What's wrong with Sony's G-lens? Picture analysis

BoneXDA · Feb 28, 2014

I don't have to tell you how Android phones suffer on camera SW side, but while the Z1 improved on the Z's problematic image quality, it introduced unexpected issues in optics. The G-lens is a multi-element plastic lens system, and something inside the design and arrangement causes certain areas of the image to lose sharpness, Z1 owners know this. Unfortunately, while Sony's sure to work on image quality improvements, the optics of the Z2 are unchanged, here is a picture analysis.

This is a downsampled Z2 image taken at 8MP (Auto Mode), because it's reduced to 40% of original pixel size, it should be super sharp (and not over-sharpened) at ALL AREAS, cause if this photo is not sharp, how the full 20MP result would look?

http://www.xataka.com/galeria/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/2/

1) But anyways, details in the middle are quite good, highly detailed, although you can spot quite a sharpening, but tolerable at this resolution (100% crop)

2) Moving just a bit away from the middle however, and look at how the buildings, trees, construction site are all of the sudden soft and lack of accurate focus

3) The left middle side of the lens is worst, this image would be just as sharp as in the middle on a say Samesong Note 3, LG Pro 2, iPhone 5S, Lumia 1520 whatever. Remind you this is still a crop from an 8MPs image, not 20, full size would have the same amount of detail spread over 2,5 larger area!

4) The left bottom corner is... relatively sharp again? Huh?

Right now Sony has a monumental mountain to climb to make their SW for their great sensor work reliable, cause the Z1 is not, it's not too high on detail either, and is badly over-processed (sharpening, noise reduction). But even if they get it right, optical issues won't go away, something is just wrong with the G-lens that is not addressed on the Z2, which is a pity.

se1000 · Feb 28, 2014

Really? Pixel peeping on a cameraphone?! Something like this could have easily been a fingerprint or smudge on only half of the front lens cover.

kantk20111 · Feb 28, 2014

Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'. The corners of the image sensor is always the softest. Its not a Sony issue.

hikashi · Feb 28, 2014

Relax man. Had a Z1 myself and the lens rather soft on the corner at times, probably due to the f2.3 apeture.
But the blur on the middle right, the guy was taking aerial photo in behind the glass of a helicopter, so blur might present due to the helicopter panel.

BoneXDA · Feb 28, 2014

kantk20111 said:
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'. The corners of the image sensor is always the softest. Its not a Sony issue.

Yes it is. There is no softness around on a say iPhone 5S or Galaxy S4 Exmor RS, if the subject is sharp, the image is sharp all around. It is an undeniably crippling feature of the Z1, and apparently the Z2, and anyone with any sense of photography can spot these issues, see some Sony forums. I'm expecting a quality discussion here not "ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".

kantk20111 · Feb 28, 2014

BoneXDA said:
Yes it is. There is no softness around on a say iPhone 5S or Galaxy S4 Exmor RS, if the subject is sharp, the image is sharp all around. It is an undeniably crippling feature of the Z1, and apparently the Z2, and anyone with any sense of photography can spot these issues, see some Sony forums. I'm expecting a quality discussion here not "ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".

What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'? I stated my opinion, and it's true. I'm a pretty avid photographer, I have a Nikon D7100 and have a decent eye for photography. My D7100 with the 18-105 lens has the same problems at large aperture. Granted it's not as bad as the Z1's, but the softness is still there. Large aperture lenses have softness on the corners. I guarantee you will find the same result with the 5S or S4.

I could show you pictures that came out perfectly with my Z1 as well with none of the problems you mentioned. There are a ton of reasons why you could have got that blurriness in the middle. The camera lens could've been smudged, they might've got a bad phone, or, most probably, the guy was taking pictures out of a helicopter which was moving and might have had smudges on the window?

Let's take a look at another picture in this set:http://img.xataka.com/galleries/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/DSC_0046.JPG

Overall, it's a bit soft, but the random blurriness you mentioned is not present. Detail is sharp at the center and fuzzy at the edges, just like any camera, but the random blurs are not there. Why? Because the picture you showed was an abnormality.

liliha · Mar 1, 2014

This plagued my old Z also, thought it was a smudge or lens had become scuffed but this was not the case. I thought it was an isolated problem but this is a big concern as im eyeing the Z2 (obviously)

aznracer62 · Mar 1, 2014

kantk20111 said:
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'? I stated my opinion, and it's true. I'm a pretty avid photographer, I have a Nikon D7100 and have a decent eye for photography. My D7100 with the 18-105 lens has the same problems at large aperture. Granted it's not as bad as the Z1's, but the softness is still there. Large aperture lenses have softness on the corners. I guarantee you will find the same result with the 5S or S4.

I could show you pictures that came out perfectly with my Z1 as well with none of the problems you mentioned. There are a ton of reasons why you could have got that blurriness in the middle. The camera lens could've been smudged, they might've got a bad phone, or, most probably, the guy was taking pictures out of a helicopter which was moving and might have had smudges on the window?

Let's take a look at another picture in this set:http://img.xataka.com/galleries/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/DSC_0046.JPG

Overall, it's a bit soft, but the random blurriness you mentioned is not present. Detail is sharp at the center and fuzzy at the edges, just like any camera, but the random blurs are not there. Why? Because the picture you showed was an abnormality.

I'm also a photographer, and even when using L glass (yea I have a Canon, screw you Nikon...just kidding) there will be abnormalities. The z1 takes great photos. The blur is no big deal. It is just a phone. Now if my $2,000+ lens gave me these problems...that's another story lol

Sent from my LG Optimus G using xda app-developers app

BoneXDA · Mar 1, 2014

kantk20111 said:
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'?

Please stop trolling my thread. This is a camera lens discussion thread. Don't reply to this.

liliha said:
This plagued my old Z also, thought it was a smudge or lens had become scuffed but this was not the case. I thought it was an isolated problem but this is a big concern as im eyeing the Z2 (obviously)

Thank you for a reasonable response, Sony won't address the issue if ppl. play down the lens problems. Interestingly zoom lenses suffer from similar issues, but phones have fixed focal length, so there should be no softness all over the place. Unfortunately there is, I'll be looking to add full-size photos, maybe a few Z1s.

kantk20111 · Mar 1, 2014

BoneXDA said:
Please stop trolling my thread. This is a camera lens discussion thread. Don't reply to this.
.

...did you seriously ignore the rest of my post because of that? I wrote that to reply directly to what you said.

BoneXDA said:
"ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".

If you don't have a response to my actual argument, don't reply, and don't call me a troll.

GuestK00192 · Mar 1, 2014

kantk20111 said:
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'.

Nope.

The OP sample is terrible even for a phone. As for DSLRs, even the cheapest ones with a kit lens will give you amazing results compare to this.

kantk20111 · Mar 1, 2014

Relayers said:
Nope.

The OP sample is terrible even for a phone. As for DSLRs, even the cheapest ones with a kit lens will give you amazing results compare to this.

Well, obviously, but the corners/edges of an image are the softest part of the image, that's a fact. The level of softness depends on the quality of the lens, which is why it doesn't make much of a difference in DSLRs. OP's sample is very poor but probably not a problem due to the lens.

BoneXDA · Mar 1, 2014

kantk20111 said:
Well, obviously, but the corners/edges of an image are the softest part of the image, that's a fact. The level of softness depends on the quality of the lens, which is why it doesn't make much of a difference in DSLRs. OP's sample is very poor but probably not a problem due to the lens.

Its almost certainly a lens issue, maybe not all G-lenses are equal, but having read through extensive Z1 & Z1 Compact reviews, quite a few spot those soft areas. It's hard to see the software causing it, cause why are other parts sharper? But since there's a lot of noise filtering and sharpening going on, and manual and superior auto results can differ quite a bit, I can't rule that out.

kantk20111 · Mar 1, 2014

BoneXDA said:
Its almost certainly a lens issue, maybe not all G-lenses are equal, but having read through extensive Z1 & Z1 Compact reviews, quite a few spot those soft areas. It's hard to see the software causing it, cause why are other parts sharper? But since there's a lot of noise filtering and sharpening going on, and manual and superior auto results can differ quite a bit, I can't rule that out.

I took these two pictures seconds from each other, about 10 minutes ago. The blurrier one with the soft spots you mentioned was taken with Superior Auto. The sharper and brighter one was taken in manual, ISO 400 and +0.7 EV. Other than the slightly overblown whites in the manual one due to the increased EV, it's much sharper and has none of the soft spots you mentioned. I should mention that this was in reasonable low light, taken with the blinds down.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. There is nothing wrong with the G lens. The softness you mention is because of the software. Superior auto causes extreme compression as well as being very conservative with ISO levels leading to a fuzzy image. I have more examples comparing SA to manual and the trend remains. The Z1 hardware is more than capable. It is let down by a very poor auto mode.

BoneXDA · Mar 1, 2014

Can you share the full-size photos?

kantk20111 · Mar 1, 2014

BoneXDA said:
Can you share the full-size photos?

http://speedyshare.com/v8u7y/DSC-0086.JPG

http://speedyshare.com/nqQhB/DSC-0087.JPG

BoneXDA · Mar 1, 2014

kantk20111 said:
http://speedyshare.com/v8u7y/DSC-0086.JPG

http://speedyshare.com/nqQhB/DSC-0087.JPG

Can't analyze too much there, superior out choose much higher ISO (2000 vs manual's 400), of course it's softer. But the subject on my shot (city) is properly focused and sharp... in some parts, soft in others. So if you have full 20MP photos with high background details, I'd have a look at it. So far, the Z2 shows sharpness inconsistencies, will post other photos if I find them.

rency_0722 · Mar 2, 2014

BoneXDA said:
Can't analyze too much there, superior out choose much higher ISO (2000 vs manual's 400), of course it's softer. But the subject on my shot (city) is properly focused and sharp... in some parts, soft in others. So if you have full 20MP photos with high background details, I'd have a look at it. So far, the Z2 shows sharpness inconsistencies, will post other photos if I find them.

Well for that, I can say Z2's SW is still not in its stable mode, but there are parts in my mind fighting that the Z2's camera SW is the same with the current Z1's camera SW. But well, this is in 4.4 KK so we never know if Sony has done again improvements (or maybe disruptions) with the camera SW.

Expect camera SW to be the same once Z1 got its 4.4 KK. Dunno but SD801 on Z2 has dual ISP chips compared to single ones on 800 on Z1, also dunno if it is also contributing to that BIONZ for mobile "fake" better image processing.

PS: I have a Z1 and it's really great to be with Sony. Just expecting them to topple again on cameraphone making, just like what they did to K750i and K800i way way back its time.

opensourcenoob · Mar 2, 2014

Thank you for raising concern about the camera here.. Gonna stay and absorbing the discussion now...

While I am at it, will this lens problem affect video results as well?
Because Z2 now support 4k video recording right? Just asking because I think 4K is the future and it's nice to have a future-proof documentations..

Publicglutton · Mar 2, 2014

opensourcenoob said:
Thank you for raising concern about the camera here.. Gonna stay and absorbing the discussion now...

While I am at it, will this lens problem affect video results as well?
Because Z2 now support 4k video recording right? Just asking because I think 4K is the future and it's nice to have a future-proof documentations..

There isn't any concern

What's wrong with Sony's G-lens? Picture analysis

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