a webpage with a moderate amount of graphics... then went back and forth between L and P... granted, every once in a while, it will rotate in about a second, but typically, it's anywhere from 1-4 seconds... so I contend that my "5-10" second redraw is a little (cough) exaggerated in most instances (although certainly, it *does* take 5-10 seconds on occasion for certain programs to redraw completely). I've learned my lesson about throwing numbers around casually on the intertubes. *However*... even a ONE second draw time is just ridiculous on a 600 dollar device released in 2007.

Now... does ANYONE have ANY updates as to a fix?

EDIT: Just noticed that I stated "I count roughly 2-3 seconds" early in this thread (after the initial numbers taken from thin air and perceived memory), so I don't feel like *such* schmuck about the initial numbers.

[Foetus]

This is the best post I've read all week....Its like a soap opera....My lags sometimes but only when I have a few programs open and using like crazy so I think its more of a Ram issue...which everyone can aggree can be better.

True enough about the RAM, but you could see the 6800 was low on RAM just by looking at the box it came in, so HTC can't be faulted for that one whatsoever, ultimately.

[prepsssuck]

True enough about the RAM, but you could see the 6800 was low on RAM just by looking at the box it came in, so HTC can't be faulted for that one whatsoever, ultimately.
Never blamed them for the lack of RAM....Its just an issue...Just a thought ..It may lag more by using the HTC Home screen instead of the stock today screen. HTC home seems to be a little HOG and eats up some VITAL ram available...at least on the titan.. Just a thought though....But as you can read in my post that I said it could be better... not that is what a problem with the device....PS you come off as a real....well thats a differnet post all together so Ill stay on topic...So when those new drivers coming out?

[Foetus]

Never blamed them for the lack of RAM....Its just an issue...Just a thought ..It may lag more by using the HTC Home screen instead of the stock today screen. HTC home seems to be a little HOG and eats up some VITAL ram available...at least on the titan.. Just a thought though....But as you can read in my post that I said it could be better... not that is what a problem with the device....PS you come off as a real....well thats a differnet post all together so Ill stay on topic...So when those new drivers coming out?

I could see you inferring that about me in the ONE post... but I was kind of agreeing with you in that last one. Sorry if that one post makes you assume I have that tone in every e-mail now. Maybe it was the use of "you" in my comment... I meant "you" as in "anyone that bought this, including me"... not "you" as in "you specifically". Didn't mean to imply you were blaming HTC... just noting that although I agree it's an issue, it's not something I would expect HTC to do anything about, unlike this video issue... hope that cleared things up a bit.

[bakntyme]

Ok... I just watched it, but I will throw in one caveat: I watched it using Skyfire on my 6800, so I'll still reserve some judgement when I watch it on my PC at home...

From what I just saw, your PPC shows the same kind of delays that mine has. Exactly the same. It's basically what I thought: you and I have the same issue, but you don't mind it, and I do. I will try to post a link, but do a search on Youtube for comparisons between OLDER HTC devices, and the 6800. You will then see what I'm talking about. The redraw times are just not acceptable for a 600 dollar device, at least... to most people. I have a Jornada 520 from about, oh... 8 years ago (I'm guesstimating). The redraw times are FASTER on that device using 2d applications. Period. So we're back to where we started: Your satisfaction and my satisfaction is the only thing different here... the devices are identical.I will also wait until you see it on your home PC, but there is not a delay in scrolling in the Programs screen. And somehow you went from a 5 to 10 second delay to a fraction of one second delay in your description of your device's response? If you do not think the performance shown in my video, viewed on your PC, is acceptable, you will never be satisfied.

If you see what you described in the below extracts from your posts on your home computer, you need a new computer or a new stopwatch. The entire video clip spans an elapsed time of 33 seconds, during which there are 6 portrait-to-landscape redraws and 7 scrolling redraws in the Programs folder. Add in the time between the screen taps and keyboard slides, as well as the first opening draw of the program folder and the final draw of the Today screen... I could have done it in less total elapsed time, but I did not think it was necessary to race through the video. And by the way I did rotate the screen twice in the Programs screen....My *main* complaint that *actually* gets in my way, though, is the delay in rotating the screen. I typically don't use the hardware keyboard for exactly this reason. I would rather use the stylus and the on-screen keyboard than wait for 5-10 seconds while I wait for the screen to redraw. ...

I hate to repeat myself, but go click "Start" and then "Programs"... scroll up AND down as fast as you can... it is anything but smooth scrolling... as far as switching from landscape to portrait faster than you can press a stopwatch button twice, I can only assume you are trying to use your feet. I have used the stock ROM, the kitchen, and DCDs custom ROM... it's slow. I count roughly 2-3 seconds. ...

edit:
... the delay is about 1.5 seconds when just rotating from landscape to portait in the home screen...
...
so I don't feel like *such* schmuck about the initial numbers.
There is not a redraw in my video that takes more than one-half of a second and most are much faster than that. I doubt that your home computer scrolls noticeably faster in any window than my video shows the Programs screen scrolling.

And yes, after you re-read some of your posts in the first few pages of this thread, one of them in particular, you should feel ashamed even if you can't bring yourself to admit that the response times in my video are acceptable.

[Foetus]

I will also wait until you see it on your home PC, but there is not a delay in scrolling in the Programs screen. And somehow you went from a 5 to 10 second delay to a fraction of one second delay in your description of your device's response? If you do not think the performance shown in my video, viewed on your PC, is acceptable, you will never be satisfied.

Ok... first of all, I called *myself* out on the 5-to-10 thing, even though I had already changed this to a 2-3 second delay later... not a "fraction of a second". Even in your video, the delay is at least one second, and this is without *any* programs running. As for me never being satisfied, I think you've only been reading my posts for points to argue with. I WAS SATISFIED WITH MY OLD PDA'S PERFORMANCE. Check this video out for an example of OLD hardware vs NEW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJWAu6IRe4


The entire video clip spans an elapsed time of 33 seconds, during which there are 6 portrait-to-landscape redraws and 7 scrolling redraws in the Programs folder.

I saw the P-to-L redraws, and find them totally unacceptable for a 600 dollar device. As for the scrolling up and down... although I found what you showed unacceptable, it's not what I was referring to. Clicking the equivalent to "page down" is not scrolling... click and hold the scroll bar, and go up and down as fast as you can... it blinks... badly. Even in *your* video, it's blinking pretty badly... again... especially compared to older hardware. I again point you to the Youtube example, although there used to be one on Youtube showing the exact thing I'm talking about (the current video just shows TomTom, but it still illustrates nicely the difference between older hardware and a 600 dollar "upgrade").

There is not a redraw in my video that takes more than one-half of a second and most are much faster than that.

I don't think *I'm* the one that needs a new stopwatch... but again: any perceived delay greater than a device 3+ years older than it is just plain silly.

I doubt that your home computer scrolls noticeably faster in any window than my video shows the Programs screen scrolling.

HANDS DOWN, my home PC smokes this. I can now only assume you have some kind of blinking disorder that happens to be synced perfectly with your phone.

And yes, after you re-read some of your posts in the first few pages of this thread, one of them in particular, you should feel ashamed even if you can't bring yourself to admit that the response times in my video are acceptable.

Ok... now I'm just going to stop, because once you start not even budging on what someone OTHER than yourself finds "acceptable", you are officially too narrow-minded and bull-headed to have a serious discussion. Even as big of an a-hole as I can be, I have contended from the start of this that your level of acceptable and mine may differ. Go check out an older HTC device like the Magician and use it for at least one week. After that, switch back to the Mogul and tell me if you think still think it's acceptable. That said, I've already wasted too many words with you... I first thought you were flame-baiting, then thought you were going to be cool about it (after I saw you were going to post a video), and now I'm right back to my original thought: You think so highly of your own opinion that you actively seek to disprove someone else's, even in a thread where they are not looking for opinions. Your latest thread has just proved to me that you aren't trying to understand anyone else's point of view, rather than force your own onto others.

[Hammerfest]

heres the thing...
I have an old Sony CLIE UX50... ALTHOUGH the OS and HW design is DIFFERENT then the Titan please note that:
Titan:
64MB RAM
400Mhz~ (dont know the exact think its 414 or something)

UX50:
40MB RAM
123Mhz
now I dont give a wooden nickel what anyone else thinks HOWEVER I paid $650 BACK in 2004 for this thing (the CLIE UX50) AND it OUTPERFORMS the Titan IN EVERY VIDEO/VISUAL ASPECT.... from flipping the screen, GPS, GAMES, Adobe... everything... AND i paid $250 (plan or it would have costed $500) for the Titan

now i do understand that some will say its like comparing apples to oranges HOWEVER the fact still remains 123MhzVS400Mhz~ and the 123Mhz wins (with video acceleration of a small portion of the CPU)... UNACCEPTABLE that ~1-6 (with progs running) you see.... yeah.. thats it...

EDIT1:" I doubt that your home computer scrolls noticeably faster in any window than my video shows the Programs screen scrolling."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA HHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. ............ seriously though... how much thought did you put into that comment... my old server with a 500mhz INTEL and onboard 8MB video with NO DRIVERS.. performs better... ChEcK YoUr EyE's
(oh yeah not often i get to revert back to acting like a 14 year old -notes siblings have this attitude at 14 so age is correct- ahhh that was great...)

[Noiro]

LOL its funny to see there are still some arguing this LOL.

HTC has admitted fault here, still they missed the point of it not being solely a video issue but back to the topic:

Before I email HTC CS, does anyone have any updates or any feedback as to whats happening with this fix?

[bakntyme]

Foetus:

First you said screen redraws take 5 to 10 seconds, then you said they take 2 to 3 seconds, then you said rotation in the home screen takes 1.5 seconds. Now you say that your device redraws the screen as fast as my video shows. There is not a redraw in that video that takes more than one-half of a second; if you are seeing one that does, you are not running the video at normal speed.

You are right, I should not presume to say what is acceptable to you. I hope that you get what you are looking for.

[Keystone]

heres the thing...
I have an old Sony CLIE UX50... ALTHOUGH the OS and HW design is DIFFERENT then the Titan..The Palm OS and Windows CE/WM are extremely different beasts. The Palm OS was delightfully small and nimble, but now overtly limited and its time has passed.

Shall myself or another try to compare multi-tasking and the smooth sliding of the screen down between tasks on a few decades old Amiga platform and a decade old Windows PC?

Let's try to be real and honestly compare apples-to-apples rather than apples-to-oranges.

As it stands the implementation of HTC's current devices gets the advertised jobs done. Could there be improvements? Certainly. Have any of you honestly been misled and are your perceived complaints critical flaws?

[Foetus]

Foetus:

First you said screen redraws take 5 to 10 seconds, then you said they take 2 to 3 seconds, then you said rotation in the home screen takes 1.5 seconds. Now you say that your device redraws the screen as fast as my video shows. There is not a redraw in that video that takes more than one-half of a second; if you are seeing one that does, you are not running the video at normal speed.

Someone that keeps bringing up a point that the other person has already conceded has lost the the main argument and is grasping at straws. As far as 1.5 seconds... Your screen looked like it redrew *mostly* at 1 second... but there were 1 or two that took slightly less, however I will repeat that you are doing this with NO PROGRAMS LOADED. Again... who switches from portrait to landscape on the homescreen? What would you ever have to TYPE on the homescreen? Even with just the SPB mobile shell, I notice a bit more lag in flipping back and forth. That said, I think we've taken this discussion as far as it will go, and it looks like you and I are getting to the same page of "let's agree to disagree". So to sum up: With no programs loaded on a fresh reboot of the phone, our phones perform the same. I will contend that it will go from Portrait to Landscape in roughly 1 second (For a point of reference, this is ONE FRAME PER SECOND). I really can't believe you don't see the redraw problems in the Youtube TomTom comparison video, while scrolling up and down in Programs, or while switching from P to L while in a program such as PIE, Skyfire, etc. Ultimately, though, without a frame of reference as to previous devices' performance, I can see how you may be perfectly happy with this performance. The computer I owned 10 years ago gave me years of entertainment, and I certainly never complained about the speed of it... if I had owned my current computer *first* however, and then gone back to the older one... see where I'm going with this? Now with that comparison, pretend I traded in the current computer for the older one and spent 600 bucks doing so.


You are right, I should not presume to say what is acceptable to you. I hope that you get what you are looking for.

Again... sounds like we're agreeing to disagree, which is probably the most we can expect from each other right now. I hope your phone gives you years of enjoyment, I really do... also, I really *don't* hope you die alone. :)

[groovdafied]

Oh my god!

You know, I can understand if you're justifying your purchase because it's lacking features like Ram, GPS or Design for that matter. But for people to be complainging about a second of redraw to me is so CHILDISH.

I run Opera 9, YouTube videos, sync my Napster/Rhapsody songs and play them back to my bluetooth stereo headphones, use the GPS, play games, pictures, videos, organization. Ya, not all these programs aren't run all at once, but I would use like music with net browsing or GPS guidance, and I wouldn't get a hiccup. My only gripe is the amount of system memory, but that's it. I can care less about a screen taking one second to redraw from one P to L and vise versa. I mean how much of your life do you feel is wasted when noticing that one second has lapsed to 2 seconds for the sceen to return to normal, yet your apps are still working as they should?

I don't know if I'm making sense here, but I read this whole thread, and it's just a bunch of lip work from one user to another, saying I'm right and you're wrong.

Geeze enjoy your device and move on! I honestly think since the word got out about HTC not having the license to create "proper drivers" for video acceleration, people want to complain about it so they can get a new software goodie to give them peace of mind that they have a new toy for their phone.

I'm not pointing to anybody in particular, but in general. You can flame me as much as you want, I'm not really going to care, cause it's not going to stop me from enjoying my handset with what I'm doing on it already. I can watch videos smoothly, listen to music, read emails, go to websites and get directions very fluently and I'm friggin happy that I can actually do something like that!

[faceless]

the redraws in the video are all 0.4-0.6 seconds

[Foetus]

Oh my god!
You can flame me as much as you want

Don't mind if I do! HTC has stated that they are not going to turn on the video acceleration due to licensing. Putting the argument aside that they advertised a chipset that is known to have video acceleration built in as being in their product, they have stated that they are doing SOMETHING. All I want is some information on a timeframe. Complaining about a products performance in regards to a MUCH OLDER device is not "childish". That said, this thread was NEVER about complaining... just information gathering. The only people whining and complaining so far have been people telling me what *MY* friggin' level of satisfaction should be with a device.

[Asphyx]

Here is the timeframe....
NEVER!

You want acceleration you will get it far quicker by upgrading your phone when your contract runs out than you will waiting for them to enable that feature...

Even if they did enable it you still have to wait for the carriers to release a Rom that supports the fix!

[Foetus]

Here is the timeframe....
Even if they did enable it you still have to wait for the carriers to release a Rom that supports the fix!

Wait for the carrier? Have you even heard of DCD? :)

Honestly, people always seem to take the negative outlook. "Never" was claimed for Rev A. "Never" was claimed for the GPS... I'm sure HTC will strike a balance somewhere along the road. Although HTC would love to see people upgrade to the next version of their phones, they know there's plenty of competition out there if they tick off too many customers.

Honestly, if the patch never comes out, and Sprint only gets HTC products for their WM phone solutions, I will most likely dump Sprint when the time comes to upgrade... but I'm fairly confident that either HTC will release the patch (*not* the acceleration everyone seems to think I am waiting for) to improve performance eventually.

[digitaloutsider]

I can only hope HTC does in fact make video driver pack because I personally don't find the performance of the device acceptable either. I love my Titan, but issues with the video and HTC not wanting to fix it is making me want to jump ship back to Palm whenever the 800W comes out.

Then again, if any company likes to shit all over its customers, it has to be Palm.

[bedoig]

HTC will release the patch (*not* the acceleration everyone seems to think I am waiting for) to improve performance eventually.

You were the victim of circumstance. There were so many threads mindlessly complaining about hardware video acceleration that most people assumed this was just another one of those. And some people just like to argue. Bottom line, the device could perform better and I'll welcome any optimizations we get.

[groovdafied]

just information gathering. The only people whining and complaining so far have been people telling me what *MY* friggin' level of satisfaction should be with a device.

Good for you, I hope you get your information. Even though this thread started as an information thread, it sure turned into a whining one.:rolleyes:

[Keystone]

Wait for the carrier? Have you even heard of DCD? :)None of us have leaking contacts within the R&D of HTC. We are at the mercy to the carriers for what we have access to. It takes at least one carrier to provide the material for ROMs... Without that carrier we'd barely progress.Honestly, people always seem to take the negative outlook.That's disowning spin if I ever did witness. Let's be honest then -- you should have avoided insults, name-calling, bullying, and onto overt exaggeration for your NEGATIVE complaints.

Foetus, you've been all over the place. This thread could have been much more relaxing if you weren't bouncing from one extreme to another -- partisan, member insulting, and absolutely condemning extreme against HTC to your more lovey-dovey wait and see optimism of your previous post...... Toning down and rational balance could have been key.

[Keystone]

I can only hope HTC does in fact make video driver pack because I personally don't find the performance of the device acceptable either. I love my Titan, but issues with the video and HTC not wanting to fix it...Can you be specific against what is hampering you?

Has this view manifested from personal use or been warped by rants you've seen on the internet? By your comment of "HTC not wanting to fix it" I will assume that your viewpoint is skewed by blogging misinformation.

What exactly do you feel is owed to you, why, and what are your specific complaints. I think those are fair points to be explored rather than the mirroring of generalised complaining.

[digitaloutsider]

I don't feel anything is owed to me, but I do feel that the performance of the Titan leaves a lot to be desired, especially in stock form. I'm running the stock Sprint ROM and even after a soft reset, the phone is using 70% of it's available internal memory. I don't have much of anything installed on the device aside from the Palm threaded SMS and the HTC home screen. Even after wiping the Titan completely, it's using roughly 65% of the available memory. As soon as I start the messaging app, open Outlook and then browse around in IE, the phone slows to a crawl, and flipping the keyboard out is absolutely painful. If a call comes through, it'll lag for about 4-5 seconds, then finally display the caller ID. I don't find this functionality acceptable.

I'm not saying the Titan is an awful device and HTC is an awful company (they're my favorite phone manufacturer), but you can't honestly say that you wouldn't mind better performance out of the box.

[bakntyme]

I don't feel anything is owed to me, but I do feel that the performance of the Titan leaves a lot to be desired, especially in stock form. I'm running the stock Sprint ROM and even after a soft reset, the phone is using 70% of it's available internal memory. I don't have much of anything installed on the device aside from the Palm threaded SMS and the HTC home screen. Even after wiping the Titan completely, it's using roughly 65% of the available memory. As soon as I start the messaging app, open Outlook and then browse around in IE, the phone slows to a crawl, and flipping the keyboard out is absolutely painful. If a call comes through, it'll lag for about 4-5 seconds, then finally display the caller ID. I don't find this functionality acceptable.

I'm not saying the Titan is an awful device and HTC is an awful company (they're my favorite phone manufacturer), but you can't honestly say that you wouldn't mind better performance out of the box.
It is very unlikely that any patch issued by HTC will substantially increase the amount of available memory, as it is limited by the amount of physical memory in the device and the memory requirements of the operating system.

I have seen several posts by other users that said that HTC Home caused problems, and their Titan's performance improved significantly after uninstalling it. I also remember some saying that it required a hard reset to completely uninstall HTC Home.

edit: I don't want to have to post a video, but my Mogul fluctuates around 23.4 MB (50%) available after a soft reset with OEM 3.35, with my usual apps installed. If you are showing 35% available after a hard reset there must be a problem.

[bedoig]

Ya, HTC Home is definetly a memory hog. I really like it so I deal with it though.

I hear No2Chem's 5066 build has almost 30MB free after reboot. Might want to give it a shot.

[Foetus]

None of us have leaking contacts within the R&D of HTC. We are at the mercy to the carriers for what we have access to. It takes at least one carrier to provide the material for ROMs... Without that carrier we'd barely progress.That's disowning spin if I ever did witness. Let's be honest then -- you should have avoided insults, name-calling, bullying, and onto overt exaggeration for your NEGATIVE complaints.

Foetus, you've been all over the place. This thread could have been much more relaxing if you weren't bouncing from one extreme to another -- partisan, member insulting, and absolutely condemning extreme against HTC to your more lovey-dovey wait and see optimism of your previous post...... Toning down and rational balance could have been key.

I tend to disagree... my first post was optimistic and looking for answers. My next post was explaining my position a little more clearly. Eventually, I released THE BEAST because I felt that it was the only way to get through to that particular person. I inquired as to why someone would post in a forum they basically had no interest in, and was met with someone translating it into my being a prick and telling someone what they can and can't read. Flame-baiting, essentially... So I tailored my response accordingly. Plus, it was funny... at least to *me*. I was laughing my head off while writing that beauty. In life, you get what you give, and people love to post crap on forums without ever questioning why they do it. I find the people with the least amount to say always have the greatest amount of posts. That aside, I was immediately impressed that he didn't escalated the situation, so I changed my tone in respect. He was starting to get out of line, so I wrote a post that blew the line into little pieces. It could have either escalated or turned into a conversation... it did the latter, and I gained a bit of respect for the poster (although we still obviously disagree).

As for my negative complaints... they were about the poster's approach of the subject. As for *insults*, they were (as far as I can remember) contained in that single e-mail, and as for "toning it down"... you can't tone it down if you don't first crank it up. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that everything would have just turned into a passive-agressive argument that went nowhere if it weren't for that post.

Finally... I am *proud* of that post. I am no different in life as I am hiding behind the general anonymity of the internet. I only wish more people were like-minded. I will debate anything... when you try change what has been said to support your point of view, though, I *will* dumb it down to petty insults (with a smattering of points just in case that person is listening).

[eddiert]

... who switches from portrait to landscape on the homescreen? What would you ever have to TYPE on the homescreen?


I type at the home screen every time I want to find a contact. If you want to call Mike in your contacts simply type Mike at the home screen and the dialer comes up with Mike's contact infromation. Now if you do this while the phone is redrawing you will only get the E at the end of mike showing you all of the contacts that start with E ruining a very usefull feature. Am I the only one who sees or does this?

Ed

[bakntyme]

I type at the home screen every time I want to find a contact. If you want to call Mike in your contacts simply type Mike at the home screen and the dialer comes up with Mike's contact infromation. Now if you do this while the phone is redrawing you will only get the E at the end of mike showing you all of the contacts that start with E ruining a very usefull feature. Am I the only one who sees or does this?

EdAmazing! You won't be the only one any longer now that you have disclosed this great feature. Thanks!

[Foetus]

usefull feature. Am I the only one who sees or does this?

Ed

Not anymore! :)

[eddiert]

Actually I just flashed the No2Chem 5066 rom this morning with a 9mb pagepool (from a DCD 3.04 with default pagepool) and the rotate speed seems much faster. I no longer have to wait to start typing.

[Asphyx]

Wait for the carrier? Have you even heard of DCD? :)

Honestly, people always seem to take the negative outlook. "Never" was claimed for Rev A. "Never" was claimed for the GPS... I'm sure HTC will strike a balance somewhere along the road. Although HTC would love to see people upgrade to the next version of their phones, they know there's plenty of competition out there if they tick off too many customers.

Honestly, if the patch never comes out, and Sprint only gets HTC products for their WM phone solutions, I will most likely dump Sprint when the time comes to upgrade... but I'm fairly confident that either HTC will release the patch (*not* the acceleration everyone seems to think I am waiting for) to improve performance eventually.

Sure I have I run his Roms all the time...
Did you know that DCD is limited in features he can incorporate by what is already released for other units?
We have 6.1 because it was released for another device...
We would not have the GPS upgrade if not for a leaked (and buggy) Radio release or the official Radio release from Sprint and Alltell!

This is a driver issue...only one place in the world can fix it...HTC!
And they are not going to waste more time on a driver for a phone someone already paid for! The only reason we have GPS enabled is because someone screwed up at HTC and said they were going to enable GPS and RevA.

Class Action!

When you see a notice on the HTC site that they are going to make a more efficient Video Driver you might have a shot! By the time it is released you will probably already have upgraded to some other unit with 128 Megs of Ram and a much better Video Driver!

But you won't be able to cobble together a ROM by stealing a driver from some other unit and expect it to work.

I look at this thread in the same way I look at the Ram upgrade thread...

Wishfull thinking!

Never going to happen!

[Asphyx]

I type at the home screen every time I want to find a contact. If you want to call Mike in your contacts simply type Mike at the home screen and the dialer comes up with Mike's contact infromation. Now if you do this while the phone is redrawing you will only get the E at the end of mike showing you all of the contacts that start with E ruining a very usefull feature. Am I the only one who sees or does this?

Ed

I'll bet if you cooked a rom without the slidesound you would find that you have a much faster response...

Here is the issue...
The redraw is slowed by a bunch of things when you slide...
First it rotates the screen...Total Redraw as opposed to a simple update...
Second it tries to play a sound...
Third it checks if it is supposed to light the keyboard...
Fourth is has to find the place you want to type again...

Awful lot to do efficiently when you are running a device that has about 10-15 megs of operating ram left...

[eddiert]

I'll bet if you cooked a rom without the slidesound you would find that you have a much faster response...
The rom I'm running now has slidesound (although I disable it most of the time it doesn't seem to matter) and it still seems to rotate faster and solve the problem. It happened on every rom I ran previously (which was the Stock Verizon, many different DCD roms, and a No2Chem 5060.)
Maybe a quick little poll on how many people have the issue if we're not getting off topic. Not that that's been a problem so far in this thread. :D
The new rom that I am running now (No2Chem 5066) claims to run a different kernel (which is how it frees up so much more ram I think.)

[Asphyx]

I have found (by flashing at least 50 permutations of different ROMs here) that the key to a smooth operating device is to limit as much as possible the amount of background programs that run.

Even with Slidesound disabled (via config) there is a program running to check when you slide it open and then checks the config for what to do. Despite being disabled it takes up CPU and Program Memory.

Don't cook it in and you remove all that baggage which leaves room for more thing to operate smoothly.

But there is only so much you can remove before the device becomes useless...

So you really have to weed through all the apps you actually use and try to get rid of the rest.

IE: I recently got DCD's 3.04 pretty much the way I wanted it. I installed SPB Phone Suite as it has all the messaging notifiers, Sound Profile and even a picture Dialer in it. That made my Phone profiles OEM pointless...I'm going to reflas without it so I don't have two programs doing the same thing running in the background.

If you are dilligent in removing programs you really don't need you will see a remarkable increase in the smoothness of device operation and the screen update will not be an issue!

[Foetus]

Taken from htcclassaction.org, and it's only referring to the TyTN II... but it's *something*.


All About Phones [Dutch] also reports they were told by HTC there will be a ROM update for the TyTN II. From the page (translated from Dutch to English):

Q (All About Phones): What about the driver/rom-update for the TyTN II and other pda's by HTC ?

A (Mark Moons, HTC): I can confirm we will release a ROM-update for the TyTN II this month which will solve and improve most issues. This will also be a 6.1 update so the TyTN II will be completely up to date. I cannot confirm this for other devices.

All About Phones [Dutch] also states a source close to both All About Phones and HTC claims this update will contain hardware-accelerated drivers. According to that source, HTC has finally licensed it from Qualcomm.

[chaonatic]

Looks like that update for the TyTN II has been released and has the video acceleration fix included:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/24/windows-mobile-6-1-update-for-htc-tytn-ii-now-extra-official/

Hopefully they'll soon correct the issue for our Titans as well.

[loddvs]

Looks like that update for the TyTN II has been released and has the video acceleration fix included:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/24/windows-mobile-6-1-update-for-htc-tytn-ii-now-extra-official/

Hopefully they'll soon correct the issue for our Titans as well.

HTC confirmed that there are fixes to speed up the video, but it does NOT add hardware video acceleration.

We still don't have the driver for hardware acceleration even though the TyTN II update "addresses" the slow video problem.