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Donations on XDA: Good or Bad?
- Thread starter freeza
- Start date
Clicking my thanks button is like "donation" 4 me lol
edit: u like it now hehe
better now shrink that gigantic signature Virtuous image down to a reasonable size...wayyy too big man, one of the biggest and its frowned upon by senior mods and higher ups...
K
knowledge561
Guest
i mean not with the wayyyy too big comment but in general its rather large. trying to give a heads up as its one thing a senior mod mentioned at one point being an issue with some users and having to ask them to trim down their signature that takes up excessive space for what its displaying...
just trying to give a heads up as something might want to try to do as dont be surprised if someone down the road asks it to be minimized some...
if everyone had giant signatures then you start effecting page loads on here and such...only a few of the mod's have big sigs that I know of, but theirs typically have a bunch of info and links like directing to forum rules and such like that...
not trying to start a discussion on this though, just a heads up, fair warning...
J
JohnM
Guest
This thread has inspired me to change my signature for what is hopefully the better.
Thanks for opening my eyes.
Thanks for opening my eyes.
You forgot to add "If you like my work, donate! It's not needed but appreciated."
I think it is OK to ask for donations. If they do something you like then you can donate. Some deserve it more but you can decide for yourself.
pstevep
Retired Senior Mod / Inactive Recognized Themer
Thread cleaned.
Keep it on topic, watch the language please, and be respectful to each other.
Thanks and have a nice evening.
Keep it on topic, watch the language please, and be respectful to each other.
Thanks and have a nice evening.
I believe donations are good. People can say that many ROM developers are 'just using tools made by someone else and doesn't warrant a donation', but that's like saying a waiter(ess) doesn't deserve a tip because all they did was bring out food that someone else cooked.
I have a donation link because its not up to me to decide if something I've posted (roms, mods, themes, or advice) is worthy of a donation. That is up to the end user that uses what I've made/modded or benefits from my advice.
Anyone that thinks they're going to make a lot of money developing on xda, and only does it for this reason, will quickly find out that that isn't going to happen, and quit. Its a self-weeding system.
I do the things I do on xda because I like to help people and others have helped me in the past, so I'm paying it forward. But if someone feels that what I've done warrants a thanks or a donation, that is up to them. If they donate, I'll put it towards my next device, if no one donates, I'll just buy my own device myself so I can continue doing what I enjoy.
But someone having or not having a donation link isn't going to change my opinion of anyone. I've seen a few people in this thread alone say "hey freeza doesn't have a donation link, he's really cool"...why? Why does him not having a donation link make him cool?
What makes freeza a cool/good guy is his willingness to help others and share whatever projects he's worked on with the community. Not because he doesn't accept donations
I have a donation link because its not up to me to decide if something I've posted (roms, mods, themes, or advice) is worthy of a donation. That is up to the end user that uses what I've made/modded or benefits from my advice.
Anyone that thinks they're going to make a lot of money developing on xda, and only does it for this reason, will quickly find out that that isn't going to happen, and quit. Its a self-weeding system.
I do the things I do on xda because I like to help people and others have helped me in the past, so I'm paying it forward. But if someone feels that what I've done warrants a thanks or a donation, that is up to them. If they donate, I'll put it towards my next device, if no one donates, I'll just buy my own device myself so I can continue doing what I enjoy.
But someone having or not having a donation link isn't going to change my opinion of anyone. I've seen a few people in this thread alone say "hey freeza doesn't have a donation link, he's really cool"...why? Why does him not having a donation link make him cool?
What makes freeza a cool/good guy is his willingness to help others and share whatever projects he's worked on with the community. Not because he doesn't accept donations
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I agree, and I also agree with the unobtrusive donate button under your avatar.
I had the donation button in my sig up until a few days ago actually. But I edited a few things in my sig and I did away with it. I wouldn't really consider having a small button in your sig obtrusive, nor essentially asking for donations either.
Its been said a few times in the thread, that "the real people who deserve donations are people like dsixda, cyanogen, jesusfreak, etc. and while I don't disagree that they also deserve the thanks and donations, its also got to be taken into consideration, the level of Android that the given donator is on.
You or I may look at another evo 3d ROM and think, "nothing special about that, I could of made that, its just a tweak there and built in a kitchen". But to someone who has limited experience in Android modding may look at the same ROM and crap their pants because they don't have the knowledge or resources to do it themselves.
Personally, I didn't want to put up a donate link but I was requested by many members to add it so I finally did. Back then, it was very time consuming creating and then updating my themes for all of the nightly builds of cm7 in the old HTC Hero days so it was a way for people to thank me for my time and effort put in (this was back before the invention of the thanks button). I saved those donations and used them to upgrade to the Evo 4G and started themeing for HDPI devices. Now that my themes are all on the theme chooser I no longer have to keep up with updating them for new rom builds. So, if any new donations are received, I turn around and re-gift them to people whom I feel are more deserving than I am.
Here's my take on Donations...
What any one person chooses to do with his or her money is entirely up to them.
What any one person chooses to do with his or her signature/avatar is up to them as well. (So long as it stays within Forum Rules, but even then it's still up to them, they'll just get the ban hammer if they post something against the rules
)
I, currently as I'm posting this, have a Donation link in my signature, which I will probably remove now. The only reason it was put there was because people were asking for a link, I didn't have one, and I didn't know how to put the link in my avatar, (which I've figured out now) so I just created a quick link and threw it on there.
Now, the only reason I put it there was because people were asking for it. But in all seriousness, how can someone buy someone a beer or coffee around here if there isn't a link? So I had no issue putting it on there.
But, as to the issue on saying things like "Not necessary but welcome" or the like... I've said and can be quoted in multiple threads saying the same thing. The issue isn't the saying, it's the genuine feeling behind the saying. If you're sincere in that, then you truly do not care if anyone donates. You can write that all day, but if you don't truly feel that way, then you might as well just put up there "Give me money for doing this." I, personally, say what I mean... a man's word is only as good as he makes it to be. Everything I post is honest and truthful (to the best of my knowledge at least ) and I stick to my word.
Now, I, personally, have donated to those that have helped me on my path of development. I don't, however, expect anyone to donate to me though just because I might help them out with their development... Just being able to help someone is enough for me. But, if they want to donate, I'm not against it, and I'm not going to make it difficult to do so... They shouldn't get frustrated trying to do something nice, just trying to get a way to get the donation to me...
To me, I think more like sitting around a bar, I give someone some great advice on what they were having troubles with, they say "Hey, thanks a lot!" I'm turning to walk away and they stop me and Offer to buy me a drink. That's a donation.
Now, sitting at a restaurant, you get your food/drinks, you pay the bill, and what else? a Tip... While you're not paying for the food, and it's just a little more on top... That's NOT a donation. Tips are somewhat expected and how most waiter/waitresses make their money. Everyone knows that so there's even a general Percentage that is publicly "acceptable" to give. Or when the bagboy helps bring all your luggage to your room for you at a hotel... Also... not a donation. So when people start posting donation links in their threads or signature and make them big, or post things like, hey if I helped you, donate, or buy me a beer or whatever they have there, then they are the bagboy asking for money. There's the unspoken word there saying yeah, I helped you out, so you should pay me for it...
In my opinion, that's crossing the line. XDA is an open development community. If you're developing something for profits, I wish you the best of luck with it, but in my opinion, this isn't the place for that kind of thing...
What any one person chooses to do with his or her money is entirely up to them.
What any one person chooses to do with his or her signature/avatar is up to them as well. (So long as it stays within Forum Rules, but even then it's still up to them, they'll just get the ban hammer if they post something against the rules
)I, currently as I'm posting this, have a Donation link in my signature, which I will probably remove now. The only reason it was put there was because people were asking for a link, I didn't have one, and I didn't know how to put the link in my avatar, (which I've figured out now) so I just created a quick link and threw it on there.
Now, the only reason I put it there was because people were asking for it. But in all seriousness, how can someone buy someone a beer or coffee around here if there isn't a link? So I had no issue putting it on there.
But, as to the issue on saying things like "Not necessary but welcome" or the like... I've said and can be quoted in multiple threads saying the same thing. The issue isn't the saying, it's the genuine feeling behind the saying. If you're sincere in that, then you truly do not care if anyone donates. You can write that all day, but if you don't truly feel that way, then you might as well just put up there "Give me money for doing this." I, personally, say what I mean... a man's word is only as good as he makes it to be. Everything I post is honest and truthful (to the best of my knowledge at least
) and I stick to my word.Now, I, personally, have donated to those that have helped me on my path of development. I don't, however, expect anyone to donate to me though just because I might help them out with their development... Just being able to help someone is enough for me. But, if they want to donate, I'm not against it, and I'm not going to make it difficult to do so... They shouldn't get frustrated trying to do something nice, just trying to get a way to get the donation to me...
To me, I think more like sitting around a bar, I give someone some great advice on what they were having troubles with, they say "Hey, thanks a lot!" I'm turning to walk away and they stop me and Offer to buy me a drink. That's a donation.
Now, sitting at a restaurant, you get your food/drinks, you pay the bill, and what else? a Tip... While you're not paying for the food, and it's just a little more on top... That's NOT a donation. Tips are somewhat expected and how most waiter/waitresses make their money. Everyone knows that so there's even a general Percentage that is publicly "acceptable" to give. Or when the bagboy helps bring all your luggage to your room for you at a hotel... Also... not a donation. So when people start posting donation links in their threads or signature and make them big, or post things like, hey if I helped you, donate, or buy me a beer or whatever they have there, then they are the bagboy asking for money. There's the unspoken word there saying yeah, I helped you out, so you should pay me for it...
In my opinion, that's crossing the line. XDA is an open development community. If you're developing something for profits, I wish you the best of luck with it, but in my opinion, this isn't the place for that kind of thing...
Here's my take on Donations...
What any one person chooses to do with his or her money is entirely up to them.
What any one person chooses to do with his or her signature/avatar is up to them as well. (So long as it stays within Forum Rules, but even then it's still up to them, they'll just get the ban hammer if they post something against the rules
I, currently as I'm posting this, have a Donation link in my signature, which I will probably remove now. The only reason it was put there was because people were asking for a link, I didn't have one, and I didn't know how to put the link in my avatar, (which I've figured out now) so I just created a quick link and threw it on there.
Now, the only reason I put it there was because people were asking for it. But in all seriousness, how can someone buy someone a beer or coffee around here if there isn't a link? So I had no issue putting it on there.
But, as to the issue on saying things like "Not necessary but welcome" or the like... I've said and can be quoted in multiple threads saying the same thing. The issue isn't the saying, it's the genuine feeling behind the saying. If you're sincere in that, then you truly do not care if anyone donates. You can write that all day, but if you don't truly feel that way, then you might as well just put up there "Give me money for doing this." I, personally, say what I mean... a man's word is only as good as he makes it to be. Everything I post is honest and truthful (to the best of my knowledge at least
Now, I, personally, have donated to those that have helped me on my path of development. I don't, however, expect anyone to donate to me though just because I might help them out with their development... Just being able to help someone is enough for me. But, if they want to donate, I'm not against it, and I'm not going to make it difficult to do so... They shouldn't get frustrated trying to do something nice, just trying to get a way to get the donation to me...
To me, I think more like sitting around a bar, I give someone some great advice on what they were having troubles with, they say "Hey, thanks a lot!" I'm turning to walk away and they stop me and Offer to buy me a drink. That's a donation.
Now, sitting at a restaurant, you get your food/drinks, you pay the bill, and what else? a Tip... While you're not paying for the food, and it's just a little more on top... That's NOT a donation. Tips are somewhat expected and how most waiter/waitresses make their money. Everyone knows that so there's even a general Percentage that is publicly "acceptable" to give. Or when the bagboy helps bring all your luggage to your room for you at a hotel... Also... not a donation. So when people start posting donation links in their threads or signature and make them big, or post things like, hey if I helped you, donate, or buy me a beer or whatever they have there, then they are the bagboy asking for money. There's the unspoken word there saying yeah, I helped you out, so you should pay me for it...
In my opinion, that's crossing the line. XDA is an open development community. If you're developing something for profits, I wish you the best of luck with it, but in my opinion, this isn't the place for that kind of thing...
You, sir. Are absolutely awesome. I love the passion in making things. I appreciate you working with me on my software (which, for the uninformed, is based on Unknownforce's).
I have you to thank for a few reasons:
1. For figuring out the final key to downgrading the HTC EVO 3D (obvious)
2. For getting me involved in Android (even if it is just a start)
3. And supporting me in my work.
I actually feel kind of guilty for having a donate button up now.
But, to make it known, I am doing my thing for the love of it -- not for some petty cash. It feels great to be a part of such a great community of people.
When I get a chance, I do owe you something. I can't afford a lot, but still.
Thank you again,
~co~
You, sir. Are absolutely awesome. I love the passion in making things. I appreciate you working with me on my software (which, for the uninformed, is based on Unknownforce's).
I have you to thank for a few reasons:
1. For figuring out the final key to downgrading the HTC EVO 3D (obvious)
2. For getting me involved in Android (even if it is just a start)
3. And supporting me in my work.
I actually feel kind of guilty for having a donate button up now.
But, to make it known, I am doing my thing for the love of it -- not for some petty cash. It feels great to be a part of such a great community of people.
When I get a chance, I do owe you something. I can't afford a lot, but still.
Thank you again,
~co~
You helped me out a lot as well, It makes it nice and easy when you only have to download one thing and boot to it and have it all on screen real nicely laid out. So I consider it more of a team effort here. I could have made it a lot easier by creating the cd, but you did such a nice job with it, It wouldn't have been worth my time. Plus, as most noticed at the initial release of the downgrade, I tend to jump the gun on things, missing steps and leaving things out... Anyone following the downgrade thread from it's infancy can tell you that. So I'd end up screwing it up somehow, and release it too soon again. lol
So thanks go right back at you for your help as well. :beer:
That's a really bad analogy. Of course the waiter doesn't deserve a tip, why on earth would you give extra money to someone who is already getting paid to do their job?
Sent via carrier pigeon
K
knowledge561
Guest
In the end, it's not up to us. If someone wants to donate, let them donate. If someone doesn't, then they don't. If someone asks, then it's whatever. It doesn't affect the rest our lives.
I believe that donations are good in most cases. I personally have a little donate button down there in my sig, but I only put it up after I spent months porting sense and other roms to the nexus s. I didn't start developing for the money; I do it because I love messing with phones. Having someone buy me a coffee every once in awhile is a huge mood booster, and is also super motivational. It lets me know that somebody really enjoys my work.
In the end, its all up to the person donating. If I find a rom/mod that really makes me enjoy my phone, I wouldn't mind buying the dev a coffee/beer/ice cream.
In the end, its all up to the person donating. If I find a rom/mod that really makes me enjoy my phone, I wouldn't mind buying the dev a coffee/beer/ice cream.
Not sure if you're serious, and I'm unaware of how things work in the UK, but in America, waiters and waitresses get paid very low, because they'll 'make up for the difference' in tips. The average tip well range from 10%-20% of the total bill, but obviously you're welcome to leave as much as you'd like based on their quality of work.
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24Let me start off by saying donations are definitely a good thing. However, the nature of donations going on on XDA has got me thinking about a few things:
Do you think too many people want and/or expect donations for little things or things that don't really bring much to the table? Disregard the part at the bottom of their post that makes a lot of people seem righteous "Donations are not required, but are appreciated" something along those lines. Lines like that are what probably make people go "aww" or "wow, this person is really cool" But is it a subliminal tug at your heart strings on purpose? I have always been the kind of person that requires no donations because I don't consider myself bringing nothing really new to the table. More along the lines of bringing alternatives to things that are already on the table.
Most of us would do the things we're doing regardless, so why would you want money for it? I know a ton of people are going to rely on the "I never asked for money" stance, but the fact is, you kinda DO ask for money when donation links are plastered all over your topic.
Take for example someone who truly wanted to dive in and understand how modding Android files worked, how to make a ROM, how to theme a ROM. That person would do those things and probably push out something to the public even IF donations weren't accepted on XDA. In other words, true passion would yield community projects anyway, so why pretend like the donations are to "continue this project" when everyone knows you would continue it anyway? It's not like the people are doing these ROM projects just to get money, or are they? Now, I have seen more and more people wanting donations for slightly modifying things that aren't even open source software, like modifying proprietary HTC/Samsung/Motorola/etc files. Is this fair? Where does the line get drawn between giving donations for someone who truly is developing, and someone who is simply modifying?
I feel that teams like CyanogenMod, TeamWin, people who bring things to our phones that aren't otherwise available such as Beats, xLoud engine, etc. are the ones that truly deserve our money because they are the ones who raise the bar, bring exceptional software, software modifications, and new things to the table. So why then, does someone who downloaded a kitchen made by dsixda, smali/baksmali made by jesusfreke, various tools made by other people, and take information freely available on the internet written by other people expect, want, or even secretly want donations?
Chad Goodman is a perfect example of someone who truly does warrant having donations sent his way, but instead is satisfied with a mere thanks and appreciation from the community for his kernel development.
What are your thoughts on donating to people for something like a ROM that was for the most part completed by HTC? I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later people started expecting donations for giving out information on upcoming phones. There are a ton of true developers that aren't "in your face" and are more behind the scenes that never really get recognized for their brilliance that should deserve our donations, thanks, and appreciation, but in the mix of so many 'developers' they seem to go forgotten.
I learn things for my own satisfaction and to make my phone better, and if I feel like anything I have done to my device can benefit the community that a lot of it I learned from, then I will most certainly share it without any financial compensation direct or indirect. I for one will never accept donations from the community I share things with that I would do for myself anyway, unless I feel that I truly am helping to raise the bar nor will I make it feel like their donation is what drives my continued support on a project, because let's face it- if a donation is what drives you to learn more and share with the public, you probably don't deserve the donation to begin with.5Instead of posting a long message, which I actually had typed up, I would rather say this:
People like newtoroot and twistedumbrella deserve donations. Why?
-newt fixed data and Wi-Fi on Sense 4.0; something No other developer has done
-twisted has been working tirelessly on things like camera and USB storage for ICS ROMs. He is attempting to make something work from nothing.
Most people that develop do NOT deserve donations. Why?
-Almost every single ROM that is released is "optimized"
-Almost every single ROM that is released has "battery tweaks"
-Almost every single ROM that is released has "speed tweaks"
-Almost every single ROM that is released includes the above and is themed.
I personally believe that the line to draw is whether something is being created or not. I don't like the term "cut-and-paste" developers, but for a lot of people, I would say that it is applicable. I understand that everyone wants their shot at fame, and that's fine. Post all of the work that you want. I just think that those works won't be able to set themselves apart from the work that makes Android special. Like:
-The CyanogenMod project
-MIUI
-Sense 4.0 development on a phone that will never get Sense 4.0
Those are the works that deserve donations, in my opinion. CM has to maintain build servers for the myriad of devices they support; MIUI is a port from a foreign language ROM that provides an experience unlike no other on Android, and it is a massive undertaking; and the Sense 4.0 development has required new devices to be purchased, and new methods of making things work to be devised.
I think that if you are handed something where everything works and you decide to add your own enhancements for it, that you do not deserve money for that. HTC releases an update where everything works, and people add more features that may break those things. The people working on those aren't making any magic happening. I do not mean to offend anyone, but in my experience with most ROMs, well.. the experience hasn't been too different. Except for the first time I used CyanogenMod. Or the first time I used MIUI. Or the first time I used Sense 3.0 on my OG Evo. Or just the other day, when I was able to use Sense 4.0 on my Evo 3D. I've used Warm, Eternity, ViperROM, MeanROM, Android Revolution, CleanROM, SupraROM.. many, many ROMs. But I have never felt any sort of spark from them. I've enjoyed them, and used them plenty, but I haven't stopped and looked at my phone and said, "Wow, this is something special."
I think that it is perfectly okay to provide a donation link, no matter who you are. If you are going to require donations to "keep working", well, I think that is wrong, but that is your decision. If you need money in order to work on these phones, you should consider finding a profession in this stuff. If you are working on ROMs and you need money in order to do it, then you shouldn't be doing it. This isn't supposed to be about making a living (if you want to do that, make apps). It's about being part of a community that shares.
If you want money, that's fine. I want money. Who doesn't want money? It'd be neat to be able to make a little money on the side sharing work. But don't release something to the community EXPECTING to be paid for it. That's not what this is about.
If you want to donate, that's fine too. It's your money. Just think about where you're putting it. If you truly believe that someone deserves the money, then give it to them. Just don't expect your money to mean much in the long run.4Here's my take on Donations...
What any one person chooses to do with his or her money is entirely up to them.
What any one person chooses to do with his or her signature/avatar is up to them as well. (So long as it stays within Forum Rules, but even then it's still up to them, they'll just get the ban hammer if they post something against the rules )
I, currently as I'm posting this, have a Donation link in my signature, which I will probably remove now. The only reason it was put there was because people were asking for a link, I didn't have one, and I didn't know how to put the link in my avatar, (which I've figured out now) so I just created a quick link and threw it on there.
Now, the only reason I put it there was because people were asking for it. But in all seriousness, how can someone buy someone a beer or coffee around here if there isn't a link? So I had no issue putting it on there.
But, as to the issue on saying things like "Not necessary but welcome" or the like... I've said and can be quoted in multiple threads saying the same thing. The issue isn't the saying, it's the genuine feeling behind the saying. If you're sincere in that, then you truly do not care if anyone donates. You can write that all day, but if you don't truly feel that way, then you might as well just put up there "Give me money for doing this." I, personally, say what I mean... a man's word is only as good as he makes it to be. Everything I post is honest and truthful (to the best of my knowledge at least ) and I stick to my word.
Now, I, personally, have donated to those that have helped me on my path of development. I don't, however, expect anyone to donate to me though just because I might help them out with their development... Just being able to help someone is enough for me. But, if they want to donate, I'm not against it, and I'm not going to make it difficult to do so... They shouldn't get frustrated trying to do something nice, just trying to get a way to get the donation to me...
To me, I think more like sitting around a bar, I give someone some great advice on what they were having troubles with, they say "Hey, thanks a lot!" I'm turning to walk away and they stop me and Offer to buy me a drink. That's a donation.
Now, sitting at a restaurant, you get your food/drinks, you pay the bill, and what else? a Tip... While you're not paying for the food, and it's just a little more on top... That's NOT a donation. Tips are somewhat expected and how most waiter/waitresses make their money. Everyone knows that so there's even a general Percentage that is publicly "acceptable" to give. Or when the bagboy helps bring all your luggage to your room for you at a hotel... Also... not a donation. So when people start posting donation links in their threads or signature and make them big, or post things like, hey if I helped you, donate, or buy me a beer or whatever they have there, then they are the bagboy asking for money. There's the unspoken word there saying yeah, I helped you out, so you should pay me for it...
In my opinion, that's crossing the line. XDA is an open development community. If you're developing something for profits, I wish you the best of luck with it, but in my opinion, this isn't the place for that kind of thing...3I believe donations are good. People can say that many ROM developers are 'just using tools made by someone else and doesn't warrant a donation', but that's like saying a waiter(ess) doesn't deserve a tip because all they did was bring out food that someone else cooked.
I have a donation link because its not up to me to decide if something I've posted (roms, mods, themes, or advice) is worthy of a donation. That is up to the end user that uses what I've made/modded or benefits from my advice.
Anyone that thinks they're going to make a lot of money developing on xda, and only does it for this reason, will quickly find out that that isn't going to happen, and quit. Its a self-weeding system.
I do the things I do on xda because I like to help people and others have helped me in the past, so I'm paying it forward. But if someone feels that what I've done warrants a thanks or a donation, that is up to them. If they donate, I'll put it towards my next device, if no one donates, I'll just buy my own device myself so I can continue doing what I enjoy.
But someone having or not having a donation link isn't going to change my opinion of anyone. I've seen a few people in this thread alone say "hey freeza doesn't have a donation link, he's really cool"...why? Why does him not having a donation link make him cool?
What makes freeza a cool/good guy is his willingness to help others and share whatever projects he's worked on with the community. Not because he doesn't accept donations2
Definitely not unstable in any way. This topic is only meant to spark discussion, not take away from developers. I really am looking for a reason that so many people put donation links up all over the place if they do it for the love of learning; with the exception of developers.
