Hardware Hacking x201 : IP67 Compliance

martinbogo1 · Apr 5, 2014

Hi there ...

For now, treat your watch like you would your SmartPhone. Try not to dunk it in water, and keep it away from strong water sprays and strongly humid conditions (like your bathroom after you take a shower).

-Martin

martinbogo1 · Apr 5, 2014

Status Update:

I have found four different versions of the TrueSmart watch so far, as far as important considerations for seals/gaskets and kits are concerned.

So far I:

Tested a silicone lubricant for water proofing the seals
Modeled a soft, flexible and wider silicone seal to replace the small O-ring seal on the watch back cover.
Button cap covers have been handed to a 3D CAD designing service to make a mold with.
Am Investigating how water resistant the speaker grill is, and the audio slot in the watch band.

Assuming there are ~100 people willing to purchase kits, it seems the production of a waterproofing kit is viable. I may have to look into either doing an indigogo or kickstarter though. Ironic that we need ANOTHER kickstarter to repair the watch, but there you go.

-Martin

Helgaiden · Apr 7, 2014

martinbogo1 said:
Status Update:

I have found four different versions of the TrueSmart watch so far, as far as important considerations for seals/gaskets and kits are concerned.

So far I:

Tested a silicone lubricant for water proofing the seals

Modeled a soft, flexible and wider silicone seal to replace the small O-ring seal on the watch back cover.

Button cap covers have been handed to a 3D CAD designing service to make a mold with.

Am Investigating how water resistant the speaker grill is, and the audio slot in the watch band.

Assuming there are ~100 people willing to purchase kits, it seems the production of a waterproofing kit is viable. I may have to look into either doing an indigogo or kickstarter though. Ironic that we need ANOTHER kickstarter to repair the watch, but there you go.

-Martin

Awesome keep up the good work

rhineymac · Apr 7, 2014

The ts 2 is being introduced in sept. So I'm not sure if the ts we have now will be worth fixing. With the lack of support now I can't see there being any support once the next version is introduced

martinbogo1 · Apr 8, 2014

It's always worth improving what you have!!! One of the reasons that the XDA forums exist is to give new life to android devices that are flawed, past their prime, or whose manufacturers stopped supporting them.

I have CyanogenMod 10.1 running on my HTC One V. That's KITKAT on a One V. With only one problem, native camera support.

This is a tough challenge, for a lot of reasons. I now have measurements on at least four variants (and someone may have found a fifth!)

I have solutions for the following issues now:

* Antenna penetrations to watchband
* Back case o-ring is too small to be effective
* Screw "washer/gaskets" are tiny and break apart
* SIM card flap / screws are leaky

I am still working on a set of very hard problems:

* Speaker grille is open to the air, no seals
* Watch buttons break easily
* Watch buttons have no silicone seal

From an engineering standpoint, these are hard things to retrofit if the designer didn't bother to try in the first place. However, I do see evidence on my recently shipped watch that some effort was spent on trying to seal things up. This gives me a bit of hope that I can finish the job right.

--Martin

lphovercraft · Apr 29, 2014

martinbogo1 said:
I am still working on a set of very hard problems:

* Speaker grille is open to the air, no seals
* Watch buttons break easily
* Watch buttons have no silicone seal

From an engineering standpoint, these are hard things to retrofit if the designer didn't bother to try in the first place. However, I do see evidence on my recently shipped watch that some effort was spent on trying to seal things up. This gives me a bit of hope that I can finish the job right.

--Martin

Any thoughts on this? I just received my unit and am going to work on getting the firmware/software/config up to date. I'm still in limbo on whether to flog this and just buy a Polar V800 or just bite the bullet and keep the device (and continue using my FT1/coded band while swimming). I'm not sure whether what you're considering is going to have direct impact on what I decide to do - but I thought I'd ping the thread to see if anything had developed since this last post. Thanks.

Lokifish Marz · Apr 29, 2014

Speaker fix
Mic fix
Button fix (needs to be sealed version)

Never got around to any of it

SparkyRih · Apr 29, 2014

How did the TS ever pass IP67 rating? Or did it never get it?

thermalboyz · Apr 29, 2014

probably used liquidpel (Nano Coating) for test device to get IP67.

Lokifish Marz · Apr 29, 2014

SparkyRih said:
How did the TS ever pass IP67 rating? Or did it never get it?

LLP sealed the all the holes then put it in a bucket with 15cm of water, no bands, no button, no PCB. Didn't leak so it must be IP67. So it wasn't tested as that does not meet IEC requirements for IP67.

lphovercraft · Apr 29, 2014

Lokifish Marz said:
LLP sealed the all the holes then put it in a bucket with 15cm of water, no bands, no button, no PCB. Didn't leak so it must be IP67. So it wasn't tested as that does not meet IEC requirements for IP67.

I would say "unbelievable" but actually - now - I totally believe that.

trent999 · Apr 29, 2014

LLPen did say the test was done by them, Omate, and that it involved only 15cm on water over the top of the device. They neglected the additional test requirement where the bottom of the device must have at least 1 meter of water over it as well. He did not say publicly that I saw anything about sealing up all the holes, but I think one would have had too to get the watch to survive even the 15cm test they claim to have performed successfully.

In other words, the whole claim of ip67 is based on an inadequate self-performed test that did not really test for ip67. Par for the course for Omate. The TrueSmart is not even vaguely ip67 water-resistant as many owners have already discovered. The cake is a lie.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

SparkyRih · Apr 29, 2014

Lokifish Marz said:
LLP sealed the all the holes then put it in a bucket with 15cm of water, no bands, no button, no PCB. Didn't leak so it must be IP67. So it wasn't tested as that does not meet IEC requirements for IP67.

LOL

No but seriously, you have to send your device to some lab to get that rating right? And the AW420 should also have IP67 as I recall... And I think that I read sometime during the KS project that there was Nano coating on the electronics.....

I was planning on testing the waterproofness with one of my units, but I've seen too many people that messed up their TS, so than it's not worth it...

---------- Post added at 09:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 PM ----------

trent999 said:
LLPen did say the test was done by them, Omate, and that it involved only 15cm on water over the top of the device. They neglected the additional test requirement where the bottom of the device must have at least 1 meter of water over it as well. He did not say publicly that I saw anything about sealing up all the holes, but I think one would have had too to get the watch to survive even the 15cm test they claim to have performed successfully.

In other words, the whole claim of ip67 is based on an inadequate self-performed test that did not really test for ip67. Par for the course for Omate. The TrueSmart is not even vaguely ip67 water-resistant as many owners have already discovered. The cake is a lie.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Do you think you can find that statement? Not that I don't believe you, it does sound plausible since the TS has never been proven to be IP67... Now that I think about it, if I would've manufactured an IP67 smartwatch a video of it being in water would be on the internet already (no, the guy in the swimming pool is wearing a dummy, don't fall for it!)

Lokifish Marz · Apr 29, 2014

Here ya go

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LaurentLePen/posts/2HykEjSvtFF

Oh yeah. He also did not not test any of the lower certifications either which if I understand the IEC documentation (yes I do have a copy of the official docs) correctly, is a requirement.

SparkyRih · Apr 29, 2014

Why am I laughing about something that isn't funny! Or is it? XD

I thought you were playing with me, but you were not! XD

Now I don't know what to say anymore... Now it's 100% clear to me that it's not water resistant...

trent999 · Apr 29, 2014

Sparky, I would be happy if mine could just survive being splashed repetitively while estuary kayaking. I'm not a swimmer, I mean not unless I fall out of my kayak.
Maybe if I can inject silicone around the buttons and somehow seal off the speaker grill (tape ?) it might survive such use ?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

SparkyRih · Apr 29, 2014

Yeah, I wasn't planning on swimming with it, even if it really had IP67 that wouldn't be a good idea, because of the added pressure of your arm movement it won't be IP67 compliant anymore...

But I expected it to survive rain, splashing of water at the pool/beach, or washing of hands and accidently pouring water over it, or if some other liquid pours over it like a glass of water...

But maybe it still can? I think the biggest issue is the pressure of the water, not really the leaking in right?

lphovercraft · May 3, 2014

SparkyRih said:
But maybe it still can? I think the biggest issue is the pressure of the water, not really the leaking in right?

Define pressure. Define leaking.

Next time you burn your hand in the kitchen and place it under the faucet to cool it off, I wonder if you're going to be doing differential equations in your head to determine if the covalent bond in the gap between the button and body of the watch holding it back versus the velocity of the cold water pressing through the gap. And of course, you're doing this while it feels like your hand is on fire.

Bottom line - if you're doing something where the integrity of the device is of more concern than the task you're undertaking, the device is wrong for the job. I'm not interested in an attention-grabbing tech accessory. I want a device I can forget about while I'm fighting for my last breath on the last stroke of my last lap on swim day.

*Benedetto* · May 4, 2014

Same issue on the Simvalley AW-420! Is it exactly the same version of the watch?

What about using silicone to get the IP67? I think the biggest problem will be the buttons on the right side

Lokifish Marz · May 4, 2014

In looking at the case and other aspects, if done right you could probably get about 3ATM out of it. Would take an "overhaul" but it could be done.

Hardware Hacking x201 : IP67 Compliance

Would you buy a kit to make your TrueSmart REALLY IP67 compliant?

Yes, I'd pay $15-25 for a self-installed kit.

Yes, I'd pay $25-50 for a pro-installed kit.

No, $25 is too much.

No, I'm not interested.

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