Any atheists in here?

[rhov23]

As I stumbled upon the brotherhood of muslims in this thread, I got a little jealous of the unity they and other religious groups sometimes possess.

Since we atheists aren't a homogeneous group that have any words to follow, except maybe science and the neverending falsification-process of it, I would like to greet all those out there that only believe in the world as you sense it, and the physics behind it.

We don't have any books to follow, so here are 10 good old quotes for you: :)


1. “The civilized man has a moral obligation to be skeptical. . . . Any man who for one moment abandons or suspends the questioning spirit has for that moment betrayed humanity.” –Bergen Evens

2. The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. -Delos B. McKown

3. Faith means not wanting to know what is true. -Friedrich Nietzsche

4. What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -Christopher Hitchens

5. Piety is implanted in human nature; it is deemed a sure refuge. To the growing child, that which falls from his elders' lips is a lesson that abides with him all his life. Monks in their cloisters and devotees in the mosques accept their creed just as a story is handed down from him who tells it, without distinguishing between a true interpreter and a false. If one of these had found his kin among the Magians, or among the Sabians, he would have declared himself a Magian, or among the Sabians he would have become nearly or quite like them. -Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri 973-1057

6. The doubter is a true man of science; he doubts only himself and his interpretations, but he believes in science. -Claude Bernard

7. I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain

8. A believer states everything must have a creator but fail to say how he was created. -Anonymous

9. The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles? -John Adams 2nd president of the USA

10. But the great tragedy of Science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact - which is so constantly being enacted under the eyes of philosophers... -T.H. Huxley


Peace.

[fzzyrn]

i consider "atheist" to be one who is not a believer in any of the religious movements out there. It's very possible for them to believe in a god, just not necessarily the god that anybody else subscribes to.

I fall into that category. I believe that the sun gives everything on earth life. Which it does, in one way or another.

And therefore i am cool. Yeah......

[dgaud007]

Agnostic?
I agree with Mike, partially, since in my humble and uninformed opinion the primary need for religion has always been fear of pain and death. I will disgree with Mike on the net benefit of religion, specially in the 21st century...

Here's another quote:
"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." Richard Feynman

and another by a well known philosopher:
"Your're asking me who to follow. You're asking me who is right. Don't ask me. I don't know!" O. Osbourne

[rhov23]

All of us have faith in some form or other. An atheist scientist has faith that science will produce all the answers (though there is no proof of that). In fact many scientists acknowledge that most theories (even once proven) are only true until another theory come along to show the first one wasn't quite right or did not apply in all situations.

Given virtually every civilisation that has ever existed has had some deity or other then scientifically speaking there must be a human need to have "faith". Furthermore, given nature preserves through the generations, only those things that aid survival, then faith must have a net benefit to survival rather as opposed to not having "faith".

Perhaps it is that humans, because they can think ahead, have a need to know that there is some overall purpose/reason for things. In other words that life is not just some purely accidental /random fluke of nature. Even if "faith" is a delusion therefore, it nevertheless prevents the alternative which would be a belief in the utter pointlessness of everything.

Mike


PS. This thread will only last as long as there is no discussion of specific religions. We all realise (or should do!) the sensitivities involved if we get into commenting on or arguing about peoples religious beliefs. For as long as there is respect perhaps there can be an academic chat. It may be that another Mod will close this thread as a religious debate and not appropriate even in off-topic.

Thank you for a thoughtful response. :) I quite enjoyed reading it. As a follower of the scientific method, I can assure you that we will never find all the answers. Because we are so limited.


The last part (PS.->) I can somewhat agree with, but for peace sake only.

What religious person can claim rights over the religion they are part of? I find that offensive. (EDIT: in general life)

I grew up with a religion that I feel I have all the right to say and mean anything about. It's part of me, even though I don't believe in it.

I understand that there is a time and place for everything :)

[surur]

I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.

If there are any advantages they are incidental.

Surur

[rhov23]

I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.

If there are any advantages they are incidental.

Surur

The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.

Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.

But I believe that humans are a parasite on the earth. And to be a parasite is not just a negative thing. We are what we are. All events has made us this way, and more will make us change or dissappear in time.

[surur]

The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.

Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.

But I also believe that humans are a parasite on the earth (hehe)

Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.

Surur

[rhov23]

Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.

Surur

I didn't say it was only tied to religion. Religion is made by people, and morals/ethics are therefor made by people. Religion is a way to get a social structure, control the masses, make them believe and behave.

Let's have a quote:

Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist :P

[rhov23]

Well at one level I can agree. If by religion we mean that thing that is used as a reason to fight wars, or religion used by governments to control people.

However I don't agree if we mean religion as the thing that is about wanting to know the answers, particularly to the "big" questions. Or religion as the thing that gives comfort in times of stress etc.

That seems to me the biggest problem in talking about such matters. We would have to spend hours defining what bit or slant on religion we are taliking about.

I actually quite like fzzyrn's concept of believing in a God which is not necessarily the same as any other person believes in and not part of any mainstream religion. You see often I think when you hear scientists talking about the big unknowns and then hear religious leaders talking about the meaning of God it is quite easy to detect a lot of similar thinking between the two. Just for example religious people tend to talk about religion giving people generally and as individuals "a purpose". Just the other day I heard a scientist at the Hadron Collider talking about how discovery of fundamental particles would help us to see "the purpose" of life.

The quest it seems to me is the same and even the language can be the same. History actually shows that religions have lead the way in scientific research. It is only in recent times that science and religion have been seen as conflicting rather than opposite sides of the same coin.

Mike

I agree with you, but not on the last part.

The large religions, change when they must, not when they should. And only when it comes to hard facts, like the earth rotates around the sun etc.

The fact is that religion changes only for selfpreservation, and not by logic. And what monster do we get then?

[psionandy]

Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist :P

There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.

The same is true of religion.

[rhov23]

There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.

The same is true of religion.

Druggie! :P

Just kidding. Good point, but I never said that I was for a ban. I just want to tell those that are smart enough, that everything around us is connected.

You can't run cars on prayer. Or will someone prove me wrong?

[Baronic]

can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol

[rhov23]

can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol

Hi, welcome. You are now ready to be brainwashed. Please follow my directions closely, and send me $100. :eek: :D

No, really. If you don't send money you will die from old age!

[bbobeckyj]

Some quotes I've picked up. Sorry I have previously deleted most of the speakers/writers names-

Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.^Voltaire

But that a camel-merchant should stir up insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that he talks with the angel Gabriel; that he boasts of having been carried to heaven, where he received in part this unintelligible book, each page of which makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, he delivers his country to iron and flame; that he cuts the throats of fathers and kidnaps daughters; that he gives to the defeated the choice of his religion or death: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Turk, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him.

If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor

To pray to God is to flatter oneself that with words one can alter nature.

It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence.

God created sex. Priests created marriage.

God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.

All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God.

Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.

If the ignorance of nature gave birth to Gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.

If we look back at the begining we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them; and that custom, respect and tyranny support them, in order to make the blindness of man serve their own interest.

Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.^Voltaire

They condemn what they do not understand.

The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world that God exists.

The best defense against logic is ignorance.

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.

All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.

I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.

. . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

Reason is the antonym of Religion

Reason should be destroyed in all Christians^Martin Luther

Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived^Oscar Wilde

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unitelligible propositions.

God "fashioned hell for the inquisitive"^St Augustine

Ideas must be distinct before reason can be acted upon them.^Thomas Jefferson

The only victimless crime is blasphemy

The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about

If there were no God, there would be no Atheists.

[rico002]

dane cook anyone....
the bible is going to get printed on you!!!!!!!!

[MAZAR SCIENTIST]

u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading :):)

[bbobeckyj]

u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading :):)

No God = No Devil
No Supernatural Defender = No Supernatural Attacker

[rhov23]

u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading :):)


The Prophets, too, among us come to teach,
Are one with those who from the pulpit preach;
They pray, and slay, and pass away, and yet
Our ills are as the pebbles on the beach.
- Al-Ma'arri, أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري

I hope you get well soon.