Galaxy S II Android Development

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svetius

Retired User Experience Admin
Dec 23, 2009
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Hey everyone,

We've made a small change to this forum by giving it a different name. This is now the *default* Android development forum for Galaxy S II. Any works that are completely original will be filed in the Original Android Development forum. Everything else will go here.

We have a more long-term solution to the ROM situation in the works. It'll be a database-driven ROM upload tool that will make it super easy for users to find and rate the ROMs that you upload. You'll be hearing more about this in the coming months.

For now, please continue to provide feedback. Thank you for your help in making XDA a more organized place.

Thanks! :cool:

P.S. If you think your ROM should be placed in the Original Android Development forum, send me a PM.

Edit from noppy22: this thread is no longer relevant so I unstuck it...
 
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Sveitus,

I am dissapointed that the original explainatory thread was closed without reason after it was collecting opposing comments. Not cool.

I believe what you've posted (not done, I am confident that this was done with some consultation, somewhere) should be discussed in a wider context.
To that end, I've opened a thread in the XDA general forum with an admittedly emotive title "First and Second Class ROMS, 1st, 2nd class users". Please track this thread, assuming it's not lost amidst the noise.

I would have posted my concerns in the original notification thread except...

What gives?
 
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kryptoner

Senior Member
Apr 24, 2011
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Just imagine someone from sensation comes here and sees two development threads... :D
Sensation owners must be jealous by now..
 

khein

Senior Member
Apr 30, 2011
143
32
But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react. :)

Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.
 

giokou

Senior Member
May 19, 2009
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The current situation is not something new to all of us.

There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.

xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.

I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...

You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...

This is not right for the community.

I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.
 

RE795

Senior Member
Feb 1, 2010
255
14
Buckinghamshire, UK.
The current situation is not something new to all of us.

There were always have been such ''issues'' among the rom developers.

xda team the way you chose to work this out is not good at all.

I'm starting to think that you don't listen to the majority of the users...

You hear a few dev's that probably are jealous of others...

This is not right for the community.

I personally am not supporting anyone particularly, but you must find another solution.

I 100% support this view...

If this is the case, then no custom roms should be in "original" section, as they are all derived from the stock manufacturer's roms.
 
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jlevy73

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2009
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But why is this only done on the GALAXY S2 subforums? Please, implement this on all phone subforum. I want to see how others would react. :)

Still think this is a stupid idea. If devs don't want other devs recycling their works, better not publish it. Or you can just close the thread of the ROM that was derived from an another ROM without permission/due credit.

All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.

And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.
 

zikarus

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2005
344
63
I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.

You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.

It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?

And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?

We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.
 
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DaveShaw

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Dec 4, 2007
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All hell would break lose and their would be a mass exodus of developers and some pissed off members.

And why was the other thread closed. Perhaps XDA didn't like that all the negative PR they were getting. This plan was poorly conceived and executed. And to make it worse, XDA is being the judge, jury and executioner.

The other thread was closed because it was a discussion on the Derived ROMs Forum format, which as you state wasn't what we hoped it would be. So, changed the forum format. The old discussion was closed and a new one started to discuss this iteration. The thread was also started and stuck by svetius.

I am quite disappointed that this unjustified separation and disqualification of some devs work is still not corrected. You justified your step by "feedback" asking for it. I believe you are severely misleading people here.

You earned a lot of justified feedback in the first thread being deleted meanwhile and still you don't get things sorted out.

It is obviously totally wrong to piss off devs and force them to prove they are not guilty of what you may think. It ought to be the other way around: you should have a prove to claim what you state before you behave (and take action) the way you did. Some kind of US wild west mentality around here. I understand when people think that you only try to protect some of the devs being closer to you or being longer active on xda than some others. The selection of Roms being put to one or the other section proves that already since there seems to be no logic behind your decisions. Some early birds being put to the second class thread while some others who have just released quite usual stuff but were active with other hardware before have been put to the first class thread. And till now no kind of explanation why this or that Rom has been put here or there? What about Litenin e.g. which has been asked for a dozen times in the first, deleted thread ?

And above all: what kind of guilt do you think of ?

We are talking about open source here and all Roms are derived from Samsung stuff except for CM / MIUI. So where does originality start and where does it end? And who may decide: Even if a custom ROM was copied from another custom one in the first step it might have become an own developement over time.

The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.
 

mostyle

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2006
491
236
Langley, SC
Clearer..

<sarcasm>

This titling does make it clearer..

Example:

Original Development: CM7

It's built from the ground up with a myriad of coded additions to be a truly 'Original' product.

Development: Everything else

All other ROMS are stock deodexed upgrades.

</sarcasm>
 

zikarus

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2005
344
63
The thread hasn't been deleted, it's been closed. The reasons (while obvious) are above.

Closed or deleted - did not see it but no big difference anyway.

And there is nothing obvious neither about the closing nor the separation.

If you like to install a new tool do so. Build it, introduce it. Till then leave things as they were, stop separation and maybe excuse for the mess you produced by an unbiased decision... My 5 ct

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
 
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nilezon

Senior Member
Jan 30, 2008
340
222
I really don't understand what an "original ROM" is. Google wrote the only original Android ROM imho.
 

mynameisjon

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2010
616
80
Singapore
here's a thought.

Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.

There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.

It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?
 

pulser_g2

Admin Emeritus / Senior Recognized Developer
Nov 27, 2009
19,544
11,630
mynameisjon said:
here's a thought.

Villain Rom Lite is in "original" even though it's clearly based off VillainRom.

There's CLEAR favoritism going on here.

It should either be merged with the original or moved. It's just the same ROM with removed apps. How is that "original"?

Uhm actually the fact that thread was buried a few pages until yesterday meant svetius may have missed it. Moved it across.
 

Major_Sarcasm

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2009
839
204
South Coast, UK
oceancopy.co.uk
I must admit, the way the mods have chosen to separate the two development sections doesn't sit well with me at all. The criteria for which section a ROM goes in to is very subjective and open to various interpretations, all of which are prone to the moderator's possible bias.

Strictly speaking, only one or two ROMs are 'original development' and belong in that section. All the others are derivatives in some way or another.

A better way to clean up the dev forum would be to have a couple of sub-sections; perhaps one for all ROMs (regardless of source), one for kernels and related modifications and another for android-specific modifications. Then, be strict about enforcing the sub-section criteria. Also, ask ROM chefs to state in their OP whether the ROM is based on another ROM and to credit the original developer/chef.

Everything else goes in Themes & Apps.

Also, having a mandatory format for thread titles (a la the HD2 forum) is an excellent way to keep things tidy and ensure that people know when a new release has been posted and what the releases are based upon. It worked over in HD2 rather well I thought. After coming from an HD2 to the S2, I thought that the S2 forums were a little untidy to say the least.

Ok, serious mode off, back to my usual sarcastic self.
 
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TheBishopOfSoho

Senior Member
Nov 7, 2008
150
31
London
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.
 

Major_Sarcasm

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2009
839
204
South Coast, UK
oceancopy.co.uk
OK, I dont agree with the splitting of the forums, but its not my decision and will go along with it. One thing that does really annoy me and needs to be fixed is that this new forum doesnt show up on the android app. Can that be fixed? I like keeping up with a few roms here and am usually on the move.

No harm in disagreeing! If enough people disagree, the mods may relent on this decision.
 
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    Hey everyone,

    We've made a small change to this forum by giving it a different name. This is now the *default* Android development forum for Galaxy S II. Any works that are completely original will be filed in the Original Android Development forum. Everything else will go here.

    We have a more long-term solution to the ROM situation in the works. It'll be a database-driven ROM upload tool that will make it super easy for users to find and rate the ROMs that you upload. You'll be hearing more about this in the coming months.

    For now, please continue to provide feedback. Thank you for your help in making XDA a more organized place.

    Thanks! :cool:

    P.S. If you think your ROM should be placed in the Original Android Development forum, send me a PM.

    Edit from noppy22: this thread is no longer relevant so I unstuck it...
    10
    tjjensen23 said:
    y da hell would you necro this thread for that?

    Closed to prevent idiots necro'ing further, as this one seems fairly dead
    10
    Ok I admit there are a lot of roms out there are stock with a few apps added/removed and a new skin, but, everyone starts somewhere, people like this
    this

    A*% Hole

    are what undermine new devs' and stop people from continuing/starting development I started some work on ubuntu, and had never worked with kernels before, always just software, so I asked for help compiling a Ninphetamine kernel with a couple of extra modules and got abuse of Hacre,

    All I asked was what toolchain he was using,

    However, there some helpful guys out there, I joined #project-voodoo IRC and had a char with supercurio and some others and got the kernel compiled in no time and have since had additional help and become much more familiar with kernels which led to me sucessfully adding USB Serial support to my ninph kernel and releasing this;

    http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1223128&page=4

    Is this "Original" no is it hell, but did it run on the SGSII when I got it, no it didn't.

    Subsequently Supercurio got $10 for his help and Hacre lost a user of his kernel since I compiled my own from source.

    Oh no I lost a user of my kernel? Whatever shall I do? All that money I've lost from losing a customer! My reputation ruined! All that money per click on my download links! One less person using up bandwidth on a dedicated gigabit server I pay for, by myself, so that people who do use my kernel don't have to **** around with nag screen filled/wait to download multidownload sites?

    Also since when does this:

    Hacre said:
    Do I look like tech support for how to build stuff? Hint: I actually do not.

    class as abuse? You consider that abuse? You must be one precious wee sheltered snowflake. I didn't even call you any names or bring your intellect into question or anything.

    Congratulations on finding a developer willing to hold your hand. Hopefully you learned from the experience. I was kind of hoping you'd learn to help yourself, I was actually impressed when you got mad and figured out the error in the Makefile, unfortunately it seems supercurio found it, not you.

    There's an old saying. Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll eat forever. The guy that mentored me drummed into me early, before we had fancy things like Google, to search and try to figure problems out, not go running to the nearest techie and ask to be spoonfed. As a result I'm rather self sufficient in my learning and figuring things out and as a result I learn a lot more about the thing I'm researching. This is sound advice for any developer. While you lot feel I'm being an asshole by not spoonfeeding you the answer to every question when you're expressing a wish to learn to develop/compile kernels etc, you'd do well to realise that finding the answers yourself improves retention of knowledge and it also improves your research skills. Better research skills? Better developer! What are you going to do when the day comes (and it will) when no one around you knows the answer and you've been spoonfed up to that point? You're going to be stuck, bereft of any research skills. What happens if that occurs in a job or something you're actually making some money from? Not going to look so clever then are you?

    Not only that, I'm not actually here to teach people the basics of compiling a kernel. There's a plethora of information on how to do that all over the internet already. I'm not all that big on reinventing wheels. To accuse me of being an asshole because I don't take time out of my day to hold some stranger's hand through a basic build process that's already documented everywhere after I've spent hours upon hours of my free time working on a project and giving it away for free is really ****ing ungrateful. Tossing your toys out of your pram and throwing a tantrum because someone said "no" to you for the first time in your life indicates to me that you've got some very important life lessons to learn sunshine and more pressing issues than trying to figure out how to compile a kernel for your phone.

    We all know that the "developer" you mentioned is a tool. He can flame anyone he wants with no consequence. His kernel thread is full of ridiculously useless banter that has nothing to do with development AT ALL, yet no moderator bothers to clean it up. And when one actually tried to delete his flame-ridden good for nothing Post #5, all he had to do was get one of his other moderator buddies to un-delete it.

    As for you, waahh. Ever considered why a lot of my **** slides? Maybe because there's a lot of truth in it and maybe because the admin staff want to turn around this failboat full of whiny over expectant idiots that make life really hard not only for developers, but for intelligent people coming here interested in getting into development and actually interested in learning and self teaching, or contributing to projects, rather than doing little other than looking for handouts. You know, what a DEVELOPER site is actually for.

    If you don't like my posts, my threads or my work that's fine with me. Put me on ignore, avoid my threads, don't use my work, I honestly could not give a toss. I pride myself on the projects I produce and strive to make them as good as possible. Every single person that provides me useful non idiotic feedback is treated politely, actioned in the code if need be, or assistance given. You're moaning about post 5? Post 5 is a deterrent. There's what, 10 entrants there? Can you honestly tell me not one of the people I quoted in that thread weren't Given the number of downloads, replies, views and PMs of thanks I've had for that thread and for post 5 I'd say my averages look pretty good.

    While we're at it, why are you both so butthurt about what a complete stranger on the internet said to you or anyone else, anyway?
    5
    No one has ever said (at least no one important) that the mere fact that a rom is based on stock does not make it original.

    Original roms are roms that offer something different from the others

    Take VillainRom for example, was the first custom rom for the SGS2, the first deodexed rom... and it continues to offer something unique in VillainRom Tweaks, many of the tweaks which were made by users and team members of VillainRom (and has it's own kernel on the way thanks to Ninpo). This is why this is considered an original rom.

    No rom in the other section has this, the way they have tried to look "original" is by adding a new theme...font...whatever in some cases it is just simply adding some apps you can download from the market for free anyway... these just clutter the real development work making real important threads harder to find (and lets face it the search feature on xda is largely useless).

    Now I will leave you with this question.

    If all you people complaining about the switch are correct, how come no "devs" in this "subsection" have complained ey? why is it just the users of these so called "lesser roms"?

    Grow up

    Man you come across as a serious ass. You need to check that condescending attitude at the door. Feel free to do that on your own site but here you're just 1 of 4 million members.

    Humor me for a second with what the definition of an original Rom is. It's like asking whether Tony Blair was a good PM or not. Really comes down to who you ask. What makes VillainRom original? So you've taken Samsung's firmware deodexed it and optimized apk's. And at the time of this writing VillainRom doesn't even use it's own kernel (thanks Chainfire). Wow, how original. If you go through all the Rom's at XDA that have deodexed and optimized APK's that be about 99.9% of them. And there is nothing original about that since Jesusfreke showed the Android world how to do that years ago. So really the only thing unique about VillainRom are VRtweaks, and even most of those are someone else's work.

    To put VillainRom in the same sentence with CM is making a mockery of Cyanogen. By the time CM7 is retired there will be over a thousand unique commits. And if LitePro was a moderator I'm sure VillainRom would be in the derivative Rom's and you'd be crying.
    3
    No one has ever said (at least no one important) that the mere fact that a rom is based on stock does not make it original.

    Original roms are roms that offer something different from the others

    Take VillainRom for example, was the first custom rom for the SGS2, the first deodexed rom... and it continues to offer something unique in VillainRom Tweaks, many of the tweaks which were made by users and team members of VillainRom (and has it's own kernel on the way thanks to Ninpo). This is why this is considered an original rom.

    No rom in the other section has this, the way they have tried to look "original" is by adding a new theme...font...whatever in some cases it is just simply adding some apps you can download from the market for free anyway... these just clutter the real development work making real important threads harder to find (and lets face it the search feature on xda is largely useless).

    Now I will leave you with this question.

    If all you people complaining about the switch are correct, how come no "devs" in this "subsection" have complained ey? why is it just the users of these so called "lesser roms"?

    Grow up