Nokia and Microsoft discussing WP7 on Nokia says Eldar

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ceesheim

Retired Forum Moderator
Jun 11, 2009
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No Android Fanboys Please !!!
when this is right then soon wp7 will be real big :D:D


http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/12/20/holy-crap-nokia-is-in-talks-with-microsoft-about-windows-phone-devices/

http://mynokiablog.com/2010/12/20/nokia-and-microsoft-discussing-wp7-on-nokia-says-eldar/

QUOTED FROM MYNOKIABLOG​

nokia-widows-phone-2.jpg

UnwiredView reports that according to Eldar, Nokia are working on a Windows Phone 7 phone!

Nokia has always been adamant that there will only be, S40, Symbian and MeeGo. Android was not the answer. That was, as they say, “peeing in their pants to stay warm”. Temporary measure with poor long term outcome. Before I get onto Eldar…

I’ve referenced this video a few times but remember the MeeGo interview with Marko Ahtisaari. Though Android on Nokia was refused, WP7 was not so blatantly denied. WP7 was supposedly different, though too early to tell, offered an interesting pattern.

On talking about Android:

“We’re interest in using platforms where we can add value and if that were the case – then. But it isn’t right now”

Android apparently doesn’t answer this. Symbian and Android apparently has the same pattern. WP7 is a different one
microsoft-nokia.jpg


So, other than Analysis of Mr Ahtisaari’s comments, what does Eldar have to say?

Supposedly, Nokia’s new management (Microsoft VP turned Nokia CEO?) initiated talks with Microsoft to expand cooperation. Not just technology exchange, or more Microsoft apps on Nokia phones but the creation of Window Phone 7 devices sold by Nokia. This, in true Eldar Style, is both companies desperate attempts to rescue themselves from the onslaught of Android.

Eldar isn’t in favour of this partnership. The strong command of development is taken away from Nokia (if true). He reminds us of a Nokia quote in reference to Siemens and BenQ that an eagle will not come out of two hens. Well, Siemens and BenQ, the only similarities are that they both used to make phones. Microsoft and Nokia are still pretty much giants in the game and as is Intel (MeeGo partnership). And this millennium is the year of Biological engineering so who knows what legendary chimera can arise? :p No more infertile mules please.

Eldar via UnwiredView << Cheers to Arts for the tip!

Just like the Android denials, do you reckon if this is picked up by major blogs like Giz/En that Nokia will publicly deny this too?

original posted by wpcentral
The world is aflutter today (and journalism has taken a back seat) with the unsubstantiated rumor that Nokia, under leadership of Nokia CEO Stephen Elop, who used to work with Microsoft, is in secret talks to work with Microsoft on releasing some Windows Phones. The rumor comes from Eldar Murtazin, who has attained near celebrity status with his rumor posts, despite the mediocre track record. In a post he writes (translated):

In the last month behind closed doors is a discussion of expanded cooperation Nokia and Microsoft (two-way discussion, initiated by the new leadership of Nokia). Not simply the exchange of technology, but creating an entire line of Windows Phone devices that may go under the name Nokia, through the sales channels for the company, and will also have the characteristic features of its products. This is a desperate measure of the two companies. The last step for the salvation of Android, which crushes everything in its path.

Nokia has very recently denied such future moves, instead reaffirrming their committment to Symbian and MeeGo OS, yet the rumor persists, perhaps out of wishful thinking. It is certainly possible that Nokia may release a secondary line of phones with WP7 on board--heck, Palm did the same years ago till they got back on their feet (to fall on their face again)--but we're not holding our breath on this one. For one, there is no secondary source that comes even close to backing this up and number two, financially it doesn't make much sense (see summary at ZDNet).

But we'll leave the possibility open. We're just not that confident in the idea. Even if Nokia does go forward with a Windows Phone line, so what? Has Nokia hardware (in absence of their OS) been anything truly remarkable? Or has HTC, Samsung and Apple grabbed the spotlight with hardware innovation and unique design? Call us cynical, but we're going with the latter. If Nokia and Microsoft hatch out a plan though, it will only help Windows Phone presence in the market. That is something we could live with, even if we are skeptical of the whole idea.
 
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blahism

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2010
89
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I would imagine this would spark the platform in EU where Nokia is still a top brand.. in the US, Nokia had its hayday about 10 years ago but at least they could put price pressure on devices here as well :)
 

brummiesteven

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Aug 29, 2008
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Birmingham
I would imagine this would spark the platform in EU where Nokia is still a top brand.. in the US, Nokia had its hayday about 10 years ago but at least they could put price pressure on devices here as well :)

I didn't mean to thank you, I meant to press Quote but enjoy the free Thanks anyway :p

The EU is a much bigger market than the US infact the US is quite tiny in comparison. Mobile phones is probably the only thing where Europe comes on top and it is the reason why many phones, not just smartphones, are released only in Europe (and Asia) and not at all in the US.

American Tech Blogs, Engadget, Gizmodo etc etc are constantly bashing Nokia because of Symbain and saying their Phones are awful but at the end of the day they sell more than RIM, HTC, Samsung and even Apple.

WP7 on Nokia devices would be MASSIVE. However, I'm not sure weather there is any truth in this. Microsoft have in the past tried to push nokia to adopt Windows Mobile and they've said no. Nokia like to do their own thing really and they can't really do that with Windows Phone due to no Customisation.
 

lqaddict

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2010
1,347
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NYC
I didn't mean to thank you, I meant to press Quote but enjoy the free Thanks anyway :p

The EU is a much bigger market than the US infact the US is quite tiny in comparison. Mobile phones is probably the only thing where Europe comes on top and it is the reason why many phones, not just smartphones, are released only in Europe (and Asia) and not at all in the US.

American Tech Blogs, Engadget, Gizmodo etc etc are constantly bashing Nokia because of Symbain and saying their Phones are awful but at the end of the day they sell more than RIM, HTC, Samsung and even Apple.

WP7 on Nokia devices would be MASSIVE. However, I'm not sure weather there is any truth in this. Microsoft have in the past tried to push nokia to adopt Windows Mobile and they've said no. Nokia like to do their own thing really and they can't really do that with Windows Phone due to no Customisation.
There is quite a change within Nokia, they are going through a major restructuring, so if Microsoft and Nokia really want to MS might as well acquire them, it will not be surprising.
I am not sure how spending more money for mobile market than already allocated for advertisement ($500 million or so) is in the MS interest though.
 

vetvito

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2007
3,154
181
Lets not forget to quote the entire thing:

"In the last month behind closed doors is a discussion of expanded cooperation Nokia and Microsoft (two-way discussion, initiated by the new leadership of Nokia). Not simply the exchange of technology, but creating an entire line of Windows Phone devices that may go under the name Nokia, through the sales channels for the company, and will also have the characteristic features of its products. This is a desperate measure of the two companies. The last step for the salvation of Android, which crushes everything in its path." -Eldar

The guy has a not so good track record. You're better off believing in the secret society of Illumaniti that only the people on the internet know about.
 

ceesheim

Retired Forum Moderator
Jun 11, 2009
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No Android Fanboys Please !!!
Lets not forget to quote the entire thing:

"In the last month behind closed doors is a discussion of expanded cooperation Nokia and Microsoft (two-way discussion, initiated by the new leadership of Nokia). Not simply the exchange of technology, but creating an entire line of Windows Phone devices that may go under the name Nokia, through the sales channels for the company, and will also have the characteristic features of its products. This is a desperate measure of the two companies. The last step for the salvation of Android, which crushes everything in its path." -Eldar

The guy has a not so good track record. You're better off believing in the secret society of Illumaniti that only the people on the internet know about.

LOL , I think I mist something on here , I only read that I have posted , not what Eldar posted.

Edit: I updated the first post.
 
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brummiesteven

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2008
1,322
29
Birmingham
In response to the question on WPCentral:
Has Nokia hardware (in absence of their OS) been anything truly remarkable?

YES!

- The Nokia N95 had the BEST camera I have had the pleasure of using to date, it was an innovative slider sliding one way for a keypad and the other way for media controls

- The Nokia N8 has a 12 megapixel camera which blows away anything else I've ever seen on a phone.

I want my Nokia Windows Phone 7 phone with a 12 megapixel camera and Carl Zeiss Lens!
 
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lumpaywk

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2010
597
59
Portsmouth/Gosport
In response to the question on WPCentral:


YES!

- The Nokia N95 had the BEST camera I have had the pleasure of using to date, it was an innovative slider sliding one way for a keypad and the other way for media controls

- The Nokia N8 has a 12 megapixel camera which blows away anything else I've ever seen on a phone.

I want my Nokia Windows Phone 7 phone with a 12 megapixel camera and Carl Zeiss Lens!

I second this the n95 was a properly amazing phone that was way ahead of anything at the time. This is not the only example either look back to the late 90's with the 5110 even and the nokia communicator. They have slipped slightly in resent years but that's only due to the os there hardware is sound and solidly built to match.

If they do join forces then it will catapult wp7 back into the big league where it belongs. Lets just hope Nokia can see this.
 

Tempest790

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2007
203
21
New Orleans
Nokia doesn't have much of a presence here in the U.S. but the few phones I've dealt with were very good. I'd love to see Nokia and WP7 together. I think it's a great match.

Why is there so much negativity on this!!! I just saw another article about this and it was blasting Nokia for making this move. It seems every reporter and media outlet can't wait for WP7 to fail. In my office, another friend just bought a WP7 phone so that makes 4 of us and 3 iPhone users. The rest have other phones or Blackberries (company issued).

So here's a sarcastic list:

Top ten reasons not to buy WP7
Top ten reasons WP7 users are losers
Top ten reasons Nokia shouldn't sell WP7 phones
Top ten reasons WP7 will fail
Top ten reasons anything, anytime, anywhere from Microsoft should be avoided
etc, etc

:rolleyes:
 

vetvito

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2007
3,154
181
Drop Symbian for this BS? It would possibly be the dumbest move of the year.
 

JuWa

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2009
368
20
I surely hope Nokia would go on WP7. But I have my doubts... Most of in a Finnish forum is criticizing the rumor, if Nokia would go on WP7. They say, it would be the biggest mistake (I think they have not even try WP7). What I think, it would be the greatest for Nokia for a long time, I mean a loooong time.
I just bought an Omnia 7. I think it's awesome. My first Windows phone and it's awesome. Okey the old WM was terrible. I have never, ever even thinking about to try that, it looked so ugly and clumsy OS in a phone. But WP7 is so 100% made for a phone OS. And it's beautiful. With Nokia co-operation I think the WP7 could be also coming more popular in Scandinavian, which of course it is not now, because of the lack of localisation.
 
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martoto

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2006
80
3
London
You are so Anti-WP7, Pro-Android why do you even bother posting in here?
And why do you even bother to reply on his BS :)

On the topic: If this happens it would be a very big win for Microsoft. They will finally have top-notch hardware for their OS plus a big name on it. However I do not see the real benefit for Nokia. They're gonna lose most of their identity in such move. In the other hand they've missed their momentum investing so much on Symbian and currently have not many choices. It will be a very hard decision for them.

PS: Personally, as an ordinary consumer, I also would like to see the quality of Nokia hardware combined with WP7.
 

vetvito

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2007
3,154
181
I guess you guys haven't played with a new symbian? You would totally understand.
 

truffle1234

Senior Member
Mar 16, 2007
865
27
Tokyo
There is quite a change within Nokia, they are going through a major restructuring, so if Microsoft and Nokia really want to MS might as well acquire them, it will not be surprising.
I am not sure how spending more money for mobile market than already allocated for advertisement ($500 million or so) is in the MS interest though.

i dont think MS will have there own mobile phone hardware as they work with OEM hardware vendors and if they want to keep that they will not develop or buy hardware compnies.... i beleive thats what happen ti KIN as it was a bad move because it will be conflict of intrest...
 

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    I would imagine this would spark the platform in EU where Nokia is still a top brand.. in the US, Nokia had its hayday about 10 years ago but at least they could put price pressure on devices here as well :)
    2
    However I do not see the real benefit for Nokia. They're gonna lose most of their identity in such move.

    Actually, there's a lot of benefit for Nokia in such a move. OEM quest for identity in software is understandable but awfully misguided. They (Nokia, SE, and even HTC) are strong in manufacturing and, more or less, design. And instead of focusing on these strengths what did they rush to do? Make software. Why in the world would they do it better than Microsofts, Apples and Googles of this world, with tons of IP, skills, competences, cash and tens of thousands of developers worldwide? They can't. It's not cost effective, and it's a failed strategy leading to mediocre produts. Nokia is a testament to this, SE is another one, and Motorola almost disappeared by stretching themselves too thin until they dumped their fruitless efforts and joined an "ecosystem" (God, I hate this word).

    One may argue that HTC is a successful example, but it's early to tell. Sense (and previously TouchFlo) helped them sell more phones, but that was when the OSes they used were deficient in so many ways and looked ugly. The more Android develops the more Sense will be turning into an annoyance that slows down phones and delays updates. Or look at SE. Their vast "differentiation" efforts are making them a sick joke in the Android world - they constantly delay phones and release them with the-day-before-yesterday's OS versions. Is it helping them? I don't think so. Or look at Samsung, they are successful, but do you think people buy their phones because of its brilliant whatever-it's-called UI thingie? Would it prevent anyone from switching to an HTC? Anyone? Moreover, if Nokia came to MS, MS themselves would build them a custom UI if need be.

    And really, wouldn't you wish they spent money and resources on developing better phones? Purchasing better cameras? Faster NAND flash? Developing better drivers?

    Some ten years ago, nobody cared about operating systems on phones - did it prevent Nokia from differentiating itself? Not at all. And it's not like people bought their phones because of some brilliant UI or "value adding" software. They bought their phones because they were thinner, lighter, better looking, whatever. I just don't see why they can't concentrate on that and try to kick some Taiwanese butts.

    So, here's your (and their) benefit, you name it yourself:

    PS: Personally, as an ordinary consumer, I also would like to see the quality of Nokia hardware combined with WP7.

    Does anybody remember the history of HTC? They were an ODM nobody knew. At that time, MS decided that mobiles should be smarter and started building an OS for this. They tried to approach the big guys like Nokia, SE and Motorola, of course. And got rejected vehemently. Because Nokia e.a. thought that software on phones is too important to have it made by someone else. They were scared ****less of the very idea that people may buy phones because they run Windows rather than because they are made by Nokia. So MS went to an unknown ODM in Taiwan, while Nokia tried to go it alone (well, in a consortium with others, which of course shattered into pieces). Were are we now? Moto - almost disappeared, and still struggling. SE - performing poorly. Nokia - losing market share, almost non-present in high end. HTC? Making almost as much money as Nokia. Samsung? Doing rather well, too. Lesson? Don't try to beat others in a game you can't play well.

    Now, the big question is, of course, which "ecosystem" to join. WP7 is unproven, new, doesn't allow customization (although I'm sure MS can be pushed over a bit should Nokia wish to join), costs money. On the other hand, it's fully supported by MS, looks and works better, you can make agreements with the maker. Android - free, open, all you need is download source code and have a go, huge market share already. On the downside, crowded market, attracts tons of low-end makers (thus prices are bound to go down), needs a lot of work, using it doesn't put the maker into any contractual obligations whatsoever. They can dump it tomorrow if they wish and you have nobody to complain to. Dubious IP cleanness.

    And then there's a fundamental business model conflict between Nokia and Google. For Google, the more phones can access google.com, the better. It doesn't matter how they work, how they do it, who makes them, whatever. This is best achieved when phones are dirt cheap. So they'll always be happy when cheap phones pop up everywhere with their OS. For MS it's vastly different. They can charge money for their software only when the products using it are expensive so the price can just "hide" in the total price. Thus MS (and Apple) are working towards the same goal with Nokia, while Google will work against it. Google already hurt Nokia, by the way and cost them hundreds of millions (if not billions, I don't remember) in satnav. Nothing personal, that's just what Google's business.

    I don't know what I would choose, really. There are pros and cons to both. But MS is a much more natural partner for Nokia, there's no doubt about it.
    1
    In response to the question on WPCentral:
    Has Nokia hardware (in absence of their OS) been anything truly remarkable?

    YES!

    - The Nokia N95 had the BEST camera I have had the pleasure of using to date, it was an innovative slider sliding one way for a keypad and the other way for media controls

    - The Nokia N8 has a 12 megapixel camera which blows away anything else I've ever seen on a phone.

    I want my Nokia Windows Phone 7 phone with a 12 megapixel camera and Carl Zeiss Lens!
    1
    I surely hope Nokia would go on WP7. But I have my doubts... Most of in a Finnish forum is criticizing the rumor, if Nokia would go on WP7. They say, it would be the biggest mistake (I think they have not even try WP7). What I think, it would be the greatest for Nokia for a long time, I mean a loooong time.
    I just bought an Omnia 7. I think it's awesome. My first Windows phone and it's awesome. Okey the old WM was terrible. I have never, ever even thinking about to try that, it looked so ugly and clumsy OS in a phone. But WP7 is so 100% made for a phone OS. And it's beautiful. With Nokia co-operation I think the WP7 could be also coming more popular in Scandinavian, which of course it is not now, because of the lack of localisation.
    1
    Drop Symbian for this BS? It would possibly be the dumbest move of the year.

    You are so Anti-WP7, Pro-Android why do you even bother posting in here?