Where is Bengalih? (Answer In Last Post)

kipmast · May 16, 2008

Hi, I finally got around to upgrading MSVC. I loaded your cab and I still notice that It will not wake up the Kaiser. If I manually bring the phone out of sleep mode it then announces any new messages fine. Frustrating... It works great on all my other WM6 devices!!

Also I figure if anyone will know it is you: Why wont MSVC also announce new Email from my windows live account??
Thanks again for all your help!

bengalih said:
Kip, you might want to try to upgrade to 1.6.19209 (see main thread) and see if that resolves your issues.

Unfortunately I don't use text messaging (don't have a plan for it) and have focused on getting announcements to work for calls ony.

Hopefully with all the information in this thread you and others can begin to investigate further. If you still have the problem after the 16.19209 upgrade let us know.

Also, can you try and count how many seconds (use a stopwatch if you can to be exact) it actually speaks before going silent? If you can perform a few tests and check to see if it always speaks for the same amount of time each time before going silent. Report that back too.

thanks

bengalih · May 16, 2008

kipmast said:
Hi, I finally got around to upgrading MSVC. I loaded your cab and I still notice that It will not wake up the Kaiser. If I manually bring the phone out of sleep mode it then announces any new messages fine. Frustrating... It works great on all my other WM6 devices!!

Also I figure if anyone will know it is you: Why wont MSVC also announce new Email from my windows live account??
Thanks again for all your help!

Kip, let me re-hash your issues to make sure I understand.

Issue #1:
When your phone is in sleep mode (as if you pressed the power key) then incoming announcements get cut off in the middle of announcing. When you then turn your phone on from sleep mode the announcements finish. You don't have these issues if your phone is awake.

Is this correct? Please also detail the following:

Is this all announcements? E-mail, TXT, phonecalls?
When your phone is in sleep mode and gets an announcement does it wake up? Or is the screen still off? How long can you wait until you press the button to bring it out of sleep? Will it still announce the end of the messages from like an hour ago?
Is the problem present when announcing to the speaker, a BT headset, or both?

Issue #2:

MSVC won't issue incoming announcements for your windows live account.

Do you have any other e-mail accounts set up that announcements work for?
Do you have incoming announcement checked off under settings for e-mail? Remember incoming announcements are turned on for each category, not as a whole.
What version of Windows Live are you running?

I actually haven't tested incoming announcements for e-mail, but I have a hotmail account so I will set it up and test on my phone as well.

Let me know the answers.

kipmast · May 16, 2008

Issue#1: that is correct. This includes all MSVC announcements such as SMS & POP3 Email. The phone wakes fine for a voice call. No issues at all if phone is awake.

Problem occurs in both modes (bluetooth headset/device speaker) I have tried all variations in MSVC setup.

Issue#2:I know windows live doesn't announce like POP3 accounts do, just did not understand why that was true. Im using version 10.6.0031.2600

UPDATE:After more tests I'm narrowing this down to my POP3 account(?). It's not even waking from sleep mode to give me my standard device notification!! Maybe MSVC is not the issue here..

bengalih said:
Kip, let me re-hash your issues to make sure I understand.

Issue #1:
When your phone is in sleep mode (as if you pressed the power key) then incoming announcements get cut off in the middle of announcing. When you then turn your phone on from sleep mode the announcements finish. You don't have these issues if your phone is awake.

Is this correct? Please also detail the following:

Is this all announcements? E-mail, TXT, phonecalls?

When your phone is in sleep mode and gets an announcement does it wake up? Or is the screen still off? How long can you wait until you press the button to bring it out of sleep? Will it still announce the end of the messages from like an hour ago?

Is the problem present when announcing to the speaker, a BT headset, or both?

Issue #2:

MSVC won't issue incoming announcements for your windows live account.

Do you have any other e-mail accounts set up that announcements work for?

Do you have incoming announcement checked off under settings for e-mail? Remember incoming announcements are turned on for each category, not as a whole.

What version of Windows Live are you running?

I actually haven't tested incoming announcements for e-mail, but I have a hotmail account so I will set it up and test on my phone as well.

Let me know the answers.

bengalih · May 16, 2008

kipmast said:
Issue#1: that is correct. This includes all MSVC announcements such as SMS & POP3 Email. The phone wakes fine for a voice call. No issues at all if phone is awake.

Problem occurs in both modes (bluetooth headset/device speaker) I have tried all variations in MSVC setup.

Issue#2:I know windows live doesn't announce like POP3 accounts do, just did not understand why that was true. Im using version 10.6.0031.2600

UPDATE:After more tests I'm narrowing this down to my POP3 account(?). It's not even waking from sleep mode to give me my standard device notification!! Maybe MSVC is not the issue here..

Ok. I will test these things on my end tomorrow. In the meantime keep digging since, as you say it may not be MSVC, but rather that is just one symptom.

kipmast · May 16, 2008

I think Im right in it not being a MSVC issue:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=332362

I spent the time to go thru all 21 pages! Man!! I found if I let my device go into sleep mode by itself it actually would bring it out of sleep mode to announce an incoming message. If I force it into sleep mode by using the power button it becomes very inconsistent (like the folks in the thread mention). I cant wait for the "Fabled" Rom update to come from HTC because I know this will take care of all the issue's that we currently experience with Kaiser, right?(Ha).

bengalih said:
Ok. I will test these things on my end tomorrow. In the meantime keep digging since, as you say it may not be MSVC, but rather that is just one symptom.

bengalih · May 16, 2008

kipmast said:
I think Im right in it not being a MSVC issue:
http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=332362

I spent the time to go thru all 21 pages! Man!! I found if I let my device go into sleep mode by itself it actually would bring it out of sleep mode to announce an incoming message. If I force it into sleep mode by using the power button it becomes very inconsistent (like the folks in the thread mention). I cant wait for the "Fabled" Rom update to come from HTC because I know this will take care of all the issue's that we currently experience with Kaiser, right?(Ha).

Heh...yeah..it might solve the problems, but I bet you'll find some new ones! I'm not going to bother testing with your config then since it seems unrelated. Score one for MSVC!

thx

kipmast · May 16, 2008

Hey one last question you might know, Is their any other program you know of that announces incoming Emails to try out?? I have not found anything so far in my searches.

bengalih said:
Heh...yeah..it might solve the problems, but I bet you'll find some new ones! I'm not going to bother testing with your config then since it seems unrelated. Score one for MSVC!

thx

boggsie · May 18, 2008

HTC Vogue / Sprint Touch
ROM: 3.02
MSVC Version: US PPC 1.6.19209
Bluetooth Headset: Jabra BT250
Description: I haven't run into any problems with MSVC -EXCEPT- the volume of announcements and confirmations is barely audible.

When making calls and Michelle confirms, I know what she is saying so I can make it out and confirm or cancel the call. However, when reading incoming messages or announcing incoming calls, it is barely audible.

I have tried any number of changes to AudioPara.csv and it doesn't seem that I am able to impact the volume of announcements with the settings in this file.

Finally: In call volume is great. I can hear callers and callers can hear me.

Thank you so much for the information in this thread.

Best regards,
-boggsie

bengalih · May 18, 2008

boggsie said:
HTC Vogue / Sprint Touch
ROM: 3.02
MSVC Version: US PPC 1.6.19209
Bluetooth Headset: Jabra BT250
Description: I haven't run into any problems with MSVC -EXCEPT- the volume of announcements and confirmations is barely audible.

When making calls and Michelle confirms, I know what she is saying so I can make it out and confirm or cancel the call. However, when reading incoming messages or announcing incoming calls, it is barely audible.
....

boggsie,

The only thing I have been able to find regarding adjusting the volume of announcments is the following registry location:

HKCU\Control Panel\Sound Categories\Voice Command1

There are two keys:
AttenutationCategory
InitVol

There are apparently different default setting based on your device (again this forum is meant for the Kaiser/Tilt, which you are not running). But, in general the values are generally around 1-4 for AttenuationCategory and 1-5 for InitVol.

Some older posts state that setting InitVol to 40 and AttenuationCategory to 1 provide the best results.

In my testing (on the Tilt) I have found the InitVol to do nothing. The AttenuationCategory definitely does something, it seems the lower the number the lower the voice. If I set it to 0 the announcements were very faint. Setting it higher made them higher, although I can't say that anything over 4 or 5 got any louder.

So, in my findings I would say set both of these to 5 (I have read some other posts that lead me to believe setting InitVol over 5 is pointless, in addition, the posts that recommend setting it to 40 don't specify if that is decimal or hex).

These keys definitely work...but possibly not on all devices, and possibly not since WM6 or maybe 6.1.

Most places say you don't need to reset after these changes, but on my phone I found that I definitely had to reset.

The only thing I can say is play around with these values and see what you get. Report back with your results.

good luck

btec1020 · May 21, 2008

Wow bro, what a great thread you have here. Answered all my Q's about MSVC. Now i'm trying the volume reg tweaks. Thanks & Cheers!

Vragor · May 21, 2008

I have read through the thread several times and searched but can't find any suggestions for making Dialing via MSVC work any better.

I have nearly 800 names in my contacts list. With that many, the odds of Voice Command picking out the right name is slim to none. On a different message board, the only suggestion I got was to delete all but the few names I actually call which seems silly.

I'd love to be able to tag the 20+ names that I routinely call and limit MSVC to searching only those few names. For that one feature, VoiceDial actually works better than MSVC. (Yes, I've tried saying "Start VoiceDial .pause. Fred" but it's long, annoying and fraught with failures).

Another solution I've considered but haven't figured out, is putting a shortcut in the programs directory. Since there are relatively few programs, the odds of finding the correct entry are higher. Plus I can rename the shortcut to anything I want (without screwing up the outlook entry).

I already do this for things like playlists. Since MSVC has no "Play Playlist XXXX" command, I solved it by making a shortcut in \windows\start menu\programs pointed to the playlist file. Now I can say "Start Motorcyle" to begin playing my motorcycle playlist.

I think I could solve this with some form of link to individual contacts and say "Start Joan Freemont" rather than "Call Joan Freemont"

bengalih · May 21, 2008

Vragor said:
....I have nearly 800 names in my contacts list. With that many, the odds of Voice Command picking out the right name is slim to none. On a different message board, the only suggestion I got was to delete all but the few names I actually call which seems silly.....I think I could solve this with some form of link to individual contacts and say "Start Joan Freemont" rather than "Call Joan Freemont"

I'm not aware of a way to create s shortcut to dial a contact, but if it exists i suppose that solution would work.

Even with 800 names I am surprised that MSVC wouldn't work sufficiently, assuming you are using full first and last names.

With only first name there would probably be some recognition errors, as some names would sound similar. But with both first and last names I would think the chances are quite slim. Sure there may be a "Nate Smith" and a "Tate Smith", and in situations like that it might be best to change "Nate" to "Nathan" or "Tate" to "Tatum." Using middle names may be another option.

Although I'm not sure it would work, read the tips about RejectionThreshold on page 2. Lowering the rejection threshold should mean that MSVC is abit more picky about what it thinks you are saying.

Another things to consider is your BT headset. Some are better than other and if you are not using a high quality one, you may want to upgrade.

Lastly, I can only think of accents or pronunciation. Try to enunciate the name as MSVC says it, not necessarily how you would say it. Punching consanants and stretching vowels may help.

Honestly I have never had a contact list of 800 people in my phone so I can't definitively say what should or should not work.

Finally, I found this tip from Microsoft:

Use the nickname field to improve recognition accuracy
You can name contacts with nicknames such as Home, Mom, or Dentist. After doing this, you can call by simply saying Call Home, etc. If you have a contact that you consistently cannot access, try adding a nick name that looks the way that you might pronounce it.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what they mean by the nickname field, as I don't see that field in PocketOutlook. If you know what that means however, maybe it will help.

bengalih · May 21, 2008

Vragor said:
...I already do this for things like playlists. Since MSVC has no "Play Playlist XXXX" command, I solved it by making a shortcut in \windows\start menu\programs pointed to the playlist file. Now I can say "Start Motorcyle" to begin playing my motorcycle playlist.
...

I just noticed this comment and am wondering if you are using your bluetooth headset while on a motorcycle?

I ride a bike myself and generally find it difficult to use even a high quality BT headset (helmet integrated or not) to the same quality.

The wind and noise on the bike are just too extreme for voice recognition to generally work adequately (even though you may be able to talk to the caller ok).

If indeed this is what you are doing, i would definitely look into the best BT headset you can afford.

Vragor · May 21, 2008

bengalih said:
I just noticed this comment and am wondering if you are using your bluetooth headset while on a motorcycle?

I ride a bike myself and generally find it difficult to use even a high quality BT headset (helmet integrated or not) to the same quality.

The wind and noise on the bike are just too extreme for voice recognition to generally work adequately (even though you may be able to talk to the caller ok).

If indeed this is what you are doing, i would definitely look into the best BT headset you can afford.

I use my phone in about 4 ways. Just standing there with no headset, I push the PTT and say the name clearly. It matches about one out of 4 times despite trying to match pronunciation and some fiddling with names. "Start Motorcycle" works flawlessly.

I also use a motorola 820 stereo headset at work (to drown out the various conversations). It matches a little bit better, but not much. "Start Motorcycle" works flawlessly.

I have a handsfree bluetooth setup in my car (motorola T605) and it matches more like 1 out of 6. I almost never get a match and hardly try anymore. "Start Motorcycle" works flawlessly.

I use the phone on my bike with an Autocom intercom system and a hacked up Jabra SP100 bluetooth setup. I've tried to dial a few times but have never gotten a match. I answer calls and can hear and speak fine. Even though I don't use stereo bluetooth on the bike, I have said "start motorcycle" and it works about 50% of the time. Autocom is a really good system.

Vragor · May 21, 2008

Use the nickname field to improve recognition accuracy
You can name contacts with nicknames such as Home, Mom, or Dentist. After doing this, you can call by simply saying Call Home, etc. If you have a contact that you consistently cannot access, try adding a nick name that looks the way that you might pronounce it.

I wonder if they are referring to the "File As" field. I can try it and see.

But with so many variations on so many sounds, I don't hold out much hope for any search that inclues all contacts. I have things like "Tri Lakes Trash Disposal" and "Swan Mountain Resort" to give a couple examples. There's just too much to match.

bengalih · May 21, 2008

Vragor said:
I wonder if they are referring to the "File As" field. I can try it and see.

But with so many variations on so many sounds, I don't hold out much hope for any search that inclues all contacts. I have things like "Tri Lakes Trash Disposal" and "Swan Mountain Resort" to give a couple examples. There's just too much to match.

It sounds like you have alot of entries with multiple words, not just "First, Last"
There is a registry entry in the following location:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Voice Command\Speed
The value is ComplexResponseSpeed

I find no information on this attribute concerning MSVC specifically, but the following information can be found regarding this attribute with microsoft's SAPI interface in general:

This indicates the amount of silence that the engine will look for before completing a recognition. This attribute is used when the recognition is ambiguous. For example, in the case of a CFG which has two sentences: 1) new game please and 2) new game, an ambiguous recognition would be "new game." This property's value must be greater than the ResponseSpeed value.

My default value is 1100 and I believe that is in millisecconds. I think the range is from 0 - 10,000 ms. It is possible that increasing this value may improve recognition on these multiple word entries.

Short of that, I don't see what else can help. I think that the file applex.dat is the lexicon of words that the recognizer uses. By creating your own lexicon you should be able to add phrases that would improve recognition. Unforunately, although I have done work with the SAPI API through scripting, I don't know how to create and compile a new lexicon.

Maybe there is a developer out there who could add more insight. I have a feeling that the lexicon format would be the same on a PC as it is on a PPC, as they both use SAPI 5.

t0mmyr · May 22, 2008

how do i make my phone ring aloud & vibrate but at the same time only announce caller in bt headset?

kgbyr3 · May 22, 2008

custom voice tags

Hi,
i was wondering if there is any way to make custom voice tags in this voice commander,
Many of my contacts are not in english and therefor the voice commander can't recognize them.

Can i record my oun tags for these?

Thanks

BenOggo · May 22, 2008

button on wired headset for voice command

thanks for the great article. What i miss, is some reference towards the button on the wired headset. I think nobody has managed to do it yet: get the button on the wired headset to trigger voice command. So some statement regarding this would be good in the article. However, if anybody did manage to do so, inform me.

bengalih · May 22, 2008

t0mmyr said:
how do i make my phone ring aloud & vibrate but at the same time only announce caller in bt headset?

If you read through the guide you will see that this is not possible.

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