Hardware Hacking x201 : IP67 Compliance

Would you buy a kit to make your TrueSmart REALLY IP67 compliant?

  • Yes, I'd pay $15-25 for a self-installed kit.

    Votes: 58 85.3%
  • Yes, I'd pay $25-50 for a pro-installed kit.

    Votes: 8 11.8%
  • No, $25 is too much.

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • No, I'm not interested.

    Votes: 1 1.5%

  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .
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martinbogo1

Member
Mar 26, 2014
26
16
So, as we all know the Omate TrueSmart is as waterproof as a leaky boat, or perhaps a sponge.

However, I don't think there are any other Horologists on the forum at the moment. ( wikipedia horologist http:// en.wikipedia.org /wiki/horologist ).

After looking at the "seals" on the case buttons, and the laughable o-ring that Umeox/Omate have chosen to use on the back, along with the piece of silicone flap that they are using to seal the SIM card... I have to say that expecting it to be water resistant to any degree is a bit laughable.

So, I have a solution, the same one used by Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Citizen, Seiko, etc.. etc...

* Liquid silicone sealant gel on the SIM card seal and flap.
* Replace the silicone o-rings for the watch back with a thin silicone gasket, with more sealant gel
* Retrofit and replace the button seals, or create black silicone button covers that better seal them

I'm going to have to look at the speaker port on the watchband. I don't know if there is a simple solution there to make it compliant for 1 meter depth without severely affecting the quality of the sound output from that port. A brief examination makes it seem that the port -might- be able to take IP67 conditions .. but without reinforcement, I doubt it could take the forces involved in a swim, waves, wakes, spas.

Still, I think I can put together a kit, and instructions that careful and diligent people could use to retrofit the TrueSmart to make it far more waterproof than the manufacturer does. The kit would cost between $15 and $25 US, mostly to cover the cost of making custom molds for the silicone gaskets. ( There is a local TechShop here in Austin, and I have a CNC mill to make the aluminum molds, and all the design experience and software I need. Even so, a small super-accurate mold is a couple hundred dollars worth of materials and work. )

If there is enough interest evidenced here on a poll, I'll make the kit.

Sincerely,
Martin Bogomolni
Maker, Horologist, Coder, and Machinist
 

kilroo

Member
Jul 8, 2011
30
9
I've read that the O-rings are different among different runs. If the shape of the part of the case they fit against is different as well, wouldn't that make this effort require potentially as many different molds as the number of firmwares Loki has been trying to contend with? Or is it just the ring that's been different?
 

trent999

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2013
785
165
I think, just an opinion, that if the gasket between the body and the back cover has holes for the screws to pass through it like on my Last of the Kickstarter Dev Eds, 1/8/1900, delivered first of the USA group in early Feb, then that gasket works if properly placed and screwed together. The housing on these is flat, without raised screw hole posts and no groove.

I think the main problem you are going to need to overcome is the buttons and the mic pinhole leaking.

The speaker, if it doesn't mind getting wet itself, provides no entry path into the body if the wire set going in has been properly sealed inside (white sealant on mine, I think). Water could destroy the speaker, OK maybe, but not the watch unless it can follow the speaker connections back up into the body. Where the band halves meet the body on both sides there is a hole through the body to let the cables through, sealed inside with some white stuff. Maybe sealed...

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

trent999

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2013
785
165
What is that open slot for then, in the band on the speaker side ?

Where the sound comes out ?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

Helgaiden

Senior Member
Aug 11, 2010
191
7
Yes I was also curious about how the waterproofness of the speaker and microphone port would be approached. But I'm definitely down for one of these.
 

fg

Senior Member
Aug 3, 2006
123
27
For what it's worth, I've submerged (no more than 2ft) my NA 1gb/8gb OTS and used it in the shower after having opened the bottom. During the first week I was constantly checking inside the case for internal moisture and didn't see any. It's been a while, but I remember thinking the physical buttons looked like they would let water in if used while underwater, but that didn't seem to happen.


for giggles, my omate arrived with bad software, and only pulling the battery would fix it. I had first tried letting the battery die out but the vcom drivers didn't fully take until i pulled the battery, so the water seal warranty was moot from early on. I don't remember how long I waited, but I sent the following screen to cecilia and a few other mailboxes at omate for help with no response (surprise!) before pulling the battery and stepping through the restore guides.

Looking back, I can't even imagine how the bootloader got to be so trashed! Volume up and down you say?
 

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RedHerring

New member
Jun 25, 2010
4
0
Yep

I'm definitely in support of this. I created a kayaking app that is pretty useless with the watch the way it is... having this kit out there would be great.
 

DerUhrmacher

New member
Mar 28, 2014
1
0
Hi. I am a watchmaker (horlogist?) from Germany and its my daily job to make watches watertight.
I have access to professional measuring devices for checking the watches if they are sealed. It is testet via air pressure, no water. The watchcase deformation is measured by fine sensors and if it is deforming in the given parameters then the device says proof or leak. There are ranges from -0,8 Bar to +20 Bar.
Further tests to locate the leak are made with water tests.
I havent received my pre ordered true smart yet (but I own a simvalley AW-414.go). Before I would test the true smart I would like to know how much pressure it could take before the screen brakes.
 

lphovercraft

Member
Feb 14, 2014
44
22
Los Angeles, CA
After the long wait and seeing this IPx7 drama unfold, I decided to just flip my TrueSmart on delivery - and flog it on eBay/Amazon without ever opening the box. Depending on the delivery timeline and other factors (such as the impending release of the Polar V800 and Garmin fenix 2) I may reconsider that strategy if this "aftermarket waterproofing" plan gains momentum.

I checked the option to be willing to pay for professional install (having waited this long - and the fact that the V800 is another $100 more expensive than the TrueSmart) but I'm more than happy to do the install myself if the kit is solid. From what I gather in the initial post, it's going to be a far sight better than the factory seal. So, if I keep my TrueSmart I'd be in for either the home install or the pro install option.

FWIW - I could care less about using this phone in **** Tracy mode [trademark pending]. For my money, stuff a grommet in the ports and glue/seal them in place - my goal is to use the device for training.
 
Last edited:

Lokifish Marz

Inactive Recognized Developer
Mar 13, 2011
3,848
3,748
Olympus Mons, Mars
martian-imperium.com
HThe watchcase deformation is measured by fine sensors and if it is deforming in the given parameters then the device says proof or leak. There are ranges from -0,8 Bar to +20 Bar.

In a pressurized submersion test it will fill with water before anything else. The case was never tested beyond about 0.015 Bar and even then it wasn't tested properly (bare case, no buttons or straps and all the ports sealed in 15cm of water).

Them doing something as simple as not putting in the speaker right or the double sided tape not seal correctly on the speaker will negate any water resistance it may have had.
 

voz79

Member
Apr 16, 2008
14
1
I would definitely be interested in a kit to improve waterproofing...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
 

trent999

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2013
785
165
Me too ! I don't see a survey, maybe Tapatalk does not support surveys ?

I bought a NeverWet spray set from HomeDePot recently. They show how to treat an iPhone 5 by removing the back cover and spraying inside. I don't have an iPhone or I might try it. Wouldn't care...the stuff worked pretty good on my shoes though.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

ignorantguru

New member
Jan 10, 2007
4
0
In the meantime...

Hi horologists,

I was wondering: is there anything a layman could do in the meantime to, at least, improve the water sealing on the TrueSmart? I'm not interested in submerging it or taking a shower; I just don't want to be afraid that my watch will short if I get stuck in rain and put it in my pocket.

One of the things I obviously don't want to be doing is just smearing vaseline all over it as that'll ruin the silicone components, correct? I am currently purchasing silicone grease (dielectric so non-conductive) to improve the seals on the bottom and around the sim card case. What should I do about the buttons? Can I put more grease around their edges? Would vaseline be apprpriate there, since it's coming in contact with my skin and there seems to be no silicone gaskets? What's the best quick fix for buttons?

Sorry if these questions are stupid but... this is admittedly coming from a place of utter ignorance. : )

Take care and thanks very much.
 

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  • 6
    Status Update:

    I have found four different versions of the TrueSmart watch so far, as far as important considerations for seals/gaskets and kits are concerned.

    So far I:

    • Tested a silicone lubricant for water proofing the seals
    • Modeled a soft, flexible and wider silicone seal to replace the small O-ring seal on the watch back cover.
    • Button cap covers have been handed to a 3D CAD designing service to make a mold with.
    • Am Investigating how water resistant the speaker grill is, and the audio slot in the watch band.

    Assuming there are ~100 people willing to purchase kits, it seems the production of a waterproofing kit is viable. I may have to look into either doing an indigogo or kickstarter though. Ironic that we need ANOTHER kickstarter to repair the watch, but there you go.

    -Martin
    5
    So, as we all know the Omate TrueSmart is as waterproof as a leaky boat, or perhaps a sponge.

    However, I don't think there are any other Horologists on the forum at the moment. ( wikipedia horologist http:// en.wikipedia.org /wiki/horologist ).

    After looking at the "seals" on the case buttons, and the laughable o-ring that Umeox/Omate have chosen to use on the back, along with the piece of silicone flap that they are using to seal the SIM card... I have to say that expecting it to be water resistant to any degree is a bit laughable.

    So, I have a solution, the same one used by Rolex, Omega, Breitling, Citizen, Seiko, etc.. etc...

    * Liquid silicone sealant gel on the SIM card seal and flap.
    * Replace the silicone o-rings for the watch back with a thin silicone gasket, with more sealant gel
    * Retrofit and replace the button seals, or create black silicone button covers that better seal them

    I'm going to have to look at the speaker port on the watchband. I don't know if there is a simple solution there to make it compliant for 1 meter depth without severely affecting the quality of the sound output from that port. A brief examination makes it seem that the port -might- be able to take IP67 conditions .. but without reinforcement, I doubt it could take the forces involved in a swim, waves, wakes, spas.

    Still, I think I can put together a kit, and instructions that careful and diligent people could use to retrofit the TrueSmart to make it far more waterproof than the manufacturer does. The kit would cost between $15 and $25 US, mostly to cover the cost of making custom molds for the silicone gaskets. ( There is a local TechShop here in Austin, and I have a CNC mill to make the aluminum molds, and all the design experience and software I need. Even so, a small super-accurate mold is a couple hundred dollars worth of materials and work. )

    If there is enough interest evidenced here on a poll, I'll make the kit.

    Sincerely,
    Martin Bogomolni
    Maker, Horologist, Coder, and Machinist
    3
    Its too impractical Lokifish. I tried, and its utterly impractical... And I put serious effort and money into the attempt.
    2
    Omate Truesmart not IP67, see why in video...

    I would have liked to read before you take a shower with my TS!
    She drowned! I completely disassembled to find out why.
    I made a little video which clearly gives the reason:
    "youtube.com/user/StevesenAcLille/videos"
    (It is in French, but the pictures speak for it themselves)
    best regards
    1
    It's always worth improving what you have!!! One of the reasons that the XDA forums exist is to give new life to android devices that are flawed, past their prime, or whose manufacturers stopped supporting them.

    I have CyanogenMod 10.1 running on my HTC One V. That's KITKAT on a One V. With only one problem, native camera support.

    This is a tough challenge, for a lot of reasons. I now have measurements on at least four variants (and someone may have found a fifth!)

    I have solutions for the following issues now:

    * Antenna penetrations to watchband
    * Back case o-ring is too small to be effective
    * Screw "washer/gaskets" are tiny and break apart
    * SIM card flap / screws are leaky

    I am still working on a set of very hard problems:

    * Speaker grille is open to the air, no seals
    * Watch buttons break easily
    * Watch buttons have no silicone seal

    From an engineering standpoint, these are hard things to retrofit if the designer didn't bother to try in the first place. However, I do see evidence on my recently shipped watch that some effort was spent on trying to seal things up. This gives me a bit of hope that I can finish the job right.

    --Martin