[CONCEPT] The NAK Thread ...

Step666 · Mar 1, 2011

Amon Darthir said:
Just use the bluetooth if your that worried.

Which sums up my point - if you have to fall back on pre-existing methods of doing things, it shows up the cartridge idea for what it really is, a novelty.

Amon Darthir said:
His point is you don't have to buy a 64GB cartridge or a 1.5 GHz housing. You can get a 8GB cartridge and a 512MHz housing. You can get what you want.

And you don't have to buy a Galaxy S or a Motorola Atrix, there are plenty of Android phones with a variety of specs already.
Yet the guy I was replying to implied that the cartridge system would somehow offer more choice than is currently available, which is simply not true. It would just change what it is you're making a choice about.

Amon Darthir said:
Did he say new cartridge? No. He didn't.

He said:

sbryan12144 said:
Also if new updates come out from the developer (like transitioning from Android 2.2 to 2.3 or Windows Phone 7), updating the phone would be simple and easy. Buy the piece and plop it in the device.

Next time try reading before commenting.

Also, as we will come to later, you seem to have no idea where the CPU is supposed to go in this design - the housing is just a screen.
Replacing the OS (ie the internal memory) means changing the CPU as well.

Amon Darthir said:
Hahahaha. Your funny. Not. The cartridge would be just like a hard drive in your computer. The OS is on the hard drive. Not on your CPU. If you had a recovery image or something like BIOS on the CPU of your new housing, then it searches for the OS on the hard drive and boots up. Pretty feasible in my opinion.

Oh my God, I never knew that, because I'm a moron(!)

Have you actually read the first post? The cartridge isn't a hard drive, it's everything - it's your CPU/GPU, storage memory, camera, battery in a single enclosed piece.
It's not modular, you can't change the CPU and keep everything else the same. If you actually look at the design in the first post, you can't replace one part of the internals without replacing all the rest of it.

As for your opinion, well I shan't comment on that.

Amon Darthir said:
I know personally as an entrepreneur I'm ready to run with this idea.

And I'm Sean Connery.

NB: to the OP; I don't mean to insult or upset you in any way, your design is nicely rendered and shows a level of imagination that a lot of current mobile phone designs lack.

My last couple of posts are not directed at you but are instead meant as a response to the people making ridiculous comments about how HTC should start making this phone tomorrow.
Because, as good a concept as your design is, it has a great many practical issues that none of these other posters seem to have stopped to think about.

elmanortega · Mar 1, 2011

And I'm Sean Connery.

jajajajahahahahajajaja nice to meet you im Venicio Del Toro

sbryan12144 · Mar 1, 2011

Step666 said:
My last couple of posts are not directed at you but are instead meant as a response to the people making ridiculous comments about how HTC should start making this phone tomorrow.
Because, as good a concept as your design is, it has a great many practical issues that none of these other posters seem to have stopped to think about.

? By any means, I never thought this idea would be "doable", I just like the idea in general. Many people don't think outside of the box like this because if they did, there would be no need to brainstorm about new ideas. Look, there are many things that have seemed like a good idea at the time but didn't work out in the long run. Even if this idea will or will not be used, people are still watching. Taking great ideas like this and forming them into something we can use in our everyday lives. I do understand how you feel about the concept. If you think so low of it, then make something better.

Amon Darthir · Mar 1, 2011

sbryan12144 said:
? By any means, I never thought this idea would be "doable", I just like the idea in general. Many people don't think outside of the box like this because if they did, there would be no need to brainstorm about new ideas. Look, there are many things that have seemed like a good idea at the time but didn't work out in the long run. Even if this idea will or will not be used, people are still watching. Taking great ideas like this and forming them into something we can use in our everyday lives. I do understand how you feel about the concept. If you think so low of it, then make something better.

Amen to that. Thank you. And to the person your responding to, dude, concepts are just that. A concept. Things change through development. With your line of thinking the screen couldn't even change like the idea says. Look at your computer. You can change the video card, the sound card, add CD drives. You're just applying that idea to a phone. You can put your hard drive in a different computer with a different CPU, AND IT WORKS. Its totally doable.

Its an idea to be developed on. Thanks for giving those of us who would like to scenarios to consider in development.

Sent from my GSBv1.7-ERIS using XDA App

psikopathe · Mar 1, 2011

Step666 said:
NB: to the OP; I don't mean to insult or upset you in any way ...

No problem, it's good to have different points of view about what I create, and by posting my work I agreed with the fact that sometime people could find something "bad" in my concepts. Anyway I will continue in this way ...

psikopathe · Mar 3, 2011

And what about the second part of this concept (the tablet - see post #2) ?...

Amon Darthir · Mar 3, 2011

psikopathe said:
And what about the second part of this concept (the tablet - see post #2) ?...

I just came back to show to a friend and noticed that. Very nice. I didn't even think of being able to insert it into a tablet. Thats very cool. I love the look. Everything looks so smooth and new. I just wish something like this was available.

Step666 · Mar 3, 2011

One small point.
And I'm not being negative for negative's sake.
But what happens if you receive a call and the cartridge is in the tablet?

That was the reason I decided against the Galaxy Tab, because trying to make a call on a tablet is really not convenient.

Amon Darthir · Mar 3, 2011

Step666 said:
One small point.
And I'm not being negative for negative's sake.
But what happens if you receive a call and the cartridge is in the tablet?

That was the reason I decided against the Galaxy Tab, because trying to make a call on a tablet is really not convenient.

Thats actually the same thought that occurred to me as I thought about your idea. As I've muled this over, (because I would really like it to be modular, but if not then o well) basically you would need to have an app just for handling device changes. So long as you had the phone jacket/sleeve right by you, you could answer the call on your tablet, ask your caller to wait for a second, pull the cartridge and slide it into your phone and resume the call.

That all assuming that your CPU, RAM, Antennae and battery are all a part of the cartridge. So basically it would temporarily become a phone without a screen. That or you hope you've got a headset handy.

Don't worry about being negative. These are all things that would need to be thought of and addressed. Its better to think of problems before something is made and fix them than to release something and find out that you have a bunch of holes that need filling.

elmanortega · Mar 4, 2011

psikopathe said:
Hi, here is the second part of my HTC TUBE Concept ...

i do love your concepts but i do think that what we need is a credit card size sim that can holds all our info, all our updates etc, and we need an easy way to swap the sim from one device to the other.
os will recognize the sim and update all our info and done the sim can hold all the settings for the devices, so you can just insert and go.

it was easy to just insert the sim on the side of the device but now you have to take the cover off the battery out, too much.

must of us have more than one device.

can you, i know you dont like the idea but can you make my dream come true?
just one little concept.

thanks

Step666 · Mar 4, 2011

elmanortega said:
i do love your concepts but i do think that what we need is a credit card size sim that can holds all our info, all our updates etc, and we need an easy way to swap the sim from one device to the other.

SIM cards are credit card sized. What most people refer to as a SIM card is technically a mini SIM, which is why the yet-smaller size that the iPhone4 and iPad use is referred to as a micro SIM and not merely a mini SIM.
And there's a reason why we have moved away from the original full-sized SIM cards, because they're unnecessarily large.

If you force manufacturers to have to fit something that big into their phones, you limit their design options. Most modern phones couldn't accommodate something that big, most batteries don't have a footprint that large.
You say that most of us have more than one device - if that's the case then you need something universal and that's what (mini) SIMs and microSD cards are.

Also, when a microSD card can hold 32GB, why on earth would you possibly need your SIM card to be as large as a credit card?
Even if it were the size of a standard SD card, that gives you 128GB nowadays and the SDXC standard has a theoretical maximum, so we can expect to see ever-larger SD cards in the future, no need for anything physically bigger.

elmanortega · Mar 4, 2011

Step666 said:
SIM cards are credit card sized. What most people refer to as a SIM card is technically a mini SIM, which is why the yet-smaller size that the iPhone4 and iPad use is referred to as a micro SIM and not merely a mini SIM.
And there's a reason why we have moved away from the original full-sized SIM cards, because they're unnecessarily large.

If you force manufacturers to have to fit something that big into their phones, you limit their design options. Most modern phones couldn't accommodate something that big, most batteries don't have a footprint that large.
You say that most of us have more than one device - if that's the case then you need something universal and that's what (mini) SIMs and microSD cards are.

Also, when a microSD card can hold 32GB, why on earth would you possibly need your SIM card to be as large as a credit card?
Even if it were the size of a standard SD card, that gives you 128GB nowadays and the SDXC standard has a theoretical maximum, so we can expect to see ever-larger SD cards in the future, no need for anything physically bigger.

yes you are totally rigth, completely

is there a way to put all your info and settings into the sim?
that would be great
i just want an easy way to swap the sim and the info from one device to the other.
maybe a more advance sim not smaller regular size i think is fine but more advance sim card is the answer and a easier way to swap it.

what you think?

Step666 · Mar 4, 2011

There's a reason they can't back up all your settings, data etc and that's because they need to be universally compatible. SIM cards need to be able to work in any phone from a Nokia 1100 right through to a Galaxy S2.
That's why we have separate memory cards, because SIM cards simply cannot fill the role you're asking them to.

As for backing up settings/preferences etc, that's a matter for the people developing/coding the OS, it would be entirely possible for Google to make it so that all your Android settings could be backed up with a single press of a button but they've chosen not to.
Probably all the various custom UIs have something to do with it, also the general fragmentation of the platform and the risk that if you backed up settings from a 2.3 handset and tried to restore them to a 2.1 handset, you'd have problems.

But as I say, that would be something you'd need to speak to Google about.

elmanortega · Mar 4, 2011

Step666 said:
There's a reason they can't back up all your settings, data etc and that's because they need to be universally compatible. SIM cards need to be able to work in any phone from a Nokia 1100 right through to a Galaxy S2.
That's why we have separate memory cards, because SIM cards simply cannot fill the role you're asking them to.

As for backing up settings/preferences etc, that's a matter for the people developing/coding the OS, it would be entirely possible for Google to make it so that all your Android settings could be backed up with a single press of a button but they've chosen not to.
Probably all the various custom UIs have something to do with it, also the general fragmentation of the platform and the risk that if you backed up settings from a 2.3 handset and tried to restore them to a 2.1 handset, you'd have problems.

But as I say, that would be something you'd need to speak to Google about.

well yes but, rith now there are many devices and most people have at least two one for everyday use and one for outdoors or going out or whatever, some of us have more than one, and i have to set everything up all the time and updating etc
for me it would be nice like you say that google or microsoft keep my settings so when i turn on the device all gets updated instantly but they would have access to all my info.
i dont know its hard to see whats comming or how they plan to make our life {"easier"} in 20 years this is going to sound stupid but i think whts coming?

people asking for 14mp camera and you cant send photos this big via internet is you dont have2mb speed.
high def video
3d devices
its getting a little crazy

but the idea that i like is that, would be nice to be able to build your cellphone just the way you build a car

to be able to order your phone with the things you like internal and external.

Step666 · Mar 4, 2011

elmanortega said:
but the idea that i like is that, would be nice to be able to build your cellphone just the way you build a car

to be able to order your phone with the things you like internal and external.

The problem with that it takes a lot of work to make everything fit into a phone's body.

You have antenna designs to worry about, shielding, interference, heat dissipation.
As soon as you start letting people change the components, all that goes out the window.

So unless the company in question were to put as much R&D work in for every possible configuration someone could order as they currently do for each individual model they sell (and thus drastically increasing the costs involved), it just couldn't be done.
And, as I say, if they were to do that the costs involved would be so huge that they'd probably have to charge through the nose for each individual handset they sold.

Obviously, not every component would have an affect if changed - doubling the amount of internal memory would probably be doable without causing problems.
However even increasing the number of megapixels for the camera could require a physically larger camera unit, thus requiring the layout or even the size of the main circuit board to be adapted.

So you can start to appreciate why it's not a simple proposition...

Amon Darthir · Mar 4, 2011

Step666 said:
The problem with that it takes a lot of work to make everything fit into a phone's body.

You have antenna designs to worry about, shielding, interference, heat dissipation.
As soon as you start letting people change the components, all that goes out the window.

So unless the company in question were to put as much R&D work in for every possible configuration someone could order as they currently do for each individual model they sell (and thus drastically increasing the costs involved), it just couldn't be done.
And, as I say, if they were to do that the costs involved would be so huge that they'd probably have to charge through the nose for each individual handset they sold.

Obviously, not every component would have an affect if changed - doubling the amount of internal memory would probably be doable without causing problems.
However even increasing the number of megapixels for the camera could require a physically larger camera unit, thus requiring the layout or even the size of the main circuit board to be adapted.

So you can start to appreciate why it's not a simple proposition...

This is how you would do the camera on a device like this. CAMERA
Keeps it small and allows for pretty good resolution.

It seems like you have quite a bit of experience with this stuff. What do you think of making it modular? Like if there was a way that you could easily upgrade RAM, camera, etc.? Could it be done? Even if it would be a pain.

Step666 · Mar 4, 2011

Amon Darthir said:
This is how you would do the camera on a device like this. CAMERA
Keeps it small and allows for pretty good resolution.

The potential problem with that is that the smaller the sensor/pixel area, the less light hits it and the more you have to amplify the signal to get something usable and that's when you get noise and other such distortion.

Obviously, without seeing samples it's impossible to say whether that issue would affect that type of camera as much as normal ones but I'd imagine it would - the sensors still need light to hit them to work...

Amon Darthir said:
It seems like you have quite a bit of experience with this stuff. What do you think of making it modular? Like if there was a way that you could easily upgrade RAM, camera, etc.? Could it be done? Even if it would be a pain.

I'm the guy you were debating with a couple of pages ago, so I think my views on the modularity aspect are fairly clear.

The concept at the start of the thread whilst imaginative doesn't strike me as being viable.

Looking purely at the point of view of the cartridge being switched between different phones, the advantages are so slight and would appeal to such a small number of people that I can't see any manufacturer ever using it, not to mention potential issues along the lines of the ones I highlighted in my last post (antenna design, heat dissipation etc).
As for putting the cartridge into larger devices, I can't see the CPU etc working as well as if it was designed to fit the larger body and make proper use of the additional space that would be available.

As for the more modular idea you're talking about where individual components could be swapped out, that's a non-starter.

From a technical stand-point, the components would be so small/fiddly that there'd be a serious danger of people damaging them or the phone itself and then there's a liability issue.
Then you have the issue of drivers - in the likes of Android they're embedded into the ROM as opposed to being installed separately, so there'd be potential problems if you changed the GPU and didn't have the correct drivers available.

Not to mention, if you look at desktop computers, it's a relative minority that build their own or fiddle around with them.
When you get to laptops, it's a yet smaller minority because of the relative complexity caused by the space limitations and specialised components.
That would be even more pronounced an issue with something as small as a mobile phone.

These are just a selection of potential pit-falls off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty of others I couldn't even begin to think of.

The idea of collectively designing concepts is fine, if a little pointless but I think when you do it, you need to remember that there's a reason why phones are the way they are - they're designed taking into account all sorts of issues you and I wouldn't think twice about.

Amon Darthir · Mar 4, 2011

Quite true. It is nice to see what people come up with though. At the least the look of the phone is amazing. If it was just that I would still want it. Its just a beautiful design. But I can see what you're saying.

psikopathe · Apr 21, 2011

I'm back with the third part of this concept (the laptop - see post #3), All your comments are welcome ...

shysoul64 · Apr 21, 2011

great thinking
appreciate it

[CONCEPT] The NAK Thread ...

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