so who's switching to the new iphone in a month?

[bigboyhf]

Seems like 3G iphone is ready for delivery. I wonder if it has GPS as well. That could very well make it something to consider as an alternative to the Kaiser... I love my Kaiser, but my wife has an iphone and it does do certain things better. With Jailbreak, there are plenty of cool apps too. I even found a voice command app. Pretty much fill most of the gaps...

[bapssystupr3m3]

but it still doesnt have the hardware qwerty keyboard for me and i'm not a iphone fanboy...just me though

[djshmack]

I'll jump ship to the iphone if they update their browser to support flash. i'm still disappointed that after all this time (deepfish, opera 9.5 beta) their isnt a comparable browser out there for windows mobile. Opera mini is really good, but not as good as it could get

[redbandana]

Steve Jobs is going to have a press conference on monday 6/9 (which is today for some users). I hear that at&t were able to get him to commit to release the new iphone at $199.99 w/2 year contract.

[AllTheWay]

Steve Jobs is going to have a press conference on monday 6/9 (which is today for some users). I hear that at&t were able to get him to commit to release the new iphone at $199.99 w/2 year contract.

If that's true...I will certainly buy one for that price...for $200 you can't beat that.

[redbandana]

If that's true...I will certainly buy one for that price...for $200 you can't beat that.

inside info suggest that the device will start below current two year contract price or significantly less I received information that the device would be between 199.99-299.99. We will see in about 12 hrs if Jobs mentions pricing.

[basilrsa]

Steve Jobs is going to have a press conference on monday 6/9 (which is today for some users). I hear that at&t were able to get him to commit to release the new iphone at $199.99 w/2 year contract.

Vodacom which has the largest user base in South Africa has been granted the distribution rights for the Iphone. Vodacom is 50% owned by Vodafone and 50% by Telkom, the local fixed line operator.
We will be getting the gereration 2 version, but apart from it's 3G capabilities we will have to wait for the announcement today. Shipping will apparently start immediately.
The only down side here is that we do not have a Itunes Store so we cannot use that side of it's functionality.

[MACkjam]

Vodacom which has the largest user base in South Africa has been granted the distribution rights for the Iphone. Vodacom is 50% owned by Vodafone and 50% by Telkom, the local fixed line operator.
We will be getting the gereration 2 version, but apart from it's 3G capabilities we will have to wait for the announcement today. Shipping will apparently start immediately.
The only down side here is that we do not have a Itunes Store so we cannot use that side of it's functionality.

Howzit basilrsa,

Nice to know that there are other South Africans here!!!
I am not an iPhoney fan anyway, so I will wait for the TyTN III or the SE Xperia X1 maybe.

In the meantime my TyTN II ROCKS!!!

Again, good to meet you boet!!!

Regards,

MAC

[vcespon]

WWDC starts at 10 AM PDT, we will get the final specifications then but sites like engadget say:

- It will be 3G (a given, any phone is nowadays)
- But it will not have a front-facing camera for videoconferencing (it seems that it's not a known thing in USA, so if USA does not want it, Apple does not include it)
- It will have GPS receiver (nothing surprising, adding GPS to a phone is only $5)
- No hardware keyboard, typing with finger on a 2.8" screen does not convince me
- As always, closed system, very vendor-centric, very few applications you can run there.

[ChumleyEX]

I thought they moved to an open source setup.

[gsessons]

I know this is a dumb question, but I rather ask then not know at all. Will the 3G IPhone be able to flash the Window 6.1 instead of there OS. I ask because I don't know if it was a Hoax or if it was for real.......I saw a Iphone that had the WM6 on it. This was a while ago that I saw it............

edit:
I looked more closely, it's not only a hoax it is a fake Iphone...........I'm sorry for this waste of space I just used up..

[wshader]

So 199 out July 11th... think it will be unlocked by then? If so might need to try it out, even though I hate apple with a passion.

[NotATreoFan]

Just announced... 3G iPhone... For those who care, Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/iphone-3g-is-finally-official/) link.

[gman8966]

I'm thinking I'm going to try out that new iphone. If it sucks and I don't like it, I'm only out $200 and then I can most likely sell it on ebay for more than i paid...haha.

[grandpareza]

is it 200 with a new contract or without?

[Rudegar]

i'd suspcect with
as apple cant get their cut of each mb downloaded if iphone3gs are sold without a contract

[robosiris]

Personally I still cringe inside regarding the Iphone. My next phone will be either a X1, HTC Touch Diamond Pro, or the Nokia N96 (can't go wrong with an internal 16GB + SD slot for additional memory + accelatometer(sp?). Variety and change is always good though.

[laakness]

I'm sad that it still uses the same lame camera

[sherpa]

I kinda wanted an iPhone but only if it had GPS...the new one does....hmmmm....let's see!!!

[AllTheWay]

Just announced... 3G iPhone... For those who care, Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/09/iphone-3g-is-finally-official/) link.

Also you can check out the official website.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

[laakness]

It may come some day...but everyone forgets about when you aren't in such great cell coverage gmaps blows.

GPS is useless when all you see is a blue dot on a grey background...

TomTom/iGo/Garmin FTW :)

[sherpa]

It may come some day...but everyone forgets about when you aren't in such great cell coverage gmaps blows.

GPS is useless when all you see is a blue dot on a grey background...

TomTom/iGo/Garmin FTW :)

The new version has built-in GPS receiver. It does not solely depend on cell towers or WiFi.

[Isaygarcia]

Still doesnt have a hardware keyboard :3.. my next phone will be the Touch Pro .! xD!


:)

[adavis99]

I very much "hated on" the original iphone. It was expensive, no 3rd party apps, and no 3G.

I'm not sure why i wouldn't like the new version...seems to be a very solid contender.

[Bratag]

Price point makes the Iphone pretty much the best option out in my opinion. I like my kaiser - but anyone who saw the announcement of the new 3g ver of the phone can see that at least apple have provided graphics drivers for THEIR phone.

299 Bucks for 16GB is not bad. Yes the n96 is a great phone (or will be) but its going to be at LEAST 1000 bucks US.

[KD8DNS]

The new version has built-in GPS receiver. It does not solely depend on cell towers or WiFi.

Still uses the cell towers to d/l the maps as you move

[sherpa]

Still uses the cell towers to d/l the maps as you move

You mean data??? Well, with the introduction of the built-in hardware, I'm pretty sure 3rd party vendors will jump in, especially since Apple announced their SDK to the rest of the world.

[Alemaker]

I woulda jumped ship -it needed 3 things:

1) 3G-:)

2) GPS-:)

3) AD2P-NOT :mad:

Stickin with my Tilt and 8 GB microSD

[sebbes]

You mean data??? Well, with the introduction of the built-in hardware, I'm pretty sure 3rd party vendors will jump in, especially since Apple announced their SDK to the rest of the world.

Having Tomtom on the iphone 3G would be cool... But as they went away from the PDA market, I wouldnt bet on this.

[robosiris]

Price point makes the Iphone pretty much the best option out in my opinion. I like my kaiser - but anyone who saw the announcement of the new 3g ver of the phone can see that at least apple have provided graphics drivers for THEIR phone.

299 Bucks for 16GB is not bad. Yes the n96 is a great phone (or will be) but its going to be at LEAST 1000 bucks US.

No the N96 will be more like 800 dollars, which isn't a far cry from the 750 dollars I paid for my Kaiser. Plus, the N96 (to me) is and capable of doing much more than an Iphone. just my two cents

[Taninpv]

double posts

[Taninpv]

No the N96 will be more like 800 dollars, which is a far cry from 750 dollars I paid for my Kaiser. Plus, the N96 (to me) is and capable of doing much more than an Iphone. just my two cents

Ok, I am not an iPhone fan, but I will have to chime in on this.

What can N96 do that iPhone can't? After I did my math, I know I could afford an iphone or more.
anyway, this GPS (http://gizmodo.com/5014688/iphone-built+in-gps-official-with-live-tracking-traffic-info-and-geotagging) on board iPhone is getting a buzz.

[chamelion]

i have to say, i've been anti-apple for years now and 100% pro HTC, absolutely love my tytn.

but i have to say after watching the announcement and seeing features of the iphone, there's no doubt i'm jumping ship in a month. never thought i'd be saying that but wow, have you guys taken a look at the features?

i'll miss the full keyboard for sure. but i won't miss the instability for sure...

i'm glad i didn't upgrade to the tytnII, i'd be stuck on the contract for god knows how much longer!!

what are your guys' view on this?

[EskimoPie]

Having Tomtom on the iphone 3G would be cool... But as they went away from the PDA market, I wouldnt bet on this.

Well engadget is now reporting that TomTom is saying they have a version up and running on the new iPhone allready. They won't commit to a release date yet, but TomTom on an iPhone would be pretty sweet I think.

And what makes you say they went away from the PDA market anyway? They released version 6 not too long ago and are still updating the PDA maps...

[robosiris]

Ok, I am not an iPhone fan, but I will have to chime in on this.

What can N96 do that iPhone can't? After I did my math, I know I could afford an iphone or more.
anyway, this GPS (http://gizmodo.com/5014688/iphone-built+in-gps-official-with-live-tracking-traffic-info-and-geotagging) on board iPhone is getting a buzz.

um, it holds more memory (16 gigs of internal mem + a sd slot), and tv out, quad band, more 3rd party apps, just to name a few. Plus, you can't go wrong with the video recording/playing capabilities, a 5 meg pixel camera and overall media player either. Like I said, this (for me) would make me choose a N96 over an iphone.

[jlor]

I'm considering it.. It's cheap. Sadly it's bound to a provider, so I'll have to wait for someone to figure out how to unlock it, and then I have to figure out how to get one for the cheap price and not pay a monthly fee to the provider..

But what I _really_ like about the phone is that it's running a variant of *nix. I know that system fairly well from work, university and spare time activities..
I suppose I could do the exact same thing with a WinMo device (currently have a Kaiser), but I don't really have the skill of some of our wonderful cooks.

But yea, I'll have to see some reviews. Hopefully the GPS/3G iPhone will still be able to play a decent x264 video and do so for a full-feature movie.

[NotATreoFan]

Also you can check out the official website.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

The official site hadn't been updated yet as of my posting.

I'm considering the new iPhone myself, but I have a few reservations:

A) No tethering
B) Unlimited data plan is more that PDA Max
C) No corporate discount on rate plans (I get a 27% discount through my company now)

[laakness]

The official site hadn't been updated yet as of my posting.

I'm considering the new iPhone myself, but I have a few reservations:

A) No tethering
B) Unlimited data plan is more that PDA Max
C) No corporate discount on rate plans (I get a 27% discount through my company now)

Yeah, the data plan price is going to get a few people.

Also, the whole TT thing...you know being the first to market with an offline gps program they can charge a ton. I dont use my gps a whole lot in awesome 3g coverage areas, more like shitty cell don't know where u are areas ;)

[supertenma]

I am already in the process of selling my AT&T Tilt on ebay... Just a question since I have never bought an iPhone before..

Can I buy the iPhone at the apple store (or online) and walk out with the phone without signing any AT&T contracts?

[NotATreoFan]

Can I buy the iPhone at the apple store (or online) and walk out with the phone without signing any AT&T contracts?

The current model can be bought from Apple stores without a contract, but if you go to an AT&T store, they make you sign a 2 year deal. Hopefully this holds true for the 3G model.

[robosiris]

I am already in the process of selling my AT&T Tilt on ebay... Just a question since I have never bought an iPhone before..

Can I buy the iPhone at the apple store (or online) and walk out with the phone without signing any AT&T contracts?

You should be able to purchase an Iphone from the Apple store and an authorized AT&T dealer without signing up for a 2-year contract. But be warned that since you're not looking to sign a 2-year contract, you'll be paying perhaps twice more than getting it with a contract.
The data plan for the 3G Iphone, I read somewhere perhaps engadgetmobile.com, is going to 30 dollars, which won't include text/mms messaging. Ouch!!

[AllTheWay]

The official site hadn't been updated yet as of my posting.

I'm considering the new iPhone myself, but I have a few reservations:

A) No tethering
B) Unlimited data plan is more that PDA Max
C) No corporate discount on rate plans (I get a 27% discount through my company now)

a.) you can do all the tethering you need via a exchange server. Unless you mean transferring data to your phone other than contacts, e-mail, task. The new iphone works with exchange servers.

b.) I have unlimited data plan as it stands right now. I didn't know you could have a PDA Max plan w/ the Tilt.

c.) Wow! That is a nice discount. A friend of mine had to get the Tilt other than the iphone for this same reason.

[Imsaffor]

So far there hasn't been any menttion of being able to buy it anywhere but directly from ATT and only with a new contract. At least thats the way engadget makes it seem. Its almost like you can't get one without signing a contract.

[AllTheWay]

Gonna have to move this thread for a couple of reasons.

This forum is for discussing The Hermes not those who plan on not having one!

The iphone is not an HTC device supported by XDA-Developers and hence this is an Off-Topic matter

These kinds of threads generate flaming when placed into the heart of the device stronghold. You know what I mean - imagine you have just got a shiny new Hermes so you join a Hermes Forum. What are you greated by? A thread saying effectively, look what you got ain't as good as what I got.

I must admit, I am not a fan of threads that play one device against another. I can think of good and bad in the Hermes but equally I can for the iphone being released too.

So I say what's the point. We can all form a view - choose what we want. Is there any value in a series of posts saying yes I'll get the new iPhone or no I'm sticking with HTC or this or that and a bit of flaming on the way.

Just my view but I'm moving this to Off-topic as it does not provide assistance in using the Hermes phone.

Mike

Mike I will also do this to the iphone thread in the Kaiser section. Don't want to go against protocol :D

[laakness]

I think he means tethering with Internet Sharing.

[hambola]

- No hardware keyboard, typing with finger on a 2.8" screen does not convince me


Where did you get 2.8" from? It actually has a 3.5" screen.

[robosiris]

So far there hasn't been any menttion of being able to buy it anywhere but directly from ATT and only with a new contract. At least thats the way engadget makes it seem. Its almost like you can't get one without signing a contract.

It's an AT&T and Apple conspiracy, lol. I suppose that's why an unlocked Iphone is called 'Jail-breakin''. I'm not even sure if that's the correct term, but I am sure that term only applies to Iphones. How funny.
A week or two after the 3G Phone is officially released, opportunists will 'Jail-break"'those beauties and sell them on Ebay for a nice chunk of change.

[gwnorth]

There are posts over at HoFo saying that the new iPhone will require instore activation at time of purchase - whether from an AT&T store or an Apple store.

Don't know if it's true or not, but that is the buzz.

[mchapman007]

HTC issues are not, No iPhoney in this household!

[galaxys]

No Way! This thread is a waste of space like the iphone fad...

[gregxdoom]

I was thinking about selling the tilt to get one of these, but the killing point for me was no internet sharing, and they STILL haven't included MMS messages.

[redbandana]

Steve Jobs is going to have a press conference on monday 6/9 (which is today for some users). I hear that at&t were able to get him to commit to release the new iphone at $199.99 w/2 year contract.

amazing my people are always correct

[JimmyMcGee]

It may come some day...but everyone forgets about when you aren't in such great cell coverage gmaps blows.

GPS is useless when all you see is a blue dot on a grey background...

TomTom/iGo/Garmin FTW :)

TomTom Has iPhone GPS software ready to go. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSB46553120080609

[raidzx]

No Way! This thread is a waste of space like the iphone fad...

100% agree. I refuse to be an iDroid!

[Jonathan1683]

I am glad they are charging only 199. I will still skip this version because it still lacks certain features. HTC will have to start lowering their prices now. They are ripping us off anyways and losing customers over their video issues. Their customers are losing their loyalty and it serves them right. GJ apple

[gogol]

To be honest, this new iPhone 3G + GPS is very good to my personal opinion.

Well, it does not have hardware keyboard, but I rarely use it though in my Kaiser (only for sms / chatting). And for sure I will get used to it.

However, I dont like Apple, I dont have one, and I dont like the OS. I have never own one, all my life is doing something with Windows and Unix/Linux.

It could be fun to learn something new though :)

But I like how we can customize and hack WinMo :P

Anyway, I hope there will be 3.5" VGA with Windows Mobile 7 coming soon asap! 3G and GPS are now standard ...

[redbandana]

[QUOTE=gogol;2286446]However, I dont like Apple/QUOTE]

I do not like Apple because every Apple product that I have owned malfunctioned. In the past four years I've had 3 iPods that have fried after warranty, matter of fact I threw another one away last night which I purchased just 14 months ago. I opened it and saw the board was burnt to a crisp just under the screen.

[slovoflud]

well... i've never liked apple software/hardware. but this one... i don't know, i kinda like it.

[Marsbar]

i'll miss the full keyboard for sure. but i won't miss the instability for sure...
I tried the iphone after everyone told me how great the soft keyboard was. It sucks. Talk about a bad design: if you mistype (which you will, unless you have fingers shaped like needles) it offers you "possible" options, which is great, except that the "possibles" appear in the text box, nowhere near the keyboard, so you have to move your hand up to the main part of the screen, select the choice you want (which again is difficult enough for anyone with normal fingers) and then move back to carry on stabbing at the "keys".

I'll stick with my real keyboard, thanks.

[NotATreoFan]

a.) you can do all the tethering you need via a exchange server. Unless you mean transferring data to your phone other than contacts, e-mail, task. The new iphone works with exchange servers.

b.) I have unlimited data plan as it stands right now. I didn't know you could have a PDA Max plan w/ the Tilt.

c.) Wow! That is a nice discount. A friend of mine had to get the Tilt other than the iphone for this same reason.

I did mean tethering for the purpose of internet sharing. Of course I'm sure someone will eventually write and app to allow it over the iPhone.

When I first ordered my Tilt, I had the PDA Connect Unlimited for $44.99 and 200 SMS/MMS for $9.99. But when I went into an AT&T store to buy an A2DP headset for upcoming travel, the guy behind the counter said that I was overpaying for my plan options, and set me up with PDA Max Unlimited for $39.99.

Since I ordered my Tilt on release day, I only got $50 off ($249), but AT&T applies my 27% discount every month like clockwork. It works out to cancel out all my taxes on the monthly plan, plus a dollar or two more. Unfortunately iPhone plans are not eligible for service discounts.

[vcespon]

Ok, I am not an iPhone fan, but I will have to chime in on this.

What can N96 do that iPhone can't? After I did my math, I know I could afford an iphone or more.
anyway, this GPS (http://gizmodo.com/5014688/iphone-built+in-gps-official-with-live-tracking-traffic-info-and-geotagging) on board iPhone is getting a buzz.

Videoconferencing for example? :D

Soooo, the iPhone has got 3G and GPS, oooooooh, what a novelty, I had never seen a phone with 3G :D.
Soooo, $200 is with a contract, how much is it untied to a phone operator?
Soooo, 2 MP camera, no autofocus. Humm, I think I know phones with better camera.
Soooo, is there a library of tens of thousands of programs for that OS that you can download and install clicking a cab without having to hack the OS?
Soooo, Can you flash another ROM if you find one better?
Soooo, Does it run Skype?
Soooo, What GPS mapping software runs there? Google maps is not good for everyone, some people does not have infinite MB free to download maps on the go.
Soooo, Can you open PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, CHM files there? Some people use the device to handle information, not just to download music from iTunes
Soooo, no Internet sharing? Are you telling me that I cannot connect my laptop though the phone?
Soooo, no MMS? Hell people, the World is much more than Cuppertino, California. The fact that people on USA did not use SMS until very recently, and are unaware of the existence of MMS and videocall, does not mean that the rest of the World is in the stone age too.

[MACkjam]

This is the Kaiser forum.
Go post this on the iPhoney forum.
The iPhoney is practically useless in South Africa (or anywhere else for that matter).

[Mikulec]

Videoconferencing for example? :D

Soooo, the iPhone has got 3G and GPS, oooooooh, what a novelty, I had never seen a phone with 3G :D.
Soooo, $200 is with a contract, how much is it untied to a phone operator?
Soooo, 2 MP camera, no autofocus. Humm, I think I know phones with better camera.
Soooo, is there a library of tens of thousands of programs for that OS that you can download and install clicking a cab without having to hack the OS?
Soooo, Can you flash another ROM if you find one better?
Soooo, Does it run Skype?
Soooo, What GPS mapping software runs there? Google maps is not good for everyone, some people does not have infinite MB free to download maps on the go.
Soooo, Can you open PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, CHM files there? Some people use the device to handle information, not just to download music from iTunes
Soooo, no Internet sharing? Are you telling me that I cannot connect my laptop though the phone?
Soooo, no MMS? Hell people, the World is much more than Cuppertino, California. The fact that people on USA did not use SMS until very recently, and are unaware of the existence of MMS and videocall, does not mean that the rest of the World is in the stone age too.

ding, ding. Round 1 for vcespon. ;)

[jallenclark]

Videoconferencing for example? :D

Soooo, the iPhone has got 3G and GPS, oooooooh, what a novelty, I had never seen a phone with 3G :D.
Soooo, $200 is with a contract, how much is it untied to a phone operator?
Soooo, 2 MP camera, no autofocus. Humm, I think I know phones with better camera.
Soooo, is there a library of tens of thousands of programs for that OS that you can download and install clicking a cab without having to hack the OS?
Soooo, Can you flash another ROM if you find one better?
Soooo, Does it run Skype?
Soooo, What GPS mapping software runs there? Google maps is not good for everyone, some people does not have infinite MB free to download maps on the go.
Soooo, Can you open PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, CHM files there? Some people use the device to handle information, not just to download music from iTunes
Soooo, no Internet sharing? Are you telling me that I cannot connect my laptop though the phone?
Soooo, no MMS? Hell people, the World is much more than Cuppertino, California. The fact that people on USA did not use SMS until very recently, and are unaware of the existence of MMS and videocall, does not mean that the rest of the World is in the stone age too.

Soooo, the iPhone has got 3G and GPS, oooooooh, what a novelty, I had never seen a phone with 3G :D. True
Soooo, $200 is with a contract, how much is it untied to a phone operator? I don't know if you can do that yet, they are saying you have to get a 2 year or no dice.
Soooo, 2 MP camera, no autofocus. Humm, I think I know phones with better camera. I have used the iPhones 2 mp and it works much better than the Tilts camera (yes I have the camera fix installed)
Soooo, is there a library of tens of thousands of programs for that OS that you can download and install clicking a cab without having to hack the OS? It is growing, it is not as large yet but there are a lot of people working on it.
Soooo, Can you flash another ROM if you find one better? Not yet, the hackers have to get the phone before they can jailbreak it.
Soooo, Does it run Skype? There is a VOIP program, can't remember the name.
Soooo, What GPS mapping software runs there? Google maps is not good for everyone, some people does not have infinite MB free to download maps on the go. TomTom is releasing an app for iPhone.
Soooo, Can you open PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, CHM files there? Some people use the device to handle information, not just to download music from iTunes I don't know about CHM but they announced it can handle all of the others you listed.
Soooo, no Internet sharing? Are you telling me that I cannot connect my laptop though the phone? Someone will write an app to do this soon enough.
Soooo, no MMS? Hell people, the World is much more than Cuppertino, California. The fact that people on USA did not use SMS until very recently, and are unaware of the existence of MMS and videocall, does not mean that the rest of the World is in the stone age too. I don't think they said no MMS anywhere. How many video calls do you truly make?

[guciodog]

Soooo, the iPhone has got 3G and GPS, oooooooh, what a novelty, I had never seen a phone with 3G :D. True
Soooo, $200 is with a contract, how much is it untied to a phone operator? I don't know if you can do that yet, they are saying you have to get a 2 year or no dice.
Soooo, 2 MP camera, no autofocus. Humm, I think I know phones with better camera. I have used the iPhones 2 mp and it works much better than the Tilts camera (yes I have the camera fix installed)
Soooo, is there a library of tens of thousands of programs for that OS that you can download and install clicking a cab without having to hack the OS? It is growing, it is not as large yet but there are a lot of people working on it.
Soooo, Can you flash another ROM if you find one better? Not yet, the hackers have to get the phone before they can jailbreak it.
Soooo, Does it run Skype? There is a VOIP program, can't remember the name.
Soooo, What GPS mapping software runs there? Google maps is not good for everyone, some people does not have infinite MB free to download maps on the go. TomTom is releasing an app for iPhone.
Soooo, Can you open PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, CHM files there? Some people use the device to handle information, not just to download music from iTunes I don't know about CHM but they announced it can handle all of the others you listed.
Soooo, no Internet sharing? Are you telling me that I cannot connect my laptop though the phone? Someone will write an app to do this soon enough.
Soooo, no MMS? Hell people, the World is much more than Cuppertino, California. The fact that people on USA did not use SMS until very recently, and are unaware of the existence of MMS and videocall, does not mean that the rest of the World is in the stone age too. I don't think they said no MMS anywhere. How many video calls do you truly make?
jallenclark- everything you posted about the iphone's features MIGHT come soon. were talking about what it might have NOW, not if the future...:)

[vcespon]

Sooo. It lacks hardware that other phones have had for years, and the other features depend on software that does not exist yet.
Sorry, but I prefer a device that actually works, even if I don't currently use a feature (like videocalling, because it's very expensive here), does not mean that it should come out to the market lacking things that any $50 Nokia has.
It's as if Microsoft realeased Vista without support for OpenGL because Microsoft uses DirectX. For a device that's going to be sold world-wide I see it too America-centered. (I'm sure Google maps and search features cannot find a thing on my country, nor provide traffic status outside places like LA, so all that preloaded software is useless)

[slovoflud]

Videoconferencing for example? :D

Soooo, the iPhone has got 3G and GPS, oooooooh, what a novelty, I had never seen a phone with 3G :D.
Soooo, $200 is with a contract, how much is it untied to a phone operator?
Soooo, 2 MP camera, no autofocus. Humm, I think I know phones with better camera.
Soooo, is there a library of tens of thousands of programs for that OS that you can download and install clicking a cab without having to hack the OS?
Soooo, Can you flash another ROM if you find one better?
Soooo, Does it run Skype?
Soooo, What GPS mapping software runs there? Google maps is not good for everyone, some people does not have infinite MB free to download maps on the go.
Soooo, Can you open PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, CHM files there? Some people use the device to handle information, not just to download music from iTunes
Soooo, no Internet sharing? Are you telling me that I cannot connect my laptop though the phone?
Soooo, no MMS? Hell people, the World is much more than Cuppertino, California. The fact that people on USA did not use SMS until very recently, and are unaware of the existence of MMS and videocall, does not mean that the rest of the World is in the stone age too.
yes, those are the minuses. (well... some of them..) but if you compare it to the number of Kaiser problems (I of course mean mainly the OS), these feel like a couple compared to the ocean.

[jallenclark]

jallenclark- everything you posted about the iphone's features MIGHT come soon. were talking about what it might have NOW, not if the future...:)

Your post was not very clear, let me see if I can decifer what you meant.

I think you meant "We are talking about what the iPhone currently has, not what it might have in the future."

I don't agree. It think it will have everything I said in the future it is just a matter of time, purely my opinion though.

[laakness]

I'm sure some one will write a tethering app...but do you think ATT will let Apple sell it on iTunes????

We technically aren't supposed to tether without the $59 full pda tethering plan but if you don't do it often it's not a big deal.

ATT would throw a shit fit if iPhones were tethering and not paying more for it if the PDA users have to now.

[ChumleyEX]

I actually think the iphone might very well be the platform for mobile devices in the future. The big problem is that windows mobile is made to work on hundreds of phones while the iphone software is taylor made. The Iphone is actually very impressive for a first gen device, and then within a year they make a noticable improvement. HTC should make their own OS considering the amount of phones they have.

[robosiris]

Oh god, not another debate about the Iphone on a Window Mobile forum. But I have to chime in on this one. From my point of view, we're talking about what the 3G Iphone can't/can do VS a WinMo phone in present terms. Hell, the Kaiser has it's fair share of problems, many of them involving drivers, OS, etc.

But I do have to admit the Iphone looks tempting and can see why some many people are fascinated with it. Plus the Iphone can make you more attractive, lol. I have to hand it to Apple though, they are marketing genuises compared to MS, lol. I have friends calling and asking me if I seen or heard about the "New" Iphone, lol. Of course I say no, and allow them to share their joy with me -- without really letting them know that I know more than they do about the "NEW" Iphone, lol. Life is grand.

[curtosrules]

I did mean tethering for the purpose of internet sharing. Of course I'm sure someone will eventually write and app to allow it over the iPhone.

When I first ordered my Tilt, I had the PDA Connect Unlimited for $44.99 and 200 SMS/MMS for $9.99. But when I went into an AT&T store to buy an A2DP headset for upcoming travel, the guy behind the counter said that I was overpaying for my plan options, and set me up with PDA Max Unlimited for $39.99.

Since I ordered my Tilt on release day, I only got $50 off ($249), but AT&T applies my 27% discount every month like clockwork. It works out to cancel out all my taxes on the monthly plan, plus a dollar or two more. Unfortunately iPhone plans are not eligible for service discounts.

I am jealous, my company only gives a me a 15% discount. it does help on the taxes

[adoborunner]

so there will be no MMS on the new Iphone?

[XtreMe_G]

I am jealous, my company only gives a me a 15% discount. it does help on the taxes

damn you, mine only gives 12%

[robosiris]

so there will be no MMS on the new Iphone?

nope .. shame.

[johnknoesel]

after so many updates, changes etc.. ATT finally decided the problem I having is not the radio version but with the radio hardware itself. They are sending me a replacment. If that does not work then I think I will finally just completely abandon HTC and go back to a voice only phone and pda because this is completely ridiculous. How can a company like ATT sell a "PDA Phone" that will not let you run hands free so you can talk and work at the same time. I use this for business and not entertainment. This just fng sux and I cannot take it anymore.:(

[ChumleyEX]

after so many updates, changes etc.. ATT finally decided the problem I having is not the radio version but with the radio hardware itself. They are sending me a replacment. If that does not work then I think I will finally just completely abandon HTC and go back to a voice only phone and pda because this is completely ridiculous. How can a company like ATT sell a "PDA Phone" that will not let you run hands free so you can talk and work at the same time. I use this for business and not entertainment. This just fng sux and I cannot take it anymore.:(


What does that have to do with the Iphone 3g

[jeffla]

I'm seriously considering selling both my tilts and getting the new iphone. I am not sure if I can live without a keyboard, but will find out. But is it true it does not have stereo bluetooth for music? That does not seem possible to me. Anyone know for sure?

Thanks,

Jeff

[ChumleyEX]

http://gizmodo.com/5014705/iphone-3g-the-stuff-that-didnt-get-upgraded

http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/06/wwdc-noiphone.jpg

is this reliable enoug for you?

[fttilt]

I've been a Win Mobile user for several years using HTC devices. What has HTC given us over the past few years? Mostly devices with problems (there are exceptions). I had the xv6700 and it didn't work right until AKU3. It took 1.5 years to finally work. Now with the Kaiser, the graphics drivers suck. ATT still hasn't released WM6.1. And who wants to deal with constantly flashing their phones to find the best OS. It is a time consuming task for something that should work out of the box.

iPhone's OS simply defeats Win Mobile from a graphics and usability perspective. It lacks the h/w keyboard but the soft keyboard works better than any soft keyboard for the Tilt. In landscape mode using Safari, the soft keyboard is just as good as a h/w keyboard. Too bad it doesn't work in landscape mode for all apps. Regardless, the iPhone is a joy to use. You have to look at how innovative it really is. As soon as the 32 GB model is out, I'm selling my Tilt. There are tethering apps out for jailbroken phones. Working with exchange was my biggest issue.

HTC has burned me twice. I'm sure others feel the same way. Releasing a new device to fix another device's problems is not the way to keep customers. At least apple regularly comes out with fixes.

[benmyers2941]

I'm out, it's missing the basic stuff. MMS, copy/paste, etc. Also they're changing things up to help cut down on unlockers. 1 - it has to be activated in store. 2 - Apple is "workin" on a way to "peanlize" those who do not activate the phone in 60 days. No thanks. I'd rather buy a phone from a company that didn't act against it's customers. (HTC just kind of ignores them, I'm looking at you Tytn II video drivers)

[denco7]

I'm seriously considering selling both my tilts and getting the new iphone. I am not sure if I can live without a keyboard, but will find out. But is it true it does not have stereo bluetooth for music? That does not seem possible to me. Anyone know for sure?

Thanks,

Jeff

I have been an Apple fan-boy since day on (Apple IIc ) my first PDA was a Newton. I have a Tilt and it is the best. My wife has a iPhone, so I frequent both forums.

Hang around the my iPhone sucks forum for a while. Then switch to the Steve Jobs and Apple f**ked me forum for a while. The grass is always greener................

http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1139

[robosiris]

This thread has nothing to do with the Kaiser, and should be moved to the "General Discussion" forum. It's a waste of space, art least here anyway.

[efjay]

I dont really see what the "features" are that make this phone so much better than others. Cool ui - yes, nice storage - yes, but is all that worth things like being locked into a 2yr contract with a mandatory data plan, restrictions on applications and generally being under Apple's thumb? Personally, I dont think so.

[ChumleyEX]

Just imagine the next few generations of the IPhone. I think those are the ones to watch out for. They did some minor things in one year but in 2, wow, they really could do a lot. Oh and the sdk is out for developers.

[hazeline]

Iphone now cost $199 and u get a wonderful processor, plus a big screen. so anyone giving up on other phones??
Please give reasons why and why not. Thanks.

[jeffla]

http://gizmodo.com/5014705/iphone-3g-the-stuff-that-didnt-get-upgraded

http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/06/wwdc-noiphone.jpg

is this reliable enoug for you?

Guess I'm sticking with the tilt (which i do love, just thought an iphone would be fun).

I will not live without stereo bluetooth headphones. How messed up that the most hyped music phone on the market, an ipod, does not support bluetooth stereo. I only listen to music that way.

[jallenclark]

Guess I'm sticking with the tilt (which i do love, just thought an iphone would be fun).

I will not live without stereo bluetooth headphones. How messed up that the most hyped music phone on the market, an ipod, does not support bluetooth stereo. I only listen to music that way.

I agree but bluetooth stereo users are in the minority. I would guess because it requires an expensive purchase (compared to wired) of the headset. It also required you to keep the wireless headset charged. Then sometime you get skipping with the bluetooth.

[NotATreoFan]

I'm sure some one will write a tethering app...but do you think ATT will let Apple sell it on iTunes????

We technically aren't supposed to tether without the $59 full pda tethering plan but if you don't do it often it's not a big deal.

ATT would throw a shit fit if iPhones were tethering and not paying more for it if the PDA users have to now.

Of course AT&T or Apple would not approve a tethering app! :rolleyes: You just have to jailbreak the phone and load an "unapproved" application.

[jallenclark]

Of course AT&T or Apple would not approve a tethering app! :rolleyes: You just have to jailbreak the phone and load an "unapproved" application.

But ATT sells the Tilt with ICS on it, why wouldn't they allow users to download a tethering app?

I agree that if they don't users will just jailbreak and put their own on.

[l3v5y]

I'm out, it's missing the basic stuff. MMS, copy/paste, etc. Also they're changing things up to help cut down on unlockers. 1 - it has to be activated in store. 2 - Apple is "workin" on a way to "peanlize" those who do not activate the phone in 60 days. No thanks. I'd rather buy a phone from a company that didn't act against it's customers. (HTC just kind of ignores them, I'm looking at you Tytn II video drivers)Aaaah HTC! :d

I agree Apples policy is quite harsh, but my main complaint about the "New iPhone" is that it's not new... The Diamond does the same, if not more, and isn't marketed as "New"...

And, apart from 3G, and unusable (without large ammounts of data) GPS, what is new?

[l3v5y]

Iphone now cost $199 and u get a wonderful processor, plus a big screen. so anyone giving up on other phones??
Please give reasons why and why not. Thanks.
It's $199 with a 24 month contract...

Diamond has a higher res screen
I believe the Diamond also has a higher clocked processor.
Has a rubbish keyboard...
I dislike the closed source OS, and lack of easy development and deployment of apps.
I dislike Apples marketing, and the way they are selling it as a "revolutionary" product...
It may have GPS, but try and find some software for it (other than Google Maps).

On the upside,
Large screen
Lots of memory...

BTW, there are already threads out for this...

[wmvfan]

I believe the Diamond also has a higher clocked processor.
iphone has a 620 mhz
diamond has "just" 528 mhz

hope there will be a prepaid version of the new iphone.
can you buy it without at&t contract in apple store ? (like the old one)

[hambola]

About the iPhone, 3G & GPS are not new things. Neither is push Exchange support. My cruise has been doing that for awhile now. and the kaiser even longer. The interesting thing is that while Apple is still releasing firmware updates a year later that drastically improve the features available for their device, HTC ignores any software updates for ours and just releases new hardware devices. I don't think Apple's business model is too bad. They don't release several different models and a new phone every few months. They have one device and continue to support it. I realize HTC gives us choices with different models which is great, but how about some support or updates? Nevermind the fact that WM6 updates are a freakin joke. 6.1 added what, some lame IE "features" and threaded SMS?? come on. seriously.

[l3v5y]

iphone has a 620 mhz
diamond has "just" 528 mhz

hope there will be a prepaid version of the new iphone.
can you buy it without at&t contract in apple store ? (like the old one)I believe that although the stock processor is 628MHz, it is underclocked to 400MHz, although I may be wrong...

[ayyu3m]

this is getting to be rather boring and pointless if ya ask me. why dont u iphone fanboys find some iphone forum and loose ur ends there. damn!

[l3v5y]

About the iPhone, 3G & GPS are not new things. Neither is push Exchange support. My cruise has been doing that for awhile now. and the kaiser even longer. The interesting thing is that while Apple is still releasing firmware updates a year later that drastically improve the features available for their device, HTC ignores any software updates for ours and just releases new hardware devices. I don't think Apple's business model is too bad. They don't release several different models and a new phone every few months. They have one device and continue to support it. I realize HTC gives us choices with different models which is great, but how about some support or updates? Nevermind the fact that WM6 updates are a freakin joke. 6.1 added what, some lame IE "features" and threaded SMS?? come on. seriously.Okay, so the WM6.1 update was a bit retarded, but give me something the current (2G) iPhone can do better than my aging Prophet. And for the 3G iPhone, the Diamond is about the same price and same date...

(apart from screen resolution)

EDIT: Make it the original touch to compare with the iPhone. Similar size, and date although the Touch was much cheaper (and the touch is essentially just a repackaged Prophet, so I gain nothing in terms of hardware...)

[l3v5y]

this is getting to be rather boring and pointless if ya ask me. why dont u iphone fanboys find some iphone forum and loose ur ends there. damn!

I agree, but a good argument is always fun :D

[hambola]

Okay, so the WM6.1 update was a bit retarded, but give me something the current (2G) iPhone can do better than my aging Prophet. And for the 3G iPhone, the Diamond is about the same price and same date...

(apart from screen resolution)

EDIT: Make it the original touch to compare with the iPhone. Similar size, and date although the Touch was much cheaper (and the touch is essentially just a repackaged Prophet, so I gain nothing in terms of hardware...)

My post is not meant to be pro iPhone, if you search all my posts you will see several where I list major cons about it. For example, I had a picture on my phone, and there was no way to get it to my friend on his iPhone. It won't connect with Bluetooth, it wouldn't accept the pic through an MMS. It wouldn't let him save the picture from an email I sent him (new firmware is supposed to allow you to save images from emails). Pretty freakin lame. But credit is given where credit is due, and the phone has pros and cons to it, just like our HTC devices do.

My post was about the fact that we don't get updates to ours. That includes updates from Microsoft and HTC. WM6.1 update was a joke. And HTC doesn't care about video drivers or updating any of their software and is busy making Diamonds & Touch Pros. The rest is left to the guys on XDA to rip those apps out of new devices and create CABs and ROMs for our devices to stay current.

I've said this before and will say it again, if it wasn't for XDA I don't think I would be getting HTC devices.

[l3v5y]

My post is not meant to be pro iPhone, if you search all my posts you will see several where I list major cons about it. For example, I had a picture on my phone, and there was no way to get it to my friend on his iPhone. It won't connect with Bluetooth, it wouldn't accept the pic through an MMS. It wouldn't let him save the picture from an email I sent him (new firmware is supposed to allow you to save images from emails). Pretty freakin lame. But credit is given where credit is due, and the phone has pros and cons to it, just like our HTC devices do.

My post was about the fact that we don't get updates to ours. That includes updates from Microsoft and HTC. WM6.1 update was a joke. And HTC doesn't care about video drivers or updating any of their software and is busy making Diamonds & Touch Pros. The rest is left to the guys on XDA to rip those apps out of new devices and create CABs and ROMs for our devices to stay current.

I've said this before and will say it again, if it wasn't for XDA I don't think I would be getting HTC devices.XDA-Devs is awesome, and is another reason why WM is better than the iPhone... There is far more variation, and so more possibilities for what can be ripped and modded...

[fredline12002]

Apple can go and get iFu©ked.

[fredline12002]

XDA-Devs is awesome, and is another reason why WM is better than the iPhone... There is far more variation, and so more possibilities for what can be ripped and modded...

My case in point.

[l3v5y]

Apple can go and get iFu©ked.Oh yes! But this is better than any other Fu©k, it combines three revolutionary techniques... (I think I'll stop there ;))

[wmvfan]

iphone use the Marvell PXA 320 (ARM1176JZF) cpu.
the core is scalable to 800 MHz
it´s underclocked to 620 to save battery.

here you can see how the iphone is build up:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/iPhone-Prozessor-ARM,Q-H-37241-15.jpg

[TheBrit]

I must say I'm tempted. The iPhone 3G is what the iPhone should have been in the first place. I'm waiting to see if my carrier will get the Touch Pro. If they do then I will get that instead.

[mchapman007]

Sorry folks! Never going to get an iPhone.... My wife is all the eye candy I need....

[sonus]

I don't get what all the Apple hate is about. I won't be switching to the 3G iphone only b/c the way I see it, both the iPhone and HTC phones have their issues. However, my bet is on Apple fixing their issues (i.e. lack of 3rd party software) before I see MS/HTC fixing their issues (crappy UI and slow responsiveness)...And thus I'll likely be the owner of a 3rd gen iPhone before owning a wm7 phone. Anyone who's seriously picked up an iPhone and used it for any lenght of time would know that our WM phones have some serious UI/responsiveness/usability catching up to do.

[robosiris]

I will never get an I-Phone. BUT you can ignore that fact that Apple are marketing genuises compared to MS and HTC. Probably because they are focused on oe device. Not only that, Apple's support and upgrades are like clockwork and do make the device better. Whereas HTC support sucks to high heaven and sell many devices which all of them can use a upgrade or two.
Sony's X1, Touch Pro Diamond hasn't even come out yet, but they can use a upgrade right about now too, lol.
My next device will probably be Nokia N96, hopefully around Christmas. 5 meg pixel camera with Carl zeiss lens, exceptional video playing/recording and overall media capabilities, Mobile TV out, the apps, and a internal 16 Gig memory + SD slot for extra memory!! (where my 24 Gig card, lol?)
And it can send and recieve MMS messages, lol. Just my two cents.

[Rudegar]

dont hate measure the pro vs. the cons and get the device which fit the best

personaly i want to be able to find all sorts of strange old free programs and games
and make my own without too much hassel

and i want sd storage

but the of cause because of the 2th requirement diamond is out too

[teammee]

IMHO... we can not compare IPhone with Windows Mobile phone... it's totally different kind of product.
ok, many people might argue that both are the same kind, because both can be used to make a phone call etc.etc. but the way the user use it is heavily different.

with IPhone we get what they offer.. a nice looking product with a quite stable performance, nice interface, and the most important thing by having IPhone is fashion... life style... it's exactly the same reason why people choose to buy Ipod rather than MP3 player from other manufacturer..
but that's it... you just buy an expensive product and use it... just like when you bought your first mobile phone years ago... and at this moment there are not so many third party applications.. and you have to live with the default one.. also up to now there is no chance to play with the os.. (maybe later...)..

with WM Phone, we get a windows device in our pocket, that can be used as a phone... together with the famous unstability of windows OS... but.. we really know what is inside.. we can play with the system.. try to make it better... optimize it... also do some customization.. remove this.. adding that... with tons of applications available out there, and i guess, this is what most people in this forum wants... (including me ;) )...

in short, if you just want to have a phone + multimedia device and you wants to looks cool carrying Apple gadget in your pocket... you better look for IPhone...
but if you want to have a device that can be customized as you need.. WM device is the answer...

one more thing... all IPhone only able to do the same things... but I bet that your WM device has different applications with mine...

[jadephyre]

the iPhone is for Guys/Gals who have keep up in being "stylish".
As are all Apple Products.

[AthenaLod]

Why not add a poll, it will be interesting too the trend.

[robosiris]

I agree with Teammee. You can't really compare .... it's like comparing cooked roms for the Kaiser. It boils down to what cook you like better, and everyone's entitled to their own opinion and preference(s).
It's funny how all these Iphone threads are popping up all over the place. I wish there was one central place here on XDA where people can voice their opinion/view about the Iphone. Perhaps there should an Iphone forum here. There would be alot less random threads popping up randomly.

[master athlon]

no i will not, b/c like many have said the OS seriously lacks 3rd party support, and yes apple has said to support more programs, but they TEST every single one, before it even sees an iphone. And dont let the new price get you all excited, check out this article. (http://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_3g_for_$199_or_even_free__but_whats_the_cat ch-news-521.php)

[vlodeck]

It may have GPS, but try and find some software for it (other than Google Maps).

TomTom will be available shortly for iPhone.

[NotATreoFan]

But ATT sells the Tilt with ICS on it, why wouldn't they allow users to download a tethering app?

I agree that if they don't users will just jailbreak and put their own on.

The ICS app is included in the ROM, but on most (if not all) AT&T ship ROMs, there is no shortcut for it, so you have to dig through the Windows folder to get to it. You also need to pay $59.99/mo for their laptop connect plan if you want them to look the other way on tethering.

[graztd]

i wamt both iphone and diamond or touch pro

think i will get both in time :)

[hotplainrice]

Me:
Have a Kaiser. Today, Apple-convert.

[monster2223]

I have been an Apple fan-boy since day on (Apple IIc ) my first PDA was a Newton. I have a Tilt and it is the best. My wife has a iPhone, so I frequent both forums.

Hang around the my iPhone sucks forum for a while. Then switch to the Steve Jobs and Apple f**ked me forum for a while. The grass is always greener................

http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1139

so what are you saying denco? I trust your advice. Now that the 3G is out and it sports SDK, GPS, and so forth, would you still rather take the kaiser? If so, why? My whole family argues for iPhone and I don't know exactly what to argue back considering I never use bluetooth audio OR the camera for the matter.
Let me also add the intricates of my discount. I can get the iphone for 150, and the Kaiser for 120, which I already have, but have 10 days to return.

[hazeline]

I thought now third party softwares are allowed now, SDK??? Thats why apple is selling so cheap for a iphone which comes with tempting specifications.

[chococrazy]

Actually 3g costs more than the normal iphone 40 bucks more for the cheapest plan to be exact (over a 2 year period) Because u have to sign up for a 2year contract. ill quote an article "If you give away a razr for free you can charge out of the nose for the blades."
Either way the iphone is the same as a brick with 3g written on the side they both are used to lift things up and can hold stuff down but cant do anything much more.

[Alemaker]

I agree but bluetooth stereo users are in the minority. I would guess because it requires an expensive purchase (compared to wired) of the headset. It also required you to keep the wireless headset charged. Then sometime you get skipping with the bluetooth.

:eek: Minority?
Cutting edge is more like it. Charging?? hmm, my Motorola BT headphones ROCK!! and charging them overnight is no problem. Skipping? hmm, there have been ppl complainig about that, but I for one never experience it.

No AD2P support is ridiculous, like I said in my post back on the 3rd or 4th page, woulda jumped ship cept no AD2P is a deal breaker. Tilt with a 8GB sd, AD2P, and GPS + 3G= no iPhone for me.

[gman8966]

I wonder if I get the new iphone since you have to have data. Will I be able to keep my kaiser and use the same sim to switch back and forth between the two?

[robosiris]

I wonder if I get the new iphone since you have to have data. Will I be able to keep my kaiser and use the same sim to switch back and forth between the two?

Possibly. I'm thinking of the scenerio that you enter an authorized AT&T store and activating it there. They may say that because the "Iphone" is not a PDA like the Kaiser), thus requiring a the $30/month Iphone data plan. This is what I'm speculating, but can totally envision them saying this you to increase their profits (and deplete your bank account, lol)

[Blowfish64]

I agree with Teammee. You can't really compare .... it's like comparing cooked roms for the Kaiser.

Of course you can compare. That's what you HAVE to do when you decide whether you want to get one or the other, unless of course you have tons of cash lying around and want to get both. All this apples to oranges thing is just trying to avoid the issue.

Personally, I find the new iPhone rather tempting, but then again I haven't tried it out yet. The biggest plus for me is the screen. I'm tired of Windows Mobile devices' lame, itsy-bitsy teenie-weenie screens. But I do like the customizability of WM. So I'll have to see.

It's a shame so many people are so close-minded and polarized. Anyone who likes the iPhone is an Apple fanboy or only wants the phone to look "cool". That's just ignorant. And what is up with not buying from a company just because they're too popular? I'm never buying from HTC again because they screwed us over with the lack of video drivers, not because I want to be "cooler". People can bash Apple all they like and in many instances it's deserved, but some people here are just as obnoxious about their HTC-fanboyism as Apple lovers are. Don't you think MAYBE someone might actually want an iPhone because they're tired of crashes, lockups, lagginess, conflicts, sucky battery life, being spit on by the manufacturer, etc. etc. etc.? and the things they sacrifice by switching might be worth it to them?

[robosiris]

Of course you can compare. That's what you HAVE to do when you decide whether you want to get one or the other, unless of course you have tons of cash lying around and want to get both. All this apples to oranges thing is just trying to avoid the issue.

Personally, I find the new iPhone rather tempting, but then again I haven't tried it out yet. The biggest plus for me is the screen. I'm tired of Windows Mobile devices' lame, itsy-bitsy teenie-weenie screens. But I do like the customizability of WM. So I'll have to see.

It's a shame so many people are so close-minded and polarized. Anyone who likes the iPhone is an Apple fanboy or only wants the phone to look "cool". That's just ignorant. And what is up with not buying from a company just because they're too popular? I'm never buying from HTC again because they screwed us over with the lack of video drivers, not because I want to be "cooler". People can bash Apple all they like and in many instances it's deserved, but some people here are just as obnoxious about their HTC-fanboyism as Apple lovers are. Don't you think MAYBE someone might actually want an iPhone because they're tired of crashes, lockups, lagginess, conflicts, sucky battery life, being spit on by the manufacturer, etc. etc. etc.? and the things they sacrifice by switching might be worth it to them?

To me, it's very subjective. I agree with you as well. I don't dislike the Iphone, nor am I a die hard HTC fan (due to the lack of support, etc). My next device is probably going to be the Nokia N96. One thing I praise about Apple for is the ton of support, updates, etc they provide. Plus, Apple definitely knows how to market their products.

[aad4321]

i think its awsome, but rmember it is 199.00 with 2 yr activation. AND rumor has it you CANNOT buy an iphone without activation. they are trying to prevent it from being used outside of ATT as much as possible. ALSO i have tmobile, and I am pretty sure tmobile 3G(when they friggin have it in my area) runs on a different band than att.

[DeniaL]

As much as it pains me to say this, I think I am going to switch...once I see the exact options for the phone. $199 but what internal memory? 4gb, 8gb, 16gb??? They have a 32gb ipod touch right? So, depending on that I may do it. The three things I was waiting for the iPhone to have they now do. 3G, GPS, Exchange (activesync support) and SDK (3rd party apps). I'm not gonna jump the band waggon right away, but it's looking like it....kinda scary lol! Just to throw in some FYI as far as my decision. My girlfriend has an iPhone and everytime I use it I am AMAZED at how smooth and fast everything reacts. My tilt is hard to type on the keyboard quickly because the damn device is too slow. Never had that issue on her iPhone. Once TomTom or equivalent comes out, iPhone here I come!

Where'd you read about TomTom releasing an iPhone version?

[senko.jin]

iphone use the Marvell PXA 320 (ARM1176JZF) cpu.
the core is scalable to 800 MHz
it´s underclocked to 620 to save battery.

here you can see how the iphone is build up:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/iPhone-Prozessor-ARM,Q-H-37241-15.jpg

If this is the case, how come pdadb.net says iPhone 3G uses Samsung S5L8900.

I'm thinking of switching to iPhone since my Tilt starts to frustrate me.

All I need is an almost all-in-one device that I don't need to modify for almost three to six hours a day just to make it useful/convenient for me.

Once I see the full pricing structure and it's not a rip-off as seen lately, verify that Tomtom made a software for it's GPS and somebody make a finance software ala SPB Finance, I'm in. :o

[slovoflud]

well guys, you only discuss raw numbers. IMHO you have to look at the whole "experience" of using a phone. what you see when you switch it on, what buttons you press to get what you want, and how you press them. How is the information presented to you, how readible is it, how options are presented to you.

if you take Browsers, for example, I use Firefox, not IE, not because everytime i click on a link i think to myself "man, this is waaay safer than IE". no. it's because it's much more pleasurable to use Firefox in my opinion.

Things like GPS, 3G, AD2P are very specific. not everybody use them, not everyone needs them. (i, for one, use neither of those features except GPS sometimes, mainly for fun)

I'm not for WM nor Apple. I really wish Android gets ported soon. But don't just say iPhone is crap, because it hasn't got everything Kaiser has. It beats Kaiser (or any other WM phone for that matter) hands down, when it comes to "user Experiense"

[Tupac_Shakur]

Mod Edit: I'll not officially warn you this time due to your frustration but cool the language please!

[Kraize]

Language please....go with some other company lol. No other company will be better than HTC in the field of PPC. At least not for another year or so. Crappy devices? Who's fault was it to buy the first Diamond? Just like those stupid iPhone customers that bought the first ones and complained and complained about how buggy and horrible it was. I mean did you SERIOUSLY expect the HTC Diamond to be perfect? All devices released first time have bugs. Even the iPhone 2 will be buggy when released and people will complain and complain even though it's THEIR fault for buying it >.> but yeah. To each his own.

[l3v5y]

Of course you can compare. That's what you HAVE to do when you decide whether you want to get one or the other, unless of course you have tons of cash lying around and want to get both. All this apples to oranges thing is just trying to avoid the issue.

Personally, I find the new iPhone rather tempting, but then again I haven't tried it out yet. The biggest plus for me is the screen. I'm tired of Windows Mobile devices' lame, itsy-bitsy teenie-weenie screens. But I do like the customizability of WM. So I'll have to see.

It's a shame so many people are so close-minded and polarized. Anyone who likes the iPhone is an Apple fanboy or only wants the phone to look "cool". That's just ignorant. And what is up with not buying from a company just because they're too popular? I'm never buying from HTC again because they screwed us over with the lack of video drivers, not because I want to be "cooler". People can bash Apple all they like and in many instances it's deserved, but some people here are just as obnoxious about their HTC-fanboyism as Apple lovers are. Don't you think MAYBE someone might actually want an iPhone because they're tired of crashes, lockups, lagginess, conflicts, sucky battery life, being spit on by the manufacturer, etc. etc. etc.? and the things they sacrifice by switching might be worth it to them?This is an HTC "Fanboy" site, so I doubt many people will agree with you...

And, the iPhones I've used crash far more than my Prophet, break, and are kinda crap all round... Also, don't you think the completely closed development for the iPhone, and Apples attempts to lock down jail broken devices is a bit like being "spat on by the manufacturer"?

Also, Apple have a single device, so they can devote all there time and money with that device, hence why it may have fewer issues, but, HTC have a variety of devices, for different consumer markets, and the latest devices (Diamond, Raphael etc) all have drivers.

[amik5]

Changing to Iphone? no way!!!!!
The Iphone is cheaper though, but it has no GPS, no camera, and no turbo accelerated 3G. The software on the Iphone is also much less flexible, I would really like to see softwares like emulators and windows mobile work on the phone. I bought the phone, but I was unable to get neither of it.

The preformance on the HTC Kaiser has by the way increased a lot thanks many developers on this forum. Most of the stuttering and lagg that originally existed on my phone is now gone.

[amik5]

Soooo, the iPhone has got 3G and GPS, oooooooh, what a novelty, I had never seen a phone with 3G :D. True
Soooo, $200 is with a contract, how much is it untied to a phone operator? I don't know if you can do that yet, they are saying you have to get a 2 year or no dice.
Soooo, 2 MP camera, no autofocus. Humm, I think I know phones with better camera. I have used the iPhones 2 mp and it works much better than the Tilts camera (yes I have the camera fix installed)
Soooo, is there a library of tens of thousands of programs for that OS that you can download and install clicking a cab without having to hack the OS? It is growing, it is not as large yet but there are a lot of people working on it.
Soooo, Can you flash another ROM if you find one better? Not yet, the hackers have to get the phone before they can jailbreak it.
Soooo, Does it run Skype? There is a VOIP program, can't remember the name.
Soooo, What GPS mapping software runs there? Google maps is not good for everyone, some people does not have infinite MB free to download maps on the go. TomTom is releasing an app for iPhone.
Soooo, Can you open PDF, DOC, XLS, PPT, CHM files there? Some people use the device to handle information, not just to download music from iTunes I don't know about CHM but they announced it can handle all of the others you listed.
Soooo, no Internet sharing? Are you telling me that I cannot connect my laptop though the phone? Someone will write an app to do this soon enough.
Soooo, no MMS? Hell people, the World is much more than Cuppertino, California. The fact that people on USA did not use SMS until very recently, and are unaware of the existence of MMS and videocall, does not mean that the rest of the World is in the stone age too. I don't think they said no MMS anywhere. How many video calls do you truly make?


Actually, when it comes to camera, the Kaiser takes much better pictures. And internet works many times faster, plus that the Iphone doesn't have GPS. The Iphone developers were talking about having gps for their phone, but it lacks too much hardware and software in order to make it possible (see http://www.gpsreview.net/apple-iphone-gps/). Though whats acutally true is that the 32 gb version is coming.

[teammee]

Of course you can compare. That's what you HAVE to do when you decide whether you want to get one or the other, unless of course you have tons of cash lying around and want to get both. All this apples to oranges thing is just trying to avoid the issue.


I think that you misunderstood the statement... in term of buying a similar product of course you have to compare it... but the way you make a comparison is different.. I mean, if you decide whether you want to buy Kaiser or Eten M800, you should make a comparison of the spec... because both can do the same thing...

but Iphone is different... for example, if you need a device that can do some office things like doing some works in office application, or using push mail, IPhone is not an option... but if you only use it as a multimedia phone, maybe it is the right choice for you...

you got what i mean?


It's a shame so many people are so close-minded and polarized. Anyone who likes the iPhone is an Apple fanboy or only wants the phone to look "cool".
maybe you are not like that... but IMHO as a general it is like that... IPhone equal with a lifestyle... just like IPod...
and really... IPhone has a better image for most of the people... maybe because of the have a brilliant marketing team... and indeed Steve Jobs is brilliant...


Don't you think MAYBE someone might actually want an iPhone because they're tired of crashes, lockups, lagginess, conflicts, sucky battery life, being spit on by the manufacturer, etc. etc. etc.? and the things they sacrifice by switching might be worth it to them?
it is again, back to your choice... for some people here, they don't use their phone only as a phone... but also as a toys to play, to customized, or even to brick... ;)...
buying IPhone is the same like buying a symbian product... means very small customization available...
also about battery life... this is one issue.. no matter how good the battery in IPhone.. if it is not good anymore you have to send it to them.. and you will end up having no phone during the process...

anyway... I don't say that IPhone is not good... but it just not suitable for my needs... moreover, I am not against Apple... I love apple macbook... infact I'm typing this using my macbookpro...

[NotATreoFan]

I wonder if I get the new iphone since you have to have data. Will I be able to keep my kaiser and use the same sim to switch back and forth between the two?

The iPhone ships with a SIM card already inserted, and that is the one you are forced to use with it (unless you jailbreak it and switch carriers). The 3G iPhone may be $199 to buy, but the rate plans are going to be more expensive then the current ones.

Cell minutes will probably be the same price, but unlimited data will increase to $30 ($40 if your phone is on a business account). However, at least original iPhone owners won't get screwed on the new prices... People who upgrade will have their current plans grandfathered over to the new 3G model.

[KD8DNS]

IMO, I have never been one to follow trend, I do my own thing. It utterly floors me to see the vast amounts of people waiting 2-3 days in line to get the iphone. I can litterally have ANY phone from AT&T for free, I use the tilt, And will continue to to do so unless another winmo device gets picked up like the X1.
I guess my dislike for the iphone rests in the fact its not a customizable device. I had one for 3-4 months and it was like apple still owned it, not me.
and for anyone that has used/owned you catch my drift.

The sdk is bullsh*t, you should be able to put 3rd party apps on it without ANY modification, it's concidered a PDA therefor it should act like one. There are also some underlying technical problems with the way the device communicates with the 3g network. I obviously cant go into detail on this thus far.

With the above being said it will be very interesting to see how pissed off people will be at release when the (for example) tilt connects to 3g and a iphone sitting right next to it does not:D (dont tell anybody i said that).
And anybody that knows my profession, knows that this is credible.

So in closing, if your one of the ones that is going to wait in line to get iphone2, i would reccomend waiting. Yes the user interface is user friendly, but at this point THATS IT!!! The phone has always sucked and will continue to suck.

OHHH, and im sure p1tater will be first in line, LMFAO, sorry bud had to do it.

[AthenaLod]

Why not add a poll, it will be interesting too the trend.

This thread has a poll, maybe merge the two threads?

[l3v5y]

IMO, I have never been one to follow trend, I do my own thing. It utterly floors me to see the vast amounts of people waiting 2-3 days in line to get the iphone. I can litterally have ANY phone from AT&T for free, I use the tilt, And will continue to to do so unless another winmo device gets picked up like the X1.
I guess my dislike for the iphone rests in the fact its not a customizable device. I had one for 3-4 months and it was like apple still owned it, not me.
and for anyone that has used/owned you catch my drift.

The sdk is bullsh*t, you should be able to put 3rd party apps on it without ANY modification, it's concidered a PDA therefor it should act like one. There are also some underlying technical problems with the way the device communicates with the 3g network. I obviously cant go into detail on this thus far.

With the above being said it will be very interesting to see how pissed off people will be at release when the (for example) tilt connects to 3g and a iphone sitting right next to it does not:D (dont tell anybody i said that).
And anybody that knows my profession, knows that this is credible.

So in closing, if your one of the ones that is going to wait in line to get iphone2, i would reccomend waiting. Yes the user interface is user friendly, but at this point THATS IT!!! The phone has always sucked and will continue to suck.

OHHH, and im sure p1tater will be first in line, LMFAO, sorry bud had to do it.Interesting point of view from someone "in the know" although, even without the problems you state, it still does nothing compared to the Tilt, and all the "revolutions" have already been implemented in other devices...

[nace222]

the iPhone is for Guys/Gals who have keep up in being "stylish".
As are all Apple Products.

i this and i that.......still no pic txting.....HSDPA is way better (igarbage = HSDPA 3.6 vurses our 7.2!....not to mention no SLINGBOX!

http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/attachments/4wm-news/1002d1213116563-iphone-3g-cometh-2008-06-10_174739.jpg

The Tilt is by far the most suited for me. Word, PDF, Excel and PPT files I use everyday and being in printing I have converted so many damn Vista files on my phone vs on our XP computers in the office.

IMO (like said before) the only compelling argument ifruits have is that even if your the ugliest person on the street when you pull that phone out you look more stylish = SO!

Not to mention reading the apple forum makes me laugh......there even more noobish than some peeps here!

Again all in my own opinion......No Sling.....no Bluetooth???? WTF?

[NotATreoFan]

hope there will be a prepaid version of the new iphone. can you buy it without at&t contract in apple store ? (like the old one)

As of right now, the only carrier that has confirmed prepaid support is Orange. The ONLY way to buy the iPhone officially in the US is at an AT&T store or Apple store, and you must activate right there on the spot. No contract... no phone.

[tjkhattak61]

iPhone2 ???? definitely No :p.

[jellycow]

iPhone2 ???? definitely No :p.

I'm not saying I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and get the iPhone 3G. It's just not that much of an improvement over the old iPhone. I really like my 8925 (with my 3125 as backup).

But understand this is coming from a very American point of view...Thank god for Apple and its iPhone 3G! I was not impressed by the device. But when I saw the subsidized price, I was floored. Just think of the possibilities of what will happen to this market in the next 6-12 months!!! It's all about competition and it can only be good for the consumer.

Getting a pretty capable 3G handset into the hands of regular consumers can start that momentum for these US operators to really start competing on features and services. We've had lot of 3G handsets...but nothing so easy for regular joe-schmoes to pickup and use. I hope iPhone succeeds...I hope it pushes our carriers to add new features and new services, lower prices, and start to push the envelope a little...catch up a little to the rest of the world!

And I hope this $200 subsidized price pushes all the other companies to compete on price! I see rumors of HTC Diamond Pro and Sony Xperia X1 being around $4-500 AFTER the subsidy. I hope these guys are shaking in their boots. Because even with single carrier contract being barrier to entry, iPhone will still eat into their market share....and they'll have to react.

Then when HTC and Sony are forced to get on the market for around $250 subsidized price...man...I'll be the first in line!

[kane81]

I think I will jump ship.... watching the keynote really impressed me, especially RAD development.

[l3v5y]

And I hope this $200 subsidized price pushes all the other companies to compete on price! I see rumors of HTC Diamond Pro and Sony Xperia X1 being around $4-500 AFTER the subsidy. I hope these guys are shaking in their boots. Because even with single carrier contract being barrier to entry, iPhone will still eat into their market share....and they'll have to react.Unlike the iPhone, the Raphael and X1 both have newer technology, not 2 year old stuff that is both crap and "revolutionary". Both the Raphael and X1 are business orietated devices, they are far more corporate, and far more powerful than the "I can't make up my mind if I'm a business phone or a consumer device so I'll sell my self as both and do niether" iPhone...

Both the X1 and the Raphael have higher res screens, hardware keyboards and a hell of a lot more functionality (both hard ware and software wise).

The Diamond is the closest thing to the iPhone (in terms of size and price point) but even that uses better hardware, has a higher clocked processor (528MHz instead of the 600 underclocked to 400MHz iPhone) and has far more standadised software (WM, and all the things that come with it).

[jellycow]

Unlike the iPhone, the Raphael and X1 both have newer technology, not 2 year old stuff that is both crap and "revolutionary". Both the Raphael and X1 are business orietated devices, they are far more corporate, and far more powerful than the "I can't make up my mind if I'm a business phone or a consumer device so I'll sell my self as both and do niether" iPhone...

Both the X1 and the Raphael have higher res screens, hardware keyboards and a hell of a lot more functionality (both hard ware and software wise).

The Diamond is the closest thing to the iPhone (in terms of size and price point) but even that uses better hardware, has a higher clocked processor (528MHz instead of the 600 underclocked to 400MHz iPhone) and has far more standadised software (WM, and all the things that come with it).

I totally agree with the fact that WM6.1 devices have far more functionality. It's an OS that's been around longer in various vertical markets to mature with lot more development time. I doubt that iPhone's OS can touch that just yet.

But I do disagree with your view about Diamond and X1 having lot newer technologies and therefore they can charge more. If HTC and SonyEricsson viewed the competition that way, they would already have lost and there is no turning back. I seriously hope this is not the case.

Without a doubt, X1/Diamond has a great screen that's lot higher in resolution than the iPhone. They have better cameras...well...X1 probably will. Not sure about Diamond....my 8925 takes some crap pictures. X1/Diamond has faster CPU. Hardware keyboard is great (I have a hard time living without it...) These things on the surface are great. But when it comes to user experiences, it's a different story. Do you honestly think the non-fan-boys will care which technology is newer? How do you even define newer? Newer = better functionality, no? If that's the case, for lot of the users, X1/Diamond != newer. Some might argue that they are actually older...simply a evolutionary improvement on design that's years old.

iPhones have a big multi-touch screen that just looks great even at its lower resolution. It has a new generation OS that's based on a very old established OS (BSD)...so it's fast. If you put them side by side, nobody will believe you when you say that iPhone is 25% slower than X1/Diamond...because the iPhone OS is more responsive so it pretty much cancels that advantage. It only has a 2mpxl camera but man, it looks helluva lot better than pictures from my 8925 for some reason. It supports the same 4 GSM band / 3 HSDPA-UPA band that others do. It has support for wifi, bluetooth, etc. It has a great development environment that people are churning out software fast. It has a tilt sensor good enough to make games out of. Did you see the keynote with the apps from eBay and the Monkeyball game? Not too shabby. It comes with full exchange support and remote delete. It has OpenGL support. It comes with 8GB/16GB!!!

So if you present consumers with those choices, would anybody consider the iPhone 3G old technology? I doubt it. On the face value, for most of the consumers, all the advantage that you speak of that X1 and Diamond has...gets simply erased. iPhone's OS can be updated as it goes along since Apple seems lot more inclined to update/patch their software than MS as well. But I still don't get the no-MMS, no-video-recording on the iPhone. Just dumb.

I've been a big fan of X1. Until I saw the price for iPhone 3g. I sincerely hope Sony takes on the challenge and compete head on. But I will write X1/Diamond off if they come out at price point above $3-400 subsidized (in the US...not sure about pricing situation anywhere else). Better luck next round maybe?

Does HTC/Sony/Microsoft have the PR and marketing know-how to fight this and educate the consumer with the "no...our technology is newer" ? No they do not. Can they do anything to educate consumers with good solid pros and cons of their devices? (like the fact that iPhone only has 128MB of RAM and it will crash by simply closing the current app you are in if you run out of memory, etc?) I doubt it. But for now, maybe they can compete on price...and that's good for me.

On the plus side, don't you think HTC/Sony/Microsoft has something in the pipeline for the next generation that needs to leapfrog the iPhone? Maybe next X1 will have more than 512MB of storage space? ha ha ha.

Either way, as a consumer, iPhone 3G with exchange support breaks the status quo...and I'll have fun watching the industry take another step forward. I'm still praying for $200/300 Diamond/X1...well...I can dream, eh?

[l3v5y]

I totally agree with the fact that WM6.1 devices have far more functionality. It's an OS that's been around longer in various vertical markets to mature with lot more development time. I doubt that iPhone's OS can touch that just yet.

But I do disagree with your view about Diamond and X1 having lot newer technologies and therefore they can charge more. If HTC and SonyEricsson viewed the competition that way, they would already have lost and there is no turning back. I seriously hope this is not the case.

Without a doubt, X1/Diamond has a great screen that's lot higher in resolution than the iPhone. They have better cameras...well...X1 probably will. Not sure about Diamond....my 8925 takes some crap pictures. X1/Diamond has faster CPU. Hardware keyboard is great (I have a hard time living without it...) These things on the surface are great. But when it comes to user experiences, it's a different story. Do you honestly think the non-fan-boys will care which technology is newer? How do you even define newer? Newer = better functionality, no? If that's the case, for lot of the users, X1/Diamond != newer. Some might argue that they are actually older...simply a evolutionary improvement on design that's years old.

iPhones have a big multi-touch screen that just looks great even at its lower resolution. It has a new generation OS that's based on a very old established OS (BSD)...so it's fast. If you put them side by side, nobody will believe you when you say that iPhone is 25% slower than X1/Diamond...because the iPhone OS is more responsive so it pretty much cancels that advantage. It only has a 2mpxl camera but man, it looks helluva lot better than pictures from my 8925 for some reason. It supports the same 4 GSM band / 3 HSDPA-UPA band that others do. It has support for wifi, bluetooth, etc. It has a great development environment that people are churning out software fast. It has a tilt sensor good enough to make games out of. Did you see the keynote with the apps from eBay and the Monkeyball game? Not too shabby. It comes with full exchange support and remote delete. It has OpenGL support. It comes with 8GB/16GB!!!

So if you present consumers with those choices, would anybody consider the iPhone 3G old technology? I doubt it. On the face value, for most of the consumers, all the advantage that you speak of that X1 and Diamond has...gets simply erased. iPhone's OS can be updated as it goes along since Apple seems lot more inclined to update/patch their software than MS as well. But I still don't get the no-MMS, no-video-recording on the iPhone. Just dumb.

I've been a big fan of X1. Until I saw the price for iPhone 3g. I sincerely hope Sony takes on the challenge and compete head on. But I will write X1/Diamond off if they come out at price point above $3-400 subsidized (in the US...not sure about pricing situation anywhere else). Better luck next round maybe?

Does HTC/Sony/Microsoft have the PR and marketing know-how to fight this and educate the consumer with the "no...our technology is newer" ? No they do not. Can they do anything to educate consumers with good solid pros and cons of their devices? (like the fact that iPhone only has 128MB of RAM and it will crash by simply closing the current app you are in if you run out of memory, etc?) I doubt it. But for now, maybe they can compete on price...and that's good for me.

On the plus side, don't you think HTC/Sony/Microsoft has something in the pipeline for the next generation that needs to leapfrog the iPhone? Maybe next X1 will have more than 512MB of storage space? ha ha ha.

Either way, as a consumer, iPhone 3G with exchange support breaks the status quo...and I'll have fun watching the industry take another step forward. I'm still praying for $200/300 Diamond/X1...well...I can dream, eh?
Whilst the iPhone may have more storage built in, I could plug a 32GB MicroSD card into the newer devices and have double the available memory...

Okay, so the iPhones interface is quite nice, but think about it, all that interface is is a launcher. The size of the icons is about that of the Programs menu in WM, just hide the start bar and softkeys, and it does the same thing. Or, you can just get a program like iFonz (for free without Apple raping you for not having as a signed app) and do it better with more options for that one program than for the entire iPhone.

The "MultiTouch" (for me, the only advantage of the iPhone) is under used, very few programs use it at all, and those that do have limited functionality than can be bettered using hardware buttons. The same is true for the rotation sensor, and the Diamond (and the Raphael for that matter) has a tilt sensor that can be used for games as well (see the press release of it for something on that).

Apple has finally realised that an SDK and opening up the software may help, but for WM, you've been able to develop apps since its release, with many different IDEs and SDKs. There are far more programs and developers for WM than for the iPhone because it is far easier to develop for, and not restricted by WM (although there are some certificate checks, they can easily be disabled).

Add to that the fact that although the "new", "revolutionary" (both terms are utter crap, the technology is not new, and neither is the implementation. The only "new" thing is the marketing) iPhone will actually be more expensive over the two year minimum contract on AT&T, it seems even less attractive.

People seem to be comparing the Raphael and X1 as the competition for the iPhone, and that is plain wrong. They are the next tier above the iPhone, the have hardware keyboards and other business features, where as the iPhone has a "revolutionary" music player (a repacked version of the same software used on all their "revolutionary" music systems), and a browser that is worse than the beta versions of Opera Mobile 9.5... The competition for the iPhone is the Diamond, with its user friendly UI, but the ability to use it as a different device, with a proper OS and some form of functionality.

If you look at HTCs pricing strategy, you will see what I mean: They have the low end, Touch (the original one) device, with higher end devices (Touch Dual etc) with different functionality and newer technology, leading up to the Kaiser etc with the latest and greatest (maybe without drivers) technology, but even with some lackings, they still do far more than the iPhone. Even the Original Touch does more!

I can see that the iPhone may seem attractive with its excellent marketing, but seriously, what can it do better than my Prophet running WM6.1, with some apps from XDA-Devs?

[Blowfish64]

seriously, what can it do better than my Prophet running WM6.1, with some apps from XDA-Devs?

Use a responsive OS?

[l3v5y]

Use a responsive OS?Umm... With my own ROM, I can probably do things faster than the iPhone, and I annoyed the last person to say their iPhone was faster by loading up iFonz and then crushing the iPhone with the superior loading times, and the fact I could play music in the background whilst having youtube in the foreground...

[jellycow]

I've never said iPhone is just as advanced as devices from HTC or whatever. My point is that for $200 (free in some European networks), it kicks it to the curve in terms of value proposition, and HTC and Sony needs to step up (which is what I want them to do). I can't imagine a single consumer/typical business phone users in the market thinking about the state of things the way you are describing. We'll see how numbers turn in next few quarters, but with economy the way it is, I can't see that many business users around me clamoring to spend double the money for an HTC device.

Whilst the iPhone may have more storage built in, I could plug a 32GB MicroSD card into the newer devices and have double the available memory...


SanDisk et al barely is at about 16GB with microSDHC that they hope to ship sometime this month for over $200 (their 12GB card is $179.99). 32GB are at least 5-6 months away.

The same is true for the rotation sensor, and the Diamond (and the Raphael for that matter) has a tilt sensor that can be used for games as well (see the press release of it for something on that).

I doubt that 2 devices out of 100's that support a feature will result in apps supporting that feature in the future. With its both pros/cons, having a single OS/Hardware provider does give Apple bit more control on what they can manage.

Add to that the fact that although the "new", "revolutionary" (both terms are utter crap, the technology is not new, and neither is the implementation. The only "new" thing is the marketing) iPhone will actually be more expensive over the two year minimum contract on AT&T, it seems even less attractive.

I used to pay $40 a month for unlimited 3G using my 8925. If I were to decide to switch to the iPhone, I'll save $10 a month. I know people bring up this point about how iPhone's new 3G plan is more expensive, but it's not. I know people with AT&T BlackJack2 that's paying $40 a months as well. (I finally figured out my old 3125 smartphone plan product code so I'm back to $20 a month for unlimited internet...not sure if it's capped at Edge, but it'll do for Exchange uses)

People seem to be comparing the Raphael and X1 as the competition for the iPhone, and that is plain wrong. They are the next tier above the iPhone, the have hardware keyboards and other business features, where as the iPhone has a "revolutionary" music player (a repacked version of the same software used on all their "revolutionary" music systems), and a browser that is worse than the beta versions of Opera Mobile 9.5... The competition for the iPhone is the Diamond, with its user friendly UI, but the ability to use it as a different device, with a proper OS and some form of functionality.

I'm not sure if consumers will see it this way. I personally find keyboard a must...but I troll these forums for new ROMs and such continously. I honestly don't know a single person around me (very tech savvy users but not HTC fanboys) that won't consider the iPhone 3G next to a HTC Diamond Plus or X1. It's just economics.

I can see that the iPhone may seem attractive with its excellent marketing, but seriously, what can it do better than my Prophet running WM6.1, with some apps from XDA-Devs?

There is no one product that's better for everyone. Some will pick iPhone, some will pick the HTC. Competition is good. But I can see how iPhone is a more compelling package to consumers. So we'll see how people vote with their wallets.

[hambola]

Yeah the $200 price point is key. It will drive sales and they will hit their numbers.

As for the WM being as or more responsive than the iPhone OSX, I gotta challenge that statement. I don't know if it's due to lack of drivers or slow filesystem access time on our HTC devices, but many operations are pretty slow. Loading up thumbnails of all your pics is pretty slow whether in the HTC Album, Windows Picture Viewer, S2V, etc. Try loading up photos on an iPhone you'll see how fast it is. Going from one pic to the next is quick. zooming and panning is way more fluid then our devices. (Zooming is faster in HTC Album than Picture Viewer, but panning is more smooth in Picture Viewer than HTC Album, but both are crappier than on an iPhone).

This also applies to loading up audio files. If you have over 1000 audio files and try loading them up in HTC Audio Manager or WMP it will take at least 10 seconds before you get a response back.

How about the touch screen bug, I wonder if that's also in the Diamond, but that's ridiculous. You can multi-touch on an iPhone and not have lag. I touch the screen while a video is playing and it stutters. WTH.

Overall, I'm happy with my Cruise and can do way more with it than I could with an iPhone but there's no way our device is as smooth as an iPhone, let alone more.

My 0.02.

[l3v5y]

Yeah the $200 price point is key. It will drive sales and they will hit their numbers.

As for the WM being as or more responsive than the iPhone OSX, I gotta challenge that statement. I don't know if it's due to lack of drivers or slow filesystem access time on our HTC devices, but many operations are pretty slow. Loading up thumbnails of all your pics is pretty slow whether in the HTC Album, Windows Picture Viewer, S2V, etc. Try loading up photos on an iPhone you'll see how fast it is. Going from one pic to the next is quick. zooming and panning is way more fluid then our devices. (Zooming is faster in HTC Album than Picture Viewer, but panning is more smooth in Picture Viewer than HTC Album, but both are crappier than on an iPhone).

This also applies to loading up audio files. If you have over 1000 audio files and try loading them up in HTC Audio Manager or WMP it will take at least 10 seconds before you get a response back.

How about the touch screen bug, I wonder if that's also in the Diamond, but that's ridiculous. You can multi-touch on an iPhone and not have lag. I touch the screen while a video is playing and it stutters. WTH.

Overall, I'm happy with my Cruise and can do way more with it than I could with an iPhone but there's no way our device is as smooth as an iPhone, let alone more.

My 0.02.The $200 dollars works out more expensive over the 24 months, but my guess is Apple are just doing a marketing trick...

Almost every smartphone can be got for free on UK networks, with a lower monthly bill :p (I can get unlimited HSDPA - the UK have that - for less than about $20 a month).

The "touch screen bug" is not something I've ever suffered form...

With WMP, it has this "Library" feature that significantly reduces the time to find music!

Maybe the iPhone can handle images better, but that is about all it can do. You can't send them without e-mail, and you can't take video!

[l3v5y]

I've never said iPhone is just as advanced as devices from HTC or whatever. My point is that for $200 (free in some European networks), it kicks it to the curve in terms of value proposition, and HTC and Sony needs to step up (which is what I want them to do). I can't imagine a single consumer/typical business phone users in the market thinking about the state of things the way you are describing. We'll see how numbers turn in next few quarters, but with economy the way it is, I can't see that many business users around me clamoring to spend double the money for an HTC device.I got my Prophet for free on orange... On a £20 a month contract (about $50 dollars when I got it...) and that was very shortly after its release...

SanDisk et al barely is at about 16GB with microSDHC that they hope to ship sometime this month for over $200 (their 12GB card is $179.99). 32GB are at least 5-6 months away.

16GB s still more than the iPhone has (700MB is taken by the OS...), and with many UK devices free rather than the £269 of the iPhone (2G that is) it was cheaper to get a Kaiser and a huge microSD card, than the iPhone on the same contract...
I doubt that 2 devices out of 100's that support a feature will result in apps supporting that feature in the future. With its both pros/cons, having a single OS/Hardware provider does give Apple bit more control on what they can manage.Okay, so limited, but even two devices will be able to get apps as there are far more WM devs and users than iPhone users and devs...

I used to pay $40 a month for unlimited 3G using my 8925. If I were to decide to switch to the iPhone, I'll save $10 a month. I know people bring up this point about how iPhone's new 3G plan is more expensive, but it's not. I know people with AT&T BlackJack2 that's paying $40 a months as well. (I finally figured out my old 3125 smartphone plan product code so I'm back to $20 a month for unlimited internet...not sure if it's capped at Edge, but it'll do for Exchange uses)On UK networks, the iPhone 2G was £35 a month including unlimeted edge... I could get similar spec devices, with unlimited 3G for less than that at the same time as the iPhone was "revolutionising" mobile internet.
I'm not sure if consumers will see it this way. I personally find keyboard a must...but I troll these forums for new ROMs and such continously. I honestly don't know a single person around me (very tech savvy users but not HTC fanboys) that won't consider the iPhone 3G next to a HTC Diamond Plus or X1. It's just economics.

The Raphael and X1 are a different level of device. The Diamond is the only device of similar specs, and even that does far more than the iPhone can ever do (even if you can "develop" for the platform).

There is no one product that's better for everyone. Some will pick iPhone, some will pick the HTC. Competition is good. But I can see how iPhone is a more compelling package to consumers. So we'll see how people vote with their wallets.The thing is that I don't see it as "competition", I see the iPhone as a consumer device which thinks it can be useful in the business context and can be sold like that, where as WM really is useful in the business context, and can be got for less... They are completely different devices with different uses. The iPhone is not a smart phone, and that is why Apples marketing is so incredibly annoying to me.

[Rudegar]

"My point is that for $200 (free in some European networks)"

here the networks are forced when they make comercials to state the collected
price of what one pays as min in the whole being tried down period

it's always more then what an unlocked phone cost even if the price of the phone is 0.1€ which many are

http://www.internettablettalk.com/images/o2iphone.gif

18 * 45£ is still 1576.8 us $ / 1021€ in all which is more then i would use in 18months with my local subscription even if i got a 546£ unlocked iphone

[l3v5y]

"My point is that for $200 (free in some European networks)"

here the networks are forced when they make comercials to state the collected
price of what one pays as min in the whole being tried down period

it's always more then what an unlocked phone cost even if the price of the phone is 0.1€ which many are

http://www.internettablettalk.com/images/o2iphone.gif

18 * 45£ is still 1576.8 us $ / 1021€ in all which is more then i would use in 18months with my local subscription even if i got a 546£ unlocked iphoneThe iPhone is just being marketed to make it seem attractive in the hope that consumers are too entranced to notice the fact that apple will still be making the same amount (if not more) from them.

[jellycow]

The iPhone is just being marketed to make it seem attractive in the hope that consumers are too entranced to notice the fact that apple will still be making the same amount (if not more) from them.

At least in the US, without a doubt, the new iPhone 3G plan will save me money over the plan that I used to have for Kaiser/8925. Worst case, I'll come out the same. Might be different elsewhere. I do know that it's being offered free in some of the markets.

16GB s still more than the iPhone has (700MB is taken by the OS...), and with many UK devices free rather than the £269 of the iPhone (2G that is) it was cheaper to get a Kaiser and a huge microSD card, than the iPhone on the same contract...

You are reaching. If you are gonna complain about the iPhone, do it right....I don't think iPhone's lack of expandable memory is that much of a big deal. 8GB/16GB built in for its price is pretty good. For you to say "I can spend another $200 to get where the iPhone is," is disengenuine. You'd never accept that argument the other way. I think Diamond Plus comes with 4GB, but still. It's not like people keep their phones for 4-5 years now anyway. Legitimate complaints of things that can't be fixed with software on the iphone: only 128MB of RAM (UGH!), non-user-replaceable battery (yeah AppleCare can take care of it...but still, lame.), wobbles on the table (at least it bugs me). Software issues that might get taken care of: No MMS??? No video recording. No Copy/Paste (Most consumers won't miss it...I need it). Other issues? Hmmm. New OS. Not enough Apps. Apple lock down. Etc. Lot of things that can be solved in time. Just like all of HTC/Sony/Nokia issues.

The iPhone is not a smart phone, and that is why Apples marketing is so incredibly annoying to me.

Your definition of a "smartphone" is skewed then. I have had the Nokia 9300i, SonyEricsson P900, eTen x500+, along with about 5 different HTC devices. I consider all of them to be a smartphone (PDA phones?) I have family members with the iPhone. Maybe iPhone 1 was just a fancy phone (until it was unlocked), but the new iPhone 3G with Exchange support is definitely a "smartphone" in all aspects of the term comparable to any I've had before. I hope HTC and Sony people don't think like you and they recognize a good threat when they see one...although I did read articles today about how HTC stated that they are not worried. There is definitely enough market for all and more than enough time for companies to adjust and compete. Besides, Nokia is still spanking all of them overall. But it's not where you are that's important, it's which direction you are going. I'd love to see what Nokia, HTC, Sony et al will counter with.

[hambola]

The $200 dollars works out more expensive over the 24 months, but my guess is Apple are just doing a marketing trick...

Almost every smartphone can be got for free on UK networks, with a lower monthly bill :p (I can get unlimited HSDPA - the UK have that - for less than about $20 a month).

The "touch screen bug" is not something I've ever suffered form...

With WMP, it has this "Library" feature that significantly reduces the time to find music!

Maybe the iPhone can handle images better, but that is about all it can do. You can't send them without e-mail, and you can't take video!

Compared to what we have in the US market, a $200 iPhone is a great deal. Check out this link, prices it against the Kaiser for 2 year plans, iPhone ends up being cheaper.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/06/12/comparing-the-iphone-s-quot-true-quot-price.aspx

http://gizmodo.com/5015540/iphone-3gs-true-price-compared

This is added to the fact that I bought my Cruise unlocked which was a helluva a lot more than the prices being quoted for the subsidized costs. So yeah $200 is a good price point for what you're getting.

When you say you've never suffered from it, does that mean you know about it, it just doesn't affect you or you're not even aware of it. Well if it's the former, then it does affect others, and that bug can limit certain types of software. If it's the latter then I can describe the actual problem.

The library feature is good, except for the fact that it's static. Try selecting Update Library and watch that progress bar go. It's been doing it for at least 10 minutes now.

Can't argue about it not taking video or not sending it out except Email. Sad that you can't send by BT or MMS. It's lame I agree. And if you email a photo to it, it couldn't save it from the email. But from what I recall from the keynote, the new firmware will allow you to save images attached in emails. about freakin time.

Ultimately I don't wanna get into this is better than that type discussion. Everyone's entitled to his own opinion and rarely does anyone change theirs through these types of discussions.

[Rudegar]

"The iPhone is not a smart phone, and that is why Apples marketing is so incredibly annoying to me."

i think it's a smartphone alright
and they are markting it as it is the
best thing since sliced bread and why
wouldn't they ?
this and any other business is about making money
to shareholders not to seem the just and freedom figthing
free stuff for the people provider
it whats makes the world go round ;)

[l3v5y]

"The iPhone is not a smart phone, and that is why Apples marketing is so incredibly annoying to me."

i think it's a smartphone alright
and they are markting it as it is the
best thing since sliced bread and why
wouldn't they ?
this and any other business is about making money
to shareholders not to seem the just and freedom figthing
free stuff for the people provider
it whats makes the world go round ;)
What does the iPhone do that could classify it as a smart phone? My ancient nokia can do the same things (and take video :p) in a less fluid way, but it's never been classed as a "Smartphone"

The whole iPhone concept is not be cutting edge (MMS, video etc could easily have been implemented) but to make people buy the next step up and make as much money as possible.

[l3v5y]

Compared to what we have in the US market, a $200 iPhone is a great deal. Check out this link, prices it against the Kaiser for 2 year plans, iPhone ends up being cheaper.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/06/12/comparing-the-iphone-s-quot-true-quot-price.aspx

http://gizmodo.com/5015540/iphone-3gs-true-price-compared

This is added to the fact that I bought my Cruise unlocked which was a helluva a lot more than the prices being quoted for the subsidized costs. So yeah $200 is a good price point for what you're getting.

When you say you've never suffered from it, does that mean you know about it, it just doesn't affect you or you're not even aware of it. Well if it's the former, then it does affect others, and that bug can limit certain types of software. If it's the latter then I can describe the actual problem.

The library feature is good, except for the fact that it's static. Try selecting Update Library and watch that progress bar go. It's been doing it for at least 10 minutes now.

Can't argue about it not taking video or not sending it out except Email. Sad that you can't send by BT or MMS. It's lame I agree. And if you email a photo to it, it couldn't save it from the email. But from what I recall from the keynote, the new firmware will allow you to save images attached in emails. about freakin time.

Ultimately I don't wanna get into this is better than that type discussion. Everyone's entitled to his own opinion and rarely does anyone change theirs through these types of discussions.
The Kaiser and iPhone are of different levels of product.

The Kaiser is clearly a business device, and I see very few purely "Consumer" (media based usage e.g. music, videos etc) users. The iPhone is not a business device. It can use exchange servers, but can't do anything with word documents and things like that... Compare the iPhone to consumer devices and you will find it is a lot more expensive...

[Rudegar]

"What does the iPhone do that could classify it as a smart phone?"

well smartphone is a generous term

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

so your ancient nokia could very well be seen as a smartphone too :)

[l3v5y]

"What does the iPhone do that could classify it as a smart phone?"

well smartphone is a generous term

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

so your ancient nokia could very well be seen as a smartphone too :)
often with PC-like functionality. I don't think so! :D (My nokia being a smartphone that is...)

For some, a smartphone is a phone that runs complete operating system software providing a standardized interface and platform for application developers. For others, a smartphone is simply a phone with advanced features.IMHO, the iPhone is not a smartphone (That better?)

[jellycow]

IMHO, the iPhone is not a smartphone (That better?)

Just out of curiosity, what's your definition of a smartphone?

You keep on saying 8925 is a business-class device and iPhone isn't. So, out of the box, from the carriers...what can my Kaiser/8925/Diamond/X1 do that iPhone 3G wouldn't be able to do in terms of business/smarthphone functionality? I'm not talking about quality of functionality...just about the activities themselves. iPhone 3G Exchange sync. It can read Word/Excel docs (it can't edit though). It has full Unicode support for input and output of various Unicode languages. It supports 3d party apps. Better yet, what if iPhone 3G allows Exchange sync push email over wifi??? (man...the fact that WinMo devices can't do this makes me mad...) What's iPhone 3G missing that it's not a smartphone/business phone?

[l3v5y]

Just out of curiosity, what's your definition of a smartphone?

You keep on saying 8925 is a business-class device and iPhone isn't. So, out of the box, from the carriers...what can my Kaiser/8925/Diamond/X1 do that iPhone 3G wouldn't be able to do in terms of business/smarthphone functionality? I'm not talking about quality of functionality...just about the activities themselves. iPhone 3G Exchange sync. It can read Word/Excel docs (it can't edit though). It has full Unicode support for input and output of various Unicode languages. It supports 3d party apps. Better yet, what if iPhone 3G allows Exchange sync push email over wifi??? (man...the fact that WinMo devices can't do this makes me mad...) What's iPhone 3G missing that it's not a smartphone/business phone?
Can't edit word documents.
Has limited functionality.
Can't edit documents at all.
Third party support is limited (apps can only be got through the iPhone based installer, and need to be signed by Apple)
I have my Prophet hooked up right now via WiFi and it seems to be getting emails before Outlook (both are hooked up to the same exchange server)
Also, the apps already on the iPhone are far more consumer orientated. How many of them are actually useful business wise?

[mariner_heart]

The main target buyers for Iphone are the people who are blown over by free-flowing user interface.
the iphone doesn't even seem to be attractive to me.

[jellycow]

Can't edit word documents.
My Cingular 3125 / HTC Star Trek couldn't edit Word docs. In fact, it really couldn't edit any docs. I think that phone is considered a smartphone. I loaded WinMo 6.1. It can do everything my 8925 can do now except edit docs (it's also missing a touch screen and a GPS). So I guess you don't consider StarTrek a smartphone? Or is it still because it's on the list of your approved OS's?

Bottom line is, each to his own. I doubt I'll be switching to the iPhone 3G simply because I don't see the need. Maybe when all the initial adopters work the bugs out, I might jump because I find it that it does everything my 8925 does.

But I don't have any subjective animosity toward any. Whatever makes my life easier, I'll take it. Phone is just a tool. What do you gain from being loyal to MS platform? Or any as a matter of fact? You find what you need. No point in hating iPhone simply because it's popular. It's like people hating Nokia and saying stuff like, "Nokia acts like they own the smartphone market, but that's simply because they classify lot of their classic handset as a smartphone." Whatever. Nokia makes great phones. Definitely not what I need, but it's great for lot of people. Same with the iPhone....especially with the droves of developers that they are attracting, it's should be interesting to keep an eye on them.

[mtkates]

I plan to stick with my Vogue until I can see what the raphael looks/feels like.

[nicofars]

"
i'll miss the full keyboard for sure. but i won't miss the instability for sure... "

agreed 100% for the instability !
I movedaway from PC a year ago, and it allows me NOT to be too geek when back at home and fix Windows, now I am looking to do the same with my PDA-phone, I just want one that works, yes I want to install additional apps from time to time, and it now seems that iPhone 2.0 will provided me with that.. except that it will be stable. (finger crossed) and cheaper

[Rudegar]

yeah i think i like/hate wm because it's like a pc
i use many of the same programs in wm versions as i do on pc

it's geek for sure

but i think i would miss it if i moved to an iphone as i dont think it got a reg to edit :P

[l3v5y]

"
i'll miss the full keyboard for sure. but i won't miss the instability for sure... "

agreed 100% for the instability !
I movedaway from PC a year ago, and it allows me NOT to be too geek when back at home and fix Windows, now I am looking to do the same with my PDA-phone, I just want one that works, yes I want to install additional apps from time to time, and it now seems that iPhone 2.0 will provided me with that.. except that it will be stable. (finger crossed) and cheaper
The iPhones I've used have crashed far more than my Prophet. Whether the iPhone 3G will change this remains to be seen though.

[gsessons]

The only way iPhone can get me to switch is, give me the option of what OS I can have. Because I'm a Mircosoft die hard fan, so wm6.1 and 7.0 would make me change. Did I mention that I don't even think the iPhone can tether.........What do you guys and gals think about the new Samsung Omnia, it looks workable but only thing I see as a down fall is the resolution is just a little bit better the the Tilt (that I already have). I think if they made the resolution a little bit or a whole lot better, that phone would be upstoppable.

[motivecc]

About the iPhone, 3G & GPS are not new things. Neither is push Exchange support. My cruise has been doing that for awhile now. and the kaiser even longer. The interesting thing is that while Apple is still releasing firmware updates a year later that drastically improve the features available for their device, HTC ignores any software updates for ours and just releases new hardware devices. I don't think Apple's business model is too bad. They don't release several different models and a new phone every few months. They have one device and continue to support it. I realize HTC gives us choices with different models which is great, but how about some support or updates? Nevermind the fact that WM6 updates are a freakin joke. 6.1 added what, some lame IE "features" and threaded SMS?? come on. seriously.

they don't? take a look at their ipods... steve jobs also publicly says over and over again that he believes every six months apple ipod users should BUY the next generation ipod, you call that a good business model? sure they may be doing good with the iphone, but i'm not about apples business model at all...

apple is about flash and pinazz, not good business... thats what the US likes, they simply know how to make things cool and functional, doesn't necessarily make them the best

[l3v5y]

they don't? take a look at their ipods... steve jobs also publicly says over and over again that he believes every six months apple ipod users should BUY the next generation ipod, you call that a good business model? sure they may be doing good with the iphone, but i'm not about apples business model at all...

apple is about flash and pinazz, not good business... thats what the US likes, they simply know how to make things cool and functional, doesn't necessarily make them the bestThey only have one of each device at the same time... There is no device with an overlap (e.g. only one iPod Nano at a time...)

[htckaiseruser]

Never, im am a diehard HTC lover
But only if apple will make a device with A LOT of ram and rom and internal storage and a stable OS, the rest isnt that importent to me,like vga or threaded sms or that kind of stuff.
Just a lot of useable ram and rom and a qwerty keyboard will do it for me.
CANT WAIT TILL TOUCH PRO COMES OUT!!!!!!