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[TOOL] G2x Nullifier AROMA [UPDATED!] 2 August, fully customizable: Made with AROMA!

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mansa_noob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Волк View Post
Please read above post, again and more carefully. Once you're done, read it again, then stop and think about how quickly one would accumulate 1k writes, even merely on stock. And, yes it would take a damn long time to accumulate 1m writes.
Yes, I agree. But if the flash in the g2x is the 100k type then over time cache would suffer.

Lets do some math shall we: first page of cache written all the time, say 50 times a day would result in failure of that page in 2000 days. If that is moderate use the heavy user could easily achieve that in 1/10th the time. 200 days is < 1 year. The page will fail, but a smart os would just reallocate and hence give longer time.

As I said, I used to work with these things... In heavy use you will see failures!

BTW I read what you wrote. It was very nice.

Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA
 
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(Last edited by menting; 23rd April 2012 at 02:10 AM.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mansa_noob View Post
Yes, I agree. But if the flash in the g2x is the 100k type then over time cache would suffer.

Lets do some math shall we: first page of cache written all the time, say 50 times a day would result in failure of that page in 2000 days. If that is moderate use the heavy user could easily achieve that in 1/10th the time. 200 days is < 1 year. The page will fail, but a smart os would just reallocate and hence give longer time.

As I said, I used to work with these things... In heavy use you will see failures!

BTW I read what you wrote. It was very nice.

Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA
you would only see 100k on SLC, not MLC, as most of these NAND should be.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5067/u...ing-tlc-nand/2
at the 2x node, MLC only lasts for about 2k-3k cycles, and that's on average. the worst crap that might only last for 1k or less cycles go to the cheap flash drives, the middle crap might go to the sd cards. The best ones (the ones that really last 2k-3k or marginally more) go to SSDs. I should know, I work in a company that makes these.
The flash won't keep writing to the same page every time, even though it would think it was writing to the same page of cache like your example , as the controller inside should have write leveling logic to it, and will spread the writes evenly around. But you are still correct, under heavy use the flash will definitely see failures, and will happen sooner than one might expect.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menting View Post
you would only see 100k on SLC, not MLC, as most of these NAND should be.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5067/u...ing-tlc-nand/2
at the 2x node, MLC only lasts for about 2k-3k cycles, and that's on average. the worst crap that might only last for 1k or less cycles go to the cheap flash drives, the middle crap might go to the sd cards. The best ones (the ones that really last 2k-3k or marginally more) go to SSDs. I should know, I work in a company that makes these.
The flash won't keep writing to the same page every time, even though it would think it was writing to the same page of cache like your example , as the controller inside should have write leveling logic to it, and will spread the writes evenly around. But you are still correct, under heavy use the flash will definitely see failures, and will happen sooner than one might expect.
Awesome. I was hoping an expert would step in.

+1. And you are absolutely right that logic is required to ensure same bits are not stressed over and over again!

IMHO this should settle the debate

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Ok, enough thread jacking. I could care less where you work or how old you are. Stating how long you've been around or where you work is just a sign of arrogance. Nand failure from too many writes is a myth with no proof, I see a bunch of if's, if this if that, like I said if it were feesable we'd have seen it spread widely on other devices by now, with or without the black-listing of bad sectors.
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Devices: G2x (sold), Nexus 7 32GB Wifi (bricked), Nexus 5


G2x AIO wipe tool 20 November, made with AROMA and includes AROMA File manager!

G2x AIO

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Волк View Post
Ok, enough thread jacking. I could care less where you work or how old you are. Stating how long you've been around or where you work is just a sign of arrogance. Nand failure from too many writes is a myth with no proof, I see a bunch of if's, if this if that, like I said if it were feesable we'd have seen it spread widely on other devices by now, with or without the black-listing of bad sectors.

WOW...you think it's a myth? Hardly.

I have a dead first generation (but not released) dead SSD from my company in my possession due to firmware not write leveling sector 0 and it wore out. The team leader for that project told me that all the first generation hard drives died about the same time as mine. He even checked it through our internal tools. That proof enough?

Want more proof? If it is a myth, why do SSD hard drives have a write endurance spec? Why do SSDs bother to overprovision? Why are NAND manufacturers worried about write endurance on new process nodes? I mean, if it's a myth, it shouldn't be something to worry about right? Apparently you know more about NAND than those manufacturers.
Here's even more proof. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...e-25nm-Vs-34nm

I'd get you the write endurance distribution graphs from work if I could, but those numbers are proprietary. I can guarantee you though, it DOES wear out from writes.

To me, arrogance is one who doesn't work in the industry saying the person who does work in the industry is wrong without any proof.
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Волк
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Didn't I *just* say something about staying on topic?
Remember guys: Волк = Volk (Google it for a translation)

Devices: G2x (sold), Nexus 7 32GB Wifi (bricked), Nexus 5


G2x AIO wipe tool 20 November, made with AROMA and includes AROMA File manager!

G2x AIO

New 29 Sept
AIO wipe tool O2x version

6 October
AIO wipe tool G2/DZ version

[Nexus 5 version available via pm, though haven't seen a need for it with this phone]
 
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yes you did, and if you stopped at that I wouldn't have replied. But insulting someone's knowledge by saying a fact is a myth went a bit too far for me.
 
Alakratt
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On my next flash I'll try this tool, haven't tried it since I get a little freaked out because of the word 'null', I am programmer so...yeah. I've looked most of the pages on this thread, I admit not all of them, I have a question; I know this wipes what needs to be wiped for ROM flashing, but does it wipe only that or the whole SD? Also, does it also wipe the internal SD?
 
owain94
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What is exactly the point of "nullifing" the cache partition on a device where the cache partition isn't used??

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da-pharoah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owain94 View Post
What is exactly the point of "nullifing" the cache partition on a device where the cache partition isn't used??

Sent from my LG-P990 using xda premium
? ok and how is it not used? and if it "isn't used" why would we need to format it upon doing any update on something you say 'isnt used?"





 

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