Apple iPhone

Although there are many replies saying "I'd rather stick to my [insert name of WM5 device here]...", not everyone exactly fits in that market demographic. If Palm Treo users went on to a WM5 board and said something to the degree of "WM5 blows! Palm has been out for AGES! Go Palm OS or go home!" I don't think it would quite fly.

Steve Jobs main market is the power user who wants to merge their iPod, mobile phone, and a PDA device into one. Here's a great statement about what point they are targetting the phone to:

"Before we get into it, let me talk about a category of things ... the most advanced phones are called smartphones. They typically involve a phone, have plastic little keyboards on them, the problem is they're not so smart and they're not so easy to use. If you make a biz school 101 graph, cellphones are at the bottom... smartphones are a little smarter, but they're harder to use."
- Quoted from the Engaget MacWorld 2007 Keynote speech page (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/)

Let's stick to the discussion about the phone itself please.

As far as things go with language recognition for the iPhone in other languages... I would not be surprised for the Asian pictograph languages (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) that you will be able to use your fingers as a stylus and draw out the characters. The Motorola A732 had an interesting concept where the number pad was touch sensitive. This was interesting as you could draw out the characters and the GUI would display a preview before confirming input.

Here's a link about the Motorola A732's touch keypad recognition:
www.motorola.com/content.jsp?globalObjectId=7599

There's another link somewhere with an interview with the linguistics specialist of Motorola, but I can't seem to find it...

I would imagine the same concept could be easily applied for those countries. Apple is pretty good about localization, so I don't think there should be any worries or qualms about Asian region countries.

My few thoughts about this iPhone.

1. Lack of exchangable battery - bad,
2. GSM/GPRS/EDGE/Quad-band - OK, but lacks UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA is major dissapointment,
3. Wi-Fi b/g - nice, but b/g is nowadays standard, not big deal,
4. No 3rd party software - bad, really bad,
5. Battery life - nothing, zero, nada. Why they did not tell what is expected standby time? Because it sux and with 3G you would have to go all the time with power cord,
6. Graphics - Nice, very nice - Apple always was king in graphics,
7. Design - I do not like it, but this is personal agenda,
8. Data usage - Jobs was making fun of BB, but BB is king of data compression, even for havy users 20 MB is plenty, I guess that unlimited data plan will be needed for users of iPhone,
9. Sensors - stupid idea, if I will move my hand screen will go crazy. Only good idea is screen off when by ear side, but this was not their idea. First was Ericsson R520m with ear sensor - when phone was not by ear speaker phone was on, thou nice idea users hated it,
10. Contacs - if I am PC user I should switch to what? iContacts? I am predicting a lot of problems with sync with Outlook.

OK, I am heavy PC user. I am not in graphics or publishing - thou I do not need Mac. I use IBM laptop because it was design to work in many places with no problems, additional programs to configure different network accesses ie. Work, Home, Airport Lounges, Starbucks, Other Networks - different credentials, security certs etc. It HAS to work, I do not care if it is black and square, not rounded. Same I demand from phone. Has to work all the time, if I use up battery I always have spare. Using only mail and sync with exchange I have data usage of 50-100 MB per month. So I guess that this phone will have more then that. So monthly it will be far more then 100USD, and Jobs is talking about saving money?

What I would like to get from Apple is iTunes for WindowsMobile with full Apple DRM to listen and watch stuff I bought from them. But with iPhone it won't happen. AFAIR revenue ratio iPod to iTunes is 1 to 8. They make 8 times more money on iTunes. Give me that not product which is not good for me.

I rarely use my stylus these days anyway, a combination of hardware buttons, keyboard, or icons big enough on the screen that a finger will do (i.e. TomTom) means that I will only use the stylus when I am browsing the internet or something (not often). I don't like the idea of it not having hardware buttons, it means you will have to use the screen for everything, and your finger will get in the way of what you are trying to see on the screen. HTC has been adding buttons to their phone - my Wizard had 10 plus a D-pad, while my Hermes has 13 plus a D-pad and a scroll wheel, and it's easier to use.

With flash prices tumbling, 8gb could seem pretty mediocre by the time the iPhone makes it over here, in a year's time at the earliest. An 4gb SD card can be had for under £50 now, and probably about £25-£30 in another 12 months.

HTC seem to be bringing out new phones every 6 months so I'm sure they, or someone, can come up with something as appealing within a year.

However, we can at least be grateful to Apple for raising the bar in user interfaces, because I must admit, it looks sweet.

And given their work on the Newton, and the what, Billion + potential users they would be excluding, I'm sure the thought of non Western alphabets might have occurred to them. Particularly given where they make their stuff, lol!

V

Re: Foreign language input

Can't disagree that iPhone should/will have other character input methods, but the stylus is simply the most convenient.

Maybe it's not so bad in other languages, but writing in Chinese with (fat) fingers is less than elegant. Thick brush (i.e. finger) means big strokes/characters, which slows down writing speed and accuracy.

Other input methods use standard keyboard keys to construct the desired character, but man, once you use stylus + touch screen, it's hard to go back.

So that's why I think the iPhone will be a step backwards at least in some parts of the world. Or just type in English and forget the hassle.

Guys, how expensive will it be for them to provide a stylus? Come on, I can't imagine this being a deal breaker. Question is if there is support for those languages, why haven't they shown it? But if they're going for worldwide release, I can't see them trying to force everyone to type in English.

V

My apologies for being long-winded....

Anyway, I'm guessing the iPhone will use "radical" character input (i.e. characters broken up into its parts) on its virtual keyboard, then choose from a drop-down list. Clunky, but okay.

I highly doubt they are going to add a stylus, since multi-touch is suppose to be its way-too-cool replacement.

Agreed, a stylus is small, fiddly, losable, and decidedly un-Apple.

In a way, it had to be that way for Apple to have product differentiation. If it had a normal phone keypad, it would have been just like a normal phone with a different operating system (who's going to notice anyway?) and can play music just like any normal phone these days.

If it had a stylus, regardless of whether it particularly needed one for operation, it would be seen as a PDA and shunned by the masses who want a phone to make calls with, not an organiser that does everything but is consequently a little more complex to use.

It had to be different, and have neither buttons not a stylus. If anyone can pull off something this slick, it would be Apple. However, as many have pointed out, for a large number of languages, particular of Asian origin, this could be a big problem.

Apple has probably released this at the right time. The mp3 player / phone markets have been converging for a couple of years and in another couple of years the discrete portable mp3 player market may start seeing a downward trend. Apple can now continue to sell iPods in the guise of a phone / portable computer.

Lol
"Windows Mobile 5 Already Does What the iPhone Does - Gizmodo"

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld...-already-does-what-the-iphone-does-227778.php

V

I'll get sued for this..

I've finally got "the letter" from Apple and I have since removed all copyright meterials from this forum.

[UPDATE:] Why make your phone look like iPhone when your phone can look this good. Tell me when iPhone can do this.

- top = cLaunch
- bottom = phoneAlarm
btw: the phoneAlarm is not really very practical in this manner.
Attached:
- Ripped icons 32 x 32.
- phoneAlarm skin

FAQ
[1] How is it done?
Use any 32x32 icons with cLaunch (freeware) Read this thread on how to use this cLaunch. Thanks decknologist, for the tutorial. You can try these icons spacing settings

Icon size: 32
Icon name width: 46
Icon name heught: 12
Icon margins: Horizontal= 5, Vertical= 10
Windwos margin: Left= 8, Right= 0, Top=0, Bottom= 0.

[2] How do I make the black theme? I have grey bars instead.
The black theme and all instructions are available here.

[3] The clock is dull
You have have clock on your WM5 today screen,
something like this, using VJ's todaytoggle and Rotlaus's rlToday

[4] Why can't I push the bottom bar to hit the bottom?
Some of the phone may have those icons on the system tray. I'm not sure, but thallanor seems to have the problem and he has solved the problem

[5] I can get the carbon fiber skin to work on phoneAlarm?
thallanor solved that problem too

[n] Still have problems ..
For general WM5 theming questions, direct your question to this thread instead.

hanmin said:

Attached:
- Ripped icons 32 x 32.
- phoneAlarm skin

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

LOL. no respect for intellectual property

I'm a recent Mac convert, and I've been through quite a few Pocket PCs in the past, never really flirting with other OS's like Crackberries, Treos or Palms, but given the fond memories I had of my first PDA, an Apple Newton, I'm SO BUYING THIS.

Apple are the Nintendo of the Computer world.... they just do things wonderfully.

I will be selling my Exec and XDA IIi when these start to hit the UK.

Anyone know who the UK carrier/supplier will be?

hey check this write up from Gizmodo,

reminds me of that episode of south park, "the simpsons already did it..."

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld...-already-does-what-the-iphone-does-227778.php

its still damn nice hardware but just a shame about the software.

Give It To Us>the Precious!

I love my Universal! Hackked and running well (Even A2DP/Spider)

I have however, wasted plenty valuble time getting it to "WORK"

I use MAC and PC Professionally for Media editing, and I can tell you> Altho I can build a PC to run "Faster"> I can rely on the MAC to run "Flawless"
For this reason, I only take MACs to gigs> or whe I have clients recording in REAL TIME.

If the Iphone runs like true osX than my only question is:

HOW CAN I PRE-ORDER???

CAN I KEEP MY T-MOBILE #......LOL

SERIOUSLY I WANT TO GET IT EARLY IF NOT IN THE FIRST SHIPMENT.>>>> WHERE?


SEEMS TO HAVE MOST THINGS I WANT>>>
EXCEPT THAT I hear no mention yet of A2DP?

i want one

Well, I'm thinking that the iPhone will be more akin to the Sony PSP than to a WM device.

I think those who are using a WM phone for its extra features will probably be perfectly suited for the iPhone - with a lot less headaches. For those who use a WM phone as a PDA/mini-laptop, the iPhone just won't cut it.

It's also interesting to see the parallel between iMac vs. Windoze PC and iPhone vs. WM phone. Work of art vs. the Wild West?

Oliy said:

Apple has probably released this at the right time. The mp3 player / phone markets have been converging for a couple of years and in another couple of years the discrete portable mp3 player market may start seeing a downward trend. Apple can now continue to sell iPods in the guise of a phone / portable computer.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Oily: I can say your post exactly summed up the market that this phone will be reaching out to... The people who want to combine together their media player and phone together into a single solution.

On a related tangent...

My experiences are limited to Motorola as I used to hang on a few modification forums... If someone with experiences can chime in about music phones with the other manufacturers, it would be appreciated.

Motorola has been pushing this barrier for the past few years...

If anyone remembers the Motorola E398, that was a "revolutionary" music phone as it had "3D sound" speakers and fun-lights (from the V80). The crippling point of the phone was the TransFlash (with SanDisk exclusively marketing the memory) and the phone overall was mediocre UNLESS you decided to take a risk to flash in the various Monster Pack or FlexLash packages.

Then Motorola releases the Motorola ROKR (only some parts of Europe and Asia would get the iTunes-less version). The iTunes-less ROKR was basically just a rehash of the E398 but with minor tweaks to the OS. The iTunes one was the same as the E398 but with a Java based version of iTune. Sadly, Motorola crippled it a whole lot worse than the E398... iTunes by default would lock out at 100 songs; it didn't matter if you had a 1 GB TransFlash and could theoretically hold 3000+ songs. The main problems of the E398 once again return, but due to the changes for this "update" the phone saw terrible instability in the early firmware and flexware versions. Once again, the Monster Pack and FlexLash packs would save the phone's grace. Not to mention, some folks on the Motorola community would break the crippled iTunes to hold a significantly better 1,000 songs.

The SLVR L7 was basically a ROKR/E398 with the slim principles of the RAZR in it's heart... The only new modification was hot-swappable TransFlash and quad-band EDGE support. Same problems from it's predecessors sadly...

The V3i/V3m/V3x/V3MAXX/KRZR (and even the leaked RIZR Z6) all seem to be rehashes of the old E398 and ROKR's in the guise of an OS powered by a mix of Linux and Java in fancy body shells...

What does the above have to do with the iPhone? The iPhone really uncomplicates the idea of the music phone. Much like how the portable music player industry was changed with the iPod's simplicity, I think that the iPhone will be a big step for music phones as far as simplicity goes. I personally think that the target at hand for Apple is Sidekicks, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, and Nokia, NOT WM5 devices or Blackberry like so many posts attack on various forums, web pages, and communities show..

Clearly, WM5 devices or Blackberries will be king when it comes to business... This will be due to Windows Server apps, Blackberry Connect, Outlook, etc. I will probably end up keeping my Wizard for my business phone, but get the iPhone as my personal phone. That way, I can have the best of both worlds!

cr2 said:

I wish somebody in the US bought it, opened it and posted the motherboard
pictures Then we will know which CPU, BT and WIFI chipsets are used.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Heard is Samsung (CPU), CSR (BT), Marvell (Wifi), Infineon (GSM) & Broadcom (Screen).

_Nomad_ said:

According to engadget the iPhone wont be a "pda" as it will only allow first-party software...

Read the full article here

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Wow, not even Second Party Software . . . LOL ! ! ! . . .

And we are using Third Party Software . . . LOL ! ! ! . . .