Root Confusion

Nemaides said:

First and foremost, I sincerely apologize for making this type of thread, but I have done some searching and reading and I am now thoroughly confused.

My phone is the BNG3 version so obviously not towelroot compatible. After figuring out that was the case and it ain't being updated I stumbled upon Odin Pro, but it needs root to use. Seems like a bit of a catch 22.

So how do I root my S5, what is this Knox and why shouldn't I trip it, and what the heck is happening?

Once again, sorry for making this kind of thread, but I am just so confused.

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I'll answer the second part since the other poster already answered the first part.

Tripping knox is just setting a flag in the bootloader to true. Basically it tells Samsung that you did something "unauthorized" with your phone and voided your warranty with them. The thing is, tmobile doesn't care. They will replace/upgrade your phone without even looking. This has been confirmed many times here and other places. (don't hold me accountable...yada yada...)

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fffft said:

But TMB, like most carriers doesn't care about Knox and it usually won't affect a warranty claim made with TMB.

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That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.

THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.

TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.

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fffft said:

TMB is a large company. ...

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I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a troll/unwise, I am being completely serious. I am a cautious guy, and I wanted to know the full potential hazards of rooting with regards to their warranty policy. Of course on a person to person basis it should be easy to find a rep that will let a Knox tripped phone slide. However, in my personal opinion to pay the price of the warranty + full price of the phone + a fine in the unlikely worse case scenario that T-Mobile holds their policy to the letter seems expensive, especially when I know I will more than likely keep the phone for 2yrs+. My conclusion was to not buy their warranty, root, and be happy.

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Just do a deferred trade in then when you jump. You skip one person looking at your phone and the people in the warehouse honestly couldn't care less.

Nemaides said:

Wow, thanks for the massive amounts of information folks, truly.

A couple question though.
1. If I Install an older version and root using towelroot...
Would I be able to keep my device up to date with the performance updates Samsung releases?
2. These custom recoveries/kernels that would trip Knox? What do they mean and what advantages do they have?

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I'm not sure on the first one, so I'll let someone else answer.

The reason I chose to use the root method that tripped knox is I knew I was going to flash a custom rom later on. I would really recommend flashing the CM11 rom in the forum. If you wait a few days, most if not all the bugs will be ironed out and it'll be just as stable as stock.

As to what they mean, recoveries are what you use to flash and backup roms (they can be used for more, but this is what most people use) and kernels would just add MUCH more control over the inner workings of the phone (performance, screen calibration, button tweaks, etc).

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Nemaides said:

Last question,
If I root using an old kernel would it be possible to install updates without breaking root? Someway to keep the kernels just get the improvments?

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here are two threads concerning how to update without losing root and or tripping knox. i suggest you read as much as you can b efore doing anything http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2790292 http://xdaforums.com/tmobile-galaxy-s5/general/experimental-how-to-root-triggering-t2845421

AleHanSolo said:

That's not always the case. Before rooting, I called T-Mobile a few times speaking to different representatives each time and asked them to explicitly describe their policy on rooting and Knox, and how it relates their JUMP! program (T-mobile's warranty/insurance and upgrade service) with regards to upgrading and general insurance repair/replacement.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM SAID: If the Knox counter is tripped we will know/find out and you will no longer be eligible for upgrading nor replacement in accordance to the JUMP! program. In fact, a couple of them went into further detail that I could be liable for paying the full remaining price plus a fine if I were to attempt to upgrade/replace a Knox tripped phone.

THAT SAID, the employee that I bought the phone nonchalantly remarked when I asked him about rooting the phone with respect to the JUMP! program that T-Mobile would honor the JUMP! program despite root. HOWEVER he said nothing about a Knox tripped phone. Perhaps he equivocated meant that a towelrooted phone may be accepted but a full-fledged Knox tripped phone may not.

TL;DR:
T-Mobile representative/"official" web-sources say Knox tripped phones will not be eligible for the JUMP! program.
ONE employee at a T-Mobile store seemed to be willing to accept a rooted phone with regards to the JUMP! program.

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Yeah if you call them and ask they will tell you that ... Its completely the opposite of what happens when you bring a knox tripped phone in for an upgrade or whatever .. Think about it ... If you have jump then you have premium handset protection which means you can throw your phone at a wall and take it to tmobile and get a new one . They would way rather get a knox tripped phone that they can resell without having to pay for parts or anything like that ...I have been using tmobile for years and they never ever check for know . Knox voids the manufacturers warranty not the handset protection. The sales people really don't know jack about anything . There only fix for anything is to do a factory reset . At the end of the day Tmobile wants you to have a device so they can give you a bill monthly . Its bad business to take away equipment that makes you money . Im saying this from personal experience and basic common sense . Plus I have a friend that worked at tmobile for some time . When I bought my GS5 I rooted it while I was still in the store waiting for them to finish my transaction and even showed the sales guy how towelroot works . Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered

I like this!

fffft said:

Fair enough and I appreciate the elaboration. You described yourself as cautious which is fine. It's an individual choice whether to rely upon common practice or only trust what is official policy. You can decide what is best for yourself.

My perspective is that life is nothing if not learning to read between the lines. Have you ever read the back of a movie rental contract? Or car rental.. or rent almost anything contract? If you took the worst case, they have the right should you ever be late in returning the rented item to literally bust down your door, retrieve the rented item and not be held responsible for damage to your home. Not to mention collect hundreds of dollars in penalties for "being forced" to repatriate their overdue rental.

It would be naive to think that is common practice or likely to happen though. And that is the lesson of worst case scenarios. It's wise to know about them, but you also have to make a judgement as too how likely they are to occur. The alternative would be to refrain from doing many common place activities and live something like a hermit.

There is no reason that you or anyone else need agree though. That's just my take on it.

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:good: That right there was a lesson in life!

spirodave said:

Jump is kinda a waste anyway cause you have to have half your device paid off to JUMP , when you can just sell your phone outright to pay the other half off .Especially if you buy flagship phones . I sold my GS4 for 320 which was more than what Jump would have covered

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Not the old JUMP. That lets me upgrade twice per year without having to pay off 50%.