Damn unknown13x, you are killing me

Originally Posted by 1Learning

The only way to get a proper scientific survey would be to have 2 completely identical phones (e.g. battery, screen resolution, camera, software) in the same market at the same price (i.e. all other factors being equal) by the same manufacturer with one having a dual-core and the other having a quad-core and see what people buy (much like a car manufacturer offering a 4, 6, or 8 cylinder car model). Obviously that is not happening in phones or at least hasn't yet.

Provided that people actually understand what they are buying. Otherwise it would be the same stupid "the more the better" numbers race, like that megapixel insanity we had a few years ago. As it currently looks, the multicore is on its way to turn to the same kind of hype.

I agree that having more power doesn't hurt. While it is not necessary now, who is to say it will not be necessary in the future? When the X10 was being developed, according to SE anyway, they didn't use a proper multitouch screen or a screen that could handle the increased colors that came with Android 2.x+ b/c it wasn't what 1.6 could handle.

Actually, it does hurt. That's why it is not a very useful analogy. While multitouch does not cost you anything (except money), multicore actually costs you energy and performance regardless if you actually use it or not. Even if you switch off the unneeded CPU's you will still drain more power than with a "native" dualcore.

As it currently stands, CPU designers are forced to operate within certain thermal and die area budgets. You simply can't go over them, no matter how many cores you have. More cores means less area per core. And less power to consume.
Current technology (no matter by which manufacturer) basically offers 2 opposites: quicker and hotter or slower and cooler (but not necessary more power efficient).
So, if you opt for 4 cores, you are forced to make them simpler (because of available space) and limit the maximum clock (because of thermal budget) as you would do it for dual core.

This is why Samsung quadcore clocks only to 1.4Ghz and according to the first tests seems to offer much worse single thread performance than dualcore qualcomm S4. So it will be actually slower than qualcomm S4 on single thread performance and more or less similar on multithreaded. So, where is that quadcore advantage again?

Raw processing power does matter to help "future proof" the phone so that it can last just a little longer for one thing...whether it matters enough to detract someone from buying the phone is that person's choice. I think it is fair to say that it is definitely something to consider.

The processing power is not the same thing as processing power. Ir does not simply add up. Better singlethread performance sustainable over longer periods of time will bring you much further as lower singlethread performance with occasional short quadcore bursts (before throttling kicking in due to the overheating).

I like SE/Sony's phones in general and always eagerly look to see what they are doing but it does feel like I am being charged a premium for design over technology. The latest Samsung Galaxy S has a pretty decent battery life (according to GSM Arena) so even if its quad-core is not necessarily faster than the Krait dual-cores in certain tasks or to be able to be fully implemented yet, I wouldn't exactly say that it's taking an usability hit (according to Sony, one of the reasons they chose to stick with dual-cores is b/c of battery life).

Of course it would take a usability hit. Just look at the HTC OneX.

As for the being "future proof" there are 2 very important things to consider:

1. You do not want current quadcores running on their full power. Or your phone will get painful to hold and simply throttle itself getting even slower.

2. Given the dual- and quadcore with a similar raw performance, in the real life dualcore will be mostly significantly quicker as quadcore. And never vice versa. So, if quadcore exynos and tegra are considered "future proof", then dualcore S4 is future proof too. The same can't be said vice versa.

3. Most of the things can't be parallelized in any meaningful way because of their sequential nature. And for the cases where they can, more often than not it would be much better handled by GPU. It is not because "developers are lazy". There really are not a lot of ways to break the average task in several independent chunks.

Try it yourself, you will see what I am talking about. Just write some useful application and try to "optimize" it for quadcore. You will see how little you will find worth to reimplement multithreaded. And even less to occupy more than 2 threads.

Anyway, the current "sweet spot" seems to be a dualcore.

You only need to look at the new iPad to see how the extra performance causes problems with heat. Some developers have already expressed concerns about it, as they can't actually use the power because of the heat problem - and power consumption that exceeds the rate by which you can charge the iPad!

It's mad to think you can have a device being powered that can run out of battery, although I am not suggesting that this is going to happen on a One X or GS3 under full load.

Even the Xperia S has a service that monitors the temperature to cut performance if things get hot.

The thing is though; many people will want the most powerful device they can get at the time of purchase (especially when entering into a long contract) so they'll probably think of the One X or GS3 for future proofing, without ever being aware of the technical issues you've mentioned.

Retailers will hardly rush to inform customers, even if they understood themselves!

You could give someon a £100 prepay Huawei G300, with a single-core 1GHz processor or an Xperia U with a 1GHz dual core processor (circa £150) and pretend it had a quad-core processor, then demo how quickly the menus scroll and you can jump from one app to another. The fact is, even fairly low-end models are now of an incredibly high standard and sufficient to meet the needs of most people.

I've said before - if there were more apps to really use the power (or even apps that could only operate IF you had such power) then I'd begin to believe you should buy one to protect yourself for the future, but the two things I'd be seeking to have on a device now would be enough RAM and good battery life. Ironically, until Samsung made a big thing of its larger than normal battery, few manufacturers seemed to think this mattered. [To be fair; Motorola did so before with the Razr MAXX, but I'm in the UK and Motorola has pathetic distribution here, such that you'll only really get one SIM-free from online retailers].

I have question (I'm new here and a noob, so excuse my stupidity): why does everyone listen to what unknown13x says?

Originally Posted by Readler

I have question (I'm new here and a noob, so excuse my stupidity): why does everyone listen to what unknown13x says?

He is a good player

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2

Originally Posted by unknown13x

But doesn't have to be June though right?

is there going to be AVRCP 1.3 or newer in sony's ICS, so my sony bluetooth devices can display meta data with sony smartphone?

This mentality of comparing specs separetely is just plain wrong.
The S3 right after it's launch had everything to be a major bust for Samsung.
Now it's on the path to become it's biggest success, and write it down, it will.
Blablabla Krait is better core to core. It's better than Tegra 3. It's very, very slightly better than the Exynos. Both of them are not pure A9 chips. Although the Krait has more similarities to the A15 architecture, the die size of the Exynos is a major advantage, leaving them in almost the same level of power usage and performance core by core.
Why do you think that the S3, even having a quad core processor, and a SAMOLED screen performed slightly better at 3g browsing than the AT&T One X? Yes, if the S4 HOX had the same battery it would have had a better performance, but guess what, it does not have it. The S4 and the old Adreno GPU it comes with are bad at memory management. That's the reason why the AT&T HOX has bad multitasking, lag in the launcher and lag while browsing. And it's also the reason why the SGS3 in the Japanese market, which comes with a S4 has 2gb of RAM.
Krait is good, but it's not that good. The S4 Pro with the new Adreno will, hopefully solve these problems and, again hopefully, be in the Hayabusa.
And reading "quad cores are not used right now so they are useless, a waste"...
I feel sorry for Sony for not thinking in the future.

Originally Posted by gm007

He is a good player

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2

So, this makes him legit?!

@Lucasm93
I think Sony doesn't have to think in the future when the majority of smartphones users changes their phone after one to two years (or when their contract's running out). And for the coming two years, a Dual-Core Krait is enough imo. As you said, it's nearly on par with the current quads and Sony optimizes their software very well (Xperia S with Snapdragon S3 vs. that one HTC with S3).
Though I'm hoping for a S4 Pro, too. THAT would make the Hayabusa the fastest current phone I guess. But unknown said that there won't be a S4 Pro

Originally Posted by jonmorris

You only need to look at the new iPad to see how the extra performance causes problems with heat. Some developers have already expressed concerns about it, as they can't actually use the power because of the heat problem - and power consumption that exceeds the rate by which you can charge the iPad!

This Apple "problem" is actually quite telling case of "future proofing" (or the lack of it).

Early on apple made (an implicit) promise: things like display resolution are as they are and will never change. The developers said "great" and actually became dependent on it. Because it is so much easier, the same resolution, the same format.
And mocked those poor Android developers because of their "fragmentation" shortcoming.

Then came ipad with a different resolution. What apple did? The only thing they could: iphone apps were displayed in a small window in the middle of the screen. Or just scaled 2x.
Ok, in case of iphone->ipad that "incompatibility" actually made sense as it pushed developers to actually redo the applications. Which is the "problem" with Android, because the applications "automagically" do look more or less useable on tablets, so the developers do not quite feel the urge to do something immediately.

But the time moved and the iphone/ipad resolution was getting "inadequate". What did apple do? The only thing they could without breaking all of the apps: they autmatically scaled everything 2x. And spun that as the best thing after sliced bread, although technically it was an overkill. The iphone4 display would be as beautiful as it is with less pixels. And consume much less power.

Then came ipad3. They also couldn't do anything else, but scale 2x. Except by doing this they were forced to really push limits and got themselves serious problems. Like the GPU was suddenly required to be 4 times as quick, you need 4 times as much graphical memory, wider buses and your display is 4 times more opaque, so you need adequately more powerful LED's to compsensate. And bigger batteries. Just to retain their previous performance.

Anyway, the thing is, all of this was not necessary. The ipad3 could have just like a 1.5x bigger resolution and optically it would be exactly as stunning as it is now. But with less weight, with a CPU/GPU not running as hot, with brighter display, longer lasting batteries, cheaper, thinner and so on. But they just could not because of their previous decisions.

But this is totally different kind of "future proofing" problems.

Btw, it remains interesting what apple will do with their iphone5. If they enlarge the display, they will be forced to make the phone wider. Or if they change the display side ratio then they will break (and "fragment") their applications. Or they will need to resort to some "system bar" which will use up that additional place until the apps will catch up.

Originally Posted by Readler

I have question (I'm new here and a noob, so excuse my stupidity): why does everyone listen to what unknown13x says?

It's never really been said out loud, but he's implied that he works for Sony, or at least a partner. His information has always been accurate. If there is anyone to trust on Sony (Ericsson) matters, it's unknown13x.