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A2CKilla
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Originally Posted by Cellular-Decay View Post
Actually, you are the one who is ridiculous. The word "unlimited" is pretty clearly defined. Look it up in the dictionary. There is no vagueness or ambiguity about its meaning, so any company that uses the term "unlimited" in their marketing, and then includes fine print in their contract to explain the limits of their "unlimited" plans is lying, plain and simple.

unĚlimĚitĚed adjective

Definition of UNLIMITED

1. lacking any controls : unrestricted <unlimited access>
2. boundless, infinite <unlimited possibilities>
3. not bounded by exceptions


Unlimited means without limits, period. If you impose limits to something marketed as unlimited, then that's fraud.

Sorry, but I am really sick of the nonsense companies get away with in their marketing. If it's not limits to unlimited plans, it's free stuff you have to pay a separate "processing" fee for, or a 50 inch "class" TV that is really only 49.5 inches, and don't even get me started with hard drive sizes! It's sad that most people willingly accept being defrauded and ripped off. In your case, even to the point of defending the very companies that are reaming you. Companies really need to be held accountable for this crap!
Though I agree with you on the unlimited statement, the others I don't

1. Most people know you'll never get a fully advertised hard drive space because of accolation and things like that

2. You will never get the actually size of a an advertised tv because of the frame or housing, if you literally only got the screen then you'd have an a argument

3. With free items, yes there's a processing fee, but sometimes it's so miniscule most people just say it's free unless you're a penny pincher

So that's my rant for the day

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"if you don't like sprint (and or price changes that are stated to change at anytime in the contract THAT YOU SIGNED!!!!) then you can giiiit oouuutt"
 
Cellular-Decay
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(Last edited by Cellular-Decay; 8th July 2013 at 03:25 AM.) Reason: fixed a spelling error
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Originally Posted by A2CKilla View Post
Though I agree with you on the unlimited statement, the others I don't

1. Most people know you'll never get a fully advertised hard drive space because of accolation and things like that
Incorrect.

Hard drive makers define terms like "Kilobyte", "Megabyte" and "Gigabyte" differently from the way a computer measures it. Computers work in base-2, so everything is powers of 2. A kilobyte is 1024 bytes to a computer (2^10), but HDD makers says it's only 1000 bytes. As sizes go up this gets exponentially worse. A gigabyte is 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes (2^30), or 1,073,741,824 bytes to a computer, but only 1,000,000,000 bytes to the HDD maker.

The result is that hard drives are roughly 7% smaller than their advertised capacity. This may not seem like much, but it's the same as if you went to a store to purchase a 40 inch TV and found out you only got a 37 inch when you got it home.

System memory makers do not do this. If you buy 8 GB of RAM for your computer, you get 8 GB of RAM (8,589,934,592 bytes, not 8,000,000,000 bytes). Flash memory makers used to be honest as well, but now they are playing the same "round it down" game.


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Originally Posted by A2CKilla View Post
2. You will never get the actually size of a an advertised tv because of the frame or housing, if you literally only got the screen then you'd have an a argument
Also incorrect.

Back in the CRT days this was true, because CRT screens didn't have straight edges and square corners, so the bezel covered part of the screen to make it look prettier. LCD screens do not have any imaging area under the bezel. For a very long time LCD screen sizes were as advertised, but now they are starting to "fudge" the numbers in the marketing hype.

My older 20 inch monitor has an actual 20 inch diagonal image size. Same for my older 40 inch Sony XBR3 TV - it has a full 40 inch diagonal image size. When you see the word "class" added to the screen size, it means you are not getting the advertised screen size. "Class" is some kind of marketing disclaimer word that means "it's almost the size we say it is". If it's a 49.2 inch screen, then it should be advertised as such, and not a 50 inch "class" screen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A2CKilla View Post
3. With free items, yes there's a processing fee, but sometimes it's so miniscule most people just say it's free unless you're a penny pincher
We can agree to disagree on that. Free is free. It's another one of those words that has a very clearly defined meaning. If you say something is free and then charge a fee for it, it's not free.

Shipping fees I might be able to forgive, it's those mysterious, undefined "processing" fees that irk me. And even the shipping fees are kind of a rip. Why should you pay 2 full price shipping fees when throwing 2 items in a single box only costs slightly more to ship in most cases.

It's not about being a penny pincher, it's about honesty and respect. Marketing, in most cases, is about taking advantage of the consumer. It assumes we are too stupid to know any better, and its goal is to cheat us. It may be only a little cheat, but it's still wrong.



Anyway, that's my rant to your rant.

Nice debating with you. We now return to our regularly scheduled topic.

Aloha, Tim
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A2CKilla
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Originally Posted by Cellular-Decay View Post
Incorrect.

Hard drive makers define terms like "Kilobyte", "Megabyte" and "Gigabyte" differently from the way a computer measures it. Computers work in base-2, so everything is powers of 2. A kilobyte is 1024 bytes to a computer (2^10), but HDD makers says it's only 1000 bytes. As sizes go up this gets exponentially worse. A gigabyte is 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes (2^30), or 1,073,741,824 bytes to a computer, but only 1,000,000,000 bytes to the HDD maker.

The result is that hard drives are roughly 7% smaller than their advertised capacity. This may not seem like much, but it's the same as if you went to a store to purchase a 40 inch TV and found out you only got a 37 inch when you got it home.

System memory makers do not do this. If you buy 8 GB of RAM for your computer, you get 8 GB of RAM (8,589,934,592 bytes, not 8,000,000,000 bytes). Flash memory makers used to be honest as well, but now they are playing the same "round it down" game.


Also incorrect.

Back in the CRT days this was true, because CRT screens didn't have straight edges and square corners, so the bezel covered part of the screen to make it look prettier. LCD screens do not have any imaging area under the bezel. For a very long time LCD screen sizes were as advertised, but now they are starting to "fudge" the numbers in the marketing hype.

My older 20 inch monitor has an actual 20 inch diagonal image size. Same for my older 40 inch Sony XBR3 TV - it has a full 40 inch diagonal image size. When you see the word "class" added to the screen size, it means you are not getting the advertised screen size. "Class" is some kind of marketing disclaimer word that means "it's almost the size we say it is". If it's a 49.2 inch screen, then it should be advertised as such, and not a 50 inch "class" screen.




We can agree to disagree on that. Free is free. It's another one of those words that has a very clearly defined meaning. If you say something is free and then charge a fee for it, it's not free.

Shipping fees I might be able to forgive, it's those mysterious, undefined "processing" fees that irk me. And even the shipping fees are kind of a rip. Why should you pay 2 full price shipping fees when throwing 2 items in a single box only costs slightly more to ship in most cases.

It's not about being a penny pincher, it's about honesty and respect. Marketing, in most cases, is about taking advantage of the consumer. It assumes we are too stupid to know any better, and its goal is to cheat us. It may be only a little cheat, but it's still wrong.



Anyway, that's my rant to your rant.

Nice debating with you. We now return to our regularly scheduled topic.

Aloha, Tim
Yes a respectful debate, it's nice have one of those, and I do see your points sir, the only one that still gets me is the drive space thing, I do see where you're coming from, from the computer stand point, but even so, take a 1gb flash drive and plug it into the computer, because of that small formatting, it's always less then a gig, I've always noticed this, even with something like my iPod, 32gb, but, after it formats, 27-28.something gigs free, so it's not that I don't think makers are lying, blame formating, and the ram, I can't argue with that, unless you're talking 32-bit,lol,but that's another story

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c5satellite2
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"UNLIMITED" means only one thing last time I checked. If it is anything else, it is LIMITED. There is no other way to interpret the word "UNLIMITED". This is truly false advertising and it needs to stop already. This is consumer fraud, period. Unfortunately we have little or no rights to sue corporations anymore and they do whatever they please these days. Good luck in THEIR arbitration court. Tort reform in the US has destroyed our available avenues for recourse. Guess who lobbied and paid for that? Large corporations.
Best recourse we do have is to not do business with the companies who participate in bad business practices like false advertising and consumer fraud.

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Product F(RED)
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Originally Posted by Cellular-Decay View Post
Actually, you are the one who is ridiculous. The word "unlimited" is pretty clearly defined. Look it up in the dictionary. There is no vagueness or ambiguity about its meaning, so any company that uses the term "unlimited" in their marketing, and then includes fine print in their contract to explain the limits of their "unlimited" plans is lying, plain and simple.

unĚlimĚitĚed adjective

Definition of UNLIMITED

1. lacking any controls : unrestricted <unlimited access>
2. boundless, infinite <unlimited possibilities>
3. not bounded by exceptions


Unlimited means without limits, period. If you impose limits to something marketed as unlimited, then that's fraud.

Sorry, but I am really sick of the nonsense companies get away with in their marketing. If it's not limits to unlimited plans, it's free stuff you have to pay a separate "processing" fee for, or a 50 inch "class" TV that is really only 49.5 inches, and don't even get me started with hard drive sizes! It's sad that most people willingly accept being defrauded and ripped off. In your case, even to the point of defending the very companies that are reaming you. Companies really need to be held accountable for this crap!
While I agree with you from a moral and ethical standpoint, you were the one who agreed to the fine print, whether or not you actually read it (which I'm doubting you did). Again, I'm not siding with the carriers, but there's fine print that says that they can throttle you if you impede the network in your area (e.g. you strain the tower nearest you). So while you can argue that it's BS, you still agreed to it.

If you want a network that doesn't throttle you on their unlimited plan, go with T-Mobile's $70 unlimited everything plan. I know people who've used 200+ GB in a month and have never been throttled. As someone who used to work for Sprint (and a customer before and afterwards), I can tell you that their network is already strained as it is. In case you haven't noticed, their 3G network can barely support their customers. That's why they resorted to throttling people (and by the way, only very high data usage customers. To be throttled on Sprint is rare). This was my last speed test with them:



It was like this for over a year. I'm glad I left them. If they're bothering you that much, then you should consider it to. But again, my point is you legally agreed to it (throttling) even if you morally didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c5satellite2 View Post
"UNLIMITED" means only one thing last time I checked. If it is anything else, it is LIMITED. There is no other way to interpret the word "UNLIMITED". This is truly false advertising and it needs to stop already. This is consumer fraud, period. Unfortunately we have little or no rights to sue corporations anymore and they do whatever they please these days. Good luck in THEIR arbitration court. Tort reform in the US has destroyed our available avenues for recourse. Guess who lobbied and paid for that? Large corporations.
Best recourse we do have is to not do business with the companies who participate in bad business practices like false advertising and consumer fraud.

Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I agree with you completely. My responses in this thread including the one above are only written after taking what you wrote into consideration. I DO agree that it's false advertising. However, like I said above, the interpretation is unfortunately up to them.

HTC Evo 4G -> HTC Evo 3D/Nexus S 4G -> Galaxy S II -> iPhone 4S -> Galaxy S II -> Galaxy Nexus -> Galaxy S3 i9300 -> Galaxy Note 2 i317 -> Galaxy Note 2 T889


 
c5satellite2
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Continued discussion, not rebuttal

The whole "you agreed to it in the fine print" is the problem. The BIG print says one thing very clearly UNLIMITED, something any "reasonable person" will interpret only one way. The fine print says 5000 different complicated things that are intentionally worded so that any "reasonable person", who is not a lawyer, can't understand it. Since the majority of customers aren't lawyers, and cannot afford to have a lawyer scrutinize the fine print on everything, they are just pulling a bait and switch "legally". This practice is inherently illegal due to their intentional wording of the fine print to confuse and bewilder a reasonable person and their use of said "fine print" to hide their deceit. Morally, ethically, and legally this is wrong. The legal system unfortunately has become perverse beyond imagination and is now designed to allow businesses to basically do what they please when it comes to fleecing the public.

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Product F(RED)
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Originally Posted by c5satellite2 View Post
Continued discussion, not rebuttal

The whole "you agreed to it in the fine print" is the problem. The BIG print says one thing very clearly UNLIMITED, something any "reasonable person" will interpret only one way. The fine print says 5000 different complicated things that are intentionally worded so that any "reasonable person", who is not a lawyer, can't understand it. Since the majority of customers aren't lawyers, and cannot afford to have a lawyer scrutinize the fine print on everything, they are just pulling a bait and switch "legally". This practice is inherently illegal due to their intentional wording of the fine print to confuse and bewilder a reasonable person and their use of said "fine print" to hide their deceit. Morally, ethically, and legally this is wrong. The legal system unfortunately has become perverse beyond imagination and is now designed to allow businesses to basically do what they please when it comes to fleecing the public.

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Again, I agree. I also stated that T-Mobile doesn't throttle on their clearly-labeled unlimited plan (the $70 plan). The issue is bigger, and beyond the carrier. The carriers are barely regulated because of all of the lobbying the do in congress. The FCC doesn't have the power to do its job either, which is to make sure this kind of crap doesn't happen. This isn't really something that can be fixed overnight, so that's why my response was the way it is. So either stay and complain, or switch to a company who is more honest and forward with their services.

HTC Evo 4G -> HTC Evo 3D/Nexus S 4G -> Galaxy S II -> iPhone 4S -> Galaxy S II -> Galaxy Nexus -> Galaxy S3 i9300 -> Galaxy Note 2 i317 -> Galaxy Note 2 T889


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c5satellite2
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I agree. Pretty much all we can do is to not give them our money. Or fix our bastardized joke of a "legal" system.

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Wow. Of all the threads to necro..

Thought this has been beat to death already, but again:
Unlimited does not include things that violate TOS. (tethering, file sharing, etc.)

Also: Contracts are scary hard, huh? A tl;dr thing? A 'reasonable' person would actually READ the contract, see the service levels actually promised and understand the limitations for bandwidth usage. If need be, get a parent or an adult friend to help.

If you really think it is false advertising, stop trying to be an internet lawyer. Go hire an actual lawyer and see if you can split a payday with them. They LOVE money, so I wish you luck in that. Really do. Problem is, well paid lawyers drafted the contracts you agree to - and there is language in it to protect your service provider's butt already against your allegation.

I say the hell with the odds though. Go for it!
 
Cellular-Decay
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While I agree with you from a moral and ethical standpoint, you were the one who agreed to the fine print, whether or not you actually read it (which I'm doubting you did). Again, I'm not siding with the carriers, but there's fine print that says that they can throttle you if you impede the network in your area (e.g. you strain the tower nearest you). So while you can argue that it's BS, you still agreed to it.
Actually, I didn't. I'm not a Sprint customer. I was just voicing my opinion on the matter because this kind of thing irks me. And I always read the fine print. That's how I figured out how to get unlimited data (with tethering) for $10/month. Gotta love the loopholes.


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Yes a respectful debate, it's nice have one of those, and I do see your points sir, the only one that still gets me is the drive space thing, I do see where you're coming from, from the computer stand point, but even so, take a 1gb flash drive and plug it into the computer, because of that small formatting, it's always less then a gig, I've always noticed this, even with something like my iPod, 32gb, but, after it formats, 27-28.something gigs free, so it's not that I don't think makers are lying, blame formating, and the ram, I can't argue with that, unless you're talking 32-bit,lol,but that's another story
It has nothing to do with formatting. The numbers I'm referring to are the raw HDD capacity. Yes, formatting uses up some additional space, but what I was trying to explain is that HDD sizes are 7% smaller than advertised BEFORE formatting.


And yes, if you are unhappy with your provider, the solution is to stop giving them your money and take your business elsewhere. Everyone I know who's been with Sprint says they suck.

Of course you can find people who say that about any carrier, so who sucks the least right now?

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