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Windows 8 sucks for desktops....

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link68759
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Originally Posted by ohgood View Post
Your summary makes it sound even more like an unneeded redunancy, that isn't quite redundant, similar to apples dashboard. Placing a widget on a desktop is a very nice thing to do without switching to a completely different ui (dashboard/metro), and works very well. Hitting a hot corner to "splash in" all the metro widgets/tiles would make more usability sense.

Maybe I'm just too used to os ten, and fondly remember the speed / simplicity of xp ? After attempting to find wifi settings in vista I knew it was the new ME, and wondered if 7 was the new XP. Now, with 8's already controversial dual GUI's, I wonder if 9 is the new 7 to wait for?
I understand what you're saying but you don't understand that metro isn't just widgets, that's only a portion of what it does, and like I said it's a separate UI element from the desktop so that the template can remain untampered.

Moreover keeping it separate from the desktop allows for one to get in/out quickly without having to "show desktop" / minimize all the windows, and then there's the issue of having a wide desktop (metro scrolls horizontally to fit many tiles).

Just remember that touch friendliness is probably the biggest reason metro is segregated; if tiles were on the desktop, you would not be in a completely touch friendly isolated environment, and that's bad design for tablets. Beyond that, I guess it's just personal preference if you like it or not for a desktop without touchscreen... I personally like the segregation... besides, I think they're trying to keep the desktop as unchanged as possible to as to avoid breaking any compatibility with existing software, and to avoid confusing people who don't want to learn a whole new interface (separated keeps familiarity).
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benjoid
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Nah this doesn't work either. Metro is purposely separated from the desktop because programs/desktop does not interact with metro/apps. If your mouse leaves the taskbar and metro activates, that would break pretty much *everything*. Can't interact with the desktop, can't multi task, can't move windows, etc.
I didn't mean for Metro & Desktop to interact; I was thinking more like using Metro like a sort of screensaver role (like that "light OS" HP uses on its laptops for instant internet access). If Microsoft have 100% separation between Desktop & Metro, I can see probably the majority of people switching it off on a desktop PC pretty much straight away.

My last laptop had Windows Media Center on it and I soon switched it off. If it interacted with the XP Desktop I might have used it, but with 100% separation I had absolutely no reason to use it over what the 100% integrated Window Media Player had to offer.

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A desktop tile is a huge waste of space; only one application, one set of data, entire screen? More or less useless. Moreover that would break the ability to set a wallpaper (unless you want to add a third layer; explorer / metro / big tile)
On reflection, I thought a desktop tile wouldn't work very well

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From your suggestions to improve it, I think that you just don't fully understand how the system works and thus perceive it as unfinished (though the developer preview is clearly unfinished, the design / end goal of metro is *not*).
I understand. I say it looks unfinished because of the ugly flat colour visual styling of Metro. The visual style looks like when a website has an admin section made and it doesn't get involved with aesthetic considerations because the public won't see it. The Android Market *cough* Metro *cough* styling looks like a step in a nicer looking direction of tiles.

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Tiles and their related apps are essentially all built off of one template, a template that emphasizes speed, efficiency...
But how can it be speedy and efficient if it doesn't handle multitasking very well?
I need to rapidly move between many programs at work, dreamweaver, Firefox, IE, Photoshop etc. If it isn't as fast as the Desktop ALT + TAB switching, surely its not as speedy or efficient?

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But I appreciate you having an open mind and not being a troll
I'm skeptical, but open minded

Is Microsoft looking to replace the Windows Desktop environment in future Windows iterations or is there always going to be two 100% separate systems in future Windows versions?
 
ohgood
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nevermind, found something interesting. :)
U jealous of ice cream duuude ?

Everybody on here that's mad and complaining got smoked by a Windows Phone.
 
link68759
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I didn't mean for Metro & Desktop to interact; I was thinking more like using Metro like a sort of screensaver role (like that "light OS" HP uses on its laptops for instant internet access). If Microsoft have 100% separation between Desktop & Metro, I can see probably the majority of people switching it off on a desktop PC pretty much straight away.

My last laptop had Windows Media Center on it and I soon switched it off. If it interacted with the XP Desktop I might have used it, but with 100% separation I had absolutely no reason to use it over what the 100% integrated Window Media Player had to offer.
I used to have this linux based mini OS on my HP laptop before I destroyed the partition. But it was its own OS separate from windows, so I don’t know where you are going with that… that’s infinity x separation lol.
Well Windows Media Center is not intended to replace WMP, it was entirely made to be used with TVs and IR remotes and stuff; they didn’t really intend for you to use it where WMP would be better suited (any time you had a mouse / keyboard in front of you). Moreover media center is incredibly inefficient and it would have crippled many systems if they integrated (or ‘forced’ as some would say) it into the desktop experience. I’m sure many users will just disable metro at first, but they’ll come around when it matures a bit and the marketplace fills out.

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I understand. I say it looks unfinished because of the ugly flat colour visual styling of Metro. The visual style looks like when a website has an admin section made and it doesn't get involved with aesthetic considerations because the public won't see it. The Android Market *cough* Metro *cough* styling looks like a step in a nicer looking direction of tiles.
Hmm agree to disagree on this one. The only thing it is missing is some different themes or perhaps user customizable colors, but I highly doubt they would release it before adding that. My favorite part of metro is that they do not use gloss or overly fancy / complex UI elements. I like simplicity and efficiency. You’re talking to someone who shut aero off and is using the windows 95 “classic” theme XD.
Note that sharp edges and flatness are intentional. I hate systems with all the unnecessary UI elements… they just look out of place on a computer. My monitor is rectangular and has 90 degree edges, and in my eyes trying to fit round things in a square hole is just an inefficient use of space. I like the flat, professional no nonsense look of metro (and 95). Gloss is just a trend that’s been around for the last few years, and thankfully it seems to be on its way out (think; all PCs used to be white/beige/grey). Plus it irks me just thinking about all that RAM being used to just look pretty… that makes me sick :/

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But how can it be speedy and efficient if it doesn't handle multitasking very well?
I need to rapidly move between many programs at work, dreamweaver, Firefox, IE, Photoshop etc. If it isn't as fast as the Desktop ALT + TAB switching, surely its not as speedy or efficient?
There are a few things here… first and foremost, if I remember correctly Win + Tab switches between metro apps and Alt + Tab between desktop programs. So yeah, it does that. Moreover, designed for touchscreens: there is a very intuitive and efficient gesture for switching between metro apps. It’s great, can be done with a mouse, but while you have the keyboard Win + Tab is probably going to be used more often. There is a great feature that lets you split the screen between two metro apps; excellent multitasking for a mobile interface if you ask me. I think the only thing missing is perhaps a way to view and manage running apps other than the taskmanager though, if that doesn’t already exist and I missed it.
All those programs you mentioned are desktop programs… You really must get it in your head that metro is for quick portability stuff, touch friendly UI, etc. It is a consumer product, and nothing as heavy as dreamweaver or photoshop will ever be made into a metro app. The mentality behind metro is quick, efficient, in/out… I must have said this a thousand times now. This doesn’t fit into “work” because efficiency and quick in/out is gained at the cost of some functionality. That’s probably why there is a separation between metro, and the line is drawn right where “work” begins. There might be a “mobile firefox” made for 8, but meanwhile the desktop client isn’t going anywhere. There is a metro (mobile) IE app already, however there is a desktop version as well. Metro is for personal feeds, news stuff, games, media, etc. You won’t be using it to work, you'll use it to *take a break* from work.


Quote:
Is Microsoft looking to replace the Windows Desktop environment in future Windows iterations or is there always going to be two 100% separate systems in future Windows versions?
The desktop environment will never die. Microsoft listens to their customer base for one (as opposed to apple who just assume what their customers want and impose this upon them). This is evident because Microsoft demo’d two SDKs for 8; a metro one and a desktop one. Microsoft knows that a very large chunk of their user base is professional; corporate, IT, worker terminals, hackers, power users, etc. Metro is a very managed and controlled environment; if they planned to replace the desktop, Microsoft would quite literally lose the majority of their customers to linux/bsd overnight. Moreover Microsoft would not dump the last 20 years of compatibility they have been maintaining (7 x86 can run 16 bit programs from the olden days of DOS even today). Desktop applications will always be developed and used because a certain amount of freedom is necessary to do certain things. Metro is a way to create a portable interface for tablets, an efficient, easy and pleasurable to use interface for all, and a secure, simple environment for old or otherwise tech illiterate people to interface with the computer.
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benjoid
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Note that sharp edges and flatness are intentional. I hate systems with all the unnecessary UI elements… they just look out of place on a computer. My monitor is rectangular and has 90 degree edges, and in my eyes trying to fit round things in a square hole is just an inefficient use of space. I like the flat, professional no nonsense look of metro (and 95). Gloss is just a trend that’s been around for the last few years, and thankfully it seems to be on its way out (think; all PCs used to be white/beige/grey). Plus it irks me just thinking about all that RAM being used to just look pretty… that makes me sick :/
Oh ye god no! I think the high gloss button look is a done to death Apple/PhotoShop 101 too

I'm talking about a bit of subtle designing. Like comparing http://screenshots.en.sftcdn.net/blo...1/09/metro.jpg with http://www.charleshudson.net/wp-cont...8.56.53-AM.png. I mean like the subtle gradients and mono "watermarks" on the Editors Choice and special offers tiles. Or the left border on the righthand side column of this screenshot: http://mobilegamebuzz.com/wp-content...AM-300x499.png. Plus a decent font like on the Market screenshot makes it look a lot nicer. Then I'd like to see how a tiny almost transparent/unnoticeable drop shadow on the tiles would look.

I don't like the garish colours used in Metro also, but like you say, I sure themes will let you dull them down a bit.

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There is a great feature that lets you split the screen between two metro apps; excellent multitasking for a mobile interface if you ask me.
Yep, seen that and I like that on a mobile OS too. Not as good as webOS cards and stacks, but HP well and truly cooked the goose on that one

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The desktop environment will never die. Microsoft listens to their customer base for one (as opposed to apple who just assume what their customers want and impose this upon them)....Moreover Microsoft would not dump the last 20 years of compatibility they have been maintaining
Good, long live Desktop! (and I'm not an Apple fan either) ... although you have heard of the New Coke disaster I'm sure...so big companies can do stupid things

If Microsoft put Metro on desktops like HP did with their light OS, i.e. as a quick boot OS to nip on the Internet, which went away when I loaded Windows Desktop until I rebooted the machine, I'd be ok with that. If it keeps popping up like the "Updates need you to reboot your PC" nag box I would probably turn it off.
 
randomblame
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They actually made it worse than the last preview. Using a mouse to control this is like trying to drive a car with a tv remote. There should at the very least be an option to go back to the standard desktop environment without a hack and completely be rid of the metro interface - the start menu should do what it has always done in that case.

This operating system requires a touchscreen to be useable - I say that because no one is going to want to use it without one it's painful. They are marketing this as a replacement to windows 7 and 90 percent of the computers running windows 7 do not have touch screen functionality. This is going to be their biggest mistake ever. Forget windows Me and vista. This could kill microsoft and I don't say that lightly. I imagine they will have to quadruple their support staff to deal with the poor saps who purchase this and can't figure it out.

Mark my words there will be a windows 7 downgrade program just like the vista to xp program. Unless microsoft requires a multitouch display on new systems shipping with this and does not sell boxed retail versions it's gonna be a flop. They need to manage this very carefully and market it as a niche product like media center was in the olden days.



More thoughts:

This is a mobile operating system and shouldn't even ship on notebooks or desktops in my opinion. If I'm on my tablet on the couch and I'm just browsing and consuming data it's fine. When I sit down at my desktop I mean to get some work done. One open app at a time pisses me off, I know alt tab but I like to be able to move windows around, see what's open in my start bar, and I have two screens. This is designed for media consumption and nothing else. It's like they're trying to turn my desktop into a CE device. This is not an internet appliance it's a WORKSTATION I don't care about twitter and facebook updates I want a REAL desktop environment that is intuitive and multitasking friendly. If microsoft wants me to buy another version of windows in the future they will spend time building me a windows 2000 for 2012 - I'm not alone in this there are billions of dollars in the hands of IT departments world wide that agree with me!

This is the opposite of their windows mobile problem, they tried to put a desktop interface on a mobile platform and now they're trying to put a mobile interface on a desktop platform. It's crazy!
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valtonray
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Actually I like the metro UI, even though I agree it could use some theme support, but that will come rather Microsoft builds it in or a 3rd party developer makes it possible and probably by the end of March. I also think you underestimate how many computers do have multi touch enabled monitors. Most AIO PC's offer them, they are also growing in laptops and stand alone monitors, they may not be the standard but it's not hard or expensive to come across. When 8 hit's retail launch the market is going to be flooded with them. It's not a niche product it is where the technology leads to next, everyone keeps comparing 8 to Vista and ME. ME was horrible, and buggy and didn't work, Vista's biggest problem was coming in behind an OS that had a 7 year run and people complaining about how it was so resource hungry and many PC's couldn't run it well. When Vista launched 1-2 GB of RAM was pretty high end, Vista needed that to run stabely, people were used to XP getting by on 128mb, it's a huge jump.

Give 8 a try, think of what it will bring to the future of home computing then judge it.
 
link68759
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This is a mobile operating system and shouldn't even ship on notebooks or desktops in my opinion. If I'm on my tablet on the couch and I'm just browsing and consuming data it's fine. When I sit down at my desktop I mean to get some work done.
I'm going to stop you right there... it's core has been updated from 7, and it has a pretty new dress. Does that make it a mobile OS?

I know that every sap with something to say comes here to dump their misplaced complaints, but at least try to follow the thread of conversation, ok?
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The consumer preview actually create some serious problem for me...
At first, they kill the Start Orb... okay... now i have to move the mouse to the Bottom Left corner or Botton/Top Right Corner of the screen to have the bazel pop out.

They also built and hide Zune Cilent in this build (as the Music App), but it is still buggy and i don't blame them for having a buggy software preview, but it is annoying as F to have to Alt-TAb and find the screen of the apps to change songs. But also the problem when i can't shut all the back ground apps totally. I have to do those things through Task manager... When they bring more cool apps to the Metro Design, the more trouble i have with navigating through pages...(those bazels are really hard to access from Desktop)
But Consumer Preview is awesome regarding all the stupid steps on the keyboard and mouse... XBOX Live and XBOX Live Companion... Sound really cool and there is humor about Windows 8 can run and play XBOX 360 games.
WE will wait and see, i will play with it a little bit more...
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valtonray
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I discovered while playing around that you can in fact change the tiles. Pick a picture or make a small jpeg of the color choice you want to use. While viewing in the picture app if you right click it gives you the option to use the image on a tile. Using this you could actually create some really nice looking tiles in the new start menu..... *EDIT-THIS ONLY SEEMS TO WORK ON THE PHOTOS APP...

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