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Samsung Disappoints on Yet Another Front

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rkirmeier
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Originally Posted by dpersuhn View Post
This thread really has been a good exercise in shaking out the Samsung cheerleaders, hasn't it? I bring up an availability concern and you'd think I went around personally slapping some folks upside the head. Oddly, I have yet to see any retort of technical merit. Fascinating...
You sound more like a naggy complaining wife who needs to be heard and acknowledged. Yes, dear... IT really sucks that Samsung's services went down for a faction of a day because they had a major fire. Those bastards, they should burn in hell.

Feel better now???

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by dpersuhn View Post
Samsung.com, samsung app and media stores, Hancom updater, cloud backup and restore. In my case, I was working on updating client docs for a morning meeting and only had my tablet with me. When I tried to use Hword, it kept bombing out for some reason. As a last resort, I figured if try to reinstall Hword, but couldn't because the samsung App Store was unavailable. I ended up buying Polaris office just so I could finish working. Not sure why Hword was dead, but it worked fine after the App Store came back online and I was able to reinstall.
Sounds like life... You experience a problem and worked around it. Get over it!

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by dpersuhn View Post
Personally, I wish Samsung would stop trying to host content and services for these devices and fall back to letting google do that part. Nothing spells fun like orphaned apps if I switch tablets. Just ask apple, they have a pile of them I left behind when I dumped my iPad.
So you wish Samsung wouldn't do this and there are clearly many other options but you use there services anyways? Make perfect sense!

I personally have no interest in Samsungs hosted services. I disabled the samsung app store and apps like hword. Did you try using Quick Office from Google and Google Drive or Dropbox?
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dodo99x
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aygriffith
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Isn't there a section on XDA that moderators can move all the "Samsung Sucks" threads to?

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Mike02z
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(Last edited by Mike02z; 27th April 2014 at 03:35 PM.)
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Guess I'm the ass. I take it seriously for two reasons. 1. I forked over serious cash for a device that is supposed to be a business tool and expect Samsung to provide services at an appropriate level as such. 2. Infrastructure design has been my life for nearly two decades, so I see failures like this in a different light than most folks on here. If you think I'm overstating my position, realize that there are some IT folks who did or probably will lose their jobs over that outage.

As for netflix being unavailable at your house for months on end, wow. I can't believe that people tolerate handing cash over to a company (guessing your ISP in this case, maybe Comcast?) while they blatantly refuse to provide the services that you subscribed to (aka the best effort clause in every service provider agreement).

Personally, I wish Samsung would stop trying to host content and services for these devices and fall back to letting google do that part. Nothing spells fun like orphaned apps if I switch tablets. Just ask apple, they have a pile of them I left behind when I dumped my iPad.

Most likely Samsung outsources their network infrastructure and may even outsource the server infrastructure or entire data center. In this day and age there is no single finger to point in most cases. It is a mass of managed service providers that don't reveal the over extension of resources both infrastructure and human. Most companies don't care as they have payed for a fully managed service. All they know they are now paying 30% less in annual maintenance costs and then simply monetarily penalize the vendors for not meeting their SLA commitments.

While the tide may be changing, most large to very large companies use managed services for many if not most IT functions. Many have moved to the big boys of HP, IBM, SunGard, Google etc. to manage their entire IT Infrastructure including networking and data center management.

All that being said, I think people throw "5 9's" around just because they read it someplace. I believe 5 9;s for a 24x7 operation is about 8 minutes (maybe it's 20 but not doing the math) of downtime per year. This is an extremely difficult metric to achieve. Even with clustered environments and dual path independent network providers, things happen. We have a large array that is 5 9's availability but that didn't stop an inexperienced vendor technician from taking the main array down for maintenance and then pulling the wrong cable and bringing down the redundant array and pulling the disk out from about 100+ DB servers for a top 50 Fortune 500 company. When we asked what happened to the tech as part of the Post Mortem, we were told he was pulled from our account and will undergo "further training". Sh*t happens and it seems some companies have lost the traditional pride in having in-house resources manage these large environments. It all comes down to $$$.

Just as an FYI I have nearly 30 years experience in managing enterprise class Tier 2/3/4 data centers and related services.

Off my soapbox now
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dpersuhn
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I couldn't agree more. Maintaining that level of availability requires an exceptional level of change control discipline, peer review, and fault tolerance. It adds cost and makes system maintenance, upgrades, and changes a huge pain in the a$$. IF Samsung outsourced this, you're also correct that the SLA breach (depending in the contract terms) would likely carry a financial penalty.

I use five nines as an extreme example, but also point out that Google was only showing availability on the order of four nines.

Had a single service been affected, I wouldn't have thought much about it. Had everything been down for an hour or so, it would have been a major outage, but I'd reasonably give them that one. It's the fact that everything was offline for half a day that I found to be a bit striking for a company that markets products that advertise a number of those services as core features.

Maybe a post-mortem will cause samsung to revise their DR strategy, maybe it won't. Without knowing what their service level targets are, who could say. Perhaps they regard the services offered as purely for entertainment purposes and consider the outage to be perfectly acceptable, as many on this forum do. Hopefully it will never be tested again, especially with a life-threatening disaster.

My bottom line point is that this outage demonstrated what a service loss at Samsung could look like. Samsung promotes their pro line tablets as business tools. They never stated what kind of reliability comes with the backend services that accompany those business tools, but now we know and can plan accordingly. If you could find yourself in a position where loss of access for half a day would put you in a bind, it became apparent that alternative solutions need to be considered. Samsung may never have another outage of this sort again, but they aren't publishing an SLA to their customers, so historical data is all we can use and this event was historically significant. I guess I'm the only one that was surprised or even bothered by it, which is fine. In such a case, Samsung is doing exactly as they should, spending the minimum amount of money to provide a service level that just meets the demands of the majority of their customer base.

XDA members represent a small subset of the user base and one that I would consider to be more demanding of their devices than the average user. This thread has yielded some really interesting perspectives on what people consider to be appropriate service levels for consumer services in modern times. I'm obviously an outlier on high availability side, but what would have been the other end of that spectrum? A full day? Two? A week? Just curious...

Maybe my clients are spending way too much on availability because they assume the average consumer is more demanding than they really are. Restoring from backups to a DR site is certainly cheaper than maintaining multiple active datacenters and near realtime data replication across a distance that can be considered survivable in the event of a natural disaster.
 
Mike02z
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Originally Posted by dpersuhn View Post
I couldn't agree more. Maintaining that level of availability requires an exceptional level of change control discipline, peer review, and fault tolerance. It adds cost and makes system maintenance, upgrades, and changes a huge pain in the a$$. IF Samsung outsourced this, you're also correct that the SLA breach (depending in the contract terms) would likely carry a financial penalty.

I use five nines as an extreme example, but also point out that Google was only showing availability on the order of four nines.

Had a single service been affected, I wouldn't have thought much about it. Had everything been down for an hour or so, it would have been a major outage, but I'd reasonably give them that one. It's the fact that everything was offline for half a day that I found to be a bit striking for a company that markets products that advertise a number of those services as core features.

Maybe a post-mortem will cause samsung to revise their DR strategy, maybe it won't. Without knowing what their service level targets are, who could say. Perhaps they regard the services offered as purely for entertainment purposes and consider the outage to be perfectly acceptable, as many on this forum do. Hopefully it will never be tested again, especially with a life-threatening disaster.

My bottom line point is that this outage demonstrated what a service loss at Samsung could look like. Samsung promotes their pro line tablets as business tools. They never stated what kind of reliability comes with the backend services that accompany those business tools, but now we know and can plan accordingly. If you could find yourself in a position where loss of access for half a day would put you in a bind, it became apparent that alternative solutions need to be considered. Samsung may never have another outage of this sort again, but they aren't publishing an SLA to their customers, so historical data is all we can use and this event was historically significant. I guess I'm the only one that was surprised or even bothered by it, which is fine. In such a case, Samsung is doing exactly as they should, spending the minimum amount of money to provide a service level that just meets the demands of the majority of their customer base.

XDA members represent a small subset of the user base and one that I would consider to be more demanding of their devices than the average user. This thread has yielded some really interesting perspectives on what people consider to be appropriate service levels for consumer services in modern times. I'm obviously an outlier on high availability side, but what would have been the other end of that spectrum? A full day? Two? A week? Just curious...

Maybe my clients are spending way too much on availability because they assume the average consumer is more demanding than they really are. Restoring from backups to a DR site is certainly cheaper than maintaining multiple active datacenters and near realtime data replication across a distance that can be considered survivable in the event of a natural disaster.
All valid points. I suspect under the "Terms of Service" you accept when you first setup the device it states somewhere that their service(s) being down can in no way be held against them.
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