VGA Driver issue

[Blackfire]

I will also order my diamond bud am affraid it wil have the same VGA driver problem like other qualcomm devices. New rom 6.1 for kaiser isn't including the driver, so this realy dissepoints me. :)

[Mauser.NET]

I don't think the Diamond will have the "driver problem". From what I've heard the Diamond even has some kind of accelerated graphics to entertain us with its lovely 480x640 screen :-)
I saw this on one of the youtube video's of the presentation of the device.

[badaas]

Vibrant TouchFLO 3D user interface, responding perfectly to your finger gestures when scrolling through contacts, browsing the web, and launching media… all vividly displayed as photos and artwork powered by the 3D graphics processor.

from htcdirect specs

[Dark Fire]

Yeah, all of the evidence so far suggests that the Touch Diamond will have no driver problems. HTC would have to be quite silly to have driver problems on their flagship device.

[imranbashir_uk]

Hold up, I don’t think this is their flagship device, it’s targeted at the consumer market rather than at the business market, although there will be some overlap of customers.

Nonetheless, still true that the driver issue effecting other devices won’t be seen on this device.

[Dark Fire]

http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=48976

"Singapore – 22 May, 2008 – HTC Corp. (TAIEX: 2498; “HTC”), the world's leading provider of Microsoft® Windows Mobile® smart devices, today unveiled its new flagship phone, the HTC Touch Diamond."

[japher]

Vibrant TouchFLO 3D user interface, responding perfectly to your finger gestures when scrolling through contacts, browsing the web, and launching media… all vividly displayed as photos and artwork powered by the 3D graphics processor.

from htcdirect specs

What we've learned from the TyTN II: Don't trust HTC marketing literature.

all of the evidence so far suggests that the Touch Diamond will have no driver problems. HTC would have to be quite silly to have driver problems on their flagship device.


The TyTN II was a flagship device that had driver problems. I'm also a bit worried by the current stock of youtube vids. Checkout some of the laggy graphics on this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoaXA9un7YE [web browsing, around 2:40]

My prediction: The graphics performance of the Diamond will be a vast improvement on the recent HTC devices (TyTN II, Touch, etc), but will not be as good as other modern competitors.

Sorry, maybe I'm just a pessimist. Does anyone have a youtube vid to prove me wrong??

[imranbashir_uk]

http://www.htc.com/www/press.aspx?id=48976

"Singapore – 22 May, 2008 – HTC Corp. (TAIEX: 2498; “HTC”), the world's leading provider of Microsoft® Windows Mobile® smart devices, today unveiled its new flagship phone, the HTC Touch Diamond."


Have a look at the launch event, towards the end at the Q&A session (time elapsed 55:15) on the link below:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-659165136464823794&q=msmobiles.com+site%3Agoogle.com&ei=Ov83SImsNYGkigKglIFU&hl=en

It is a consumer oriented device, now it maybe their flagship consumer device, replacing the original HTC touch, but it is too limited to be their top of the range high end device, as such its priced accordingly.

That’s not to say it’s not a great device, and I will certainly be in line to buy one of the first ones once released to replace my ageing XDA Orbit

[Dark Fire]

To be fair, they do overload it a bit while browsing the web, by zooming in and out and rotating it a lot. The device is only designed to work well when used reasonably.

By the way, the only evidence that I can find of the TyTN II being a flagship device is unofficial.

[swordfish2009]

we wil only know after its out to market..

[rorydaredkign]

the tytn II was undoubtedly the flagship device of late 2007, they may not have explicitly said that, but its pretty obvious.
but anyways its getting a bit off topic here... but i really doubt that itll have driver problems, why would they kick themselves in the balls again?
Rory

[Dark Fire]

Sorry, this is random, but I've just thought about that and I have come to the conclusion that kicking yourself in that area is actually pretty difficult (or maybe impossible). Hopefully HTC will find that it is similarly hard to make driver problems again.

And I'm still not convinced by this flagshipness - the flagship product(s) are normally the main feature on the HTC home page. As far as I'm aware, the Touch Family has controlled the home page for ages.

[imranbashir_uk]

Flagship is just a marketing term use it how you will. If it make you ‘feel’ better that you own the company’s’ flagship product then so be it.

However, I must point out that there are many phones that equal or surpass this phone in terms of hardware without a problem. The only advantage this has is its form factor. The phone is designed as a style statement, like its name it’s all about the BLING BLING. Even the CEO says it’s a phone that you will be proud to show your mates and take to the pub.

For me personally a flagship phone is like the Nokia 8000 series (8600, 8800, etc...) or the new SonyEricsson Xperia X1. A premium device or one that is technically far more advanced that anything that manufacturer has ever produced before.

[TehPenguin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoaXA9un7YE [web browsing, around 2:40]


Web Browsing is likely to be very Processor intensive, not Graphics chip

Personally, I think that the Diamond won't have the 3D driver issue. This is backed up by the benchmarks is got in CorePlayer (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobile-review.com%2Fpda%2Freview%2Fhtc-touch-diamond-fpr.shtml&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ru&tl=en) (Near the bottom, sorry for the auto-translate) - (Spoiler, it could play a VGA (640x480) 1.5mbps XVid video at 106% of actual speed)

[banesi]

...A premium device or one that is technically far more advanced that anything that manufacturer has ever produced before.

lol, you must be joking, this device is so advance in such a small package it will be hard to beat this year by anyone, it sure is a flagship device unlike Kaiser, which is just like caring a brick in your pocket, just awfull

[Dark Fire]

lol, you must be joking, this device is so advance in such a small package it will be hard to beat this year by anyone, it sure is a flagship device unlike Kaiser, which is just like caring a brick in your pocket, just awfull

I completely agree. :)
Flagship devices are not the most powerful devices out there. I can hardly see HTC bolting a phone to the side of a laptop and calling it their flagship device. Exactly which devices are flagship devices is up to HTC. Lately they've been keen on their Touch family, so they're all flagship devices.

If you really want to generalise it, flagship devices are normally:
1. One of the best devices in terms of specification compared to size (so the Touch Diamond destroys huge devices like the Athena).
2. Very stylish. The members of the Touch family all have unique and memorable looks. The Kaiser is generic and (consequently) unmemorable.

[rorydaredkign]

going slightly off topic, maybe you should go discuss the meaning of flagship devices in off topic?
because im bored and this is slightly interesting, i made a poll in OFF-TOPIC http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394942

[walshieau]

this thread should be closed, because "we" all know this wont have a 3D driver issue....

[rorydaredkign]

i totally agree

[Dark Fire]

I've agreed from the start. Where are the people with appropriate powers when you need them?

[imranbashir_uk]

lol, you must be joking, this device is so advance in such a small package it will be hard to beat this year by anyone, it sure is a flagship device unlike Kaiser, which is just like caring a brick in your pocket, just awfull

What are you talking about? Excluding size, I can give you a list of phone equivalent to the Diamond or better.

Let’s start with the upcoming Xperia X1, which is better than the Diamond, has a larger screen, higher resolution WVGA, more RAM 256MB, a memory slot, bigger battery a slide out keyboard, same chipset, and is still smaller than XDA Orbit 2.
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1117

The Eten V900:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1080
even better because of DVBH and DVBT

The Gigabyte MS808
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=1128
with a kick ass processor, the new Marvel PXA310.

If the keyboard is an issue, we'll you've got

Toshiba G920 and the G910:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=999&view=1

The iMate Ultimate 9502
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=909
Its got video out as well

Looking at phones with a lesser Mpix but better specs for a business user

The iMate 8150/6150
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=719

They’ve got TV out, graphics support from the Nvidia GPU, USB Host, a decent 2Mpix snapper.

[fraudulent]

I dont think the hardware specs are quite as important as the user experience. There are a lot of iPhone fans out there but very few of them read the tech specs. They are fanatical about the user experience.

Clearly HTC Touch Diamond is designed as an iPhone competitor. HTC wants to beat the iPhone on Apple's home turf.

Look at cars. For years and years competing in the automotive industry was about specs and features. In some respects it still is but you sell very few cars by advertising what alloy the suspension is made of. Some will pay attention to that sort of thing but not the mass market.

[rorydaredkign]

yep, the x1 is on equal ground in my opinion. does it have 256 ram? i always thought it was 128.
if it is 256, i think my diamond will be getting traded in for one, because of the keyboard too. [im gona get an ext keyboard for it]. plus the bigger res screen, and the fact that it supposedly has hardware acceleration means touchflo 3d will probably be ported to it. so win-win
these two devices are the two of 2008, that between them theres nothing missing [except usb host which i never use]

[imranbashir_uk]

@rorydaredkign,

The new revised whitepaper from SonyEricsson states the RAM has been upgraded to 256MB, so straight from the horse’s mouth.

@ fraudulent,

TouchFLO 3D is nothing more than a today plug in, so cooked ROMs can port that over to any phone, in terms of Xperia X1, its marketed as their premium device with a premium user experience, it’s using a panels concept which has the potential to be very smart.

Point is that this device is not advanced at all as suggested by banesi, no point in putting it on a pedestal. Everything it has got hardware wise has been done before.

Now in terms of flagship, well clearly different people have different views on this as you can tell from my views and Dark Fire’s views.

[Dark Fire]

What are you talking about? Excluding size, I can give you a list of phone equivalent to the Diamond or better.


Their whole point is that size and features are equally important.

yep, the x1 is on equal ground in my opinion. does it have 256 ram? i always thought it was 128.
if it is 256, i think my diamond will be getting traded in for one, because of the keyboard too. [im gona get an ext keyboard for it]. plus the bigger res screen, and the fact that it supposedly has hardware acceleration means touchflo 3d will probably be ported to it. so win-win
these two devices are the two of 2008, that between them theres nothing missing [except usb host which i never use]

Dah...You and your keyboards. That X1 is just rubbish in my opinion - I'd even rather have the huge devices with detatchable keyboards, like the Athena.

Oh, and the flagship argument is going on elsewhere now.

[rorydaredkign]

the diamond does have 192 ram, soit is better than any other in that respect. but apart form that, its all been done [and maybe better] before.
and wow at 256 ram, but why that much, ive never used up teh 128 on my athena, which boots with about 70 on soft reset.. maybe the panels use an amazing amount of ram. or maybe theyre working on android behind the scenes and want it to be the best android device...[sorry to go off topic :P]
Rory

[imranbashir_uk]

That X1 is just rubbish in my opinion
Oh, and the flagship argument is going on elsewhere now.

LOL, what a great and well constructed argument against the X1!

It’s virtually the same device as the Touch Diamond, apart from the fact that the X1 has a better screen, more RAM, camera light, better battery, worldwide coverage, and expandable memory to name just a few advantages. It’s the same size as my orbit, and that’s with the keybord!

[sedde]

actually i am thinking of getting the x1, but the thing is that if cookers is gonna start messing with it, or yet again i can teach myself how to cook hehe

[Cyrus Kourosh]

Here one graphics from coreplayer video testing (Diamond VGA vs. Glofiish M800 VGA)
http://www.mobinaute.com/141206-premiers-tests-smartphone-htc-touch-diamond.html

http://img.neteco.com/photo/01338906.jpg

[Dark Fire]

LOL, what a great and well constructed argument against the X1!

It’s virtually the same device as the Touch Diamond, apart from the fact that the X1 has a better screen, more RAM, camera light, better battery, worldwide coverage, and expandable memory to name just a few advantages. It’s the same size as my orbit, and that’s with the keybord!

For me, size is immensely important, and that means no keyboard. Also, I don't need worldwide coverage. Rory will probably be able to tell you more of my reasons, as we argue over whether keyboardless devices are better or not, all of the time.

the diamond does have 192 ram, soit is better than any other in that respect. but apart form that, its all been done [and maybe better] before.
and wow at 256 ram, but why that much, ive never used up teh 128 on my athena, which boots with about 70 on soft reset.. maybe the panels use an amazing amount of ram. or maybe theyre working on android behind the scenes and want it to be the best android device...[sorry to go off topic :P]
Rory

Yeah, I think that the panels do use an amazing amount of RAM. Personally, I rarely have problems with the 64MB limit on my Touch. The only program combination I've used which is unstable is IE, WLM and WMP.

[rorydaredkign]

damn, those are great coreplayer benchmarks, and mark you have no backing at all about the large ram usage of the xperia panels..

[Cyrus Kourosh]

the diamond does have 192 ram, soit is better than any other in that respect. but apart form that, its all been done [and maybe better] before.
and wow at 256 ram, but why that much, ive never used up teh 128 on my athena, which boots with about 70 on soft reset.. maybe the panels use an amazing amount of ram. or maybe theyre working on android behind the scenes and want it to be the best android device...[sorry to go off topic :P]
Rory

Yeah, I think that the panels do use an amazing amount of RAM. Personally, I rarely have problems with the 64MB limit on my Touch. The only program combination I've used which is unstable is IE, WLM and WMP.

Actually for the Diamond 192Mo ram
and 90Mo ram is remaining for the user.
Seems that Touch flow 3D needs 20-30 Mo

[Dark Fire]

We were talking about the X1, but that's useful information anyway. That's a lot of RAM to mess about with. :p

[imranbashir_uk]

the diamond does have 192 ram, soit is better than any other in that respect. but apart form that, its all been done [and maybe better] before.
and wow at 256 ram, but why that much, ive never used up teh 128 on my athena, which boots with about 70 on soft reset.. maybe the panels use an amazing amount of ram. or maybe theyre working on android behind the scenes and want it to be the best android device...[sorry to go off topic :P]
Rory

They might be prepping the phones for the upcoming WM7 upgrade, also Web browsing using Opera 9 is going to be resource hungry

After a reset on the diamond, the device takes ages to load up the TouchFlo 3D plugin. I saw it compared to an O2 Orbit 2 reset at the same time I can’t imagine how much memory it uses, must be a large amount though.

[imranbashir_uk]

For me, size is immensely important, and that means no keyboard.

Just because you don’t need a keyboard that doesn’t make the Xperia X1 a rubbish device. Also if size is the most important thing for you well I suggest you save some cash and get the Neonode N2 instead :)
http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2007/07/02/neonode-n2-mobile-phone-bored-of-the-iphone/

[Dark Fire]

Just because you don’t need a keyboard that doesn’t make the Xperia X1 a rubbish device.

That X1 is just rubbish in my opinion...

You always have to look for a non-existent problem, don't you? I clearly don't want a keyboard, so any device with a keyboard is rubbish to me.

And I didn't say what size is important to me. Obviously there are upper and lower limits. I think the Touch and Touch Diamond are about right.

[Pawel062]

mods need to close this topic ASAP. its getting of topic and was never needed.

the device has the acceleration. touchflo 3d would never work on it(well it would but would be extremely slow as we all saw when we tried the very early version) without the drivers.

now to those with the thinking that the today plugin will easily put on any device.... what u been smoking? :p it needs the proper acceleration drivers for it to work properly. won't be as easy as you think. will be near impossible if you dont have the drivers from the diamond already on the device or someone working on making the drivers work on your device.

[imranbashir_uk]

I clearly don't want a keyboard, so any device with a keyboard is rubbish to me.


Maybe your choice of words could have been more clear, for example if you said that the keyboard on the X1 is of no use to you rather than:


That X1 is just rubbish


People wouldn’t have got confused, sweeping statements like that will annoy people.

[Dark Fire]

People didn't get confused. You did. And either quote the sentence in full or don't quote it - the second half of the sentence clearly implies the reason for my opinion.

And I hope I do annoy people. Keyboards are old and I do not like people's attachment to them, because they delaying the keyboard's inevitable demise.

[imranbashir_uk]

Here one graphics from coreplayer video testing (Diamond VGA vs. Glofiish M800 VGA)
http://www.mobinaute.com/141206-premiers-tests-smartphone-htc-touch-diamond.html

http://img.neteco.com/photo/01338906.jpg

So exactly what is the point of this benchmark?

Its comparing the Qualcomm MSM7201A chipset with graphics acceleration enabled in firmware of the HTC Diamond, with the Samsung SC32442 chipset on the M800 that doesn’t have any graphics acceleration. Using a version of core player that can fully utilise the graphic acceleration of the Qualcomm chipset.

The end result being the Diamond is better at decoding video Duh!

I’m not even going to mention the fact that the Diamond has more than twice the amount of RAM as the M800. If your going to look at pointless comparisons like this why not compare the Diamond with the Dell X51v.

But hey, I’m sure that really long line on that graph made you feel good, because that’s all that matters right!

[imranbashir_uk]

People didn't get confused. You did. And either quote the sentence in full or don't quote it - the second half of the sentence clearly implies the reason for my opinion.

And I hope I do annoy people. Keyboards are old and I do not like people's attachment to them, because they delaying the keyboard's inevitable demise.

LOL, go and post that in this forum:
http://www.esato.com/board/bookmarks.php?topic=164743&action=add&start=0
Or in the TyTn II forum, I’m sure people will give you plenty of reasons why they need a keyboard. Personally I’m currently using a device without a keyboard at the moment, and as I’m getting the Diamond, my next device will also not have a keyboard, it’s a trade off I’m willing to make.

But at least I have an open enough mind to acknowledge why keyboards are useful and indeed sometimes necessary.

[imranbashir_uk]

mods need to close this topic ASAP. its getting of topic and was never needed.

the device has the acceleration. touchflo 3d would never work on it(well it would but would be extremely slow as we all saw when we tried the very early version) without the drivers.

now to those with the thinking that the today plugin will easily put on any device.... what u been smoking? :p it needs the proper acceleration drivers for it to work properly. won't be as easy as you think. will be near impossible if you dont have the drivers from the diamond already on the device or someone working on making the drivers work on your device.


My understanding is that, any Qualcomm chipset that has the graphics acceleration feature of the chipset enabled in firmware will happily run the TouchFlo 3D plugin. On the Xperia X1 as the screen is 800x480 you will have an additional 160 pixel lines to add other items to your home screen :)

[Dark Fire]

LOL, go and post that in this forum:
http://www.esato.com/board/bookmarks.php?topic=164743&action=add&start=0
Or in the TyTn II forum, I’m sure people will give you plenty of reasons why they need a keyboard. Personally I’m currently using a device without a keyboard at the moment, and as I’m getting the Diamond, my next device will also not have a keyboard, it’s a trade off I’m willing to make.

But at least I have an open enough mind to acknowledge why keyboards are useful and indeed sometimes necessary.

I am normally open minded, but Rory (who is a keyboard fan) has only managed to come up with one reason for keyboards being necessary, rather than a waste of space. His reason is people with retarded/fat fingers can't use on-screen keyboards.

And I have no reason to post on those forums: I know I'm right. Apple haven't yet produced a phone with a keyboard or keypad, and HTC's flagship family is the Touch family - three members of which have very few physical buttons, and one of which has a keypad (or something halfway between a keypad and a keyboard).

[rorydaredkign]

oh just shut up.
for god's sake some people like keyboards some dont, but like imranbashir_uk said, ill make the trade off. i am getting an external one though. what mark doesnt understand is real vga makes things a quarter of the size [half the height and width] so an onscreen keyboard is useless. when i said this, he said something like get a good keyboard then. my answer: there arent any. his answer:make one
he often says random crap like this, and says he is glad he annoys people, but please ignore him

[walshieau]

and as i said before, this thread needs to be locked


Its getting off Topic "VGA Driver Issue"
Its pointless as "we" all know it wont have an issue.

[Dark Fire]

and as i said before, this thread needs to be locked


Its getting off Topic "VGA Driver Issue"
Its pointless as "we" all know it wont have an issue.


We all agreed ages ago that it needed to be locked.

And Rory, you know I would make one to prove you wrong. I'm that sort of person.

[rorydaredkign]

please do then. and before its released.

[Dark Fire]

please do then. and before its released.

You know that this is the wrong side of exams to ask me to do something like that. I'll start using my Touch Diamond properly after the exams, and I'll worry about the keyboard then.

Of course, a financial incentive would speed things up.

[imranbashir_uk]

he often says random crap like this, and says he is glad he annoys people, but please ignore him

I think I’m going to have to start to ignore him. His comments are really very immature, not well thought out and certainly lack any justification thereby ruining his credibility.

I am normally open minded, but Rory (who is a keyboard fan) has only managed to come up with one reason for keyboards being necessary, rather than a waste of space. His reason is people with retarded/fat fingers can't use on-screen keyboards.


They are faster, easier, more reliable, and more importantly, people like and enjoy the tactile feedback of keyboards / keypads. Until haptic screens become a reality this won’t change, even after haptic it might not change. Similar to why vinyl’s are still being made and sold, even in this day and age of MP3’s and why books are printed and sold, when you can have e-book readers, and why datasheets are printed out, rather than viewed through acrobat reader – Tactile feedback.

Also, how very nice of you to call people with fat fingers retarded!


And I have no reason to post on those forums: I know I'm right. Apple haven't yet produced a phone with a keyboard or keypad, and HTC's flagship family is the Touch family - three members of which have very few physical buttons, and one of which has a keypad (or something halfway between a keypad and a keyboard).

Apple has only produced one phone! So your comment is based on a sample of one which is silly.

It’s still not a logical argument, saying that as most of HTC’s touch range doesn’t have a keypad / keyboard its validating my argument that there pointless. I could equally say that all of HTC’s TyTn range has keyboards, and all blackberry’s keyboards so my argument must be right.

The touch dual has a keypad, as you rightly spotted, the next device the touch diamond pro / duo will have a slide out qwerty keyboard, so pretty much even stevens in that sense too.

Your off to uni, so time for you to grow up, or at least put up credible justification behind your arguments.

And Rory, you know I would make one to prove you wrong. I'm that sort of person.

Case and point!

[imranbashir_uk]

Oh and as for those pointless benchmarks posted earlier, here are some sensible benchmarks, enjoy...

CPU
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine1.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine2.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine3.gif

[imranbashir_uk]

File System
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine4.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine5.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine6.gif

[imranbashir_uk]

Graphics
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine7.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine8.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine9.gif

This one is a bit misleading. Only compare VGA with VGA and QVGA with QVGA, also some of the integrated graphics accelerators are not supported by SPB Benchmark.

[imranbashir_uk]

Overall Index
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine10.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine11.gif
http://www.solopalmari.com/images/stories/008/05/diamond/bench/Immagine12.gif

For people interested in seeing the original article click on the link below:

http://www.solopalmari.com/content/view/4985/298/

[walshieau]

yes we all know you can copy and paste imranbashir_uk so in future just post the link of the site where you got the images from...

[imranbashir_uk]

yes we all know you can copy and paste imranbashir_uk so in future just post the link of the site where you got the images from...

Honestly, can’t please some people, I try to bring the thread back towards the original topic and you go and start commenting about my cutting and pasting abilities!

Didn’t break any forum rules, posting allows for embedding pictures, pictures are relevant and not off topic, what’s your issue, a slow internet connection?

[walshieau]

Honestly, can’t please some people, I try to bring the thread back towards the original topic and you go and start commenting about my cutting and pasting abilities!

Didn’t break any forum rules, posting allows for embedding pictures, pictures are relevant and not off topic, what’s your issue, a slow internet connection?

no rule breaking but you just wasted two pages in images....

[rorydaredkign]

interesting...
the first two images suggest its an athena but very slightly worse and way smaller obviously. and the final index says its better!! not bad at all
Rory

[flashmp3]

Waisted?! Don't react like that. I appreciated he posted that instead of just give us the link. Thanks to that we have the comparison in our forum and we'll be able to find it even if the source is dead.....I don't understand your reaction. Be cool man it was based on a good idea. He wasn't stilling some information to put it on his website, he was just sharing with us. It's the purpose of a forum

[imranbashir_uk]

Waisted?! Don't react like that. I appreciated he posted that instead of just give us the link. Thanks to that we have the comparison in our forum and we'll be able to find it even if the source is dead.....I don't understand your reaction. Be cool man it was based on a good idea. He wasn't stilling some information to put it on his website, he was just sharing with us. It's the purpose of a forum

Well said,

Thankyou...

[s1rl4ncel0t]

Thank you for those images imranbashir_uk.

Don't listen to the silly things others tell you. Of course it's better to have the images inside the forum, than a link to some other page.




Thanks again imranbashir_uk ;)

[vaxick]

I dont think the hardware specs are quite as important as the user experience. There are a lot of iPhone fans out there but very few of them read the tech specs. They are fanatical about the user experience.

Clearly HTC Touch Diamond is designed as an iPhone competitor. HTC wants to beat the iPhone on Apple's home turf.

Look at cars. For years and years competing in the automotive industry was about specs and features. In some respects it still is but you sell very few cars by advertising what alloy the suspension is made of. Some will pay attention to that sort of thing but not the mass market.

HTC already skimmed over much of the crowd who is looking for a iPhone type phone by including Windows Mobile on it. And really, as pretty as the interface looks on the Diamond, it isn't efficient as the iPhone that lists all its primary applications on the home screen in a good looking interface. You could argue all you want that you can get that same experience on the Diamond, but the average user isn't going to want to have to deal with spending their time scouring the net trying to figure out what to tweak to make their Windows Mobile experience suit their wants. Plus it will never be as finger friendly as other touch style phones on the market.

[Dark Fire]

I think I’m going to have to start to ignore him. His comments are really very immature, not well thought out and certainly lack any justification thereby ruining his credibility.
I have more credibility than you. I've shown your arguments to be prejudgemental rubbish that hasn't been justified or thought through so far. And would you just ask Rory about this stuff. I've had these arguments with him before, so he can give you a summary. This is wasting my time. (Yes, I'm in a bad mood, because I replied to this once, and the reply hasn't appeared).

They are faster, easier, more reliable, and more importantly, people like and enjoy the tactile feedback of keyboards / keypads. Until haptic screens become a reality this won’t change, even after haptic it might not change. Similar to why vinyl’s are still being made and sold, even in this day and age of MP3’s and why books are printed and sold, when you can have e-book readers, and why datasheets are printed out, rather than viewed through acrobat reader – Tactile feedback.
They are faster, easier and more reliable to people who are used to keyboards on these devices. The general public are not used to them, and it's the general public that will matter as these devices become more common.

Case and point!
WTF? Rory does this sometimes - he says random stuff and runs off...


Also, how very nice of you to call people with fat fingers retarded!

I said people who are retarded or ('/') people with fat fingers.

Apple has only produced one phone! So your comment is based on a sample of one which is silly.
Apple appear to be sticking to a single line of phones, unlike HTC. I can't see Apple sticking in a keyboard, because that would defeat the very purpose of their phone. Also, I haven't heard any rumors about a keyboard in the 3G iPhone, so I'm counting it as two phones compared to four.

It’s still not a logical argument, saying that as most of HTC’s touch range doesn’t have a keypad / keyboard its validating my argument that there pointless. I could equally say that all of HTC’s TyTn range has keyboards, and all blackberry’s keyboards so my argument must be right.
It is a logical argument. You're making it illogical with your replies which don't even make sense. Here's a simpler way to put it: Consider a graph of the proportion of phones produced that have keyboards over time. Obviously that proportion has grown over the years. Now consider what has happened to that proportion with the introduction of the Touch family and iPhone. It has obviously begun to decline sharply. Very sharply...and that decline will only get faster as the battle between HTC and Apple continues.

The touch dual has a keypad, as you rightly spotted, the next device the touch diamond pro / duo will have a slide out qwerty keyboard, so pretty much even stevens in that sense too.

No...That's three without anything, one with a keypad and one with a keyboard. That's 3-1-1.


Your off to uni, so time for you to grow up, or at least put up credible justification behind your arguments.

You're the one who is amazing me with your lack of justification. I could reference my posts like a Wikipedia article, but you just come up with random stuff.

[Dark Fire]

HTC already skimmed over much of the crowd who is looking for a iPhone type phone by including Windows Mobile on it. And really, as pretty as the interface looks on the Diamond, it isn't efficient as the iPhone that lists all its primary applications on the home screen in a good looking interface. You could argue all you want that you can get that same experience on the Diamond, but the average user isn't going to want to have to deal with spending their time scouring the net trying to figure out what to tweak to make their Windows Mobile experience suit their wants. Plus it will never be as finger friendly as other touch style phones on the market.

Actually, this was tested, and it was found that even on the HTC Touch things were, on average, faster to get to.

[rorydaredkign]

MARK!!!!!!!!!!
sometimes youre a great guy, sometimes youre a total twat. a total attack on a person was not called for, and you come up with random crap too. how has the introduction of the touch family and iphone made a sharp fall in the production of phones with keypads/boards?
there were last year 3 extra hardware inputless phones than the year before, excluding upgrades to phones such as eten's range of glofiish phones, [the touch, touch druise and the iphone]
however on one hand, and off the extreme tips of the hairs on my head, i can count 4 phones with keyboards, the w880i, k810i, n95, the tytn ii.
so thats such a random comment to make. you dont usually make mistakes with numbers, so we will put this down to anger and tiredness, and forget all about it.
i think most of the many many members of this forum agree that there is no battle between htc and apple. the iphone is for people who want a cool and amazingly expensive phone [personally id rather a vertu phone ut what the heck]. its marketed amazingly as all apple stuff is, and so outsold the whole smartphone market by some stupid ratio.[cant think of it right now] but plain and simple, it is essentially a normal phone which can do a bit more elegantly those things like notes and calendar which we have on our smartphones. But i have these things on my k800, so they dont make the iphone smart.
htc on the other hand, in my humble opinion have obviously seen the iphones greatness and flaws, and in the diamond made a phone to compete. [they did this too with the touch, somewhat unsuccessfully] anyway. if they wanted to make a phone to compete with apple, they would, it would be all TF3D based, and have no windows mobile. much like the viewty, which looks pretty cool but can do no more than the iphone, or similar to snapvue on the shift.
But they want us high end users to recognise what the iphone does great, and see that theyve made a phone so much better in spec, but it does all the things we love to do on our tytns, touches or wizards. officey things.
so all in all, ive waffled a bit, but htc arent, and cant compete with apple.

SO STOP BEING ABUSIVE [btw mods dont tolerate abuse]

[rorydaredkign]

Actually, this was tested, and it was found that even on the HTC Touch things were, on average, faster to get to.

this is true, some guy proved it using touchflo.

[imranbashir_uk]

@Dark Fire,

You haven’t shown any of my point to be prejudgmental or rubbish at all, my views are perfectly valid, and don’t need you endorsements.

With regards to analogue keys versus touch screens I like the way you’re trying to separate QWERTY keyboards from 20 Keypads and 12 Keypads. A key is a key, people moving over from candy bar style phones will miss the tactile feedback its as simple as that.

I wasn’t saying random stuff, the case and point statement was with regards to your comment about making a keyboard just to prove rorydaredkign wrong. Who do you think you are Macgyver? I guess you can make it at home and all you need is one small aubergine !

Yeah a sample of two is much better! Does your imaginary graph include all phones released, or just ones without keyboards, all the Nokia smart phones, SE UIQ phones, blackberries...

[Dark Fire]

MARK!!!!!!!!!!
a total attack on a person was not called for, and you come up with random crap too. how has the introduction of the touch family and iphone made a sharp fall in the production of phones with keypads/boards?...SO STOP BEING ABUSIVE [btw mods dont tolerate abuse]

Hold on there. Now you're making up stuff. I said that the proportion of phones that have keyboards is dropping. Not the number. The number is still rising, but the number of phones without is rising faster.

And how am I being abusive? I have said nothing that cruel, and I have not caused any harm. You're deliberately stirring this up now - you told me that I had replies moments before disappearing offline on WLM.


You haven’t shown any of my point to be prejudgmental or rubbish at all, my views are perfectly valid, and don’t need you endorsements.
Yes I have shown that, because if you think just a little about these things, you come up with the problems I come up with. For example:


With regards to analogue keys versus touch screens I like the way you’re trying to separate QWERTY keyboards from 20 Keypads and 12 Keypads. A key is a key, people moving over from candy bar style phones will miss the tactile feedback its as simple as that.
Indeed, a key is a key, but there's clearly a reasonable limit to the number you can put on a device before they become too small and/or the device becomes too big. The QWERTY keyboards on phones are also reasonably different to their larger counterparts, and I don't know anyone who uses a 20-key keypad (both take a lot of 'getting used to'. 12-key keypads are normally on landline phones as well as mobile phones, so nobody would have to learn to use them.

I wasn’t saying random stuff, the case and point statement was with regards to your comment about making a keyboard just to prove rorydaredkign wrong. Who do you think you are Macgyver? I guess you can make it at home and all you need is one small aubergine !
I make random software for Rory all of the time to assist his fiddling with ROMs and other stuff he does, so that is amazingly prejudgemental. I am a computer scientist - not a random person who doesn't know anything about that challenge.

Yeah a sample of two is much better! Does your imaginary graph include all phones released, or just ones without keyboards, all the Nokia smart phones, SE UIQ phones, blackberries...
The whole point of the graph is that it does. Please actually get the information and plot it. I know I'm right because until recently there weren't any touchscreen phones - now, you have to admit, there are quite a lot out there (certainly loads of iPhones, and haven't HTC sold 2 or 3 million Touches?). That's going to make a significant dent on the proportion of phones with keyboards.

So, you didn't really think through the coordination issues with the keyboard/keypad point, you've prejudged me, and you've underestimated the amount of thought that I put into that graph. Please just stop now.

Oh, and what Rory said just above proves that I do know my stuff. I do a ridiculous amount of random research.

[rorydaredkign]

mark once made a program that could help cooking roms for my hermes. i havent however had a hermes since december.
however, he does have some great software which he made.
but he is annoying, and says random things all the time, and finds even more random proof, and twists what he says the first time to allow for what you replied with as a flaw.
but i just kinda get on with not moticing now.
but a personal attack was too far.
a bigger man would have said nothing

[Dark Fire]

Hey, I was attacked too. "His comments are really very immature, not well thought out and certainly lack any justification thereby ruining his credibility."
And that's not even directly aimed at me, which is worse.

And don't tempt me to do worse Rory, please. Once again, you know I will if you push me. Just stop.

[JASTECH]

My question, what about the Nvidia chip APX 2500? Will that be used in a HTC Diamond or wait for other devices?
Would Linux be a good OS for the Diamond?
I also would like to help what I can. Thanks, JASTECH

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/02/11/nvidia-shows-off-apx-2500-cellphone-applications-processor/

[walshieau]

My question, what about the Nvidia chip APX 2500? Will that be used in a HTC Diamond or wait for other devices?
Would Linux be a good OS for the Diamond?
I also would like to help what I can. Thanks, JASTECH

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/02/11/nvidia-shows-off-apx-2500-cellphone-applications-processor/

no one knows, as the hardware has not been pulled apart yet...

[flashmp3]

HTC already skimmed over much of the crowd who is looking for a iPhone type phone by including Windows Mobile on it. And really, as pretty as the interface looks on the Diamond, it isn't efficient as the iPhone that lists all its primary applications on the home screen in a good looking interface. You could argue all you want that you can get that same experience on the Diamond, but the average user isn't going to want to have to deal with spending their time scouring the net trying to figure out what to tweak to make their Windows Mobile experience suit their wants. Plus it will never be as finger friendly as other touch style phones on the market.

Lots of people bought Iphone juste because it was made by apple. Just look in the movie. Instead of saying "mp3 player" they now say "Ipod"! It is not because of the quality, it is just because of the physical aspect and because of the advertising they made everywhere for there mp3 players and laptop. Thanks to that people would buy anything coming for apple. I owned different Ipod and remember how the sound sucks (and this also with the new Ipod touch and Iphone) and how until the G5, the battery life time was so poor. There are even people that brought suit Apple because of that!

As He said, most of people that buy Apple don't know the quarter of the technology in it. Proof:Lots of them think that Iphone is the first Handheld to provide the ability to watch a video or surf on the net! That exists since ages! Apple just had the right idea to provide all that stuff through a beautiful interface. That why I totally agree the user experience matters a lot! Diamond has this interface that permit to have all the multimedia and message applications easily. The only thing that make it won't beat Iphone is a problem of popular!

[imranbashir_uk]

What a load of nonsense, your original statement was that the X1 is rubbish and that you’d prefer a much *larger* device that had a removable keyboard. So given the choice you would go for a larger device than a smaller one with a built in keyboard (Athena Vs Xperia X1). To top it off your very next post said that *size* was immensely important which contradicts your original statement straight away.

Following on from the above, you go on to say that you clearly don’t want a keyboard so any device with a keyboard is rubbish to you. You then go on to say that keyboards are old and that you do not like people's attachment to them, because they delaying the keyboard's inevitable demise. Furthermore your next post went on to show just how arrogant your statements can be, when you said that *you know you’re right*. Apple haven't yet produced a phone with a keyboard or keypad, and that three members of the HTC have very few physical buttons. I questioned your flawed logic on the above statement due to the limited sample size.

Rather than let this argument lay to rest you decided to elaborate by describing a pointless hypothetical graph plotting the number of phones with keys vs the number of devices without. Again your flawed logic was that as the number of touch screen only devices was increasing then the number of devices with keys must be coming down. Well the market is still growing so that logic does not apply. Furthermore what I think you will find is that the number of devices with keys is growing at a faster rate than the number of devices without. So let this argument lay to rest rather than digging yourself into a deeper hole.

Moving on to a key is a key, I provided you with real and justifiable reasons why some people prefer analogue keys, amongst the examples given on was tactile feedback. You finally admitted that there’s a reasonable limit to how many keys you can put on a device before it becomes too big or too small. But by doing this you again contradicted an earlier comment that any device with a keyboard is rubbish to you. Your argument then takes another turn and you go on to compare the different keyboard layouts saying that qwerty keyboards and 20 key keypads are too different from 12 key keypads.

Well 20 key keypads are very popular in the USA and qwerty keypads are much faster to type on. Learning curve or not, the most missed feature from a touch screen only phone is tactile feedback. As such phones with some sort of keypad / keyboard will continue for the foreseeable future. I don’t need to say much more here apart from too big and too small are relative statements and not quantifiable. What maybe too big for you might be perfect for somebody else. What might be too small for you (Neonode N2) might be the perfect device for somebody else.

Finally, regarding my comment regarding Macgyver, I’m not questioning your technical ability. There was some banter between you and rorydaredkign which ended with rorydaredkign asking you to go and make him the ideal keyboard as he couldn’t buy one, to which you responded that you’d do that just to prove him wrong as that the kind of person you are. I’d like to share some words of wisdom with you. If you push down on a wooden post, it will eventually break in two however, if you push down on a freshly cut stick, it will simply bend. Think about it.
Your comment on making the keyboard just strikes me as a immature remark and not something I would expect from someone off to uni.

I would hope we can now lay this debate to rest as I’m sure the other members are by now sick of reading our arguments and counter arguments!

[imranbashir_uk]

no one knows, as the hardware has not been pulled apart yet...

Actually the Diamond is based on the Qualcomm MSM7201A chipset. This has been shown to be true by the various online videos that show the settings about page for the Diamond. The chipset has got various features integrated into the chip itself. The features are enabled by firmware at power up.

The diamond does not have a separate GPS chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate WiFi chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate 3G, HSDPA, GSM, chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate graphics chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip.

Here are just a few of the additional items built into the MSM7201A chip that haven’t been enabled on the Diamond. TV out, VGA out, USB on the Go.

[rorydaredkign]

Actually the Diamond is based on the Qualcomm MSM7201A chipset. This has been shown to be true by the various online videos that show the settings about page for the Diamond. The chipset has got various features integrated into the chip itself. The features are enabled by firmware at power up.

The diamond does not have a separate GPS chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate WiFi chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate 3G, HSDPA, GSM, chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip. It doesn’t have a separate graphics chip as it’s built into the MSM7201A chip.

Here are just a few of the additional items built into the MSM7201A chip that haven’t been enabled on the Diamond. TV out, VGA out, USB on the Go.
i dont know much about the chipset, but would you say theyre hardware disabled, ie burnt out on purpose or not connected? or software disabled, ie no drivers?
Rory

[imranbashir_uk]

i dont know much about the chipset, but would you say theyre hardware disabled, ie burnt out on purpose or not connected? or software disabled, ie no drivers?
Rory

Nothing has been burnt out. It’s all about licensing. HTC have to buy the licence for each of the feature within the chipset they want to use. The licence (code) they buy is then embedded into the firmware of the boot loader. Depending on what it is, you might need additional drivers / DLLs in software. As there is a cost implication, HTC make a judgment call on what is needed and what isn’t.

Additionally, some things such as USB to Go, require a slightly different type of connector, and a few additional discrete passive components. In the case of the diamond being Tri band, it could support quad band if all the antennas were to fit inside. To save space, reduce complexity, and reduce component count some of the chipset features wouldn’t even be routed through the PCB so even if you were able to copy the firmware blocks / drivers from another handset that has it enabled it wouldn’t go anywhere as the PCB has no tracking.

[Dark Fire]

What a load of nonsense, your original statement was that the X1 is rubbish and that you’d prefer a much *larger* device that had a removable keyboard. So given the choice you would go for a larger device than a smaller one with a built in keyboard (Athena Vs Xperia X1). To top it off your very next post said that *size* was immensely important which contradicts your original statement straight away.
If I can't get a phone that's small enough, my priorities obviously change. I shouldn't have to tell you that. Most people's priorities would change if they couldn't get the type of device they wanted. The Athena has a nice big screen.


Following on from the above, you go on to say that you clearly don’t want a keyboard so any device with a keyboard is rubbish to you. You then go on to say that keyboards are old and that you do not like people's attachment to them, because they delaying the keyboard's inevitable demise. Furthermore your next post went on to show just how arrogant your statements can be, when you said that *you know you’re right*.
Your previous posts displayed just as much arrogance. "I don't need your endorsement." If you don't, why are you continuing?


Rather than let this argument lay to rest you decided to elaborate by describing a pointless hypothetical graph plotting the number of phones with keys vs the number of devices without. Again your flawed logic was that as the number of touch screen only devices was increasing then the number of devices with keys must be coming down. Well the market is still growing so that logic does not apply.

Do you not understand the concept of proportion!? I have explicity said that the graph deals with proportion several times! Your facts are blatantly obvious, and I therefore didn't bother mentioning them - other parts of my argument are based on the fact that the market is growing! Your accusations of flawed logic are actually ridiculous.

Furthermore what I think you will find is that the number of devices with keys is growing at a faster rate than the number of devices without. So let this argument lay to rest rather than digging yourself into a deeper hole.
No. Proportionally, the nunber of touch phones is growing faster. Apple are expected to exceed their 10-million-unit-first-year goal, and HTC have sold 2 or 3 million Touches.

You finally admitted that there’s a reasonable limit to how many keys you can put on a device before it becomes too big or too small. But by doing this you again contradicted an earlier comment that any device with a keyboard is rubbish to you.

Hold on, you appear to have misunderstood plain English again (it's getting quite annoying now). I said either the device will become too big, or the keys too small (the smaller they are, the more you can put on a device). In other words, devices with more keys are harder to use. The whole reason that the general public has avoided, until recently, phones by HTC and similar companies, is because they're hard to use (and expensive). Therefore, if a device has less keys, people will be more likely to use it.

Your argument then takes another turn and you go on to compare the different keyboard layouts saying that qwerty keyboards and 20 key keypads are too different from 12 key keypads.

Well 20 key keypads are very popular in the USA and qwerty keypads are much faster to type on. Learning curve or not, the most missed feature from a touch screen only phone is tactile feedback.
I do not know much about things like that im America, but I do know that the iPhone's popularity in America has not been matched in other parts of the world. America therefore probably has seen the biggest increase in the proportion of phones with (mainly just) touchscreens.

As such phones with some sort of keypad / keyboard will continue for the foreseeable future. I don’t need to say much more here apart from too big and too small are relative statements and not quantifiable. What maybe too big for you might be perfect for somebody else. What might be too small for you (Neonode N2) might be the perfect device for somebody else.
I'm talking about the general public. Not me. If the general public thought things like the Kaiser were good, lots of people would have one now. However, more people have iPhones and Touches, so it is not unreasonable to say that the general public doesn't like keyboards.

I’d like to share some words of wisdom with you. If you push down on a wooden post, it will eventually break in two however, if you push down on a freshly cut stick, it will simply bend. Think about it.
Your comment on making the keyboard just strikes me as a immature remark and not something I would expect from someone off to uni.
Here we go with the personal attacks again. The most I've said about you is that you're prejudging me.

Everywhere you look, the latest innovations are touch-related, not keyboard-related. Even in sci-fi which, to some extent, shows what we want technology to be able to do (and also what we fear technology will do), the ability to touch is used much more than today. Sticks will bend, but bending causes damage and instability both in the short-term and long-term.


I would hope we can now lay this debate to rest as I’m sure the other members are by now sick of reading our arguments and counter arguments!
Yeah, I did ask you to stop ages ago...

[rorydaredkign]

Yeah, I did ask you to stop ages ago...

so why did u reply if u thought it was better to stop?

[imranbashir_uk]

Because he is stubborn and inflexible, like a post, and as I said before if you keep piling on the pressure on a post it will break. If he was a stick and flexible, being able to react and cope with external pressures better he would have just let this one go.

The last word has to be his, so I’m sure he will reply again there is nothing new being said so I won’t be replying any further.

[rorydaredkign]

i already said he will reply if you do, and he said put a bet on it or something. always wants to win [tiring at times]

[JASTECH]

Hmm, ok, what about the Nvidia APX 2500? I think I read it will be out late 2008 and it can go to 750mhz so that would be nice.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/apx_2500.html

Processor and Memory Subsystem ARM11 MPCore
16/32-bit LP-DDR
NOR and NAND Flash support
HD AVP (High Definition Audio Video Processor) 720p H.264, MPEG-4, and VC-1/WMV9 Decode
720p H.264 and MPEG-4 Encode
Supports multi-standard audio formats including AAC, AMR, WMA, and MP3
JPEG encode and decode acceleration
ULP (Ultra Low Power) GeForce OpenGL ES 2.0
D3D Mobile
Programmable pixel shader
Programmable vertex and lighting
CSAA support
Advanced 2D graphics
Imaging Up to 12Mpixel camera sensor support
Integrated ISP
Advanced imaging features
Display Subsystem True dual display support
720p (1280x720) HDMI 1.2 support
SXGA (1280x1024) LCD and CRT support
Composite and S-Video TV output


* NVIDIA® HD AVP (High Definition Audio Video Processor) with PureVideo® technology
o Capture or playback of HD 720p movies with your mobile device
o Unprecedented picture quality and ultra-smooth, vivid movie playback with low CPU utilization and power consumption
* Superior Imaging
o Take sharp and steady pictures with a 12MP camera with built-in image stabilization algorithm
o Integrated Image Signal Processor (ISP) with proprietary algorithms enables image and video stabilization, face tracking, and advanced trick modes
* NVDIA ULP (Ultra Low Power) GeForce® technology
o World's fastest GeForce graphics technology architected for low power applications
o Superior 3D user interface capabilities based on a unique compositing framework delivers seamless web browsing
* NVDIA nPower™ technology
o Enables the industry's longest HD video and MP3 playback on your phone
o Architected to deliver optimized system power utilization
* True dual display subsystem for flexibility of use
o Entertainment – watch a movie on an HDMI display and use your phone as a remote control device
o Business – present your proposal on a SXGA projector using your phone as a pointing device
o Personal – show your favorite photos on the television while previewing them on your phone

[rorydaredkign]

what do you mean "what about the nvidia apx 2500?"
the diamond has a qualcomm msm7201(a?) chipset
this chipset isnt even out yet..
Rory

[imranbashir_uk]

Well if we’re talking about upcoming chipsets then Qualcomm also has the snapdragon.

Technical Features

• 1GHz CPU
• 600MHz DSP
• Support for Linux® and Windows Mobile®
• WWAN, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity
• Seventh-generation gpsOne® engine for Standalone-GPS and Assisted-GPS modes, as well as gpsOneXTRATM Assistance
• High definition video decode (720P)
• 3D graphics with up to 22M triangles/sec and 133M 3D pixels/sec
• High resolution XGA display support
• 12-megapixel camera
• Support for multiple video codecs
• Audio codecs: (AAC+, eAAC+, AMR, FR, EFR, HR, WB-AMR, G.729a, G.711 , AAC stereo encode)
• Support for Broadcast TV (MediaFLOTM , DVB-H and ISDB-T)
• Fully tested, highly-integrated solution including baseband, software, RF, PMIC, Bluetooth, Broadcast & Wi-Fi


That coupled with a WM7 device in a form factor similar to the Diamond would be hard to beat!

[Dark Fire]

:p
That's really good. I want one now! :)

[rorydaredkign]

its basically a umpc in a tiny phone. but will porbably end up being like umpcs were at first, really expensive and just proof of concept.

[imranbashir_uk]

its basically a umpc in a tiny phone. but will porbably end up being like umpcs were at first, really expensive and just proof of concept.

Are you talking about Qualcomms reference design. Don’t worry about that, it wont ever be for sale, all chipset manufacturers do that, they also have very large test boards that allow you to probe busses with scopes and network analysers. So you can debug code, etc...

Manufacturers such as HTC use them all the time, it reduces development time and cost as you have a reference design to work from as a starting point.

[JontyJonty]

I will also order my diamond bud am affraid it wil have the same VGA driver problem like other qualcomm devices. New rom 6.1 for kaiser isn't including the driver, so this realy dissepoints me. :)

I can confirm having seen one that the graphics chips have all the correct drivers - fully updated. The graphocs on the device i used for a hour or so were excellent considering it was a Alpha device...

[JASTECH]

rory, sense the debate on lack of drivers on those devices I figured with Nvidia being such a huge graphics chip company that there chip might have better support. I don't know myself if I and my wife should wait for the Diamond/Raphael in a couple months or maybe better to wait for APX 2500 chip in a unit or the Qualcom Snapdragon. Sorry I was not clear, some days my pain meds get the best of me and I don't think straight. Thanks, JASTECH

[Scribe]

Given that no major APX announcements have been made it may be fair to assume it's running behind schedule, especially given a lot of manufacturing woes nVidia have been having lately.

The touch diamond etc were advertised long before release and yet you can barely find a news item on a phone using the new APX at the moment.

I also expect these devices to be much larger PDA style phones, unlike the very compact diamond. I assume this partly from pictures and also from knowing it's going to take a pretty large and heavy battery to power the chipset in these early unrefined stages. Not to mention the hardware isn't currently around to make use of its power yet (denser high res high colour screens, compact high quality lenses ie the 8mp samsung lens is quite big).

I'm personally going to get myself the touch pro for now, because even though the APX2500 has me very interested, I expect I will be left waiting for quite a while and who knows, by the time it shows itself I may be able to afford one aswel.