PDA

View Full Version : "Putty Memory" or Hard/Soft Resets: Facts vs. Beliefs


douginoz
28th July 2009, 09:10 PM
I read over and over again the same sort of advice given to people that flash their phones and have problems - hard reset the phone immediately after flashing, then do lots of soft resets to clear up problems.

Ok, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that some people are told to hard reset their phone twice, or multiple times. This doesn't make sense.

There seems to be a growing belief, most likely perpetuated by non-technically minded users, that multiple hard resets will somehow effect a different outcome.

Can someone enlighten me on how a phone's memory, split between RAM and ROM, is somehow different than normal computer memory?

A hard reset will reset all writable memory and the CPU.
A soft reset will clear some cpu registers and some writable memory.

Once a hard reset is done, doing another one immediately afterwards can't really make a difference, can it?

If you disagree, please tell me in technical terms. I have 20+ years in CPU architectures in mainframes and don't understand this strange "variable" outcome.

Another, even more bizarre thing is this idea of a "bad flash" - that if your phone, after flashing, has idiosyncrasies, that doing another flash will solve it. By "idiosyncrasies", I mean that certain applications and features don't work well.

This seems to imply that flashing is an imperfect act - that >some< memory may not get written correctly. It's almost like the phone has putty for memory and the act of flashing is an imperfect art of trying to "impress" the phone with a new image, and sometimes you don't get a good imprint.

Are there no checksums? Does a phone actually run if some parts of memory are corrupt? I don't think so.

I think that if a flash doesn't work and some memory is corrupted, then the phone will freeze or spontaneously reboot. It's not going to operate 99.99% normally and have one application or function work slightly differently than everyone else's. Again, explain in technical terms how this can happen.


I'm pretty sure that a successful flash is pretty much a 100% guarantee that all memory has been copied to the phone exactly the same for all users with the same model of phone+radio. I don't think flashing a 2nd time does anything different. What I think happens is that the user tries a different set of actions after flashing the 2nd time, and possibly avoids creating the same problems experienced originally.

I also think that people are using the "If you have a problem, reflash or hard reset it several times" advice in the same way we tell non-geeks "reset your PC", ie. as a first step to troubleshooting. But it's developing an unspoken idea among many users that phones have what I'll call "putty memory" and that reflashing and hard reseting multiple times will effect the outcome.

DarkDvr
28th July 2009, 09:36 PM
Makes sense to me, as a Software Engineer myself, I can't see how or why would several resets achieve different results as 1 reset would.

But then again.. seeing how some software is written and what strange decisions hardware manufactureres make... I wouldn't be shocked.

DatDereX1
28th July 2009, 09:47 PM
people who say that are dumb.

petermg
28th July 2009, 09:49 PM
I agree with OP. Multiple hard resets should have the same effect, if not, it would point to a hardware (physical RAM/ROM) problem and if thats the case, its time to get a new phone.

stylez
28th July 2009, 10:02 PM
Not sure if this is really the right place as it's Dev & Hak

Also has been a topic so many times.

Simply put the custom RUU.exe's don't perform a hard-reset where as the original do, to which is why we hard-reset after a flash.

I know it all doesn't make sense but if you see how many people have problems hard-reset and all is well.

Then yes it does make sense :)

killer8nl
28th July 2009, 10:14 PM
Don't think it makes sense. Think people just do other moves after the hard reset so the problem doesn't appear. Or something with the install after the hard reset must go wrong. But that isn't the real hard reset, isn't it?

algorhythm
28th July 2009, 10:44 PM
Not sure if this is really the right place as it's Dev & Hak

Also has been a topic so many times.

Simply put the custom RUU.exe's don't perform a hard-reset where as the original do, to which is why we hard-reset after a flash.

I know it all doesn't make sense but if you see how many people have problems hard-reset and all is well.

Then yes it does make sense :)

The idea was that people say to hard reset MULTIPLE times rather than just hard reset once, thinking that it would do something different on the 3rd time than it does on the first time.


Those people make me /facepalm :(

twfx
29th July 2009, 04:34 PM
Someones believe that there is an internal mechanism which is able to remember how many times of hard resets you have performed. Then, some different actions (more complete reset?) may be taken every like 3 straight hard resets. But we don't know whether this kind of mechanism exists except microsoft and OEMs.

DaVince
29th July 2009, 05:11 PM
It's all placebo.

scotchua
29th July 2009, 06:14 PM
I read over and over again the same sort of advice given to people that flash their phones and have problems - hard reset the phone immediately after flashing, then do lots of soft resets to clear up problems.

Ok, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is that some people are told to hard reset their phone twice, or multiple times. This doesn't make sense.

There seems to be a growing belief, most likely perpetuated by non-technically minded users, that multiple hard resets will somehow effect a different outcome.

Can someone enlighten me on how a phone's memory, split between RAM and ROM, is somehow different than normal computer memory?

A hard reset will reset all writable memory and the CPU.
A soft reset will clear some cpu registers and some writable memory.

Once a hard reset is done, doing another one immediately afterwards can't really make a difference, can it?

If you disagree, please tell me in technical terms. I have 20+ years in CPU architectures in mainframes and don't understand this strange "variable" outcome.

Another, even more bizarre thing is this idea of a "bad flash" - that if your phone, after flashing, has idiosyncrasies, that doing another flash will solve it. By "idiosyncrasies", I mean that certain applications and features don't work well.

This seems to imply that flashing is an imperfect act - that >some< memory may not get written correctly. It's almost like the phone has putty for memory and the act of flashing is an imperfect art of trying to "impress" the phone with a new image, and sometimes you don't get a good imprint.

Are there no checksums? Does a phone actually run if some parts of memory are corrupt? I don't think so.

I think that if a flash doesn't work and some memory is corrupted, then the phone will freeze or spontaneously reboot. It's not going to operate 99.99% normally and have one application or function work slightly differently than everyone else's. Again, explain in technical terms how this can happen.


I'm pretty sure that a successful flash is pretty much a 100% guarantee that all memory has been copied to the phone exactly the same for all users with the same model of phone+radio. I don't think flashing a 2nd time does anything different. What I think happens is that the user tries a different set of actions after flashing the 2nd time, and possibly avoids creating the same problems experienced originally.

I also think that people are using the "If you have a problem, reflash or hard reset it several times" advice in the same way we tell non-geeks "reset your PC", ie. as a first step to troubleshooting. But it's developing an unspoken idea among many users that phones have what I'll call "putty memory" and that reflashing and hard reseting multiple times will effect the outcome.

I have never hard reset more than once on my device, as I have never understood why doing muliple hard resets would make any difference. The few people I know who do it more than once will readily admit that they do it probably as much because it makes them feel better about the process as much as any actual knowledge of what it does.

As for the "bad flash" issue, more likely what people are experiencing is either a download that has been corrupted (I myself have experienced that downloading the file again and flashing the new file can fix odd and random issues i'm having with the phone). This is only related to issues that are existent immediately after flashing. Problems that crop eventually are most likely caused by software incompatibility or some other issue unrelated to the rom, but rather generated over time being used.

Typically I find that flashing an OEM rom is a lot more effective that any of the other rumored cures for issues in the flashing process. I honestly couldn't tell you what the difference it makes is; however, I do know that on occasion it does make a difference. My personal guess is that it has something to do with the files being signifcantly larger and literally overwriting more information; however, I have no technical explaination for why it works. That being said I have flashed several hundred roms and I know that it does work.

Jaime Méndez
30th July 2009, 04:10 PM
If your device performs a hard reset after flashing there is no way a second hard reset would change things.:cool:

I advice people to wait for full moon if they believe several flashings and several hard resetings help their devices to perform better. That extra cosmic energy might help more during flashing or reseting process:p or why don't you consult The Oracle to tell you what is best for your particular device;)

scilor
30th July 2009, 04:26 PM
A hard reset must "hard reset" the device equally(same device/same rom) if it wouldnt the device must have a hardware damage

DatDereX1
30th July 2009, 10:18 PM
Someones believe that there is an internal mechanism which is able to remember how many times of hard resets you have performed. Then, some different actions (more complete reset?) may be taken every like 3 straight hard resets. But we don't know whether this kind of mechanism exists except microsoft and OEMs.
we do know that this kind of mechanism does not exist because there would be no reason to have it.