why you should NOT turn s-on!

scuccia · May 30, 2014

Thanks for the info Scotty, I removed the s-on command from my post.

I'm just going to use the stock rooted RUU and send it back that way with root removed.

Is there any point in relocking it and keeping it s-off versus having it unlocked and s-off?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

Black Antitoon · May 31, 2014

I have a question for @scotty1223 or anybody willing to answer it.

The reasons why one shouldn't go back to S-ON are clear. However, this kind of soft brick should in theory be fixable by unlocking the phone with HTCDev, right? The problem here is only that this is not allowed on Verizon phones. Is this correct?

Also, is it clear what is exactly preventing the phone from booting? Is it just that "tampered" and "locked" can't live together?

I realize that in any case there seem to be no good reasons for going back to S-ON, I am only curious to understand better what happens behind the scenes.

Thanks!

Zwitterion · Jun 1, 2014

This is why I will not S-ON until an official RUU is made available. Once that exists then we WILL will reliably be able to S-ON after flashing with that RUU.

I can see the use for a faux hboot in the situation where someone is returning a device for warranty where the defect is completely unrelated to firmware alteration -- a defective speaker, for example -- and is genuinely entitled to a replacement.

dag07968 · Jun 1, 2014

scotty1223 said:
java card would definately fix him up also goodpoint on the supercid... @dag07968 are you perchance supercid?

Unfortunately no I'm not. I also read this post AFTER doing what I did lol that will teach me. I just went to Verizon and bought one outright. Asurion is going to re emburse me minus the deductible. For now I'm leaving this completely stock. Maybe I can get a java card or hopefully they will release an official RUU one day and I can bring the other one back to life. Thank you very much for all your information and help on this.

andybones · Jun 1, 2014

dag07968 said:
Unfortunately no I'm not. I also read this post AFTER doing what I did lol that will teach me. I just went to Verizon and bought one outright. Asurion is going to re emburse me minus the deductible. For now I'm leaving this completely stock. Maybe I can get a java card or hopefully they will release an official RUU one day and I can bring the other one back to life. Thank you very much for all your information and help on this.

you can get a java card..
But for around $800-$1,000

Seems like Verizon is making HTC not release RUU prob because they know we NEED it in a sense lol

scuccia · Jun 1, 2014

So I talked to jcase and he said that you can s-on the VZW M8 and that he has set his back successfully. I think the key is to have a fully stock ROM (/system without root and /data/preload) and use weaksauce to reset the bootloader locked status and tamper flag.

I dumped the system partition from a fully stock M8 (s-on) and flashed that to my s-off M8. I then flashed the firmware zip from the latest OTA which set the hboot, recovery, etc back to stock.

I then installed weaksauce to gain root and reset the bootloader status back to locked.

It's currently 100% stock with s-off (locked) and I'm not getting any red text or tamped warnings on boot.

I believe that using weaksauce instead of a stock ROM with root at the system level is the key difference compared to what others have tried in this thread. Dag used the stock rooted RUU which has root at the system level, gaining root with weaksauce does not modify the system partition at all.

Jcase says that I'm safe to set my phone back to s-on at this point, but I'm just going to send it back the way it is. Just wanted to put it out there that people have successfully set their VZW M8s back to s-on.

scotty1223 · Jun 1, 2014

Black Antitoon said:
I have a question for @scotty1223 or anybody willing to answer it.

The reasons why one shouldn't go back to S-ON are clear. However, this kind of soft brick should in theory be fixable by unlocking the phone with HTCDev, right? The problem here is only that this is not allowed on Verizon phones. Is this correct?

Also, is it clear what is exactly preventing the phone from booting? Is it just that "tampered" and "locked" can't live together?

I realize that in any case there seem to be no good reasons for going back to S-ON, I am only curious to understand better what happens behind the scenes.

Thanks!

that is correct. its part of htc's security checks,if it finds something it does not like,the phone is locked into bootloader until its re-unlocked(impossible with vzw) and able to run a custom OS,or restored to stock via an ruu

andybones said:
you can get a java card..
But for around $800-$1,000

Seems like Verizon is making HTC not release RUU prob because they know we NEED it in a sense lol

vzw has always been stingy with their ruus,and whomever used to leak them back in the thunderbolt/rezound days either stoped for some reason or got fired for doing so,lol.

unfortunately,the ruus are the property of carriers,not htc.

scuccia said:
So I talked to jcase and he said that you can s-on the VZW M8 and that he has set his back successfully. I think the key is to have a fully stock ROM (/system without root and /data/preload) and use weaksauce to reset the bootloader locked status and tamper flag.

I dumped the system partition from a fully stock M8 (s-on) and flashed that to my s-off M8. I then flashed the firmware zip from the latest OTA which set the hboot, recovery, etc back to stock.

I then installed weaksauce to gain root and reset the bootloader status back to locked.

It's currently 100% stock with s-off (locked) and I'm not getting any red text or tamped warnings on boot.

I believe that using weaksauce instead of a stock ROM with root at the system level is the key difference compared to what others have tried in this thread. Dag used the stock rooted RUU which has root at the system level, gaining root with weaksauce does not modify the system partition at all.

Jcase says that I'm safe to set my phone back to s-on at this point, but I'm just going to send it back the way it is. Just wanted to put it out there that people have successfully set their VZW M8s back to s-on.

sure its possible to s on. if everything is fine,youll be ok. if not,youll end up tampered and locked with a security warning

i personally would not risk it,regardless of who has done it successfully,you may not have the same results.

after all,folks should be able to s on after running a decrypted ruu that in theory contains all the same images as an signed one.as ive said, we have no idea why the tampered banner returns after a couple factory resets.

i have based the opinions expressed here on numerous cases ive seen with the same end result as dag,not just his one case. ive been using him as an example(not meaning him any disrespect) just because hes posted here.

scuccia said:
Thanks for the info Scotty, I removed the s-on command from my post.

I'm just going to use the stock rooted RUU and send it back that way with root removed.

Is there any point in relocking it and keeping it s-off versus having it unlocked and s-off?

Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk

i personally would lock it. s off does not mean youve messed with it. unlocked or relocked are a pretty good indicator,as phones dont comethat way unless they come out as a replacement after being "refurbished"

scuccia · Jun 1, 2014

scotty1223 said:
i personally would lock it. s off does not mean youve messed with it. unlocked or relocked are a pretty good indicator,as phones dont comethat way unless they come out as a replacement after being "refurbished"

That's exactly what I'm doing, completely stock, locked and s-off.

I just went one step further than some others and pulled the partitions from my replacement device since the only RUU we have comes with root. I know that it can be removed but I felt safer this way because I know with 100% certainty that it is totally unmodified.

dottat · Jun 1, 2014

scuccia said:
That's exactly what I'm doing, completely stock, locked and s-off.

I just went one step further than some others and pulled the partitions from my replacement device since the only RUU we have comes with root. I know that it can be removed but I felt safer this way because I know with 100% certainty that it is totally unmodified.

You do know that you can simply remove root right? Open the su app and go to settings. Click the full unroot option.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

GetRipped · Jun 1, 2014

Just don't risk it guys. There's really no point anyways... Other than satisfying your extremely paranoid side. There's a good chance that no one st HTC will ever check your boatloader, and most Verizon reps won't even know how. And besides.. Even if they see s-off, if your ROM is stock and unrooted no one will make a fuss. You're not getting investigated by Sherlock Holmes here.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

scuccia · Jun 1, 2014

dottat said:
You do know that you can simply remove root right? Open the su app and go to settings. Click the full unroot option.

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

I know you can do that. but I'm not sure what else was modified so I just dumped the partition myself.

That's just how I am, if I can do it myself and know that its right, then that's what I'll do. Plus we've seen Dag use that an go back to s-on and it didn't work.

Jcase told me how he did it so that's what I did, minus the s-on step.

dottat · Jun 1, 2014

scuccia said:
I know you can do that. but I'm not sure what else was modified so I just dumped the partition myself.

That's just how I am, if I can do it myself and know that its right, then that's what I'll do. Plus we've seen Dag use that an go back to s-on and it didn't work.

Jcase told me how he did it so that's what I did, minus the s-on step.

In the case of that ruu nothing else is modified. Just su installed.

Sent from my HTC6600LVW using Tapatalk

scuccia · Jun 1, 2014

dottat said:
In the case of that ruu nothing else is modified. Just su installed.

Sent from my HTC6600LVW using Tapatalk

I had originally planned on going back to s-on so I wanted to start with an entirely stock ROM/firmware and use temp root to lock the bootloader.

You are correct though... I just downloaded your RUU, extracted the system.img file and compared it to my partition dump. The only differences are the files related to root. I also verified that all of the files are removed when you use the 'Full unroot' option in SuperSU.

Thanks for making that RUU by the way, its a great resource to have since VZW/HTC are trying extra hard to prevent an RUU leak.

scotty1223 · Jun 2, 2014

another optiuon worth exploring to restore everything to 100% stock would be to simply dump mmcblk0(not mmcblk0px)

that dumps everything in one big huge file. in theory.restoring it later would fix every last little detail that had been modded. on m7,you may need a 64gb phone to do it. on m8,youll have to dump that to an external sd,as its larger than what the phone storage can hold.

be aware that its a very slow process,and your phone isnt hung,so resist all urges to unplug,lick,or pester it

i personally dumped all partitions individually,then the big dump right after s off,with su installed but everything else untouched.

Zwitterion · Jun 2, 2014

Scotty, could there be an implementation of this in some fashion? Perhaps a more complete RUU than dottat's (excellent) efforts?

Have keys ever been leaked such that custom RUU's could be built and then signed? This would alleviate S-ON issues, as a signed RUU could be regardless of status.

scotty1223 said:
another optiuon worth exploring to restore everything to 100% stock would be to simply dump mmcblk0(not mmcblk0px)

that dumps everything in one big huge file. in theory.restoring it later would fix every last little detail that had been modded. on m7,you may need a 64gb phone to do it. on m8,youll have to dump that to an external sd,as its larger than what the phone storage can hold.

be aware that its a very slow process,and your phone isnt hung,so resist all urges to unplug,lick,or pester it

i personally dumped all partitions individually,then the big dump right after s off,with su installed but everything else untouched.

scotty1223 · Jun 3, 2014

godhamba said:
Scotty, could there be an implementation of this in some fashion? Perhaps a more complete RUU than dottat's (excellent) efforts?

Have keys ever been leaked such that custom RUU's could be built and then signed? This would alleviate S-ON issues, as a signed RUU could be regardless of status.

Dottats ruus are as good they get,for being home made. M7 has an official,decrypted ruu which is literally no different and yet this problem still exists.

One could certainly dd mmcblk0,then dd it back in efforts to restore to stock,but with a vzw device there's always that risk as long as they're keeping devices off the unlock list.

No keys have ever been leaked that I am aware of. HTC employees lose their jobs over things like that

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Zwitterion · Jun 3, 2014

Holy Crap! Thank god I flashed my M7 with the signed RUU before getting warranty service. I can't imagine a signed RUU resulting in a *tampered*. But I'm glad you posted this thread - it makes me realize that getting safely back to S-ON isn't simply a guaranteed thing, though it's often discussed as if it is.

I would think that HTC employees could lose their jobs for leaking RUUs but that still happens, no? Then again, what the hell do I know.

scotty1223 said:
Dottats ruus are as good they get,for being home made. M7 has an official,decrypted ruu which is literally no different and yet this problem still exists.

One could certainly dd mmcblk0,then dd it back in efforts to restore to stock,but with a vzw device there's always that risk as long as they're keeping devices off the unlock list.

No keys have ever been leaked that I am aware of. HTC employees lose their jobs over things like that

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

lucky_strike33 · Jun 6, 2014

I'm sending my phone to HTC for one time cracked screen phone replacement. Should I just relock the device and leave soff??

My All New One

davidmatt34 · Jun 6, 2014

So if I have an M8 with S-on would I be able to do that and restore another M8 with S-off? If so what is the correct syntax for ADB?

Black Antitoon · Jun 6, 2014

lucky_strike33 said:
I'm sending my phone to HTC for one time cracked screen phone replacement. Should I just relock the device and leave soff??

My All New One

You might want to read this thread: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2767547

And, in particular, this post: http://xdaforums.com/showpost.php?p=53105706&postcount=20

Long story short: HTC is showing to be very picky in the US with the Advantage program, and refusing to repair screens for free even if you just unlocked the phone. However, the guy there had the screen repaired for free being 100% stock but S-OFF. Which doesn't mean that you will for sure, but is encouraging.

why you should NOT turn s-on!

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Member

Retired Forum Moderator / Inactive RD

Senior Member

Inactive Recognized Contributor

Senior Member

Retired Forum Moderator

Senior Member

Senior Member

Retired Forum Moderator

Senior Member

Inactive Recognized Contributor

Senior Member

Inactive Recognized Contributor

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Similar threads

Top Liked Posts