nVidia Grid on Nexus 7

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PVL_93_RU

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Apr 20, 2012
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Shield is actually kinda strange thing to me... It's like they took a 5" tablet and attached an X360 controller to it, nothing special
 

rememe

Senior Member
Aug 5, 2011
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Guys, so what is result of yours talking, will be Nvidia grid avilable on nexus 7? When it will be released?
 

PVL_93_RU

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Apr 20, 2012
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Guys, so what is result of yours talking, will be Nvidia grid avilable on nexus 7? When it will be released?

Grid should work on a device eqipped with a Tegra processor, and since N7 has Tegra 3 - we should be able to use Grid but first we need somebody with Tegra 4 to share the .apk file of Grid application.

So for now - we wait
 

player911

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I don't think Shield will really have a problem doing this. I mean it is basically just Remote Desktop on the client end. The Tegra 3 (or 2) should be plenty powerful for an NVIDIA designed app. The WHOLE point to this type of game streaming is so the client can play games that far exceed the specs of the client.

Eventually all PC's will be "nodes" with bare basic hardware to just get you online. All your apps and games will be streamed like this. Basically it will solve the need to constantly upgrade your PC every year. Just like these little $49 Android PC's that can remote desktop into a server desktop and work from there. These Servers are privatized on huge mainframes and power is allocated per need.

I can see companies having different tiers for different level of users such as:

"Personal" for just basic video streaming/internet surfing and light office work.
"Professional" would offer more resources that allow heavy Video streaming 1080p+ (or whatever is in the future)
"Business" for someone who needs a little more umph and exchange/VPN/static IP connectivity.
"Gamer" would be someone that needs lots of graphical horsepower and storage.

All of these would have different levels of bandwidth supplied per month and system resources (1 CPU/1 GPU/4gb/500gb vs 8 CPU/16GPU/16gb/1.5tb)

Lots of businesses today use these dumb terminals to save money. All this technology is, is a "faster" remote desktop that is almost instantaneous. I can't see any recent high end android device not being compatible. I would assume that the Tegra 4 will be their focus and slowly working in the older generations... eventually opening up to others.
 

PVL_93_RU

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Apr 20, 2012
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Eventually all PC's will be "nodes" with bare basic hardware to just get you online. All your apps and games will be streamed like this. Basically it will solve the need to constantly upgrade your PC every year. Just like these little $49 Android PC's that can remote desktop into a server desktop and work from there. These Servers are privatized on huge mainframes and power is allocated per need.

You know, I never thought of the PC gaming evolutioning into something like this, but it's pretty obvious that this is gonna be the way to go.

And the consoles will just be co-exsiting how they are now
 

player911

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You know, I never thought of the PC gaming evolutioning into something like this, but it's pretty obvious that this is gonna be the way to go.

And the consoles will just be co-exsiting how they are now

I think consoles will go away too. Why buy a beefy piece of hardware for hundreds when you can buy a $49 TV stick and do this remote gaming?

Developers love this because there is no physical medium. No second hand sales. No manufacturing costs. No piracy. Just licenses. $50 a month gets you all you can eat gaming with any game in their library.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Premium HD app
 

PVL_93_RU

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Which makes it 600$ a year from one user.. Hmm

I'm not really sure whether the consoles will fade away or not, since for streaming services you either need a console like OnLive offered or get your PC up and running every time you want to use the servuce. So either way you end up with a console lol
 

SimoxTav

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With several devices becoming "smart" (TV, fridges, ovens etc...), the opportunity to change the market with this technology is at hand IMHO. Don't forget that today we still have "software exclusives" for specified platforms, that constrain the users to purchase a specific hardware.
This would simply override the problem (p.e. I decide to buy a specific console A, but a game that I would really like to play is on the console B; I purchase a service to stream it on my device (paying it as A SERVICE, not as A PRODUCT)).

To me, the developers could also benefit by the streaming services developing programs just for one "hardware" and gaining incomes thanks to a "subscription plan" instead of royalties "per sold" copy (dependent on the console, the availability of a distributor, etc).

Paying as a service would also grant a benefit for users on games that have a ridiculous longevity, with an option to "rent" it for a limited time and, if the interest fades quickly, you surely spent less than buying a physical copy of the same game.

On the other hand, while it would completely kill the piracy, it would also kill the market of used products (that is again a plus for the gaming industry but not for the user).
 

PVL_93_RU

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Apr 20, 2012
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With several devices becoming "smart" (TV, fridges, ovens etc...), the opportunity to change the market with this technology is at hand IMHO. Don't forget that today we still have "software exclusives" for specified platforms, that constrain the users to purchase a specific hardware.
This would simply override the problem (p.e. I decide to buy a specific console A, but a game that I would really like to play is on the console B; I purchase a service to stream it on my device (paying it as A SERVICE, not as A PRODUCT)).

To me, the developers could also benefit by the streaming services developing programs just for one "hardware" and gaining incomes thanks to a "subscription plan" instead of royalties "per sold" copy (dependent on the console, the availability of a distributor, etc).

Paying as a service would also grant a benefit for users on games that have a ridiculous longevity, with an option to "rent" it for a limited time and, if the interest fades quickly, you surely spent less than buying a physical copy of the same game.

On the other hand, while it would completely kill the piracy, it would also kill the market of used products (that is again a plus for the gaming industry but not for the user).
I see your point
But the phrase "opportunity to change the market" (in my understanding) means that thr whole industry will turn into streaming-based only
So let me explain why it's not gonna happen

I think that streaming service can only and ONLY be applied to the PC gaming segment

If such a thing is applied to the console segment - imagine how much money can developers actually earn by spreading their games in streaming service online shops (let's call them like this for now)?

Today it costs millions of dollars to develop a game, especially when you do it for several platforms, which means that you gotta spend money and resources to develop and test the game on each announced platform

So, even with a streaming service, which means a single platform, the money go to the service holder, who pays some % of the income to the devs

The downside of it is that when a player pays 50$ a month (which includes unlimited access to the games library) - the devs literally get nothing from that

Today the Gaikai service (and Nvidia Grid) exist only because devs can afford to spread their games in these service, since they gain profit from the sales on other platforms

So I see several main downsides of the situation when streaming services take over the industry:

1. It creates a single platform, which means that the user has no choice, just a straight-on "subscribe and play scheme"
2. A single platform on the market means that there will be no competition, except for maybe the service holders, but it will just tend to lower the prices and maybe increase perfomances
3. Main rule of ANY market is there's GOTTA be competition. No competition = no progress = high chance of a fatigueness
4. Changing the market into streaming-based will only create chaos and it literally means an end to exclusives and such, no uniqueness
5. Since today most companies release their games on several platforms - it means that the devs can cover most of the money they spent on actually developing the game, and that means BIG money since the platforms have big audiences (and they only tend to increase more and more) which literally equals to 60$ per a game X number of platforms X number of units sold (mostly the numbers are more or less equal)
And 6. Since the devs wouldn't get much $$$ from spreading their games in a single streaming service - it would only lead to creation of several services from each of the big companies
I bet that today's Steam vs Origin example would be the best. We don't want or need that to happen with each gaming company, right?

Wow, sorry for the long post:D

P.S. Sorry for possible typos - typed this on my N7 lol
 

SimoxTav

Senior Member
Nov 27, 2012
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I see your point
But the phrase "opportunity to change the market" (in my understanding) means that thr whole industry will turn into streaming-based only
So let me explain why it's not gonna happen

I think that streaming service can only and ONLY be applied to the PC gaming segment

If such a thing is applied to the console segment - imagine how much money can developers actually earn by spreading their games in streaming service online shops (let's call them like this for now)?

Today it costs millions of dollars to develop a game, especially when you do it for several platforms, which means that you gotta spend money and resources to develop and test the game on each announced platform

So, even with a streaming service, which means a single platform, the money go to the service holder, who pays some % of the income to the devs

The downside of it is that when a player pays 50$ a month (which includes unlimited access to the games library) - the devs literally get nothing from that

Today the Gaikai service (and Nvidia Grid) exist only because devs can afford to spread their games in these service, since they gain profit from the sales on other platforms

So I see several main downsides of the situation when streaming services take over the industry:

1. It creates a single platform, which means that the user has no choice, just a straight-on "subscribe and play scheme"
2. A single platform on the market means that there will be no competition, except for maybe the service holders, but it will just tend to lower the prices and maybe increase perfomances
3. Main rule of ANY market is there's GOTTA be competition. No competition = no progress = high chance of a fatigueness
4. Changing the market into streaming-based will only create chaos and it literally means an end to exclusives and such, no uniqueness
5. Since today most companies release their games on several platforms - it means that the devs can cover most of the money they spent on actually developing the game, and that means BIG money since the platforms have big audiences (and they only tend to increase more and more) which literally equals to 60$ per a game X number of platforms X number of units sold (mostly the numbers are more or less equal)
And 6. Since the devs wouldn't get much $$$ from spreading their games in a single streaming service - it would only lead to creation of several services from each of the big companies
I bet that today's Steam vs Origin example would be the best. We don't want or need that to happen with each gaming company, right?

Wow, sorry for the long post:D

P.S. Sorry for possible typos - typed this on my N7 lol

I now see your point too :D And I agree about the major plus is on the PC market that is related to the opportunity to develop a product in a "console way" (one hardware to run on) and then stream to several peripherals (that IMHO is something similar to what Valve is trying to do). However, if those streaming services are provided side by side with the "standard" distribution market (the service should be provided by manufacturers themselves), it could works quite well. (like the digital delivery grew alongside with boxed market). There is no problem if I have to install 2 different "clients" on my device rather than one (it's always better than have 2 devices IMHO). The other solution could be to make each console a "home server" able to stream, avoiding in this way the centralized infrastructure but relying on personal home bandwidth. Something like a "Social feature" like was present in the Nintendo DS with the streaming of the game on another device with a single cartridge to enable specific multiplayer modes.
 
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PVL_93_RU

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Apr 20, 2012
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Yes, exactly. That's literally the only possible way that streaming services could be applied to the console market - they would coexist as downloadable clients (from the online shop like PlayStation Store or whatever) along with already established market of boxed games (so we're talking GAME, GameStop, BestBuy, etc.) and digital versions (Steam, PS Store, Xbox Live Marketplace, DSiWare...)

But the thing is that streaming service WILL take over the PC gaming market as we know it today.

I think that this is the safest options for developers - they'll still need to develop a PC port, but since they will still sell the actual game on other platforms - they won't lose much money from porting the game over, since they can cover it with additional sales on consoles + digital versions and add-ons and such

That will probably attract much more developers to the PC gaming market, since they will be able to safely try and release a port of their game for the PC, unlike today when many companies just loose big sums of money after porting a game and nobody would buy it (since the piracy is very popular on PC gaming market) which would result in wasted $$$
 
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silentr0ck

Member
Nov 25, 2012
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2
I've seen a couple of videos showing around game streaming through OnLive with a Nexus 7 and I must admit that the concept looks very promising. I shall say that I was very excited when I started reading about the whole thing.

Sadly, internet connection in Mexico is very very crappy, so I don't expect to be able to play games like such on my country in a near future.
 

jb0ne

Senior Member
Dec 7, 2011
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Why would this require a high end Nvidia card on your desktop? You just need to be able to run the game and do the h264 compression - is it just a way for nvidia to get people to put their cards in the desktop?
I do have an N7 but I'm Radeon all the way, but I'd still love to be able to do this...
 

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    Splashtop?
    What's that?

    And is OnLive working with N7?

    I will semplify:

    Splashtop = Remote desktop gaming via LAN streaming YOUR OWN hardware (Google Play)

    Onlive (as you know) is the same thing of splashtop on the "internet" and is offered as a service with THEIR hardware (is currently in bankrupt due the expensive architecture, a technical problem solved by nVidia Grid with virtualization).

    nVidia Grid will be BOTH (for the LAN side supported directly via nVidia through their Geforce Experience Program and for the "Internet" side provided by third party like Playcast)

    For OnLive for N7 the device isn't officially supported, but IMHO it should work ;)
    1
    A couple of days ago, nVidia presented their new portable gaming device alongside one particular feature. The ability to stream PC games via cloud and from a nVidia powered PC with GFE (equipped with at least kepler Ge Force GTX 650) to any device able to have their Grid client.
    This is nothing more than the evolution of what Splashtop brought (with nVidia sponsorship) on CES 2012 (confirmed by nVidia Italy itself on Facebook).
    Now during the conference it was stated that the client would have reached every android device (not only Tegra ones nor Project shield) and in the next days some hands-on with different "non-shield" devices were recorded.

    Finally also the one recorded on Nexus 7 landed (cortesy of Droid-Life)

    here it is:


    I honestly think that if there will be the option to customize controls other than the only gamepad, the Nexus 7 could be even a better device that the shield itself for this kind of gaming (even if it lacks the Tegra 4 SoC). Furthermore it will surely be a great boost for android gaming in general (thanks to the direct support of nVidia and their money / partners- compared to the influence of Splashtop Inc.). The staff of the Tegra page on FB confirmed me that Grid (that I intend in its incarnation of both LAN (via GFE) / internet streaming (via third party partners)) will have a different timetable than Project Shield, so I think we'll have the opportunity to enjoy this feature sooner than the release of Shield (maybe at the same time with the announcement of the Nexus 7 successor @ Google I/O or even sooner with an open bea :laugh:)

    I used splashtop thd and I was able to play any game even just cause 2 just from streaming from my gaming computer. It worked perfectly fine on my N7 I don't see any reason why I would buy a device like this when I already own a device that can do the same thing.

    Sent from my LG-C729 using xda app-developers app
    1
    To me...YES!

    The question is - will Grid work on N7/N10/current top tablets?

    Or is it going to be Tegra 4-exclusive?

    Grid (for its "internet/cloud" side) for sure, was declared during the conference ((link, look from 0:24:00) and was also shown there (even if in a limited environment having the rack next to the devices and not "on the internet"). To see other devices running it there is the video in the opening post and several other hands on showing it running on N7, HTC X and LG Smart TVs.

    Grid (-or whatever it's called- for its "LAN" side, basically the evolution of Splashtop THD streamer) is currently promoted only on the Shield Project page but considering that is the same H.264 compressed stream that travel from a server to a client but in a local environment, if it can works on internet, why shouldn't work on local? If what Mr Huang said ("as long as you have a mobile processor able to manage h.264 you can run grid) is true, directly from nVidia or from someone that extract the APK, we'll easily have the client.
    On the server side everything is needed is a GeForce GPU (at least GTX650) and the GeForce Experience Program, so no particular gimmicks.

    Seeing Splashtop THD running smoothly on N7 is enough to state that the hardware is powerful enough to handle it (as long as we're speaking on internal screen (so 720p) and i'd say up to 1080p (even if Splashtop doesn't support on its THD version). Probably 4K screens and concurrent miracast streaming to both the devices will be an exclusive for the power of T4 (and with a very good wireless repeater i'd say), but without a video output option on the N7 is not our scenario at all :(
    1
    May I ask you to link the video you watched to see if the different framerate could be relevant to some particular environment?

    I watched this video, the official one from Splashtop YouTube channel:


    You can easily notice that even streaming a movie lacks the framerate compared to the original shown on the PC
    1
    IMO 30FPS is mostly enough, though for fast paced racing and fighting games 60FPS is a must. Especially for fightings.

    I believe that if we use a game with less graphics-heavy vicuals - then the stream should be pretty smooth, right?

    Like, let's say, games like Diablo II, StarCraft, WarCraft III and Trackmania/Trackmania: Sunrise should work pretty nice

    Yeah, but more than graphics visuals details, their fast pace gameplay is the worst for this kind of technology.


    However it seems that with grid the performance are clearly better