To the mods and Admin and general users ...

[F2504x4]

I am seeing more and more dis-respectful replies to newbies then ever before, and it is getting old, all this does is run off potential new comers to this site who might be the next great cooker and spreads a not so good rep about this site


at the same time I see some mods have be respectful to others in there sigs. I think this should become policy across the forum period and those that are rude and disrespectful in their reply should get a vacation to let them know this is not to be tolerated IMO

This site is about growth and interest in these toys of ours, not about ripping newbies who may ask a question that maybe have been asked many times over, so what, why not just post a link to the search and to the Wiki and say welcome to the forums , instead of bashing them? It would leave a better taste in the newbs mouths and they might become a contributor in the future.


Also think about this, just how many of you cookers have something in your sig asking for a cup of coffee ? or Donate to XDA or Donations graciously accepted. Well if a newbie is made to feel welcomed and comfortable here , They are more then likely going leave you a little something.

Me , If I notice a rom cooker being rude, they are not very likely going to get anything from me even if they had something great and useful.

I just replied to a newbie that asked a simple question, but not before someone posted a B.S. reply, I instead answered it with something useful and promoted the search engine at the same time

This did two things, first the newbies was made to feel welcomed and also if someone was to search the same question, they would find a reasonable answer.

BTW B.S. replies just screw up the search results forcing newbies just ask questions instead of finding answers.

Flame away if you want or become part of the solution .

[chrisd1a1]

i agree,

there are times that newbs do need help. some of those who i have pointed in the right direction have tried to search, but either search the wrong thing or don't know what they are looking for.

it does work two ways and some of the mods and senior members are to be commended for their help. ( i can think of about 10 folks who go out of their way to help as many as possible and never rip a newb)

those who are helped are more likely to help others.

[mikealder]

I find it often takes longer to explain how to use the search facility properly to yield useable results than it takes to answer the specific question, but there is no excuse for rude replies, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike

[F2504x4]

Here is a good example of what I am talking about,

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=403829

This reply by kspirit did nothing to help this user ,

No , nothing like that runs on the tilt...

its these kind of responses that need to be curtailed.

Even though a mod did respond , he/she did nothing regarding the above users response. All this does is give the impression that this behavior is condoned .

I am not knocking the Moderator (I do find him to be very helpful) but they do have a huge influence on how others act on this site, and by not informing this above user that these types of replies are not helpful or uncalled for) they are giving the impression that it is okay.


Mods & Admin , what do you all think ? Am I off track here ?

[F2504x4]

Just wanted to add this:

If the mods were to take the time to edit the titles like this one " New AT&T Tilt Phone - Help" to something like this...Will software like HTC Home, Mobile Shell, Pocket Informant work on both the tilt & 8525?. or something along those lines.....

This would help with search engine results, Yea its abit more work for the mods to do this but it will help greatly in producing more viable search results .

Just a thought...

[AthenaLod]

i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!

[F2504x4]

i think what drives some ppl to be rude is the fact that the ppl who decided to ask a repeated question were told that they have to search for an existing answer before asking a new question, and that they decided not to do that and just post a new one, i think both are mistaken here, and the one with the question brought it on themselves. i really don't like rude answers, but!

Ahh do you search much ? this user did not ask the same question twice....

and there is no excuse for being rude, and so what if they had ? a simple link to the Wiki would be a very easy way to deal with it, and a welcome to the forum would get much better results.

why would I want to donate or promote this site in any form if all I got is ripped on ? hmmm

Like Mike has posted, if you don't like what you see simply move on rather than posting an offensive reply - Mike
This would yield better results .

[AthenaLod]

by "told" i meant that for example in the kaiser forum, the only sticky there is titled "**BEFORE YOU POST START HERE**" and it says "Read and search before posting. Reply to an existing thread before creating a new thread. Redundant threads will be closed." so, if somebody decides that he/she wants to just ignore this, he/she brought it on themselves. i don't do bad language, or encourage it, but, sometimes some ppl can be really so lazy to even do a search

[TheChampJT]

Just my personal opinion....

I've only been here for a few months and I have to say, I've seen more useless threads then ever before! Now, don't get me wrong, I love to help, and do all the time, but at some point, you see a junior on their first post asking something like, "How do I uninstall an app?", or "How do I turn the phone off?" So at some point of seeing these threads, someone will be a bit frustrated and point them to the search and wiki fetaures located on the top bar instead of a full answer. I fully understand your point, but like I said, these members who join just for a simple answer then after 10 minutes ask why nobody is helping can aggrivate all of us users who come here for new information on a daily basis. Especially when they start a thread, get an answer, and never return.

Look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065

Now in this post, this user was looking for a specific dialer, and of course it's impoosible to search for an image, but I did help. Actually at first, I was a bit mad at the fact they posted the image, but didn't ask in the thread they got the photo from, then realized the image wasn't from here. But after I saw that, I tried to give some info on it, but I can't spend time looking for something they want, but I can help, so I did.

I think I'm done typing :D, but I'll say this, when I first joined, actually being my first forum, I had a bunch of questions, I didn't feel a need to post a thread for one simple question. I actually spent about a week after work searching and going through a bunch of pages looking for info, and I found a lot!

Also, a suggestion, I asked this in the SPAM thread, how about putting a block on junior users poting new threads? It would prevent SPAM and these simple question threads.

[F2504x4]

It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..:confused:

[TheChampJT]

I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.

[pedmond]

Just wanted to say that F2504x4 (http://forum.xda-developers.com/member.php?u=790950) put the problem very articulately and I totally agree with him. Pointing out a mistake (such as not using the search facility) need not be done in a rude and dismissive way.

I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.

[F2504x4]

I don't think they aren't responding for any unknown reason, this topic has been discussed so many times, there is no interest in tackling this issue anymore.


They should be taking a interest in this.....if they are becoming numb to it , then they need to take a hard look at why they are a moderator, Sorry if this sounds harsh . Moderators are the leaders that others look to for guidance, they help set the tone of the community.

This is a great site, with a lot of great talent , but it will not take long before it becomes over shadowed with a darker side.

Continued growth is key to any forum and community , and running off new comers with not help with that.



Fact is you will always have newbs ignoring stickies and search engines , nothing will ever change that.

All this site can do is maintain a positive atmosphere , and continuing education to those that join .


So i ask again , what say you Admin and mods ?

Thank you pedmond for this , very well put.

I will just remind us that we were all noobs one day, and also that some people are more technically minded than others. What may seem to us a simple and trivial question is obviously not so for the one asking it.
Yesterday 07:49 PM

[swanlm]

It seems that mods and Admin are strangely silent regarding this topic......wonder why..:confused:

Don't really think the issue is with Mods and Admin. I do see a lot of evidence of them cleaning up threads if they're getting out of hand and sorting out users that are really getting obnoxious. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members. And certain new members seem to think the world is their private helpdesk and that the purpose of these forums is to instantly deal with their every need. Well in any large group you'll always get those that are unpleasant to deal with - that's life. There are just as many, maybe more, who're a real pleasure to deal with and try their best to help. I think if new members read the forum rules and were prepared to lurk a bit before posting, then they'd quickly get an idea of what types of questions to ask and how to get help.

So while I personally totally agree with your views on decent behaviour etc I don't think its an issue to get wound up about. If you can filter out some of the fluff, this site is still the best resource for our phones by far.

(But I've only got about 80 posts, so maybe I'll change my mind when I hit 100! ;))

[l3v5y]

What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?

I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.

When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.

Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.

[elpuerc0]

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2360488&posted=1#post2360488


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[F2504x4]

What are the Mods/Admins supposed to do? Ban every user?

I often tell people to search for things when they have one post, and have a very stupid question with a blatant answer. When they do that, they don't deserve to be treated with a great amount of respect.

When someone who has evidently searched around, and has clearly tried to solve their own problems and then as a last resort asks for help, I'm far more inclined to be generous with my time, and try to help them.

Some people are obnoxious and post without searching at all, but the admins/mods can't go and ban people because they were once an idiot.


Wow what a way to start off a reply :eek: Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO

First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.

what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065





As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .

[F2504x4]

. But the problem seems to be that certain people feel their post count is a license to have a go at the newer members.

while I agree with a lot of what you said, In the example I gave , its even the low post count members that are posting these less then helpful responses, so that is telling me that this a is trend that is spreading and the bad thing is that a mod even replied in the thread, and did nothing about the response given, they only quoted part of my reply about searching.... ( I am still wondering why...)

Btw I only started this thread after a lot of reading and seeing this trend become more common place.

[kyphur]

Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.

I'll quote this post of mine (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45):
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.

As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.

Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.

When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.

Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.

The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.

As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.

Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.

XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.

Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.

You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.

[F2504x4]

Good post and very worthwhile reading kyphur,
and I understand clearly why it was written.

Just be aware of this trend and its long term results...


Btw I have walked in Mod shoes , and understand the inner workings of forums, and it is no easy task managing a community.

Thanks for posting that.

[l3v5y]

Wow what a way to start off a reply :eek: Ban every user ?
I think you should re read what has been stated, I did not hint or say ban anyone..but if that is what it takes to effect a change then maybe it should be considered but it should be directed at those that are creating a un-friendly and less then helpful place . IMO

First off I have no problem with someone being told to search, its how they are being told and some of the un-called for comments that are becoming more and more common and is the real problem, go read the example I posted earlier.

what do you consider a worthy response in this thread ? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404065





As to the stupid questions , Idiots and respect, ahhh I thinks its way past beer thirty .
That was supposed to be a comment on the fact that there is not that much we can actually do...

Uncalled for comments, and flaming is stupid, but pointing someone to the "search" button, I feel, is perfectly justified.

The kind of response shown in that thread is taking it too far, but the people responding have been (from what I have seen) generally very helpful.

[elpuerc0]

Too many come here from other sites for the wrong reason. Many of the questions that get jumped, closed & merged really should have been asked at the AT&T or other carrier support forums.

I'll quote this post of mine (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45):

what nonsense...

I want to learn to cook and give back but you bulldozed over me and closed diallog period.

pffff

[F2504x4]

That was supposed to be a comment on the fact that there is not that much we can actually do...

Uncalled for comments, and flaming is stupid, but pointing someone to the "search" button, I feel, is perfectly justified.

The kind of response shown in that thread is taking it too far, but the people responding have been (from what I have seen) generally very helpful.



whoa there......."not much we can actually do"?????????? WOW.... come on now , you cannot be serious ....

[l3v5y]

whoa there......."not much we can actually do"?????????? WOW.... come on now , you cannot be serious ....
What can we do to stop people? We can suggest they don't do things, but for people who insist on "Search" and nothing else, they probably won't change things.

[kyphur]

what nonsense...

I want to learn to cook and give back but you bulldozed over me and closed diallog period.

pffff


Incorrect, you were pointed in the right direction. Why start a brand new thread to ask questions already answered in threads you had visited but DID NOT WANT TO READ?

If you truly wanted to learn how to cook Roms then you would have read the Rom Kitchen thread completely. You would have grabbed the Rom Kitchen Tutorial Videos that another member spent their time creating. Every question you asked was already covered in 3 threads or less and each of those threads were listed together in the Wiki under Rom Cooking.

You my little Piggy are a perfect example of this. You got offended because you were directed towards the answer instead of being given the answer.

To be honest, if you don't put more effoert into it you'll probably brick your device and never cook a Rom.

I have always done everything I can to encourage new Rom Chefs. I started cooking back in the days when this info wasn't so easily shared and 90% of the tools in use today didn't exist. Most chefs back then didn't like to share the how of what they were doing so lerning meant reading thread upon thread about each little step in the process. I spent a lot of time in the command line and used tools that predate Christ.

This is why all of my Roms retain the rgu & dms files, it makes them chef friendly. I encourage any chef who life my Roms to use it as a base, pick it apart and see how I do it.

BTW, just this morning I had to bring out the Big Hammer of Kyphur on a (not so junior) Member, see here (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=404904). So This isn't a anti-nOOb thing.

[F2504x4]

Someone read this thread and tell me what the rational was behind the last post :confused: The user stated that he was using the search and still not finding whe answer he was seeking....and some good responses were given to HELP the user in question, yet this was posted .

link to the thread in question
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=434499
link to the last post..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2752160&postcount=19

On Edit: this was posted and asked in the general section of the forum pertaining to the device

[Registerme]

Well here are my personal rules for using this forum:


Read until you found the question.
If it's not in this forum find it elsewhere
When you found it elsewhere, post it here
If you found nonesense or gibberish, explain it to newbies
Don't post anything if you can't follow up


Of course they are not written down like this or hanging on the wall, but it's a summary of my attitude towards this and some other forums. Everyone starts as a beginner but can already contribute after a few hours of research.