[PROB] TouchPro GPS lag problems

[noellenchris]

Well, as my audio is in the right place but the image is not, I guess this makes me a candidate to try your suggestion Sleuth255.

Noob question, but will TomTom Home have a fit if I flash a new radio (I'm only on 1.02.25.28) and ROM to my device? I don't really want to have to pay for the software a second time.

Also Sleuth, my 8gig SD card is only a class 2. Would that screw up the comparison?

Flashing your radio will not affect TT license. If you haven't Security Unlocked your radio, you can flash only the Rafael radio's. I would try the M1. If you have security unlocked your radio, flash the BS radio Sleuth is using.

Your SD card should be fine since the PDA's internal transfer rate isn't that fast. Have fun and good luck...:)

[Ouzo]

Thanks noellenchris, I'd read about security unlocking in mskips' tutorial for noob's, but never got round to doing it as it wasn't necessary to go from stock (.19 for me) to .28. I had COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN about it too, so thanks very much indeed for reminding me :)

If I had brains I'd be dangerous ; )

[kavi]

I've never had a call come in while using the GPS. Sorry.

Read through this (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=448008) thread. Leaving the SIM/SD cards out is a bit excessive and completely unnecessary IMHO but the rest is good stuff. You need to get to hardspl before doing anything. No CID unlocking is necessary when its installed. Blackstone radio is your last test and may be unnecessary. It will cost you to go there anyway since you need to security unlock to run it.

Sleuth,

Flashed the stock SPL and the TP is in the box ready to be returned today.

After reading rest of the thread going to Hard SPL again and go with 2.04 and M1 will report back later today.

BTW: I did try the 2.06 and M1 and the lock times were excellent but still had the lag issues.

[Da_G]

Did some testing while driving around, running a program in the background to eat cpu cycles.. to see if the priority would be causing this issue..

With my cpu near 100% and barely able to update the screen, it was still showing the same lag behavior. :( (if priority affected it, it would get far, far worse)

Even odder, the debug log shows:

12:56:10 [D:GPS] GPS: [ProcessPollData] --- g_hStateChangeEvent Received!
========POSITION REPORT========
valid 0Xfffdfyear = 2009, mon = 1, day = 18, h = 20, min = 56, sec = 11, ms = 200

The GPS timestamp was about 300ms ahead of the phone timestamp..

what the heck? :)

[Da_G]

It would be slightly difficult, but diagnostically useful, if we could set up the following test:

HTC GPS Tool with NMEA Logging enabled
GPSID_HTC.dll with NMEA logging enabled
debugtool with GPS position report logging enabled

that would give us 3 different sources of data - the debug log would give us the raw output from gpsdriver.dll's position report, the NMEA log from gpsid_htc would give us the output after GPSID's processing, and HTC GPS Tool would spit out the final NMEA log that the application sees.. we could sync the times up for all 3 and verify that everything's hunky dory at each point in the pipeline.. that should conclusively narrow it down to either 'graphics lag' or 'something lower level than gpsdriver.dll', at least :)

[kavi]

Here's the test results on 2.04, M1 and regfix

1. Lag is still there, almost the same with 2.06.
2. End call (on BT) signal lost/re-lock still exists
3. Warm lock varies

[dharvey4651]

A. With Advanced config 3.2 http://www.touchxperience.com/fr/outil-de-configuration-avancee/telechargements/40-advanced-configuration-tool-downloads/9-advanced-configuration-tool-32-cab.html

1. disable A-GPS
2. disable GPS logging
3. logfile name must be empty
4. old logfile name must be empty
5. maximum size of logfile must be 0
6 delete the files : \windows\GPSLogFile.txt and \windows\GPSLogFileBack.txt

7. it seems that if TomTom is installed on a fast microSD decrease the lag(have to test to be sure)

What registry changes are these? I can make a cab file that will make all of these changes if you can provide those registry changes above.

[NLS]

It has already been done (and more than once).

[Sleuth255]

Here's the test results on 2.04, M1 and regfix

1. Lag is still there, almost the same with 2.06.
2. End call (on BT) signal lost/re-lock still exists
3. Warm lock varies

I've no experience with the M1 radio. I only ran it for a short time during testing for "nan" in $GPVTG. I've used .28 and blackstone .25

While I can't speak empirically to points 2 & 3, you've definitely stumped the chump on point 1. IOW, if you have the same hardware and are now running the same software from TT -> ROM -> Radio, then how can your results be different from mine :confused:

Answer has to = hardware variances or it really has to be either the 1.02.10.28 Raphael or 1.10.25.25 Blackstone radio or your baseline was somehow different from mine (ie: you ran cabs that I didn't or I ran cabs that you didn't).

The only interesting point I can see is your observation of "Voice sync" during guidance.

One thing I will be doing this afternoon is a 32 mile run from Atlanta to Norcross. For the first time, I'll be relying on my fuze for navigation while driving on a variety of roads. If there is some time related issue that makes my Fuze unusable for navigation then it'll come up then.

[Ouzo]

This may be off topic, but I have an idea...

HTC Europe have agreed that I can send my Pro into one of their service centres. In the end this was partly due to my GPS problems, and partly the 'broken screen' corruptions and the screen showing what looks like 'snow' on an old analogue TV. As Kavi doesn't seem to have made any progress by using Da_G's ROM or the BS radio, I'm now inclined to take HTC up on their offer and see what happens.

If my phone is returned and the lag problem has gone away, would there be any way to tell if anything inside had been changed? (main board?) IE, would a 'before' and 'after' snapshot of the registry highlight anything, or would inspecting the hardware itself be the only way to tell?

I only ask because I'm wondering if there ARE hardware differences as Sleuth suggests, or perhaps if, due to some unknown problem during mass production, some of us just have partially defective phones. It does seem really weird that some of us have big lag problems and others either don't or can tune most of it away....

[s.bonito]

@noellenchris

I couldn't find any lags you asked for. Last weekend I travelled around 2000 kilometer through germany. Only "the frames per seconds" are a little bit to less. BUT this has nothing to do with the gps-settings or the software. I use garmin mobile xt, just one time I needed to make a soft-reset. :cool:

[kavi]

I've no experience with the M1 radio. I only ran it for a short time during testing for "nan" in $GPVTG. I've used .28 and blackstone .25

While I can't speak empirically to points 2 & 3, you've definitely stumped the chump on point 1. IOW, if you have the same hardware and are now running the same software from TT -> ROM -> Radio, then how can your results be different from mine :confused:

Answer has to = hardware variances or it really has to be either the 1.02.10.28 Raphael or 1.10.25.25 Blackstone radio or your baseline was somehow different from mine (ie: you ran cabs that I didn't or I ran cabs that you didn't).

The only interesting point I can see is your observation of "Voice sync" during guidance.

One thing I will be doing this afternoon is a 32 mile run from Atlanta to Norcross. For the first time, I'll be relying on my fuze for navigation while driving on a variety of roads. If there is some time related issue that makes my Fuze unusable for navigation then it'll come up then.

I think the lag variances are hardware related since I didn't install anything else but TT7 and regfix cab file.

Last Friday I was relying on the Fuze to get me to my destination and it really let me down, specially with the end call signal lost - just drove me nuts.

[fourcc]

I've no experience with the M1 radio. I only ran it for a short time during testing for "nan" in $GPVTG. I've used .28 and blackstone .25

While I can't speak empirically to points 2 & 3, you've definitely stumped the chump on point 1. IOW, if you have the same hardware and are now running the same software from TT -> ROM -> Radio, then how can your results be different from mine :confused:

Answer has to = hardware variances or it really has to be either the 1.02.10.28 Raphael or 1.10.25.25 Blackstone radio or your baseline was somehow different from mine (ie: you ran cabs that I didn't or I ran cabs that you didn't).

The only interesting point I can see is your observation of "Voice sync" during guidance.

One thing I will be doing this afternoon is a 32 mile run from Atlanta to Norcross. For the first time, I'll be relying on my fuze for navigation while driving on a variety of roads. If there is some time related issue that makes my Fuze unusable for navigation then it'll come up then.


i also think that there are HW differences between TP devices.

For example, for me, BS 1.10.25.25 has produced a lot of drop calls (in fact all the calls i did) and bad GPS FIX times. I can understand that becasue as I have Orange in Spain, this radio shouldn't be so Great for me as it is for others with different operators and localization. But what about GPS FIX times, localization & operator shouldn't affect at all.

A part, i suspect another thing, there are strange behaviours using the same ROM + Radio + REG fixes. When i just flashed my Device using Proven Rom 1.12 & M1 Radio, after update QGPS just after flashing & softresetting i got cold Start GPS fixes of less than 15 seconds and warm start with 6 seconds. After some days, using the same config, i've not been able to repeat them. Now i'm at 30 seconds and 15 respectively, not bad but no so good than when just after flashing it. And i've had the same experience flashing 1.08 & also with different radios such as Experia 1.10.25.18. When trying to Fix GPS after a flashing, cold start & warm GPS fixes are always very good, after some days, they become not as good.

Weird!:confused:

[NLS]

no so much

it probably stores something somewhere that instead of helping - messes things up

[fourcc]

no so much

it probably stores something somewhere that instead of helping - messes things up

ok, maybe, but this mess is not in the usual GPS reg entries & gps drivers for sure.

[NLS]

if this is definite - then it's a file somewhere

[Da_G]

Sleuth255:

Don't forget, aside from software, registry settings, and radio rom, there is also NVRAM parameters.. it is quite likely that for different batches, etc, there are different NVRAM parameters in use..

[fourcc]

Sleuth255:

Don't forget, aside from software, registry settings, and radio rom, there is also NVRAM parameters.. it is quite likely that for different batches, etc, there are different NVRAM parameters in use..

ufff! too advanced for me. i'm lost :confused:

[Da_G]

When the system first boots, in the early stages (first handful of seconds after poweron) the chipset needs to know certain things about the hardware it's attached to.. how much voltage to supply to the LCD to turn it on, for example.. in the case of the GPS there are about 20 settings related to it..

A quick google brings up this:
http://old.3533.com/uploadtest/2008/3/27/3533_211122017.jpg
Our gpsOne configuration is probably pretty similar looking. These settings are stored in NVRAM (Non-Volatile RAM) and are read during bootup and operation of the device.. we need access to the radio ROM to be able to configure these settings.. i've been trying for some time now o.O

[fourcc]

thanks for the explanation, but again, too advanced for me.
We regular XDA users are lucky for being part of a forum like this one full of "Masters" that discover such interestings things that make our Devices working better than how were released by the manufacturer. (sorry if my english is not clear enough)

[Sleuth255]

Sleuth255:

Don't forget, aside from software, registry settings, and radio rom, there is also NVRAM parameters.. it is quite likely that for different batches, etc, there are different NVRAM parameters in use..

Not forgetting but it appears that Kavi and I even share same device variant/operator.

You'd think that NVRAM changes here would be less likely unless AT&T is actively trying to discourage standalone navigator use in favor of their pay-as-you-go Navigator (which would have built in correction for the positional variance of course).

Now why would they ever want to do that I wonder :rolleyes:

[noellenchris]

@noellenchris

I couldn't find any lags you asked for. Last weekend I travelled around 2000 kilometer through germany. Only "the frames per seconds" are a little bit to less. BUT this has nothing to do with the gps-settings or the software. I use garmin mobile xt, just one time I needed to make a soft-reset. :cool:

Thanks for the update. TT7 is working great for me. But it's only the free map. Garmin still lags in position. I also realized that our stand alone garmin also lags about 2 sec. Glad to hear yours is lag free...Still working on getting mine to work that way.:)

[Da_G]

oi, this issue drives me up the wall :)

remember how before I said the gpsdriver.dll was reporting a timestamp 1 second behind the cell network, and that pointed to some lag further up in the system.. well..

14:23:27 [D:GPS] GPS: [ProcessPollData] --- g_hStateChangeEvent Received!
========POSITION REPORT========
valid 0Xfffdfyear = 2009, mon = 1, day = 19, h = 22, min = 23, sec = 29, ms = 500

now i'm getting position reports 2 seconds AHEAD of the cell system.. lol

i think i've just about exhausted options i can influence other than nvram..

[noellenchris]

Any chance that HTC will release an updated radio ...what about the latest Quartz radio? Number wise it's the newest...

[Neoo330]

Hi all, i dont think, that there is hardware problems on touch pro, because before i bout TP i was on Diamond an there was thesame GPS isues. BUT on some costum ROM's and what is most important thing ON ORIGNAL ROM, GPS lag was't at all for me ...
I'm using Lantis RC1, its great ROM, but TT7 lag is bad, just tried instal TT on my memory card, and now its even worst :(
Sorry, about my english :p

[maw]

Hi all

I saw that there is a new Blackstone Radio 1.09.25.35, anyone tried it already?? I was reading the thread over at ROM development and it seems this one is even better than the BS Radio 1.10.25.25 version. Anyway, just wondering if you guys tried it out and if there are any changes that will improve the GPS reception, maybe something for Da_G and Sleuth to investigate.....

[noellenchris]

Hi all

I saw that there is a new Blackstone Radio 1.09.25.35, anyone tried it already?? I was reading the thread over at ROM development and it seems this one is even better than the BS Radio 1.10.25.25 version. Anyway, just wondering if you guys tried it out and if there are any changes that will improve the GPS reception, maybe something for Da_G and Sleuth to investigate.....

I haven't tried it yet, there is also the new Quartz and the number is even newer than the BS ones. I'm really close to just trying the quartz to see if HTC has made any NVRam changes.....hmm...:confused:

[mindfrost82]

The Blackstone Radio 1.09.25.35 doesn't seem any different.

I'm getting EXCELLENT battery life, the usualy EXCELLENT call quality of the other BS radios, a little better reception than the 1.10.25.25 radio.

GPS seems the same though.

Its almost 3:30pm here now, I took my phone off the charger at 8am this morning and the battery just now went down to 99%. I just soft reset and its at 95%, but that's still ALOT better than any other radio I've tried. Even if its just sitting idle, its usually down to about 85% by now or lower.

I haven't tried the Quartz radio, but the last Quartz one didn't have the call quality the BS radios have had.

IMO, NO radio has beat any of the BS radios in terms of call quality. The M1 radio was actually close, but I had a ton of dropped calls with that one, even though they were clear lol.

[p50kombi]

I haven't tried it yet, there is also the new Quartz and the number is even newer than the BS ones. I'm really close to just trying the quartz to see if HTC has made any NVRam changes.....hmm...:confused:

I tried both 1.09 BS and Quartz.
Quartz is a definite battery drainer.
Didn't get a chance to try the GPS, but flashed phone last night with Quartz radio and this morning it was down to 40 %, with no use overnight.
Whereas BS radio just kept their charge, or maybe lost 1% at most.
SO flashed back the 1.09 BS radio this morning.
Just a tip ;)

[maw]

Okay thanks for the feedback on the new BS and Quartz radio. Since no major improvements, I'll still with the radio I have until HTC either comes with a new ROM or Radio for the Touch Pro.....

[Black1982]

One strange thing: After using Sleuth's registry settings cab (the 1 that had the typo adding the registry key):
My GPS programs: TT7, GPS Test, BeelineGPS, don't show any "birds".
I can get a fix fast enought, but the are no
bars indicating visible birds, TT7 doesn't show any active, but it functions normally.

Anyone?:confused:

Something to do with buffers?

[hopper13]

Huh? Typo? What typo? Now I'm concerned! lol

[Black1982]

Huh? Typo? What typo? Now I'm concerned! lol

The cab added: HKLM\SYSTEM\Cur0rentControlSet. No big deal, just deleted it.
Don't be alarmed :)

[hopper13]

Don't see that in my registry. I must have missed the typo! :-)

All is running well with the registry tweaks, pretty much no position latency. Now the question is: Do I have the guts to learn to sim unlock and flash the blackstone radio to cure the time to lock/Quickgps/a-gps issue?

[Black1982]

Don't see that in my registry. I must have missed the typo! :-)

All is running well with the registry tweaks, pretty much no position latency. Now the question is: Do I have the guts to learn to sim unlock and flash the blackstone radio to cure the time to lock/Quickgps/a-gps issue?

Maybe this isn't necessary. I don't know much about this issue, but if its about getting a fix quickly you should try GPSToday as mentioned in this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=467374

It seems to be very good at getting a fix and getting it quickly. I tried it yesterday and i could get a fix in my room in a few seconds.
Normally i used Googlemaps to get a fix quickly, but this app seems to be even better. (I didn't have time to do more elaborate tests)
I was a bit sceptic, but it seems to work very well!

I'm still with my original rom and radio, so I'm not the best person to help you with flashing:o

[mindfrost82]

This morning I ran my TP next to my Kaiser again.

One thing I noticed is that the Kaiser seems to use some sort of speed algorithm to "make up" for the position lag. While passing intersections it is a little more accurate than my TP, but when coming to a stop at an intersection the Kaiser overshot the intersection by 20+ feet and my TP stopped just before it like it should have.

This makes me wonder if the Kaiser is trying to guess the correct position somehow based on speed rather than using the true GPS reading, which I'm guessing would show the same position lag as the TP.

My Kaiser has all of the default reg settings for GPS. I might try changing them so they match the TP and see what happens.

[mike99]

Hello,

Here is just a thought. I am not a PC pro, but here are my own observations as well as posts from ppcgeeks and XDA site.

TP uses the same GPS chip set as the older models, such as mogul, tilt ....
There was no lag using previous devices.
The TP GPS position is accurate when stationery or moving slowly.
Lag increases with increasing speed with most apps, including live search, google maps, Sprint TeleNav.
Voice commands are usually very accurate and on time.

The big difference between TP and older devices is the screen. Resolution is much higher, and so it has to process many more pixels.

Could the lag be due to the display delay, not the GPS module.
Can that be solved with better drivers or ported drivers from other devices?
Can GPS based programs be adjusted to lower resolution to save processing time?

Any thoughts?

[mindfrost82]

I haven't tested it yet, but I believe someone else has.

I have a BT GPS puck that I used with my old Treo 700wx. I might connect that to my TP and test the GPS. I didn't have any lag with that, but that should tell us if its graphics or the GPS unit.

I thought someone did that and didn't have lag, but I could be wrong.

[noellenchris]

This morning I ran my TP next to my Kaiser again.

One thing I noticed is that the Kaiser seems to use some sort of speed algorithm to "make up" for the position lag. While passing intersections it is a little more accurate than my TP, but when coming to a stop at an intersection the Kaiser overshot the intersection by 20+ feet and my TP stopped just before it like it should have.

This makes me wonder if the Kaiser is trying to guess the correct position somehow based on speed rather than using the true GPS reading, which I'm guessing would show the same position lag as the TP.

My Kaiser has all of the default reg settings for GPS. I might try changing them so they match the TP and see what happens.


Did your Kaiser have any speed lag...when you stopped, did it say zero for speed very quickly? The TP seems to really lag in speed still. Position is pretty good. And like most Sirf gps's it freeze's at a stop, and is slow to show initial movement...

[mindfrost82]

Did your Kaiser have any speed lag...when you stopped, did it say zero for speed very quickly? The TP seems to really lag in speed still. Position is pretty good. And like most Sirf gps's it freeze's at a stop, and is slow to show initial movement...
I didn't really notice, I just saw that it showed I already passed the intersection when I hadn't yet.

I will try it again on my way home and see.

[JJKameR]

One strange thing: After using Sleuth's registry settings cab (the 1 that had the typo adding the registry key):
My GPS programs: TT7, GPS Test, BeelineGPS, don't show any "birds".
I can get a fix fast enought, but the are no
bars indicating visible birds, TT7 doesn't show any active, but it functions normally.

Anyone?:confused:

Something to do with buffers?

I have reported this a couple of pages before.
It's normal...

BTW with my diamond running Navigon 731 b137 I have literally NO LAG at all. Original Radio .20 (latest) and standard registry tweaks.
With iGo and TT7 lag is barely noticeable on certain situation and absent most of the time.

[iRiKi]

And like most Sirf gps's it freeze's at a stop, and is slow to show initial movement...

hello? htc doesn't have any sirf III model :rolleyes:

[NevadaSun]

i can confirm

me too i can also confirm

[CLShortFuse]

TomTom doesn't use the GPS Intermediate Driver (GPSID) on the Raphael. I believe Google does but I'm not so sure. So, you changing the registry keys makes no difference. The GPSID is a software driver made by Microsoft that parses the NMEA information and accesses the COMM port. If you're putting in the COMM port manually in the application you're testing, you're definitely not using GPSID.

Not all applications use GPSID and I'm sure many directly access the COMM port directly.

Regardless, those changes to the registry values aren't really going to help you get a GPS fix quicker. Just think of it as an NMEA parser reading a COMM port. It's just a driver really and not directly linked to the SIRF III device/QualComm GPSOne. The data that comes out of the COMM port isn't going to be manipulated to come out faster by changing the driver, just the speed as which the port is read.

You can find more reference information here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms850332.aspx

I'm writing my own GPS Testing Tool that uses the GPSID.
You can help / check it out here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=474582


Edit: I'm doing some research on this and I found this:



Because of this high power consumption, it is vitally important that GPS hardware only be turned on when necessary.
To make this easier to accomplish, the GPS Intermediate Driver only turns on GPS hardware when one of the following two things occurs:


An application calls GPSOpenDevice (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms893628.aspx).
An application calls CreateFile with the multiplexer interface string.

That's fine. My application calls GPSOpenDevice and then starts reading data.
What I found interesting was this:


Application code may be able to conserve battery power by taking advantage of any GPS hardware support for using existing location data to shorten startup times.
Which is what I'm researching now...

From my research, I'm coming to the conclusion that's it's NOT a good idea to turn off A-GPS and not to use the GPS Almanac (GPS History). It seems like HTC's AGPS procedure is more or less GARBAGE. What it seems like we can do is create our OWN drivers and AGPS tool. Have you guys never realized how precise and quick Google Maps tends to be with finding your location with mobile towers. It's my suspicion that they are NOT using Qualcomm's /HTC's AGPS (incorporated in the GPSID) but their own AGPS function. We can write our own and I'm going to get started on that.

Why use the AGPS / GPS Almanac?
You guys already know the difference between a cold GPS fix and a hot GPS fix. Getting a hot GPS means the GPS Almanac is still fresh/up-to-date and it can find those satellites quickly by calculating their azimuth and elevation and knowing where they are before even using the hardware to get a fix. The same can be done with AGPS and it should work really fast. The problem is probably that Qualcomm wrote a garbage procedure. I'm going to look into how to write your own GPSID driver.

Edit: More research tells me this. It seems like AGPS information is already on GPSID but if your application doesn't request it by using the IOCTL_GPS_READ_ASSISTED call, it won't use it. Maybe it's not so garbage after all, and it's just that applications aren't reading the AGPS info (meaning turning on or off makes no difference what so ever)

I think I figured out how HTC's GPS works. HTC's QuickGPS writes GPS Almanac data to a file . GPSID_HTC.dll tells the GPSID driver to read that file. If we can write our own GPS almanac data and AGPS information, it'll probably work better.

[noellenchris]

hello? htc doesn't have any sirf III model :rolleyes:

that is what I was saying "like" the sirf III's you have to use a tool to turn off the static state the gps enters at a stop since it can't compute heading etc. And the qualcom gps seems to do the same thing, you can see the delay when starting to drive from a dead stop.

Da_G will probably come back and help with the GPS issues when he is done messing with the wm6.5 porting project...:)

[Da_G]

Just a little correction, gpsdriver.dll exposes gps0: port, unless you are connecting to the POLL port directly, (i am aware of no gps program that does this) you are most definitely using the GPSID..

GPSID reads gps0: POLL data and exposes as COM4: and GPD0:..

Also google maps has no direct effect on AGPS function, turn on debug log while you connect with various apps; only apps that do something different are HTC GPS Tool and CleanGPSData, they send IOCTL to gpsdriver to cold start if you choose.. otherwise all other apps operate with a standard COM_Open..

I feel there is nothing more to be done here without access to the radio ROM, it's my opinion that there's a simple nvram bit for an "averaging algorithm" type thing.. and as mentioned before "static navigation" esque feature a'la SirfStarIII.. again both probably just nvram bits that need to be flipped from 1 to 0..

CLShortFuse, you may want to read my previous posts on the topic, I have documented almost the entire (non?)functionality of the AGPS system, no sense doing it twice :)

[CLShortFuse]

Just a little correction, gpsdriver.dll exposes gps0: port, unless you are connecting to the POLL port directly, (i am aware of no gps program that does this) you are most definitely using the GPSID..

GPSID reads gps0: POLL data and exposes as COM4: and GPD0:..

Also google maps has no direct effect on AGPS function, turn on debug log while you connect with various apps; only apps that do something different are HTC GPS Tool and CleanGPSData, they send IOCTL to gpsdriver to cold start if you choose.. otherwise all other apps operate with a standard COM_Open..

I feel there is nothing more to be done here without access to the radio ROM, it's my opinion that there's a simple nvram bit for an "averaging algorithm" type thing.. and as mentioned before "static navigation" esque feature a'la SirfStarIII.. again both probably just nvram bits that need to be flipped from 1 to 0..

CLShortFuse, you may want to read my previous posts on the topic, I have documented almost the entire (non?)functionality of the AGPS system, no sense doing it twice :)

I'll check it out.

What I'm going to do is write read AGPS from the Radio Information Layer (RIL) of the Windows Mobile system, and use database to convert from CellTower to Long/Lat and take that info, write it in the GPS Almanac, tell the GPSID to read the GPS Almanac and then try to get a fix. This will allow it to get a fix quicker. Google, Yahoo's ZoneLag, and OpenCellID.org all have publically available GPS coordinates of celltower IDs. FCC also have a publically available list but I can't find one online.

[Da_G]

Good luck! That certainly doesn't work in the current implementation, which is why i think it's broken also. Check command AT@CELLID? (use at_tool or similar, i have one posted in raph software forum under msm72xx tools), its supposed to report your lat/long as returned by AGPS PDE server, but i've never once seen it report actual values (always lat 0 long 0)

I just wish there was a nice packet sniffer like wireshark for WinMo.. I want to see the commo between gpsdriver.dll and the agps pde..

[CLShortFuse]

Good luck! That certainly doesn't work in the current implementation, which is why i think it's broken also. Check command AT@CELLID? (use at_tool or similar, i have one posted in raph software forum under msm72xx tools), its supposed to report your lat/long as returned by AGPS PDE server, but i've never once seen it report actual values (always lat 0 long 0)

I just wish there was a nice packet sniffer like wireshark for WinMo.. I want to see the commo between gpsdriver.dll and the agps pde..

I can get the celltower and gps information using the example posted here:
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/DeepCast.aspx

But the question is writing to the GPS Almanac and then figuring out what purpose QuickGPS serves with GPSID (probably links to HTC's own GPSID DLL)

[Da_G]

QuickGPS does a periodic injection of epheremis data from \Windows\xtra.bin which (per a post i read some time ago) contains worldwide constellation to (somewhere) in non-volatile storage, i think the MFG partition.. if I recall correctly it does it's communication directly to the gps0: port bypassing gpsid.

[CLShortFuse]

Da_G so, if I have the Lat/Long information via celltower info with Google. Now I need to send that to the GPS device. GPSID documentation says I can but I'm still figuring it out

[Da_G]

I'm unsure about that, but the way gpsdriver.dll does it is by querying registry for MCCMNC, and CellID, and sending that to agps PDE server, which replies with lat/long that gets fed into gpsid.. i've never seen a valid reply so i dont know the method :o(

[Da_G]

Hey, I was just poking through the HTC Rose ROM, runs a similar chipset, looks like the gps driver is compatible (and not much different)

Of course, you know what i'm doing.. building a ROM with that driver.. to take it for a spin :P

On a side note, the HTC Rose ROM is the first one i've seen with multiple languages in one ROM.. cool!

[CLShortFuse]

Registry? Do you know where? I don't need it since I'm referencing the Radio Information Layer (RIL) and getting TowerID, LocationAreaCode, MobileCountryCode and MobileNetworkCode anyway but it's good to know.

Am I correct to assume that GPSdriver.dll / GPSID.dll / GPSID_HTC.dll is optional? According to documentation it's just opening a COM port like before Windows Mobile 5.0. What function does it do?

Also the first post says to disable GPS Logging. Is GPS Logging the same as GPS Almanac? What good could come out of disabling GPS Almanac? If it the GPS Almanac in a text file, I'll see if I can inject the Long/Lat data I get from Google with the TowerID into that file. I could be wrong since I honestly haven't even checked what the log contains.

[Da_G]

"Normal" GPS drivers expose themselves as a COMM port to the system, like COM4:, but htc's setup doesn't work that way. gpsdriver.dll exposes a "POLL version 2" port (referenced in gpsid spec) - which is then connected to by either GPSID or GPSID_HTC and exposed as COM4: and GPD0:.

GPS Logging is the GPSID feature that logs all NMEA strings that pass through it, it's a security issue (for obvious reasons since you are carrying around a log of where you've been) - and microsoft specifically recommends disabling it on all production devices for this reason. HTC of course did not :)

The thinking was that writing to the log file could be a source of lag, but it's not the case, but then, not having a log of where you've been (when the gps is on) is probably better than having a log...

AFAIK the only time GPSID is looking for a lat/long is in the radio rom's response to the AT@CELLID command - so you might have to intercept it's AT@CELLID call and give it your own reply..

But hey, maybe these new drivers will 'just work'... (laugh)

Re: the location of the key, i can't remember exactly off the top of my head, but search for "MCCMNC" in the registry, they're all stored with that one..

[CLShortFuse]

GRRRR! I just figured something out. The GPS Almanac is not a history that it uses. QuickGPS updates the almanac and ephemeris. I think I'll have to devote trying to figure out how to write the AGPS to the GPSID device using IOCTL_GPS_WRITE_ASSISTED

Edit: And I didn't find the key but whatever. I don't need it.

Or does it? I'm confused after looking at this:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/gps/almanacs.htm

GPS needs three things: almanac, ephemeris and time.

But if that were true that QuickGPS updates both the almanac and ephemeris then you just need the "time" data which is what each satellite gives you. But QuickGPS doesn't give me as quick of a fix as when I close and it open it again.

If I could inject the almanac with GPSID and use QuickGPS to update the ephemeris I'll be hot fix all the time. Add writing the AGPS manually and our GPS issues will be fixed.

[Neoo330]

Its very strange, does enyone can confirm this lag with external bluetooth GPS ?
I tried yesterday, and lag is stil there :rolleyes:

[Da_G]

Cruised around with the HTC Rose dsm, smd, smd_com, gpsdriver, and gpsid today, no change!

(I don't see the lag on my bluetooth gps)

Don't think this problem is going to get solved without HTC's involvement.. unless I can hax0r my way into the radio rom :P

[nitroblu]

^
if htc had half a mind, they should hire you asap Da_G :D

[Sleuth255]

Well, I'm back from Atlanta with over 150 miles logged using TT7 on my Fuze. Here are my findings:


the 1.40 version of S2U2 will blank the display, had to disable it
Satellite acquire time was the same or better than my tilt. Generally this ment that I could open the door, start TomTom and throw my fuze on the dashboard. Then toss my coat in the back & maybe load luggage up. Then sit down, buckle up and start. When I reached for my Fuze, it was always locked in.
awsome signal strength! I had a POS PT Cruiser rental and stuck my Fuze into the cupholders next to the shifter. That's waaaayyy down near the floor. It was pretty much pegged on 5 bars the whole time. I could never do that with my Tilt. It always needed to be somewhat close to the dash. On a PT Cruiser, the dash isn't usable so I had to run my Tilt on my knee.
No position lag ever cropped up. Voice prompts were spot on with positioning. My only observation was that the map movement was at times a bit jerkier than I remember it on my Tilt
TT7 has a red "exceeding the speed limit" alert showing your speed vs. the posted speed... It was generally on ;) They should allow you to plug in "acceptable speeding ticket prices" into prefs to eliminate....
battery consumption when GPS is running is a bit better than my Tilt
Auto backlight rocks! I used to have to fumble with my Tilt when driving at night but the Fuze automatically dims. This was perfect while driving at dusk.


All in all, I'm most pleased with the TT7 VGA/Fuze combination. It's superior to my Tilt in every way. I had major trepidations going to this device because I depended on my tilt so much in this regard, but my fears are gone now.

I don't know what to say here to you folks with positional lag issues. I simply couldn't reproduce these during long term, real-world navigation exercises at speeds up to 80mph. PM me if you want me to try some tests or check some settings. I'll also continue to lurk this thread and will jump in if I see anything I can assist with. fttb, I count myself lucky to be in with the others reporting 0 position lag but am unsure why exactly this is.

[nitroblu]

@Sleuth255
Thanks for the very detailed report :D I think it's time I jump ship and make the switch from Garmin to TT7 LOL.

[X2D]

Garmin has the coolest features out of every nav system I've tried but it's so damn off compared to TT7 and iGO

[starstreak]

Does the Sony X1 also have this same lag issue? It has the same chipset,right?

[NLS]

heard contradicting reports about that

(yes same chipset)

[mindfrost82]

I've pretty much eliminated my positional lag with the reg tweaks we've done, now I'm down to speed lag.

My report the other day was backwards. My TP was the one that overshot the intersection. I tried it again on my way home and my Tilt would stop as soon as my car reached 0 and the Tilt would read 0. My TP would slowly go down but it would take 4-5 seconds for it to actually get to 0.

[Flying Kiwi]

TT7 has a red "exceeding the speed limit" alert showing your speed vs. the posted speed... It was generally on ;) They should allow you to plug in "acceptable speeding ticket prices" into prefs to eliminate....:D:D .... Now if only I could get my bicycle with my TyTN II running TT Navigator mounted on the handlebars to go fast enough. In my case the speeding related infringement would probably be for going to slow :(

[mike99]

Well,

I decided to contact HTC about the problems. Here is our conversation via e-mail.

Hello, I am in the US on Sprint network. I have a Touch Pro
> phone with two persistent problems. 1. There is a marked lag
> using GPS. I use Live search, google maps, and Sprint
> TeleNav. All of them suffer from the same problem: the
> position of my car on the map lags 200-250 feet behind my
> actual real time position. This makes navigation software
> almost unusable. I talked to Sprint representatives and was
> told this is not the software issue. I used same
> applications on other phones (Blackberry curve and HTC Mogul
> from Sprint) and never experienced these problems. 2. The
> speakerphone volume is very low at max settins, and cannot
> be used for conversations except in the completely
> noise-free environment. I did try both soft and hard resets,
> and even exchanged my phone. My latest build date is
> 12/24/08. However, both models have similar problems, and
> this is very frustrating. Touch Pro is an expensive high-end
> phone, and these two functions are very important
> to me. Is there anything you can suggest?Sincerely



Thank you for your inquiry regarding the GPS lag and
> speaker volume on your HTC Touch Pro device from Sprint.
>
> We understand that it is important you receive all the
> information to best utilize your device.
>
> We recommend you open the QuickGPS program to download
> ephemeris data (current satellite position and timing
> information) to your device. This data is needed to
> determine the GPS position of your current location.
>
> To open QuickGPS, tap Start > Programs > QuickGPS and
> tap "Download" on the QuickGPS screen.
> You will initially see onscreen the Valid time for the
> downloaded data. This will continue to update until the
> time runs out. To speed up GPS positioning, download the
> latest ephemeris data when the validity of the data expires.
> >
> You can locate further information regarding QuickGPS in
> your device's User Manual. >
> The HTC Technical Support Center is unable to hear and
> compare the volume of your speakerphone to that of other HTC
> Touch Pro devices. We respectfully recommend you contact
> your carrier for such a comparison.
>
> I hope we have answered your question in detail.
> Feel free to contact us again if you have any further
> questions.



Hello William,
> Thank you so much for a very prompt reply. I really
> appreciate that. Unfortunately, the QuickGPS trick did not
> work. I tried it with both devices, as recommended, prior to
> the first use of GPS based program, and then tried to update
> it every day. Still no luck. The GPS fix is very quick,
> within several seconds, with multiple satellites, but the
> significant lag is still there.
> And what about the speakerphone issue?
> Again, thank you very much for your help.Sincerely,


We understand it is important for your device to function
> as expected. If redownloading the signal did not resolve the
> GPS lag, then you would need to contact Sprint for further
> assistance. HTC cannot offer extensive troubleshooting for
> the carrier's GPS application. >
> >
> As for the speaker issue, if the volume is turned up all
> the way, then we cannot make it go any louder. This device
> has been designed around the carrier's specifications.
> We apologize for any inconveniences this may cause you.


Hello,
Like I said, I did contact Sprint, and they told me that it is not a TeleNav but the device issue.
Sincerely


Thank you for your inquiry about the GPS lag on the Touch Pro.


We do understand the frustration you are experiencing with the GPS. However, we have a limited support for the GPS software as we do not make the software only the hardware. Have you tried to do a soft reset of the device? This is done by taking the stylus and pressing the reset button or recessed hole at the base of the device and releasing. This will reboot the device with out losing any information. If this does not resolve the issue then we would suggest the hard reset of the device and redownload and set up the QuickGPS and the Sprint Navigator. The hard reset is done by doing the following steps:



1. With the device turned off, press and hold the Volume Down and Enter keys first, and then press and hold

the Power key until you see the following message on the screen: this operation will erase all personal data

2. Release the Volume Down, Enter, and Power keys, and then press the Volume Up key to perform the hard

reset, or press any other button to cancel the reset.


I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.



HTC Technical Support

http://www.america.htc.com

http://www.htcwiki.com


Obviously, they do not want to deal with the problem. I will forward this to Sprint. I do think it might help if more people with the problems would contact both HTC and the carrier. Maybe that forces them to improve QC and come up with upgrades.

Thanks.

[Flying Kiwi]

Well,

I decided to contact HTC about the problems. Here is our conversation via e-mail.

<long email chain snipped>

I hope we have answered your question in detail. Feel free to contact us again if you have any further questions.

Obviously, they do not want to deal with the problem. I will forward this to Sprint. I do think it might help if more people with the problems would contact both HTC and the carrier. Maybe that forces them to improve QC and come up with upgrades.

Thanks.That seems on par with my experience of the call centre/email response part of HTC Tech 'Support' - very annoying but keep getting back to them every time the buck is passed in their direction and make sure you have a full record of who said what! I dont know if the Sprint version will yet run with other Navigation software but if it will, ask HTC what software it will work with and that they will accept responsibility for correct functioning. In the end if HTC doesn't want to know and aren't technically the 'provider' of the device, you'll have a hard time getting anywhere with them without your providers backing/action.:(

[mike99]

Just like said, if more people complained, the chances of getting their attention would go up. I just e-mailed this whole deal to Sprint. Will keep forum posted.

The HTC email for CS is on theiw web site, HTC.COM

Thanks.

[starstreak]

heard contradicting reports about that

(yes same chipset)

Sorry, not sure if I understood you. So some with X1 do have the issue? Or you mean, you have heard of people with this issue but can't confirm it?

[NLS]

I mean both of what you said.
Seems some with X1 have it and some not.
And yes I cannot confirm it.

So to my eyes looks like same case with TP.

[starstreak]

I mean both of what you said.
Seems some with X1 have it and some not.
And yes I cannot confirm it.

So to my eyes looks like same case with TP.

Ah ok. I was hoping to sell my TP and get the X1a if it didn't have that issue. I was goning buy the X1a untill bestbuy messed up my order and I ended up getting the TouchPro instead.

[NLS]

I dunno man - your choice - what I know (after I used a couple X1i) is that if was in the market again, I'd buy TP again

[mike99]

Just a quick question.

I noted on my TP using any GPS program (live search, google maps, Sprint TeleNav), the motion of the car on the map is very jerky and discontinuous. I think this is the main source of the lag. Even on my wife's iphone with google maps, the motion is smooth and continuous, just like on my in car TomTom.

Any one can comment on their experience?

Thanks.

[borisku]

@mike: use a comportsplitter & problems are gone...:D
greetz
Boris

[mike99]

@mike: use a comportsplitter & problems are gone...
greetz
Boris

Sorry to sound stupid, but what is it, and how does it help??

Thanks

[petard]

I just compared my FUZE with stock ROM to a US DIAM110 with Dutty's latest ROM (as of 1 week ago) and the Diamond has significantly less position and even speed lag.

[borisku]

@mike:
http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=comportsplitter
greetz
boris

[petard]

comsplitter won't help because the comsplitter reads from the com port and splits that. once the data is to the com port, it is already delayed so there is no way it can help.

[bretto_b]

After finally sort of solvin the lag issue ad having satisfactory perforance, yesterday I go for a rive and TomTom shows me my car driving off the road in the rough direction I am heading at least. Any suggestions on hat has happened??

[noellenchris]

After finally sort of solvin the lag issue ad having satisfactory perforance, yesterday I go for a rive and TomTom shows me my car driving off the road in the rough direction I am heading at least. Any suggestions on hat has happened??

happens to me too once in awhile. I have to soft reset, then it works correctly for me... don't know why it happens.

[nuttsp]

happens to me too once in awhile. I have to soft reset, then it works correctly for me... don't know why it happens.

So there is a fix for the lag? Did I miss something?

[nuttsp]

Its very strange, does enyone can confirm this lag with external bluetooth GPS ?
I tried yesterday, and lag is stil there :rolleyes:

I tried my external GPS GPSlim236 with TT6 and I have no lag or speed problems.

[v1nce]

I was looking at the Touch HD forum to compare the Touch Pro and the Touch HD, and come across a similar GPS issues thread to this one, which suggests the issues you guys are experiencing are shared across both phones.

A supposed solution was posted today by user acousticnorbert in this post (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3225354&postcount=54), and has to do with registry changes to resize (shink?) the buffer between the GPS, Com emulator and Software.

I thought you guys might want to try this and see if its a viable fix to the issues you're experiencing. I apologise if a similar non-functional fix has been posted in this thread before, but I haven't had time to read all 80 pages.

Edit: Found this on another forum which seems to help several people out: http://blog.mohdimran.com/2008/11/htc-touch-pro-gps-problem-tweaking.html

[mindfrost82]

I was looking at the Touch HD forum to compare the Touch Pro and the Touch HD, and come across a similar GPS issues thread to this one, which suggests the issues you guys are experiencing are shared across both phones.

A supposed solution was posted today by user acousticnorbert in this post (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3225354&postcount=54), and has to do with registry changes to resize (shink?) the buffer between the GPS, Com emulator and Software.

I thought you guys might want to try this and see if its a viable fix to the issues you're experiencing. I apologise if a similar non-functional fix has been posted in this thread before, but I haven't had time to read all 80 pages.

Edit: Found this on another forum which seems to help several people out: http://blog.mohdimran.com/2008/11/htc-touch-pro-gps-problem-tweaking.html
We've been trying all sorts of different registry settings.

We've tried the buffers at 512 as well.

The only thing I noticed was the RetryWaitOnError which he set to 1 and I believe we've always had it on 3.

[mike99]

So I ve tried just about everything to fix GPS lag.The last thing I want to try is the port splitter. So I downloaded Com port splitter (freeware, not GPSGate) as a zip file. I unzipped it. When I try to open it, it tells me there is no program associated with it, and that I have to run a program and open the file within it.

I use TeleNav navigation from Sprint (believe the same as for ATT).

Can anyone help me to figure out how to set it up and assign ports correctly.

Thanks

[mindfrost82]

I think I'm to the point where I agree with Da_G thinking that the problem lies deeper inside the radio.

I tried the reg settings posted above (in the link) and I went all the way back to the default settings and with my hardware I've noticed that all the reg settings have VERY LITTLE effect.

I think the biggest issue is speed lag. No matter what reg settings I use it's always about 4 seconds.

I believe Sleuth even had speed lag. I would have to go back and watch his video again, but I think he has it as well.

[noellenchris]

I think I'm to the point where I agree with Da_G thinking that the problem lies deeper inside the radio.

I tried the reg settings posted above (in the link) and I went all the way back to the default settings and with my hardware I've noticed that all the reg settings have VERY LITTLE effect.

I think the biggest issue is speed lag. No matter what reg settings I use it's always about 4 seconds.

I believe Sleuth even had speed lag. I would have to go back and watch his video again, but I think he has it as well.

Da_G is on to something that might help

"On a side note, just curious.. when you guys flash a new radio ROM, are you also grabbing the rilphone.dll that goes with that radio ROM?

Reason I ask is the rilphone.dll driver is what sits inbetween the RIL abstraction layer and the radio ROM.. so any new/changed features in the radio ROM that require different commands from older versions would never recieve the newer command without a rilphone.dll that's aware of the changes.. of course any fixes to problems with existing commands would carry over.. but one such new command in the blackstone radios vs. the raphael radios is AT@AGPSFeature.. it defaults to 0 and the raphael rilphone.dll never issues that command (because it's not aware of it) but the blackstone rilphone.dll does.. __________________"

He is working on cooking that rilphone.dll into a rom to match with a radio. This may solve some issues for us.

I agree messing w/ the reg seems to have little effect. Speed lag is always there and I can't seem to change it no matter what I change...keep your fingers crossed that Da_G get's to the bottom of this.....:D

[nitroblu]

good update noellenchris :D!

[mindfrost82]

All I've done is flash the radio, I've never changed anything else.

Is it possible to just copy over the rilphone.dll file without cooking it in? If this is a possibility, then I would be more than willing to test it if someone can get me the file from a Blackstone ROM with either the latest 1.09 or 1.10 radio.

[mike99]

Would it be worthwhile asking someone from the forum with a perfectly working GPS to upload the GPS drivers so that others can try them and see if they woud fix the problem?

Thanks

[mindfrost82]

I just got to thinking, if its the rilphone.dll file, then wouldn't the problem be fixed in the Blackstone ROMs that use the correct radio and rilphone.dll combination?

Its my understanding that they have the same (or similar) issues that we do.

[mike99]

Well, maybe it is worth trying to reload the entire ROM from someone who claims GPS works fine. Can the ROM be uploaded on this site by individual users?

I am on Sprint, and there seems to be several ROM versions floating around, depending on the build date. The last number in the ROM version varies from 1 in very first models to 4 in the most recent. I am not sure if this is related to GPS issues. I have the latest version and marked lag.

So, maybe we could try to upload a "perfect" GSM and CDMA ROMs from people who tested GPS and have no problem and test it on other phones.

This way we:

1. would know for sure if this is a hardware issue or not
2. would be possibly able to fix it without knowing exactly where the problem is.

Any thoughts???

[mindfrost82]

Well, maybe it is worth trying to reload the entire ROM from someone who claims GPS works fine. Can the ROM be uploaded on this site by individual users?

I am on Sprint, and there seems to be several ROM versions floating around, depending on the build date. The last number in the ROM version varies from 1 in very first models to 4 in the most recent. I am not sure if this is related to GPS issues. I have the latest version and marked lag.

So, maybe we could try to upload a "perfect" GSM and CDMA ROMs from people who tested GPS and have no problem and test it on other phones.

This way we:

1. would know for sure if this is a hardware issue or not
2. would be possibly able to fix it without knowing exactly where the problem is.

Any thoughts???
Not sure about CDMA, but as of right now there's no "perfect" GSM ROM in regards to GPS. I believe everyone is having some speed lag. Some isn't as bad as others though.

I'm still willing to try the rilphone.dll and see if it helps.

[mike99]

So did some more testing today. Looks like the voice commands are on time, but the image lags. My refresh rate (using TeleNav and Google maps as well as Amaze) is one every 1.5-2 sec, compared to 3-4/sec reported by others here.

The compass tools on telenav also shows pretty accurate speed driving steadily (with 2-3 mph) but accelerating or decelerating, takes 7-8 sec to get to the right speed.

I am on stock sprint ROM build date 12/26

[Da_G]

I've been doing some private testing with a bluetooth GPS and the internal GPS side-by-side, with interesting results.. today it seems almost perfect.. yesterday it was off by almost 50 feet..

Check this out. Point 147 is from the internal GPS, timestamped :38:35.8 (minutes:seconds:10thsofasecond)

Point 143 is from my bluetooth gps (which is known not to have any lag or positional issues, and is accurate to sub-1 meter), timestamped :38:35.0

So the internal gps is showing me a couple feet behind and to the right of the bt gps. The difference is within the margin of error of the dilution of position (note the vehicle in the upper part of the image, the difference is less than one vehicle-length)

This is with blackstone 1.10.25.25 radio/rilphone/dsm/smd/smd_com/rpc (all related parts to serial ports etc.)

I was not able to look at the screen at the same time as doing this test, so I can't say if positional/speed lag showed up on the screen or not. But if it was, it would be due to a buffer somewhere, as the raw NMEA output when synchronized with a common time source (GPS satellites) shows it to be accurate.

Definite discrepancies I can see: Speed reporting on the internal GPS seems to be off when accelerating/decelerating, and almost spot on at a constant speed. This reinforces my theory about some kind of averaging algorithm coming into play..

Altitude differs by a rather large margin (836.614 ft on bluetooth GPS, 709.646 ft on internal GPS) - but altitude is something consumer gps units are not very good at, gotta look to aviation GPS units or higher end business class units for that.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151360&stc=1&d=1233174334

[noellenchris]

Ok, tried the quartz ril and my rom doesn't like it...darn....I guess I will have to eventually cook up my own rom. I hate reinstalling everything. I install so much stuff it takes me ages to get the phone back the way I like it....lol:(

I wonder if Da_G had any luck replacing his ril in his rom? I know he posted above, but did the ril make a difference?:confused:

[Da_G]

So far I haven't come up with a reliable test case scenario to make a judgement call on it. Subjectively, it feels better. Could easily be placebo effect though.

It seems to have introduced an issue that I don't recall having in the stock radio though, occaisionally my gps position is exactly n feet west/east and exactly n feet north/south of my position.. don't know why it happens, but when it does it'll stick until a soft reset..

(what I mean is that every position report will be, for example, 10 feet west and 10 feet north of my real position, and it will be off by exactly 10ft/10ft until a soft reset) - it seems to happen once out of every 10 soft resets using the gps or so.

[mindfrost82]

Can someone export all of their Multiplexer key settings?

I accidently deleted the whole key lol.

[Sleuth255]

I believe Sleuth even had speed lag. I would have to go back and watch his video again, but I think he has it as well.

Yep. Have speed lag in both Raphael and Kaiser. Raphael is a bit worse though. I don't think we can fix this; only positional lag. It's pretty clear in my video on post 400 especially when I make the turn onto Davidson road. Not an issue for navigating though so it doesn't concern me much. Since its doppler based, it might have something to do with SNR. Somebody should duct-tape their fuze to the hood of the car and go driving to see if speed lag gets better.

JK!

[noellenchris]

Ok, tried the quartz ril and my rom doesn't like it...darn....I guess I will have to eventually cook up my own rom. I hate reinstalling everything. I install so much stuff it takes me ages to get the phone back the way I like it....lol:(

I wonder if Da_G had any luck replacing his ril in his rom? I know he posted above, but did the ril make a difference?:confused:

[fourcc]

Ok, tried the quartz ril and my rom doesn't like it...darn....I guess I will have to eventually cook up my own rom. I hate reinstalling everything. I install so much stuff it takes me ages to get the phone back the way I like it....lol:(

I wonder if Da_G had any luck replacing his ril in his rom? I know he posted above, but did the ril make a difference?:confused:

why don't use sprite backup? it usually (+90%) gives to me good results restoring backups after HR or ROM upgrades.

[crazyC]

why don't use sprite backup? it usually (+90%) gives to me good results restoring backups after HR or ROM upgrades.

Or use UC/ Sashimi?

[CLShortFuse]

On my GPSToolPro application, I'm now working on making your own psuedo AGPS server. Basically, you input 127.0.0.1 and port# you want into the HTC\SUPL AGPS registry settings and the application will listen on that port and respond with your Lat/Long from Google. I've already got AGPS working with Google's servers, but the only thing I can't do yet is feed the GPS device that information.

Can somebody who has AGPS working from their ISP/Cell Provider packet sniff and send me the info so I can make this application?

Discussion thread is here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=474582&page=3

[MIQmiq]

Hi all
Just had a debate with HTC support, where they now say, that HTC will release a ROM update mid-february, maybe it will remove the GPS lag problem.

[Sleuth255]

ahh... the 'ol "they will release a new rom shortly" ploy from HTC ;)

Good to see they haven't changed a bit.

[crazyC]

I too would be rather cynical but understand that O2 over here have confirmed a Q1 Rom update as well - I would expect that to be on the same base.
So maybe there is hope. Maybe.....

[Flying Kiwi]

Just had a debate with HTC support, where they now say, that HTC will release a ROM update mid-february, maybe it will remove the GPS lag problem.What, the same HTC that told me and many other users of the TyTN II unhappy with it's graphics performance, that a new ROM with better video playback and improved graphics was just around the corner? In the end what they told me would be about 2 weeks or so, took about 6 months and even then it didn't address the real issues most people were complaining about. Worse, it contained more bugs than the original ROM and caused more problems than it fixed. Take it from someone who's been on the end of lines from HTC like this, believe it only when you see it and keep up the complaints until it's proven you've got somewhere :(

[Da_G]

I've got some NMEA logs if anyone wants to take a look, PM me (please don't ask if you don't know what to do with them :)), I did several drives around town on several different days, with my bluetooth gps and my phone sitting side-by-side, logging pure nmea data, using timestamps from the gps satellites (this eliminates any graphical lag as a possible source)

And there seems to be a clear 1 second lag in the output of the internal GPS. This is most likely occuring at or above the level of gpsdriver.dll, so no amount of tweaks to the gpsid_htc.dll parameters will help the issue (please, prove me wrong, i want a working gps too! :))

CLShortFuse: I've been checking your tool out, looks like a great idea :) You probably want to look to the CDMA forums for a user with a working PDE <--> AGPS system communication, I don't think any of us on the GSM side have a working implementation.

[misfitwrx]

i have noticed in igo8 the signal strength for each sat. never gets anywhere in the green(max) and i noticed the higher the signal str. for each sattelite it seemed to update faster and work alot better, like on a clear sunny day it not only locks faster but is more responsive over all. i dont know much about the technical stuff with these things, but maybe the radio rom or another setting can devote more power or something to the gps chip ? i could be completely wrong and im sure i am but its just something i noticed

[dez93_2000]

Sorry for being lazy all, but there are 86 pages!
The apps on p1 haven't been updated since november - can anyone give me a quick overview as to whether it's possible to improve the GPS performance of my touch HD?
I've not used it much, but it doesn't seem to update location if I'm stationary, or sometimes if I'm moving. I've already read reports of horrendous lag when driving but yet to test. Is there a solid fix yet, or are current attempts getting lots of "it didn't work"/"it crashed my system"/"it killed my poodle" responses? :D
Cheers in advance!

Dez

[Operation619]

I experienced pretty bad lag when using it with iGuidance as well as a few other GPS software programs I use.

However, once I installed Franson's GPSGate all of my issues were resolved. The implementation of the Intermediate GPS ID driver was not done well by HTC.

[ajmiller]

One additional observation that might be relevant. I have just enabled speed camera warnings on Copilot 7. Normally, it gives a verbal warning and a visual indicator as one nears. On the TP the verbal message is repeated many times over and the visual warning flashes annoyingly on and off. This seems to confirm other observations that the GPS signal is being interrupted in some way. The signal indicator bars also seem to fluctuate alot even when completely immobile. With a BT GPS device its rock solid and none of this occurs.
The TP for me is only a little bit better than stock with all the reg changes and other tips suggested through this thread, radio and rom flashes tried and tested. The lock is now quicker but its performance other wise remains laggy and inaccurate.
We havent really got to the bottom of this and despite earlier hopes HTC doesnt seem to be taking the problem seriously

[kk0813]

Here is what I found on google...sounds good I guess?

The eGML is a strongly speed optimised 2d/3d graphic library. The render engine is optimised to read out high quality images with smooth colour transitions and sleek bends. The eGML is basically designed to run on different hardware and software environments. PocketPC

OpenGL ES-compliant graphics library and embedded 2D/3D Graphic Multiplatform Library (eGML), for the real-time generation of display graphics; Imagem’s spline-based library for handling bitmaps, frame buffer accesses, drawing of graphic primitives and object handing and movement;

Sounds better....

Da_G was right. I received the new IGuidance 2009 (which uses eGML for graphics) two days back and I still have the gps lag both positional and speed. I tried with and with out GPSGate, with and with out registry fix mentioned in this thread.
I hope HTC wtill come up with some solution on this.

[mindfrost82]

I experienced pretty bad lag when using it with iGuidance as well as a few other GPS software programs I use.

However, once I installed Franson's GPSGate all of my issues were resolved. The implementation of the Intermediate GPS ID driver was not done well by HTC.
What settings are you using with GPSGate? Do you have it reading COM4 or the Intermediate Driver? Do you mind going through all the settings and sharing them with us?

I found no difference when I used GPSGate.

Its been a known issue that iGuidance (atleast older versions) needs an app like GPSGate though, so that might be what you're noticing.

[kk0813]

What settings are you using with GPSGate? Do you have it reading COM4 or the Intermediate Driver? Do you mind going through all the settings and sharing them with us?

I found no difference when I used GPSGate.

Its been a known issue that iGuidance (atleast older versions) needs an app like GPSGate though, so that might be what you're noticing.

I am using AstroGPSLauncher and the attached files. This will start the GPSGate (if not already running) and will launch the IGuidance. I have set GPSGate to COM4 and baud rate to 4800, output to COM1 and in IGuidance COM1 and baud rate 4800.

The attached files are originally from

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=364199
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=363431 (check post #4 for IGuidance)


Only thing I changed is, the script was pointing to IGuidanceQVGA.exe and I changed to IGuidanceVGA.exe

I am using IGuidance 2009.

Instructions are in iGuidanceInternalGPSLauncher.msc

Even I didn't find any difference using with GPSGate.

[mindfrost82]

I am using AstroGPSLauncher and the attached files. This will start the GPSGate (if not already running) and will launch the IGuidance. I have set GPSGate to COM4 and baud rate to 4800, output to COM1 and in IGuidance COM1 and baud rate 4800.

The attached files are originally from

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=364199
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=363431 (check post #4 for IGuidance)


Only thing I changed is, the script was pointing to IGuidanceQVGA.exe and I changed to IGuidanceVGA.exe

I am using IGuidance 2009.

Instructions are in iGuidanceInternalGPSLauncher.msc

Even I didn't find any difference using with GPSGate.
And do you have speed lag? Does iGuidance 2009 have a speedometer? When your car shows 0, how long before iGuidance shows 0?

[CLShortFuse]

Guys, if you want to check if there's speed lag, don't use TomTom or anything like that. They aren't transparent enough to know what it's doing. Maybe TomTom checks every 1 second and caches. You don't know where the latency is.

If you want to check if the lag is with the GPS Intermediate Driver (GPSID) use my GPSToolPro. It's really basic. It shows the speed. You can set the timer poll interval (default at 1000ms/1sec).

If you want to check if the lag is with the GPSDevice, find a SIMPLE program that accesses the COMM port directly. I'm not sure which one does.

Don't use programs that are processor intensive, use the microSD and do other background checks. You don't know what TomTom is doing in the background. That's my point.

[Da_G]

As I posted before I have raw NMEA logs that clearly show a 1 second lag on the internal gps.. :( So it's certainly not graphic or processor related :()

This is something that will most likely need a fix from HTC (or maybe even qualcomm if the fault lies there, it seems to affect quite a number of msm devices)

My only hope for us lowly people without source code to fix it is NVRAM parameters..

[CLShortFuse]

As I posted before I have raw NMEA logs that clearly show a 1 second lag on the internal gps.. :( So it's certainly not graphic or processor related :()

This is something that will most likely need a fix from HTC (or maybe even qualcomm if the fault lies there, it seems to affect quite a number of msm devices)

My only hope for us lowly people without source code to fix it is NVRAM parameters..

Ah, I guess TomTom is even slower since it give me a 3-5 second speed lag.
Da_G did you see my post about requesting AGPS network packets. I'm thinking of running a TCP server on the device that answers AGPS calls with Lat/Long coordinates from Google's server. I got the coordinates, but I don't know what packets to send to emulate the AGPS server. Got any AGPS logs?

[Da_G]

Unfortunately no one on the GSM side of things has working AGPS at this point.. (at least it seems)

Do you know of a packet sniffer that works over GPRS? I can certainly give it a shot..

[CLShortFuse]

Unfortunately no one on the GSM side of things has working AGPS at this point.. (at least it seems)

Do you know of a packet sniffer that works over GPRS? I can certainly give it a shot..

It doesn't have to be GPRS. Think about it. It can be sent over WiFi. You can use a packet sniffer via a man-in-the-middle attack. Just disable the GPRS connection and have it send over WiFi. Technically, getting what packets shouldn't get an issue since I can just make a TCP server and read what's been sent. The question is, how do I respond?

We can also proxy it. I'm sure AGPS servers do an IP check to see your provider, so I would just need a proxy server on the network (or a phone and I can just pass packets with an application.)

I just need somebody with a working AGPS server to know how to respond.

I'm going to look online on how to make your own AGPS server

[fourcc]

I think, this is the way to go. i repeat again, your idea is brilliant!

[CLShortFuse]

I think, this is the way to go. i repeat again, your idea is brilliant!

In an effort to keep threads relevant, I made a new one about the AGPS thing. This thread is GPS Lag

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=477430

[petard]

I was trying to use my GPS yesterday and it was giving me trouble. I think the GPS sometimes stores corrupted data about the last fix to use to speed up the next fix. I had the GPS on for 8 minutes to get a fix outside in clear skies. Then I reopened it and it whenever it got a fix it would lose all satellites and start the fix all over again. I restarted TomTom many times and it just did the same thing. Then I went to HTC GPS tool and cleared data and opened TomTom again. Now, in less than 1 minute it got a steady lock indoors.

[Operation619]

Unfortunately no one on the GSM side of things has working AGPS at this point.. (at least it seems)

Do you know of a packet sniffer that works over GPRS? I can certainly give it a shot..

Most North American GSM carriers have AGPS working. It's a requirement for E911. However, the degree of network-assisted positioning implementation and methods differ by carrier.

Current FCC guidelines require that wireless E911 solutions provide public-safety answering points (PSAPs) with automatic-location data on the caller that is accurate within 50 meters 67% of the time — and within 150 meters 95% of the time.

[Da_G]

I was curious, so I checked out the FCC's requirements re:E911, and it seems to be an accuracy requirement rather than a requirement for AGPS. The GPS more than meets these accuracy requirements without AGPS..

I'm referencing FCC document here. (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:UwHJQrOSH_0J:www.fcc.gov/pshs/services/911-services/enhanced911/archives/factsheet_requirements_012001.pdf+e911+requirement s&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)

It discusses seperate requirements for handset-based location services and network-based services, but both AGPS and standalone GPS are handset-based.

[Operation619]

It's not only accuracy but time as well. E911 would be no good if it took 5 minutes to get a fix. The network assisted position data used for E911 is also used for LBS data (well, for the most part).

[Da_G]

Truth! Time is also a requirement. But mainly I wanted to point out that AGPS is NOT a requirement.. if it was I believe the last several HTC GSM devices would not be in compliance.. :)

[Operation619]

Positioning compliance via handset and network assistance is a requirement for meeting phase II E911 compliance. Every handset sold in the US must meet this minimum specification as of '02. Furthermore, the 3GPP specification allows almost every single GSM handset made today access to the location requests on the control plane. However, allowing LBS data on the user-control plane is very much carrier-specific and is not required.

Most handsets, including our Raphael, meet the spec using various forms of AGPS. A blend of network-assisted position data along with a fully autonomous GPS RF front-end augmented (in HTC phones anyway) by artificial ephemeris data (aka "QuickGPS").

[labrok]

i had for many months great problem with gps lag, diamond was anout 50-60 m behind my position in all programms, till last week when i tried destinator8! its great no lag at all, not even 1 m , i think that the only problem are the maps! now i have radio 1.08.25.20 and only with destinator 8 has no lag!

[Da_G]

New program highly relevant to helping us diagnose this issue:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3255338

[Da_G]

I was successful in porting the LG Incite GPS driver, HTC GPS Tool won't work with it though because it uses the standard microsoft GPSID and HTC GPS Tool talks to GPSID_HTC.dll..

So far it hasn't given me a magically working AGPS, but it functions :) I haven't had a chance to do a driving test for lag yet.. but if there's going to be a fix other than NVRAM or a radio ROM or new hardware, this will be it :)

Edit: except it wont spit me out any satellites! :( i dont get the PSTIS string either.. interesting.

[noellenchris]

New program highly relevant to helping us diagnose this issue:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3255338


Awesome find, now I can remove the SirfTech tool before I brick GPSOne...lol... Let's see what we can play with in this one!:D

[maw]

Hi guys

great to see that you haven't dropped this subject as yet and are still working diligently on trying to get the GPS to work acurate. I just wanted to say that I gave up.... I read a couple pages back that HTC will be coming with a new ROM most probably mid February?? Now it's mid feb, before it was end dec, then jan... I wish they would get off their lazy butts and spend some quality time and effort in solving the problems. Or they are probably waiting for you guys to fix the problem for them, they copy the solution into a ROM and distribute it. I was wondering, if and when this new ROM comes out, please take it apart and see if they indeed copied a solution you guys developed here!

Keep up the good work!

[Black1982]

Hello everybody!

i have not posted for a while as the lingo has become a little bit too complicated for me!

Anyway, i tested my TT 7.450, Western Europe Map and it works like a charm right now!! (Tested on my bicycle and in my car, speeds 20-120 km/h)

I use GPSToday for a very quick fix.(set to manual) (within few seconds even inside in front a a window)

With the settings below my TT is spot on (audio AND VISUAL)!!

Settings:

Performance:

file system cache: enabled
file system cache size: 2 mb
File system filter cache: 4096 sectors
pnp both : 1500
Glyph cache: 32 KB

GPS registry:

- Drivers\GpsOneDevice\PollInterval 250
- Drivers\InputBufferSize -> 512
- Drivers\OutputBufferSize -> 512
- Drivers\SleepOnNoData -> 1000
- Multiplexer\MaxBufferSize -> 256

AGPS disabled
No GPSlogging:

HTC Touch pro GSM
Rom: 1.90172.4 NLD (Vodafone original Rom)
Radio: 1.02.25.19
Protocol: 52.33.25.17H
Sandisk 16 gb SDHC Class 2

I also did the SD speedup tweak, dont know if it did anything

I believe it also helps to soft reset before using TT, but i have to test this some more!

I hope this can help some other people!

Thanx everybody!!:D

[MrRalphMan]

I have tried these settings, but they seemed to have made the lag worse then it was before.

Previously I was getting a 'normal' 1 to 2 second lag, now it seems to be in the region of 3 to 4 seconds.

Shame, the fix was fast, but I had just downloaded the quickgps data.

I'll prob have to pick these setting out and put them back to normal.

[jeblond]

haveyou seen this post ?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3254886&postcount=1087

I hope it's not a hardware problem...

[Operation619]

Awesome find, now I can remove the SirfTech tool before I brick GPSOne...lol... Let's see what we can play with in this one!:D

SiRFDemo wouldn't brick it. You couldn't send a NMEA command which would harm the receiver. If you had GPSOne binary and relevant software, now that's a different animal. :)

In my initial playing with GPSOneApp, I think it's more of a basic test and configuration tool than anything. I don't see a way of interfacing with binary which would could potentially give us much greater access to the receiver.

That being said, it's a very, very welcome app with me! :)

[hivesnl]

Ok, this morning i was finalizing my installation.

I wanted to intregate the S2U2 with a background.

When i commited that my total QuickGPS is not allowing me to update anymore This occurs a lot without any good explanations because S2U2 doesn't have anything to do with it. Now I can start the whole installation again!

Only a hard reset fixes this problem, i have called HTC to complain because i'm getting psycho of it

Please let me know if somebody has the same with updating after a while that it fails over and over again. i'm complaining there after a long run. Now it just started again.

I've tried to delete the xtra.bin and did a hard reset in order to restore this file in my failed system. I restored my nice backup and implemented the file.

This didn't do any trick. I've tried to import my register in order to restore the setting as it was before. The .reg doesn't fix it no more and the xtra.bin that i have installed after a hard reset isn't working either.

What are the options now? HTC said send it for repair whahahaha no way (2weeks without)

[Warjcowski]

hivesnl-
QuickGPS uses your data connection to update and that might explain your inability to update. Are you able to update HTC Weather? If not, try searching around for your providers data and proxy settings.

[xternal]

haveyou seen this post ?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3254886&postcount=1087

I hope it's not a hardware problem...

interesting, its not the sort of thing HTC would publicly announce either, because everyone would start demanding rma's.
I hope its not the case... :(

[Sleuth255]

Positional lag being a hardware problem corrected by newer devices is my best situational analysis of this issue btw & I posted the video to prove it. :(

Speed lag is different and may not be solvable given the gps antenna on a Raphael.

[hivesnl]

hivesnl-
QuickGPS uses your data connection to update and that might explain your inability to update. Are you able to update HTC Weather? If not, try searching around for your providers data and proxy settings.

Well, i've restored my backup from january after i did a clean install.

This fixed it, but the root cause is not the internet connection.

It's just quickgps that is failing to receive the full package from the server. It's dwonling and then stops without any reasons. It just says : Connection lost, timed out.

To prove that my internet worked, i have tried WIFI and 3g internet. And both were working properly on that certain moment.

There's no reason why this bug is coming back all the time. I just keep the back up till it's coming back though:)

[mindfrost82]

Here are my latest reg settings. I still have 3-4 seconds of speed lag according to the speedometer, but if I'm watching the GPS cursor on the screen it usually stops as my car does.

These settings also keep Garmin connected for the most part by using COM4 (not Intermediate driver). With other settings Garmin would always drop the GPS connection for a second or two.

HKLM\Software\HTC\SUPL AGPS
QoSAccuracy - 0
QoSPerformance - 0
(not sure if these actually did anything or not)

HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\
Logs - Null

\Drivers
InputBufferSize - 512
OutputBufferSize - 256
RetryWaitOnError - 1
SleepOnNoData - 1500

\GPSOneDevice
PollInterval - 500

[fourcc]

mindfrost, you are changing your settings every week, you will make me crazy! :D


do you use the agps settings that use the nokia servers?
or do you prefer to turn off AGPS?
i would like to know your opinion about it. :)

[mharis]

Im having a problem whit instaling igo8 on my htc , i have a brand licensed ver. of igo8 and igo6 and when i installed it on my htc it starting and d nthing ?
Also i have a cracked full ver. of igo8 who works well n my MIO P560 and i do same thing to put it on my HTC Pro and its also after instaling starting and do nothing so i wonder des anybody have an IDEA ?
Haris M.

[harweyko]

O2 published GPS fix for XDA Serra, on Diamond forum there is post that it detects the ROM of the device and won`t install, could someone of you have a look at this? Could be find here: http://www.my-xda.com/software_updates.jsp or below:

[mindfrost82]

mindfrost, you are changing your settings every week, you will make me crazy! :D


do you use the agps settings that use the nokia servers?
or do you prefer to turn off AGPS?
i would like to know your opinion about it. :)
Sorry about that lol, I just notice little things that don't work right, so I try to tweak it to find the best settings.

I used these settings on a 660mi trip last weekend and it worked pretty good for me.

As far as aGPS, I have it disabled. Care to point me in the direction of the Nokia Servers info? I haven't seen that yet.

[fourcc]

here mindfrost: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=478199

and check there also my post to see my conclusions about it: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3267765&postcount=14

[mindfrost82]

here mindfrost: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=478199

and check there also my post to see my conclusions about it: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3267765&postcount=14
Thanks, I just set it up to try with AT&T, so we'll see in about an hour on my way home what happens :)

[fourcc]

i 'm curious about your experience with these agps settings.

[noellenchris]

I had agps setup for 2 days now and don't see a difference.

TomTom hasn't lagged for me in weeks though, still just the speed lag.

Garmin XT still lags about 3-4 sec in both position and speed.

I've changed all kinds of settings and nothing seems to make a difference.

I'll continue to search and tweak in the hopes of finding out why Garmin is slow to update and why the Rafael still has speed lag.

Someday:(

[Orbitrix]

side by side

My friends Touch Pro from sprint

My ATT Fuze form ATT


my friend's touch pro gets a lock consistantly in 20-30 seconds, 7-8 satalites INDOORS.... consistantly..... he doesnt even know what im talking about when i say i have GPS issues with my fuze.. he's never experienced any

my phone, sitting right next to his, indoors, cant get a fix... ever... period...

its freaking embarrassing... whats the deal?

stock rom, stock radio
fresh reboot
fresh download from QuickGPS
latest google maps
there really shouldnt be the need for much preperation beyond that unless there is a serious deffect


should i really look into a new radio for my phone?


we're using google maps as a test app on both of our phones (the new one with latitude)


ATT has really never said anything about this?

[noellenchris]

side by side

My friends Touch Pro from sprint

My ATT Fuze form ATT


my friend's touch pro gets a lock consistantly in 20-30 seconds, 7-8 satalites INDOORS.... consistantly..... he doesnt even know what im talking about when i say i have GPS issues with my fuze.. he's never experienced any

my phone, sitting right next to his, indoors, cant get a fix... ever... period...

its freaking embarrassing... whats the deal?

stock rom, stock radio
fresh reboot
fresh download from QuickGPS
latest google maps
there really shouldnt be the need for much preperation beyond that unless there is a serious deffect


should i really look into a new radio for my phone?


we're using google maps as a test app on both of our phones (the new one with latitude)


ATT has really never said anything about this?

Have you disabled the "AGPS" ? The default agps settings break the GPS...also you need to set the gps to com4. Let us know what you have tried, we can get it working. The only thing I haven't seen working right on any of the Diamonds or Touch Pro's is speed lag. When you come to a complete stop it takes about 3sec for the speed to report 0. :)

[silencery]

I've got the same exact issues as Orbitrix.

ATT Fuze
Elite RC3
Fresh QuickGPS download
AGPS disabled

Only managed to get a fix once in Google Maps when I was outside.

I've only seen GPS Test get 4 sats at most, and it constantly seems to reset back to 'Looking for GPS unit' for some strange reason. I'm going to poke around some more for a solution...

[noellenchris]

I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, but everyone should download the HTC Tool below

http://www.4shared.com/file/62152575..._GPS_TOOL.html (http://www.4shared.com/file/62152575/905fae26/Nadavi_HTC_GPS_TOOL.html)

and follow these directions. This way you are baselined and starting the GPS with fresh sat almanac.

"Clear Memory"

Here is detailed step by step instruction:

From the "Settings" Tab:
- select COM Port: COM4 (for TP or Diamond)
- select Baudrate: 57600 (for TP or Diamond)
- select "Clear Memory" from dropout under "Open" button
- click "Open" button

Now You can select "Information" Tab and wait till "Mode 2" under "GNSS DOP..." shows "3D".

Return to the "Settings" Tab, click "Close" and exit program.

Now you can run quickGPS and see if you get a fix faster & more accurate.

You can also experiment with registry settings / radio roms.

[fourcc]

noellenchris, is this tool the same than the GPSOneApp tool or is it another one?

Which is the benefit of using this tool? as a gps kicker? to set the gps to read or not to read quickgps and/or agps data? and then deduce if Qgps and orAgps are helping the GPS? for what do you use this tool?

[noellenchris]

noellenchris, is this tool the same than the GPSOneApp tool or is it another one?

Which is the benefit of using this tool? as a gps kicker? to set the gps to read or not to read quickgps and/or agps data? and then deduce if Qgps and orAgps are helping the GPS? for what do you use this tool?

It's really not a kicker and shouldn't be done everytime. Just after making a registry change , flashing a new radio rom or when the gps seems slow to find sats and you don't know why. It forces the gps to "fine align" with a fresh updated data.

It's not the same. The directions I stated in the above post are for clearing the gps using the HTC tool... I haven't tried to clear the gps using the GPSOneApp.

I have found that sometimes the GPS is slow to find sats and then I flash a new radio and it finds sats in seconds. Then after flashing other radios, it's slow even on the same radio that found them in seconds. But if I clear the GPS it's quick again. I think Sleuth stated somewhere in the thread to power off the GPS for a few then power back on after making registry settings. I believe this is sorta the same trick to clear the GPS. Then you can get a good base for how the reg changes or new radio actually performs etc. Otherwise you will get mixed results and the "new radio or reg change" may seem to be a magic fix for you but not others.

So logically this will help baseline our progress for others too. Of course "roms & hardware" will also affect results so that should be posted too for others to compare.

[fourcc]

I have found that sometimes the GPS is slow to find sats and then I flash a new radio and it finds sats in seconds. Then after flashing other radios, it's slow even on the same radio that found them in seconds. But if I clear the GPS it's quick again. I think Sleuth stated somewhere in the thread to power off the GPS for a few then power back on after making registry settings. I believe this is sorta the same trick to clear the GPS. Then you can get a good base for how the reg changes or new radio actually performs etc. Otherwise you will get mixed results and the "new radio or reg change" may seem to be a magic fix for you but not others.


you have confirmed my suspicions.
It has hapenned the same to me several times.
Each time i flash a new rom i get near instantaneous gps fixes in cold start of course (only quickgps) in 10 seconds !

after a while, installing apps and some days later, with the same radio and GPS reg settings i don't get so quick fixes.

so it seems that gps data is becoming corrupt somewhere in the device and this makes the gps react slower in subsequent gps tries.

so what we should do is to empty/clean this gps stored data and try again, right?

thanks you very much noellenchris

i will follow your guidelines.

[noellenchris]

you have confirmed my suspicions.
It has hapenned the same to me several times.
Each time i flash a new rom i get near instantaneous gps fixes in cold start of course (only quickgps) in 10 seconds !

after a while, installing apps and some days later, with the same radio and GPS reg settings i don't get so quick fixes.

so it seems that gps data is becoming corrupt somewhere in the device and this makes the gps react slower in subsequent gps tries.

so what we should do is to empty/clean this gps stored data and try again, right?

thanks you very much noellenchris


i will follow your guidelines.


That's what I find works for me. I was going crazy trying to figure out why one radio worked great for me before, but then it was slow as mollasses. Clearing the radio seems to work well. Let me know how it works for you as well. As for AGPS, it's still enabled on mine, but I don't seem to notice any difference. I have no position lag with tomtom. Garmin has always lagged on my rafael. Speed lag is on every gps program I tried and even evident in the raw data.

[Sleuth255]

Just a quick point about agps and the different raphael flavors:

It's working great on the CDMA phones b/c Sprint has their servers active. Not so with GSM raphaels. What does this mean? CDMA Raphaels get a lock in 30 seconds consistantly. Side by side comparisons will show this.

[petard]

What are the aGPS settings for HTC branded Touch Pros? Do those GPS work fine? Does the Diamond suffer from crappy GPS?

[doctajay]

I installed the GPSRegedit.cab and the Blackstone 1.10.25.25 radio and my GPS works great with no positional lag. For those that don't want to read through all 92 pages like I did, you can at least start with those 2 steps.

[rwijnhov]

ok tnx for the info.

[Operation619]

Just a quick point about agps and the different raphael flavors:

It's working great on the CDMA phones b/c Sprint has their servers active. Not so with GSM raphaels. What does this mean? CDMA Raphaels get a lock in 30 seconds consistantly. Side by side comparisons will show this.

There is more to it than appears.

CDMA is a synchronous network. Everything is time synced to a much tighter time domain. The more precise time you have available to the GPS receiver, the better your AGPS performance.

Yes, it also helps greatly that both CDMA carriers here in the US are more aggressive on their user-plane LBS initiatives than their GSM brethren.

[TarKin]

I was successful in porting the LG Incite GPS driver, HTC GPS Tool won't work with it though because it uses the standard microsoft GPSID and HTC GPS Tool talks to GPSID_HTC.dll..

So far it hasn't given me a magically working AGPS, but it functions :) I haven't had a chance to do a driving test for lag yet.. but if there's going to be a fix other than NVRAM or a radio ROM or new hardware, this will be it :)

Edit: except it wont spit me out any satellites! :( i dont get the PSTIS string either.. interesting.

any update on this one? :)

[Da_G]

I observed no marked difference when using the LG Incite GPS drivers, the problem is more lower level than that it seems.

I think our only hope for this is to access the radio ROM. right now i'm stuck with that, I need a translation from chinese, I posted over in the questions and answers forum but i think it's fallen to about page 6 or so.. i know what .dll's are key to accessing the radio rom, i know how to load them, but i don't know how to communicate with them.. i think the key is in that chinese translation..

[Erythros]

Just for reference.

I have used tomtom 5 on the 6700 then upgraded to Tomtom 6 and since the 6700 had no internal GPS I used an external bluetooth GPS receiver. I never had lag problems using this setup.

I Then upgraded the phone to a 6800 with a stock ROM and I used the same tomtom 6 program. I used the internal GPS with the AGPS assist and did not experience any lag, but there was a marked improvement in satelite acquisition time as well as number of satelites acquired.

Now I have the TP using Mightyrom and while Acquisition time is the same I have noticed the lag mentioned in this post.

If anyone can figure out why the 6800 does not exhibit the lag while the TP does this might help.

On each device I used the same COM 4 configuration.
On each device the program was installed to main memory with the maps on the storage card.

[lotion]

I installed the GPSRegedit.cab and the Blackstone 1.10.25.25 radio and my GPS works great with no positional lag. For those that don't want to read through all 92 pages like I did, you can at least start with those 2 steps.

Mind pointing us lazy folk to the cab? I can't seem to find it (I quit reading about 10 pages back).

[Cloneman]

disabled asisted GPS
log file : \windows\GPSLogFile.txt
old log : \windows\GPSLogFieBack.txt
log file size 32

1.90.401.1 WWE
radio 1.02.25.19

Run ok with:
AutoMapa 5.3
iGO 8.3
Garmin 5.0.0.20

Outside i have gps position in 20 seconds

[maw]

Hey Guys

Just wondering if Da_G and Sleuth tried the new Raphael radio 1.11.25.01 to check and see if the lag has been corrected with this radio. Can anyone raport back??

THANKS!!!

[mindfrost82]

Hey Guys

Just wondering if Da_G and Sleuth tried the new Raphael radio 1.11.25.01 to check and see if the lag has been corrected with this radio. Can anyone raport back??

THANKS!!!
I'm running it along with the leaked ROM and the speed lag is still there for me.

[maw]

hmmmm thats too bad to hear that! I'm still waiting on an official ROM release from HTC which has been promised for so many months.... Maybe a combination with this new radio will make a difference. I haven't tried the leaked ROM as yet, so I'll give HTC until end of the month to come with a release....

[doctajay]

Mind pointing us lazy folk to the cab? I can't seem to find it (I quit reading about 10 pages back).

here you go

[04orgzx6r]

Hey guys I have a Sprint Touch Pro, and I am Using TT7.....
I haven't changed anything with anvanced config or through Reg edits and I get a fix within 30-40 seconds....

My problem is the "jumpiness" of the cursor and the lag(behind a block)...
Will the Edits in the first post fix my problem?
Is there something better to do for the Sprint Touch Pro?

I tried wading through this thread but it is hard because most of you guys have the fuxe, LOL...
Any and all help will be appreciated, Thanks in advance!

[mike99]

Hey guys I have a Sprint Touch Pro, and I am Using TT7.....
I haven't changed anything with anvanced config or through Reg edits and I get a fix within 30-40 seconds....

My problem is the "jumpiness" of the cursor and the lag(behind a block)...
Will the Edits in the first post fix my problem?
Is there something better to do for the Sprint Touch Pro?

I tried wading through this thread but it is hard because most of you guys have the fuxe, LOL...
Any and all help will be appreciated, Thanks in advance!

I installed Omnia and d3d drivers, followed suggestions in post#1, and replaced Sprint branded TeleNav with a generic version.

I got rid of the lag almost completely, especially with TT7. There is still jumpiness using TeleNav and Amaze GPS. This seem to be related to the low screen refresh rate. Using hybrid or sat view maps usually worse than 2D nav with simple maps.

I also did cache tweaks few pages back.

Hope that works for you too.

[noellenchris]

I installed Omnia and d3d drivers, followed suggestions in post#1, and replaced Sprint branded TeleNav with a generic version.

I got rid of the lag almost completely, especially with TT7. There is still jumpiness using TeleNav and Amaze GPS. This seem to be related to the low screen refresh rate. Using hybrid or sat view maps usually worse than 2D nav with simple maps.

I also did cache tweaks few pages back.

Hope that works for you too.


Did anyone ever figure out which driver "Diamond", "Omnia" or the "LG Incite" are best?

edit: I'm currently running the xperia drivers ... I forgot them lol

[04orgzx6r]

I installed Omnia and d3d drivers, followed suggestions in post#1, and replaced Sprint branded TeleNav with a generic version.

I got rid of the lag almost completely, especially with TT7. There is still jumpiness using TeleNav and Amaze GPS. This seem to be related to the low screen refresh rate. Using hybrid or sat view maps usually worse than 2D nav with simple maps.

I also did cache tweaks few pages back.

Hope that works for you too.
Thanks, guess I will try those things, so the Omnia and d3d drivers seem to work well....

Anyone else have a good setup with CDMA?

[mike99]

Did anyone ever figure out which driver "Diamond", "Omnia" or the "LG Incite" are best?

edit: I'm currently running the xperia drivers ... I forgot them lol

I did not see any definitely positive result after direct comparison either here or at PPCGeeks. I did several changes at once and overall lag has improved. Not sure which ones acually worked.

What about the Xperia drivers? Do you fthink they improved performance?

For me, it seems like the main problem on my TP is SLOW refresh rate. Not quite sure if graphics drivers are helpful, but...

Would you recomment xperia driver instead???

Thanks.

Mike

[cmloo]

No it wont. Xperia suffers from the same positioning lag like its Raphael brother.

[04orgzx6r]

Hmmm so, if I have my maps on my memory card, would it me better to install TT7 to my memory card or my main memory?

[noellenchris]

I did not see any definitely positive result after direct comparison either here or at PPCGeeks. I did several changes at once and overall lag has improved. Not sure which ones acually worked.

What about the Xperia drivers? Do you fthink they improved performance?

For me, it seems like the main problem on my TP is SLOW refresh rate. Not quite sure if graphics drivers are helpful, but...

Would you recomment xperia driver instead???

Thanks.

Mike

Most of the mapping software uses 2D & not 3D, I haven't noticed the difference and I tried the xperia , ATI Diamond & Omnia drivers. I was just wondering if anyone did 3D testing and concluded a winner.... But this is the wrong thread I guess for that.

W/TomTom, I don't have any positional lag, just speed lag. I'm still waitin for an update from Garmin for Mobile XT. Last one was in Sept 08 and it's a slow update / refresh bugger!

[behrouz]

Ive been getting consistent locks with this setup:

COM4 @57600 baudrate and buffers set at 256 using google maps.

I havent had a chance to test for lag but will try it out tomoro.

[Golden Boy]

In my Touch Pro the lag is... tolerable
My problem is that I bought Touch Pro so that I would use its Gps to warn me from speed cameras
The problem is that when I exceed 145-150 km/h I lose GPS signal and I must drop below 130 or even 120 km/h for my TP to find gps signal again
Is there anything I can do?

[NLS]

I just want to report that with radio 1.11.25.1 I saw a HUMONGOUS improvement in GPS performance.

[behrouz]

The settings I wrote up above seem to fix my GPS woes. A steady fix on 9-10 satellites and the only time I lost my fix was when I went into an underground tunnel during my commute. :D

[havoc99]

Hello all. Just thought I'd share my findings here. Today I took a trip with the wife to Bath which is approx 150 miles from London where I stay. Right now I have the Raphael HTC WWE 5.05.405.1 ROM installed (link is in my signature) and the Xperia Radio 1.10.25.18. I also installed TT7 (7.910 (9185)) as well as Sleuth-GPSIDRegFix.cab installed. Before my trip i disabled all the POI's from the display map and I tried to use it on my return trip back from Bath. It seemed that my GPS lock was really fast (not sure of timing) and TT worked better and faster than my TomTom GO 730T. I noticed no lag while travelling between 20-30mph and even between 60-85mph! Just thought i'd share my findings. :)

[NLS]

You choice of course but why don't you use the radio that accompanied your ROM?

(i.e. 1.11)

Did you try it and didn't like it?

[behrouz]

I emailed HTC about the GPS problems and this was there reply.

Thank you for your inquiry about your HTC Fuze.



I understand the need to have the best information to utilize your device. At this time, there are no known issues regarding GPS with the HTC Fuze. If you are having issues with your GPS on the device, you may want to contact us about your specific issues so we can help you resolve them. I apologize for the inconvenience.



Lol...

[eu_beu]

Hi, yesterday I installed the new official ROM version. It seem that is a little bit "speedy". Also at the gps seem to work much better. The positioning is more accurate. The "finding" process of the satellites is quicker.
But there are two issues that I don't like at this new version of ROM:
1. the "answering" mode of the phone is stoopid, i think, with the "sliding" cursor.
2. the "active sync" is always open like process. In the original version it wasn't like this.

[htcplussony]

I had the opposite with active sync. The original rom, it was listed as running and now doesn't in the update.

[beowulf6]

Hi Everyone.

I never posted here about any GPS-Lag because my TouchPro never had any Lag in position. My only problem was that the GPS was sometimes not accurate in the left/right position and the IGO software was thinking i am driving on a street directly right or left of my position.

I updated to the official HTC Update and installed the "GPSOneApp".

yesterday i tried it while driving home with the train, and it seemed it was this time really spot-on. IGO showed the position directly on the coated(i hope the translation is correct) linie that is the train-line on the map.

I Dont know if it is because of the update or from this software where i enabled the option "Accuracy Optimal".
Of course i will test it some more.


PS: is there possibly the application missing in the update to recieve files directly to the storage card? or was it an additional software that i installed? :rolleyes:

[noellenchris]

Hi Everyone.

I never posted here about any GPS-Lag because my TouchPro never had any Lag in position. My only problem was that the GPS was sometimes not accurate in the left/right position and the IGO software was thinking i am driving on a street directly right or left of my position.

I updated to the official HTC Update and installed the "GPSOneApp".

yesterday i tried it while driving home with the train, and it seemed it was this time really spot-on. IGO showed the position directly on the coated(i hope the translation is correct) linie that is the train-line on the map.

I Dont know if it is because of the update or from this software where i enabled the option "Accuracy Optimal".
Of course i will test it some more.


PS: is there possibly the application missing in the update to recieve files directly to the storage card? or was it an additional software that i installed? :rolleyes:


Has anyone looked to see if they have speed lag. Position lag for me was fixed via reg tweaks. NOTHING i've tried fixes the SPEED lag. ie: when i come to a complete stop it takes about 3-4sec for the reported gps speed to read 0. & when starting from a stop it takes about 3-4 sec to catch up to actual speed.

[schnitzelbrain]

Has anyone looked to see if they have speed lag. Position lag for me was fixed via reg tweaks. NOTHING i've tried fixes the SPEED lag. ie: when i come to a complete stop it takes about 3-4sec for the reported gps speed to read 0. & when starting from a stop it takes about 3-4 sec to catch up to actual speed.

I think the speed lag is not completly from the gps itself. the software counts up to get a speed prediction and when the GPS signeal disappears it does a little bit of dead reckoning to keep calculating with the last data. so u don't really loose the path when gps disappeares. (Maybe lowering the GPS buffer makes a difference, but than the position will get unsteady.)
It takes than the last possition and integrades it from the max down to 0. Its always a matter of jumping around sensitiv or smoothed (integraded) speed/position

[NLS]

1. the "answering" mode of the phone is stoopid, i think, with the "sliding" cursor.

you must be the only one thinking like that
there have been HACKS to enable this before (and rip it from touch HD that was already using it), there have been numerous 3rd party attempts to lock the screen and protect accidental answering... and you don't like S2A?

hehehe

ok

[noellenchris]

I think the speed lag is not completly from the gps itself. the software counts up to get a speed prediction and when the GPS signeal disappears it does a little bit of dead reckoning to keep calculating with the last data. so u don't really loose the path when gps disappeares. (Maybe lowering the GPS buffer makes a difference, but than the position will get unsteady.)
It takes than the last possition and integrades it from the max down to 0. Its always a matter of jumping around sensitiv or smoothed (integraded) speed/position


When I use my bluetooth GPS, the speed is right on. I've tried....The problem is in the radio roms, Da_G has been looking into this for months.

[Sleuth255]

Has anyone looked to see if they have speed lag. Position lag for me was fixed via reg tweaks. NOTHING i've tried fixes the SPEED lag. ie: when i come to a complete stop it takes about 3-4sec for the reported gps speed to read 0. & when starting from a stop it takes about 3-4 sec to catch up to actual speed.

IMHO, that's as good as it will get noellenchris. It's chip related. Even the tilt has speed lag (not as bad as the fuze though). You can see this on my video on post 400.

[Black1982]

I think the speed lag is not completly from the gps itself. the software counts up to get a speed prediction and when the GPS signeal disappears it does a little bit of dead reckoning to keep calculating with the last data. so u don't really loose the path when gps disappeares. (Maybe lowering the GPS buffer makes a difference, but than the position will get unsteady.)
It takes than the last possition and integrades it from the max down to 0. Its always a matter of jumping around sensitiv or smoothed (integraded) speed/position

I agree!

I don't get why the "speed lag" is a problem, except for perfectionist types.
Tomtom works great. The arrow stops when i'm stopped even if the speed indication is wrong for a few seconds.

Since my last post i've tested my tomtom for about 3000 kms and it spot on all the time.

[lukas718]

I tried that and I can't get iguidance 09 to start on my phone ( touch pro - sprint ) - any ideas how to fix that ?:confused:

I am using AstroGPSLauncher and the attached files. This will start the GPSGate (if not already running) and will launch the IGuidance. I have set GPSGate to COM4 and baud rate to 4800, output to COM1 and in IGuidance COM1 and baud rate 4800.

The attached files are originally from

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=364199
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=363431 (check post #4 for IGuidance)


Only thing I changed is, the script was pointing to IGuidanceQVGA.exe and I changed to IGuidanceVGA.exe

I am using IGuidance 2009.

Instructions are in iGuidanceInternalGPSLauncher.msc

Even I didn't find any difference using with GPSGate.

[kk0813]

I tried that and I can't get iguidance 09 to start on my phone ( touch pro - sprint ) - any ideas how to fix that ?:confused:

What exactly is not working? Are you using GPSGate? I am not sure with Sprint, but with ATT, when the data connection is active IGuidance takes lot of time to launch, I have to make sure data connection is disconnected before I launch IGuidance, then it comes up very fast. What exactly are you trying to do?

[kk0813]

Looks like some of my files on my 8gb microsd card are corrupted, they does not look like files but looks like some small square symbols, I got this card when I purchased IGuidance 2009. If I take the backup of the card (all the readable files) and format the card and copy the files back will the gps works?(assuming all the gps files are readable). I want to know if I format the card, does IGuidance recognize the card?. Did any one had this problem before? (with Iguidance or any other gps software). Will there be any licence issues with gps software after it's formatted?

Is there any check disk tool which can check the card and fix the errors?

[JJKameR]

It's been month now that I am using my diamond with no lag or problem on Navigon 7.3.1, iGo 8.3.2 and TomTom 7.9.

Last week I have decided to upgrade iGo to 8.3.2.7 and to configure for TTS.
No problem with the upgrade but afterwards the gps on iGo keeps disconnecting.

The fix is around 1 minute (with GPS ephemerids downloaded) while before it was about 5 seconds and the signal keeps disconnecting every 2 or 3 seconds.

My registry gps tweaks weren't changed:

Under: HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\

- Drivers\GpsOneDevice\PollInterval -> 256 (default is 1000)
- Drivers\InputBufferSize -> 256 (default is 4096)
- Drivers\OutputBufferSize -> 128 (default is 4096)
- Drivers\SleepOnNoData -> 100 (default is 1000)
- Multiplexer\MaxBufferSize -> 256

Navigon 7 is working like a charm (it's really PERFECT).
TomTom 7.9 is working really good.

iGo now keeps losing signal and has random lag surely dued to this issue.

Has anyone other experienced this change in behaviour from 8.3.2.6 to 8.3.2.7?

I will mess around my gps settings to raise the buffer size and see if it will help it.

Thanks in advance!

[crav4speed]

Has anyone other experienced this change in behaviour from 8.3.2.6 to 8.3.2.7?


I've been having problems with all versions of iGo8... also did the upgrade to 8.3.2.7 and my GPS sucks the same

[htcplussony]

Got OCN8 which I guess is iGO8.0? Got a weird problem. The moment .net cf 3.5 is installed, the gps once connected would turn off and on and off ... in OCN8 in about 1 second intervals.

I'm on 5.05 firmware but never installed .net 3.5 on the old one.

[fiuner]

I just got my Touch Pro from repair. They changed the motherboard, but the GPS-lag is still there with original software and current ROMeOS. It is not depending on navigating software either. Same results with TomTom and Google Maps.

I find it very hard to believe that someone has a Touch Pro without the GPS-lag. :(

[JJKameR]

I've been having problems with all versions of iGo8... also did the upgrade to 8.3.2.7 and my GPS sucks the same

Well after some testing I have realized that it's not a version or gps issue.
It's the damn fake 3d building feature.
Without 3d buildings I have got no lag at all.

I wonder when they will start to write some decent opengl code instead of messing up with software accelleration.

[crav4speed]

Well after some testing I have realized that it's not a version or gps issue.
It's the damn fake 3d building feature.
Without 3d buildings I have got no lag at all.

I wonder when they will start to write some decent opengl code instead of messing up with software accelleration.

Really??? Did you remove the content from your storage card or did you just disable it under the settings? I will Test tomorrow and report back.

Also tried iGuidance 2009. No 3d stuff but it still exhibits GPS lag.

[mindfrost82]

With iGo 8.3.2 with the new 1.12 BS radio with the rilphone.dll for that radio and NATF v4.4, and some reg tweaks, I had sub-1-second speed lag.

I still had 2-3 second speed lag using Garmin, but I think that's because of the screen refresh rate with that program, its not as smooth as iGo.

I also tried iGuidance 2009 and it was between the 2. The refresh rate isn't as smooth as iGo, but it seems to be less than the once-per-second Garmin rate.

EDIT: These are the reg settings I'm using--

PollInterval = 1000
InputBufferSize = 256
OutputBufferSize = 128
SleepOnNoData = 1500
RetryWaitOnError = 1 (I don't think this one has been mentioned before, anyone know what it actually does?)
Mutliplexer MaxBufferSize = 512
MaxLogFileSize = 0
Current & Old Log Files are null

To get these to work in Garmin, I had to set it to 'GPS Intermediate Driver' instead of COM4.

[Sleuth255]

I just got my Touch Pro from repair. They changed the motherboard, but the GPS-lag is still there with original software and current ROMeOS. It is not depending on navigating software either. Same results with TomTom and Google Maps.

I find it very hard to believe that someone has a Touch Pro without the GPS-lag. :(

See post 400 ;)

Of course, if you have a CDMA Raphael then all bets are off... Test was with GSM version.

[crav4speed]

I do experience the speed lag issue but what's killing me is positional lag. I'll be in the middle of an intersection and the arrow will position me about 2-3 seconds behind approximately at the middle of the block.

iGo does have a faster refresh rate than iGuidance but both exhibit the same positional lag issue and both put me at the same wrong position. I find iGuidance to lock satellites faster and keep them locked whereas iGo has issues and bounces my arrow all over the map.

I've been following this thread since i bought my Fuze and have tried all the reg tweaks. They only seem to make things worse. When I revert to stock reg values, my GPS runs better. Also, it does not matter what you set garmin to use. As long as you have Windows set to manage the GPS automatically and the program port set to com4 under your settings, then you can set Garmin to com4 or GPS Intermediate Driver. Either way, it will always access the GPS Intermediate Driver.

I would love try the new blackstone radio but I'm not security unlocked so I'm stuck with raph radios for now. I'm using the latest raph radio and although I get faster locks, the positional lag still sucks.

[Sleuth255]

If you have a new fuze (GSM Raphael) then you have a good shot at removing positional lag.

Run a rom that supports the newer GPS drivers
Radios don't improve positional lag, only acquisition time so ralph radios will work fine
Run the reg settings defined here
Use TomTom (you'll know if you have the correct rom b/c it will recognize the built-in gps receiver)

[s00perbrat]

ai ai ai :eek:..........that doesn't look good
still hoped it was a software problem, but now I am gona loose my faith :(

Used GPS with both Wayfinder and now Garmin mobile XT and both exhibit the lag. Also will sometimes show my position as on the slipway instead of on the freeway where these 2 roads run next to each other.

Have applied the Advanced config tweaks.

Same ROM with both pieces of software. 1.90.421.1 WWE dated 08/03/08

[fiuner]

See post 400 ;)

Of course, if you have a CDMA Raphael then all bets are off... Test was with GSM version.

I have a GSM version. Yeah, I know that some people have a Touch Pro without the GPS-lag, but seeing that I can't get rid of it by changing software or hardware, I still find it hard to believe :D.

It is not end of the world though. Now that I have gotten used to the lag, I can navigate pretty easily. I think it is more of a perfection thing than a real problem. Of course if you need navigation daily, it would be a bigger problem.

[Kirakira]

If you have a new fuze (GSM Raphael) then you have a good shot at removing positional lag.

Run a rom that supports the newer GPS drivers
Radios don't improve positional lag, only acquisition time so ralph radios will work fine
Run the reg settings defined here
Use TomTom (you'll know if you have the correct rom b/c it will recognize the built-in gps receiver)
What are those gps drivers you are talking about ?

[HTC Chris]

i swear im going crazy over this gps lol. I changed my settings to this http://blog.mohdimran.com/2008/11/htc-touch-pro-gps-problem-tweaking.html Did not work right way, but after a few soft resets and letting my phone sit for satellites i finally found them :confused:

inconsistent though :(

[Sleuth255]

What are those gps drivers you are talking about ?

The first versions appeared in a Diamond Test ROM and were quickly incorporated into Da-G's (and others) Roms. I'm running a derivative of the ROM listed in my sig that had these.

[fiuner]

The first versions appeared in a Diamond Test ROM and were quickly incorporated into Da-G's (and others) Roms. I'm running a derivative of the ROM listed in my sig that had these.

Does anyone know if these drivers are in ROMeOS v1.81.1, or were they added to that recent ROM update from HTC?

[fusi]

im woefully disappointed with thishandset - came from a kaiser (this raph came on insurance) and i wanted a kaiser but t-mobile dont have any left apparently. ive been siting here watching it try to find satelites for >2 hours now. this handset is a peice of sh*t. so many flaws. the kaiser didnt have hw gfx accel but at least it worked. and dont get me started on the sh*tty software.

hyper angry and feeling raped.

boo htc - i thought you might of listened after the kaiser drivers - clearly not.

im going to sell this brick and get a real phone that WORKS (aka not a htc).

</vent>


-----
edit:

sorry about that vent, i was being a bit hard on it - its not so bad i suppose - it actually found some satellites in the end! ..after *literally* 3 hours :/

[crav4speed]

If you have a new fuze (GSM Raphael) then you have a good shot at removing positional lag.

Run a rom that supports the newer GPS drivers
Radios don't improve positional lag, only acquisition time so ralph radios will work fine
Run the reg settings defined here
Use TomTom (you'll know if you have the correct rom b/c it will recognize the built-in gps receiver)

hmm... I didn't know that. I guess I have no choice but to flash a new rom. I tried disabling the 3D stuff in iGo but I'm sill getting positional lag. I was kinda happy with the stock at&t rom which is why I didn't upgrade sooner and just thought I'd wait for a stable 6.5 rom. Oh well...

Thanks sleuth :)

[Sleuth255]

im woefully disappointed with thishandset - came from a kaiser (this raph came on insurance) and i wanted a kaiser but t-mobile dont have any left apparently. ive been siting here watching it try to find satelites for >2 hours now. this handset is a peice of sh*t. so many flaws. the kaiser didnt have hw gfx accel but at least it worked. and dont get me started on the sh*tty software.

hyper angry and feeling raped.

boo htc - i thought you might of listened after the kaiser drivers - clearly not.

im going to sell this brick and get a real phone that WORKS (aka not a htc).

</vent>


-----
edit:

sorry about that vent, i was being a bit hard on it - its not so bad i suppose - it actually found some satellites in the end! ..after *literally* 3 hours :/

To improve acquisition time you need to flash a better radio ROM. Blackstone radios are the absolute best for just about everything IMO but you'll need to unlock to flash them.

[mindfrost82]

To improve acquisition time you need to flash a better radio ROM. Blackstone radios are the absolute best for just about everything IMO but you'll need to unlock to flash them.
The newest 1.12 Blackstone radio has been great for me so far. I also used the rilphone.dll file for that radio (only try this if your ROM supports it).

Its given me the fastest GPS locks, the excellent Blackstone call quality I've had from all their radios, good signal, etc. I think the 1.09.25.35 gave me a little better battery life, but wasn't as good in the other areas.

Overall I must say that the Blackstone radios have been my favorite of ALL the radios I've tried, especially in terms of call quality on Edge.

[fusi]

thanks for the suggestions guys, ill see about unlocking my handset (sim unlock right?) and flash a blackstone radio (currently using stock 1.02.25.19 - yuk)

cheers!

[mindfrost82]

thanks for the suggestions guys, ill see about unlocking my handset (sim unlock right?) and flash a blackstone radio (currently using stock 1.02.25.19 - yuk)

cheers!
NO, to flash a radio from another phone you need to be Security Unlocked. You can be SIM unlocked as well if you want, but at the tri-color screen it needs to have a white bar that says "Security Unlocked" at the top, otherwise you'll get an error and it won't work.

[itchytweed]

My Fuze/Raphael has in it the stock radio - 1.02.25.32. What I plan on doing, for the benefit of the group, is to do a test. Since all I have around my place is bare trees, this will help. I am going to use TGPS 2.x and record a fixed, repeatable path, consisting of an entrance to a loop that will do three circuits around, with snap corners at all turns, with one end of the loop getting longer and the other end being traced over all the time. I can then import that into my GIS program to display the loop. I will also have SUPL AGPS disabled.

Since my unit is not security unlocked, which is the latest 1.11 radio that I can put into the unit. I will then run the same track and compare the two with the same registry settings in the GIS program and check for errors.

My personal belief is that the GPS software should not be filtering the software, just putting out the raw data and let the user decide on any filtering. The positional delay on startup and position lag, even at walking is annoying when doing geocaching.

Also, when starting up this unit cold in the standalone option - no AGPS support, I am finding that the GPS is spitting out an erroneous constellation listing almost all satellites until it gets a good lock then the constellation display changes to something totally different. It appears that my unit is not storing the almanac/ephemeris and consulting it on startup. Not a good thing and poor design.

-- Itchytweed

[Sleuth255]

...Also, when starting up this unit cold in the standalone option - no AGPS support, I am finding that the GPS is spitting out an erroneous constellation listing almost all satellites until it gets a good lock then the constellation display changes to something totally different. It appears that my unit is not storing the almanac/ephemeris and consulting it on startup. Not a good thing and poor design.


Yep. Saw this too. 16 slots listed with invalid PRNs loaded at startup. Then it would find one bird and start downloading ephemeris data. Once complete, the whole constellation would change. Lock would follow soon after. Classic cold start.

FWIW, it seems to be Radio ROM related since this behavior changed for me when I went to a blackstone radio. It appears to be able to inject almanac data from QuickGPS to get a warm start more often.

[itchytweed]

I've done two things since my last post. 1) Did a run in the car recording every second and putting it into my GIS program, and 2) An accuracy test by letting the Fuze occupy a landmark.

1) Positional lag is down to about one second (can't really complain unless you use adaptive feed-forward). Running iGuidance v.3 is now usable. I get the turn alarms where they need to be, not after the fact. Speed lag on decel is still there, running about 2 - 3 seconds. On startup, the speed lag is one second (one sample). I can buy that. Plus, at stop, I am getting distributed points instead of one point so it appears that at zero speed, there is no "static navigation", just zero speed being sent out. I would think that if your point moved, you would have a speed associated with it so I can't buy the zero speed output - still not right.

2) I have an NGS benchmark station near where I work. So I let the phone occupy the mark for about ten minutes. I should have gone 30 minutes but my schedule didn't allow for it. I sat the phone right on top of the brass marker (no carping on multipath issues please) and did the recording. I found that my results were off by about 2.5 meters from the reference. Ideally, I should do three-four occupations when the constellations are ideal and very low DOP's are present, but I don't have that luxury. I know that the environment around me was affecting the readings with multipath because I was keeping track of passing vehicles and their times and I could see the abberations in the data when they passed by (give me choke ring antennae and a Thales ProMark 3 RTK system).

I would say that HTC has made improvement in the software but it has a good way to go. There should be no speed averaging / integration, there should be speed out when the vehicle is stopped and the measured point moved (speed should be one sample behind, no more). All this is in the radio software and no where else.

One more comment about HTC, it appears that their drive is put out the product to meet a hard deadline, not put out a quality, accurate product and let the deadline slip. IMNOHO, very poor form. Sad thing is, there are SO many companies that use this model. Too bad.

[AkumaMax]

delete delete delete

[AkumaMax]

hmm this is weird I have been using the Newest TT7 navigation with new maps. I am running NATF's 4.4 rom it has a program called GPS test. Load that up takes about 2-5min depending on programs running and how bad the weather is. When it is loaded it usually finds satellites within a matter of seconds(unless Cloudy). After it finds the satellites I minimize that program(or you can close it), I keep it this way just in case my TT GPS software cannot keep a trace on the satellites. I have my TT options set to the stock Built in GPS receiver and have very little problems with this setup. Before The Rom I used NEMA GPS setup and baud rate at stock( i think 4800). Pretty good results didn't ever loose a signal but my major test is Lower whacker drive downtown. I have my TomTom 920T that even looses signal down there but uses an EPT system to go off my speed.

[coa00kt]

Dear Sirs or Madams

The GPSone Solution is not a GPS classic Chip (Unfortunately). Although it is NMEA 0183 Compliant. Which means : it works at Baud Rate :4800, Update Rate :1 Hz (1sec), Data Bits:8, Parity :None, Stop Bits:1 and Handshake :None.

If u check with Htc Nadavi GpsTool u will see that the chip sends:

$GPGSV,3,1,09,03,63,307,23,06,77,314,25,16,35,208, 21,18,48,052,19*74
$GPGSV,3,2,09,19,30,310,18,21,29,066,24,22,78,133, 22,14,14,150,*75
$GPGSV,3,3,09,15,02,032,*47
$GPGGA,182052.2,3723.449320,N,02453.208294,E,1,07, 1.3,50.9,M,0,M, ,*4D
$GPVTG,nan,T,,M,0.0,N,0.0,K,A*42
$GPRMC,182052.2,A,3723.449320,N,02453.208294,E,0.0 ,,300908,,,A*44
$GPGSA,A,3,03,06,16,18,19,21,22,,,,,,2.3,1.3,1.9*3 9
$PSTIS,*61

This are 8 NMEA sentences. Refering to (http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm), each line of NMEA data can reach 82 characters. Therefore at 4800 where the GPSone can manage should only send 480 characters (Which is Maximum 5 lines of NMEA).

In order to achieve that there is only one way :

GPSgate: http://franson.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4236

Since then I managed to have 5 lines of NMEA (MC,SA,SV)trasmitted to my GPS Software and I am experiencing very good navigation, without lag (only height is missing).

Sincerelly Yours
Konstantinos Tsatsos

[NLS]

Kosta it is not necessary to have the baud set at 4800. This chip (although still 1Hz) can handle much faster baud. I have all my programs set to 115200 (except those that can't, where I drop to 57600 or 38400).

[nnandan]

HI I am a new user of Windows Mobile. Plus the first HTC Touch pro. It was so difficult finding the GPS does not work and even though O2 patch installed it didn't work. Fianlaly your step A resolved the issue. Again modified TCPMP was a great tool from you guys to work on windows mobile 6.1. Deeply thankfull.

Regards,
Nikesh

[ennepi]

I actually have the Off. ROM 5.05 and 1.12.25.19 Off. Radio.
What do you think are the best GPS settings?
In external GPS COM 4 and Baud 115.200?
And what about the settings directly in the programs (TTN, iGO8)?
Com 4 and 115.200?
Thanks

[paypalbid]

I actually have the Off. ROM 5.05 and 1.12.25.19 Off. Radio.
What do you think are the best GPS settings?
In external GPS COM 4 and Baud 115.200?
And what about the settings directly in the programs (TTN, iGO8)?
Com 4 and 115.200?
Thanks

if you use TomTom go to settings/configure GPS/Other NMEA GPS REceiver/38400 baud rate
COM4

[basmareck]

hi, i tried to do the process, but i did not locate the "HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\" on my registry

[Matthes42]

if you don´t have the key you can create it

hi, i tried to do the process, but i did not locate the "HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver\" on my registry

[pilgrim011]

Kosta it is not necessary to have the baud set at 4800. This chip (although still 1Hz) can handle much faster baud. I have all my programs set to 115200 (except those that can't, where I drop to 57600 or 38400).

if you use TomTom go to settings/configure GPS/Other NMEA GPS REceiver/38400 baud rate
COM4
The baud rate is the theoretical maximum data transfer rate, so the rate should be set to the highest expected transfer. For GPS this is totally irrelevant, as the actual data stream from the satellites is less than 1000 baud. As such as 4800 setting still gives a 400% headroom.

[Pudl]

Hello together,

I don't know if this is the right threat to post this, but I think this is important for the test with GPS settings und I-Go.
I have the following setting:
ROM: Update from HTC 5.05.407.1 GER
Radio: 1.11.25.01
I-Go8: 8.3.2.64873
I tried to improve my GPS (position lag of about 1,5s and speed lag of about 2,5s) with the settings in the following threat:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=496800
When I start I-Go after doing the settings the first time, evrerything is ok. I don't think, that they improved my GPS dramaticaly but I works even with A-GPS enabled but when I close I-Go and start it again then I get a fast GPS fix indeed but after about 5s my fix is lost and comes again some seconds later. This goes on until I disable A-GPS.
In another forum I found the information, that I-Go doesnt support A-GPS at all.
But the more important thing I assume is that I-Go is changing something in the GPS settings or driver when you close it. (I checked the settings I made by hand after closing I-Go and they are still present)
Has anyone made the same experiences?

Greetings Pudl

[Sleuth255]

There's an aGPS bug in the ROM you're using that causes that condition. Disabling aGPS as you have done was the only way we uncovered to work around the issue.

[Pudl]

Thanks Sleuth255 for this information.

Greetings Pudl

[slapdaddy]

Just wanted to say thankyou for all of the people in this thread who have contributed to the problem, especially Sleuth. I actually e-mailed HTC tech support and this is the response i got...which I think is just a standard "Oh sorry, too bad" type of response..

"We understand it is important for your device to function as expected. The GPS applications you have mentioned are considered third party. Unfortunately, HTC cannot support any third party software because it can have various effects on the device. We would suggest a hard reset on the device. Doing a hard reset will delete all data and personal settings on the device, so we suggest saving any information you do not wish to lose. To do a hard reset, you would need to go to Start > Settings > System Tab > Clear Storage. After completing the hard reset, we would suggest using the default or carrier specific GPS software. If the issue persists, you would need to contact your carrier for a replacement or send the device in for repair. HTC Repair’s number is 1-888-617-1113. The hours of operation for HTC Repair is Monday through Friday 8 AM – 8 PM EST. We apologize for any inconveniences you may have experienced. "

The applications I mentioned are Garmin Mobile XT and TomTom. Ugh, after reading that I have zero hope that they'll acknowledge any sort of bad coding in the Radio or drivers for the GPS...GPS is GPS right? Shouldn't one GPS program work like another? If both programs are lagging then there has to be something wrong with the phone...it just seems they don't want to deal with it, which is sad.

My Fuze is lagging and I guess the more information here the better...but I have a HT851 serial along with the latest stock AT&T ROM and Radio loaded...lag lag lag...most annoying problem I've ever had with a phone lol.

Thanks again to you all for all of your help. :D

[tuxianer]

What are the best Settings to keep the lag minimal. I have a Diamond.

[pilgrim011]

If you have a Radio ROM up to date, the default settings are the best. You should only change the following:

With AdvancedConfig:
1. disable A-GPS
2. disable GPS logging
3. logfile name must be empty
4. old logfile name must be empty
5. maximum size of logfile must be 0

There are some ways to decrease the lag, but with most of them, your GPS will become less reliable, with "GPS signal lost" warnings more often than with the default settings.

[linux4ever1]

Hello ppl,
I'm have been using TomTom Navigator 7.910.9185 for sometime now....with obvious lag problems. After applying the tweaks floating around on xda, I was able to have the GPS lock on within 2 mins.
Recently, I tried going back and tweaking the setting hoping to have quicker lock on satellites. Along with the registry keys mentioned in the first post I changed a few other keys such as HKLM\Driver\BuiltIn\GPSID\Order and possibly a few other that I don't remember (I know I should've backed up the registry or wrote down the default values...but I didn't) and now TomTom is not even working. The program launches fine but after a few seconds the start bar flashes at the top and the whole phone locks up and I have to reset the phone.
I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling TomTom in hopes it would work, but no luck. I've tried changing the registry values to their default values as listed in the first post...still no luck.
Has anyone come across this? Anyone know any solution to get my GPS working again? Anything to restore all default registry values for the GPS for HTC Touch Pro? I don't want to have to hard reset the phone as I have but much stuff installed, although that might allow me to install WM6.5 :)
Anyways, hoping to see a solution...really NEED the GPS working!!!

Thanks!


PS My phone also locks when I enable GPS in Google Maps...so there is nothing wrong with the program...something wrong with the GPS registry settings!


All is working fine now....flashed a new radio :)

[tuxianer]

If you have a Radio ROM up to date, the default settings are the best. You should only change the following:

With AdvancedConfig:
1. disable A-GPS
2. disable GPS logging
3. logfile name must be empty
4. old logfile name must be empty
5. maximum size of logfile must be 0

There are some ways to decrease the lag, but with most of them, your GPS will become less reliable, with "GPS signal lost" warnings more often than with the default settings.

is v1.09.25.23 up to date enough?

and I can't find GPS logging in Advanced Config 3.3

and what is the default value for: RetryWaitOnError

[pilgrim011]

is v1.09.25.23 up to date enough?

and I can't find GPS logging in Advanced Config 3.3

and what is the default value for: RetryWaitOnErrorI don't know anything about Diamond radios, because I own Raphael, but if that radio is relatively new, it should be ok.

RetryWaitOnError = 3. You can find GPS logging in HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver.

[tuxianer]

in HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver i have:

CurrentLogFile (clear)
IsEnabled (1)
OldLogFile (clear)

Is "Is enabled" to Enable Loggin or to enable GPS?

[cbreze]

While I fully enjoy the newest 6.5 roms (some of which were totally awesome)I decided I needed to have a more dependable device as in "stability" so I downgraded or upgraded depending on how you look at it to wm 6.1 with the latest htc rom(5.05.401.1) and radio(1.14.25.05) I now am happy to be back in stability land with a side benefit I was only hoping for, but is a reality. My gps now locks in seconds. I was trying this rom before and did not get these results so I must attribute it to the latest radio v. I'm using google maps and almost fell off my chair when inside my house I got a lock while the map screen was still configuring. Awesome is all I can say. The stability of this rom is great and now this. I'm stickin' with what works.:cool:

[itm]

Has anyone managed to get their hands on a Touch Pro2 yet to see if the same lag problem persists with TomTom?

[pilgrim011]

in HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\GPS Intermediate Driver i have:

CurrentLogFile (clear)
IsEnabled (1)
OldLogFile (clear)

Is "Is enabled" to Enable Loggin or to enable GPS?
Registry is ok, you don't have to change anything. "Is enabled" is to enable GPS logging, not GPS itself.