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[CM7] Neutrino ROM V2.9 ¦ V3.00b1 [24/02]

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Erebus671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balintmaci View Post
i see what you mean, but only memory and radio need to stay under constant power supply and radio can wake cpu, mabye at least that's how i imagine

there might be a little part of the cpu awake that is responsible for waking up
so technically you're right, it's not completely off, but actually it isn't doing anything at all other than that.
so the ALU part is probably not doing anything.(which normally consumes most of the energy)
Next time you get the chance look at the architecture of a motherboard, you will see that everything leads back to the CPU eventually, and the CPU goes directly to the power supply. Check out the attached image below, unfortunately I don't have a picture of the bottom side of a motherboard, but if you flip a mobo over, you will see that most of the solder connections lead to the CPU or to the power supply connectors. The architecture alone is enough to prove this because a USB port will port go directly to a PCIe port. A SATA port will not connect to anything other than the CPU, unless it is connected in series with other ports, but usually ports and only connected in series with similar ports. At least in the past they were, CPU's are getting more advanced and can send commands of extreme differences over the same bridges these days. But I'm sure you get what I'm saying right? Everything inevitably connects to the CPU.

That is exactly what I'm talking about, that little bit if the CPU that is running, as you put it, is what I've been trying to say, but you can't have only part of the CPU running, maybe only 1 out of x cores, but you still have the whole CPU as a component running, when it enters deep sleep, it, once again, enters into a low frequency state that allows the CPU to "receive, translate and forward signals to and from components" in the deep sleep mode I am mostly talking about the wake commands such as call received, push notification or even play alarm. Of course, those are not the exact commands that the hardware will send to the CPU, but you get my drift.
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Erebus671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balintmaci View Post
i see what you mean, but only memory and radio need to stay under constant power supply and radio can wake cpu, mabye at least that's how i imagine

there might be a little part of the cpu awake that is responsible for waking up
so technically you're right, it's not completely off, but actually it isn't doing anything at all other than that.
so the ALU part is probably not doing anything.(which normally consumes most of the energy)


i asked tom and he said this:
On Spica it means that all the parts of the S3C6410 SoC, except the alive block (few GPIO banks, RTC and units that are needed for wake up sources), are turned off - their clocks are disabled and power turned off. Also some of external peripherals are turned off, like audio codec and amplifier (if there is no voice call going on), sensors, etc. Modem and RAM are kept fully powered, for obvious reasons.

so this means that it may differ on every phone, on spica GPIOs and the clock is on(clock is on when the phone is off too so it doesn't really count) and the stuff responsible for waking are awake in deep sleep too
As far as what Tom said:
Of course external peripherals are going to be turned off, with the exception of the USB and Radio drivers, but once again, the CPU itself will still be running, nothing he said there actually refers to the CPU except for maybe the S3C6410 SoC, that sounds like a serial number, and I haven't seen any pics of an actual CPU in reference to that... well, reference and yes, I did search, Just gave up on the search... The clocks, codecs and amplifiers are all parts of different hardware within the device, not part of the CPU. Anything can be turned off even without shutting down the CPU, as evidenced by the fact that Wifi/GPS/WifiAP, and even the entire radio chipset can all be shut down from within the operating system.

Edit: I spoke too soon... the S3C6410 SoC is in-fact a CPU. However, like I said above, the CPU is still not COMPLETELY shut down. If you would like to continue this conversation, I would appreciate it if we did so in a PM as I think we've done quite a bit of cluttering to Notorious's thread...


@Notorious: Sorry...

Edit again: sorry for the double post, my power company pulled a stupid and caused my home modem to flunk out, so I had to reset it and my browser thought I logged out so it decided not to merge the posts...
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balintmaci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus671 View Post
Next time you get the chance look at the architecture of a motherboard, you will see that everything leads back to the CPU eventually, and the CPU goes directly to the power supply. Check out the attached image below, unfortunately I don't have a picture of the bottom side of a motherboard, but if you flip a mobo over, you will see that most of the solder connections lead to the CPU or to the power supply connectors. The architecture alone is enough to prove this because a USB port will port go directly to a PCIe port. A SATA port will not connect to anything other than the CPU, unless it is connected in series with other ports, but usually ports and only connected in series with similar ports. At least in the past they were, CPU's are getting more advanced and can send commands of extreme differences over the same bridges these days. But I'm sure you get what I'm saying right? Everything inevitably connects to the CPU.

That is exactly what I'm talking about, that little bit if the CPU that is running, as you put it, is what I've been trying to say, but you can't have only part of the CPU running, maybe only 1 out of x cores, but you still have the whole CPU as a component running, when it enters deep sleep, it, once again, enters into a low frequency state that allows the CPU to "receive, translate and forward signals to and from components" in the deep sleep mode I am mostly talking about the wake commands such as call received, push notification or even play alarm. Of course, those are not the exact commands that the hardware will send to the CPU, but you get my drift.
i can't see the power supply on this one for example
http://www.google.hu/imgres?um=1&hl=...9,r:3,s:0,i:71
well anyway we're saying almost the same thing and still arguing
the point is that in sleep mode the processor is not actually doing anything like not running apps and process stuff, just waits for something to happen like a button being pushed or modem sending a wake signal

and afaik the CPU has two main parts CU and ALU (at least PCs they do) and CU controls everything, while ALU does the processing, ALU can completey stop which does the heavy energy consumption

i'm not trying to argue i just want to know if i'm right.

---------- Post added at 07:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 PM ----------

okay PM it is
sorry everyone
 
mustard007
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Default Tun.ko module for OpenVPN

Hi !

this module (/system/lib/modules/tun.ko) is not present in the rom, where I cant get it for the current Neutrino kernel ?

Thanks !
 
Formhault
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Originally Posted by balintmaci View Post
don't use clemsyn kernel and don't undervolt with app
-50mv would be the proper amount, but that doesn't really help on battery life just use EE it's stable and good

or learn how to undervolt in kernel and modify stock cm7 kernel... that's what i'm planning to do.(in the summer probably i don't really have time for that)

btw U=voltage I=amperage R= Resistance (maybe? don't know the english for that)

R=U/I and R should be the same (because we don't change the soc but i don't actually know how it works so correct me)
and I=Q/t
so we can say that Q is electricity, those are the electrons.
so I is how much electron moves on the chip under one second
voltage is the potential difference between two points, it's basically like you try to push something with your voltage and how much you manged to push is Q and Q depends on R, which is like in my example the weight of that something but that's totally different i'm just trying to explain it.
i can't really explain it because english is not my first language, still i hope i managed to give you some idea about it
anyway you should've learnt it in high school i guess, at least that's what we are learning right now.

and wikipedia is your friend

proper answer enough?
I know those formulas... at least some of them. For us, U = voltage, I = intensity (ampers, that is), R = resistance... I guess this is the world-wide standard...
I didn't know Q=I/t. I know the Intensity is the speed of the electrons : how fast they move in. Hence why the phone charges faster with 1A output chargers, and slower at, say, 500mA chargers... But then again, this charger is 0.1V higher than most chargers, which I think makes a difference, too.
I still don't get what's the voltage, potential differences and shtuff. -.-

We should've learnt this in high schools? Nope.avi. In high school, we'd learn that the light from a star being 300 thousand kilometers away would get here in one second. That was the most astonishing thing we've learnt in Physics - well, most of us already knew that

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by balintmaci View Post
meh, i thought they teach it there.
but there is a physics class right?

i don't say that undervolting gives us better battery life, because i can't prove that is reduces heating, and lot of other factors can be the cause of energy drain.

but let's say it's the chip

the electricity that runs the processor turns into heat while it's moving, so if there's no heat, there's no electricity
and it can't just fly away, so that should mean a better battery life.

so if undervolting reduces heating and if the chip uses most of the energy(which is probably true because wifi could eat some, but we can see that it's not that much) then it should give us a better battery life[COLOR="Silver"]
Hmm... That makes sense. The electrons moving around (== amperage) generates the heat. No movement = no electricity = no heat, lol. Okay... But we still want to UV, lol.

---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus671 View Post
Last I checked physics is also college, but advanced classes are starting earlier and earlier these days. So I don't know, I mean they're teaching Cisco courses in high-school here on Guam.
We'd KILL for CISCO courses - among other things, such as gold, money etc. etc. etc.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus671 View Post
You have to remember that when the phone is locked it enters deep sleep mode, which like a computer's hibernate mode, is basically a powered off state, but electricity is still flowing to the CPU. The current is still the same(theoretically), but the voltage changes, if I remember correctly from my DC electronics class there is no current drop in a series circuit, and as far as I know, these circuits are series, that or its parallel circuits. I'm a little foggy in the memory department...
Speaking of deep sleep... On my girlfriend's HTC Desire S, using a custom Sense ROM, I could see with System Tuner, under Voltages, two other frequencies that weren't shown in Clocks : 25 MHz and 65 MHz. I'm thinking those are deep sleep frequencies. And, for normal use, the frequencies are 254 MHz and so forth... In any case, the voltage for 254 MHz (~250, something, I don't remember EXACTLY) was 800mV, and the voltage for 65 MHz was 775mV. If you judge by the voltage, it doesn't look like a huge power saver - not at all. So I'd say yeah, there's a little bit more to power saving than just UV-ing .
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balintmaci
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formhault View Post
I know those formulas... at least some of them. For us, U = voltage, I = intensity (ampers, that is), R = resistance... I guess this is the world-wide standard...
I didn't know Q=I/t.
no I=Q/t (you wrote Q=I/t which is not true) i don't know if it was just a writing mistake on your behalf but just to make sure...


and about potential difference:

A---------------------B 2 points
U1 U2 (here U stands for potential, not voltage.)

On A, there are much more electrons then on B
this means U1<U2 this means U(voltage)=deltaU=U2-U1
when we connect A and B, the electrons will move, from A to B, so that there will be no potential difference, because that is the ideal state.
we divide U by R that gives us I , the 'strenght'? of that electricity thing
we multiply I with the time, while the electrons were moving, that gives us Q, the amount of electrons that moved. and then we can make some calculations to know how much heat it produced
(W=I*U*t=I^2*R*t=U^2/R*t as far as i remember, there R should be a constant, so the heat only depends on the voltage(U^2*t/R))

and heat=used energy/electricity

clearer?
 
nibutto
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please, look if cyanogenMod process for the manual steps of the display crash or not.
This is the link to what I would like to do to reduce light.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1361391
 
Formhault
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balintmaci View Post
no I=Q/t (you wrote Q=I/t which is not true) i don't know if it was just a writing mistake on your behalf but just to make sure...
Okay. Q = electricity; t = time (seconds). I thought electricity = current = ampers (I)? :/

-----

I guess Notorious will burst in flames when he sees 5 pages off-topic`ing about voltages and physics class

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erebus671 View Post
Some phones have a literal SD Card burrows somewhere in its interiors, the Atrix has nand, just built in memory. That's about it.
Why the F do people talk about it as it were an internal SD card? I don't get it. Above all, it's FREAKING MISLEADING. I've seen it in other threads, too, and even devs talk about it as if it were a burried SD card (just like the HTC's with WP7 have)... -.-
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balintmaci
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Okay. Q = electricity; t = time (seconds). I thought electricity = current = ampers (I)? :/

-----

I guess Notorious will burst in flames when he sees 5 pages off-topic`ing about voltages and physics class

---------- Post added at 09:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------



Why the F do people talk about it as it were an internal SD card? I don't get it. Above all, it's FREAKING MISLEADING. I've seen it in other threads, too, and even devs talk about it as if it were a burried SD card (just like the HTC's with WP7 have)... -.-
Q is the amount of electrons that move altogether
I is the amount of electrons that move under 1 second
so when you talk about electricity usage you talk about I most probably, i just wanted to explain what it all is




and even 25MHz is too much
think about it 25 million operations every second, while the phone actually isn't doing anything, i'd still say it's not runnig 'properly' it might get a little energy to handle wake signals and to keep memory and modem on, nothing more
 
Formhault
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does anybody know what the deep sleep frequency is on this phone?
System Tuner doesn't show me additional frequencies under the "Voltage" tab. I guess it happened for it to show me two additional (deep sleep) values on the Desire S because of the kernel, which permitted that...

Since the deep sleep frequency for the Desire S is 25 - 65 MHz, and the lowest value for normal usage (=/= deep sleep, so-to-say) is somewhere near 250 MHz... I'd say it's gotta be the same for all phones whose CPU's fall in that line (lowest point near 250 MHz - at least, by default). In any case, the deep sleep frequency should be below 90 MHz. Hell, I could set the lowest (=/= deep sleep) CPU freq to 192 MHz on the EVO 3D, and 128 MHz (if I remember correctly) on the Desire HD, which had the same chipset as the Desire S.

---------- Post added at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by balintmaci View Post
Q is the amount of electrons that move altogether
I is the amount of electrons that move under 1 second
so when you talk about electricity usage you talk about I most probably, i just wanted to explain what it all is
So... Q isn't even worth mentioning All we care about is I, right?
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