Forbidding "best ROM/best app"/comparison topics is so wrong.

[DSF]

Well, while browsing the forum I've observed such a wrong attitude: moderators are closing topics where people makes comparison between different things, may it be ROMS, software, etc.

Examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=428372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=449641
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=454243

Sorry, but the moderation team SHOULD know the following:
- there are people that have tested many ROMS/applications
- there are people who don't have time to test n applications/ROMS

So what's wrong if ONE that had tested multiple ROMs share his opinions with the rest? What's wrong in telling us about the most stable ROM? I've also read something like "Test all the ROMS and see what's the best for you".. So, for eg, I have to flash all the ROMS to find out which one is the most stable .. instead reading other user suggestion that had already done that.. So WRONG and redundant.
Of course you can read other users opinions about a ROM in its dedicated thread , but a summary thread it's most valuable for many of us.

So, please, do not restrict this kind of topics!

[DaveShaw]

There are some good posts (maybe even by me :)) on why these threads are a bad idea, but I cannot find one of them for the life in me. So off the top of my head...

These threads are very subjective, each person has there own opinion on what a good ROM is and (maybe more inflamtary) who their favorite chef is.

There have been ROM review threads in the past, that's not a problem - PURESKILLZ flashed reviewed every kaiser ROM for a while (with screen shots).
And most moderators will let a "Can you recommend me a good arabic* ROM" thread, if correctly placed.
*Replace with some other niche requirement.

The main problem is ROM's come and go, I remember when Dutty's Hybrid Kaiser ROM's were the Dogs Bollocks, now I prefer something newer. Even what I prefer changes daily, last week it was minimal plain today screens, this week I felt like a Full Manila 2D ROM. How can this sort of thing be maintained? A collection of conflicting opinions of many users. How would chefs feel if people started to rate them against on anyother, i.e. is Noonski better than Dutty? Also, the threads are often started by noob's and never maintained so will soon become redundant.

The easiest way to see the latest ROM's is to check the 1st page or 2 of the "[device name] ROM development / Upgrading" forum.

Also, this is a Development site, Kyphur say's it best here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45

Thanks
Dave

[Noonski]

If these kinds of posts would have proven to help they'd probably would be allowed.

They can serve the developers.

The prove of this is that some Comparison threads are still alive and kicking, because they compare in a professional manner

But in most cases they turn into nasty Food Fights that manage to get the developers of the apps being compared to give up because of the rudeness of the posts.

So as helping and creating an environment for Developers has a higher priority then having people express their opinions we'd rather not take the risk.

PS: Dutty is better then me.:D
But we both make different PERSONAL decisions on what we do. See the keyword "Personal" even thought everyone knows better, it's very easy to take it personal even when it ain't. Some handle it better then others, but why make life harder?

[kyphur]

To repeat and possibly elaborate on what my esteemed colleagues have already stated:

A good Comparison Thread for Roms, Applications etc can always be useful. The problem is that "Which is the best" is a very subjective thing and so often the posters get into verbal sparring in defense of their fav at the moment.

There have been examples of good comparison threads where a complete analysis of each Rom/Application was given but the the "Fanbois" have come in and polluted the thread to the point that it just had to be trashed.

Read the post in my signature (and many others I've noticed) about "What is XDA-Devs?", enjoy the journey by trying them yourself....

[DSF]

I can see your point guys.. and you are right.. But you must agree that even if the user isn't developing something for WM/mobiles that doesn't mean that he's stupid or smth. That's true that many people ask really dumb questions for such site..

What motivates a developer? Feedback and money. Yes, feedback. Feedback coming from regular users. Why are developers releasing ROMS? Because they want to help others (esp. regular users, non-dev segment). Why some developers are releasing more versions frequently? Yes, because of feedback. Because they know that they don't work in vain. Even negative feedback is extremely good. It makes you to do the work better, to work more on it. Competition (vs things) is also good.

If this site was meant only for developing proposes then almost all the information was meant for: learning, sharing, evolving. And I mean only in "development style".
Also, here we can see many forums dedicated to Applications, even themes. Actually there are MORE forums for this instead for Development. See my topic "Development and Hacking" should be splitted (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=464325). This should be addressed ASAP. If xda-developers is more organized in this area maybe more valuable developing information will be found.

You are all right but you miss one point, your work without the regular people is in vain. Let's say you talk here only about developing , but if you release an application you feel that you want to share it with the rest.. but if there are only developers , who can and know to program the application, then there's no joy..
If there is no question, there's no answer.

So I must say you should be more flexible with comparison threads and if someone post in "noob style" just warn/suspend him. Even if we are subjective, many of us have same tastes. Plus the user can point/explain why he choose that ROM/app. But you're right ,many people just don't elaborate it's choice, some say only "x is the best" without anything more

Sorry if I was not too coherent, I don't feel so good

[dumpydooby]

The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.


More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham

Those who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.

It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.

As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."

[the-equinoxe]

The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.


More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham
.....

It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments .....

As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."

My 2 cts:

Nicely put, but (in my opinion) you still miss some points:
-value judgments are allowed, everybody is free to post their opinion about a certain ROM in the appropiate thread (obiding the rules of decency ofcourse).
So some of your quotes aren't applicable.

-There is no "best ROM", just as clearly there is no best "politial party", not a "best religion" or the "best way to raise a kid", that is because everybody have different needs, different values, and different ways of observation.
What is good for one, is bad or even harmfull for another, or just an insult. Please keep that in mind.
And because of this phenomena general threads like best ROM don't add value but only clutter, it's impossible to get general consensis.

Objective threads on the other hand are constructive.
You can take a variable like speed, indexing etc and measure that, and everybody knows that eg. a higher value for speed is better.

I think we tend to keep the forum as it is: a developers forum, so we naturally tend to judge numbers, and we attach higher values upon numbers that on personal feelings.

Disclaimer:
Please note that this post is a reflection of my own opinion and should not be seen as the general opinion of the moderator team or XDA-developers!

[scotchua]

The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.


More aptly put:"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset MaughamThose who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.

It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.

As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."

I think you've really completely missed the point. The logic behind closing these threads is very simple, and has been already stated many times. It was determined long ago that these type of threads do more harm than good, and as such was made a rule here at XDA long before most of the people complaining about this issue even joined the site. Since it's a rule, the moderators enforce it.

It's nice to think that the "best app/rom" threads could somehow be a good place where healthy discussion could flourish, and users could provide constructive praise & criticism, but anyone who does any quantity of reading knows that the majority of people interested in "best rom/app" threads don't have any basis for constructive criticism, as they probably haven't flashed enough roms to know the difference between them.

As for you example of Manila2D/Manila3D, we all know that came to replace HTC Home for a very simple reason, which is that people want what's new, even if it isn't better. In that particular example i happen to prefer the manila interfact to HTC Home, but as a general rule it still remains true. That's why users who can't even read an error message to figure out they need to install netcf are always installing beta software, and then filling threads with questions. Not that i'm against them trying new software, but if you're gonna start something that's over your head, you oughta get prepared to start learning.

Anyway, I suppose the point to all of this is mostly the same as what Mike said, which is that obviously we can see the conceptual value to having these threads where users could post the things they do/don't like about roms/apps, but like many things in live it just doesn't work out in the way it should. Since users are allowed to post their thoughts and their criticisms about a rom in the thread for that rom, where the chef will definiitely read it, I don't feel like we're impeding anyone's ability to voice their opinions. All we require is that they are respectful when they share it.

[JimmyMcGee]

I will admit to being one of the mods who may be, in your opinion, quick to squelch these best of threads.

When asked why I was closing so many "Which is the Best ROM" threads in the Kaiser section, I replied the following.

Thank you for your opinion. The Guidelines for the Kaiser Section were not invented by me solely and for no reason.

The reasons most Kaiser Mods discourage this type of thread, is these threads not only can create hard feelings between chefs but has been known to lead to all out flame wars

If you want to know peoples personal opinions on ROM, you are more than welcome to ask these questions in the ROM thread.

Also, the Kaiser forum is very active and placing peoples opinions of ROMs in the ROM Thread, where the chef can see and respond to such opinions, is more helpful to the community at large.

This guideline was not created to stop personal opinions and speech. But to lead to a better organized Forum Section.

Thanks,

Jimmy McGee Those are still my sentiments. I once asked Scotchua about his favorite ROM. I tried it, and honestly I didn't like it. But that's ok, Scotchua and I have different priorities. As most people do.

There was once a thread, again in the Kaiser Section, (Can you tell what phone I use?) asking what the best IM app was. That thread is still open today. The Discussion was very civil and spoke of the equatable statistics of each IM app. Like which ones used proxies, which ones didn't, what once were free, and which ones cost. Since these programs were focused on the same end goal, To Send IMs via MSN, AIM or Yahoo!, it was easy to compare.

But this is not the case with ROMs, NATF started off making "Lean" ROMs for the Kaiser, while Leo was making "Fully Loaded" ROMs. These are two different categories that cannot be compared as easily.

Once again thank you for all your input, just remember, you can win all the battles. :)

[ayyu3m]

woohoo...mike boy...you have hit 10 stars.... :D

btw...yep...completely off-post but i hav a feelin this thread is gonna be trashed soon

[denco7]

Very... Very well done. If anyone ever questions the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the Mods , they should be directed here. Well thought out answers (I personally am against this type of thread) (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3116933&postcount=19) and nicely conveyed opinions.

When and if another of these threads are closed, I think that this link should be attached, so that the OPs will know that thought was put into the closure and it was not done randomly.

Okay, now to those that think a thread like this could be constructive, I propose a test thread. But let us substitute some thing else for " roms " so as not to alienate any chefs EH............... lets say countries. Here is the new test thread


I am new here and I am trying to determine , " What is the best overall country in the world? " Could someone direct me please?

Okay, I will kick it off.......America, I have found to be the best, land of the free and all that.;););)

[msd24200]

I completely agree with our Mods here, to allow these threads to exist would basically cause competition between the chefs, and that is something that should never happen. In the short time that I have been a member of this site I have learned ALOT by doing my own search, homework, and asking questions. I have made alot of friends on here and have very much grown to, dare I say "love" this site. I would hate to see this site turn into a competition site between chefs. If that happened there would probably be a reality tv series started AbC, CBS, etc... would be trying to buy rights to air "KAISERS HELL KITCHEN" lol, but seriously if there is a competition between chefs we would be loosing out due to the chefs not wanting to share their knowledge, because they are trying to out due each other. they would all be trying to keep their "trade secrets" out of "enemy" hands i guess you could say.

there would be no winner, just alot of us loosing out just to make things easier for newbs instead of them working, reading, and learning as we all have. i've heard some newbs say that they want this because they don't have time like the "regular" members on here do, and one post really kinda brought to lite the lack of motivation to learn: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3115995&postcount=12 a way they can tell now what roms are hot is check out how many veiws a thread has had, people flock to the popular threads don't they? it also goes back to personal opinion and experience, ex: if two people flash the same rom and one uses the wrong hardspl, radio, and doesn't hard reset and the other does all right who's kaiser will work properly, next you have that newb that didn't use the right spl, radio, etc.. telling everyone that the ex. rom is buggy when in all reality it is not.

[BPB21]

You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...

DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".

DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".

dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.

To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."

the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)

JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).

msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...

denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."

I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.

Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself (http://forums.tweakguides.com/showthread.php?p=93314#post93314). I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).

The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.

That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.

[DaveShaw]

You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...

DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".

DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".

dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.

To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."

the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)

JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).

msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...

denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."

I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.

Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself (http://forums.tweakguides.com/showthread.php?p=93314#post93314). I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).

The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.

That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.

Good summary, but I would recomment Switzerland instead of Sweden :p

Dave

[DaveShaw]

WTF. Jeeeeesh.... where do you guys get off..... Switzerland, Sweden.... pahhhh! I say. It's obvious to those WHO BOTHER TO RESEARCH and do A BIT OF READING that Norway is the ONLY option here that is worth the attention of anyone with a brain cell count exceeding a single digit.

Mike

PS
Yes of course if a poster asks for suggested ROMs and in doing so gives a very detailed list of requirements, then the thread would not be closed.

I've changed my mind and retract Switzerland.
Norway? What are you on Mike :p
It has to be Malta. (This could go on all week, so I'll stop)

Dave

[msd24200]

ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!

[Addicted2xda]

I completely agree with the Mods (also I use very low end devices, with not a lot of cookers)!
Because we all have our preferences when thinking which ROM is better, I may be ready to sacrifice anything for say speed or asthetics, but there may be pple (a lot of them) who want a mix of two. So what is best for me may not be best for you. And also there is no Sysoft Sandra like software in the mobile arena (sktools comes close) which can judge the actual performance of ROMs. Plus their tests are not what real life situation based. They are doing one thing at a time, while in real life, you are listening to a song or watching a video or surfing and a call or sms comes. So personally I prefer no comparisions. Come on the chefs burn a lot of mid night oil to cook this ROMs (and most of the users, including me don't donate a penny!), so what we can atleast do is give two hours of our 'valuable' time to check out their ROMs by ourselves. And we are so busy, then keep the original ROM and don't consider upgrading :D.
But its just my opinion nothing personal. I have tested nearly all ROMs in the Vox forum and Gene forum (for new Genes), and I am not a student ;), a working professional.

[Noonski]

ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!


I have relayed your Offer, as i'm not in any position to judge or say anything about it.

Thanks.

[jjta]

1st i agree with the mods ....asking questions that wont get "logical" answers will get you flammed even by jrs like me. BUT i will take adavntage of this situation. we have alot of mods all on 1 thread "that hasnt been close" soooo whoever has a kaiser can you advise me on a stable fast lite "preferably" rom that DOESNT freeze up when texting "its already getting warm!!!" i have tried many roms and cabs with no success ive even put on an aprion :used a kitchen tool" but still nothing. I EVEN GOT A REPLY FROM DUTTY HIMSELF "ull never guess how many pms he gets" so instead of walking around blind openning new threads ima be a smart kid and ask the smarter ppl! always works for me.

[Dr.Tenma]

Making competition between chefs is good thing i think...With doing that, we'll get the bests rom (speed, stability, features, etc...). Those thread should not be closed i think.
There are a lot of roms on this forum, do you think people will test all those to find which one is the best ? I think they're lazy to do that if they know that somebody tested many roms and could give his advice, they also ain't time for that.
This is my opinion and Sorry for my bad (oh how bad !) english :)

[denco7]

Making competition between chefs is good thing i think...With doing that, we'll get the bests rom (speed, stability, features, etc...). Those thread should not be closed i think.
There are a lot of roms on this forum, do you think people will test all those to find which one is the best ? I think they're lazy to do that if they know that somebody tested many roms and could give his advice, they also ain't time for that.
This is my opinion and Sorry for my bad (oh how bad !) english :)

If you are too lazy to shop for what best fits you then you ( not you personally ) don't deserve the best. The best belongs to those who do their homework.

[JimmyMcGee]

If you are too lazy to shop for what best fits you then you ( not you personally ) don't deserve the best. The best belongs to those who do their homework.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2479/scruffyfuturama.jpg

Also, If we make it a competition, I think there will be even less sharing of Ideas, Source Dumps, and other niceties.

[Farmer Ted]

Also, If we make it a competition, I think there will be even less sharing of Ideas, Source Dumps, and other niceties.

I agree completely. I kind of think that having a 'which is the best' thread is like going to your company Christmas party and having a 'Who has the cutest kid' competition. It just seems a little bit rude. It's one thing to discuss radios, where no one has anything personal at stake, but to start reviewing and comparing the chefs' work just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. If we were paying for the ROMs, then ok, I could see it. But this stuff is given (and taken) freely, so try whatever you want out and pick what works best for you.

[dazza9075]

I have tried typing this post several times to express my opinion (shock horror!) and i cant put it in to words so im going to sum it up plain and simple.

Crazy.

[redbandana]

I've tried Chocolate ice cream but not vanilla
You've tried Chocolate ice cream and vanilla but like chocolate better and tell me not to try vanilla
We both tried strawberry but think it can be improved if it possessed different attributes.

We can both share our own judgment about strawberry in the strawberry thread. We can both say how much we like chocolate in the chocolate thread. However, since I have not tried vanilla and you are telling me it is inferior to chocolate, why would I bother trying it?

The strawberry ice cream man decides to put more effort into his ice cream and listen to users comments on what needs to be fixed because it isn't tasting correctly but it is good enough for the majority.

The chocolate ice cream man feels great that the majority loves his ice cream and works to please his tasters.

The vanilla ice cream man decides to pack up and go elsewhere with his icecream because someone considered him to be inferior to chocolate and lessor than strawberry but believes tasters are creating negative associations because of that one taster comment

Point is this is a developers forum. Comparing roms may chase a talented developer away because he wasn't encourage rather compared when he wasn't asked too.

The day two rom developers ask to be compared/contrasted/which one do you like better, then I would say go ahead. Fairly simple concept...

[redbandana]

Well, lets look at it another way. Would you go into a food store and ask the sales person for their best food please? Or would you go to a car showroom and as for their best car?

The answer is no because the sales person has no idea what you like and what your tastes are. You would then either be asked lots of questions or you would be at the mercy of the seller trying to push what they like rather than what might suit you.

There is however, IMHO, nothing wrong in stating what your needs are in some detail and then asking if there is a ROM which would best meet those specific needs. I stress though, that you need to provide a good level of detail on your needs before asking the question.

On the whole there is no escape from the need to read the descriptions of each ROM, then try out the ones that seem to come close to your needs. This answers the "best ROM" question better than any number of questions to other folk. Don't forget too that the main thread for each ROM is the ideal place to ask or search for answers to questions about that particular ROM.

Mike

Oh, and finally, it's not that Mods like to dictate what can be asked and what can't, so much as the sheer amount of argument that tends to arise in such threads that is the problem.

haha i didn't know you used food as an example as well.

[Dr.Tenma]

Why don't we try to open new thread Best rom, then see if something goes wrong or not...As you say?

[dazza9075]

You know id be more worried about talented and potentially talented individuals coming to this forum finding out how crazy things have become and running a mile.

This site is a victim of its own sucesss, but do we punish the many good users that try help out and learn on here because of a few indivdiuals that dont realise the difference between opinion and fact, dictating what one can and cant say outside general politness and public social guidlines seems a step too far.

This is an online community, the title of this website has long since lost any since of a literal meaning, it is a place for the user and a place for developers.

a thread about "WHich ROM" using opinions is of no concern to developers just like a random comment on a developers thread has no place being there.

[Dr.Tenma]

I totally agree with you dazza9075 !

[veyka]

There are two types of thread:

"What is the BEST rom?"

And

"Here is a comparison of available roms, make up your own dam mind"

There is no way someone can tell you whats "Best" for you, you have to try it, if someone's benchmarked, or reviewed the roms, then it can help you.

I did spend a LOT of my spare time benchmarking all the Hermes roms at one point, and I can tell you, that even on a relatively "dead" device it could use 5-6hours of time a day without getting everything done.

So really, "Whats the BEST" rom thread are forbidden, Threads comparing, reviewing, benchmarking, are good, in my opinion.

[the-equinoxe]

@veyka

+1

[livndeadgrl13]

i believe there is a healthy competition between cooks here already they are all trying their best to put out a quality product, and if someone is too lazy to flash then i agree you dont deserve the best, as soon as i got my wing i flashed it at least 15 times in a couple days looking for the right one, it comes with the territory im still flashing once every couple days just trying stuff out. if the cooks put in the work for dev then im more than happy to flash it :)