Oral contracts are vaild
At the point of sale he was given assurance by the salesman that the phone would be unlocked after a call to customer service.
Is that what was written or said somewhere or are you just throwing that out there? I have NEVER seen anything in my at&t paperwork that says this phone will not be unlocked for 10 months even if the sales person says so. That sounds like something you made up.
Ha! I love the cliches. I find when people don't have a rigorous command of the subject matter they throw out cliches like "buyer beware." Now here is a little history/law lesson. Our modern contract law is based on common law that goes back centuries. It did not come into existence with Windows 7, Microsoft word 2010 and HP laser printers. For centuries there have been farmers, black smiths, bakers who were functionally illiterate and couldn't even spell their names who entered into verbal contracts. They have had their cases heard and settled in civil courts.
Link.
Verbal contracts are more difficult to prove but they absolutely carry as much weight as written contracts. Furthermore we are talking about a credit card dispute. You obviously have never filed a successful credit card dispute. The burden of proof in a civil trial is not 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt. That's for criminal. You just need a preponderance of the evidence to support your case. Secondly the first step isn't even a legal proceeding. It is a credit card dispute. It has an even lower (in my experience) burden of proof than a civil case. If you have never filed a successful credit card dispute why don't you listen to those of us who have?
You really think they fly lawyers AND store sales people and managers to different locations for small claims court cases?! They fly a single lawyer out RARELY. Most of the time they know it's just not cost effective to fly a lawyer out to fight over $500 or a FREE unlock code. Plus small claims court is way down the line. A letter to the CEO should clear this up. If not a credit card dispute probably will. After that small claims court is the last resort.
In court no one has to admit anything. You show up with a receipt for $500, a Canadian driver's license, and a Canadian SIM then it's up to at&t to explain what conversation went on. It is HIGHLY implausible that someone would go in and buy a $500 phone after being told repeatedly that it would not work in Canada. It is also highly implausible that someone would come in and say I want to spend $500 on a phone you are giving away for free and a sales person wouldn't ask why. It is also highly implausible if our Canadian friend lied for some reason and said he was going to use it on at&t the sales person wouldn't open the box and activate it on their account or at least check for upgrade possibilities.
If at&t rejects the story of our friends' from Canada they will have to come up with their own. In small claims court judges ask questions. They don't just sit there passively.
Well the sale has been made already. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Let's concentrate on actually solving the current problem instead of scolding these poor guys.
Yeah these people live in a different country. They may not have the time or resources to drive/fly down and talk to every store/district manager. If they've already lobbed in a few phone calls it's time to start the letter part of the saga. The problem with credit card disputes is there is a relatively short window to do them. And you need to send a certified letter to the head honchos at at&t and give them a reasonable amount of time to respond.
Here is really the fundamental problem. You have never done a credit card dispute. There are certain specific things you must do in a timely manner that will dramatically increase your chances of success. Wasting time making a bunch of phone calls after your initial calls have failed runs down the clock. Every remedy you have suggested depends on the customer waiting around for at&t in its beneficence to bestow upon you what it sees fit. How about this? Ask at&t politely a couple of times and then take the decision out of their hands.
My phone is fine locked. I am using at&t. Giving people advice about how to solve their problems without anymore verbal confrontations isn't "railing on here against at&t." I actually find sending a certified letter to the CEO of a company a very calming experience. Once I start the process I know within roughly 60 days it will be resolved. I don't need to depend on the opinion of strangers on the internet. If the company doesn't acquiesce my credit card will give me all my money back. No confrontations. No waiting around for at&t's largess. Simple clean straight forward.
To the Canadians that are still reading this post please get started on your dispute ASAP. There is a time limit. If you wait too long then you will be dependent either on at&t's charity or the court system. And please don't forget this thread. Report back with what you did and the result good or bad. I am always eager to learn if there are any flaws in my strategy.
Do not let internet trolls discourage you. It is your time limit. Once the time limit is up internet trolls aren't going to renew it for you. Use your remaining time wisely.
At the point of sale he was given assurance by the salesman that the phone would be unlocked after a call to customer service.
Is that what was written or said somewhere or are you just throwing that out there? I have NEVER seen anything in my at&t paperwork that says this phone will not be unlocked for 10 months even if the sales person says so. That sounds like something you made up.
Ha! I love the cliches. I find when people don't have a rigorous command of the subject matter they throw out cliches like "buyer beware." Now here is a little history/law lesson. Our modern contract law is based on common law that goes back centuries. It did not come into existence with Windows 7, Microsoft word 2010 and HP laser printers. For centuries there have been farmers, black smiths, bakers who were functionally illiterate and couldn't even spell their names who entered into verbal contracts. They have had their cases heard and settled in civil courts.
lawfirms.com said:
Link.
Verbal contracts are more difficult to prove but they absolutely carry as much weight as written contracts. Furthermore we are talking about a credit card dispute. You obviously have never filed a successful credit card dispute. The burden of proof in a civil trial is not 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt. That's for criminal. You just need a preponderance of the evidence to support your case. Secondly the first step isn't even a legal proceeding. It is a credit card dispute. It has an even lower (in my experience) burden of proof than a civil case. If you have never filed a successful credit card dispute why don't you listen to those of us who have?
You really think they fly lawyers AND store sales people and managers to different locations for small claims court cases?! They fly a single lawyer out RARELY. Most of the time they know it's just not cost effective to fly a lawyer out to fight over $500 or a FREE unlock code. Plus small claims court is way down the line. A letter to the CEO should clear this up. If not a credit card dispute probably will. After that small claims court is the last resort.
lawfirms.com said:
In court no one has to admit anything. You show up with a receipt for $500, a Canadian driver's license, and a Canadian SIM then it's up to at&t to explain what conversation went on. It is HIGHLY implausible that someone would go in and buy a $500 phone after being told repeatedly that it would not work in Canada. It is also highly implausible that someone would come in and say I want to spend $500 on a phone you are giving away for free and a sales person wouldn't ask why. It is also highly implausible if our Canadian friend lied for some reason and said he was going to use it on at&t the sales person wouldn't open the box and activate it on their account or at least check for upgrade possibilities.
If at&t rejects the story of our friends' from Canada they will have to come up with their own. In small claims court judges ask questions. They don't just sit there passively.
Well the sale has been made already. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Let's concentrate on actually solving the current problem instead of scolding these poor guys.
Yeah these people live in a different country. They may not have the time or resources to drive/fly down and talk to every store/district manager. If they've already lobbed in a few phone calls it's time to start the letter part of the saga. The problem with credit card disputes is there is a relatively short window to do them. And you need to send a certified letter to the head honchos at at&t and give them a reasonable amount of time to respond.
Here is really the fundamental problem. You have never done a credit card dispute. There are certain specific things you must do in a timely manner that will dramatically increase your chances of success. Wasting time making a bunch of phone calls after your initial calls have failed runs down the clock. Every remedy you have suggested depends on the customer waiting around for at&t in its beneficence to bestow upon you what it sees fit. How about this? Ask at&t politely a couple of times and then take the decision out of their hands.
My phone is fine locked. I am using at&t. Giving people advice about how to solve their problems without anymore verbal confrontations isn't "railing on here against at&t." I actually find sending a certified letter to the CEO of a company a very calming experience. Once I start the process I know within roughly 60 days it will be resolved. I don't need to depend on the opinion of strangers on the internet. If the company doesn't acquiesce my credit card will give me all my money back. No confrontations. No waiting around for at&t's largess. Simple clean straight forward.
To the Canadians that are still reading this post please get started on your dispute ASAP. There is a time limit. If you wait too long then you will be dependent either on at&t's charity or the court system. And please don't forget this thread. Report back with what you did and the result good or bad. I am always eager to learn if there are any flaws in my strategy.
Do not let internet trolls discourage you. It is your time limit. Once the time limit is up internet trolls aren't going to renew it for you. Use your remaining time wisely.
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