Originally Posted by freyberry

@jhanford and @ironic77

Developers are the people, who really keep the platform alive. Without them and their support, Microsoft can do nothing and WP7 is dead on arrival in the face of iPhone's 200000 apps.

They have every right to complain about the restrictions that Microsoft puts into place. They are the ones who will ultimately decide, whether WP7 will live or die and Microsoft better not upset them.

@freyberry

Grab your self a cold beer and watch atached pic please...

Originally Posted by vangrieg

My second concern is this move to syncing as opposed to copying files and playing them. If these are just empty worries, I'll be happy with whatever is built in for sure.

"Copying and Playing" implies access to the filesystem. In trying to look at things from a user perspective does a user really need access to the filesystem? I think it works well on the Zunes, especially if wireless syncing is enabled. I plug the Zune into the power adapter for charging and while it's at it the device jumps onto my wireless network and copies my new music from the PC. It's a smooth process.

Originally Posted by j2inet

"Copying and Playing" implies access to the filesystem. In trying to look at things from a user perspective does a user really need access to the filesystem?

Yes, definitely. Things get a lot easier. Without access to the file system, every application must include its own syncing method. For example, if you install an ebook reader, how do you get your ebook files onto the device without file system access? The ebook reader application can only access its own program folder, which means, the files have to be stored there and are inaccessible to other ebook reader applications (if you install another application, you have to sync your files *again*).
We can see from the iPhone what a big mess this is.

There must at least be access to a "Home" folder and the storage card, plus a file Explorer to open documents, music files etc. directly, instead of opening the application and having to wait for it to scan through the file system.

Originally Posted by j2inet

I plug the Zune into the power adapter for charging and while it's at it the device jumps onto my wireless network and copies my new music from the PC. It's a smooth process.

It's all cool and well until you want to copy something from another computer. At least iTunes makes it a real mess, don't know how Zune works.

Apart from this, freyberry has a point about other apps. Since no mobile device I know of has the capacity to play all existing formats, and there are ebooks apart from music, there's need for third-party apps, and interfaces such as Zune, iTunes or what not don't cater for that. Copying books to my wife's iPhone is a major PITA. She just can't do that herself, I had to setup an http server on my phone so that she could use my collection. It doesn't get any more messed up than this.

WM (or WP) is also a device that has MS Office, and I need an ability to quickly copy office files there. OK, they can give me a syncing app on my desktop, but what if I need something from someone else's PC/Mac/Linux machine?

Originally Posted by vangrieg

She just can't do that herself, I had to setup an http server on my phone so that she could use my collection. It doesn't get any more messed up than this.

Exactly. Syncing any kinds of files to and from the iPhone is a big mess and it's clearly a huge issue that we're talking about here.

Missing multitasking and native APIs are other huge issues.

Those are issues that have to be talked about.

If you don't care about being able to sync your files to your device without hassles, if you don't care about being able to have a GPS navigation app running in the background, so that you don't have to illegally handle your device in the car, if you don't care about all the great applications that are not possible without native APIs and multitasking - then just don't post here.

But there clearly are people, who care about those things. Would all the $%&/§ coming here with nothing to say except for "calm down" (without a reason to calm down) please shut up already and let those, who have a clue about developing and who care about those features, continue the discussion, that made a lot of sense before you came in?

Seriously, you call us devs "whiners", how ridiculous is that?! We are talking about HUGE issues here and all you have to say is "calm down", without contributing anything to the discussion, like for example actual reasons to calm down. Again, if you have nothing else to contribute, just shut up (@eounce @young blade and others).

WP7 is giving me a sinking feeling in my gut...

---

Hello All,

I can honestly say I've got mixed feelings about all this. After coding in linux for years, my first foray into embedded development was on Maemo after getting an n810. I was instantly hooked.

I originally bought a Windows Mobile phone because of the 'openness' of the platform and because of the excellent user communities, most prominently this one. I've been developing Winmo apps for 6 months now and currently have one pending certification in the marketplace. So here's my 2 cents-

1. The move to managed code/sandboxing makes sense for MS but doesn't really help us. Managed code is really easy to decompile. This may make it easier for MS to detect malware and backdoors in WP7 apps. But unless MS ships a REAL obfuscator with VS2010 all us developers are gonna get ripped off.
2. I personally will probably still develop for WP7 but the kinds of apps I'll develop will change. From what's been leaked so far, WP7 apps are gonna be heavy on the eye candy and light on functionality. Pretty much the opposite of Windows Mobile. Goodbye productivity/utility, hello fart noise apps and boobs that jiggle with the accelerometer.
3. MS can kiss the smartphone market goodbye. In emulating the iSuck development model MS is ceding the smartphone market to Android and Maemo. Neither platform is mature now. And Maemo hasn't even really hit the US yet. But the WP7/iPhone model seems to be 'Smart phones for stupid people'. Corporate/Enterprise users/developers are going to be forced to the more open platforms just to retain control of their data and communication. Microsoft knows this but doesn't care. They are after a larger market...
And no I didn't mention WebOS because it's not worth mentioning. (O.K. I did just mention it but only to say it wasn't worth mentioning.)

All things being equal, I am not giving up on WP7. But I am removing some eggs from the M$ basket. It's time to make a new friend of android and reacquaint myself with my old friend Maemo.

Cheers,
Charles

O.K. I'm done. Y'all can continue the bickering now.

Originally Posted by vangrieg

It's all cool and well until you want to copy something from another computer. At least iTunes makes it a real mess, don't know how Zune works.

Apart from this, freyberry has a point about other apps. Since no mobile device I know of has the capacity to play all existing formats, and there are ebooks apart from music, there's need for third-party apps, and interfaces such as Zune, iTunes or what not don't cater for that. Copying books to my wife's iPhone is a major PITA. She just can't do that herself, I had to setup an http server on my phone so that she could use my collection. It doesn't get any more messed up than this.

WM (or WP) is also a device that has MS Office, and I need an ability to quickly copy office files there. OK, they can give me a syncing app on my desktop, but what if I need something from someone else's PC/Mac/Linux machine?

There's lots of issues here and we just don't know how MS is going to handle this. I'm sure they've learned from Apple's mistakes (as they've pointed them out in the past).

The Zune software allows you to copy music to "guest" Zunes without issue really.

Microsoft confirmed that there will be storage cards. How could they not allow you to access the file system on a storage card? If nothing else, you could pop it out and stick it in a card reader and use the files. This is one area I'm not really concerned about.

So basically my thought is that apps won't have access to the device's file system but will have access to storage cards.

Damnit, why can't MIX just be here already.

Originally Posted by RustyGrom

The Zune software allows you to copy music to "guest" Zunes without issue really.

What matters is the opposite - accessing devices from PCs that don't have Zune software (that is, 99.99999999% of all existing PCs).

Originally Posted by RustyGrom

So basically my thought is that apps won't have access to the device's file system but will have access to storage cards.

Cool, but can the thing pick up and play music/videos I copy to this card?

Originally Posted by RustyGrom

Damnit, why can't MIX just be here already.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by vangrieg

What matters is the opposite - accessing devices from PCs that don't have Zune software (that is, 99.99999999% of all existing PCs).

Cool, but can the thing pick up and play music/videos I copy to this card?

Indeed.

I'm guessing that you'll be able to read/write data to your flash card just like you normally would. The Zune software will just help you manage media. Yes, they'll support playing music/videos off the flash card. That will be the primary (only?) storage location.

Also, everything will be "cloud" integrated. For example, office docs will be accessible directly from a Sharepoint server or your exchange server. There *should* be support for live drive, etc but who knows if they'll actually implement that.

Originally Posted by vangrieg

What matters is the opposite - accessing devices from PCs that don't have Zune software (that is, 99.99999999% of all existing PCs).

The same could have been said for iTunes when the iPod came out. It's now ubiquitous in the Apple device realm. Microsoft likely sees this as the same for Zune. If anything, Zune is superior to iTunes in a number of ways and makes for a consistent user experience when paired with the Win Phone.

It's not at all shabby in the music player department either.