Yeap it takes more than 1 year to change something so trivial.
I guess a major bug would take them 1000 years.
No worries, I'm sure Samsung GALAXY S 3000 would solve it.
Difficult to develop for GS4?
- Thread starter Piaband
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Yeap it takes more than 1 year to change something so trivial.
I guess a major bug would take them 1000 years.
No worries, I'm sure Samsung GALAXY S 3000 would solve it.
Yeap it takes more than 1 year to change something so trivial.
I guess a major bug would take them 1000 years.
No worries, I'm sure Samsung GALAXY S 3000 would solve it.
Not being familiar with that particular bug, I have no idea what actual impact it had (or if it was universal), so I'm not saying that it's "ok". My point was that most people are self centered and don't ever seem to think about how these things really work, they just expect results.
How many of the millions of people who owned the phone do you think were affected by this bug, and how badly do you believe it impacted their experience? I mean it sounds dumb, but even in a company with say only 500 employees just planning an IT meeting to discuss POSSIBLE changes to a website product can take quite a while. Then planning, testing, and etc... I don't even want to think about the nightmare of global rollouts on millions of flagship products in like 90 countries (with hardware variations and carrier specific differences).
In the end, this is still not an excuse, but reality is not as black and white as so many people would like it to be when they go pointing fingers.
Superbrick fiasco. If you factory-reset an ICS I9100 or N7000, you are at risk of permanently bricking your device, that applies to non-rooted and rooted devices so it affects the 40 million owners. I think it's a significant bug. Thank god they took less than one year to fix it and no that's not a compliment.
I spent hours reverse-engineering HTC and Samsung proprietary stuff to get CM to actually work as it should. Just because neither companies would bother publishing the relevant parts, or because they break the official AOSP (HTC's smile detection, for instance). So don't blame developers if they give up and switch to more friendly OEMs.
---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------
Wait, wat. Samsung hired Cyanogen. The guy who created CyanogenMod, you know. I think they had a purpose in mind, at the time. And if they lost their way, maybe we should move on as well. But so far, there is nothing that says CM will not work on the SGS4.
What about I9503 - SGS4 with Snapdragon 600 CPU? Due to more open CPU, this one should be easier to develop right? For same reason, US SGS3 get CM sooner than international SGS3. Do you think I9503 will get CM support?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Probably pretty decent support, notice the US versions have stable releases. If you are on the fence, buy something already supported.
Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
TeamHacksungs/CMs decision is the only way to go. If I were them, I'd cut support for each and every Samsung device immediately.
And I'm saying this as a fan of the Samsung hardware. There is still no match for the S2 regarding size/weight/performance as of now. And I guess the S4 will be the best device in its category as well (the Z's display is not that good even compared to the S3, let alone htc's new devices).
Finally let the user decide what's more important to him, CM awesomeness or Sammys incredible uglyness. Don't be forced to add a #blamesamsung hashtag to every second posting.
On the other hand, I do not understand the praises for Sony. The company that root-kitted our PCs and sued Playstation hackers out of development and almost to bankruptcy.
And I'm saying this as a fan of the Samsung hardware. There is still no match for the S2 regarding size/weight/performance as of now. And I guess the S4 will be the best device in its category as well (the Z's display is not that good even compared to the S3, let alone htc's new devices).
Finally let the user decide what's more important to him, CM awesomeness or Sammys incredible uglyness. Don't be forced to add a #blamesamsung hashtag to every second posting.
On the other hand, I do not understand the praises for Sony. The company that root-kitted our PCs and sued Playstation hackers out of development and almost to bankruptcy.
well they did get what they deserved a few years ago though didn't they...plus Playstation section different to there mobile counterpart...so yeah for developer support sony is the great at the moment..
as to HTC screen quality not up to the standard of S4 now that is debatable
They only got what they deserved from some nerds who understand what a rootkit is. They didn't get the appropriate fire for the geohot case, though.
Sony is every bit as evil as Samsung. The fact that you focus on good developer support for mobile devices does not make it any better (it's just practical and more comfortable for your conscience).
Sony is every bit as evil as Samsung. The fact that you focus on good developer support for mobile devices does not make it any better (it's just practical and more comfortable for your conscience).
at the end of the day everyone is in it for the money mate...no other way about it...
They're working as hard as they can to make up for the sins of the past. I think that Kaz Hirai has, unlike his predecessors, figured out that treating your customers like **** is bad for business.
I had serious concerns that the Sony Mobile guys would get shat on by the mothership as a result of all of the restructuring and reorganization at Sony, reducing their openness - but it seems like the opposite is happening. The Sony Mobile guys are getting MORE freedom to do what is right, not less.
For a good part of 2012 I had an inherent distrust of Sony, but it was impossible to ignore their constant positive contributions to AOSP and to the opensource community, at the same time Samsung was ****ting on the opensource community right and left.
Don't look back in anger, guys. Look what you, Daniel, Guillaume et al achieved. You got lots of love from the community and it will only get better from here
Once Samsung releases the source that the cousin roms will have all the features if you have the original apks.
garwynn
Retired Forum Mod / Inactive Recognized Developer
To Entropy and the rest of the guys at Team Hacksung...
Having working with Entropy during the past year on the eMMC bug I can completely understand your position. That doesn't even mention the issues with the RIL that I've had read about.
Sony has mentioned including CDMA in the future but I haven't seen it come to fruition yet. Odd in a country that widely uses WCDMA - but I am hoping should the Softbank deal for Sprint go through that it may quickly change that. Until that time I might as well stick with the best alternative and for me on Sprint that seems to remain Samsung. It's something that I have finally become more familiar with thanks to working on kernel development for the Epic 4G Touch and Galaxy Note 2 for Sprint. Now I'm looking to take the next step in my self-education.
While I won't burn an upgrade to buy a device for GS4 CM development due to owning a GN2 I have made a decision to make CM builds for the Sprint variant (SPH-L720) as it furthers my goals to go beyond kernels and into a new challenge and new lessons. I wish you the best on your current endeavours and hope you won't mind if I poke for advice once in a while.... like a PM I sent to Andrei and Entropy yesterday after stumping Chainfire.
I always use Samsung based ROMs when I can, just because everything works. I don't need AOSP, I don't need CM, I don't need AOKP. All I need is a themed ROM close to stock, but without any Touchwiz. I love Samsung's special features, like smart stay, and I can't get those on other ROMs. I stick with Samsung for removable batteries, great hardware and software, and expandable storage.
Wow I have never seen such fanboys on both ends lol. In the end it is what works for each of you. Just keep a few things in mind. 1. This is a development forum. That is all that matters to most here. This is what XDA is all about. We are not a rom forum nor a make my phone cool forum. Some seem to have lost site of that. 2. If Samsung decides they wanted to be a real pain there would be no custom roms based off of stock roms. They could easily put a stop to all of them and void every warranty for devices running them.
So use what works for you. If you like TW cool, if you like AOSP cool. Either way it is a personal call and no need to justify it to each other. While I agree that Samsung is biting the hands that made them who they are, but that is not surprising. They are a typical company. They care nothing for the little guy and only care for money.
So while i am a great fan of debates lets keep it civil.
Wayne Tech S-III
So use what works for you. If you like TW cool, if you like AOSP cool. Either way it is a personal call and no need to justify it to each other. While I agree that Samsung is biting the hands that made them who they are, but that is not surprising. They are a typical company. They care nothing for the little guy and only care for money.
So while i am a great fan of debates lets keep it civil.
Wayne Tech S-III
Ubuntu Phone/Touch
I would not have even noticed this thread if I hadn't been searching Google for any indications of Ubuntu Touch development for my new AT&T S4. I found a post fearing that Ubuntu Touch support may not come to the S4 due to the lack of CM 10.1 support, (that sited this thread,) but this is clearly not the case. I have already tested the jflteatt build. Back to the grind I guess... I will likely find something adventually.
I am more concerned about kernel module/Touchwiz integration of the IR blaster being opened up than any of this drama. My opinion: AOSP can and will likely find a way around this crap adventually. What does everyone else think?
I would not have even noticed this thread if I hadn't been searching Google for any indications of Ubuntu Touch development for my new AT&T S4. I found a post fearing that Ubuntu Touch support may not come to the S4 due to the lack of CM 10.1 support, (that sited this thread,) but this is clearly not the case. I have already tested the jflteatt build. Back to the grind I guess... I will likely find something adventually.
I am more concerned about kernel module/Touchwiz integration of the IR blaster being opened up than any of this drama. My opinion: AOSP can and will likely find a way around this crap adventually. What does everyone else think?
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101Nobody at team hacksung (the team behind galaxy s2, note, s3, note2, gtabs... official CM ports) plans to buy it, neither develop for it. There are two variants which will be a pain to maintain, the bugs we have on the s3 will probably be there on s4 too (camera), and we all know Samsung ability to release sources while staying in line with mainline. Yes qualcomm release sources, but exynos sources we had were far from actual galaxy products. I'm pretty sure the same will happen for this one.
That's a uniform "no" from us (hacksung).
EDIT: Don't get me wrong. There has been a huge flood of messages around the web about the support of CM and the SGS4. What I wrote above is JUST from my/hacksung opinion. CyanogenMod is a big organization with hundreds of contributors around the world. Even if me/codeworkx/entropy/... won't develop for it, other people can go ahead and do it. It's not the CyanogenMod project that decided that 'no' I expressed.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app31
Most experienced developers are leaving Samsung for manufacturers that don't treat them like **** (see the Superbrick fiasco), leaving only the "me-too" smali-hack-kangs and a very small number of experienced competent developers like Andrei.
Quality, not quantity - most of the stuff in the I9100 and I9300 forums is crap, people who took a Touchwizz base, themed it, made some build.prop hacks, and called it a whole new firmware package. They're lucky in that Touchwizz is so bad that it's easy to improve upon it.
Compare to, for example, the Xperia T where there are 5-10 or more developers all contributing as a team to something that only has two threads (One for CM10, one for CM10.1) There aren't many people working with Sony stock firmwares because, honestly, it's REALLY hard to improve upon them because they're so good to begin with. Most of the few things that can be improved are achievable with simple TiBu freezes, no smali hacking required.15
They publicized their donation of three devices to the CM team VERY heavily.
They promised they were "working hard" on Superbrick, and threw a grenade in our faces with XWLPM a month later with no warning.
They promised to release updated platform reference source for Exynos4 - and regurgitated the same almost-a-year-out-of-date crap (it's now on the order of 1 year 3 months outdated) that was an issue in the first place. Their BABBQ promise was clearly just a stunt to sell more Note2 units.
They lie on a regular basis... They say they care about the community to sell more devices, but their actions are the exact opposite of their words.
Yup. The only manufacturer who has donated FEWER devices to CM maintainers than Samsung is HTC and maybe Motorola.
Jerpelea has more Sony devices than he has the time to support. (For various reasons, Sony asks that these donations don't get publicized too much). Arcee has received every LG device marketed in Europe to my knowledge (again, that's kept semi-quiet, partly because manufacturers don't want users to go out and buy a device then get disappointed if the CM bringup falters for whatever reason.)11
Let's say it's May. Android 5.0 came by in Google I/O.
6 months later, you're still on 4.2.2 because Samsung still hasn't updated their phones and sources.
Okay there might be AOSP-based ROMs a week later.
But none of them is fully working because the drivers from 4.2.2 is no longer working in 5.0
You're telling me you won't get mad?
What if Google came out with some super cool feature.
Last year was Project Butter & Google Now.
You're still telling me you won't get mad?
If you say Samsung don't care, why should we care about them then?
We're XDA because we develop amazing custom ROMs, not some themed **** with extra apps preloaded together with some build.prop edits7
Actually, we've tried to feed bugfixes back to Samsung for improvement, but they just sit and let things be broken for months on end. This is where a lot of our frustration comes from - we've tried as hard as we can to work WITH Samsung, and they treat their customers like crap. They absolutely refuse to take responsibility for any bug that gets discovered.
Look at the MAX17042 fuel_alerted wakelock bug - Discovered in October 2011, reported multiple times back to Samsung (and the fix was literally ONE CHARACTER, replacing an == with >= in a comparison), and it didn't get fixed until January 2013.
Compared to Sony, who have actively worked with developers here in terms of investigating bugs that are found. MANY of the issues we raised with ICS on the Xperia T were solved in Jellybean.
He's working for Samsung USA... He pretty much stays out of it. He's in a very tough position due to working for Samsung... He's stuck between us and the Koreans.
There are a number of people at Samsung USA that care and want things to change, but upper management in Korea is 100% uncooperative.
