Enough with KNOX already, cripes!

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mk2flip

Member
Aug 24, 2010
13
9
Your factory warranty will not be voided if you simply root you device. A simple OTA update (say too Kit kat, from approved channels) WILL trip KNOX. My wife's stock 8" got the update through Samsung and the fuse tripped. Those of you *****ing about it are going to sure be red when you do update to KitKat and find out its been tripped. I work for a legacy company that only uses secure devices. That's why we have KNOX, its not for a witch hunt to find out who has rooted what and wiggle out of the warranty. Unless you change how the CPU works ( overclocking and such) that can damage the device, that is a different story. But simply rooting without any additional adjustments other than program removal, debloating or changing how buttons work will not void your manufacturers warranty.

This has been bugging me for while.
Sorry.
Back to Star trek.

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root

Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app
 

Stevethegreat

Senior Member
Nov 28, 2010
1,199
327
Your factory warranty will not be voided if you simply root you device. A simple OTA update (say too Kit kat, from approved channels) WILL trip KNOX. My wife's stock 8" got the update through Samsung and the fuse tripped. Those of you *****ing about it are going to sure be red when you do update to KitKat and find out its been tripped. I work for a legacy company that only uses secure devices. That's why we have KNOX, its not for a witch hunt to find out who has rooted what and wiggle out of the warranty. Unless you change how the CPU works ( overclocking and such) that can damage the device, that is a different story. But simply rooting without any additional adjustments other than program removal, debloating or changing how buttons work will not void your manufacturers warranty.

This has been bugging me for while.
Sorry.
Back to Star trek.

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root

Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app

In download mode it quite clearly reads "warranty is void". Now if that message will be honored by the manufacturer and/or vendor (it) is another story altogether. But as far as the device knows the warranty *is* Void and none of your links deny that.

Now knox , may well have been designed for corporate security, sure, but that doesn't stop Samsung to also use it to deny paying for warranties. You , can call it a scheme as much as you want, but there is not one official source to deny that.

Was the knox wire tripped from official update? Bummer, no warranty for you...
 
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DeBoX

Senior Member
Jul 26, 2010
366
28
Samsung in Scandinavia (Samsung Nordic office) has confirmed that a tripped knox is auto void warranty ... :(

A friend of mine works for a major tech importer (they sell to retailers, but also handle a good deal of the warranty shipping/repairs etc) for the scandinavian countries and according to him the support dept is supposed to check if the knox fuse is 0X0 before they do anything with the device. Major bummer!!
 
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hurrpancakes

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2010
713
120
Upgrading my Note 3 from stock 4.3 to stock 4.4 most definitely did NOT trip my Knox counter. There would be no reason for that to happen, since Knox checks for non-Samsung firmware, and an update sent out by Samsung is (obviously) Samsung firmware.
 
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mk2flip

Member
Aug 24, 2010
13
9
A factory update will trip the fuse. Knox is added after the initial os is compiled. The problem is that most service centers or regional Samsung centers don't even really understand what KNOX is for. So when they see it tripped they assume that you did something detrimental to the device. When we purchased 150 s4, 8" and 10" we had a Samsung coporate rep show our staff the many enterprise features that can be implemented on the devices. He's the one that told us that simply a rooted device will not void warranty. We have had over 20 devices covered under warranty by 3 different service centers that have been rooted. Now changing Roms and kernels are a different story, we had warranty rejected by the same regional centers for 3 of our devices that we were doing testing on that had these. We have dealt with this extensively over the last 6 months or so.

Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app
 
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mk2flip

Member
Aug 24, 2010
13
9
The counter trips when ANYONE attempts to rewrite or change the original firmware, factory or otherwise. This includes updates from Samsung. They don't even have the ability to reset the fuse. It requires surgery on the device.

Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app
 

lotus49

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2011
135
14
Yorkshire
This simply isn't true.

The purpose of Knox is not to check for any updates but to check for tampering with the bootloader. I know nothing of the circumstances of your sister's update but numerous people have updated Knox-enabled devices with stock updates and Knox has NOT been tripped nor is it supposed to be.

Apart from anything, what you say defies common sense. What would be the purpose of a hardware fuse that tripped when any update is applied? Knox is there so that enterprises can check whether a device has been tampered with and deny certain functionality if that has happened. This wouldn't work if it were tripped by authorised updates.

There are threads here and in other forums that show that Knox is not tripped by standard updates or flashing stock ROMs (although there are limited examples where this has happened - they are very much the minority).

Added to which, there have been conflicting statements made by Samsung and its representatives over the implications of Knox 0x1. Some have said that all warranties are void. Some that warranty may not be refused if the problem is unequivocally unconnected with rooting/installing a 3rd party ROM (e.g. the home button breaking). The situation is far from clear and concerns over the implications of tripping the Knox fuse will remain well-founded until there is an authoritative statement from Samsung that Knox 0x1 will never void the hardware warranty and such a statement has not yet been made and probably never will be.
 

hurrpancakes

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2010
713
120
A factory update will trip the fuse. Knox is added after the initial os is compiled. The problem is that most service centers or regional Samsung centers don't even really understand what KNOX is for. So when they see it tripped they assume that you did something detrimental to the device. When we purchased 150 s4, 8" and 10" we had a Samsung coporate rep show our staff the many enterprise features that can be implemented on the devices. He's the one that told us that simply a rooted device will not void warranty. We have had over 20 devices covered under warranty by 3 different service centers that have been rooted. Now changing Roms and kernels are a different story, we had warranty rejected by the same regional centers for 3 of our devices that we were doing testing on that had these. We have dealt with this extensively over the last 6 months or so.

Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app

The counter trips when ANYONE attempts to rewrite or change the original firmware, factory or otherwise. This includes updates from Samsung. They don't even have the ability to reset the fuse. It requires surgery on the device.

Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app
That is simply not true. I've updated my Galaxy Note 3 from Samsung official firmware to Samsung official firmware, and my Knox counter is not tripped. I'm sure if what you are saying is true (that any update will trip it), we would have heard from some Android news outlet or from a lot more than one person on XDA.
 
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Elim

Senior Member
Feb 17, 2008
1,552
351
Antwerpen
That is simply not true.
+1

I and many others up- and downgrade already their Note with OTA, Kies, Odin and so long you flash a original firmware signed by Samsung, the Knox counter is not set.

And the story with the warranty is something else. So long we didn't get reports that someone didn't get the warranty, I am observant.
 
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BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
KNOX is what it is. It affects probably 5% of people (enthusiasts) who buy Samsung devices. The other 95% don't know what root or a bootloader is and probably won't ever activate KNOX (the app) and it'll lay dormant on their devices forever. KNOX 2.0 is coming so those hoping it'll go away or that the *****ing of the 5% is somehow going to influence Samsung's position on KNOX either have to learn to live with it or buy non-Samsung devices.

BYOD is a huge market and why KNOX exists. The 5% of device owners that hate KNOX and the limitations on modding it applies are expendable.

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/new-knox-solutions-being-announced-mwc

As for warranty repairs on KNOX-tripped devices there are plenty of reports I've seen saying the warranty has been honored. That's not to say every regional Samsung repair center is going to play by the same set of rules but it also means there's no hard and fast policy that's corporate-wide designed to screw people out of warranty repairs they are entitled to.

It took about a week between sending it in and getting it back. The issue I had was that the note would not reboot if you pulled the battery and reinserted without having to connect it to the charger. Before I sent it in, i flashed back to stock using ODIN. I checked the status of the repair and it said they had replaced a component. I wasn't sure if they were going to do anything since I had tripped KNOX counter.

**The kicker**

I got it back today and immediately went into download mode and to my surprise, KNOX was reset to 0X0!! I know they said they were going to flash it back to stock when they got it, but i didn't think KNOX could be reset (even by them).

:D

http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2637718
 
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andrewilley

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2006
969
180
Birmingham
This whole Knox thing was worrying me, as a potential UK purchaser of a Note 10.1 2014 who needs root to be able to run several apps that I want to use.

If rooting was going to void the warranty anyway, I would have just bought a cheaper USA model and be done with it (as there would be no UK warranty anyway). However if I should still get my two-years EU warranty then I might pay the exorbitant UK prices for a local model. Someone really ought to introduce the tech companies to the exchange rate (even with taxes & duties, US is still miles cheaper)

Andre
 

nvan7891

Senior Member
Jan 9, 2012
90
38
KNOX is what it is. It affects probably 5% of people (enthusiasts) who buy Samsung devices. The other 95% don't know what root or a bootloader is and probably won't ever activate KNOX (the app) and it'll lay dormant on their devices forever. KNOX 2.0 is coming so those hoping it'll go away or that the *****ing of the 5% is somehow going to influence Samsung's position on KNOX either have to learn to live with it or buy non-Samsung devices.

BYOD is a huge market and why KNOX exists. The 5% of device owners that hate KNOX and the limitations on modding it applies are expendable.

https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/new-knox-solutions-being-announced-mwc

As for warranty repairs on KNOX-tripped devices there are plenty of reports I've seen saying the warranty has been honored. That's not to say every regional Samsung repair center is going to play by the same set of rules but it also means there's no hard and fast policy that's corporate-wide designed to screw people out of warranty repairs they are entitled to.



http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2637718

With a Jtag box it is possible to downgrade from Knox, provided you have a previously made pre Knox backup. From what I understand, even by rewriting the entire ROM space, you still can't reset the warranty bit. Not sure where exactly it is. As for People11's note coming back with it reset, he mentioned they "replaced a component." Whatever they replaced apparently held the warranty bit. Samsung might not even be able to reset it themselves, but swapping out the right hardware with fresh stuff will (obviously) take care of it.

It is true that only a small percentage of all users are affected by Knox; however, they are all on xda, and in fact make up the vast majority here. Samsung can do whatever they want to their phones, and I'm sure the warranty bit will save them a chunk of change. Still, it doesn't mean it's not a total **** move, and worthy of *****ing. The development behind Samsung devices is part of what makes them so great, and why people love them.

Tossing a big "F you" in the face of the people that make that happen is in bad taste. I also think you are underestimating the amount of users who root their phones, and the influence developers and the like have on a devices success. Not all development is for root users, but the people responsible for the best stuff, root or otherwise, are typically people who use root.

Sure, the galaxy s 5 will never end up being burried en masse out in the desert a la E.T The extraterrestrial, and I'm sure the Samsung executives won't be going hungry anytime soon no matter how much they crack down on warranty claims. Long term, however, I would say that restricting development and a devices friendliness towards modification will have a detrimental effect as time goes on.
 
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BarryH_GEG

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2009
10,197
5,142
Spokane, Washington
With a Jtag box it is possible to downgrade from Knox, provided you have a previously made pre Knox backup. From what I understand, even by rewriting the entire ROM space, you still can't reset the warranty bit. Not sure where exactly it is. As for People11's note coming back with it reset, he mentioned they "replaced a component." Whatever they replaced apparently held the warranty bit. Samsung might not even be able to reset it themselves, but swapping out the right hardware with fresh stuff will (obviously) take care of it.

It is true that only a small percentage of all users are affected by Knox; however, they are all on xda, and in fact make up the vast majority here. Samsung can do whatever they want to their phones, and I'm sure the warranty bit will save them a chunk of change. Still, it doesn't mean it's not a total **** move, and worthy of *****ing. The development behind Samsung devices is part of what makes them so great, and why people love them.

Tossing a big "F you" in the face of the people that make that happen is in bad taste. I also think you are underestimating the amount of users who root their phones, and the influence developers and the like have on a devices success. Not all development is for root users, but the people responsible for the best stuff, root or otherwise, are typically people who use root.

Sure, the galaxy s 5 will never end up being burried en masse out in the desert a la E.T The extraterrestrial, and I'm sure the Samsung executives won't be going hungry anytime soon no matter how much they crack down on warranty claims. Long term, however, I would say that restricting development and a devices friendliness towards modification will have a detrimental effect as time goes on.

There were 968M smartphones sold in 2013. There are 5M XDA members of varying degrees of participation. Based on how vocal we are here it's easy to overestimate our importance. If unlocked bootloaders, pure android, and unfettered root access were so meaningful you'd think Nexus h/w would make up more than its current 2% of total Android devices in use. The masses could care less about the things XDA'rs do.
 

Duly.noted

Senior Member
Dec 5, 2013
506
114
But keep in mind the LARGE number of Chinese phones open to root (some use it as a marketing point like Oppo) the Chinese market is full of hackers and modders because that is the only way to access many forms of media, news, and social networking. Combined with the higher average test scores and heavy android preference in the developing nations and I would say the number of people with us is Far greater than 5 million. Enough to make any one company take notice. These people crave freedom. As do I. I think we take the ignorance of the average American consumer and imagine it represents the whole of the world. But in reality America is Just full of idiots and xda represents the few good in the nation (and of course other nations)
Other nations are full of much more savvy and informed consumers. More like us.
 
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ps000000

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2011
1,770
415
Nonthaburi / Bangkok
Some of my SS device bought from another country so they have no warranty

I have fun with them a lot rooting/custom rom flashing.

But now with my P601 I bought it in my country it has warranty ....


so I am not thinking about rooting or anything.....
 

TabGuy

Senior Member
Jun 20, 2011
789
185
Square trade man... Saves lives

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

I have a SquareTrade policy on my Note. However, the SquareTrade excludes damage due to software. So, I would expect that if the Knox flag is tripped then the SquareTrade dollars are worthless. Unless one wants to go the dark route and submerse the Note in water "accidentally."
 

RussellEstridge25

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
1,043
148
North Branch
I have a SquareTrade policy on my Note. However, the SquareTrade excludes damage due to software. So, I would expect that if the Knox flag is tripped then the SquareTrade dollars are worthless. Unless one wants to go the dark route and submerse the Note in water "accidentally."

I don't that the Knox being tripped would void square trade...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
Square trade man... Saves lives

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

Tell me more... Is square trade cool or what.. Just spent 656 on a smp605 and I don't know if I have a warranty or not... I know inhabe a month and 127 bucks is not allot.

MB865/ST-ATT/4.4.2/BMM
ZLP- SM-N900W8/Att-ST/OxO/CWM/ViSiOn NB7_4.4.2,Madmack 2.0
SMP605- ? brand new
 

RussellEstridge25

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
1,043
148
North Branch
Tell me more... Is square trade cool or what.. Just spent 656 on a smp605 and I don't know if I have a warranty or not... I know inhabe a month and 127 bucks is not allot.

MB865/ST-ATT/4.4.2/BMM
ZLP- SM-N900W8/Att-ST/OxO/CWM/ViSiOn NB7_4.4.2,Madmack 2.0
SMP605- ? brand new

Just go to the square trade website.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
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    Your factory warranty will not be voided if you simply root you device. A simple OTA update (say too Kit kat, from approved channels) WILL trip KNOX. My wife's stock 8" got the update through Samsung and the fuse tripped. Those of you *****ing about it are going to sure be red when you do update to KitKat and find out its been tripped. I work for a legacy company that only uses secure devices. That's why we have KNOX, its not for a witch hunt to find out who has rooted what and wiggle out of the warranty. Unless you change how the CPU works ( overclocking and such) that can damage the device, that is a different story. But simply rooting without any additional adjustments other than program removal, debloating or changing how buttons work will not void your manufacturers warranty.

    This has been bugging me for while.
    Sorry.
    Back to Star trek.

    https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

    https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root

    Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app
    3
    This simply isn't true.

    The purpose of Knox is not to check for any updates but to check for tampering with the bootloader. I know nothing of the circumstances of your sister's update but numerous people have updated Knox-enabled devices with stock updates and Knox has NOT been tripped nor is it supposed to be.

    Apart from anything, what you say defies common sense. What would be the purpose of a hardware fuse that tripped when any update is applied? Knox is there so that enterprises can check whether a device has been tampered with and deny certain functionality if that has happened. This wouldn't work if it were tripped by authorised updates.

    There are threads here and in other forums that show that Knox is not tripped by standard updates or flashing stock ROMs (although there are limited examples where this has happened - they are very much the minority).

    Added to which, there have been conflicting statements made by Samsung and its representatives over the implications of Knox 0x1. Some have said that all warranties are void. Some that warranty may not be refused if the problem is unequivocally unconnected with rooting/installing a 3rd party ROM (e.g. the home button breaking). The situation is far from clear and concerns over the implications of tripping the Knox fuse will remain well-founded until there is an authoritative statement from Samsung that Knox 0x1 will never void the hardware warranty and such a statement has not yet been made and probably never will be.
    1
    Your factory warranty will not be voided if you simply root you device. A simple OTA update (say too Kit kat, from approved channels) WILL trip KNOX. My wife's stock 8" got the update through Samsung and the fuse tripped. Those of you *****ing about it are going to sure be red when you do update to KitKat and find out its been tripped. I work for a legacy company that only uses secure devices. That's why we have KNOX, its not for a witch hunt to find out who has rooted what and wiggle out of the warranty. Unless you change how the CPU works ( overclocking and such) that can damage the device, that is a different story. But simply rooting without any additional adjustments other than program removal, debloating or changing how buttons work will not void your manufacturers warranty.

    This has been bugging me for while.
    Sorry.
    Back to Star trek.

    https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog...ox-enabled-devices-and-knox-warranty-void-bit

    https://www.samsungknox.com/en/blog/about-cf-auto-root

    Sent from my SM-P600 using xda app-developers app

    In download mode it quite clearly reads "warranty is void". Now if that message will be honored by the manufacturer and/or vendor (it) is another story altogether. But as far as the device knows the warranty *is* Void and none of your links deny that.

    Now knox , may well have been designed for corporate security, sure, but that doesn't stop Samsung to also use it to deny paying for warranties. You , can call it a scheme as much as you want, but there is not one official source to deny that.

    Was the knox wire tripped from official update? Bummer, no warranty for you...
    1
    Samsung in Scandinavia (Samsung Nordic office) has confirmed that a tripped knox is auto void warranty ... :(

    A friend of mine works for a major tech importer (they sell to retailers, but also handle a good deal of the warranty shipping/repairs etc) for the scandinavian countries and according to him the support dept is supposed to check if the knox fuse is 0X0 before they do anything with the device. Major bummer!!
    1
    Upgrading my Note 3 from stock 4.3 to stock 4.4 most definitely did NOT trip my Knox counter. There would be no reason for that to happen, since Knox checks for non-Samsung firmware, and an update sent out by Samsung is (obviously) Samsung firmware.