Looking to Learn

Patb8man · Feb 22, 2010

Hello I frequent the boards...actually on a daily basis. I dont post a lot as you can see...mainly because the posts are usually thoroughly explained and I usually dont have a lot of problems that I cant already find the answers to.

I want to thank everyone who contributes to the board. I currently have the HTC hero and I have installed all but 1 of the current available roms, I had the Touch Pro before and the Touch prior to that. I have uses custom roms for all so a huge thanks to all the devs.

My reason for posting is I want to learn how to develop myself eventually but for now I have a specific question about getting the most out of my rooted HTC hero. Darchstar posted this:

adb shell remount
adb push e2fsck /system/bin
adb shell
cd /system/bin
chmod a+x e2fsck
a2sd
reboot

Its to enable apps2sd. I want to get a little help of understanding how to apply it. I rooted my phone so I did a lot of edits in cmd promt...but for me it was just a matter of following instructions I want to learn what I am actually doing and how to fully take advantage of rooting my phone. I dont use terminal emulator or SU really for anything because I dont understand how to use them or even the full extent of what they can do. I know theres a wiki...but I really dont know what to search. As of now I have been having devs do everything for me to an extent. I use a kitchen which is pretty much automated and I have just been following instructions on the board.

I am pretty good with computers, i build them and fix them all the time for people...and with phones also. Im a tech in a cellphone store so you can gather I am a tinkerer. I am not looking to be told how to do things and just follow the instructions I want to know what I am doing, even though here I have never been steered wrong. I want to be educated.

I know this post is long winded and I would like to thank everyone in advance for any help offered.

illogic6 · Feb 22, 2010

Patb8man said:
Hello I frequent the boards...actually on a daily basis. I dont post a lot as you can see...mainly because the posts are usually thoroughly explained and I usually dont have a lot of problems that I cant already find the answers to.

I want to thank everyone who contributes to the board. I currently have the HTC hero and I have installed all but 1 of the current available roms, I had the Touch Pro before and the Touch prior to that. I have uses custom roms for all so a huge thanks to all the devs.

My reason for posting is I want to learn how to develop myself eventually but for now I have a specific question about getting the most out of my rooted HTC hero. Darchstar posted this:

adb shell remount
adb push e2fsck /system/bin
adb shell
cd /system/bin
chmod a+x e2fsck
a2sd
reboot

Its to enable apps2sd. I want to get a little help of understanding how to apply it. I rooted my phone so I did a lot of edits in cmd promt...but for me it was just a matter of following instructions I want to learn what I am actually doing and how to fully take advantage of rooting my phone. I dont use terminal emulator or SU really for anything because I dont understand how to use them or even the full extent of what they can do. I know theres a wiki...but I really dont know what to search. As of now I have been having devs do everything for me to an extent. I use a kitchen which is pretty much automated and I have just been following instructions on the board.

I am pretty good with computers, i build them and fix them all the time for people...and with phones also. Im a tech in a cellphone store so you can gather I am a tinkerer. I am not looking to be told how to do things and just follow the instructions I want to know what I am doing, even though here I have never been steered wrong. I want to be educated.

I know this post is long winded and I would like to thank everyone in advance for any help offered.

The best way to learn about this stuff is to bite the bullet and install a Linux distro on your computer. I've also took up teaching myself to code Java in my spare time which will help you understand Android a lot better.

Also: You need an EXT partition on your SD to enable apps2sd. Is that what you're asking?

Patb8man · Feb 22, 2010

Thanks. I do have an ext partition on my card and it I am currently using it with gumbo 1.5c bare. I was just thinking about installing 2.1 and before I did I wanted to make sure I could enable app2sd. I was just using it as an example. I just want to learn in general. Is linus distro a version of the os I would dual boot with or does it emulate in windows? Also how did you just start java? A google search and article research, book or are you in school?

Is_907 · Feb 22, 2010

Patb8man said:
My reason for posting is I want to learn how to develop myself eventually but for now I have a specific question about getting the most out of my rooted HTC hero. Darchstar posted this:

adb shell remount
adb push e2fsck /system/bin
adb shell
cd /system/bin
chmod a+x e2fsck
a2sd
reboot

Its to enable apps2sd. I want to get a little help of understanding how to apply it. I rooted my phone so I did a lot of edits in cmd promt...but for me it was just a matter of following instructions I want to learn what I am actually doing and how to fully take advantage of rooting my phone. I dont use terminal emulator or SU really for anything because I dont understand how to use them or even the full extent of what they can do. I know theres a wiki...but I really dont know what to search. As of now I have been having devs do everything for me to an extent. I use a kitchen which is pretty much automated and I have just been following instructions on the board.

Basically these commands are installing the e2fsck, a program that formats a partition in the ext2 file system, so that apps2sd can run.

Here is a breakdown:
adb shell remount --remount the file system of your phone so you can write a file to it
adb push e2fsck /system/bin --copy the file/program e2fsck to the directory /system/bin on the phone
adb shell --switch from your computer's shell (cmd) to control the shell environment of the phone
cd /system/bin --change directory to work in /system/bin
chmod a+x e2fsck --change the permissions of e2fsck so that you can actually execute (run) it
a2sd --run apps2sd (a2sd) so that it can set itself up (it will call on e2fsck)
reboot --reboot the phone.

Hope that's what you were looking for.

Is_907 · Feb 22, 2010

Patb8man said:
Thanks. I do have an ext partition on my card and it I am currently using it with gumbo 1.5c bare. I was just thinking about installing 2.1 and before I did I wanted to make sure I could enable app2sd. I was just using it as an example. I just want to learn in general. Is linus distro a version of the os I would dual boot with or does it emulate in windows? Also how did you just start java? A google search and article research, book or are you in school?

(Sorry for double posting, folks... timing...)

I would highly recommend that you dual boot or install Linux on a spare computer until you are comfortable with it. If you want, you could run VirtualBox to emulate another system (VM) and install Linux there.

Patb8man · Feb 22, 2010

Is_907 said:
Basically these commands are installing the e2fsck, a program that formats a partition in the ext2 file system, so that apps2sd can run.

Here is a breakdown:
adb shell remount --remount the file system of your phone so you can write a file to it
adb push e2fsck /system/bin --copy the file/program e2fsck to the directory /system/bin on the phone
adb shell --switch from your computer's shell (cmd) to control the shell environment of the phone
cd /system/bin --change directory to work in /system/bin
chmod a+x e2fsck --change the permissions of e2fsck so that you can actually execute (run) it
a2sd --run apps2sd (a2sd) so that it can set itself up (it will call on e2fsck)
reboot --reboot the phone.

Hope that's what you were looking for.

for the adb shell remount part when i hook the phone up to the computer w debugging on when I run a command prompt how do I get to the adb in the first place. I am not familiar with that to begin with. I know I had to edit it when I rooted my phone...but like I said I really didnt understand what I was doing it was just a matter of following instructions. Thank you for the detailed description of whats going on...thats where I want to be where I can just see that and decipher it.

5tr4t4 · Feb 22, 2010

Patb8man said:
Thanks. I do have an ext partition on my card and it I am currently using it with gumbo 1.5c bare. I was just thinking about installing 2.1 and before I did I wanted to make sure I could enable app2sd. I was just using it as an example. I just want to learn in general. Is linus distro a version of the os I would dual boot with or does it emulate in windows? Also how did you just start java? A google search and article research, book or are you in school?

Install Ubuntu Linux dual-boot, or short of that install VirtualBox or VMWare with Ubuntu running as a VM. You might also look at Wubi, a way to install Linux within Windows. I've never used it but it looks interesting.

Also, as with darch's post you mention, I'm no dev, learning as I go, but I use my Unix/Linux terminal chops MUCH more than java. Learn java if you want to write apps but if you want to help hack on ROM's, learn to use the shell. Android is Linux, after all.

As with anything, the best way to learn is to dive in.

thematrixkid17 · Feb 22, 2010

Patb8man said:
for the adb shell remount part when i hook the phone up to the computer w debugging on when I run a command prompt how do I get to the adb in the first place. I am not familiar with that to begin with. I know I had to edit it when I rooted my phone...but like I said I really didnt understand what I was doing it was just a matter of following instructions. Thank you for the detailed description of whats going on...thats where I want to be where I can just see that and decipher it.

adb is a utility that is in the tools folder of the android sdk, which you probably already have somewhere, because it is used to root the phone. Then you'll open up a command prompt, and navigate to the tools folder of the sdk. You'll 'navigate' using the 'cd' command. Once you're navigated the command prompt to the tools folder, you can run the adb program that is in it.

Edit: in general, it can be really helpful to know both DOS and UNIX commands, even if it's just the basic ones pertaining to copying, deleting, moving, renaming, etc. Here are two good cheat sheets: http://www.computerhope.com/overview.htm http://www.computerhope.com/unix/overview.htm

Is_907 · Feb 22, 2010

Yeah, just go Start > Run > cmd (or if you're on Vista/Win7 do Start > cmd > Enter)
I do this once I have cmd running:
cd D:\Downloads\android-sdk-windows\tools
D:
adb devices
adb remount

Patb8man · Feb 22, 2010

5tr4t4 said:
Install Ubuntu Linux dual-boot, or short of that install VirtualBox or VMWare with Ubuntu running as a VM. You might also look at Wubi, a way to install Linux within Windows. I've never used it but it looks interesting.

Also, as with darch's post you mention, I'm no dev, learning as I go, but I use my Unix/Linux terminal chops MUCH more than java. Learn java if you want to write apps but if you want to help hack on ROM's, learn to use the shell. Android is Linux, after all.

As with anything, the best way to learn is to dive in.

Thanks very good stuff. I will check it out.

Thanks to everyone who posted so far I can see I will be up late tonight LOL.

kmartburrito · Feb 22, 2010

illogic6 said:
The best way to learn about this stuff is to bite the bullet and install a Linux distro on your computer. I've also took up teaching myself to code Java in my spare time which will help you understand Android a lot better.

Also: You need an EXT partition on your SD to enable apps2sd. Is that what you're asking?

To expand on what illogic6 said about installing a distro on your computer, if you're just learning, it's not totally necessary to do that!

If you're a nerd like me, then you've got an old PC lying around that you can cannibalize for an Ubuntu box (a GREAT first distro to try!) btw, I think I have about 5 extra pcs laying around, which makes me an uber nerd, surely outdone though by others on this board.

However, if you DON'T have an extra pc lying around, no need to fret or worry about Dual Booting. While those are the most optimal, you can certainly try some live CD/DVDs which will boot from optical media, and not harm your existing install of your OS that's currently on the PC you're trying it on.

I did that a lot before I got into having a main Linux box at home. I tried Ubuntu (still one of my faves) Knoppix, Mandriva, Mint, and some others. I was really big at the time in getting Compiz fusion and Beryl to run (basically a badass window manager with 3d effects similar to Mac but with some cool extras.) Getting into that came with a huge price...LOTS and LOTS of command line work. It forced me to learn a lot about the Command line. And now, I feel completely comfortable doing those commands that folks share. It's essentially understanding the command line. Immerse yourself, and you'll learn a ton!!

Btw, to try ubuntu, just download the install CD. Now they offer as part of the start up menu the live cd option. It will say something to the effect of "Try Ubuntu without changing your computer's configuration" or something like that.

As always, if you have any questions or want me to clarify anything, feel free to respond to this or PM me, I'd be happy to steer you in the right direction!

Patb8man · Feb 22, 2010

kmartburrito said:
To expand on what illogic6 said about installing a distro on your computer, if you're just learning, it's not totally necessary to do that!

If you're a nerd like me, then you've got an old PC lying around that you can cannibalize for an Ubuntu box (a GREAT first distro to try!) btw, I think I have about 5 extra pcs laying around, which makes me an uber nerd, surely outdone though by others on this board.

However, if you DON'T have an extra pc lying around, no need to fret or worry about Dual Booting. While those are the most optimal, you can certainly try some live CD/DVDs which will boot from optical media, and not harm your existing install of your OS that's currently on the PC you're trying it on.

I did that a lot before I got into having a main Linux box at home. I tried Ubuntu (still one of my faves) Knoppix, Mandriva, Mint, and some others. I was really big at the time in getting Compiz fusion and Beryl to run (basically a badass window manager with 3d effects similar to Mac but with some cool extras.) Getting into that came with a huge price...LOTS and LOTS of command line work. It forced me to learn a lot about the Command line. And now, I feel completely comfortable doing those commands that folks share. It's essentially understanding the command line. Immerse yourself, and you'll learn a ton!!

Btw, to try ubuntu, just download the install CD. Now they offer as part of the start up menu the live cd option. It will say something to the effect of "Try Ubuntu without changing your computer's configuration" or something like that.

As always, if you have any questions or want me to clarify anything, feel free to respond to this or PM me, I'd be happy to steer you in the right direction!

Thanks I just downloaded wubi...any thoughts on that. I havent installed it yet. But it seems harmless based on the faq.

kniteshift · Feb 22, 2010

illogic6 said:
The best way to learn about this stuff is to bite the bullet and install a Linux distro on your computer.

You make Linux sound so bad, lol.

edit:

From the description, Wubi seems safe, but personally, I think playing with a shell to familiarize yourself with Command lines in terminal is jsut as good as a learning experience.
I, also, don't know how Wubi would be since it seems to run on Windows as an application. I'm not sure it'll provide such the necessary environment or tools that Linux has.

mrinehart93 · Feb 22, 2010

WUBI is a great way to get started with Linux. First, it WILL NOT damage any of your data, so it is 100% safe. Basically what is does is install Ubuntu Linux to a file, and then the file is added to the Windows bootloader. Now when you boot the Ubuntu Linux file, you will be in a non-emulated version of Ubuntu Linux, except for the fact it is running inside of a Windows partition.

kmartburrito · Feb 22, 2010

Patb8man said:
Thanks I just downloaded wubi...any thoughts on that. I havent installed it yet. But it seems harmless based on the faq.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Wubi! It's pretty badass if I remember correctly. I'm still a little old-school and have a cd case full of live cds and dvds

That should be perfect for you!

My advice though, FORCE yourself to use the command line, as that's really where the power of Linux (and Android for that matter as you're seeing firsthand) lies.

Here's a link to a page that has some command line primers to get you started.

http://linux.byexamples.com/archives/319/command-line-tutorial-for-beginners/

I'd find something though that gets you to use the command line. Ubuntu is REALLY user friendly, and you can do a ton without touching the terminal application (where the command line lies) So find something, like Compiz Fusion for example, where you'll have to do some command line work to get it running.

once you find yourself going to the ubuntuforums.org to find out how to get something to work, you'll be on the right track

Patb8man · Feb 22, 2010

kmartburrito said:
Oh yeah, I forgot about Wubi! It's pretty badass if I remember correctly. I'm still a little old-school and have a cd case full of live cds and dvds

That should be perfect for you!

My advice though, FORCE yourself to use the command line, as that's really where the power of Linux (and Android for that matter as you're seeing firsthand) lies.

Here's a link to a page that has some command line primers to get you started.

http://linux.byexamples.com/archives/319/command-line-tutorial-for-beginners/

I'd find something though that gets you to use the command line. Ubuntu is REALLY user friendly, and you can do a ton without touching the terminal application (where the command line lies) So find something, like Compiz Fusion for example, where you'll have to do some command line work to get it running.

once you find yourself going to the ubuntuforums.org to find out how to get something to work, you'll be on the right track

ool yeah I added that to the bookmarks. I cant wait to get started...Im gonna install Wubi later tonight.

kniteshift · Feb 22, 2010

mrinehart93 said:
WUBI is a great way to get started with Linux. First, it WILL NOT damage any of your data, so it is 100% safe. Basically what is does is install Ubuntu Linux to a file, and then the file is added to the Windows bootloader. Now when you boot the Ubuntu Linux file, you will be in a non-emulated version of Ubuntu Linux, except for the fact it is running inside of a Windows partition.

Sounds extremely less complicating than setting up Grub, will definitely look into Wubi for my netbook

Is_907 · Feb 22, 2010

+1 for forcing yourself to use CLI (command line interface.)
When I first learned Linux KDE and Gnome were almost the only options and they were very immature... so most of us had to learn everything the old fashioned way first

@kniteshift: GRUB is way easier to set up now than it used to be. GRUB 1.x was horrid. 2.x is super simple, IMO. And way more versatile than LILO. [end aside]

kniteshift · Feb 22, 2010

^
I haven't touched my netbook in ages, I'll check it out. Thanks!

kmartburrito · Feb 22, 2010

You can also look into setting up a persistent installation of Ubuntu on a USB drive.

I use that on my netbook a lot.

Persistent meaning it has a partition to keep track of changes you make. You can basically use it like a normal full install of Ubuntu. Plus you can move it from PC to PC if necessary too. Here's some links for info if you wanted to try it sometime:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveUsbPendrivePersistent

And the site that made this option famous:

http://www.pendrivelinux.com/

Plus, this makes you look like a Badass. Or a huge dork. I prefer the former.

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