Buyer Beware: CorePlayer

[k9tim]

After many messages and interaction with CoreCodec, I have given up.
Coreplayer on the Fuze, TP, Diamond, and Touch HD from all accounts absolutely sucks.

I have tried to get CoreCodec personnel to discuss when a fix is coming for newer devices. He dances around the topic like Fred Astaire. He won't admit that CorePlayer does not perform as advertised and expected for these newer MSM72## devices, yet CoreCodec is MORE THAN WILLING to take the money of people just discovering their software after purchasing their new HTC devices.

There have been forum bans, user deletes, message deletes, and more on their forums. People just want to know why they are getting hosed and when it might stop. There have even been postings from CoreCodec personnel about advances and the like for freakin Sony PlayStation 2's in response to our questions about our mobile devices.

Riiiiiiiight.........

SO- I say this:

Diamond, Raphael, and HD users BEWARE. Do Not spend your money on Coreplayer until we have proof version 2.0 works becaus as of now- Windows Media Player is kicking the crap out of CorePlayer when you encode your videos with these settings (Courtesy of Sketchy in the Diamond Forum):

Video Format: MPEG-4 AVC (saves as .mp4)
Resolution: 640x360 (still maintaining the original 16:9 AR)
Video bitrate: 1000 kbps
frame rate: 29.97 fps (progressive)
Audio format: AAC
Audio bitrate: 96 kbps, 48kHz sample rate


To prove it, I have placed this video on YouTube. Crank up the volume as the Fuze's speaker was abt 3 feet under my camcorder. You can clearly see how CorePlayer at this time is NOT worth your $$ (I should say they are stating that the new version that will fix these problems will be additional $$ if you buy their product now).

Here is the video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lf4xteVs8M

I should state I am NOT a new purchaser of CP. Had it since my Wizard. I am just pissed they are not addressing customer concerns nor answering questions when we ask. We just want decent playback.
If it takes a while, fine. Just be honest.


**MODS> I know sticking this probably isnt too cool, but people are getting screwed. Please consider this. Tnx.

[k9tim]

And I've been deleted from the user base on their forums.. Heh!

:D

[mindfrost82]

Video Format: MPEG-4 AVC (saves as .mp4)
Resolution: 640x360 (still maintaining the original 16:9 AR)
Video bitrate: 1000 kbps
frame rate: 29.97 fps (progressive)
Audio format: AAC
Audio bitrate: 96 kbps, 48kHz sample rate

Out of curiosity, what apps do you use to convert videos to that format?

[k9tim]

Use Super!

linky: http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

[Goatmaster]

Man they must have deleted a lot of stuff in their forums because the threads are all wishmaster replying to non existent posts lol. I am curious why bother with CP if WMP is doing such a good job?

BTW I remember CP being slow to get the video support on the Athena, actually it may never have fully supported the hardware on that device...

[k9tim]

Man they must have deleted a lot of stuff in their forums because the threads are all wishmaster replying to non existent posts lol. I am curious why bother with CP if WMP is doing such a good job?

BTW I remember CP being slow to get the video support on the Athena, actually it may never have fully supported the hardware on that device...


It is sad actually. There were questions posted that were very simple to answer yet CoreCodec refused to do so.

I took screenshots of several of my posts knowing that they would get deleted. I'll post them tomorrow- I'm pretty wiped out from all the holiday stuff today.

All in all, I'm blown away at how little regard they have for their customer.

They have a pretty ignorant business model. I mean seriously- they portray their mobile player as the end all in the industry, yet they dont offer a trial period (oh no! people might figure out they aren't delivering what they promise depending on device) and they arent willing to let people know when they might be competitive with current apps that are... get ready for this...


INCLUDED IN THE WINDOWS MOBILE PACKAGE!!!!!

Wow!

Bad form, CoreCodec..... Bad Form!

[mrvanx]

I dont understand this thread tbh, ive been using coreplayer very happily since i got my raphael....a WIDE variety of video formats and they all play nicely....ive gotta ask are you still running a stock os??

[Hamstah]

I've also been running coreplayer since I got my Touch Pro, and for almost all videos I've tried (mostly DivX and XviD), it has performed remarkably well - I got coreplayer because WMP can't play (to my knowledge) videos requiring codecs like XviD and DivX, and most of the videos I watch are in those formats. I also tried DivX's mobile software, and that performed really poorly.

I'm always willing to try something new, so I will try converting some videos for WMP, but as far as I can tell, CP isn't giving me much of an issue at all.

[dr g]

The OP's point is well-taken, especially since Coreplayer doesn't have a trial ... but a little bit of due diligence would keep most people safe. TCPMP is kinda-sorta a trial ... the issue is Coreplayer is not optimized for the Raphael graphics acceleration hardware.

I do hope they manage to do it, then I'd purchase it.

[VaThInK]

Coreplayer is only good for XviD and DivX videos. When it comes to H.264 or its variants it sucks really bad. Only capable of playing half of the frames on average ( about 50% drops more or less). This is all based on my testing so far.

[tweker]

I am running v1.2.5 build 4506 for arm and the only issue I have is with flac files (no surprise). Even with a 500mhz cpu my phone has moments of complete silence as it tries to unfurl 30+mb songs.

[NetRipper]

I'm also running CorePlayer just fine. No problems whatsoever, and it outperforms WMP. I haven't tried the exact settings from your first post, but the normal desktop xvids work perfectly without having to transcode to a specific format for my raphael.

Make sure Qtv is enabled in Coreplayer (menu -> tools -> preferences -> select page -> qtv display -> tytn ii driver mode).

Btw, I'm not running stock ROM anymore. Maybe that makes a difference too.

[k9tim]

I'm also running CorePlayer just fine. No problems whatsoever, and it outperforms WMP. I haven't tried the exact settings from your first post, but the normal desktop xvids work perfectly without having to transcode to a specific format for my raphael.

Make sure Qtv is enabled in Coreplayer (menu -> tools -> preferences -> select page -> qtv display -> tytn ii driver mode).

Btw, I'm not running stock ROM anymore. Maybe that makes a difference too.


No, I m still running the stock rom. At some point I'm sure I'll reflash, but I sure as hell am not going to because CP isnt up to the task of playing an mp4.
If you watch that video, you will see the various settings I used in CP and the result.
Maybe it is a Fuze issue (doubt it) but most of my vids are mp4 h264 (well they are now anyway) and CP just cant handle it.

It's not just my Fuze. Touch HD users are supposedly experiencing the same issue as are some Diamond owners.

The trick is that you wont see the complaints on the CoreCodec forums because posts are being deleted and people banned for "CorePlayer bashing".

I think that video speaks for itself.

Like VaThInk said: "Coreplayer is only good for XviD and DivX videos. When it comes to H.264 or its variants it sucks really bad. Only capable of playing half of the frames on average ( about 50% drops more or less). This is all based on my testing so far. "

Thats exactly what you are seeing in the video.

Fine- but if you are going to sell a app to someone with no trial then it better deliver. When it doesn't, then don't get pissed when those people want to know when it might.
Tap dancing around release dates for upgrades and then not being up front whether the upgrade is going to do anything (AFTER YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT-AGAIN!) to remedy a problem is simply not cool.

[k9tim]

The OP's point is well-taken, especially since Coreplayer doesn't have a trial ... but a little bit of due diligence would keep most people safe. TCPMP is kinda-sorta a trial ... the issue is Coreplayer is not optimized for the Raphael graphics acceleration hardware.

I do hope they manage to do it, then I'd purchase it.


And I said exactly that on their forum- if it could deliver on the formats I use with an upgrade, I would gladly purchase the upgrade.

Don't get me wrong people- I did NOT buy CP for my Fuze. Had it since my wizard but my point is they are letting people purchase it then when they find out it is truly not doing what they say it will on these newer devices they say you will be able to BUY an upgrade soon.

When? They won't say. Will it be in the 1.30 upgrade? Won't Say.
2.0? Probably but won't say for sure.

The ONLY thing they WILL say for sure is that you will have to PAY all over again- thus the title of the thread: Buyer Beware.

[y2whisper]

slight update:
http://www.fuzemobility.com/?p=961

yeah sucks that it is getting hammered by wmp but they are working on it and were the ones that gave us kaiser users the first bit of hope when it came to the vid driver issues there.

[Brendo]

i have played files of the type you mentioned (although the only setting different is i use 1200kbps) and they run fine on my touch pro :)
ive used coreplayer for ages now and never use wmp, so cant comment on which is better
coreplayer has a few bugs (esp tv out) and support for graphics isnt that good (htc fault) so i cant wait for a new release with these issues fixed

[Bimboy]

I had similar issues with H.264 vodcasts and Coreplayer. I thought I would have to reencode them, or subscribe to a different feed, but I happened to select one in WMP on the Fuze, and was very surprised to see it worked there, since it would not play better than 1-3fps on Coreplayer.

[KD8DNS]

I love coreplayer and have no problems whatsoever, it is way better than wmp.

[nik3r]

If you have problems with CorePlayer try different ROM or at least different video drivers. Try to put this to \windows
http://rapidshare.com/files/168326876/d3dm_ati.rar
I am playing full DivX DVD RIPs on my Raphael (ca. 800MB per movie) and it runs flawlessly even during fast actions.

[k9tim]

Hey folks, I'm curious- Would it be fair to say that a lot of us (myself included) originally purchased CorePlayer because of the wealth of different formats it would play?

In other words letting us use one player to play our multimedia so we didnt have to take the time to re-encode the files?

[Bimboy]

I love coreplayer and have no problems whatsoever, it is way better than wmp.


I agree that for a lot of things it is better. Not for H.264/MP4's tho. I was hoping it would make it so I didn't need any other video playback software. I just think it's a bit of a bummer that I have to think "what was that encoded in?" before I choose to play a video.

Thanks nik3r, but I have those drivers installed already, and it's behaved this way on all ROMs I've flashed on my Fuze.

[KD8DNS]

Hey folks, I'm curious- Would it be fair to say that a lot of us (myself included) originally purchased CorePlayer because of the wealth of different formats it would play?

In other words letting us use one player to play our multimedia so we didnt have to take the time to re-encode the files?

Yes, very fair to say. I bought mine back when I had my Tilt. Now I have it on my fuze. and im very happy. I realize it will never stack up to my Sharp LCD hi def at home. But im satisfied with my purchase of core.

[NetRipper]

Hey folks, I'm curious- Would it be fair to say that a lot of us (myself included) originally purchased CorePlayer because of the wealth of different formats it would play?

In other words letting us use one player to play our multimedia so we didnt have to take the time to re-encode the files?
I think there's a mixup ;)

People that are having trouble are having trouble with the MP4/H264 file format. People (including myself) that were saying not to have a problem with coreplayer, are either using DivX or XviD. It should be noted the OP was talking about the problem with H264.

Anyway that thread (http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1451&p=7728&hilit=fuze#p7728) y2whisper referred to earlier seems to admit that there's a problem in Coreplayer. I.e. Corecodec is admitting the problem and seem to be willing to update it in the future. Reading from the text it seems 'Betaboy' is one of the developers.

As to their policy to remove threads and posts from their forum, I can understand a bit. The problem is probably described somewhere and they just remove all threads that are duplicates of the one thread they want to keep. I'd want to keep my forum a bit clean from duplicates as well - it emphasizes one problematic part of the software to be blown out of proportions.

Regarding their purchase policy, well, it's something you agreed with when you bought the software. You only get updates for free when the major version does not change (1.2 -> 1.3 is free, 1.3 -> 2.0 is not). When you buy the software, there's a 30 day full refund policy, which is like a trial period.

I can see the point of this thread - to warn people that H264 is not properly supported yet. However, I don't see a point bashing Corecodec over it. I bet they're just doing their best. And they also need to make money to keep the software alive. The license to make Qtv natively supported into Coreplayer must cost them money as well. Who knows how much. :)

[Bimboy]

Well said, NetRipper. Very factual.

For me, I was hoping that with a 16gb card, I would not need an ipod to watch my favorite video podcasts. Coreplayer does not handle those remotely well though. WMP does an OK job though. It does play almost everything else really well though.

[Blitz49]

I have the same problems with H264 only, but other formats run fine. k9tim how did you get mp4 to run on media player? Could media player support avi? How can I get H264 to run smoothly as of now?

Thanks

[k9tim]

I think there's a mixup ;)

People that are having trouble are having trouble with the MP4/H264 file format. People (including myself) that were saying not to have a problem with coreplayer, are either using DivX or XviD. It should be noted the OP was talking about the problem with H264.

Anyway that thread (http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1451&p=7728&hilit=fuze#p7728) y2whisper referred to earlier seems to admit that there's a problem in Coreplayer. I.e. Corecodec is admitting the problem and seem to be willing to update it in the future. Reading from the text it seems 'Betaboy' is one of the developers.

As to their policy to remove threads and posts from their forum, I can understand a bit. The problem is probably described somewhere and they just remove all threads that are duplicates of the one thread they want to keep. I'd want to keep my forum a bit clean from duplicates as well - it emphasizes one problematic part of the software to be blown out of proportions.

Regarding their purchase policy, well, it's something you agreed with when you bought the software. You only get updates for free when the major version does not change (1.2 -> 1.3 is free, 1.3 -> 2.0 is not). When you buy the software, there's a 30 day full refund policy, which is like a trial period.

I can see the point of this thread - to warn people that H264 is not properly supported yet. However, I don't see a point bashing Corecodec over it. I bet they're just doing their best. And they also need to make money to keep the software alive. The license to make Qtv natively supported into Coreplayer must cost them money as well. Who knows how much. :)


THANK YOU! It was never about Divx/Xvid. Yes, my CP plays those pretty well also. It was about mp4's!

Oh and about the updates- BetaBoy stated that an update to 1.3 would cost us. IOW, 1.26, 1.27, 1.28 would be part of the 1.2 series. He was saying that 1.3 would have a discounted fee associated with it but people who had purchased 1.25 in "XX" number of days would get it free. Here is a copy n paste quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are still working on the details... all current 1.x users will be entitled to an upgrade discount, while user that have made purchases over the past xx days will get the upgrade for free.

XX is still to be determined.

Also from our internal discussions today... we are going to release 1.3 after all. More info to follow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the thread:
http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60

SO:

Bob buys a Touch HD. Same day buys Coreplayer 1.25.
Bob notices his mp4's look like crap. Bob bitches.
Bob is told 1.3 may fix the problem but there is no firm commitment on that.
Bob is told 1.3 will cost him since he didnt buy within "XX" days.
1.3 comes out, Bob pays AGAIN if he doesnt fall in the unpublished "XX" days and finds out the problem isnt fixed.
Bob waits till 2.0 in like March (maybe) to fully support QTv and Bob has to PAY YET AGAIN!.

Go read the threads people. I'm not making this crap up.

It's all about having ONE media player to play your formats so you dont have to spend hours re-encoding things. Telling people they will have to wait for a new version, pay again, but possibly not have the problem fixed is crazy.

Whats even crazier is saying two versions down the road will fix things BUT you will have to pay a THIRD time!!!

See what I'm sayin?

BTW, that same thread is where BetaBoy avoids answering questions by touting their new advances in playback on PS2's. Yes- that PS2. I grabbed a screenshot just incase posts get deleted again. My posts are reflected in some quotes as user 'Zen'.....

@ Netripper: They aren't removing dupe postings. They are removing posts that are critical of them. Some were mine. I was also banned when my posts were deleted.

[k9tim]

I have the same problems with H264 only, but other formats run fine. k9tim how did you get mp4 to run on media player? Could media player support avi? How can I get H264 to run smoothly as of now?

Thanks


Go to this thread in the Diamond forums:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=413986

This will get ya going :) Enjoy!

[Bimboy]

Go to this thread in the Diamond forums:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=413986

This will get ya going :) Enjoy!

Tim, cross posting threads to each other in different forums... :rolleyes:

[k9tim]

Tim, cross posting threads to each other in different forums... :rolleyes:

Exactly right sir, good call. Post in Diamond forum edited. Not necessary.

Thank you :)

[beta_boy]

k9tim... Here are the facts:

- You were banned for breaking the forum rules and for out right 'bashing'... not once but several times in the forums and by private PM as well.
- We have an awesome community at CoreCodec and welcome constructive criticism without it, CorePlayer would not be half as good as it is now. However outright bashing and posting in a manner that is not professional or adds nothing of value is dealt with according to any forum rules (including XDA here as well). Our rules are posted for all to read here: http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18
- Are there any other media players that have tried to support QTv besides us with CorePlayer? Answer, No.
- Trying to play 'normal' ie; not 1000kb+ bitrated video and not matching the dar/par of the device will ALWAYS skip without hardware acceleration no matter how good your performance is, CorePlayer included.
- CoreAVC our H.264 video decoder is the most efficient software decoder on mobile or desktop devices and is being used by major companies; Joost, SanDisk, Elgato, etc.... no other H.264 decoder comes close to its performance for AVC/AVCHD playback.. Google it or ask me to send you some links to those facts.
- We support 'some' QTv chips, but not all of them.
- CorePlayer's QTv support is limited to Overlay only
- We are working on several methods of playback utilizing the FULL capabilities of QTv in a future release.
- We have not 'officially' announced CorePlayer 2.0 but we have started to discuss it on the CoreCodec forums and the differences on what maybe 1.x Vs. 2.x... So k9tim is out of line stating you'll have to pay for it all over again.
- Also to justify a 2.0 release for k9tim.... go read our changelogs: http://coreplayer.com/content/view/23/1/ we add to each release what others do in new 'higher' milestone versions.

As far as purchases....we have always offered a 'no question' money back refund for anyone that has purchased CP and is not happy, see it here: http://www.corecodec.com/products/corecodec-inc-refund-policy.html

I also would like to take the time to thank those who have supported us here at XDA.... you guys know the real truth in performance from our work with TCPMP to CorePlayer now.

[k9tim]

k9tim... Here are the facts:

- You were banned for breaking the forum rules and for out right 'bashing'... not once but several times in the forums and by private PM as well.
- We have an awesome community at CoreCodec and welcome constructive criticism without it, CorePlayer would not be half as good as it is now. However outright bashing and posting in a manner that is not professional or adds nothing of value is dealt with according to any forum rules (including XDA here as well). Our rules are posted for all to read here: http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18
- Are there any other media players that have tried to support QTv besides us with CorePlayer? Answer, No.
- Trying to play 'normal' ie; not 1000kb+ bitrated video and not matching the dar/par of the device will ALWAYS skip without hardware acceleration no matter how good your performance is, CorePlayer included.
- CoreAVC our H.264 video decoder is the most efficient software decoder on mobile or desktop devices and is being used by major companies; Joost, SanDisk, Elgato, etc.... no other H.264 decoder comes close to its performance for AVC/AVCHD playback.. Google it or ask me to send you some links to those facts.
- We support 'some' QTv chips, but not all of them.
- CorePlayer's QTv support is limited to Overlay only
- We are working on several methods of playback utilizing the FULL capabilities of QTv in a future release.
- We have not 'officially' announced CorePlayer 2.0 but we have started to discuss it on the CoreCodec forums and the differences on what maybe 1.x Vs. 2.x... So k9tim is out of line stating you'll have to pay for it all over again.
- Also to justify a 2.0 release for k9tim.... go read our changelogs: http://coreplayer.com/content/view/23/1/ we add to each release what others do in new 'higher' milestone versions.

As far as purchases....we have always offered a 'no question' money back refund for anyone that has purchased CP and is not happy, see it here: http://www.corecodec.com/products/corecodec-inc-refund-policy.html

I also would like to take the time to thank those who have supported us here at XDA.... you guys know the real truth in performance from our work with TCPMP to CorePlayer now.

1. I never "bashed" your product. I asked questions, and wanted answers. I was warned once, then banned after I mentioned posting a video- that post was deleted. Good thing its on youtube like I told you it would be...
2. Your community is what you make it. As long as people don't have problems with what you promise, all is well. Otherwise......
3. Through The Rest: Here we go...

BetaBoy: HEAR ME NOW!

I LIKE YOUR PRODUCT AND I USE IT. I WILL CONTINUE TO USE IT WHEN I HAVE TO.

Here is my problem: It CAN NOT play mp4 files worth a shit! Want to debate this? PROVE IT!!!! Watch the video I told you I was going to post! Comments?

WHEN YOU CLEAN THINGS UP AND COREPLAYER CAN PLAY MP4'S I WILL BUY IT!!!! AGAIN!!!!

As far as your h.264 being the most efficient decoder available, how do you explain what myself and others are seeing vs WMP? Quit dancing around the question. Playback sucks and you know it. Read this thread. Are we all idiots?

Answer this:

Is the playback of mp4/h.264 files going to be up to speed with current WMP speeds in 1.30 or 2.0? Which version?

Of the two, if Bob the Astronaut purchased CorePlayer 1.25 eight months ago, is he going to have to pay for 1.30 to play mp4's on his new Touch HD?

If you claim increased performance in 1.30 is it overlay or hardware? If overlay, will it be up to the current WMP performance we see now?
If not, then will Bob be paying for 2.0 to get the same mp4/h.264 performance after he paid for the 1.30 "upgrade"?

You are more than content to let people with new devices buy your product while you refuse to tell them when the product will deliver on promises you have made. Which version?

As far as your claim that I'm out of line saying people will have to pay for version 2.0:
SAY IT RIGHT NOW- PEOPLE WHO PURCHASE THE UPGRADE FROM 1.25 TO 1.30 OR BUY 1.30 OUTRIGHT WITH NO PREVIOUS 1.2# PURCHASE WILL NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR VERSION 2.0!
Do it! After that, I'll be standing in line to buy! Well, that is if it can play mp4 files.



Here is where I end what I have to say. The ball is in your court, the eyes are on you:

In which version of CorePlayer will we have mp4 playback that is equal to what the STOCK, BUNDLED Windows Media Player can deliver? Is it 1.30 or 2.0? It's an easy damned question! Which one and what will someone who buys 1.25 right freakin now have to pay to get this capability?



You know what BetaBoy- this whole thread, me being banned from your forum, the other users being banned from your forum, our posts being deleted, bad press on fuzemobility.com, EVERYTHING- could have been non existant if you guys would pull your heads out and offer a trial. That way we load it up with a watermark, or limited play time for videos and say either "Wow this rocks for all my videos" or "Wow this just isnt up to snuff". At that point we either buy or walk away.
Right now CoreCodec has this elite little pipe dream going. You are of the opinion we buy your application and we get what you shove down our throats and our performance issues are ok because, hey- they ALREADY PAID!!!! Let em wait for an UPGRADE!!!

Now- you have yourself a good evening. I know I probably didnt cover everything you slammed me with in your post. I'm doing a few things at the same time here. One of them is encoding some files into mp4/h.264 files to play in WMP.

[beta_boy]

I am glad you enjoy CP and we want to make it as universal as possible... I've already stated on the CC forums that the diff between WMP and CP on your device is that HTC has added the Qualcomm directshow filters that utilize the QTv API's. But your interjections on any future release (no less a major upgrade that is not even finalized yet) I will not comment on till plans are set in stone. In response to 'overlay'. Overlay _is_ hardware acceleration and the only part we reverse engineered.

On H.264.... please take the time to read up on H.264 vs other codecs in the past and you'll see that the CPU requirements for a bit-for-bit exact codec like AVC is a magnitude more then even DivX or MPEG-2 and a major reason why companies like HTC are adding GPU or SOC's in their devices. Our end goal in CP is to be able to add as much hardware acceleration as possible and will be making announcements at both CES and 3GSM to that fact.

[k9tim]

I've said what I've had to, but I will say that your interjections on any future release no less a major upgrade that is not even finalized yet I will not comment on till plans are set in stone. In response to 'overlay'. Overlay _is_ hardware acceleration and the only part we reverse engineered.

On H.264.... please take the time to read up on H.264 vs other codecs in the past and you'll see that the CPU requirements for a bit-for-bit exact codec like AVC is a magnitude more then even DivX or MPEG-2 and a major reason why companies like HTC are adding GPU or SOC's in their devices. Our end goal in CP is to be able to add as much hardware acceleration as possible and will be making announcements at both CES and 3GSM to that fact.



I am destroying my reply to this simply to let BB's post stand for what it is. Look for answered questions (or more specifically questions not answered. like most of them).

This whole thing gets me pissed just because people are spending money on CorePlayer and not getting performance they deserve.
I am *not* one of these people. I have got what I need out of Coreplayer. I use WMP where need be.
I will wait to see if they introduce anything worth another $ from me. I feel for the folks who have new devices and buy CP expecting more.

I still don't understand why CoreCodec can not say when playback will be cleaned up for mp4 files (a lot of us use them). 1.3, 2.0 ....whenever I guess.
This whole thing is actually really sad because a few basic questions have been asked, and never been answered.

SO- mp4 people, refer to the posts in the Diamond forum and here for your optimum settings and use WMP.
DIVX/XVID folks- rock that CorePlayer.

I guess having to use multiple media players on Windows Mobile continues for the time being.........

[ppatrick]

Where can I find Coreplayer manual,
please do not tell me this thing has not an user manual cause that would be an insult....

[beta_boy]

You can find the library and usage guide at http://support.corecodec.com

[ppatrick]

Please do not insult me. Your answer is totally disrespectful.
I (as many others) need a real User manual, specially the Preference settings.
Why you guys are not providing a manual?? How can you dare to charge for a software that does not provide a manual?
Shame on you.

[beta_boy]

Nice flame.... I'll bite.

Insult? Not really the CoreCodec Forum and as I mentioned the support center (and the KB there) is there to help with any questions you may have. We answer specific function questions you may have there everyday.

As far the Preferences and menu pages... we have said since the initial 1.0 that they would be drastically changing them with each release and writing a guide to each function confuse our users and slow us down in constantly changing the names/functions (as we have done with each 1.x release)

Now with 2.x this brings a whole new way for us to handle the preferences/menu functions as they are not hard coded but are now dynamically shown within the CoreUI skin (v1.3.2 was the first release to do this). This now gives us the ability to not only code the function but the ability to write the description to our SVN backend. This is then used to write both realtime docs but also post that to our upcoming developer wiki. Docs are now being generated by something we created called CoreDOC which handles all the parsing and various doc formats, CHM, PDF, HTML, PHP.

So till 2.x is out then feel free to post your 1.x questions on our forums, support center or browse the KB.

[ppatrick]

Nice flame.... I'll bite.

Flame?? No Sir,
Complaining about the lack of professionalism showed by your company cannot be called like that.

Insult? Not really the CoreCodec Forum and as I mentioned the support center (and the KB there) is there to help with any questions you may have. We answer specific function questions you may have there everyday.
I consider your answer an insult.
You guys are not coding free software, you guys charge for your product, then please do not make fun of your customers and provide a complete user manual. No excuses, no shortcuts, no forums, no anything, JUST THE MANUAL.


As far the Preferences and menu pages... we have said since the initial 1.0 that they would be drastically changing them with each release and writing a guide to each function confuse our users and slow us down in constantly changing the names/functions (as we have done with each 1.x release)
I do not care about what you said, I just bought a product then, NO EXCUSES, the Preferences have to be explained, even if the lay-out of them changes the meaning will not. i.e. The meaning of “No backlight keepalive for video” will be always the same, then YOU EXPLAIN TO THE CUSTOMERS WHAT THIS AND THE REST OF PREFERENCES MEAN IN PLAIN ENGLISH….


Now with 2.x this brings a whole new way for us to handle the preferences/menu functions as they are not hard coded but are now dynamically shown within the CoreUI skin (v1.3.2 was the first release to do this). This now gives us the ability to not only code the function but the ability to write the description to our SVN backend. This is then used to write both realtime docs but also post that to our upcoming developer wiki. Docs are now being generated by something we created called CoreDOC which handles all the parsing and various doc formats, CHM, PDF, HTML, PHP.

Please, I’m a coder too, do not give me this… JUST WRITE AND PUBLISH THE MANUAL AND STOP HIDING THINGS LIKE A KIDS….


So till 2.x is out then feel free to post your 1.x questions on our forums, support center or browse the KB.
NO WAY, IF YOU CHARGED FOR VERSION 1.X YOU PROVIDE ITS USER MANUAL. PERIOD.
STOP making fun of people that bought your product and found the MANUAL is missing and need to look around for every single bit of info.

PUBLISH THE MANUAL NOW !

[NetRipper]

PUBLISH THE MANUAL NOW !
Lol, sigh. Consumers are getting abusive nowadays.

In my opinion, they make the software and they can decide whatever they include or exclude with that. As a consumer you can make suggestions to increase the product quality and if the company thinks it's worth it (i.e. generate more $$), they'll do it. It's all up to them though. They provide you the product, and YOU CHOSE TO BUY IT. You can't demand things. It's not for nothing that you have a trial period in which you can give the software a free spin. Although in this case there's a refund policy.

So, if you're not happy, just use the refund policy? And be a bit more kind to the people that provide you this software.

[Keystone]

Where can I find Coreplayer manual,
please do not tell me this thing has not an user manual cause that would be an insult.... :( I surmise that this was a troll for beta-boy's response.... ppatrick's following reply was likely pre-meditated train wreck to provoke.

Very sad to see the odd members here abuse commercial developers for their participation on XDA...

[ppatrick]

:( I surmise that this was a troll for beta-boy's response.... ppatrick's following reply was likely pre-meditated train wreck to provoke.

Very sad to see the odd members here abuse commercial developers for their participation on XDA...

Keystone,
you are deadly wrong, you can see my postings, I had in the past an identical problem with other company (Agephone) HIDING the user manual, and that kind of things get me really pissed.
We should stop supporting people that make the move to the commercial arena when they do not have idea how to play that game. Commercial software MEANS MANUAL, no excuses.

NO TROLLING HERE just an upset customer looking for an User Manual AGAIN...
No PRE-MEDITATED answers here either, just a similar experience in the past with other "company"....


BOTTOM LINE: Where's Coreplayer User Manual ????????????

[ppatrick]

Lol, sigh. Consumers are getting abusive nowadays.

In my opinion, they make the software and they can decide whatever they include or exclude with that. As a consumer you can make suggestions to increase the product quality and if the company thinks it's worth it (i.e. generate more $$), they'll do it. It's all up to them though. They provide you the product, and YOU CHOSE TO BUY IT. You can't demand things. It's not for nothing that you have a trial period in which you can give the software a free spin. Although in this case there's a refund policy.

So, if you're not happy, just use the refund policy? And be a bit more kind to the people that provide you this software.

Consumers are getting abusive nowadays???? What did you say???? if a customer asks for the user manual in an energetic way that means to you the customer is abusive??? what are you on my friend???

The company HAS TO PROVIDE AN USER MANUAL, or state clearly BEFORE YOU BUY that there's not manual available....
How on your mind can even suggest that a software like Coreplayer can be sold WITHOUT a Manual, please give me a break. Are you with the company????

You said Refund policy??? They are tricking people, and that cannot be solved with a refund clause. They are taking people's money without saying there's not manual. You tell me; how many times you paid for software that comes w/o manual??? I did it twice, and both companies participate actively in this forum. THAT'S NOT GOOD.

[NetRipper]

So. Demanding a manual is "energetic"? Heh. Abusive may be the wrong word, but your approach is certainly rude.

Anyway, they just indicated they're working on it for the 2.x release. So in time, you'll get what you want.

And no, I'm not with the company.

[ppatrick]

So. Demanding a manual is "energetic"? Heh. Abusive may be the wrong word, but your approach is certainly rude.

Anyway, they just indicated they're working on it for the 2.x release. So in time, you'll get what you want.

And no, I'm not with the company.

Your contribution to this topic is a joke...
If they SELL version 1.X they HAVE TO PUBLISH THE MANUAL VERSION 1.X.
PERIOD. The user manual is not a "feature" that can wait to the next upgrade...
I consider your approach completely biased; I still think you are some how with the company !

[dario69]

Keystone,
We should stop supporting people that make the move to the commercial arena when they do not have idea how to play that game. Commercial software MEANS MANUAL, no excuses.

BOTTOM LINE: Where's Coreplayer User Manual ????????????

I have to agree with ppatrick here. Maybe NetRipper's opinion of customer service is more laid back but if a company charges money for a product - a fair chunk of change these days for a mobile application - it is fair to demand something like a manual or at least imbedded Help pages within the application.

I have no idea what some of these options do in Preferences and I shouldn't have to participate in a forum to get answers. It should come with the product. I am pulling information when it should be pushed to me, the consumer. A commercial product without proper documentation deserves the criticism.

Otherwise I like the product. I used Betaplayer since the Picard days and I am still an avid Coreplayer user. Whether I like it or not it has the best format support and it taps some of the Qtv capabilities. You can't say that with other players.

[Chainfire]

Hell, my brand-new TV didn't even come with a manual, and neither did one of the last phones I got (trying to think of which one it was, though) - and these are both from A-brand multinational companies who have more employees than an average city has inhabitants.

[dario69]

Hell, my brand-new TV didn't even come with a manual, and neither did one of the last phones I got (trying to think of which one it was, though) - and these are both from A-brand multinational companies who have more employees than an average city has inhabitants.

I can't remember the last time I bought software or hardware without a manual. CD or hardcopy. On a couple occasions I had to go to a website to pull a copy down but at least the company provided a link so the process was rather quick and painless.

Again, I am focusing on the customer experience. The vendor shouldn't make the experience time consuming or drawn out. For some, it isn't a big deal, for others it is important. As a consultant I take pride in giving the customer everything they want and taking their complaints seriously. We exist because of the customer so technically the old adage "the customer is always right" is how I approach the customer and how I expect to be approached as a consumer.

[ppatrick]

I can't remember the last time I bought software or hardware without a manual. CD or hardcopy. On a couple occasions I had to go to a website to pull a copy down but at least the company provided a link so the process was rather quick and painless.

Again, I am focusing on the customer experience. The vendor shouldn't make the experience time consuming or drawn out. For some, it isn't a big deal, for others it is important. As a consultant I take pride in giving the customer everything they want and taking their complaints seriously. We exist because of the customer so technically the old adage "the customer is always right" is how I approach the customer and how I expect to be approached as a consumer.

wise words....

[Chainfire]

I can't remember the last time I bought software or hardware without a manual. CD or hardcopy. On a couple occasions I had to go to a website to pull a copy down but at least the company provided a link so the process was rather quick and painless.


Well, to be honest, that TV and phone were my first (and so far only) times on physical products... I was surprised but I did not really mind though - yes I did actually check online if there was a manual there. Not because I need the manual, but out of curiosity.


Again, I am focusing on the customer experience. The vendor shouldn't make the experience time consuming or drawn out. For some, it isn't a big deal, for others it is important. As a consultant I take pride in giving the customer everything they want and taking their complaints seriously. We exist because of the customer so technically the old adage "the customer is always right" is how I approach the customer and how I expect to be approached as a consumer.

Well, just to clarify: I'm not saying there shouldn't be a manual. But there isn't, and I can understand why (I have always found it a bit weird there is no trial version, though).

I would sincerely doubt the guys over at CoreCodec (or any succesful company) are eating out of their noses all day long. I could imagine they are doing things they think are more important than pushing out a manual. Say they have an X amount of users that want feature Y, and a 5*X amount of users that want feature Z, and you only have time and/or budget and/or manpower to do one. Which one would you do? It's impossible to please everyone and margins are not that big these days - you can't magically make everything everybody wants happen.

I think you also need to take into account that being a consultant and being a software house are very different beasts. If you get an order, you are payed a fee for all the time you spend on that specific customer, and while you do need to do everything that the customer wants you also get payed for every second. A software house has to offset development costs versus customers * purchase fee. All customers pay for the product together. While you could of course still go the route of trying to please everyone, this would drive costs up immensely. If you want to have everything handed to you on a gold platter, be prepared to pay in gold.

Compare it to the budget vs. the "pro" electronics store. You can go buy a new TV at the budget store where the service is bad, they don't deliver to your house, the store doesn't look very nice, etc. Now, at the "pro" store, you can buy the same TV but it costs $150 more. The service is awesome though, and not only do they deliver to your house, they also install it, hook up your VCR, etc. They even have a 24/7 hotline for when you run into problems! And that is exactly why you pay $150 more :) (well I wouldn't, but it seems you would)

As for the consumer always being right, well, only if he's right. As for having rights - you have the right to vote with your wallet, get a competing product, etc. While as you say most companies exist by the grace of the consumers, most products exist by the grace of the companies making them. It's a symbiotic relationship, not a one-sided one. I regularly see people treating this is only the consumer side or only the business side, and IMHO both viewpoints are just as wrong (unless you are in the services sector).

Besides, BetaBoy already stated in one of his comments that they are working on it, so the whole point is moot anyways - they are giving you what you want, you'll just have to wait for it some more. If it's that big a deal to you, ask for (and get) a refund. In the end, it's the vendor who decides what happens, and it's the consumer who decides if they "get away with it" - and that is decided by use (or non-use) of your wallet, nothing else.

As another comparison, consider HTC. This is a HTC-centric forum. See how many people there are here and how popular their devices are? This while HTC easily has the worst service and support of any company I have ever dealt with. Added to that, their products are half-broken most of the time. They don't even deliver drivers with half their devices, they are always trying to weasel out for repairing your device under warranty, their build quality is not spectacular, and their products are plagued with production faults they claim do not exist. In light of that, I find it plain rediculous that you are complaining about a manual (something 99% of users never even look at) for a great product, instead of complaining about any of the plethora of faults with the hardware said product works on.

That goes even more for those who were complaining a while ago about CorePlayer's hardware accelleration. Technically, CoreCodec is doing is an extreme favor trying to get this to work (you think this is easy? think again!) - because it is without a doubt HTC's fault for not supplying properly accellerated graphics drivers and 3rd party usable APIs for using specific functions like MP4 decoding. (again, typical HTC).

Well, either way I think it's clear our viewpoints differ on this. But I think CoreCodec deserves more than the stream of bashing that this topic is. Their MP4 decoder is generally considered to be the very best in the industry, and I applaud their achievements.

[ppatrick]

Well, to be honest, that TV and phone were my first (and so far only) times on physical products... I was surprised but I did not really mind though - yes I did actually check onli ...........


your long post does not add much value to this conversation....

It's pretty clear you are not a software developer..., when you develop software there are internal documents (available to who ever works on the project) defining and describing configuration variables , those descriptions many times are part of the source code (.h or .hpp files). Those definitions in Coreplayer's case are 90% of the information required on the manual the conpany refuses to deliver.

There are other reasons why some software companies refuse to deliver the manual; Competitors. Companies are reluctant to deliver the information that describe the structure and idea behind a particular piece of software. But this is part of the game, if you do not want to release that info, then distribute your software for free....

About "voting with your wallet" that's fine if the company does not cheat hiding the fact (before you buy) that the manual IS NOT AVAILABLE...
After the company decide to take this path, there should not be mercy on them even if they sell an apparently good piece of software

betaboy said that they are working on the manual for version 2, that means I have to pay MORE upgrading my product for getting the manual????? NO WAY..NO WAY.. NO WAY... I WANT MY MANUAL NOW, that "company" is not going to play with me nor with my money either.


Your coments on HTC are completely out of topic; this country's economy is going to hell for people like you, Your complacency with company abuses only foster more cheaters around and lower quality on EVERYTHING.....

[X2D]

edit, whatever lol not going to get involved in this =)

[Chainfire]

your long post does not add much value to this conversation....

etc bla bla


Oh wow, you are trying to hurt me with your words! Excuse me while I go call my mother while I sob in the corner.

Perhaps if you could write like a normal person, people would take what you have to say seriously. This is not how we discuss differences in opinion here on XDA (or pretty much the whole civilised part of the internet).

I say good day to you sir, and hope to never look at any posts from you again.

[ppatrick]

Oh wow, you are trying to hurt me with your words!

Trying to hurt you? c'mon my sensitive friend, that's a good excuse to avoid giving a valuable answer...
If you want to make a point please back it up with real knowledge and be ready to take the criticism. If you cannot cope with someone telling you that your input does not add value to the conversation please do not post.