GPS Control Plane settings.. Possible GPS fix

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mpencexda

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2010
155
21
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone was familiar with the control plane option in SUPL settings.

The reason I ask is that I was playing around in the secret code area of SG Tools and noticed an area marked GPS
SGS Tools -> Secret Codes -> ServiceMode, Debug, Netz, Audio, Common -> Common -> GPS -> Display and Change CP Status.

I enabled the Control Plane and then set SUPL settings in lbstest to supl.google.com etc and change SUPL Mode to Control Plane. My gps has been crazy awesome since then. Also change application settings Accuracy to 25.. I do have the jupiter file gps fix installed but GPS would still loose me until I made these changes. I was hoping someone could explain Control Plane and or someone would test these settings for themselves and let me know how it works. I am running Axura Beta 5 with Setiron Kernel 1.4.2
 

norcal einstein

Senior Member
Jan 19, 2009
325
35
Bay Area
Not that I'm actually interested in this "fix", but is your "crazy awesome" GPS just giving you faster initial position locks?

Getting a position lock is one thing, but having the GPS actually be able to track your movement and be accurate is different...which many overlook when they say their GPS works. If you were to use to Captivate in the car to navigate with, would it be accurate? If you can say yes to that, you could consider your GPS working then.
 

mpencexda

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2010
155
21
Not that I'm actually interested in this "fix", but is your "crazy awesome" GPS just giving you faster initial position locks?

Getting a position lock is one thing, but having the GPS actually be able to track your movement and be accurate is different...which many overlook when they say their GPS works. If you were to use to Captivate in the car to navigate with, would it be accurate? If you can say yes to that, you could consider your GPS working then.

I am getting faster locks.. more sattelites.. I also tested while driving and it stayed good the entire time.. I am going to test again on my hour drive home tonight..


Sent from me to you over wires using only 1's and 0's
 

mpencexda

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2010
155
21
Also my main interest is in finding out more information on what this setting does as well. It is my opinion that this has helped and I wanted more imformation and also to see if it helps qnyone else..

Sent from me to you over wires using only 1's and 0's
 

drancid

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2010
1,031
129
Monterey Park
+1
I dunno why but set as control plane gives me more sats and faster locks even better tracking.
This is the first thing i do every time after flashing a new rom to my cappy.
ms base mode, google supl sever with control plane mode and secure socket off.


Sent from ATT Captivate operated by Perception build 5
 

mpencexda

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2010
155
21
+1
I dunno why but set as control plane gives me more sats and faster locks even better tracking.
This is the first thing i do every time after flashing a new rom to my cappy.
ms base mode, google supl sever with control plane mode and secure socket off.


Sent from ATT Captivate operated by Perception build 5

Have you checked to see if the control plane is enabled via sgstools?

Sent from me to you over wires using only 1's and 0's
 

Da_G

Inactive Senior RD / Moderator Emeritus
Aug 20, 2007
3,332
1,563
Riverside, CA
Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra
Control Plane is an alternative method of accessing the AGPS server from User Plane (SUPL). Control Plane goes over the cellular providers Control Plane (fancy that!) whereas SUPL goes out over the GPRS network (HSPA, 3G, etc.)

For Control Plane to work, the cellular provider has to have in place specific technology intended for use with AGPS. All older AGPS solutions prior to the deployment of SUPL use Control Plane. Basically it's "the old way"

Note that you can obtain the exact same AGPS data through a SUPL connection to the same set of servers AT&T maintains. This is the default setting for "Server FQDN Type" - AUTO Config.

Basically, setting it to AGPS Mode - Control Plane (regardless of other server settings) is the same as setting AGPS Mode - SUPL, SUPL Secure Socket - ON, Server - h-slp.mnc410.mcc310.pub.3gppnetwork.org, Server Port - 7275. AND is also the same as using "Server FQDN Type" - AUTO Config, providing your cellular provider is AT&T (MNC 410 MCC 310).

Note that the specifications for AUTO Config will read the MCC/MNC of your network provider (in my example above, AT&T) and change the mncXXX.mccYYY part to match your providers MNC/MCC. Per the 3gpp SUPL spec, when in a home network, the URL to access for SUPL services is h-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org, which breaks down to:

h-slp - Home SUPL Location Platform
mncXXX - MNC of the current network the phone is parked on
mccYYY - MCC of the current network the phone is parked on
pub.3gppnetwork.org - A (purposefully) un-registered domain name free for use by cellular providers.

When you are roaming, the URL changes to:
v-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org
where v-slp instead means Visiting SUPL Location Platform.

So, to sum that up, if your cellular provider is following 3gpp SUPL recommendations properly, when you attempt a SUPL connection to h-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org, your cellular provider should connect you to THEIR provided SUPL server. In the case of AT&T this is fully functional. Note that this will NOT work on Wi-Fi, the DNS will not resolve (since you aren't connected to a cellular network, the ISP you're on will not maintain a SUPL server for you, unless they are just THAT nice)

Note that if you use a program like MarketAccess to change your MNC/MCC to allow access to other markets, the SUPL address will also change (to reflect the altered MNC/MCC) and thus be broken in automatic mode.

Anywho, all of this only affects the initial lock time, when set to MS-Based. (Defaults on the stock ROM to standalone, which doesn't use AGPS at all, and sane people will use MS-Based)

Tracking once you have a lock should NOT be affected by any of these changes.

In case you're wondering where I got my information, it's not my first go-round to this particular party. I did all the legwork for this a bit over a year ago, and put up a compendium post about it in March 2009: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=489887 All the info I reference from the SUPL specifications is obtained by spending hours reading the actual, incredibly boring whitepapers.

I haven't had time to properly devote to the GPS problem for captivate like I have for previous WM devices (I just got the cappy), but i'm guessing there's some errors in either the satellite correlation done in the baseband, or in the driver's interpretation of the output in the kernel code. It might also be the case that the phone is relying on a clock generator that isn't putting out the exact cycles they have it programmed for, thus introducing clock drift into the correlation algorithm. The clock has to be precise and synced up to the GPS clocks in order to properly trilaterate location. This might explain the drift over time and then snapping back to a real location once the clocks are properly synced again. (GPS satellites send the complete information required to sync a clock accurately every 12.5 minutes.)

Do note that the clock i'm referring to is the internal GPS reference clock, which is not related in any way to the time set on the device. Internally, the device does keep track of the offset between GPS time and Device Time, but Device Time is not used in the GPS calculations (a different internal clock is used, and synced to the satellites themselves with each transmission) - Previously it has been suggested that ensuring the phones clock is as accurate as possible would make a difference, but that is not the case (due to it not being the same clock)

Either way, any changes to gps.conf or secgps.conf aren't gonna cut the mustard with this particular issue. Initial fix time and number of initial sats, sure. But once the GPS is fired up and running, and has time to pick up a constellation update from the satellites, you're in the same boat as anyone else.

BTW. You can read the adb logcat output to easily see if your phone is utilizing AGPS. You will get an initial fix with an accuracy of appx. 1500m and the log will show that it is not a GPS fix but instead a network provided location. It will then show this location being injected into the GPS driver (AGPS)
 

mpencexda

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2010
155
21
Thanks for the info.. that was amazing. I really hope that you get some time to devote to this as you seem informed


Sent from me to you over wires using only 1's and 0's
 

CLShortFuse

Retired Recognized Developer
Feb 28, 2007
684
944
Control Plane is an alternative method of accessing the AGPS server from User Plane (SUPL). Control Plane goes over the cellular providers Control Plane (fancy that!) whereas SUPL goes out over the GPRS network (HSPA, 3G, etc.)

For Control Plane to work, the cellular provider has to have in place specific technology intended for use with AGPS. All older AGPS solutions prior to the deployment of SUPL use Control Plane. Basically it's "the old way"

Note that you can obtain the exact same AGPS data through a SUPL connection to the same set of servers AT&T maintains. This is the default setting for "Server FQDN Type" - AUTO Config.

Basically, setting it to AGPS Mode - Control Plane (regardless of other server settings) is the same as setting AGPS Mode - SUPL, SUPL Secure Socket - ON, Server - h-slp.mnc410.mcc310.pub.3gppnetwork.org, Server Port - 7275. AND is also the same as using "Server FQDN Type" - AUTO Config, providing your cellular provider is AT&T (MNC 410 MCC 310).

Note that the specifications for AUTO Config will read the MCC/MNC of your network provider (in my example above, AT&T) and change the mncXXX.mccYYY part to match your providers MNC/MCC. Per the 3gpp SUPL spec, when in a home network, the URL to access for SUPL services is h-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org, which breaks down to:

h-slp - Home SUPL Location Platform
mncXXX - MNC of the current network the phone is parked on
mccYYY - MCC of the current network the phone is parked on
pub.3gppnetwork.org - A (purposefully) un-registered domain name free for use by cellular providers.

When you are roaming, the URL changes to:
v-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org
where v-slp instead means Visiting SUPL Location Platform.

So, to sum that up, if your cellular provider is following 3gpp SUPL recommendations properly, when you attempt a SUPL connection to h-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org, your cellular provider should connect you to THEIR provided SUPL server. In the case of AT&T this is fully functional. Note that this will NOT work on Wi-Fi, the DNS will not resolve (since you aren't connected to a cellular network, the ISP you're on will not maintain a SUPL server for you, unless they are just THAT nice)

Note that if you use a program like MarketAccess to change your MNC/MCC to allow access to other markets, the SUPL address will also change (to reflect the altered MNC/MCC) and thus be broken in automatic mode.

Anywho, all of this only affects the initial lock time, when set to MS-Based. (Defaults on the stock ROM to standalone, which doesn't use AGPS at all, and sane people will use MS-Based)

Tracking once you have a lock should NOT be affected by any of these changes.

In case you're wondering where I got my information, it's not my first go-round to this particular party. I did all the legwork for this a bit over a year ago, and put up a compendium post about it in March 2009: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=489887 All the info I reference from the SUPL specifications is obtained by spending hours reading the actual, incredibly boring whitepapers.

I haven't had time to properly devote to the GPS problem for captivate like I have for previous WM devices (I just got the cappy), but i'm guessing there's some errors in either the satellite correlation done in the baseband, or in the driver's interpretation of the output in the kernel code. It might also be the case that the phone is relying on a clock generator that isn't putting out the exact cycles they have it programmed for, thus introducing clock drift into the correlation algorithm. The clock has to be precise and synced up to the GPS clocks in order to properly trilaterate location. This might explain the drift over time and then snapping back to a real location once the clocks are properly synced again. (GPS satellites send the complete information required to sync a clock accurately every 12.5 minutes.)

Do note that the clock i'm referring to is the internal GPS reference clock, which is not related in any way to the time set on the device. Internally, the device does keep track of the offset between GPS time and Device Time, but Device Time is not used in the GPS calculations (a different internal clock is used, and synced to the satellites themselves with each transmission) - Previously it has been suggested that ensuring the phones clock is as accurate as possible would make a difference, but that is not the case (due to it not being the same clock)

Either way, any changes to gps.conf or secgps.conf aren't gonna cut the mustard with this particular issue. Initial fix time and number of initial sats, sure. But once the GPS is fired up and running, and has time to pick up a constellation update from the satellites, you're in the same boat as anyone else.

BTW. You can read the adb logcat output to easily see if your phone is utilizing AGPS. You will get an initial fix with an accuracy of appx. 1500m and the log will show that it is not a GPS fix but instead a network provided location. It will then show this location being injected into the GPS driver (AGPS)

Da_G? In my Captivate thread? This brings me back to playing with with GPS on the HTC Touch Pro...

It's crazy that was 2 years ago.
 

Da_G

Inactive Senior RD / Moderator Emeritus
Aug 20, 2007
3,332
1,563
Riverside, CA
Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra
Hi, CLShortFuse, long time no see :)

Actually i've been lurking for a while now, just trying to learn things before I get down to the nitty gritty of modding source code (and writing some new stuff of my own!)

To be fair, I was a GPS fan before I became a PDA fan :) I remember doing firmware hacks to the SirfStar III chipset to enable functionality above 18,000m, faster than 515m/s, and bypassing the acceleration and motional jerk limiters :) Why? Because my GPS should work to its full ability, dammit! :)

As I understand, we don't have access to any of the baseband source. This is probably where a large amount of the GPS calculations are handled (It is so with Qualcomm, at least) and so it may not be something we can address. But a good thorough look at the kernel driver(s) should answer that question.

I wonder if the chipset is even SBAS Capable (WAAS/EGNOS, i'm quite sure it doesn't have a receiver for any land based solutions). The accuracy reminds me of GPS back in the days when Selective Availability was up (artificial GPS accuracy limitations put in place by the military) before DGPS came about.

Ironically, my hacked bluetooth GPS from 2005, a Globalsat BT338 remains the most accurate consumer level GPS I have used to date, with accuracies down to .3 meters in ideal conditions. (During normal in the field conditions like stuck in a backpack, in the back seat of a car, with perhaps a 5 degree view of the sky, and wicked multipath from skyscrapers it's accurate to around 2 meters) - basically, you can count on it to be accurate down to what lane of traffic you are in :)

The same chipsets are made available to smartphone manufacturers. (The current model being the SirfStar IV, and capable of even better accuracy than that older one) - I only wish more manufacturers would actually use them!

I actually currently use that BT GPS for any navigation I do. But nonetheless, we don't have such a nice platform to work with, so let's see what we can do with what we have :) Perhaps tomorrow i'll take a drive with 2 captivates, both loaded to stock firmware (updated to the "gps fix" build) + the samsung GPS fix on the market (which we know is worthless, but just for S&G)

I'll record raw NMEA output from both GPS units (Captivate using internal GPS, and Captivate using BT-338 GPS through bluetooth serial NMEA), and post that up along with a google earth .kml for easy comparison. The difference between the two is quite striking. I'll be using that GPS unit as my baseline for "great performance" when the hackery begins :p

(edit: taking a quick look at the kernel source it looks like we have a BCM4751 and i'm fairly certain all the relevant calculations are handled in the baseband. The good news is that chipset does support SBAS. I doubt it's properly handling it however, as it doesn't even perform up to the level of a GPS without SBAS. If everything IS being handled in baseband, i'm going to need to get my hands on source code to the radio to fix it, which won't be the easiest thing ever :p)
 
Last edited:

Philux

Senior Member
Feb 25, 2007
487
86
Did anyone come across this yet? Is this real or a joke?

Samsung Captivate And Vibrant Finally Get GPS "Fix" Via GPSSamsungRestore App

The Galaxy S phones are, without a doubt, among the best Android phones out there, but for some time now, the handsets have been plagued by one potential showstopper – malfunctioning GPS capabilities. Worry not, though – in addition to an update that rolled out a few months ago, Samsung has developed an app called GPSSamsungRestore which is now available from the Android Market for all users of AT&T’s Captivate and T-Mobile’s Vibrant. So what does it do? It undoes any modifications to the GPS and basically reverts it to its original state. While it remains to be seen how reverting the GPS to its original, broken state fixes it, I suppose it can’t hurt to give it a shot if you’re a Captivate or Vibrant owner.

Note: The app only shows up in the Market for Captivate and Vibrant owners, so if you’re looking for it just for kicks, you won’t find it unless you’ve got one of those devices. It isn’t listed on AppBrain, either.
Quote from Android Police
 
Last edited:

darkamikaze

Senior Member
Aug 7, 2010
1,524
174
Candyland
Is there a validity with that GPSSamsungRestore fix.

and +1 on awesome person joining this awesome group!
 
Last edited:

ace518

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2008
166
2
Upstate NY
Da_G I'm glad to see you have a captivate. Used your roms all the time on my Touch Pro. Glad to see another great dev on this phone. Looking forward to any work you do with it.
 

Cezar`

Retired Recognized Developer
Jul 20, 2010
1,998
1,629
Czech Republic
Amazing explanation, we are all aware of the AGPS -GPS relation but we like to lie to ourselves that some of these tweaks are actually working and that our devices are as good as any other. The truth is that our device is waaaay better with the latest developments than any other device on the market, and mine is simply perfect.
Honestly, I've been running Cognition 2.3b6 with the Jupiter v6 tweaks and had no problems with the GPS on a trip in the mountains, between trees and under heavy snow (300km round trip). Absolutely none! A bit slow lock but great tracking.
Now I'm using 2 different tweaks, the JM9 GPS drivers + this control plane thing on the same rom, Cog 2.3b6. Got a lock in 10-15 sec on 7 sats (tested for about 10 mins) but didnt have the chance to take it for a test drive. Hopefully will get the same results like before. If not, I'll just revert back to "stock" Cog with jupiter tweaks, that was the best.
 
Last edited:

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  • 8
    Control Plane is an alternative method of accessing the AGPS server from User Plane (SUPL). Control Plane goes over the cellular providers Control Plane (fancy that!) whereas SUPL goes out over the GPRS network (HSPA, 3G, etc.)

    For Control Plane to work, the cellular provider has to have in place specific technology intended for use with AGPS. All older AGPS solutions prior to the deployment of SUPL use Control Plane. Basically it's "the old way"

    Note that you can obtain the exact same AGPS data through a SUPL connection to the same set of servers AT&T maintains. This is the default setting for "Server FQDN Type" - AUTO Config.

    Basically, setting it to AGPS Mode - Control Plane (regardless of other server settings) is the same as setting AGPS Mode - SUPL, SUPL Secure Socket - ON, Server - h-slp.mnc410.mcc310.pub.3gppnetwork.org, Server Port - 7275. AND is also the same as using "Server FQDN Type" - AUTO Config, providing your cellular provider is AT&T (MNC 410 MCC 310).

    Note that the specifications for AUTO Config will read the MCC/MNC of your network provider (in my example above, AT&T) and change the mncXXX.mccYYY part to match your providers MNC/MCC. Per the 3gpp SUPL spec, when in a home network, the URL to access for SUPL services is h-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org, which breaks down to:

    h-slp - Home SUPL Location Platform
    mncXXX - MNC of the current network the phone is parked on
    mccYYY - MCC of the current network the phone is parked on
    pub.3gppnetwork.org - A (purposefully) un-registered domain name free for use by cellular providers.

    When you are roaming, the URL changes to:
    v-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org
    where v-slp instead means Visiting SUPL Location Platform.

    So, to sum that up, if your cellular provider is following 3gpp SUPL recommendations properly, when you attempt a SUPL connection to h-slp.mncXXX.mccYYY.pub.3gppnetwork.org, your cellular provider should connect you to THEIR provided SUPL server. In the case of AT&T this is fully functional. Note that this will NOT work on Wi-Fi, the DNS will not resolve (since you aren't connected to a cellular network, the ISP you're on will not maintain a SUPL server for you, unless they are just THAT nice)

    Note that if you use a program like MarketAccess to change your MNC/MCC to allow access to other markets, the SUPL address will also change (to reflect the altered MNC/MCC) and thus be broken in automatic mode.

    Anywho, all of this only affects the initial lock time, when set to MS-Based. (Defaults on the stock ROM to standalone, which doesn't use AGPS at all, and sane people will use MS-Based)

    Tracking once you have a lock should NOT be affected by any of these changes.

    In case you're wondering where I got my information, it's not my first go-round to this particular party. I did all the legwork for this a bit over a year ago, and put up a compendium post about it in March 2009: http://xdaforums.com/showthread.php?t=489887 All the info I reference from the SUPL specifications is obtained by spending hours reading the actual, incredibly boring whitepapers.

    I haven't had time to properly devote to the GPS problem for captivate like I have for previous WM devices (I just got the cappy), but i'm guessing there's some errors in either the satellite correlation done in the baseband, or in the driver's interpretation of the output in the kernel code. It might also be the case that the phone is relying on a clock generator that isn't putting out the exact cycles they have it programmed for, thus introducing clock drift into the correlation algorithm. The clock has to be precise and synced up to the GPS clocks in order to properly trilaterate location. This might explain the drift over time and then snapping back to a real location once the clocks are properly synced again. (GPS satellites send the complete information required to sync a clock accurately every 12.5 minutes.)

    Do note that the clock i'm referring to is the internal GPS reference clock, which is not related in any way to the time set on the device. Internally, the device does keep track of the offset between GPS time and Device Time, but Device Time is not used in the GPS calculations (a different internal clock is used, and synced to the satellites themselves with each transmission) - Previously it has been suggested that ensuring the phones clock is as accurate as possible would make a difference, but that is not the case (due to it not being the same clock)

    Either way, any changes to gps.conf or secgps.conf aren't gonna cut the mustard with this particular issue. Initial fix time and number of initial sats, sure. But once the GPS is fired up and running, and has time to pick up a constellation update from the satellites, you're in the same boat as anyone else.

    BTW. You can read the adb logcat output to easily see if your phone is utilizing AGPS. You will get an initial fix with an accuracy of appx. 1500m and the log will show that it is not a GPS fix but instead a network provided location. It will then show this location being injected into the GPS driver (AGPS)
    1
    Hi guys, did the promised side-by-side GPS test today. I didn't get a chance to capture raw NMEA this time, just used google my tracks. "Use Wireless networks" was turned off, "Use sensor aiding" off. Note that I had to turn on SUPL for the phone GPS as I was not able to get a lock at all under the stock ROM standalone configuration. Otherwise running stock. That change should only affect the lock times.

    2 AT&T Captivates, similar "born on" dates, similar internal GPS performance signal-wise, etc. Both set up to JH7 + "GPS Fix" from market. I'll see if I can collect raw NMEA data tomorrow. Both GPS were set up side by side on the dashboard, as close as possible.

    AT&T Captivate Track:
    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...26965825393652.000496745b69eeef7de5f&t=h&z=14

    BT338 GPS Tethered to Captivate Track:
    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...26965825393652.00049673fd50c60e8d690&t=h&z=14

    Both Tracks overlaid (anyone know how to get one track as a different color for better visibility? I know you can in g earth..)
    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...09,-117.346945&spn=0.053451,0.065746&t=h&z=14

    The BT GPS can be considered an accurate reference, most of the time it's spot on down to the lane of traffic i'm in. Note that the timestamps on the BT GPS track are off by 3 hours as it's set to eastern time and the other cappy was set to pacific (whoops!)

    Looks to me like there is an overzealous interpolation algorithm at play, which tends to yield good results on a straight and narrow path with good signals, but otherwise not the best results.
    1
    Just got back from going on a ride trying to do simultaneous NMEA captures from both devices.
    What a nightmare that turned out to be :) I only found one app that will save NMEA data free on
    the market (Aspara), and it's got some horrible programming for the NMEA log buffer.. looks
    like it's doing a copy/dealloc/realloc each NMEA packet to grow the buffer or something, after
    a short period of time the program was entirely non responsive and I lost all that NMEA data.
    :X

    Also the Bluetooth GPS providers send location data directly to the LocationProvider as a Mock
    Location (lat, long, alt), pulled from the NMEA strings rather than sending the NMEA strings
    irectly. That means whatever Bluetooth GPS Provider app i'm using would need to support it's
    own saving of the NMEA logs to SD (none of the ones I tried do)

    So i'll definitely have to travel with the laptop to collect that from the BT GPS. I'll need to
    find a better app to save raw NMEA data from the captivate's GPS as the Aspara app definitely
    does not work well for that purpose. It does however work fine as long as you don't allow the
    buffer to grow to a point that your phone implodes, and save the NMEA log to SD. I'll see if I
    can get some shorter tracks to work with that. Might be easier to write my own app to capture
    the raw data from the exposed char device :p

    So, lacking the raw data for this go-round to anaylze I decided to use what I had to work with,
    my eyeballs! Stuck the BT GPS on the dash and held the Captivate right next to it, monitored
    the BT GPS SV SNR levels with the BT GPS app on another cappyand used GPS Test to monitor the
    same levels on the first cappy. Here's what I observed after about 15 minutes of staring
    intently while on the move:

    Signal levels are quite similar, with the BT338 edging the captivate out across the board. The
    difference isn't incredible however, the cappy is still getting more than enough signal to
    perform properly. There's an average difference of perhaps 3dB. Fluctuating between 0 dB
    difference and 6dB difference. On the dB scale that is a significant amount however, for each
    3dB you are doubling the signal. So at a 6dB difference the BT338 is receiving 4x the amount of
    signal that the captivate is. These signal levels fluctuate fast enough that judging it with
    the eye isn't a good measure however, really I need to collect raw NMEA data from both devices
    side by side on a trip with varying circumstances and average it out to get a good idea of the
    signal differences. But my eyeball tells me "negligable"

    Interestingly, the small bit of google My Tracks I did today had the Cappy GPS spot on. No
    changes from when I ran the same test yesterday, except that I was tinkering with lbstestmode.

    I noted previously that lbstestmode initializes the GPS with a testmode = 1 flag set, that
    isn't set during normal operation. This flag may in fact alter some behavior on the GPS in a
    desirable way! Need more data.

    I'll go outside in clear sky view with the laptop, BT GPS, and 2 cappies later today, and see
    if I can collect some NMEA data to look at. I did observe the NMEA output from the captivate is
    non-standard (there are date and timestamps present in the output before the actual $GP****
    NMEA data, and there are a few $P**** proprietary GPS strings that show data such as fixed or
    not, and some record of Tx/Rx counts.)

    So to sum this post up, interesting results, NEED MOAR DATA (especially on tracking with
    test mode initialized to true)

    [Edit: I'm going to start a new thread shortly just for holding raw GPS data (no anecdotal observations) and instructions how to collect that data. That way we can get a more objective look on whats happening rather than the piles of anecdotal data floating around.]