My response from HTC about poor radio reception

[cactusbob]

I asked HTC if/when they were going to release the updated ROM for Europe with the improved radio ROM, this is the response I got:


We are very surprised to hear you are having problems with your device. I would first recommend performing a simwipe as this will do a soft-reset at the same time. This will clear any static from your Sim card. - Turn phone off - Take battery out - Remove Sim Card - Clean gold contacts on sim card (this will clear any static) - Replace sim card then battery - Turn phone back on You could try a soft-reset by pressing in the soft-reset button using your stylus. This will reboot your device much like a PC. This will normally cure any software problems and speed your device up. Please note that performing the below instructions will remove all of your data on your device. Please backup any data first. Another option would be to try a hard-reset to set it back to factory settings. In order to do this: - Backup your data first - Turn memory card encryption off - Start - Settings - System Tab - Clear Storage - Enter 1234 and press OK - Your device will now revert back to factory settings. Is it working now? Please let us know how you get on.

Very helpful I don't think. How will cleaning my SIM card possibly help?

[darfri]

LOL. Geniuses! According to the upcoming rate of new device models with very little changes and the repeatedly criticized support it seems like HTC is too blinded by the evolution mania that haunts all the companies suffering from the downside of economy - impayable rivalry.
As we are living in postmodernist times it is still important to remind the principle of the monster called modernism - FORM prior to ESSENCE. :)

[P996]

Sounds like an automated response to me. Many people email companies regarding products and they really expect an expert reply but all they usually get is an automated response, based on the content of the email and maybe the email header.

It is a shame but honestly, if you want to ask a company something about a product, you usually need to have a contact in the upper hierarchy, otherwise you get what you get...an automated response and/or a non-qualified response.

Another thing is: what do you expect? There are only two possibilities regarding the poor signal reception of the HTC Diamond 2: HTC issues a new and improved radio firmware which corrects the problem OR if it is a hardware problem, don't expect much.

Some cell phone manufacturers are sometimes also very very clever (they think): they raise just the bar signal strength indicator without any real reception improvements.
It is usually a bad sign if the signal reception is crappy from the start, so don't expect much difference from a radio firmware update.

The only company I know of so far who actually improved radio reception was RIM with their BlackBerry Storm. I don't know how they did it, apparently the antenna design was OK and everything but maybe the energy saving setup kicked in too much at the beginning, who knows. Anyways: a firmware update improved things substantially and I've never seen a similar improvement on a device from another company out there.
Apple's iPhone 3G is maybe a good example: Apple raised the signal bar display but signal reception stayed the same, HSDPA connections were just a bit more stable but no real reception improvement. Good trick to fool customers. ;)

[cactusbob]

It is usually a bad sign if the signal reception is crappy from the start, so don't expect much difference from a radio firmware update.


I disagree, there are often significant performance differences between the Radio ROMs on these HTC devices. With my Kaiser I found an update resolved similar poor performance problems. I'm not asking for full on top quality reception but I would at least hope to get a basic phone signal in my house in the same places I could with my Kaiser. That's not too much to ask is it? Couldnt care less if I get 3G coverage at home (I have Wifi)

[deechte]

I disagree, there are often significant performance differences between the Radio ROMs on these HTC devices.I can confirm the same for my old Cruise. Radio ROM's made great differences!

[mrmckeb]

I'd love to know when this is coming out too...

[pietrucci]

My radio quality is very good in Holland with the stock radio. No need for an upgrade.

[cactusbob]

It is just generally poor for me. For instance now in my office where I would normally get full bars on my Kaiser, I have just two

[pietrucci]

It is just generally poor for me. For instance now in my office where I would normally get full bars on my Kaiser, I have just twoWhat country are you in? And what provider?

[trinode]

Mine too is very poor.

I'm on both 3, and T-mobile in leeds, UK

[cactusbob]

What country are you in? And what provider?

T-Mobile UK

[pietrucci]

T-Mobile UKSo are there any other UK T-Mobile users with poor reception? Or with good reception? Or with ány reception?

[cactusbob]

It is not the T-Mobile network, in the locations where I get no signal in my TD2, the same SIM can get good reception in a Nokia

[bedrC]

Mine is from Germany and i must say that my Elf had a higher number of reception bars than TD2 in some areas, but so far no reception problems. So maybe it's just the number of bars and not the actual reception, like many said before.

[Pete_S]

I can confirm it's not terribly sensitive. I previously had my t-mobile sim in a USB datastick, and the reception was better on my train journey to work. Now it drops connection a bit more frequently with the TD2, but it's not too bad.

I suspect the signal strength bars read lower than they should too. And, reception is erratic in that you get good recetion one day and poor the next, in the same location. This is hopefully firmware fixable.

One of the problems with the TD2 is the placement of the GSM/3G aerials at the bottom of the case, where you normally hold the phone. You have to make a conscious effort to hold it by the top for best signal. Except when you use Google maps with GPS. Then you hold it by the middle http://forum.xda-developers.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[cactusbob]

So maybe it's just the number of bars and not the actual reception, like many said before.

Not the case here, at home most of the time the phone is just searching for the network

[trinode]

It is not the T-Mobile network, in the locations where I get no signal in my TD2, the same SIM can get good reception in a Nokia

He's not blaming T-Mobile for poor coverage, but rather seeing if the problem is worse on different networks, which may prove the phone radio is worse on certain frequency bands, or similar things which differ by network.

Also, same problem here on T-mobile (and 3) - Regularly dropping off the network at my house.

[mrsilly]

I'll add to this, coming off M40 at junction 3 call drops in 3g mode every time, fine in GSM. This hasn't happened on any phone i've owned since the awful NEC phones when 3 launched. It's definately the phone. I'm on Three BTW.

[d3sm0nd]

No problems with radio reception here in Switzerland...

[mastah]

No problems with radio reception here in Switzerland...

same here.

Only when it changes from H to 3G sometimes it drops calls.
But very rare...

Swisscom (99.8% coverage)
2008 Simcard

[mrmckeb]

Does anyone think the issue could be that the antenna is at the base of the phone? I sure hope that's not the issue... I'd like it to be fixable.

I'm on 3 Mobile Australia, my previous phone (Nokia N73, same network) had much better reception.

[Pete_S]

I think it's part of the problem. Before I started holding the phone by the top half reception was really bad. But I don't think it's the whole issue. You could test the theory by holding the phone upside down and using the speaker whilst on a call and see if it improves.

[cactusbob]

Doesnt matter where you hold a phone if its sitting on a table constantly searching for a network

[ams1234]

Mine is from Netherlands and i must say that my Elf had a higher number of reception bars than TDiamond2 in some areas, i sent it back to HTC for repair i get it back but all is the same also the sound of the mp3 or fm radio on the headset is not so loud

Telfort NL =(KPN)

[Pete_S]

cactusbob: It really sounds like you might have a low sensitivity radio module. Is it still possible to return it? I can understand if you don't want to. Specially after the brain-dead response you got from the help people.

[cmonex]

usually not a HW issue, need to wait for new radio; unfortunately not compatible with blackstone for example.

[deechte]

I'm on Vodafone NL with my D2. The reception is worse than a Nokia I have and the touch cruise I had. The phone signal is dropped very often, searching for a network after that. I now sometimes have GPRS reception in areas where I used to have HSDPA.

It's not good, but I can live with it. I'm hoping for a radio ROM that solves it though!

[cactusbob]

With the help of a goldcard I have flashed the Asian WWE rom with the new radio. Sitting by me now the phone has a signal now, only weak but one none the less. When I was at work today and using the lift I noticed that it held onto the signal for longer, and came back much quicker when it eventually lost it.

When going from a 3G signal to just GSM the switch was seamless. I also noticed that HSDPA connections were substantially faster to connect.

[mohammedhus]

Egypt+Vodafone+Diamond2 - SAME PROBLEM :(

[Pete_S]

With the help of a goldcard I have flashed the Asian WWE rom with the new radio. Sitting by me now the phone has a signal now, only weak but one none the less. When I was at work today and using the lift I noticed that it held onto the signal for longer, and came back much quicker when it eventually lost it.

When going from a 3G signal to just GSM the switch was seamless. I also noticed that HSDPA connections were substantially faster to connect.

I'm really pleased for you! And thanks for bringing hope to the rest of us. The above improvements just about address all the problems.

[Glasshouse Jon]

I've got an XDA Orbit 2, a HTC Touch Diamond 2 and a Nokia 6230i. When SIM in the orbit 2 or Nokia, great reception. When SIM is diamond, sporadic reception. It's not the network or the SIM as HTC might like to blame, it's the bloody TD2 phone! This is a real shame since the TD2 is a beautiful piece of equipment. Come on HTC sort this bloody radio out!

[colonel]

One thing that might effect some people. I generally have good reception on my diamond II. I had a tmobile chip which was not great, but since I upgraded to vodafone its been much better (in UK).

However, a few times, in a few places, I have noticed that there are no signal bars showing. Another time the display actually said no connection (with the little x). The weird thing is that in both cases the reception was fine, and the data is fine., i.e. I can still browse the web, and it seems to be quite fast.

My conclusion is therefore, on mine, it is something to do with the signal display, and not the actual reception. A software bug ......

[cactusbob]

Using it at home today it is jsut as bad again, hopeless reception

[ratapoil]

I have also a bad hsdpa reception on my D2 (France - Orange). Gsm is relatively good, but hsdpa is bad !! It's not the network, but the device ! It was the same on the D1 or the HD or Xperia (it's this fu... qualcomm 72XX chipset, that suck's !!!).
I believed that D2 shuold be better on signal reception, but i'm disappointed !
Waiting for new radio, but...

[Simon D]

With help from xda developer members I managed to flash this ROM to my D2, which supposedly improves the radio performance:-
ROM version: 1.40.707.1
Radio version: 3.44.25.27
Improved Functions
* Radio upgrade.
Unortunately I haven't noticed any significant improvements in radio reception! :(

[KyBO]

Try the following:

Go to Comm Manager > Phone > last menu point (Band?)> and set your network type to GSM or WCDMA instead of Auto..

[trinode]

Try the following:

Go to Comm Manager > Phone > last menu point (Band?)> and set your network type to GSM instead of Auto..

do check that it won't get you banned by your network though....

[cactusbob]

And it doesnt help anyway

[HTC Touch Freak]

Just to let you all know I contacted HTC EU Support via E-mail and here is my response I got.

New Response From [ Pete (Europe Support (Tech)) ]
Thanks for your email. I was not aware of any ROM update for the asian market for teh TD2 already, and as far as we have been told here in tech support, there are no updates planned just yet. However, we have had a few calls regarding this and it is curretnly being looked into. If there has indeed already been an update forthis issue in asia, it should not be more than a couple of weeks before it is translated into the differnt languages and released here. hopefully, this will be VERY soon! Best regards, HTC Europe Support

Sounds like it's just a bunch of talk out of their butt. But since he did mentiond a few calls for it it sounds liike they are looking into it.

I want to suggest all of you to E-mail or Call and ask about this and your experiance with reception. Maybe we will get a solution sooner. I would call ut long distance.... eeeekkkk.

[muuu]

However, a few times, in a few places, I have noticed that there are no signal bars showing. Another time the display actually said no connection (with the little x). The weird thing is that in both cases the reception was fine, and the data is fine., i.e. I can still browse the web, and it seems to be quite fast.

My conclusion is therefore, on mine, it is something to do with the signal display, and not the actual reception. A software bug ......

If you use S2U2 you can see that no bars on the home screen is the same as one in S2U2.
That means no bars is what we normally call one bar.
So you have connection as long as you don't have a X on the network indicator, but when theres no bars its very likly that you'll loose connection anyway.
I often see it when my TD2 go from 3G to X to GSM/EDGH. I loose connection and regain it after.

But I don't think it's a pure software bug, my old Touch Dual/Diamond1 both had the same bad reception. And tried lots of radios and it made little difference.

I really do hope that it's only a software/radio bug, those can be fixed.
But I have little hope in HTC in that regard, if anything the answer is more likely to from this forum then anywhere else.

[WMguy]

However, a few times, in a few places, I have noticed that there are no signal bars showing. Another time the display actually said no connection (with the little x). The weird thing is that in both cases the reception was fine, and the data is fine., i.e. I can still browse the web, and it seems to be quite fast.

My conclusion is therefore, on mine, it is something to do with the signal display, and not the actual reception. A software bug ......
Me too. I've noticed many times I have only 1 bar but the call quality is great. So my signal strength indicator is always lower than previous phones but if I couldn't actually see the meter, I don't think I would notice all that much...

[wish34]

I have from no signal to 2 bars on my td2 with orange.
The phone is always searching for networks and often has all except orange on the list!
Orange say thy have no faults and there cell mast is next to vodafone mast!
tryed orange sim in a samsung u600 and the signal was marginally better with less drop outs.
So it would apear that radio is not so good on td2 :(

[colonel]

Can I recommend something that the clever Pete_S recommended to me which has really improved the situation:

Change phone settings to only connect to your network rather than "automatic"

Also worth zeroing on the bands in your country. I have set up gsm 900+1800 and umts 900+2100
when we get hacked ROM I will just do gsm 900+1800 and umts 2100 which is correct for the UK

Its probably worth doing the above in any case, as it won't be seeking so much and therefore saving battery

[cactusbob]

Thanks Colonel I'll give that a go

[Pete_S]

Can I recommend something that the clever Pete_S recommended to me which has really improved the situation:

Change phone settings to only connect to your network rather than "automatic"

Colonel, I don't think I deserve the flattery http://forum.xda-developers.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I did that on my old HTC P3300 on the recommendation of someone else.

As I've just posted in the other radio thread you started, I've now reverted to "automatic" network selection after a particularly irritating 10 minutes of "no network". I can almost see the base station mast from where I work, I felt like taking the phone to it and introducing it! The moment I set "automatic" it searched and found my network again. I give up http://forum.xda-developers.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

In truth, manual selection is probably better. In practice, when the TD2 decides it can't find your network it doesn't seem to matter what you've selected. It's a bug, a huge wopping bug. It seems to have got worse when I accidentally left the data channel open, that's the only "clue" I have.

[DaBountyHunter]

I did what colonel suggested and it's helped my reception a bit. I've got from no bars to 2 bars now and my battery life on 12 hours standy only dropped 5% so I guess the link between poor battery life is due to the radio. One thing I have noticed now though is I don't have HSDPA signal in the house after doing this so not entirely sure changing network to GSM from auto is the culprit?

[colonel]

I did what colonel suggested and it's helped my reception a bit. I've got from no bars to 2 bars now and my battery life on 12 hours standy only dropped 5% so I guess the link between poor battery life is due to the radio. One thing I have noticed now though is I don't have HSDPA signal in the house after doing this so not entirely sure changing network to GSM from auto is the culprit?

I've come to the conclusion its a mixed blessing.
Taking the network off auto does appear to assist the data signal not dropping out in areas of good service, but sometimes launches into "select network" menu when signal drops, which is self-defeating. So I have gone back to auto.

However, selecting the bands does help, simply because the phone is trying less useless frequencies during signal drop-outs.

Still waiting for new radio !!!!

[saulo866]

My rom: 1.40.707.1 (49069) WWE
My radio: 3.43.25.19

No matter how many bars, my Radio quality is really to low, both in my office and in other locations...even if I could not believe it, I gave it a try:

I removed my SIM and put it in my Touch HD: immediately all of my customers stopped complaining of poor voice quality, little understandability of my voice, etc....

So definetely the radio quality issue is true. quality is sub-standard.

As there is NO hspl, I could NOT try with a different radio yet, nor I could load a cooked rom.

I hope a new radio can fix this issue (quality of voice barely understandable), which is undoubtedly true.

For the moment I invite other people to remove SIM and place on a different phone and see whather their phones are better and more understandable.

Please let us know.

Thanks.
Saulo

My rom: 1.40.707.1 (49069) WWE
My radio: 3.43.25.19

[HTC Touch Freak]

My rom: 1.40.707.1 (49069) WWE
My radio: 3.43.25.19

No matter how many bars, my Radio quality is really to low, both in my office and in other locations...even if I could not believe it, I gave it a try:

I removed my SIM and put it in my Touch HD: immediately all of my customers stopped complaining of poor voice quality, little understandability of my voice, etc....

So definetely the radio quality issue is true. quality is sub-standard.

As there is NO hspl, I could NOT try with a different radio yet, nor I could load a cooked rom.

I hope a new radio can fix this issue (quality of voice barely understandable), which is undoubtedly true.

For the moment I invite other people to remove SIM and place on a different phone and see whather their phones are better and more understandable.

Please let us know.

Thanks.
Saulo

My rom: 1.40.707.1 (49069) WWE
My radio: 3.43.25.19

I agree with all that. People who think that voice quality is still good when they only have 2 bars are tricking themselves. Where I used to have full bars and now only have 2 voice quality is sometimes good and sometimes bad. Data connection suffers a whole lot. Most the time when I have 2 bars the pages either never load or they load really slow.

And I get 2 bars in my home. For 8 years I have never had anything but full bars with T-mobile on any of my unlocked phones.

[deechte]

I agree. Even today, I had an incoming video call which was rejected, because I only had GPRS reception on the D2. The Nokia phone that was on the same table would accept a video call over 3G just fine. Both have Vodafone sims. I'm still hoping for a radio ROM update soon.

[jeutie]

Look at what that I got from customer service:

I mailed:
Hi, I'm having some trouble with my HTC Touch Diamond 2,
And I recon I am not the only one having this problem...
On various forums loads of people are complaining on
'bad reception' of the radio...
So please don't send the standard answer of 'this is not a known issue'
Here, in Belgium... I get 1 bar reception max.
With my old HTC Touch Elfin, I had 4 bars reception.
I know this is a radio related problem. And I wonder if there is any fix?
I did the 'wipe sim' method already. hard-resetted my device,
It didn't work. Since a lot of people have this problem,
You might want to consider giving us a radio upgrade?
I tried the Asian one already, But it didn't help at all.And they sent me back:
Thank you for your feedback on your handset it is very much appreciated.

In response to your question:

Please keep an eye on our website for any future updates. We cannot specify when and if these will become available in the future. For now, please see our available troubleshooting steps below and if it still fails we can book it in for the repair service. Thank you.

I would first recommend performing a simwipe as this will do a soft-reset at the same time. This will clear any static from your Sim card.

- Turn phone off
- Take battery out
- Remove Sim Card
- Clean gold contacts on sim card (this will clear any static)
- Replace sim card then battery
- Turn phone back on

You could try a soft-reset by pressing in the soft-reset button using your stylus. This will reboot your device much like a PC. This will normally cure any software problems and speed your device up.

Please note that performing the below instructions will remove all of your data on your device. Please backup any data first.

Another option would be to try a hard-reset to set it back to factory settings. In order to do this:

- Backup your data first
- Turn memory card encryption off
- Start
- Settings
- System Tab
- Clear Storage
- Enter 1234 and press OK
- Your device will now revert back to factory settings.

Is it working now?

Please let us know how you get on.

So then I sent back to say again, that I DID that already...
And they replied:

If you are within 30 days of purchase, you can book your handset for a DOA (Dead on Arrival) via the retailer. Everything that came with the phone including the box will need to be returned.



Now... I'm kinda getting angry at their support :-p

[PhilipL]

Hi

I've got the Diamond 2 in the UK and find the reception exactly the same as that of the Tytn II it will eventually replace.

Compared to a more dedicated phone device, I've found PDA devices such as these are always the first to report a weaker signal or no service when reaching the edge of reception. If you've upgraded from a phone to one of these PDAs then seeing a weaker signal is really to be expected. Complaints of "worse reception than my old phone" I've seen for many makes and types of smart phone device over the years.

These PDA's have so much stuffed inside them it's a miracle they get any radios to work at all. There isn't much space for the phone antenna plus the bluetooth and Wi-Fi antennas and circuits to have any antennas sited in the optimal position, it's all a bit of a compromise. Reduction in size and increases in memory and even pixel count on the LCD panel are all making the phone rather dense to radio waves. An aerial sticking out the top or side would improve things drastically, but that's not fashionable these days :)

I've tried many radios on the Tytn II that others have said provide improvements in reception or reduce battery consumption and seen no differences in my own experience. So I wouldn't hold out for suddenly finding everything is improved and fixed by a new radio that happens to have a higher version number. These Qualcom chips have been around a good while now and it is unlikely the firmware is contributing to poor reception in my opinion.

Regards

Phil

[trinode]

Hi

I've got the Diamond 2 in the UK and find the reception exactly the same as that of the Tytn II it will eventually replace.

Compared to a more dedicated phone device, I've found PDA devices such as these are always the first to report a weaker signal or no service when reaching the edge of reception. If you've upgraded from a phone to one of these PDAs then seeing a weaker signal is really to be expected. Complaints of "worse reception than my old phone" I've seen for many makes and types of smart phone device over the years.

These PDA's have so much stuffed inside them it's a miracle they get any radios to work at all. There isn't much space for the phone antenna plus the bluetooth and Wi-Fi antennas and circuits to have any antennas sited in the optimal position, it's all a bit of a compromise. Reduction in size and increases in memory and even pixel count on the LCD panel are all making the phone rather dense to radio waves. An aerial sticking out the top or side would improve things drastically, but that's not fashionable these days :)

I've tried many radios on the Tytn II that others have said provide improvements in reception or reduce battery consumption and seen no differences in my own experience. So I wouldn't hold out for suddenly finding everything is improved and fixed by a new radio that happens to have a higher version number. These Qualcom chips have been around a good while now and it is unlikely the firmware is contributing to poor reception in my opinion.

Regards

Phil

Yep, we're all imagining it. :rolleyes:

[PhilipL]

Hi

Yep, we're all imagining it.

I'm not saying people are imagining it :) I had a Toshiba G900, everyone was complaining of poor reception on the phone network as well as Wi-Fi, I was complaining as well as it wasn't as good as a Motorola phone it replace, which can get a signal on the same network that other phones show 'No Service', so I was always quite smug :D

Tytn II had exactly the same reception charactistics as the G900 it replaced, no better no worse than the G900 as far as I could tell, and there were complaints about the Tytn II's reception, and now I have the Diamond Touch 2 that I see the same reception levels as the last two PDAs I've used a lot and see the same complaints. Maybe they are all just bad that's all I'm saying :rolleyes:

As for firmware improving things regarding a poor signal, well I can't see how it can improve on poor reception. The signal is either there, or very week or isn't there at all, and software can't change that as it's the physical properties of the antenna and circuit design and sensitivity of the radio. Yes perhaps they could up the gain a little bit at the expense of battery power (which will lead to different complaints), or change how quickly it roams to a 2G network in order to make it look like it's holding the signal better, or tweak how it reports the signal level so you get an extra bar, but firmware can't change the physical attributes of the device and suddenly make it suck in a better signal surely?

I've tried all the Tytn II radios and read how one version was so much better than another but seen absolutely no difference for my marginal reception.

Of course when radios do start to appear for the Topaz, I will of course still be trying them, I just can't help myself, but will not expect to see much difference :)

Regards

Phil

[trinode]

You are of course, right that the signal is there or not.

Funny that you should mention about the gain:-

I'd have to place a guess that in response to the complaints of battery performance of the Diamond 1, that HTC have "tuned" this so that the phone is more reluctant to boost the signal power / gain, and therefore will use less power, It would seem like they've taken it too far, I've noticed a considerable increase in calls dropping / voice garbling etc over my Raphael (Touch Pro).

Either way, I'm hoping that either new roms come with a better radio, or we can use the one that worked for me from the touch pro.

[katsj]

The TD2 is trying to connect at highest date speeds possible! It preferes the HSDPA than GPRS cause its a phone that suppose to have the fastest data connection possible! In those speeds the signal required is definately stronger than the signal a normal non-PDA phone needs just for calls! If you try to force your TD2 to GPRS mode then you will see that in areas with one line signal it reaches full 4 lines signal and has no difference than any other ericsson or nokia phone for calls. A newest radio can only fix the way the phone switch from GPRS to 3G mode in a way that signal is acceptable for phone calls all the time! And actually the only thing we need is that! A radio that is smart enough to switch between the various connection modes in a way that a phone call can be made at any circumstances! At the moment the phone seems to be triggered so that it keeps all the time the fastest possible data connection type and not the best phone call connection type!

[trinode]

The logic behind what I'm saying is:- It tries to locate a 3G network without powering up the radio enough (in an effort to save battery), so falls back to 2G when it doesn't need to, when with a bit more power it could have a reliable 3G connection.

EDIT: The touch Pro is supposed to connect at the highest speed possible, but NEVER dropped a call.

[Pete_S]

Hi

I've got the Diamond 2 in the UK and find the reception exactly the same as that of the Tytn II it will eventually replace.

Compared to a more dedicated phone device, I've found PDA devices such as these are always the first to report a weaker signal or no service when reaching the edge of reception. If you've upgraded from a phone to one of these PDAs then seeing a weaker signal is really to be expected. Complaints of "worse reception than my old phone" I've seen for many makes and types of smart phone device over the years.

These PDA's have so much stuffed inside them it's a miracle they get any radios to work at all. There isn't much space for the phone antenna plus the bluetooth and Wi-Fi antennas and circuits to have any antennas sited in the optimal position, it's all a bit of a compromise. Reduction in size and increases in memory and even pixel count on the LCD panel are all making the phone rather dense to radio waves. An aerial sticking out the top or side would improve things drastically, but that's not fashionable these days :)

I've tried many radios on the Tytn II that others have said provide improvements in reception or reduce battery consumption and seen no differences in my own experience. So I wouldn't hold out for suddenly finding everything is improved and fixed by a new radio that happens to have a higher version number. These Qualcom chips have been around a good while now and it is unlikely the firmware is contributing to poor reception in my opinion.

Regards

Phil

This confirms what I suspected, thanks Phil. This is my first 3G phone, so didn't know what to expect. It's true that so many antennas packed into a small space is a recipe for disaster. Particularly when the phone ones end up at the bottom of the phone just where you normally hold it.

But, aren't there Nokia smartphones which contain as many radios and antennas which perform better? Nokia, I think, are well known for the quality of their radios. I suspect HTC is not as good.

I like streaming internet radio on my TD2, and find it a frustrating experience when on the move. Sometimes when moving between cells the handover is seamless, more often it isn't. Sometimes you even lose data connectivity completely, even when 3-4 bars are showing (the data function has to be re-enabled). I'm finding it difficult to know what's caused by the inadequacy of the phone and what's caused by the inadequacy of the network. I don't think t-mobile coverage is that brilliant, even here in London.

Some would say I'm mad to even try streaming on a 3G network (specially on the TD2) http://forum.xda-developers.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I tend to agree that no matter what you put in the radio firmware it won't make a so-so receiver and antenna good.

I did have a thought that one just might be able to improve the antenna by adding a conductive pattern to the inside of the rear panel of the phone. It might be a crazy idea, one would need extensive knowledge of RF design.

[trinode]

I tend to agree that no matter what you put in the radio firmware it won't make a so-so receiver and antenna good.


But does a bad radio make a good reciever into a bad one? (yes)

We have the same chipset in this phone as in the Touch Pro, and presumably a similarly specced antenna set.

The Touch Pro worked great after I changed the radio, it started with a bad radio, which I'm assuming is what happened here, the TP NEVER dropped a call or connection after I upgraded it.

I think the hardware isn't that bad, but the radio is making it much worse than it could be.

[NLCJ]

I hope so, since I'm tired of that damn GPRS. Strange thing, when I set it to automatic it has around 1-2 bars and when I set it manually it has (most of the time) 4 bars. Same location?

[car1965]

Hutchison 3G Austria, very poor reseption, with my Nokia no problem.

[imranbashir_uk]

I don’t know if I’m just lucky or if the T-Mobile version MDA Compact V UK Radio has been tailored to suit the network, but I find my reception is on par with the Original Diamond if not marginally better.

Anyone else in the UK with a Compact V have the same experience?

[dangel]

I'm on T-mobile and it's not great compared to my old phone. It probably makes more of a difference if you live in a low signal area (like me) - some rooms in the house get reception, some don't (as compared to my old 614c which worked everywhere).

[Bodisson]

Sorry to jump in your party.
I was happy with my device, out-of-the-box (see signature). After that, I upgraded it for WM 6.0 to 6.1.
What an idiot! I had no real reason to do that except curiosity. But consequence was that my signal levels dropped radically, ta half what they were. GPS started to lose signal...
HTC always answered that it's as it should be. But, after GPS finally died (is controlled by same radio software!!!), they had to change motherboard.
After that, 3G, BT and GPS reception are awesome, at least double of what they were. With the same radio software (or better to say, complete ROM) I installed!

So my question is: what are your expiriences with "real" GPS applications (iGO, TomTom)?

[BeeGee_Tokyo]

Radio 3.44.25.27 used here in Japan. Always at least 3 bars. Better than my Diamond I had before.

[ams1234]

i have a poor signal on the Topaz now i sent it for the 2 time to HTC for repair the say by HTC not so mutch people complain about this problem

i have T-mobile Holland

[sskogen]

Sorry to butt in on a Diamond II forum (being a Diamond I owner myself).

But this discussion gives me a nice deja vu. My Diamond had the exact same problems on the Norwegian Telenor carrier for the first three iterations of radio roms. On the forth, it suddenly locked onto the network and things worked properly.

Being a bit of a geek myself, I tried to debug what actually happened (using field measuring equipment), and it seemed that what the rom actually adjusted was the specific gain for the frequency band "channels". This makes a lot of sense, since the actual signal gain (before amplification) is a relationship between the electrical length of the antenna, and the wavelength of the signal. The closer your antenna is to a fraction of the wavelength of your carrier, the stronger the signal it picks up. Needless to say, getting these gain-settings right takes time. (and a new design cellphone means you start all over again).

What we're seeing here, is HTC being pushed to ship out a product that REALLY isn't finished in its development cycle yet, because the telcos want more people on their ... slavery contracts. Basically you're holding an unfinished product.

This is why it rarely is good for connectivity being the first to buy a new phone.

//Svein

(p.s. I used to be an operations engineer at a Telco)

[chokee]

Sorry to butt in on a Diamond II forum (being a Diamond I owner myself).

But this discussion gives me a nice deja vu. My Diamond had the exact same problems on the Norwegian Telenor carrier for the first three iterations of radio roms. On the forth, it suddenly locked onto the network and things worked properly.

Being a bit of a geek myself, I tried to debug what actually happened (using field measuring equipment), and it seemed that what the rom actually adjusted was the specific gain for the frequency band "channels". This makes a lot of sense, since the actual signal gain (before amplification) is a relationship between the electrical length of the antenna, and the wavelength of the signal. The closer your antenna is to a fraction of the wavelength of your carrier, the stronger the signal it picks up. Needless to say, getting these gain-settings right takes time. (and a new design cellphone means you start all over again).

What we're seeing here, is HTC being pushed to ship out a product that REALLY isn't finished in its development cycle yet, because the telcos want more people on their ... slavery contracts. Basically you're holding an unfinished product.

This is why it rarely is good for connectivity being the first to buy a new phone.

//Svein

(p.s. I used to be an operations engineer at a Telco)

Hi Svein,

Thanks for your "research" and explanation. Do you think a suitable (Radio?) ROM can fix the signal issue, or does it mean only hardware replacement (motherboard?) can fix it?

chokee

[colonel]

I don’t know if I’m just lucky or if the T-Mobile version MDA Compact V UK Radio has been tailored to suit the network, but I find my reception is on par with the Original Diamond if not marginally better.

Anyone else in the UK with a Compact V have the same experience?

I have a MDA Compact V in London (I live in the north and work in the centre) and it is great reception in all areas.
I am using it on vodafone with radio 3.46.25.18 and the 23006 energy rom.

I had an HTC diamond 2 when it first came out and sold it for an htc magic.
The signal was not very good at the time and the data as well used to not reconnect easily after it had lost the signal.

I am back to the diamond 2 now (in MDA form), but I guess that later radio roms have solved the problem now

rgds

[todd69]

Sitting here with all the phones in my sig, moving the sim between them the topaz is really bad :(

Keeps dropping the H and I mostly use the wi-fi now, only read one bar on the topaz compared to 3 or 4 on the other phones.

Has anyone from the UK tried any other radios and had an improvement of any kind?

Cheers

[akirius]

Sorry to butt in on a Diamond II forum (being a Diamond I owner myself).

But this discussion gives me a nice deja vu. My Diamond had the exact same problems on the Norwegian Telenor carrier for the first three iterations of radio roms. On the forth, it suddenly locked onto the network and things worked properly.

Being a bit of a geek myself, I tried to debug what actually happened (using field measuring equipment), and it seemed that what the rom actually adjusted was the specific gain for the frequency band "channels". This makes a lot of sense, since the actual signal gain (before amplification) is a relationship between the electrical length of the antenna, and the wavelength of the signal. The closer your antenna is to a fraction of the wavelength of your carrier, the stronger the signal it picks up. Needless to say, getting these gain-settings right takes time. (and a new design cellphone means you start all over again).

What we're seeing here, is HTC being pushed to ship out a product that REALLY isn't finished in its development cycle yet, because the telcos want more people on their ... slavery contracts. Basically you're holding an unfinished product.

This is why it rarely is good for connectivity being the first to buy a new phone.

//Svein

(p.s. I used to be an operations engineer at a Telco)

Make sense
Hopefully is just a software issue, not hardware
Is there any way to find out which rom is designed for GSM band 1900?

[smuppy]

It is not the T-Mobile network, in the locations where I get no signal in my TD2, the same SIM can get good reception in a Nokia

Just have to ask, in what nokia model did you try your sim when you compared the reception?

[smuppy]

Sorry to butt in on a Diamond II forum (being a Diamond I owner myself).

But this discussion gives me a nice deja vu. My Diamond had the exact same problems on the Norwegian Telenor carrier for the first three iterations of radio roms. On the forth, it suddenly locked onto the network and things worked properly.

Being a bit of a geek myself, I tried to debug what actually happened (using field measuring equipment), and it seemed that what the rom actually adjusted was the specific gain for the frequency band "channels". This makes a lot of sense, since the actual signal gain (before amplification) is a relationship between the electrical length of the antenna, and the wavelength of the signal. The closer your antenna is to a fraction of the wavelength of your carrier, the stronger the signal it picks up. Needless to say, getting these gain-settings right takes time. (and a new design cellphone means you start all over again).

What we're seeing here, is HTC being pushed to ship out a product that REALLY isn't finished in its development cycle yet, because the telcos want more people on their ... slavery contracts. Basically you're holding an unfinished product.

This is why it rarely is good for connectivity being the first to buy a new phone.

//Svein

(p.s. I used to be an operations engineer at a Telco)

Totally true.

(p.s. I used to be an operations engineer at a swedish telco ;) )

[Tim4]

I have a poor signal on the Topaz too :(
Previous my device, Touch Dual, worked perfectly

P.S. I heard a lot of chinese users have problems with it :(
P.S.S. i'm "China mobile" user

[finesse]

The common denominator is the QualComm processor! My 201Mhz Texas Instrument phone feels quicker:(

XDA Developers contributes to 90% of the success of HTC because of the support avaliable, in trying to fix their phones!

[finesse]

Kaiser
Polaris
Diamond
Diamond2
Rapheal

Leo

All plagued with incompetent Qualcomm Processor

[anarchyuk]

i have the same issue, i used to have full signal tho, since i done hard spl and changed rom i dont get more than 2 bars, i thought it may be the age of my radio rom as it was an old one causing the issues so i updated and still no change, has anyone ever had any evidence of a network getting the radio rom tweaked? most the trx's on the cells for 2g in this country are the same on the nortell and ericsson sites, 3g sites are if not all made by nokia on most networks, so i cant see why one network would need tweaks, the only difference on some 2g sites are new things called TMR's that enhance signal in rural areas, like an electicory amplifier on a tv ariel!!

[Tim4]

Touch Dual based on Qualcomm too, but works great

[ams1234]

Mine is from Netherlands and i must say that my Elf had a higher number of reception bars than TDiamond2 in some areas, i sent it back to HTC for repair i get it back but all is the same also the sound of the mp3 or fm radio on the headset is not so loud

Telfort NL =(KPN)


2 times i sent my TD2 Topaz to HTC for this problem yesterday i get a new one back from HTC

now testing of this one have a better signal